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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
4505
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Also, Grenades will be factored into the Fitting bonus for Assaults, currently Light Weapons and Sidearms only.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Killer's Coys
Prima Gallicus
44
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Posted - 2014.07.18 22:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Also, Grenades will be factored into the Fitting bonus for Assaults, currently Light Weapons and Sidearms only.
And for bonus on the suit ? Is it possible ? |
Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
744
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Please, when theorycrafting, whether to prove the Sentinels are now broken or still OP, or the vice versa for Assault, provide links to protofits. We will not be able to keep up testing them.
Much appreciated
Erm... that would require protofits to be updated with new slot layout and capacity changes. Or am I missing something?
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
744
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:16:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Also, Grenades will be factored into the Fitting bonus for Assaults, currently Light Weapons and Sidearms only.
I really really like this idea. Powerful grenades play an important role in PC and could really help assaults carve out their role. 5% per level to fitting would probably suffice.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
4508
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Posted - 2014.07.18 23:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Please, when theorycrafting, whether to prove the Sentinels are now broken or still OP, or the vice versa for Assault, provide links to protofits. We will not be able to keep up testing them.
Much appreciated Erm... that would require protofits to be updated with new slot layout and capacity changes. Or am I missing something?
Not slot layout as stipulated in the OP. If you make them manually, yes they will be over in protofits but just compare them to the numbers in the spreadsheet.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11118
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
I have to ask - Why does the Amarr get a fitting increase?
It's really only the Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar Assaults who suffered from poor fitting, the Amarr only suffered from lacking a slot, which they now have had given to them.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11118
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:18:00 -
[67] - Quote
I believe Caldari PG should stay the same (or even lower) and instead increase their CPU more. Really it's always the CPU I lack. That 85PG isn't going to be used up anytime soon unless I run triple kin cats or something.
With the Gallente Assault I'm not sure, gonna have to do some testing in proto fits.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11118
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5565
Here's an example. As you can see, despite everything (with the exception of the nanohive) being prototype, I still don't lack powergrid, only CPU.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11118
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
I think the Amarr Assault should remain as is, and the rest of the Assaults should be brought up to par in terms of CPU/PG.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11120
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed. 1 PG != 1 CPU
A better comparison would be: 1 PG = 5 CPU
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Killer's Coys
Prima Gallicus
44
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Posted - 2014.07.19 01:03:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed. 1 PG != 1 CPU
A better comparison would be: 1 PG = 5 CPU
Not for everything... For Caldari yes, 5CPU = 1PG But for Gallente, 1CPU = 1PG I think
But, at the end, we al see Caldari hasn't enought CPU
For Assault Caldari buff !
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11121
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Posted - 2014.07.19 01:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Killer's Coys wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed. 1 PG != 1 CPU
A better comparison would be: 1 PG = 5 CPU Not for everything... For Caldari yes, 5CPU = 1PG But for Gallente, 1CPU = 1PG I think But, at the end, we al see Caldari hasn't enought CPU I reached 1PG = 5 CPU by dividing CPU by PG on the Amarr Assault.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11121
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Posted - 2014.07.19 01:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing
The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff. Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault.
From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
1544
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Posted - 2014.07.19 01:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
So, does the sentinel's new bonus replace any of the others? As much as I dislike the fat bastards, I feel that the racial bonus was a good way to do things, despite it being a bit OP. Perhaps reducing it to 2-3%?
Also thanks for the PG Rattati!!!
I think all OG minja's out there will join me in collectively saying so
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
1549
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Posted - 2014.07.19 01:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Agreed. Also matches the slot layout and modules that should be being fit in those slots
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
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Khemlar Maktaar
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
35
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Posted - 2014.07.19 02:35:00 -
[76] - Quote
BTW you just solidified the death of minmitar heavy it was already unplayable at std and barely at adv now even proto will be crap and its base stats(shield recharge and delay are still crap) so yeh my fav heavy is now dead u cannot fit enough hp on it to live long enough to make anything happen right now and with those nerfs fitting a kincat will be impossible without gimping ur fit so hard |
The Eristic
Dust 90210
573
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Posted - 2014.07.19 03:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
Agree with the above. Min Sentinel does not need any kind of nerf, ESPECIALLY not a PG reduction. The basic suit will be pretty much unfittable in any reasonable way. If anything, it needs a buff, though not necessarily to its current resources. They're ok where they are.
The Min Scout PG buff needs another 1-2, as well, unless KCs and Knives are going to have their PG slashed.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2111
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Posted - 2014.07.19 03:49:00 -
[78] - Quote
You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits.
Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to.
Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU
Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized.
Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy).
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11131
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Posted - 2014.07.19 03:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
67
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Posted - 2014.07.19 04:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:Agree with the above. Min Sentinel does not need any kind of nerf, ESPECIALLY not a PG reduction. The basic suit will be pretty much unfittable in any reasonable way. If anything, it needs a buff, though not necessarily to its current resources. They're ok where they are.
The Min Scout PG buff needs another 1-2, as well, unless KCs and Knives are going to have their PG "slashed." Even though I don't use them, yea min scout needs more pg.
Max level brony.
My special magic is trolling.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
3815
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Posted - 2014.07.19 04:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Overall I like the changes with the caveat I haven't really run any numbers myself. LOVE the way you are "encouraging" sentinels to use heavy weapons. Genius!
I just want to point out to the people locked in the never-ending shield vs armor debate that it's honestly more than a little disingenuous to use "you can get 100 reps/s with a logi" as a reason to massively buff shield regen. It's a whole other player, not a module! You shoudn't be able to approximate the same regen with any number of mods or fitting power increase, because you aren't two people. (This is not to say that I think that shields and armor are balanced, but lets try to compare apples to apples here!)
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2111
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Posted - 2014.07.19 04:20:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU. Are you blind? I mentioned that laser rifles have highest CPU requirements. My advanced LR has almost as much CPU draw as a proto combat rifle (74 vs 78 iirc).
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11132
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Posted - 2014.07.19 04:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU. Are you blind? I mentioned that laser rifles have highest CPU requirements. My advanced LR has almost as much CPU draw as a proto combat rifle (74 vs 78 iirc). Umm, it costs 92CPU/10PG at proto My Duvolle costs 90CPU/13PG
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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RedBleach LeSanglant
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
634
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Posted - 2014.07.19 04:46:00 -
[84] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy).
Amarr Equipment too - the Uplinks are resource intensive as well.
The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
11133
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Posted - 2014.07.19 05:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). Amarr Equipment too - the Uplinks are resource intensive as well. That's a logi concern.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
747
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Posted - 2014.07.19 06:51:00 -
[86] - Quote
Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
68
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Posted - 2014.07.19 07:18:00 -
[87] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. And the cal assault cpu is much better.
Max level brony.
My special magic is trolling.
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Boot Booter
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
748
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Posted - 2014.07.19 08:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
JRleo jr wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. And the cal assault cpu is much better.
haha true.
What happened to the repair tool glow?
Why won't CCP answer?
Conspiracy?
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JRleo jr
Xer Cloud Consortium
69
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Posted - 2014.07.19 08:41:00 -
[89] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:JRleo jr wrote:Boot Booter wrote:Well it does kinda make more sense for both fitting styles and balance reasons. And the cal assault cpu is much better. haha true. They should do that, 390 cpu seems good enough with a 5/2 layout.
Max level brony.
My special magic is trolling.
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Killer's Coys
Prima Gallicus
44
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Posted - 2014.07.19 08:50:00 -
[90] - Quote
TOTALY agree with you ! Hope CCP will make the same
Harpyja wrote: Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU
As I see, Amarr has the bigest PG (with Minmatar) but not the bigest CPU... (and less than the Minma) => you want to balance, I think this spreadsheet is correct, but, yes, maybe more PG/CPU for Amarr. => RR takes also a lot of PG/CPU and we (Caldari) have less PG/CPU than Amarr...
For Assault Caldari buff !
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