I had no idea you could do that, thanks for the assistance, much appreciated.

Yeah, as a principle I believe that if you have the appropriate CPU and PG skills maxed you should never need a CPU or PG module to make a race/role appropriate fit. If you do, then the suit does not have a high enough capacity.

CPU and PG modules are for when you donGÇÖt have all your skills levelled or you are trying something very none standard.

http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5599

As you can see, the powergrid on the Caldari Assault is pretty much wasted.
Even if I fit a prototype sidearm, grenade and equipment, I'm pretty sure I still won't be able to fill the PG on the Cal Assault.

With a 5/2 slot layout this will become even worse.

I built a protofits Caldari assault with maxed skills and here is the best i can do WITHOUT A CPU CHIP

1 x complex shield energizer
3 x complex shield extenders

1 x proto assault rifle
1 x advanced sub machine gun
1 x basic nanohive
1x standard grenade m1 locus

1x complex shield regulator
2x EMPTY LOW SLOTS!!

413/416 cpu
54/85 pg soooo much pg why no cpu? Shield suits need cpu not pg.

So if I throw a cpu chip in I can upgrade but again, why is cpu chip a necessity for a player that has MAXED every core and weapon skill? this is with a basic nanohive, a standard grenade, a standard sidearm and 2 empty low slots.

Its not like I am even trying to put a proto module in every slot. and yes this is using the hotfix charlie protofit.

Putting all proto modules in every slot brings the suit up to 545/416 cpu with 80/85 pg used WITH ALL SKILLS MAXED

129 cpu short of creating an all proto shield based caldari suit with no cpu chip.

So that suit must either add a chip and lose a low slot
or
Drop grenades, nanohives and run a standard sidearm
or
run a bunch of advanced gear in the slots. You really can't do that on a shield suit as you need the recharge rate. And is this really what new players should be striving for? investing tons of sp into a suit so they can fill it with advanced modules and still get smashed by an armor stacked assault pushing straight at you?

On protofits i can allready see the new sentinels however the fitting bonus for HMG's is not displayed there yet. I have massive issues fitting a proto CK.0 sentinel. CPU is a huge issue on that cause all shield modules require tons of CPU. I cant have a 2 complex shield extenders and 2 complex rechargers/energizers at the same time with a boundless HMG. I either have to dowgrade the shield modules or go down a tier. And now i compare it to the other heavys that are getting "nerfed":

Ak.0 sentinel:
-2 complex damage mods
-3complex plates
-boundless HMG
-Ishukone assault SMG
-c-7 flux

as you can see even with the CPU+PG nerf i can go full proto without any problems. So lets have a look at the gallente sentinel:

GK.0sentinel:
-1 complex damage mod
-4 complex plates
-boundless HMG
-Ishukone assault SMG
-c-7 flux

Same thing like with the amarr. It can go full proto without going over its fitting limitations. So now lets have a look how badly i can only fit the CK.0 sentinel:

-1 complex shield energizer
-1 complex shield recharger
-1 complex shield extender
-1 enhanced shield extender
- 1 complex shield regulator
-MH-82 HMG
-Toxin SMG (standard!)
-flux grenade (again standard)

So some 1 explain me please where the heavy nerf is apart for the caldari sentinel which gets allready mowed down by gallente and amarr sentinels which can stack plates? Compared to the other sentinels the caldari has to make drawbacks on its tank and all of its weapons. This is just not fair. Shield heavys cannot be supported with repair tools to gain their shields back and now you even make their lifes harder.

The community is not complaining about the caldari sentinels, its the armor sentinels in squads that are receiving logi support to make usage of their plate stacking abilitys.

Please take a look at these two charlie assault fits.

Gallente assault

Caldari assault

I have tied to make two equivalent fittings with similar level mods, weapons and equipment. I have also tried to make decent fits that fit the vision of each suit.

Each suit has all proto mods except one which is advanced. Each has a proto light weapon, an advanced sidearm and an advanced nanohive.

Yes I have gone with ferroscale on the Gallente suit which has lower fitting costs, however to balance this the Caldari suit has a cardiac regulator which is possibly the module with the lowest CPU cost other than a CPU enhancer. I like to think the Gallente would appreciate the speed of ferroscale plates and the Caldari would enjoy the stamina to enable wide flanking to make full use of the rail rifles long range.

As you can see the Caldari suit is 51 CPU over and 18 PG under, whereas the Gallente suit fills up it's resources quite nicely.

Hopefully this illustrates the Caldari fitting issue quite nicely. It appears you could comfortably give the Caldari suit an extra 50-55 CPU at the cost of 11 PG (assuming an approximate 5cpu to 1pg ratio) or more.

Would it be a problem if Caldari suits were CPU heavy? I know rail weapons are PG heavy but it hardly seems to matter compared to shield CPU usage. What about the scout suit? Caldari scouts are light on CPU like other Caldari suits, but it is rarely a problem for them as they have no need to fit CPU guzzling recharges/energizers.

edit: looking at Caldari scout fittings there appears to be room to adjust the CPU/PG balance in favor of CPU without messing anything up. I recommend a less extreme change than the one I proposed for the assault. I haven't looked at heavies but it seems they are the same as assaults with the need to fit rechargers. I would assume that if you did re-balance Caldari fittings you would have to be consistent with all Caldari suits.

How about actually buffing something without taking away things?
And not everyone has pg skills maxed, only 5-8 pg should be taken if necessary.

For those who seem to fail to understand what ive posted:

those "nerfed" fits are still possible when hotfix charlie drops:

GK.0 snetinel full proto and no drawbacks:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5622

AK.0 sentinel full proto no drawbacks:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5618

Ck.0 sentinel gets gimped on CPU and has to make drawbacks on tank and weapons:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5619

All your assault changes are rendered worthless as long amarr and gallente sentinels can fit whatever they are fancy with. The only thing that this hotfix achieves is to just cut the spare PG and CPU off which amarr and gallente doesnt need. While on the other hand its nerfing caldari hard compared to other races.

For those who seem to fail to understand what ive posted:

those "nerfed" fits are still possible when hotfix charlie drops:

GK.0 snetinel full proto and no drawbacks:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5622

AK.0 sentinel full proto no drawbacks:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5618

Ck.0 sentinel gets gimped on CPU and has to make drawbacks on tank and weapons:
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5619

All your assault changes are rendered worthless as long amarr and gallente sentinels can fit whatever they are fancy with. The only thing that this hotfix achieves is to just cut the spare PG and CPU off which amarr and gallente doesnt need. While on the other hand its nerfing caldari hard compared to other races.

PROTO Cal Assault:

3 complex extenders

2 complex energizers

1 complex shield regulator

1 complex cpu mod

proto RR

proto bolt pistol

proto av grenades

std needle

---

450 shield hp

86.48 shield hp/s

3.07 second shield delay

8.41 depleted shield delay

558/562 cpu

74/85 pg

---

im look at this as my primary suit. good mix of tank vs regen and i can fit a needle.

Obviously this is all due to the massive CPU usage of rechargers and energizers. You could reduce the fitting cost of these modules, however I prefer the idea of swapping some shield suit (mainly Caldari) PG for CPU. This should have the following benefits over changing the modules requirements:

It strengthens the differences between shield and armor suits

It encourages more varied fittings/playstyles by discouraging dual tanking and encouraging the use of regen mods.

Do you know that I have 47 Million sp and I have a proto suit unlocked for all five roles in the game?
I'm not a noob, I'm being rational and logical here.

First of all, they're buffing the Assault capacity (they need to buff them more than the proposed values honestly, aside from Amarr that is)

My Amarr Assault can run almost all prototype modules along with a six kin SMG and a Viziam SCR (two of the most fitting intensive weapons in the game for their classes). So obviously it's not assaults all around, but maybe just the Gal and Cal assaults that should get a major buff. The Amarr Assault feels fine as is.

I also just propsed that my 450ish cpu Amarr Sentinel get nerfed to about 340 cpu (after bonuses)
That's a 100 cpu nerf that I (and most other people) should be completely fine with.

The general rule is that you should be able to run all proto modules as long as you sacrifice your grenade and sidearm slot. Running both a proto grenade and sidearm is almost 100 cpu, which is the cost of upgrading 3 modules to complex. If you want to be more powerful when it comes to weapons, you should have to sacrifice modules, or vice versa.

In fact, my Minmatar Logi can fit all proto flux equipment, a six kin ACR, and all complex mods (aside from plates) because I sacrifice my grenade slot and use a precision mod rather than
______________________________________________________________________________________

Honestly, I'm just going to guess that you haven't maxed out your fitting skills yet (or you only have level 3 assault) if you're running that many advanced modules on your Assault
Go do that before you comment about this any more.

As for running a light weapon on a Sentinel, I can be glad to inform you that I'm not a scrub, and I have a proto Amarr Commando in which to run light weapons on if I wanted to run light weapons on a heavy frame.

If you were to read what I was saying IN CONTEXT, you would know that I was simply stating that it would be a BAD IDEA to run a proto light weapon on the sentinel since I would have to then sacrifice multiple complex modules on top of my sidearm and grenade sacrifices (due to the cpu I saved from using a heavy weapon). With the low CPU that I proposed, it then further discourges players to run light weapons on Sentinels, WHICH I WANT TO HAPPEN SO THAT SCRUBS WILL STOP DOING IT.

Okay? Gah I feel like I shouldn't have to explain myself like this.

To be honest the 3 main fitting aspects should be taken into consideration on the PG+CPU changes on sentinels:

-Tank
the tanking on a heavy is CPU or PG intense but never both

-Gank
its fairly even but complex damage mods are PG and CPU heavy thoug require more CPU then shield extenders. The gun you fit plays a role on it aswell.

-Speed
speed modules are PG intensive

You look what suit has which focus and then decide which category you nerf on it. Nerfing PG on a caldari sentinel however seems pointless cause shield modules dont really require alot of CPU. Amarr and gallente require alot of PG to make plates and armor repairs work and the minmatarr mainly use speed modules which need alot of PG.

The ultimate balance would be that you have to sacrifice something to achieve a advantage on either tank, gank or speed. A galente heavy should be aible to still fit 4 complex armor plates but not a proto HMG, SMG and grenade on top. The HMG should be advanced, the SMG standard and the grenade aswell advanced. If you want more firepower you should lower your tanking to make room for a proto HMG.

No other suit in the game is currently capable to go full proto except for sentinels. Which is a balance issue.

Thank you for the feedback. Let us retreat back into our caves and come back with final designs based on you r feedback.