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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11118
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have to ask - Why does the Amarr get a fitting increase?
It's really only the Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar Assaults who suffered from poor fitting, the Amarr only suffered from lacking a slot, which they now have had given to them.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11118
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 00:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
I believe Caldari PG should stay the same (or even lower) and instead increase their CPU more.
Really it's always the CPU I lack.
That 85PG isn't going to be used up anytime soon unless I run triple kin cats or something.
With the Gallente Assault I'm not sure, gonna have to do some testing in proto fits.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11118
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 00:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5565
Here's an example.
As you can see, despite everything (with the exception of the nanohive) being prototype, I still don't lack powergrid, only CPU.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11118
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 00:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think the Amarr Assault should remain as is, and the rest of the Assaults should be brought up to par in terms of CPU/PG.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11120
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Posted - 2014.07.19 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed.
1 PG != 1 CPU
A better comparison would be:
1 PG = 5 CPU
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11121
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Posted - 2014.07.19 01:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Killer's Coys wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I believe your comparison of capacity is flawed.
1 PG != 1 CPU
A better comparison would be:
1 PG = 5 CPU Not for everything... For Caldari yes, 5CPU = 1PG But for Gallente, 1CPU = 1PG I think But, at the end, we al see Caldari hasn't enought CPU 
I reached 1PG = 5 CPU by dividing CPU by PG on the Amarr Assault.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11121
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 01:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have made a spreadsheet with an alternative proposal: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15rwmh5VU4pOlPxQ-uZO0tdu4lJZvIcpENxXbqYnwewY/edit?usp=sharing
The Amarr Assault never really lacked CPU/PG, I think it's in an excellent place when it comes to CPU/PG and it doesn't need a buff.
Instead I believe the rest of the assaults should have the same Capacity as the Amarr Assault.
From left to right, CPU increases while PG decreases
Amarr --> Gallente --> Minmatar --> Caldari
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11131
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Posted - 2014.07.19 03:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy).
That's why you get highest PG.
SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11132
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Posted - 2014.07.19 04:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). That's why you get highest PG. SCR's draw higher PG, but not really higher CPU. Are you blind? I mentioned that laser rifles have highest CPU requirements. My advanced LR has almost as much CPU draw as a proto combat rifle (74 vs 78 iirc).
Umm, it costs 92CPU/10PG at proto
My Duvolle costs 90CPU/13PG
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11133
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 05:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:Harpyja wrote:You're forgetting that the ScR has massive PG costs and the LR has massive CPU costs. Amarr weapons cost the most amount of fititng (or 'capacity') so fitting those reduces our overall 'capacity' per slot so in the end, if you keep all the suits the same as you have, the Amarr will have the least amount of freedom for fits. Amarr need more CPU and PG than the other suits to be able to use their weapons. It's not balanced if say, we have to downgrade some of our mods in order to fit our weapon while other suits don't need to. Amarr ships in EVE also have high fitting resources: Abaddon (Amarr) - 21000 PG, 560 CPU Rokh (Caldari) - 15000 PG, 780 CPU Maelstrom (Minmatar) - 21000 PG, 640 CPU Hyperion (Gallente) - 16000 PG, 600 CPU Now, EVE did a much better job at balancing fitting resources among weapons, shield modules, and armor modules. Shield modules are CPU heavy while armor modules are PG heavy. That's why Caldari has the most CPU and least PG. Also, energy (laser) and projectile weaponry are the most PG intensive of the weapons, which is why Amarr and Minmatar have high PG values. While Amarr and Gallente purely armor tank, Minmatar can do a little bit of both shield and armor, so they have higher CPU than Amarr and Gallente. Hybrid weapons and missile launchers are the least resource intensive of the weapons, which is why Caldari and Gallente have fairly low PG. Keep in mind that this is extremely generalized. Now transfer this over to Dust. Amarr weapons have the highest resource usage, so there's a start as to why they should have more resources. However, shield and armor modules have very little difference in fitting requirements (which is a flaw in game design), so those don't offer any reasons to buff CPU or PG on any suit. Really, the only important factor tjhat remains here is weapon resource draw, and Amarr weapons have the highest. Therefore, the differences in suit PG/CPU can really mostly only be based on their racial weapons, and Amarr gets the most (because ScR is PG heavy and LR is CPU heavy). Amarr Equipment too - the Uplinks are resource intensive as well.
That's a logi concern.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11137
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Posted - 2014.07.19 10:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Amarr Assault needs a second look, agreed. Anything else?
Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11137
|
Posted - 2014.07.19 10:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Macchi00 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players, We have been revisiting a lot of the PG/CPU (I will call it Capacity or Cap from now on) per dropsuit in the last months. It has become blatantly clear, by a lot of definitons, that Assault suits have too little capacity and Sentinels have way too much. Data points such as comparing capacity per slot for all the roles, and fitting limitations of the Assault. We tried and testing multiple combinations of full proto items in all slots, and the difference is very noticeable. The use of Assault Rifle Sentinels is also very prevalent and not something the game is balanced around, but we have not wanted to enforce Heavy weapons only in the Heavy Weapon slot, but will address it differently. For these numbers, an improved methodology of capacity slot allotment per individual slot has been worked out, so that the capacity is the sum of all slots, balanced per tier and slot type and race. That means that a slot layout change can be represented immediately in a new capacity. The result can be found in the following document. Dropsuit CapacityThe effective buff is around 10% increased capacity to Assaults, and an effective 10% nerf to Sentinel capacity, the reduction being offset by a 5% per level fitting reduction to Heavy Weapons. By these changes, Sentinels are still considerably ahead of the second highest capacity per slot, the Commando, and the third highest, the Scout. The Assault, having been the lowest, will be placed in and around Scouts and Logistics. We believe these changes are warranted and fair. We encourage you to prove, and demonstrate, that some viable fittings are OP or UP, and we will take those into consideration with the final numbers. Please keep it civil and constructive P.S. We also buffed Minmatar Scout PG a little EDIT: Please do not factor in the theoretical new layout. Use current slot layouts for theory crafting as those are familiar to you. Combining the two discussions will result in inconclusive data for us. I think lowering the CPU of the C-Assault, and we should increase the PG instead. Because, RR and Bolt pistol, and shield extender have high PG.
Wat
Caldari already fit CPU mods all the time.
You want to reduce Caldari CPU further? 
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11146
|
Posted - 2014.07.20 03:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/136/5599
As you can see, the powergrid on the Caldari Assault is pretty much wasted.
Even if I fit a prototype sidearm, grenade and equipment, I'm pretty sure I still won't be able to fill the PG on the Cal Assault.
With a 5/2 slot layout this will become even worse.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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