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Vrain Matari's Idea on the Assault- The Perfect Solution

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501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:39:00 - [1] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I really don't like where Rattati's going with the Assault, but i understand the motivation. Increasing hp is a safe answer, but it's about as uninspired as it gets. Tbh i feel the same way about the proposals to increase dps & rof, but agree with the sentiment that the assault should be the class that pushes objectives. Buffing hp and/or dps just leads to more disparity between vets and noobs, and leaves us playing the brick tank/dps game. So if we don't buff tank and dps what do we do? My answer is buff by 2-3%/lvl of assault suit operation all the skill/abilities that allow an assault to apply damage: sprint speed, range, dispersion, reload, shield/armor recovery rate & delay, ammo capacity, melee, resupply rate, respawn time. Why? Because these buffs would do very little to help hapless noobs, but would be powerful in the hands of a competent merc. They are a buff for assaults who know how to assault, without inflicting hp inflation or dps inflation on the game. Defining the assault suit around all those 'soft' skills also allows it to be a strong generalist suit, and as an added bonus we prolly wouldn't see a repeat of fotm fiascoes like the heartbreaking sadness that is the heavy/RR combo. Imagine facing your mirror image opponent, but with them basically 10 to 15 percent better at everything. How is that fight going to go? Buffing the soft skills will allow assaults to apply pressure sooner, harder and longer, and also allow them to quickly react and flexibly adapt to changes in the battlespace around them. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:43:00 - [2] - Quote I honestly think this is a great bonus. Perhaps add in the Second Grenade slot as well and remove the bonus to reload as the commando already has it? Everything else appears solid From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:55:00 - [3] - Quote Any1 have something to add? From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 174	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:52:00 - [4] - Quote I think you could do that stuff with modules. With more base hp you could make a viable suit without stacking loads of hp mods. Increasing base hp and speed is much more new player friendly than a load of additional suit skill bonuses. Not saying it wouldn't work, just that it's over complicated and unfriendly to low sp players. Assaults already have bonuses. Best to promote using the systems in place.
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2923	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:56:00 - [5] - Quote For the last time, there will be no second grenade slot! The game does not support this feature and would require a client update to make it support 2 grenade slots. It's not gonna happen... My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.07.16 13:54:00 - [6] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imagine facing your mirror image opponent, but with them basically 10 to 15 percent better at everything. How is that fight going to go? So other suits like the sentinels get a 10-15% bonus to one or two base attributes like damage resistance, but Assaults get 10-15% bonus to "everything"? Don't you think this is no only overpowered but also does nothing to define the Assault role other than just buffing their base stats? Don't get me wrong I think a simple HP increase doesn't really accomplish that either, but there are far more eloquent suggestions on the forums here. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 913	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:03:00 - [7] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Assaults already have bonuses. Best to promote using the systems in place. Not trying to dispute but the " systems in place " , are failing and has created this discussion . Assaults need new and improved bonuses that doesn't negate someone being inventive in their gameplay and style . Bonuses to " certain " weapons , negate creativity and places borders on what a particular race can do instead of highlighting their strengths and the ability to adapt to their surroundings . All Caldari don't use RR like all Gal's don't use Plasma Rifles and so on but racial weapons bonuses , put constraints on the imagination and causes others to use a race that they might not care to use , to use a weapon that they can perform better with and causes some to do two and three times the work threw specking into other races . Thinking outside of the box should be promoted and not excluded . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
MINA Longstrike 1022	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:18:00 - [8] - Quote What you want to do creates an even bigger disparity between new players and vets. All that the medium frames are really in need of is hp total / regen rate fixes as that is the largest things wrong with them - a light has 70% of the hp of a medium but a medium only has about 25-33% the hp of a heavy, doing anything other than fixing the hp disparity just doesn't really address the actual issues. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2162	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:20:00 - [9] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I think you could do that stuff with modules. With more base hp you could make a viable suit without stacking loads of hp mods. Increasing base hp and speed is much more new player friendly than a load of additional suit skill bonuses. Not saying it wouldn't work, just that it's over complicated and unfriendly to low sp players. Assaults already have bonuses. Best to promote using the systems in place. I was thinking that buffing the soft skills was more friendly to new players - the vets get more benefit from hp than newish players do, and we know that one of the results of more base hp is going to be more brick tank, and we've already got 1000+ hp assaults out there. A newer player who has the basic passive, biotic and weapons skills to lvl 3, say, will get pretty good bang for the buck out of a couple levels in assault suit, whereas taking those bonuses up a level by training the skill to lvl 4 is a serious investment for a new player. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2162	Posted - 2014.07.16 14:41:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Imagine facing your mirror image opponent, but with them basically 10 to 15 percent better at everything. How is that fight going to go? So other suits like the sentinels get a 10-15% bonus to one or two base attributes like damage resistance, but Assaults get 10-15% bonus to "everything"? Don't you think this is no only overpowered but also does nothing to define the Assault role other than just buffing their base stats? Don't get me wrong I think a simple HP increase doesn't really accomplish that either, but there are far more eloquent suggestions on the forums here. We can tweak the percentage. The thing about these 'soft' skills is that they don't directly buff damage or hp, and the only way to really take advantage of them is through your playstyle. So a player who is just mindlessly leaping into the fray will derive very little benefit at all. The only players that will be able to really exploit what these soft buffs give them will be peeps who can control the fight so that they can take advantage of their suit's strengths. Any good fpser coming into DUST will be able to exploits the strengths the assault suit offers pretty quickly, without having to invest millions of sp to get there, whereas Vets who can't adapt and are relying on tank and dps will derive proportionately less benefit in a fight from soft buffs. Will these soft buffs allow an assault to go toe-to-toe with a heavy any better than they can now? No. Will these soft buffs allow an assault to keep a heavy busy longer and be in better shape at the end of the fight? Absolutely. We've already been through brick tanking, we've already bee through damage inflation and TTL issues. Lastly, the assault suit needs to be a generalist's suit, so some of it's bonuses have to be generic and apply broadly to all races and many playstyles. These soft buffs do that, and they do it in a hot fixable fashion. tl:dr Trying to find role buffs for a generalist suit that don't inflate hp and don't inflate dps, both of which benefit vets(good and bad) proportionately more than they benefit new players. PSN: RationalSpark


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4337	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:28:00 - [11] - Quote Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:33:00 - [12] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Lastly, the assault suit needs to be a generalist's suit, so some of it's bonuses have to be generic and apply broadly to all races and many playstyles. These soft buffs do that, and they do it in a hot fixable fashion. I completely disagree. Assault, like Logistics and Sentinels and Scouts, are specialty suits. They're supposed to be focused on a particular facet of gameplay and should have bonuses that push it towards that specific facet. Frame Suits on the other hand ARE generalist suits, so if you applied a bonus like this more towards Frame Suits, Id be a lot more supportive of it. However, Assaults need to have a specific role they're designed around, not some generalist role Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 487	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:34:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I don't like that idea. What would an assault do with an extra slot? All it does is infringe upon other roles. An Assault's one slot is good for specific loadouts; depending on my squad composition I might want a Nanohive, an uplink or an injector; adding a slot would just end up with assault-logis as well as the scout-logis we already have. I also don't like the idea of further equipment proliferation. (For the record, had I another equipment it'd have a Wiyrkomi Nanohive and I'd just swap a repper for a plate) It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2924	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:36:00 - [14] - Quote Why buff one or two things when you could buff ... everything! Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Supacharjed Xer Cloud Consortium 119	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:36:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I can see this. It allows for more versatility, which the Assault suit needs. I see the Assault as more of a generalist rather than a defined role. In another boat, why don't we remove the Damage bonus from the Commando, and toss it on to the Assault The Commando has Quantity The Assault has the Quality. Diehard Commandbro. Part Time Ninja Turtle Full Time Badass.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:37:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2925	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:39:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Pokey, Scouts generally do more than run around cloaked. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, serve AV functions, etc. Back when we were broken, cloak was supposed to "fix" us ... not standardize us. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 488	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:41:00 - [18] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Pokey, Scouts generally do more than run around cloaked. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, serve AV functions, etc. Back when we were broken, cloak was supposed to "fix" us ... not standardize us. I have a proto scout, and I don't think I've ever fit a cloak. My favourite loadouts has to be Allotek Nanohives and Gauged Uplinks. Gimps the rest of the fitting, or it would if EWAR mods weren't so light on fitting. I know a guy who runs a Nanite injector and a Repair Tool. I think Pokey has a point. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:46:00 - [19] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Pokey, Scouts generally do more than run around cloaked. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, serve AV functions, etc. Back when we were broken, cloak was supposed to "fix" us ... not standardize us. I understand the reasoning behind it, I dont particularly like it, but I get it (I run scout fairly regularly as well). To be fair the Scout is partially a Support role character, providing a mix of intel as well as asset control and some combat services. So the two equipment is acceptable, even if I still kinda merrrr at it. My point being that adding equipment for the sake of adding it on an Assault is just going to devalue the Logi further. The Assault is not a support role, it is a purely combat role. And while having one equipment for some personal use is good, giving it additional support capabilities just infringes on other's roles further. Don't get me wrong, Im all about buffing up the Assault, but the right things need to be buffed, and adding additional support abilities is not the right way to go about doing it. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:49:00 - [20] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Pokey, Scouts generally do more than run around cloaked. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, serve AV functions, etc. Back when we were broken, cloak was supposed to "fix" us ... not standardize us. I have a proto scout, and I don't think I've ever fit a cloak. My favourite loadouts has to be Allotek Nanohives and Gauged Uplinks. Gimps the rest of the fitting, or it would if EWAR mods weren't so light on fitting. I know a guy who runs a Nanite injector and a Repair Tool. I think Pokey has a point. And yes you're right, many of the scouts I've spoken with don't even use the cloak anymore after the reduction of the profile dampening it has, which basically allows them to be pocket-logis with 2 equipment slots. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2925	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:50:00 - [21] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Pokey, Scouts generally do more than run around cloaked. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, serve AV functions, etc. Back when we were broken, cloak was supposed to "fix" us ... not standardize us. I have a proto scout, and I don't think I've ever fit a cloak. My favourite loadouts has to be Allotek Nanohives and Gauged Uplinks. Gimps the rest of the fitting, or it would if EWAR mods weren't so light on fitting. I know a guy who runs a Nanite injector and a Repair Tool. I think Pokey has a point. Lots of people have Scouts now. This wasn't always the case. We explained to Remnant through IWS that Scouts serve particular battlefield roles. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, hack/boobytrap sh!t, perform AV functions, etc. Cloak was supposed to be help Scouts perform these roles better, not prevent Scouts from performing any role at all. Anyhow, traditional scoutly functions lean more toward support than slaying. Assaults should define slaying. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 442	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:51:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 442	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:53:00 - [23] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Pokey, Scouts generally do more than run around cloaked. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, serve AV functions, etc. Back when we were broken, cloak was supposed to "fix" us ... not standardize us. I have a proto scout, and I don't think I've ever fit a cloak. My favourite loadouts has to be Allotek Nanohives and Gauged Uplinks. Gimps the rest of the fitting, or it would if EWAR mods weren't so light on fitting. I know a guy who runs a Nanite injector and a Repair Tool. I think Pokey has a point. Lots of people have Scouts now. This wasn't always the case. We explained to Remnant through IWS that Scouts serve particular battlefield roles. We place uplinks, scan enemy positions, booby trap sh!t, perform AV functions, etc. Cloak was supposed to be help Scouts perform these roles better, not prevent Scouts from performing any role at all. Should built the cloaks into the suits and left them with only one slot.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2925	Posted - 2014.07.16 15:59:00 - [24] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Should built the cloaks into the suits and left them with only one slot. Bingo. That's exactly what we said at the time. And we were told "no" :-) Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2349	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:07:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Should built the cloaks into the suits and left them with only one slot. Bingo. That's exactly what we said at the time. And we were told "no" :-) Either way, I think we can do better for Assaults ... Maybe a 2nd grenade slo mixed in with the other improvements? If that'd require client-side change, maybe +100% to grenade count? Well I've been chatting with Logi and Assault folks a like, trying to get Medium suits in general more balanced and useful, this is the current state of the discussion https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 642	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:20:00 - [26] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: My answer is buff by 2-3%/lvl of assault suit operation all the skill/abilities that allow an assault to apply damage: sprint speed, range, dispersion, reload, shield/armor recovery rate & delay, ammo capacity, melee, resupply rate, respawn time. First off, I really like the idea in general. I think you're right that by buffing a lot of smaller, 'soft' skills the Assault will become more generalist and adaptive. Now, for the bonuses I think we need to cull your list a little: Sprint speed: yep, sounds good. Means at walking speed Scouts still have an advantage but Assaults can push the envelope when running. Range: no no no, we had this issue in Chromosome (or somewhere early, I forget) where vets would just win all of their fights because of superior range. Now we have effective/optimals, that would be less clear cut, but it would also be dangerous: we'd likely see all kinds of Assaults running Rail Rifles dues to their range extension. Dispersion: seems reasonable enough. Reload: yeah, can get behind that. Less than the Commando bonus but still worthwhile. Shield/Armour recovery: I think this should be separated to being a racial bonus: Minmatar getting improved Shield regen times; Gallente getting rep rate; Caldari getting a minor shield resistance (1%/level to all, or specific types); Amarr getting a minor armour resistance (1%/level to all, or specific types.) All would still get a regenerative bonus but be racially derived. Ammo capacity: if we're talking reserve, I agree. Melee: meh, I think you could add it and it would rarely ever be seen anyway! Resupply rate: interesting, though wouldn't it be more o a Logi bonus, rather than someone gathering ammo faster? Respawn rate: also interesting. Since this is not the bonus alone, I like it. It means that if you clear an area, the first enemies you are likely to see again will be Assaults. Overall, +1. Alt of Halla Murr.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4343	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:32:00 - [27] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 311	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:50:00 - [28] - Quote There was another post I saw where someone said giving Assaults a bonus to damage mods. I thought about it, but I still feel the Commando should be the damage machine. Being slow means they have to run farther to kill things, and to top that changing bonuses changes the reasons people spec into suits. The reason I rallied this post is because while the Assaults are a defined role, other roles already kill better than them. You will not find a role that can kill better than a heavy, not with the HMG DPS. What you can do however is make the Assault a suit that LOVES to push. Speed helps it keep up with Scouts and use their intel, but don't buff their stamina. A bonus to module effeacy allows Assaults that are hurt to fall back, and then return. Again, not as fast as scouts, but not so frickin slow that they need a Logi to heal, not unless they stack 700 armor. The respawn bonus as someone said is perfect, I like that fact. You see a point about to fall, you can either risk it can get out your heavy, or spawn Assault to hold off the push while a fellow Squadmate spawns in as a Heavy. Perhaps Switch the Melee bonus for a bonus to using any sidearm? In other words keeping the current bonus of the Minmatar Assaults added clip capacity. Maximum ammo in the clip for Minmatar. I don't like the idea of a second equipment Slot. Assaults are meant to get to the front. They are specialized because of what they pick. Drop a link so your fireteam gets there sooner? Ammo because the enemy is entrenched? RES? The Assault is a suit that should be able to help a Scout if needed, and contain the enemy if not push in. The reason this won't cause a Fit of the Month is because Heavies will still slay them (No damage bonus), they aren't faster than Scouts in terms of Mobility or EWAR unless you Brick Tank your scout and EWAR your Assault, and as Vrain said, These bonuses go with your cores. Everyone says get those first before your Proto suit. The Assault will make such things more apparent if you skill into the modules for it, just as Dampening and Precision aid Scouts, and maxing out your HP upgrades shows on a Heavy. 07 From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 444	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:50:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... I'm a shield tanker. And while extra ammo is nice, having my equipment destroyed is the reason I don't use deployable equipment. So I carry a needle and rep tool? There goes the logi population Armor tankers get needles, rep tools, and armor hives. What do shield tankers get? That's why I don't use equipment now.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 975	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:54:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Just make the logi and assault the same suit already, let people decide by slot modules/equipment what they want to do (logi or Slayer) and get rid of those stupid logi-bonuses.

RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 975	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:55:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... THEORY . REALITY is what we need.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 311	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:55:00 - [32] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Just make the logi and assault the same suit already, let people decide by slot modules/equipment what they want to do (logi or Slayer) and get rid of those stupid logi-bonuses. haha are you kidding? From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 975	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:58:00 - [33] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Just make the logi and assault the same suit already, let people decide by slot modules/equipment what they want to do (logi or Slayer) and get rid of those stupid logi-bonuses. haha are you kidding? Atleast you make a distinction between logi/Slayer, Like in fitting equipment will use necessary CPU/PG to make a slayer fit. People are still going to use scouts for assaults anyway.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 444	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:05:00 - [34] - Quote RKKR wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Just make the logi and assault the same suit already, let people decide by slot modules/equipment what they want to do (logi or Slayer) and get rid of those stupid logi-bonuses. haha are you kidding? Atleast you make a distinction between logi/Slayer, Like in fitting equipment will use necessary CPU/PG to make a slayer fit. People are still going to use scouts for assaults anyway. Of course. The scout assaults already said that if passive perma scans are still on scouts, they don't have a reason to use assaults. How do you kill something that knows where you are, what direction you're facing, can cloak, has the same dps as you, moves faster, jumps higher, has an extra equipment slot, and doesn't need to fit stealth mods to retain it's ewar advantage?
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:09:00 - [35] - Quote i thought the assault was supposed to be the scissors for dealing with paper, thats some heavy paper on those scouts Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, make it uniquely your own........ Bruce Lee
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2355	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:12:00 - [36] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: The reason I rallied this post is because while the Assaults are a defined role, other roles already kill better than them. You will not find a role that can kill better than a heavy, not with the HMG DPS. What you can do however is make the Assault a suit that LOVES to push. Speed helps it keep up with Scouts and use their intel, but don't buff their stamina. A bonus to module effeacy allows Assaults that are hurt to fall back, and then return. Again, not as fast as scouts, but not so frickin slow that they need a Logi to heal, not unless they stack 700 armor. While Assaults should be the 2nd fastest suits, they should be no means be able to match the speed of the Scout. If anything they should have a lot of stamina so they can keep moving, rather than burst of speed which is really more rewarding for the scout role which is about flanking and gathering information before the rest of the team is already in the shithole. As for the HMG, yes, within its range it should be devastating, however the Assault should be the king of killing anything outside that range, and it's currently not. It needs to have the skills and damage output to be able to be a mid range specialist, mowing down heavies before they get into range. Medium suits in general need to have bonuses which makes them extremely good at active tanking and regenerating HP quickly as this is particularly well suited for the mid-range fighter. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2899	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:16:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I'm kinda against. I think deciding between nanohives and drop uplinks is good. I don't want to give assaults too much flexibility in this regard. A nanohive and an uplink on every assault suit is a truly powerful option. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
MINA Longstrike 1024	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:21:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. As much as I'd like it, Logi's would then need a minimum of 4 slots at advanced to properly differentiate them from assaults. I myself would run nanite injector + nanohive on my assaults which would I feel make me too independent of actual logistical support, and I imagine most people would run similar things. Assaults should be about being able to repeatedly engage people with a primary light weapon - Right now the Amarr currently fills this role the best due to how good they make their races light weapons function. Gallente could be quite good (though dispersion and kick aren't as noticeable as something like heat buildup). The key functions to a functional assault role are: Fast turnarounds, standard to above average HP, and increased weapon functionality. If we're given relative hitpoint independence (unlike heavies, who repair really slowly unless there is a logi present), we need either ammo, scans, drop uplinks or injectors things that we should be forced to choose one thing from and that should make any logi a welcome addition to the party. If you have three or four assaults with two slots, they can provide ammo, uplinks, injectors, and even scans with redundancy. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 55	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:52:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... That's a bad way to assault though... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6552	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:50:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. eeewww no. That's disgusting, absolutely appalling. see you space cowboy...

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14605	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:17:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. This sounds like the most unimaginative solution possible. Why would you go for a second equipment on the slayer over a second grenade, which, you know, would actually help them slay? The Future
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1159	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:21:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. yes ONLY if it would come along with adding a new type of 'assault' equipment: see The Dark Cloud's thread here People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 914	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:39:00 - [43] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Assaults need to have a specific role they're designed around, not some generalist role . So your tying to fit them in a box ? The thing that I like about what CCP is doing with the scouts is that they seen where they went wrong and they fixed it , those who use scouts as light assaults would have done so because of their displeasure with the current bonuses that assaults have .. the only one that I like is when they gave the skill for weapons because that let the advanced assault fit damage mods and pro weapons and that's more offense than they were use to without maxing the tree branch , which a lot of newer players could not take advantage of ... so in a since it was giving them a taste of what they could have with the branch investment along with the role bonus ( Like reload skills and such ) , so that gives one incentive to skill more and focus on that role to improve their performance which should be promoted , but what Vrain is doing is not penalizing one for thinking out side the box .. like I use to Caldari assault before I started using Amarr Logi for the side arm and all , for anti-vehicle as well and also ran scanners and e-war while laying spawns , without the shared bonus and sniped also performing more than just frontline assault .. which is how it should be played . The commando cant really be adaptive and to the EQ question , that suits needs a grenade slot and another EQ slot .. but the assault should be the platform that promotes creative game styles and play and not be constrained by certain role based bonuses that place them in a box , where independent thought is not taken advantage of . Where there obvious differences are not highlighted , like Gal's ability to armor tank and rep at the same time or the fact that threw using rangers , they can see better or regulators they can gain a shield recharge benefit . Amarr the same and use stamina and kincats . Causing creative thinking outside the constraints of a " Box " should be promoted and not excluded . I can understand where he is coming from in his approach and appreciate it as well . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
wiseguy12 Ancient Legion 38	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:45:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... I personally love this idea. the possibilities are endless. *Eye of the Reaper*
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 914	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:46:00 - [45] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. This sounds like the most unimaginative solution possible. Why would you go for a second equipment on the slayer over a second grenade, which, you know, would actually help them slay? I'm sure Fiend knows that your just trying to do your job sir but he does make a point there . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
wiseguy12 Ancient Legion 38	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:51:00 - [46] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. This sounds like the most unimaginative solution possible. Why would you go for a second equipment on the slayer over a second grenade, which, you know, would actually help them slay? I'm sure Fiend knows that your just trying to do your job sir but he does make a point there . Think about it this would allow those bonuses previously mentioned scanner= scan increase Nanohives=extra ammo etc. *Eye of the Reaper*
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2361	Posted - 2014.07.16 20:02:00 - [47] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Assaults need to have a specific role they're designed around, not some generalist role . So your tying to fit them in a box ? The thing that I like about what CCP is doing with the scouts is that they seen where they went wrong and they fixed it , those who use scouts as light assaults would have done so because of their displeasure with the current bonuses that assaults have .. the only one that I like is when they gave the skill for weapons because that let the advanced assault fit damage mods and pro weapons and that's more offense than they were use to without maxing the tree branch , which a lot of newer players could not take advantage of ... so in a since it was giving them a taste of what they could have with the branch investment along with the role bonus ( Like reload skills and such ) , so that gives one incentive to skill more and focus on that role to improve their performance which should be promoted , but what Vrain is doing is not penalizing one for thinking out side the box .. like I use to Caldari assault before I started using Amarr Logi for the side arm and all , for anti-vehicle as well and also ran scanners and e-war while laying spawns , without the shared bonus and sniped also performing more than just frontline assault .. which is how it should be played . The commando cant really be adaptive and to the EQ question , that suits needs a grenade slot and another EQ slot .. but the assault should be the platform that promotes creative game styles and play and not be constrained by certain role based bonuses that place them in a box , where independent thought is not taken advantage of . Where there obvious differences are not highlighted , like Gal's ability to armor tank and rep at the same time or the fact that threw using rangers , they can see better or regulators they can gain a shield recharge benefit . Amarr the same and use stamina and kincats . Causing creative thinking outside the constraints of a " Box " should be promoted and not excluded . I can understand where he is coming from in his approach and appreciate it as well . You act like I want them to have a pre made fit that cant be changed, and thats far from the truth. Im saying that as a player, when I go into a Specialty suit, I want to feel like it actually has a specialty. Giving the the Assault a bunch of minor "indirect" bonses doesn't make it a better slayer suit, it just makes it slightly better suit than it was at level 1. Suits should be flexible, yes, thats why we have all these neat modules and slots and equipment to customize with. But when you train into a speciality suit, those bonuses it get should encourage you to use that suit to play a certain role. Giving the Assault "Generalist" roles does not encourage a certain kind of playstyle, and thus I can't agree with it. Now if you wanted to give generalist bonuses to the Medium Frame? ******* sweet, I love that idea. But the Assault Bonuses should scream "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU WEAR GO TO KILL PEOPLE" and minor upgrades to reload and sprint speed and all kinds of indirect stats doesn't do that. Like I said I don't want to sound like I'm shitting on the idea, because its a pretty legit idea, but Id rather see it applied to Medium Frame suits instead of Assaults specifically. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 2111	Posted - 2014.07.16 20:08:00 - [48] - Quote /!\ Regeneration ability /!\ Leave scouts the ability to tank enough defenses but take away their regenerative prowess, force scouts to use their cloak, speed or mobility to seek longer downtime to recover. I can assault much better with a ck.0 Scout with 4 shield extenders and 2 shield regulators, at 50 hp/s shield regen and a delay that is under 2 seconds I can maintain my 453 shields throughout multiple engagements, all while my Combat Rifle or ScR chews through any and all opponents. I should be saying this about my Assault suit and not my scout suit. Improved regeneration ability allows the Assault to maintain the frontline and have it be priority for defending units to eliminate quickly, because if left alive it can easily kite and outlast any defending heavy by using its mobility and clever use of cover to regenerate it's health and re-engage quicker than it would take a heavy to repair itself. As an Amarr Assault user I have no use for more health, I need the ability to continuously engage the enemy and maintain a front line, I don't want to be a tanked out heavy I wan't to be a mobile assault force, and I believe that regenerative abilities will allow me to do so; I already run 2 complex reps and 2 plates on my Amarr Assault, but it is still inadequate. The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6326	Posted - 2014.07.16 20:21:00 - [49] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... I can't even fit a sufficient ammo hive on my usual Assault fits, let alone an armor hive in a -second- equipment slot. Even with 35 skills at level 5. Hell, this suit doesn't even have anything in the equipment slot because it's too hard to fit. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 4	Posted - 2014.07.16 20:24:00 - [50] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Just make the logi and assault the same suit already, let people decide by slot modules/equipment what they want to do (logi or Slayer) and get rid of those stupid logi-bonuses. haha are you kidding? Remove my equipment slot and let me go tank on some light frames. More?? No, absolutely not. Suite is for killing. Team is gor support.

Paladin Sas Pro Hic Immortalis 401	Posted - 2014.07.16 20:41:00 - [51] - Quote @op, i think adding more bonuses to soft skills on a racial basis instead of a blanket upgrade is definitely the right way to go. i LOVE the reload bonus on the calass... one of the greatest bonuses ever. @rattati, omg, please! another equipment slot would be amazing to help with the versatility of the assault suit, i miss the double equip of closed beta. and please, for the love of all that is holy, do not remove the calass reload bonus. it is truly amazing for pushing objectives
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 316	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:38:00 - [52] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: /!\ Regeneration ability /!\ Leave scouts the ability to tank enough defenses but take away their regenerative prowess, force scouts to use their cloak, speed or mobility to seek longer downtime to recover. I can assault much better with a ck.0 Scout with 4 shield extenders and 2 shield regulators, at 50 hp/s shield regen and a delay that is under 2 seconds I can maintain my 453 shields throughout multiple engagements, all while my Combat Rifle or ScR chews through any and all opponents. I should be saying this about my Assault suit and not my scout suit. Improved regeneration ability allows the Assault to maintain the frontline and have it be priority for defending units to eliminate quickly, because if left alive it can easily kite and outlast any defending heavy by using its mobility and clever use of cover to regenerate it's health and re-engage quicker than it would take a heavy to repair itself. As an Amarr Assault user I have no use for more health, I need the ability to continuously engage the enemy and maintain a front line, I don't want to be a tanked out heavy I wan't to be a mobile assault force, and I believe that regenerative abilities will allow me to do so; I already run 2 complex reps and 2 plates on my Amarr Assault, but it is still inadequate. I like this idea as well. Perhaps make the overarching Assault bonus a bonus to Renegerative Modules? Or should we keep the Weapon Fitting reduction? I just don't want to touch the damage bonus on the Commando, because CCP can't give Respecs, and a solution that avoids that is more easy to install. Furthermore, the Assault should not be the Killing suit. What would be the point of the Commando? It'll be slower, less DPS than Assaults, vulnerable to Scouts and Heavies, it would hold no purpose, and it would gimp the Suit. The Assault should be able to run after Scouts, and push a point due to their regen. The bonus to Clip size aids in suppression, and out shooting hostiles who would have to reload. Uplink spawn reduction time makes this say, "This is the suit that will get you in the fight more quickly" Furthermore reload bonus is the Commando. You can't change those, what bonus would the Commando get then? As I've said, Scout- Arrive to objective, cloaked or battling point defense scouts. Relay enemy counts as well as cause a little havoc with RES. Take out enemy uplinks around the point Assault- Pushing the Point, suppressive fire, gets the ball rolling. Enemy cannot come out to stop support because Assaults are suppressing Commando- Arrives next, uses damage to murder pesky scouts, mop up other hostiles, lock down the battlefield. Possibly carry AV to stop tank reinforcements, depends on the player. Logis- May show up a few seconds after the Assaults because of the speed mods, may come with the Heavy. Give the additional ammo, scans, reps, etc needed, add a little extra firepower. Heavies- Last. They come in to deal with the left over heavies that outlast the onslaught. This is the Arrival Scheme. Scout Assaults can be scout assaults, however they will be late to spawn in, can't fire as long, among other features that Vrain's suggestion has From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Aardicus G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 64	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:09:00 - [53] - Quote Interesting Ideas presented so far. I'd like to add my 2 cent. I feel the Assault class should be representative of the immortal nature of our mercs as well as the motto of constant pressure. Soooo, the overall Assault suit bonus is a new equipment slot, that is already filled with a nano injector..... that is for use on yourself only. Skilling into the suit increases shields/armor regained when revived. And reduces the cooldown for the skill. The racially specific part for each suit would be manifested in a cost (isk) reduction (ie 10% per level) so that 'spammin' assault suits would be fiscally viable. Even at proto level. Gallante get isk reduction to Gallente Assaults, etc. The net result would be people would feel more comfortable pushing objectives as an Assault because: a) the isk cost of doing so wouldn't be as prohibative if one is suitable skilled into the assault class and b) the odds of being able to self revive, will again mitigate cost, since you wouldn't lose a suit everytime you died, and would help in pushing of objectives by regaining ones feet. This is my thoughts on the matter. µòàµ¢¦n+ÜtƒÑs++tƒÑs+¦n+îtÖ+µê¦S+ìµ«ån+¢S+ìtƒÑs++FÇîtƒÑs+¦n+îS+Çsï¥S+ÇF¦án+¢S+ìtƒÑs++n+îS+ìtƒÑs+¦n+îµ»Åµê¦s+àµ«åpÇé
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 614	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:46:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. no equipment slots should be a support thing aka logi.... give them an extra grenade slot!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6557	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:13:00 - [55] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. no equipment slots should be a support thing aka logi.... give them an extra grenade slot! I honestly think Assaults should just get more grenades than other suits. see you space cowboy...
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10567	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:24:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. This would be a good step in the right direction, but it'd need to be coupled with a CPU/PG increase as well. The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 915	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:31:00 - [57] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: You act like I want them to have a pre made fit that cant be changed, and thats far from the truth. Im saying that as a player, when I go into a Specialty suit, I want to feel like it actually has a specialty. Giving the the Assault a bunch of minor "indirect" bonses doesn't make it a better slayer suit, it just makes it slightly better suit than it was at level 1. Suits should be flexible, yes, thats why we have all these neat modules and slots and equipment to customize with. But when you train into a speciality suit, those bonuses it get should encourage you to use that suit to play a certain role. Giving the Assault "Generalist" roles does not encourage a certain kind of playstyle, and thus I can't agree with it. Now if you wanted to give generalist bonuses to the Medium Frame? ***** sweet, I love that idea. But the Assault Bonuses should scream "THIS IS THE SUIT YOU WEAR GO TO KILL PEOPLE" and minor upgrades to reload and sprint speed and all kinds of indirect stats doesn't do that. Like I said I don't want to sound like I'm shitting on the idea, because its a pretty legit idea, but Id rather see it applied to Medium Frame suits instead of Assaults specifically. The " indirect bonuses " are what give that role the most flexibility and ability to " kill " more ways then one so if that isn't special then I don't know what is . Those bonuses do not place constrains on a role forcing it to be one thing and as far as mid suits bonuses , I have mentioned that a long time ago but now I'm like ... meh , none of the basic suits have bonuses so whatever . Sprint speed helps to flank opponents and attempt to counter strafe scouts . Any kind of rep enhancements help longevity of the combatant . There are obvious highlights from other proposals that would help the fighter stay in the fight and be a force in many different ways at the same time . I don't mind the difference in opinion , it gets all thoughts on the table for improvements but I see what he mentioned and I understand how it would help . Help the overall role playing experience . People will be calling it OP three days after any changes , many will complain unless CCP takes the right direction and listen . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.**
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 319	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:02:00 - [58] - Quote Aardicus wrote: Interesting Ideas presented so far. I'd like to add my 2 cent. I feel the Assault class should be representative of the immortal nature of our mercs as well as the motto of constant pressure. Soooo, the overall Assault suit bonus is a new equipment slot, that is already filled with a nano injector..... that is for use on yourself only. Skilling into the suit increases shields/armor regained when revived. And reduces the cooldown for the skill. The racially specific part for each suit would be manifested in a cost (isk) reduction (ie 10% per level) so that 'spammin' assault suits would be fiscally viable. Even at proto level. Gallante get isk reduction to Gallente Assaults, etc. The net result would be people would feel more comfortable pushing objectives as an Assault because: a) the isk cost of doing so wouldn't be as prohibative if one is suitable skilled into the assault class and b) the odds of being able to self revive, will again mitigate cost, since you wouldn't lose a suit everytime you died, and would help in pushing of objectives by regaining ones feet. This is my thoughts on the matter. This is an interesting idea bud. Wouldn't these be the only suits used however in PCs with low Clone Counts, being able to Self Revive is pretty big, and it probably would require a client change because it is an entirely different Nanite. Still, +1 From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2167	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:53:00 - [59] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Lastly, the assault suit needs to be a generalist's suit, so some of it's bonuses have to be generic and apply broadly to all races and many playstyles. These soft buffs do that, and they do it in a hot fixable fashion. I completely disagree. Assault, like Logistics and Sentinels and Scouts, are specialty suits. They're supposed to be focused on a particular facet of gameplay and should have bonuses that push it towards that specific facet. Frame Suits on the other hand ARE generalist suits, so if you applied a bonus like this more towards Frame Suits, Id be a lot more supportive of it. However, Assaults need to have a specific role they're designed around, not some generalist role You make a good point. Tbh, these were always the sorts of bonuses i imagined would be best for the frame suits. In fact, you've reminded me that on my old prioritization list from way back when DUST still had a future, i had resolving the roles of the basic frames much higher up on the list than re-working the specialist suits. Thinking was frame bonuses would be general, specialist bonuses would be role based. Still would really prefer to sort out the basic frames first, but i'm guessing there's zero traction for that approach right now. PSN: RationalSpark
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3804	Posted - 2014.07.17 03:46:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Honest question... you either love equipment spam or hate logi suits, which is it? Because the proliferation of equipment slots is getting a little crazy. You could serve the purpose you suggest with those hives better just by increasing regen and giving all assault suits an ammo bonus, all without further cheapening equipment slots. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Deathonswift SINISTER DEVELOPMENTS 2	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:18:00 - [61] - Quote So. I have read all of the replies and comments, and it seems that while the community can agree that assaults need to be the best mid-range fighter. Capable of dealing significant damage to heavies, staying mobile for long periods of time while not actually moving faster than the speed oriented scouts, and a passive repair buff that keeps them able to push the frontlines of combat without having to rely too heavily on a logi. Yet no one can agree on what buffs should be made? No wonder the fixes are always so shoddy and half-hearted! Everyone is too busy debating their ideals, when all you should be doing is helping to refine the original proposal. Darkness shrouds as Fire purges. I am the Wraith.
The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA The DOT MAFIA 43	Posted - 2014.07.17 05:51:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I bought into Destiny for my kids, and after looking at some vids of what it is I found what it's not. What I noticed is the lack of team revives. If you could sew a needle in this pocket that you mention and make it soley for this purpose you would differentiate DUST and it's core teamwork principles. Ya, people Rambo Revive and that bugs some players, but honestly not seeing needles bugs me more. I play to win so KDR is not in the calculus. Infantry is used to find, close with, and then kill the enemy-so if it's not survivability nor lethality related it is not necessary.
Aardicus G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 65	Posted - 2014.07.17 07:17:00 - [63] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Aardicus wrote: Interesting Ideas presented so far. I'd like to add my 2 cent. I feel the Assault class should be representative of the immortal nature of our mercs as well as the motto of constant pressure. Soooo, the overall Assault suit bonus is a new equipment slot, that is already filled with a nano injector..... that is for use on yourself only. Skilling into the suit increases shields/armor regained when revived. And reduces the cooldown for the skill. The racially specific part for each suit would be manifested in a cost (isk) reduction (ie 10% per level) so that 'spammin' assault suits would be fiscally viable. Even at proto level. Gallante get isk reduction to Gallente Assaults, etc. The net result would be people would feel more comfortable pushing objectives as an Assault because: a) the isk cost of doing so wouldn't be as prohibative if one is suitable skilled into the assault class and b) the odds of being able to self revive, will again mitigate cost, since you wouldn't lose a suit everytime you died, and would help in pushing of objectives by regaining ones feet. This is my thoughts on the matter. This is an interesting idea bud. Wouldn't these be the only suits used however in PCs with low Clone Counts, being able to Self Revive is pretty big, and it probably would require a client change because it is an entirely different Nanite. Still, +1 Well, I'm not a programmer so I don't know what is possible and what isn't given the current state of development in Dust. These were simply my thoughts on the matter. I don't know that they would be the only suits used in PC, though they would definitly become viable maybe. As it stands now how many Assault suits do you see in a competative PC? µòàµ¢¦n+ÜtƒÑs++tƒÑs+¦n+îtÖ+µê¦S+ìµ«ån+¢S+ìtƒÑs++FÇîtƒÑs+¦n+îS+Çsï¥S+ÇF¦án+¢S+ìtƒÑs++n+îS+ìtƒÑs+¦n+îµ»Åµê¦s+àµ«åpÇé
Floyd20 Azizora Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 64	Posted - 2014.07.17 07:40:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. only if logis get a 3rd slot at basic would this be an option. assaults needs more competitive cpu and pg(cal and gal mainly), more base hp(move away from scouts), and cal/gal need a better racial bonus(spool/charge up time on rails?)(rof on blasters? maybe a slight nerf to AR's to make up)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1518	Posted - 2014.07.17 07:59:00 - [65] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. Absolutly not. I dislike the Scouts having 2 equipment already as I feel it devalues the Logistics quite a lot, as we often see Scouts running around being better Logis than the Logis because of all the advantages being a scout brings, as well as two equipment. Actually in closed beta assaults had two equipment slots. It was useful but not op and did not invalidate logi. Unfortunately Rattati, I don't think a second equipment slot is going to fix assaults. The need changes to help them aggress more affectively. Fun > Realism

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4430	Posted - 2014.07.17 11:22:00 - [66] - Quote This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1456	Posted - 2014.07.17 11:26:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) I'm thinking give them the 2% damage per level that commandos have, and give commandos 20% increased magazine size and max ammo. Then give each assault one bonus for their racial rifle, and one bonus for their racial tank. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 462	Posted - 2014.07.17 11:49:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades is the pg/cpu for the 2nd equipment slot in addition to the 10% buff across the board? the 10% looks good but comes short of being enough for a 2nd piece of equipment.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4432	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:23:00 - [69] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades is the pg/cpu for the 2nd equipment slot in addition to the 10% buff across the board? the 10% looks good but comes short of being enough for a 2nd piece of equipment. not inclusive, but the second equipment is really debatable anyway. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 59	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:31:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades is the pg/cpu for the 2nd equipment slot in addition to the 10% buff across the board? the 10% looks good but comes short of being enough for a 2nd piece of equipment. not inclusive, but the second equipment is really debatable anyway. 15% minimum is required for caldari suits...as they are the only assault that I know of that needs a cpu mod to fit anything. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

Demandred Moores Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 6	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:41:00 - [71] - Quote I like all these changes except the equipment slot.what would stop someone from running a needle and a split rep tool? Plust all those buffs I wouldn't expect to see but one or two min logi's in pc as the assault would be so much better to kill scouts sneaking up on the logi train.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8811	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:07:00 - [72] - Quote I am not in favor of assaults gaining a second equipment slot at all, as it may have the side effect of making them a little too self-sufficient (or at least a lot more self-sufficient than other roles). Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 59	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:08:00 - [73] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I am not in favor of assaults gaining a second equipment slot at all, as it may have the side effect of making them a little too self-sufficient (or at least a lot more self-sufficient than other roles). Nor do I want it, lol. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 201	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:17:00 - [74] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: /!\ Regeneration ability /!\ Leave scouts the ability to tank enough defenses but take away their regenerative prowess, force scouts to use their cloak, speed or mobility to seek longer downtime to recover. I can assault much better with a ck.0 Scout with 4 shield extenders and 2 shield regulators, at 50 hp/s shield regen and a delay that is under 2 seconds I can maintain my 453 shields throughout multiple engagements, all while my Combat Rifle or ScR chews through any and all opponents. I should be saying this about my Assault suit and not my scout suit. Improved regeneration ability allows the Assault to maintain the frontline and have it be priority for defending units to eliminate quickly, because if left alive it can easily kite and outlast any defending heavy by using its mobility and clever use of cover to regenerate it's health and re-engage quicker than it would take a heavy to repair itself. As an Amarr Assault user I have no use for more health, I need the ability to continuously engage the enemy and maintain a front line, I don't want to be a tanked out heavy I wan't to be a mobile assault force, and I believe that regenerative abilities will allow me to do so; I already run 2 complex reps and 2 plates on my Amarr Assault, but it is still inadequate. this is where I think your problem lies, your struggling to find the assault role again because it's been taken by the scouts, who run faster, have the ability to three shot heavies, or use the same rifles as the assault from the same ranges, carry remotes which get used as extremely powerful grenades. and they run around killing with them. I know this is a fps, every role should be able to kill, etc. but really this is the role of assaulting a position, scouts are supposed to be ewar specialists. they are supposed to be running ahead giving away enemy positions, sabotage via uplinks etc, although some still use them for that type of play most don't. the cloak was supposed to be for scout use, i.e stealth, sneaking. instead it's use for outright attack. scouts very rarely run away from the enemy when they turn the cloak on. don't get me wrong I have no problem with that, I'm just pointing out that except for the cloak that's where the assault suit should be, just with more hp. also you people asking for more grenades but refusing extra equipment slots.... are you insane? . firstly you could carry grenades and res., theres your extra grenade and it kills most things outright. they can be swapped with proxies for those lavs and havs. that's out and out damage there. .you can carry extra ammo those who like things like the plc, where ammo is scarce .you can carry armour hives to set up a heal spot to help hold ground captured for the logies and heavies to arrive. (in theory) this is all things the assault should be able to do, I would suggest a pg/cpu reduction or possibly boosts that apply to "assault" equipment like on the res, much the same way as scouts get there bonuses for the cloak? I don't run assault but it seems to me they are supposed to fill the main infantry role, and the word assault basically means to attack. they should also cost less than a lot of the other suits to offset the extra deaths
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8812	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:20:00 - [75] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: I know this is a fps, every role should be able to kill, etc. Don't think of it as a first person shooter, think of it as a first person war game. Now sure, every role should be able to kill. Currently every role can kill. However, not every role needs to kill equally as well as every other. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
xAckie Ghost. Mob 427	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:36:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades Why do you think this? Genuine question. We are all assaulting in scout suits because: better speed, precision, range, recharge and delay stats, 2 equip slots and some of us can go invisible (cloaks should have their dampner bonus removed, you should be able to flank unseen but if within radius picked up) How will what you offer change this?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 688	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:49:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: not inclusive, but the second equipment is really debatable anyway. I strongly advise against the second assault equipment slot. I'm still of the opinion that the second equipment slot on scouts was an unnecessary buff. Let's leave something to the Logi-role that isn't repping a heavy.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3891	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:49:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. No. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
xAckie Ghost. Mob 427	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:51:00 - [79] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. No. yes
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3893	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:03:00 - [80] - Quote xAckie wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. No. yes Why? Why would an Assault need two equipment slots? Assaults are designed to work in groups. If you have 4 Assaults in a squad you have 4 equipment slots to work with. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 688	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:03:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor Two points to add to this: 1. The Assault suit doesn't have enough ehp to compete with the Scouts and Sentinels in their current state. Raising base ehp is a change in the right direction that also buffs new players. Remember that 100-150 ehp is a ~10-20% buff in itself. This is a big plus already. 2. If people have enough CPU/PG they will always fit ehp modules in all their slots. This may lead to less interesting fittings. Solution: Buff base ehp a bit and see how it works out. Put CPU/PG buff for Assault suits on the list for hotfix Delta. Change one thing at a time and keep iteration time low.
xAckie Ghost. Mob 427	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:07:00 - [82] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: xAckie wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. No. yes Why? Why would an Assault need two equipment slots? Assaults are designed to work in groups. If you have 4 Assaults in a squad you have 4 equipment slots to work with. Once Scout got 2 why move from that suit to assault (in current state)? It was the same problem when logi assault was a thing - people used this suits for the added equip slots. By giving Assault there is less of a reason for people to be dragged to the other suits. e.g. With Logis having four equip slots those who want to logi will
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 45	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:37:00 - [83] - Quote xAckie wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades Why do you think this? Genuine question. We are all assaulting in scout suits because: better speed, precision, range, recharge and delay stats, 2 equip slots and some of us can go invisible (cloaks should have their dampner bonus removed> if cloaks must exist, you should be able to flank unseen but if within radius picked up) How will what you offer change this? E.g. we assault heavies so the EHP wont help. I agree with the equipment slot increase. Or for Cal: If you want the assault to assault the caldari suit recharge and delay between scout and assault should be swapped. Also precision/ range needs to be (slightly) improved. I'm basically fine with the extra equipment slot. I mean fitting another slot for drop uplinks would do a whole lot to the team and for me. However, the pg/cpu needs to be a reasonable amount to fit two equipments. The Blazing Intellect Machine
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 45	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:04:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades Can we get a rough estimate what the new assaults shield/armor and PG/CPU going to be like. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2380	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:34:00 - [85] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades More HP and PG/CPU are reasonable. Equipment is a no no. Yes you can argue that a repping nanohive makes you a better slayer, but only for point defense which should not be a trait of the Assault. Assaults need to be extremely mobile killing machines, not something that encourages people to camp / be psudo Sentinels or Logistics. I strongly advise you to NOT change the rate of fire. Rate of fire is a tool used to control minimum range in weapons, specifically the mentality that lower fire rate is poor for close range (Rail Rifle) where high fire rate is quite good for close range (Assault Rifle). While ROF increases DPS, it also modifies that minimum range. The issue with this is that shorter ranged weapons such as the Assault Rifle will gain close to no benefit from a decrease in minimum range, whereas a Rail Rifle would gain a huge benefit. This causes certain weapons of the same class to benefit from the bonus far better than others. If you want to up DPS, increase the damage per shot, not the fire rate. Medium Suits as a whole should be focused around powerful HP regeneration. They should have the shortest downtime between engagements and I firmly believe both Assaults and Logistics should share in these defensive capabilities (Logistics to a lesser extent) Racial Weapon Support skills are great. Yes Commando and Assault are redundant, we can't remove commandos, but don't be afraid to make them similar. Good reload speed makes to Commando proficient with light AV weapons which typically have small magazines, whereas Assaults should get support skills for Anti-Infantry weapons. The magazine size/suppression concept for Commandos is also one worth looking at (just be prepared for Shield HAV pilots calling for nerfs when a Commando runs up with 2 Plasma Cannons that can each fire twice without reloading), but I would still feel comfortable if both Commandos and Assaults received the DPS bonus. Grenades bonuses are great idea for Assaults. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
idlerowl Old-Type 2	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:40:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades NICE I hope the difference between Scout becomes clear
Deathonswift SINISTER DEVELOPMENTS 2	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:34:00 - [87] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) I'm thinking give them the 2% damage per level that commandos have, and give commandos 20% increased magazine size and max ammo. Then give each assault one bonus for their racial rifle, and one bonus for their racial tank. Now we're getting places... Darkness shrouds as Fire purges. I am the Wraith.
Deathonswift SINISTER DEVELOPMENTS 2	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:49:00 - [88] - Quote Now I have a question. If assault is supposed to be 'the' frontliner's choice, why do the scouts have the layout and stats to 'Assault' more effectively than an Assault? Futhermore, why are heavies aquiring the damage bonus when they have heavy weapons that are already more than capable of wiping out a room of lighter suits? In order for the Assault suits to work in an assault role, other suits need to be optimized for what they're made for. Darkness shrouds as Fire purges. I am the Wraith.
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 54	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:56:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades Will you considering add 1 H/L slot to all Adv and Std Assault? Right now scout and assault have the same number (Adv 5, Std 4). Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
MINA Longstrike 1027	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:25:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades I'm much happier with the increased PG/CPU and increased armor/shields (though I feel it may be a little too low and would shoot for 15-30 points higher). Shield delays and recharge values must be looked at on assaults, currently they're so low that in truth it takes an armor tanker less time to get their total armor back than it does for a shield tanker to get their total shield back - even with regulators factored in. Increases of +10 or +15hp/second (I'm looking at around 40hp/sec on min / cal assault) would immediately place the assault suit back into an incredibly desireable place, as that's one of the places where scouts are really contentious with assaults. I have seen a ton of 4 complex shield extender cal scouts running around because of a few factors 1) small hitbox, 2) incredibly low base delays and 3) once you start to recharge you get your total shield hp in less than 10 seconds, 4) low profile and high scan range allows you to pick fights when its advantageous to you. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Terram Nenokal Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 358	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:45:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. When the C-II assault suit existed, there was absolutely no reason to have a logi. The bonus to equipment fitting on logis helps, but blurring roles like that isn't the way to go.
Yosihisa Mozzare Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:48:00 - [92] - Quote Why not add an special equipment for assaults? like the cloak field for Scouts. For example,"Acceleration module" if you activate it, you can move faster and jump higher during some period of time, but it enlarges your profile and sounds noisy Enemies must find you are charging, but you have chance to dodge their bullets and leave them behind with amazing speed! now Scouts pierce a defense line stealthily, in contrast, new assaults do it recklessn+în+Ö. Doesn't it sound cool?
Terram Nenokal Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 358	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:56:00 - [93] - Quote Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: Why not add an special equipment for assaults? like the cloak field for Scouts. For example,"Acceleration module" if you activate it, you can move faster and jump higher during some period of time, but it enlarges your profile and sounds noisy Enemies must find you are charging, but you have chance to dodge their bullets and leave them behind with amazing speed! now Scouts pierce a defense line stealthily, in contrast, new assaults do it recklessn+în+Ö. Doesn't it sound cool? Jet packs bro, jet packs.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2380	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:06:00 - [94] - Quote Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: Why not add an special equipment for assaults? like the cloak field for Scouts. For example,"Acceleration module" if you activate it, you can move faster and jump higher during some period of time, but it enlarges your profile and sounds noisy Enemies must find you are assaulting, but you have chance to dodge their bullets and leave them behind with amazing speed! now Scouts pierce a defense line stealthily, in contrast, new assaults do it recklessn+în+Ö. Doesn't it sound cool? Already spoke to CPM0 about this, Devs wont do it because they don't want to add an active equipment module that doesn't have a visual indication that it's active (such as the scout cloaking field effect), and since they can't add any visual indication, they don't want to do it. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11425	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:15:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades Charlie YES to all that stuff NO to another equipment slot Delta YES to other role bonus IF damage, if not damage, keep current fitting bonus. ROF as a role bonus would be useless for some weapons (like the SCR). YES to spool/kick reduction bonus for Caldari YES to ROF for Gallente, but be very careful with that NEUTRAL about the grenade thing, just don't make it a racial or role bonus. If you mean the grenade bonus as some built-in thing on the suit that isn't tied to any skill (you weren't really clear), please do the same for damage mods. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
TechMechMeds Techs Laboratory 3917	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:25:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... Assaults are supposed to kill, they do not need to be busying themselves with equipment and wasting time being a pseudo logi. Give them a regen bonus so they can rep between/in fights more efficiently. Make them racial bonuses as well. Minmatar and caldari get shield RECHARGE bonuses. Gallente gets an armour rep bonus that stacks with their current one. Amarr gets a bonus to ALL armour repairs so they can also enhance those reactive plates. Done, now they can regen more efficiently in and in between fights. This also makes them more self sufficient at......... drum roll Slaying. o7. Be vigilant!, for there are those that remove the teabag BEFORE adding milk!. This is unacceptable!.
Yosihisa Mozzare Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:35:00 - [97] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: Why not add an special equipment for assaults? like the cloak field for Scouts. For example,"Acceleration module" if you activate it, you can move faster and jump higher during some period of time, but it enlarges your profile and sounds noisy Enemies must find you are assaulting, but you have chance to dodge their bullets and leave them behind with amazing speed! now Scouts pierce a defense line stealthily, in contrast, new assaults do it recklessn+în+Ö. Doesn't it sound cool? Already spoke to CPM0 about this, Devs wont do it because they don't want to add an active equipment module that doesn't have a visual indication that it's active (such as the scout cloaking field effect), and since they can't add any visual indication, they don't want to do it. Its sad to hear that. I guess many players want something like this and its ideal for emphasizing the role of assaults. If they need a visual indication,the assaults with this equipment active would shine brightly.maybe RED. why cant Devs add any visual indication? are they too busy to develop new items?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2380	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:38:00 - [98] - Quote Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: why cant Devs add any visual indication? are they too busy to develop new items? Yes. That and lack of manpower. I suspect the number of people working on Dust now is extremely small. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Yosihisa Mozzare Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:43:00 - [99] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: why cant Devs add any visual indication? are they too busy to develop new items? Yes. That and lack of manpower. I suspect the number of people working on Dust now is extremely small. Plus it would likeley require a client update which isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future. Thankyou for your answering. I hope DUST development go active again... or Legion is released early.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2380	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:46:00 - [100] - Quote Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Yosihisa Mozzare wrote: why cant Devs add any visual indication? are they too busy to develop new items? Yes. That and lack of manpower. I suspect the number of people working on Dust now is extremely small. Plus it would likeley require a client update which isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future. Thankyou for your answering. I hope DUST development go active again... or Legion is released early. Well just because new art assets can't be added doesn't mean there are not other cool things we can do to make Dust a better game. Right now the focus should be on balancing what's broken, but in time we can move onto getting a little more creative within our limitations. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1

Yosihisa Mozzare Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:54:00 - [101] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well just because new art assets can't be added doesn't mean there are not other cool things we can do to make Dust a better game. Right now the focus should be on balancing what's broken, but in time we can move onto getting a little more creative within our limitations. Its the best description of our situation,I understood well.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3900	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:04:00 - [102] - Quote xAckie wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: xAckie wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. No. yes Why? Why would an Assault need two equipment slots? Assaults are designed to work in groups. If you have 4 Assaults in a squad you have 4 equipment slots to work with. Once Scout got 2 why move from that suit to assault (in current state)? It was the same problem when logi assault was a thing - people used this suits for the added equip slots. By giving Assault there is less of a reason for people to be dragged to the other suits. e.g. With Logis having four equip slots those who want to logi will My statement was not based on current state. Assault should be made to be better at applying DPS and having fast regen with a reasonable HP buffer. Adding an equipment slot is not the correct way to fix Assault suits. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3900	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:09:00 - [103] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades More HP and PG/CPU are reasonable. Equipment is a no no. Yes you can argue that a repping nanohive makes you a better slayer, but only for point defense which should not be a trait of the Assault. Assaults need to be extremely mobile killing machines, not something that encourages people to camp / be psudo Sentinels or Logistics. I strongly advise you to NOT change the rate of fire. Rate of fire is a tool used to control minimum range in weapons, specifically the mentality that lower fire rate is poor for close range (Rail Rifle) where high fire rate is quite good for close range (Assault Rifle). While ROF increases DPS, it also modifies that minimum range. The issue with this is that shorter ranged weapons such as the Assault Rifle will gain close to no benefit from a decrease in minimum range, whereas a Rail Rifle would gain a huge benefit. This causes certain weapons of the same class to benefit from the bonus far better than others. If you want to up DPS, increase the damage per shot, not the fire rate. Medium Suits as a whole should be focused around powerful HP regeneration. They should have the shortest downtime between engagements and I firmly believe both Assaults and Logistics should share in these defensive capabilities (Logistics to a lesser extent) Racial Weapon Support skills are great. Yes Commando and Assault are redundant, we can't remove commandos, but don't be afraid to make them similar. Good reload speed makes to Commando proficient with light AV weapons which typically have small magazines, whereas Assaults should get support skills for Anti-Infantry weapons. The magazine size/suppression concept for Commandos is also one worth looking at (just be prepared for Shield HAV pilots calling for nerfs when a Commando runs up with 2 Plasma Cannons that can each fire twice without reloading), but I would still feel comfortable if both Commandos and Assaults received the DPS bonus. Grenades bonuses are great idea for Assaults. I fully support everything Pokey posted here. It is spot on. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3900	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:14:00 - [104] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I'm thinking give them the 2% damage per level that commandos have, and give commandos 20% increased magazine size and max ammo. Then give each assault one bonus for their racial rifle, and one bonus for their racial tank. Agree, but on the racial tank bit I specifically feel any tanking bonus should be for regen rather than buffer. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 39	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:00:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is coming together quite nicely Charlie YES - More PG/CPU, playing around with numbers, maybe 10% across the board YES - More EHP, 100 to 150 ehp, racially consistent to shields/armor YES/NO - Another equipment slot, maybe only ADV and PRO, including the necessary PG/CPU Delta Another Role bonus, ROF, damage, TBD, ammo capacity bonus, Racial efficacy bonuses, f.ex. GA to dmg mods and/or reps, etc. Caldari reduction to Rail Rifle kick, spool up time Gallente, ROF(unless role bonus) Fitting/capacity bonus to Grenades What about shield regen for Caldari ?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 466	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:09:00 - [106] - Quote when CCP rebalanced assault ships and heavy assault ships, they gave them three things to help separate them as a role from other ships. more dps more eHP more speed more capacitor 3 of those things would help assault suits right now. we know were getting more eHP. we should also get more dps. capacitor doesnt exist for us, but it can be translated into stamina. better stamina regen would let us do the things we need to, WHEN we need to. sprinting, jumping, meleeing noobs all require stamina. a buff in stamina and regen adds to the quality of life for assaults. more speed would be good as well.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 322	Posted - 2014.07.17 22:02:00 - [107] - Quote Okay so at this point from reading everyone's post Assaults should have a bonus to damage, while Commandos lose that in exchange for the current Assault bonus (Greater clip size, as well as Rapid Reload and Total Ammo Capacity) Assaults should have a bonus to regenerative modules possibly switch the regen of Scouts to Assaults. Assaults should NOT have a Second Equipment Basic frames should get bonuses to Cores in terms of the original suggestion from Vrain (shout out to you man for starting this whole thread :), aiding in Regen, while the Bonus of the Assaults makes them the best slayer, and logis the best healers Scouts- Bonuses to EWAR and stealth Some feel the HP buff is nice, but that the bonuses still have to be good. Come later, added Assault Capacity for grenades. Assaults lose current weapon bonus? (I'm not sure if this is what people wanted...) From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
MINA Longstrike 1029	Posted - 2014.07.17 22:37:00 - [108] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Okay so at this point from reading everyone's post Assaults should have a bonus to damage, while Commandos lose that in exchange for the current Assault bonus (Greater clip size, as well as Rapid Reload and Total Ammo Capacity) Assaults should have a bonus to regenerative modules possibly switch the regen of Scouts to Assaults. Assaults should NOT have a Second Equipment Basic frames should get bonuses to Cores in terms of the original suggestion from Vrain (shout out to you man for starting this whole thread :), aiding in Regen, while the Bonus of the Assaults makes them the best slayer, and logis the best healers Scouts- Bonuses to EWAR and stealth Some feel the HP buff is nice, but that the bonuses still have to be good. Come later, added Assault Capacity for grenades. Assaults lose current weapon bonus? (I'm not sure if this is what people wanted...) It shouldn't be a direct bonus to damage, that is something that needs to be present to differentiate commandos and assaults - commando's get the damage bonus that allows them to pack around specialist / av weapons (amarr need an av weapon, swarm launcher needs to be re-flagged as hybrid type damage so caldari get their damage bonus to it, and breach mass driver needs to be converted to an av weapon). It should be something that improves weapon performance though (amarr assault bonus is a perfect example, more shots out of SCR before overheat, more total damage out of laser rifle before overheat). I dislike direct bonuses to damage, I love bonuses to weapon performance. The gallente assault bonus is actually also an amazing bonus in this regard too, as makes burst and tac ar's really really good in terms of hipfire (when combined with sharpshooter and the gal assault bonuses). Once the HP bonuses are present the actual weapon performance buffs should be the thing that screams at you "You use this suit to kill everything forever" whether it be more shots per magazine, less recoil, tighter fire spread etc. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 324	Posted - 2014.07.17 22:43:00 - [109] - Quote This is from an earlier post I made, but I think the weapon bonuses are still viable. The Problem: It has no true niche. This is a slaying game, so I agree that the Assault should slay the best. Its roles have already been taken up to aid in that, and we shouldn't thinking of changing suit bonuses, that'd warrant a respec. My proposition: As someone in Adam of Eve's General Discussions post stated- The Assault should get a bonus to total ammo, AND maximum range. However, in Pokey Dravon's post, he pointed out most combat happens well with the optimals of guns. I propose that the Assault gets a bonus to clip size (similar to the Min Assault and Amarr Bonuses), as well as a secondary sidearm bonus, with the overarching role bonus of an Assault being Less CPU and PG need for weapons. Reasoning: The Assault, in my eyes, should be able to hold an enemy at bay long enough for reinforcements should they need it. The Scouts are faster, they go ahead, let the Assaults know where the action is at, start killing with them. The Assaults give extra firepower to scouts. As I've stated before: Sentinels kill everything, Assaults kill Scouts, Scouts kill Logis, Commandos everything but Sentinels. By giving Assaults a bonus to clip size, they can continue to fire long past when their enemy has reloaded, giving an inadvertent DPS bonus without taking from a Commando, which loads faster and kills quicker. Should an Assault and Commando face, the Commando should win because it does more DPS per bullet than the Assault. The Assault speed buff will aid in making it more appealing as well. HP is for the Commando Possible bonuses: Minmatar Assault (keep current, extend it to the Flaylock like before. It is an explosive. I'd say give it to the Mass Driver too, but we can discuss that Big smile) Amarr Assault (Keep current. Don't know if you guys would like anything else. Perhaps an extended magazine for the Carthum Assault? I have no idea what to do with your pistol, the thing is perfect. Gallente Assault (Make it a ROF bonus so the Assault Rifle is the CQC master. To not be handicapped by the ROF increase, it also gets slightly greater ammo, allowing it to suppress more efficiently. At proto, a 20% increase would give a Duvolle 72 rounds, ROF slightly less than that of a Balacs (a bonus of around 1% per level brings it to 840 rpm. In the hands of a Proto Assault however, a Balacs has a rate of fire of around 901 rpm while the Krins has an ammo capacity of 108Lol It also has a Cooldown bonus for the Side-Arms, making the Ion Pistol seize time fire less. Caldari Assault (A harder one. A clip size bonus to the Rail Rifle may make it overpowered, but then again for suppression, that is what a Caldari Assault should do. The Charge-Up bonus to should extend to the Bolt Pistol and Magsec, giving them a ROF increase as well. In conclusion: The Assault needs to be a suppressive artist, or a bonified killer against Logis, Scouts, and other Assaults. The HMG DPS still would mow them down, as would speccing fully into any Commando to get the DPS of that rifle. Some of these buffs are damage buffs, but that is why I'm asking the community to fine tune and add other ideas. Thank you 07 From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2384	Posted - 2014.07.17 23:00:00 - [110] - Quote You know I've been debating with people about if Assaults should get a direct damage bonus. People seem really uneasy about boosting damage directly, however the more I think about it, Sentinels simply boost their defense directly. The difference of course is that Sentinels resists specific damage types, so if we boost specific damage types for the Assault (ie their racial weapons) I don't really think its a problem. If anything it helps the Assaults counter the Sentinel bonus. An alteration of this could of course be a damage bonus for their racial weapon, but only against shields or armor, depending on the race (much like the proficiency bonus) which people may be more comfortable with. That being said the idea of an increased magazine/ammo capacity for Commandos is growing on me. I'm fine with the loss of the 10% damage buff in exchange for the magazine bonus, however I firmly beleive the Commando should retain the reload bonus. Large magazine as well as quick reloads would make the Commando the king of sustained fire, allowing minimal downtime for constant suppressive fire. In addition, AV Weapons which are typically long reload and small magazines, would benefit greatly from magazine and reload bonuses. This paired with the fact that the Commandos carry two light weapons, 1 for personal defense and 1 for AV, would make them exceptionally good Light AV specialists. The biggest issue with this however comes down to the Amarr. Since the duration that Amarr weapons can fire is directly linked to heat buildup, the Amarr Commando would gain little from a bigger magazine, as it would need to stop shooting in order to let the weapon cool down first before continuing to fire. The only reasonable way to really counter this is to give them heat reduction, but since that's going to the Assault...it's a messy problem. You could consider shortened seize delay and reduced feedback damage, which could get interesting. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3913	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:48:00 - [111] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: That being said the idea of an increased magazine/ammo capacity for Commandos is growing on me. ... The biggest issue with this however comes down to the Amarr. Since the duration that Amarr weapons can fire is directly linked to heat buildup, the Amarr Commando would gain little from a bigger magazine, as it would need to stop shooting in order to let the weapon cool down first before continuing to fire. The only reasonable way to really counter this is to give them heat reduction, but since that's going to the Assault...it's a messy problem. You could consider shortened seize delay and reduced feedback damage, which could get interesting. This is just off the top of my head, so I have not thought it through very much, but what if instead of locking up when the Scrambler Rifle or Laser Rifle overheats, the Ammar Commando just keeps getting increasing amounts of heat damage as it continues firing past overheat? Then the Amarr Commando can choose to sacrifice some of its health pool to get the kill before it stops firing and lets the rifle cool off. You could say that the Amarr Commando removes the safeties. Can fire longer, at the risk of killing himself. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2385	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:29:00 - [112] - Quote Im curious if seize time is a variable that can be modified. I wonder what would happen if you drastically lowered feedback damage and then reduced seize time to zero. That might give the effect you're talking about which would be sweet, but the mechanic may not be hot fixable. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2168	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:47:00 - [113] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: I am not in favor of assaults gaining a second equipment slot at all, as it may have the side effect of making them a little too self-sufficient (or at least a lot more self-sufficient than other roles). Have to agree with this, tho it would work well on my minnie assault. Would hit the Logi population hard and packs of protoassault slayers would be running around pubs with needles and ammo/rep hives and maybe a token Logi, but only if the logi could keep up with the pack. PSN: RationalSpark
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 209	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:05:00 - [114] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I think fixing assaults is really just about fixing scouts and Logis. Certain logis should not be as combat viable as an assault variant like the Amarr Logi. It, just like in keeping with the standard of racial parity, should be the slowest but highest ehp in respect to logis. Balance issues seem to arise wherever the standard conventions have been discarded for whatever reason/s. The suits should not vary greatly except in their class and race but should be comparable across these borders. Biggest issue with assault vs. scout is that scouts need to be scouts. An idea that has been presented by others and I too would back is that the scouts should be discouraged from shield/armor stacking and encouraged to stack "scout-like" modules, IE dampeners, codebreakers, kincats, etc. essentially the utility modules that will boost a scouts effectiveness in Ewar and flanking/outmaneuvering. The issue right now is that a scout can brick tank like an assault while having a smaller frame and faster movement speed. If Logis are altered to be across the board have no sidearm and have less e/hp and speed (but only slightly) as well as scouts be less optimal at tanking then assaults will reprise their role. I don't mention heavies because they are and have been point defense and from what I've seen in public matches, its not the fault of the game as much as the meta-game that players run into the meat grinder. powerful weapons do exist (REs, PLCs, Mass Drivers, Forge guns) that can hammer a cluster of heavies into extinction just players don't exercise tactical awareness often and just spam a Rifle in CQC which is hard countered by a brick tanked heavy with a HMG.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2168	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:22:00 - [115] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: My answer is buff by 2-3%/lvl of assault suit operation all the skill/abilities that allow an assault to apply damage: sprint speed, range, dispersion, reload, shield/armor recovery rate & delay, ammo capacity, melee, resupply rate, respawn time. First off, I really like the idea in general. I think you're right that by buffing a lot of smaller, 'soft' skills the Assault will become more generalist and adaptive. Now, for the bonuses I think we need to cull your list a little: Sprint speed: yep, sounds good. Means at walking speed Scouts still have an advantage but Assaults can push the envelope when running. Range: no no no, we had this issue in Chromosome (or somewhere early, I forget) where vets would just win all of their fights because of superior range. Now we have effective/optimals, that would be less clear cut, but it would also be dangerous: we'd likely see all kinds of Assaults running Rail Rifles dues to their range extension. Dispersion: seems reasonable enough. Reload: yeah, can get behind that. Less than the Commando bonus but still worthwhile. Shield/Armour recovery: I think this should be separated to being a racial bonus: Minmatar getting improved Shield regen times; Gallente getting rep rate; Caldari getting a minor shield resistance (1%/level to all, or specific types); Amarr getting a minor armour resistance (1%/level to all, or specific types.) All would still get a regenerative bonus but be racially derived. Ammo capacity: if we're talking reserve, I agree. Melee: meh, I think you could add it and it would rarely ever be seen anyway! Resupply rate: interesting, though wouldn't it be more o a Logi bonus, rather than someone gathering ammo faster? Respawn rate: also interesting. Since this is not the bonus alone, I like it. It means that if you clear an area, the first enemies you are likely to see again will be Assaults. Overall, +1. +1 Kellas, this is much better than the original version. Agree 100% on the range. Firstly not required for assaulting objectives and secondly because it would mess with our current weapon balance - prolly any suit with a range bonus would get gamed hard to exploit range advantages for high alpha weapons, not to mention the bricked Assaults/RRs, as you point out. Like the racialization of the recovery rates, adds tactical depth and flavour to the race wars. Agree on the melee, not a good fit for the role. Resupply rate: The thinking was this would get Assaults back into the fray sooner and able to keep the pressure on. Respawn rate: Same motivation as above. Coupled with the sprint bonus gets them back to the front lines faster. The ultimate version of the respawn/sprint is, ofc, the needle, but not when under fire(it would be if we had the deployable shield, tho ;). PSN: RationalSpark
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 911	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:41:00 - [116] - Quote If assaults are going to get an extra equipment slot (which is stupid). Logis should get a 5%-25% bonus increase per level to their racial equipment. Logis currently have to compete with scouts,if they're going to compete with assaults (equipment wise) logistics should have an overwhelming advantage,seeing as they sacrifice stats and a weapon for it.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 41	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:47:00 - [117] - Quote Meee One wrote: If assaults are going to get an extra equipment slot (which is stupid). Logis should get a 5%-25% bonus increase per level to their racial equipment. Logis currently have to compete with scouts,if they're going to compete with assaults (equipment wise) logistics should have an overwhelming advantage,seeing as they sacrifice stats and a weapon for it. If assault get an other equipment, it will be just for ADV and PRO, but on PRO, the logi has (will have) 4 equipment... I don't understand why should assaults get an other equipment ? that's not OUR job.. If you want to add something, add Stamina, speed, regen, more PG/CPU (10% isn't enought)
Strker Remorse OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 25	Posted - 2014.07.18 12:09:00 - [118] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. What a good idea! "That bastards been sitting up in the rocks all morning just waiting for two idiots to line up in his sights."
xAckie Ghost. Mob 429	Posted - 2014.07.18 12:57:00 - [119] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: My statement was not based on current state. Assault should be made to be better at applying DPS and having fast regen with a reasonable HP buffer. Adding an equipment slot is not the correct way to fix Assault suits. sure. But it is where we are at. Scouts shouldnt have 2 slots either - and i dont see this changing ever.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 79	Posted - 2014.07.18 12:59:00 - [120] - Quote considering the role assault is providing suppressive fire until heavy is in optimal firing range why not give them 5-10% clip size per level (percentage up for debate) for example duvolle ar from 60 to 75 at 5%(lvl 5) and if 10% from 60 to 90. as secondary bonus a shield regen increase or shield regen delay decrease for cal/minmater. and a armor regen/buff for amarr/gallente. to further distinguish the races of assault a bonus to preferred weapon such as amarr heat build up per level , caldari rof, gallente reload speed(if you have better idea for gallente weapon bonus please say so) , minmater splash radius or dps here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"

Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 421	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:13:00 - [121] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. How will it help us with... CCP Rattati wrote: Killin' folks I can theoretically kill lots with a armor hive and an ammo hive... So are you confirming that the role of Assault suits is pure slaying, Rattati? Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 785	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:32:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I do not think assaults should have any equipment slots. By removing the equipment slot pg/cpu can be bufffed or nerfed without fear of proto equipment being used to run them as a super specialized logi. People can already run scouts or logis to spam equipment, assaults should be full on assaults. The only way to do this and separate it from the commando is with good bonuses. The Amarr for example receives a true DPS bonus and makes a great weapon even better. My proposal: Less of an hp buff and more of a balanced buff between hp and speed. Standardized slot matrix is pretty good from what I have seen. Remove equipment slot from all assaults. (balancing via pg/cpu becomes easier as well) Give all of them a DPS based bonus like the Amarr has.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 80	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:33:00 - [123] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I do not think assaults should have any equipment slots. By removing the equipment slot pg/cpu can be bufffed or nerfed without fear of proto equipment being used to run them as a super specialized logi. People can already run scouts or logis to spam equipment, assaults should be full on assaults. The only way to do this and separate it from the commando is with good bonuses. The Amarr for example receives a true DPS bonus and makes a great weapon even better. My proposal: Less of an hp buff and more of a balanced buff between hp and speed. Standardized slot matrix is pretty good from what I have seen. Remove equipment slot from all assaults. (balancing via pg/cpu becomes easier as well) Give all of them a DPS based bonus like the Amarr has. amarr is heat build up reduction not dps dumb dumb here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4504	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:52:00 - [124] - Quote Max stamina and stamina regen seem to be solid choices for Assault. Assault capable of prolonged attacks and manouvering in and out of optimal range, whilst scouts are quicker. Idea came up in another thread and I quite like it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 914	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:31:00 - [125] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Max stamina and stamina regen seem to be solid choices for Assault. Assault capable of prolonged attacks and manouvering in and out of optimal range, whilst scouts are quicker. Idea came up in another thread and I quite like it. So logistics won't be able to flee from any suit in the game...wow. So,about that 10%-25% increase per level in logistics equipment bonuses... (yes,i raised it) I was serious...if assaults get a 2nd equipment logistics better get something extra or this'll be another punch to the gut for the logistics class.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4511	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:35:00 - [126] - Quote 2nd equipment is no longer on the table for Assaults. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 785	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:37:00 - [127] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: deezy dabest wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Honest question, what about another equipment slot? Logis still have an advantage due to fitting bonus and cloaky scouts need one for the cloak. I do not think assaults should have any equipment slots. By removing the equipment slot pg/cpu can be bufffed or nerfed without fear of proto equipment being used to run them as a super specialized logi. People can already run scouts or logis to spam equipment, assaults should be full on assaults. The only way to do this and separate it from the commando is with good bonuses. The Amarr for example receives a true DPS bonus and makes a great weapon even better. My proposal: Less of an hp buff and more of a balanced buff between hp and speed. Standardized slot matrix is pretty good from what I have seen. Remove equipment slot from all assaults. (balancing via pg/cpu becomes easier as well) Give all of them a DPS based bonus like the Amarr has. amarr is heat build up reduction not dps dumb dumb DPS over time is still DPS. Firing almost twice as many shots before overheat is definitely a DPS bonus. Specially when you consider that with no assault bonus you can overheat the gun in 2-3 seconds easily.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6356	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:11:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Max stamina and stamina regen seem to be solid choices for Assault. Assault capable of prolonged attacks and manouvering in and out of optimal range, whilst scouts are quicker. Idea came up in another thread and I quite like it. Meh... If I want more stamina, I fit a Cardiac Regulator. Just saying, there's not much "in and out" when it comes to close-combat (Gallente Assault). It's more like, in-and-killed-by-HMG Sentinel/Shotgun Scout. This isn't to say that it's a bad idea, just that it's a bad idea. Seems to me like adding more stamina/stamin regen is just trying to make up Assaults by making them more into Scouts. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
MINA Longstrike 1032	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:35:00 - [129] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Max stamina and stamina regen seem to be solid choices for Assault. Assault capable of prolonged attacks and manouvering in and out of optimal range, whilst scouts are quicker. Idea came up in another thread and I quite like it. We were talking more about max health and hitpoint regen, But I won't say no to stamina. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3812	Posted - 2014.07.19 03:25:00 - [130] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Max stamina and stamina regen seem to be solid choices for Assault. Assault capable of prolonged attacks and manouvering in and out of optimal range, whilst scouts are quicker. Idea came up in another thread and I quite like it. We were talking more about max health and hitpoint regen, But I won't say no to stamina. Yeah, hitpoint regen really seems like a solid move. But, a speed and especially stamina buff would also be needed to compete to an extent with scouts and better differentiate with the 2 heavy suits. Commando's have the vanilla DPS buff with high eHP. Take assaults, give them decent eHP but great regen, and obviously better speed, now you have a nice continuum from Assault -> Commando -> Sentinel. Assault being quicker suits ready for sustained combat and pushing objectives, Sentinels point defense, and commando's as a hybrid. @iKILLu osborne: Clearly you've never used an LR with an Amarr assault. The DPS a Viziam LR puts out with the max Amarr assault bonus is almost obscene. (But it's not, Ratatti..don't get any ideas...) (The godfather of tactical logistics)

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 330	Posted - 2014.07.19 03:37:00 - [131] - Quote We're talking about basically what was in the original proposal. Max Stamina was one of those. Whether it is fixed as a thing for Assaults or a bonus per level, I care not. But the generalist bonuses from Vrain's original post are mostly what we can agree on. Added grenade capacity (+2 in Delta), no second grenade slot Max Stamina and Increase to sprint as a flat increase, not as a bonus per level Spawn Timer Reduction compared to other suits, so that Assaults spawn in more quickly, aiding in the philosophy of throwing bodies in an attempt to break the enemy line/assaulting Possibly changing the Commando bonus from DPS to the Assault in an exchange for giving the Commando a bonus to clip size and total ammo capacity. The Commando keeps its reload bonus, making it a suppressive artist. I'm not a fan of this as the current Assault bonuses allow them to fire longer, which is somewhat like a DPS bonus. Further, Assaults will get to the battle before Commando, so what exactly is the Commando suppressing? However, Pokey Dravon made a good point about the AV weapons, so I'll throw my support in that proposal now that I think of it Assaults gain a flat bonus to HP, hopefully giving them a bit more edge or fairness against brick tanked scouts, our main bane. Anything I missed guys? From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 68	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:09:00 - [132] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: We're talking about basically what was in the original proposal. Max Stamina was one of those. Whether it is fixed as a thing for Assaults or a bonus per level, I care not. But the generalist bonuses from Vrain's original post are mostly what we can agree on. Added grenade capacity (+2 in Delta), no second grenade slot. useless, better off with better idea Max Stamina and Increase to sprint as a flat increase, not as a bonus per level. stamina, much prefer different thing Spawn Timer Reduction compared to other suits, so that Assaults spawn in more quickly, aiding in the philosophy of throwing bodies in an attempt to break the enemy line/assaulting. doubt it will happen Possibly changing the Commando bonus from DPS to the Assault in an exchange for giving the Commando a bonus to clip size and total ammo capacity. The Commando keeps its reload bonus, making it a suppressive artist. I'm not a fan of this as the current Assault bonuses allow them to fire longer, which is somewhat like a DPS bonus. Further, Assaults will get to the battle before Commando, so what exactly is the Commando suppressing? However, Pokey Dravon made a good point about the AV weapons, so I'll throw my support in that proposal now that I think of it Assaults gain a flat bonus to HP, hopefully giving them a bit more edge or fairness against brick tanked scouts, our main bane. Anything I missed guys? Yea, something better than running, no assault role should be based on just running, that's just a terribad idea, assaults need regen, more ammo for light weapons, etc. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 331	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:13:00 - [133] - Quote That's where the Max Stamina comes in play... From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 68	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:15:00 - [134] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: That's where the Max Stamina comes in play... No, we don't want stamina, we want hp, regen, dps, not something that belongs to scouts. How about buffing the biotics 3 bonuses from 1% oer level to 2% per level? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 331	Posted - 2014.07.19 04:28:00 - [135] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: That's where the Max Stamina comes in play... No, we don't want stamina, we want hp, regen, dps, not something that belongs to scouts. How about buffing the biotics 3 bonuses from 1% oer level to 2% per level? HOW IS THIS NOT WHAT SCOUTS GET?! We already know the Assault is getting a flat raise in Sprint Speed. Stamina just means they can run longer to chase down targets, jump over more railings, weave in and out more. Seriously that comment made no sense...Furthermore, in the post about 3 above, I stated that Regen and DPS is wanted. Thx for your time From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 916	Posted - 2014.07.19 11:07:00 - [136] - Quote i would suggest innate bonuses that can't be replicated. Just examples* Gal: 25% range increase -or- 5% range increase per level Cal: 25% kick reduction -or- 5% kick reduction per level Min: good as is Amarr: good as is These bonuses are focused on overcoming their racial weapons weakness. And they can be additional without removal of their current bonuses. Range makes the accuracy bonuses seem not so out of place. Kick...enables better accuracy to aid in reload killing.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 341	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:11:00 - [137] - Quote I can dig it From the Clone Wars I came. Here I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN Freedom aw8s


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