Dear players,

after thoroughly discussing with the scout community, these are our proposed changes.

EWAR Calculations

I have documented all the necessary and relevant scenarios, I hope. At the top of the document, I have collected the key numbers and tried to put them into perspective.

Galogi focused scanner gets the highest range and precision possible, due to it being 1) active, 2) narrow and 3) having a limited duration. This helps establish boundaries that scouts need to live within.

That said, by a combination of racial bonuses and dedication of slots

All scouts can have similar range, 76m to 91, under the Focused at 100m. This is under review, and I am looking at reducing Range amplifiers to 30% instead of the current 45%.

All scouts can get under the focused scan dB by using a cloak, exception Gallente not needing cloak.

All scouts can get under the best passive scan dB by using 2 dampeners and cloak or 3 dampeners.

Best passive at 2 precision modules is beaten by best dampener at 2 dampening modules.

Minmatar get a small PG boost, and all scouts can utilize a very slight PG reduction of KinCats andCodebreakers, possibly Nova Knifes.

Nova Knifes will get increased Aim Adhesion, making hit detection work a little better in close quarters, a damage boost 120/160/200 and possibly a little increase in aim, 2.00m to 2.25m OR 2.50m

This does not require Codebreakers to be in high, so don't assume that is the case.

Please keep your comments civil and on topic. Changing bonuses to module efficacy or other ideas of the sort are not on the table for now.

If you are changing what dropsuit actually do you are going to have to offer a suit respect. I know I wouldn't of ever skilled into Amarr Logi if it didn't have a sidearm, or caldari scout if it didn't have a precision bonus. We are talking about almost 3mil SP for each of these suits. If that happens I am fine with it.

what are you going to do about how far they can toss remotes?

keep in mind with how hard they are to see already and how high they can jump and how fast they are, tossing remotes 10 meters almost undetected makes them OP...

so they either need to be more easily detectable or the Frisbee mechanic needs a hard cap on how far they can be thrown.

Presently ...
Extreme precision is required of the CalScout to pickup the GalScout.
Extreme dampening is required of the GalScout to hide from the CalScout.

The values you see are intended to draw toward the middle opposing extremes. These changes will [hopefully] make for better interplay and increased loadout variety among all four Scouts. Many of us are optimistic.

The big unknown in all of this is the GalLogi.

Nope. Min scout continues to have no eWar



I really think a bonus to cloak dampening would be in order for the min scout

Cloak + one damp hides from passives

Cloak + two damps hides from gallogi focused

Anyone see a problem with this?

Don't get me wrong; your concerns are absolutely warranted and valid. Many of us have previously shared these concerns; some of us likely still do. We've been talking about this stuff for months ... how to "fix" Scout problems ... and we've come to recognize that there is no perfect solution. Rattati's proposal is as good as anything we've come up with to date; it addresses the majority of our core concerns and may bring our FotM to a welcome end.

I say we give it a shot and hope for best.

Worst case scenario, Scouts get crushed by better Assaults, Logi permascan, and endless Heavy spam.
Welcome back to Hard Mode :-)

@ CCP Rattati

One more thing after spend sometime stare at your EWAR table. Min scout still look less attractive even for speed hacking propose when compare to Gal scout.

*Gal need only 2 Damp + cloak to stay invisible from anyone. That means Adv Gal will have 1 L left to fit codebreak (25% match Min bonus) or whatever they want, and they also have inner rep + 2 H for fit tank.

*Adv Min have only 2 L. Can hide from other scout with 2 damp but not focus scan. No inner rep and no slot to fit codebreak.

*Proto Min will suffer the same, Improve from Adv but still lost to Gal. (3 Damp to be invisible and then ran out of slot)

Then why bother run Min? Even will Adv level, Gal have better chance to hack, survive, better potential and option. Only one reason I can think of choice Min over Gal is just for knifing. Even Min logo have better hacking speed on base stat (Min logi 1.2 / Min scout 1.1).


BTW, I'm still waiting for your answer for those questions.

...perhaps there could be pg reductions for codebreakers and kincats exclusively for Min Scouts?

Perhaps MinScouts should be renamed "Me Me Me" Scouts :-)

Everyone knows there's only 1 female DUST player that just happens to have lots of alts and good at using different accents.
Deal with it. People have been mixing up our three names for the past 8 months.

So, what's happening to minmatar scouts with this?

Currently, it seems like they're the only scouts without ewar bonuses, and that the other scouts will be able to fill the role of fast hackers.

If you are routinely getting killed by killer frisbee's, then you REALLY need to invest in some situational awareness.

REs are equipment - they fit equipment slots. They should be placed, not thrown. If they are to be thrown like grenades, they should be moved to the grenade slot.

No he is right. RE's are NOT supposed to be throwable. They are supposed to be a charge that you SET on the ground/wall/vehicle/ceiling/etc and then leave in place. NOT a grenade!!!!

But that is also off topic...

MinScout no haz ewar?

Are we still ignoring that shots can be fired from cloak? This was supposed to be fixed in alpha I believe?

So much effort and time spent on scouts and we can't fix this one broken mechanic that was already discussed in great detail, and was promised even before cloaks came out that they would not be able to shoot from cloak?

The rest of these mechanics are nice but the huge elephant in the room is the cheapness of an alpha cloaked first shot

It really makes this game cheesy

Throw an RE, then throw a grenade. You will see a difference. The comparisons need to stop.

So you admit that an RE can be thrown? At least admission of the problem is the first step towards fixing it. ;)

So you admit that an RE can be thrown? At least admission of the problem is the first step towards fixing it. ;)

No he is right. RE's are NOT supposed to be throwable. They are supposed to be a charge that you SET on the ground/wall/vehicle/ceiling/etc and then leave in place. NOT a grenade!!!!

But that is also off topic...

This has always been the argument for the Min, and I completely agree with you...perhaps there could be pg reductions for codebreakers and kincats exclusively for Min Scouts?

Throw an RE, then throw a grenade. You will see a difference. The comparisons need to stop.

If we're here to talk about problems, why not talk about Heavy spam?

Remote Explosive usage is causally related to a steep increase in Heavy population, their resistance to locus grenades, and the new-found tendency of their teammates to "cluster" about them (and their overly effective HMGs). The ability to toss an RE a few feet is not the reason why Ambush has degraded to "Follow the Heavy".

I, for one, do not have an issue with REs being used. However, I do have an issue with their being thrown as far as they are.

Incidentally, last time I checked, proximity mines didn't get thrown anywhere near as far as remote explosives. Perhaps someone could go in-game and check?

"Throw" an Uplink, then throw an RE. You will see a difference. Both are EQUIPMENT. Explain.

If you want to talk about problems then talk about fixing them, not their side effects.

I, for one, do not have an issue with REs being used. However, I do have an issue with their being thrown as far as they are. As a Logi-Bro, my awareness is focused on watching my squad's backs. (If only more people watched the Logi's back.) When I am killed by REs, it is usually from a 10m-15m distance - rarely from under 10m and occasionally from 30m+ (I'm guessing those are dropped from buildings/towers). Those are grenade distances.