DUST Search - Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - Scout and EWAR changes

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

bogeyman m wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Dear players,

after thoroughly discussing with the scout community, these are our proposed changes.

EWAR Calculations

I have documented all the necessary and relevant scenarios, I hope. At the top of the document, I have collected the key numbers and tried to put them into perspective.

Galogi focused scanner gets the highest range and precision possible, due to it being 1) active, 2) narrow and 3) having a limited duration. This helps establish boundaries that scouts need to live within.

That said, by a combination of racial bonuses and dedication of slots

All scouts can have similar range, 76m to 91, under the Focused at 100m. This is under review, and I am looking at reducing Range amplifiers to 30% instead of the current 45%.

All scouts can get under the focused scan dB by using a cloak, exception Gallente not needing cloak.

All scouts can get under the best passive scan dB by using 2 dampeners and cloak or 3 dampeners.

Best passive at 2 precision modules is beaten by best dampener at 2 dampening modules.

Minmatar get a small PG boost, and all scouts can utilize a very slight PG reduction of KinCats andCodebreakers, possibly Nova Knifes.

Nova Knifes will get increased Aim Adhesion, making hit detection work a little better in close quarters, a damage boost 120/160/200 and possibly a little increase in aim, 2.00m to 2.25m OR 2.50m

This does not require Codebreakers to be in high, so don't assume that is the case.

Please keep your comments civil and on topic. Changing bonuses to module efficacy or other ideas of the sort are not on the table for now.

No ewar bonuses for MinScout?

Nope. Min scout continues to have no eWar

Roll

I really think a bonus to cloak dampening would be in order for the min scout

Cloak + one damp hides from passives

Cloak + two damps hides from gallogi focused

Anyone see a problem with this?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2465	Posted - 2014.07.15 09:41:00 - [61] - Quote My opinion is already known, this system let the door open, a scout (depending on its slot layout) can be very good in a EW stats that is not his bonus, this choice is not wrong and it balances the scout vs scout, but it's unfair with other frames, scout have the superiority in too many specs: EW, hacking, biotics, regen buffer. Sentinels have the superiority in eHP and this put them on a good playing field, but medium frame suits? A system with closed doors and different base stats would have been better imo, let the scout have the superiority only on one aspect of EW, be decent on another and have a medium frame suit value on the worst aspect of EW. Regarding codebreakers, I think they should move on high slot even if not necessary, only to help diversity, remember that not only scout can hack the objectives, i would be happy to put them on my high slot in my logi, right now i can choose between: shield (probably best choice) or nerfed damage mod (quite useless if you compare pg/cpu cost with advantages). PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communist who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1502	Posted - 2014.07.15 09:59:00 - [62] - Quote BlazeXYZ wrote: What is the purpose of giving the caldari scout 3% profile per level.? Because otherwise it would be pretty useless. Radius is unnecessary for most scouting roles, at least with the dampening there is some point to the caldari suit.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1502	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:19:00 - [63] - Quote I put 5.5 million SP into the two scout suits with the best scan (Caldari and Gallente). You are now proposing to ignore that investment and make the Amarr the only dedicated scan scout, when it previously had no scan focus. There was never any hint of this previously and it makes no sense from a lore perspective. It is a shameless PTW tactic - devalue SP investments so people have to buy boosters to get back the capability they used to have. But do you really think you'll keep players when you disregard their decisions? Persistence is supposed to be the selling point of the game FFS. I usually laugh at respec suggestions but there is strong case where you decide to reverse the effects of people's decisions, as here.
Macchi00 LORD-BRITISH 99	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:50:00 - [64] - Quote I think C-Scout scam radius should be 15%/Lv. 10% is too low. I love ForgeGun. I made ForgeGun montage in YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIhuGxfbjSQ
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 673	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:53:00 - [65] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: It has way too many advantages towards slaying for a scout. Scouts already have a small hitbox, lower profile, and faster movement speed. Allowing the Caldari one to also have the best regeneration of any suit, a huge amount of fitting space, and high HP values with barely any penalty is just silly. I'm also concerned about the fact that Scouts are receiving a significant buff here. Consider e.g. that Assaults will need two dampeners to hide from base Gallente and Amarr scans. This equals not using dampeners but rather using another Scout for your assaulting. One way to go about it is to adjust the Medium suit's scan stats too. I'll bring this up when we start discussing that topic. Otherwise I'm fine with the Scout-vs-Scout interaction here. Still hoping for that scan range reduction, preferably to base scan range rather than module efficacy. Powerful eWar modules are good because every eWar module equipped is one hp-module less. Powerful base stats are bad because they are a buff to brick tanked Scouts.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 282	Posted - 2014.07.15 11:04:00 - [66] - Quote 1) By Cloak, does that mean a proto one? 2) The Amarr can scan 18Db at 86 meters ( that is not SHORT range as I recall) 3) It takes 3x dampeners to hide from a Cal Scout with any additional precision....But my Min Assault only has 2 lows. And regardless of what people say, scouts ARE hard to kill, especially Caldari ones. I'm not saying they glitch or their hitbox is weird, but I can never seem to kill one looking at me. "Guess that's why I'm getting one on my alt" 4) This looks good sir. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1366	Posted - 2014.07.15 12:09:00 - [67] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, after thoroughly discussing with the scout community, these are our proposed changes. EWAR Calculations I have documented all the necessary and relevant scenarios, I hope. At the top of the document, I have collected the key numbers and tried to put them into perspective. Galogi focused scanner gets the highest range and precision possible, due to it being 1) active, 2) narrow and 3) having a limited duration. This helps establish boundaries that scouts need to live within. That said, by a combination of racial bonuses and dedication of slots All scouts can have similar range, 76m to 91, under the Focused at 100m. This is under review, and I am looking at reducing Range amplifiers to 30% instead of the current 45%. All scouts can get under the focused scan dB by using a cloak, exception Gallente not needing cloak. All scouts can get under the best passive scan dB by using 2 dampeners and cloak or 3 dampeners. Best passive at 2 precision modules is beaten by best dampener at 2 dampening modules. Minmatar get a small PG boost, and all scouts can utilize a very slight PG reduction of KinCats andCodebreakers, possibly Nova Knifes. Nova Knifes will get increased Aim Adhesion, making hit detection work a little better in close quarters, a damage boost 120/160/200 and possibly a little increase in aim, 2.00m to 2.25m OR 2.50m This does not require Codebreakers to be in high, so don't assume that is the case. Please keep your comments civil and on topic. Changing bonuses to module efficacy or other ideas of the sort are not on the table for now. No ewar bonuses for MinScout? Nope. Min scout continues to have no eWar I really think a bonus to cloak dampening would be in order for the min scout "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 174	Posted - 2014.07.15 12:14:00 - [68] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: It has way too many advantages towards slaying for a scout. Scouts already have a small hitbox, lower profile, and faster movement speed. Allowing the Caldari one to also have the best regeneration of any suit, a huge amount of fitting space, and high HP values with barely any penalty is just silly. I'm also concerned about the fact that Scouts are receiving a significant buff here. Consider e.g. that Assaults will need two dampeners to hide from base Gallente and Amarr scans. This equals not using dampeners but rather using another Scout for your assaulting. One way to go about it is to adjust the Medium suit's scan stats too. I'll bring this up when we start discussing that topic. Otherwise I'm fine with the Scout-vs-Scout interaction here. Still hoping for that scan range reduction, preferably to base scan range rather than module efficacy. Powerful eWar modules are good because every eWar module equipped is one hp-module less. Powerful base stats are bad because they are a buff to brick tanked Scouts. This is not really a buff to scouts as far as mediums are concerned. Yes there are now 2 scout types that will require more than one damp for meds to avoid, but since min scouts will be more common the total number of precision scouts on the field may well decrease. The Caldari scan range will be buffed which is a concern for med frames (personally I feel 7% rather than 10% would be more balanced but I don't want to complicate things) but the killer combination of a precision and range bonus together is gone (not on any suit), so you will probably be able to damp below them.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3539	Posted - 2014.07.15 13:10:00 - [69] - Quote WTF? You are giving caldari scouts scan range+dampening capabilitys? Havent you learned it from the past that this combination is what made the gallente scout ridiculous? They where capable to hide and prey on everything except other scout suits. Its even worse because caldai scouts are shield tanked and are quicker then a armor tanked gallente scout. And why are gallente and amarr sharing the same precision category? 2% precision bonus is just a wasted bonus i would rather keep my 1% scan range bonus or i would like to have 2-3% hacking speed from the minmatarr. To be honest you should give bonuses like this: -amarr: precision+stamina -caldari: range+stamina -gallante: dampening+hacking -minmatarr: hacking+knifes This way you wont create too many overlapping specialisations. Amarr would be good at finding cloaked/dampened players, caldari have their long range scans, gallente are still remaining the sneaking role with a minor hacking speed increase and the minnies slice people up and have super fast hacks. In my opinion because amarr+caldari are allies they should have 1 bonus which mimics the other race and that is stamina. The minmatarr would help out the gallente by providing hacking tech which makes more sense cause codebreakers are beeing moved to highslots.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2805	Posted - 2014.07.15 13:13:00 - [70] - Quote Brokerib wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Are we still ignoring that shots can be fired from cloak? This was supposed to be fixed in alpha I believe? So much effort and time spent on scouts and we can't fix this one broken mechanic that was already discussed in great detail, and was promised even before cloaks came out that they would not be able to shoot from cloak? The rest of these mechanics are nice but the huge elephant in the room is the cheapness of an alpha cloaked first shot It really makes this game cheesy Thought the de-cloak animation time has been reduced, mitigating the effectiveness of this? Still exists due to lag/rendering, but I haven't found this to be as much of an issue as it was originally. Obviously I still don't see scouts who de-cloak behind me, but I've noticed a diference with scrub scouts who attack head on. It was substantially reduced; if I recall correctly, decloak animation was accelerated. Can't speak for everyone else, but I've not been hit by an invisible shooter since Alpha. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2807	Posted - 2014.07.15 13:40:00 - [71] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: When I was told that Caldari and Gallente Logis would no longer the very best at everything, I asked myself "which suit will be capable of supporting my mad slayer skillz?" On respec, I put 5.5 million SP into the two scout suits with the best chance of becoming FoTM (Caldari and Gallente). You are now proposing to ignore that investment and make the Amarr and Minmatar Scouts useful, when they previously had no use whatsoever. There was never any hint that the four Scout suits might become balanced, and it makes no sense to make them balanced now. It is a shameless PTW tactic - take away one FoTM and its SP investment so people have to buy boosters to be first into the next FoTM. But do you really think players will continue to chase FoTM when you disregard their decisions? Persistence is supposed to be the selling point of the game. FFS give me back my Flaylock. I usually laugh at respec suggestions but there is strong case where you decide to move L33T slayers like me from one frame to another. FTFY Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2813	Posted - 2014.07.15 14:05:00 - [72] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: It has way too many advantages towards slaying for a scout. Scouts already have a small hitbox, lower profile, and faster movement speed. Allowing the Caldari one to also have the best regeneration of any suit, a huge amount of fitting space, and high HP values with barely any penalty is just silly. I'm also concerned about the fact that Scouts are receiving a significant buff here. Consider e.g. that Assaults will need two dampeners to hide from base Gallente and Amarr scans. This equals not using dampeners but rather using another Scout for your assaulting. One way to go about it is to adjust the Medium suit's scan stats too. I'll bring this up when we start discussing that topic. Otherwise I'm fine with the Scout-vs-Scout interaction here. Still hoping for that scan range reduction, preferably to base scan range rather than module efficacy. Powerful eWar modules are good because every eWar module equipped is one hp-module less. Powerful base stats are bad because they are a buff to brick tanked Scouts. The Scout Community is seeking a much needed fix to assault-lite and has high hopes of moving FoTM "slayers" away from our frames. Sorry "slayers" :-) We do not view Rattati's proposal as a buff to our class. We see this proposal as a first step in the right direction. Should "assault lite" remain a problem post Charlie, we hope that in Delta Rattati will point our racial bonuses toward EWAR modules. When we HP-tank and pretend to be Assault, we should leave behind some of our Scoutliness. We think that Rattati shares our goal of fixing "assault lite" and we are very much excited at the prospect of it being resolved son, if not this month in Charlie than perhaps next month in Delta. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2153	Posted - 2014.07.15 14:48:00 - [73] - Quote I'd say these proposed changes are close enough to balanced that we'll need to play it for a while before changing anything based on theorycrafting. For the average pub grunt, these changes will make no difference at all. For the pub scouts there are now interesting fitting choices to make and meaningful gameplay that stems from those choices. The one change i would want to see is something that would discourage Galogis using 4 proto focused scanners and hanging out at the Supply depot. Min can now play at the ewar game, but at considerable cost. Given their other bonuses it will prolly play out ok, but i find myself wishing for fuzzyier dots on the tacnet so that Min ewar could affect not scan detection, but positional error rate/magnitude. Now that would considerably increase the FUN a precision scout would have in choosing to hunt a NK minja ;) PSN: RationalSpark
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3452	Posted - 2014.07.15 14:49:00 - [74] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Shooing away a player who disagreed with you kinda [redacted] me off, especially coming from someone who said in the Dust-match that only the community's opinion should be taken into account... Ignoring that obvious attack on character, however, I'd like to know what you intend to do if anything about the "lacking" Gallente Logistics is changed to accommodate better bonuses. How unfortunate it would be, if after all this work, the Gallente Logistics was buffed. Though, I am glad that you see an obvious flaw in the Gal Logi/Amarr Scout balance... This is still just a game. Don't take things so seriously. Someone said Gal bonus was better than the Cal, Zaria corrected them informing that the bonus was the same. The only thing I disagreed with was the potency of the gal scout's skills. I'm talking to someone that's knows many personal things about me that have nothing to do with the game. It has more to do with the fact that I know Zaria understands that Logistics are actually lacking when it comes to the support role because they're so hyper-focused on a single equipment. She did a much better job articulating a nearly identical opinion I had on the current logi-bonuses back in 1.7 when 1.8 bonuses were being discussed. Charlie wants to make assaults better at Assault thing, the Logi should equally be improved at Support things Yeah, so my preferred way to improve a Logistics suit's ability to perform a support role is to give it the same bonuses the other suits have but not the full value. Pokey Dravon thinks along similar lines and has his dream-logi skills up actually having each Race with individual bonuses with different focuses but still being the best at their racial support equipment Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Personal Theme Song
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2817	Posted - 2014.07.15 14:56:00 - [75] - Quote @ Appia Aeon will not respect your ways until he is certain that you've grown a neckbeard. To give you pass simply because you're a female would be sexist. Good luck. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 126	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:47:00 - [76] - Quote What's EWAR?
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 628	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:51:00 - [77] - Quote Looking over the spreadsheet and something hit me: Gallente precision is essentially pointless - you're already scanning all Heavies, Logis and Assaults, unless massive sacrifices are made and you're not scanning any good (ie, EWar dampened Scouts who are evading their nemesis the GalLogi) so...why the hell have it? The precision is nigh useless and the Gallente have to make exactly the same amount of sacrifice as Caldari to dodge the GalLogi...which is eating Gallente primary tank, but not Caldari. At the same time, Caldari is getting a brilliant bonus that still applies against all of the medium/heavy frames (ie, spotting them from a million miles away) and still getting to dodge GalLogi scans with a small sacrifice (their secondary tank) while their precision, as a Scout, is sufficiently low to scan down medium/heavy frames all day long! What I'm trying to say is that GalScout precision is essentially pointless. Caldari profile? Fair enough, it lets them actually evade the GalLogi scans, so it's needed from a numerical standpoint. But the GalScout precision is doing nothing to help where it matters. At the highest level, the Gallente precision bonus is doing nothing to help it: it's not scanning down Scouts, because all are dampened and you're already scanning down all medium and heavy frames with two Precision Enhancers. Same thing could be said for the Amarr bonus, which is essentially getting negated by the GalLogi threat causing all Scouts to dodge the Amarr precision by association. So really, what is the point of the GalScout precision bonus? The bonus to profile means that it's no longer the best at dampening (because CalScout is the same: 2 damps and a cloak) and its precision does not help. At the end of the day the issue is this: Of the Gallente still has to make a reasonable sacrifice to evade scans (ie, pretty much the same as everyone else) and it's scans are weaker than 2/3 of the others...why use Gallente? They can all evade scans (perfectly fine, they're all Scouts) but Gallente still sacrifices just as much to do so, yet receives weaker bonuses, relative to the role they play. If Gallente could dodge all scans with 2 dampeners, then they'd be much more able to fit EWar to compensate for their unbonused elements. Alt of Halla Murr.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2827	Posted - 2014.07.15 15:58:00 - [78] - Quote Zindorak wrote: What's EWAR? Its when you take the Shields and Armor off your Scout suit and use other things. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3458	Posted - 2014.07.15 16:02:00 - [79] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Zindorak wrote: What's EWAR? Its when you peel the Shields and Armor off your Scout suit to use other things lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_warfare EWAR in DUST is really only a very small aspect of what it is IRL and what it is in EVE. For DUST players it is the attrition of modules to maintain tactical supremecy by locating enemies and remaining undetected outside of Line of Sight Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Personal Theme Song
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6309	Posted - 2014.07.15 16:14:00 - [80] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Yeah, so my preferred way to improve a Logistics suit's ability to perform a support role is to give it the same bonuses the other suits have but not the full value. Pokey Dravon thinks along similar lines and has his dream-logi skills up actually having each Race with individual bonuses with different focuses but still being the best at their racial support equipment EDIT: There we go, found it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit#gid=0 I disagree with the Assault part because I'm very against Assault bonuses being limited to just racial weapons, but like 85% on-board with the Logi stuff. Pretty sure all the candidates feel the same way, to some degree or another. It's one of the few things we're all fairly unanimous about, albeit I'm more of the opinion that it shouldn't be so broad spectrum. I think they'd do well with a secondary bonus alone. Adipem Nothi wrote: @ Appia Aeon will not respect your ways until he is certain that you've grown a neckbeard. To give you pass simply because you're a female would be sexist. Good luck. I won't respect anyone's ways until I'm certain they'll act professional and consistent. No-one gets a free pass on that. Albeit, the beard might help, but it'll never be as manly as mine. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3467	Posted - 2014.07.15 16:20:00 - [81] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Albeit, the beard might help, but it'll never be as manly as mine. For the record. Amadi's beard makes him look like he's one of the people from the History Channel's reality TV shows, like Swamp People or moonshiners. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Personal Theme Song
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6310	Posted - 2014.07.15 16:44:00 - [82] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Albeit, the beard might help, but it'll never be as manly as mine. For the record. Amadi's beard makes him look like he's one of the people from the History Channel's reality TV shows, like Swamp People or moonshiners. In my defense, I do live in Louisiana. But trust me when I say that I at least have a concept of basic algebra and the people from the History Channel reality shows are a shame amongst the bearded community. We've long since out-casted them. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2596	Posted - 2014.07.15 16:55:00 - [83] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: bogeyman m wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, after thoroughly discussing with the scout community, these are our proposed changes. EWAR Calculations I have documented all the necessary and relevant scenarios, I hope. At the top of the document, I have collected the key numbers and tried to put them into perspective. Galogi focused scanner gets the highest range and precision possible, due to it being 1) active, 2) narrow and 3) having a limited duration. This helps establish boundaries that scouts need to live within. That said, by a combination of racial bonuses and dedication of slots All scouts can have similar range, 76m to 91, under the Focused at 100m. This is under review, and I am looking at reducing Range amplifiers to 30% instead of the current 45%. All scouts can get under the focused scan dB by using a cloak, exception Gallente not needing cloak. All scouts can get under the best passive scan dB by using 2 dampeners and cloak or 3 dampeners. Best passive at 2 precision modules is beaten by best dampener at 2 dampening modules. Minmatar get a small PG boost, and all scouts can utilize a very slight PG reduction of KinCats andCodebreakers, possibly Nova Knifes. Nova Knifes will get increased Aim Adhesion, making hit detection work a little better in close quarters, a damage boost 120/160/200 and possibly a little increase in aim, 2.00m to 2.25m OR 2.50m This does not require Codebreakers to be in high, so don't assume that is the case. Please keep your comments civil and on topic. Changing bonuses to module efficacy or other ideas of the sort are not on the table for now. No ewar bonuses for MinScout? Nope. Min scout continues to have no eWar I really think a bonus to cloak dampening would be in order for the min scout Cloak + one damp hides from passives Cloak + two damps hides from gallogi focused Anyone see a problem with this? I don't see any problems with Charlie as Rattati has it. We can't have everything. Now that the other suits don't have a strangle hold on us, we can knife and hack like mofos. We don't need a 3rd option, especially if it is cloak dampening bonus to make the gal dampening less attractive. It will work out. Trust me. This is how a minja feels
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 528	Posted - 2014.07.15 17:15:00 - [84] - Quote I don't know anything about scanner gameplay, but how likely is it for a Gal Logi to pick up a dedicated scout, who's doing scout things and not being part of the main force, by using the scanner with the lowest cone of vision? I just wonder because it seems like this is so hard, that it would make more sense to have this scanner as the ultimate for picking up even max dampened and cloaked scouts. Also, any news on the scan sharing thing? Because its existence affects opinions on EWAR balance.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 628	Posted - 2014.07.15 17:20:00 - [85] - Quote Reposted after Aeon/Zaria's beard discussion... Looking over the spreadsheet and something hit me: Gallente precision is essentially pointless - you're already scanning all Heavies, Logis and Assaults, unless massive sacrifices are made and you're not scanning any good (ie, EWar dampened Scouts who are evading their nemesis the GalLogi) so...why the hell have it? The precision is nigh useless and the Gallente have to make exactly the same amount of sacrifice as Caldari to dodge the GalLogi...which is eating Gallente primary tank, but not Caldari. At the same time, Caldari is getting a brilliant bonus that still applies against all of the medium/heavy frames (ie, spotting them from a million miles away) and still getting to dodge GalLogi scans with a small sacrifice (their secondary tank) while their precision, as a Scout, is sufficiently low to scan down medium/heavy frames all day long! What I'm trying to say is that GalScout precision is essentially pointless. Caldari profile? Fair enough, it lets them actually evade the GalLogi scans, so it's needed from a numerical standpoint. But the GalScout precision is doing nothing to help where it matters. At the highest level, the Gallente precision bonus is doing nothing to help it: it's not scanning down Scouts, because all are dampened and you're already scanning down all medium and heavy frames with two Precision Enhancers. Same thing could be said for the Amarr bonus, which is essentially getting negated by the GalLogi threat causing all Scouts to dodge the Amarr precision by association. So really, what is the point of the GalScout precision bonus? The bonus to profile means that it's no longer the best at dampening (because CalScout is the same: 2 damps and a cloak) and its precision does not help. At the end of the day the issue is this: Of the Gallente still has to make a reasonable sacrifice to evade scans (ie, pretty much the same as everyone else) and it's scans are weaker than 2/3 of the others...why use Gallente? They can all evade scans (perfectly fine, they're all Scouts) but Gallente still sacrifices just as much to do so, yet receives weaker bonuses, relative to the role they play. If Gallente could dodge all scans with 2 dampeners, then they'd be much more able to fit EWar to compensate for their unbonused elements. Alt of Halla Murr.
Guiltless D667 44	Posted - 2014.07.15 17:49:00 - [86] - Quote Poor cal scout all that scan range but cant see any scouts A Strange Game.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2837	Posted - 2014.07.15 18:01:00 - [87] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Looking over the spreadsheet and something hit me: Gallente precision is essentially pointless - When you say pointless, do you mean +1% scan radius per level pointless or another kind of slightly better pointless? Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3472	Posted - 2014.07.15 18:06:00 - [88] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: . . . Zaria's beard . . . Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Personal Theme Song
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 701	Posted - 2014.07.15 18:08:00 - [89] - Quote I was all happy that this was going to be an Assault fix, but it seems it has turned into Scout tweaking. That is kind of disappointing that the Assault class is still useless. I was ready to finally use some Assault suits.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 628	Posted - 2014.07.15 18:27:00 - [90] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Looking over the spreadsheet and something hit me: Gallente precision is essentially pointless - When you say pointless, do you mean +1% scan radius per level pointless or another kind of slightly better pointless? We've taken to calling undampened Scouts "Assault Lite". With only one precision enhancer, the GalScout can join in on the hunting (at 26dB and above). Soon the CalScout's heavy burden of hunting "Assault Lite" will be shared by AM, CA, and GA. In my estimation, "progress" seems a more apt descriptor than "pointless". Yes, the precision bonus is better than the current, ****** range bonus. But by pointless I mean: it has zero impact on the uppermost level, and has next to no impact on any level where dampening is even vaguely used. The point is that the bonus to precision is small enough to not step on toes, but so small that it will not affect any Scout fitting a single dampener and any fitting more than one will easily evade the GalScout scans. More to the point, any going to the effort to avoid being scanned will likely fit two dampeners, rendering the GalScout bonus moot: you already scan mediums/heavies and you will not scan any Scoutly Scouts (ie, non-Brick Tanked Scouts.) So in essence, it is as useless as the range bonus we have now, because Scouts will be being pointed at EWar/dampening more heavily than before. Edit: a better summation of my point: The new GalScout precision bonus will not let you scan anything that you wouldn't scan before, because other changes make Scout dampening much more likely. Alt of Halla Murr.



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