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Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - Scout and EWAR changes

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2572	Posted - 2014.07.14 22:42:00 - [1] - Quote Looks good to me. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2572	Posted - 2014.07.14 22:47:00 - [2] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I would like to know the thinking behind giving Gallente precision? Gallente Logis have had precision to active scanners for awhile now. I don't think that is regarding gal scouts. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2572	Posted - 2014.07.14 22:57:00 - [3] - Quote Spademan wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I would like to know the thinking behind giving Gallente precision? Gallente Logis have had precision to active scanners for awhile now. I don't think that is regarding gal scouts. Scroll to the right and you'll find gallente scout, Bigger bonus to Dampening, smaller one to precision. Bastard! I just edited my post and you had to quote me. How dare you sir!! This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2580	Posted - 2014.07.15 00:25:00 - [4] - Quote SAIRAX SIS wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, after thoroughly discussing with the scout community, these are our proposed changes. EWAR Calculations Gal Scout unnecessary Precision bonus. Gal Scout needs Profile Dumpting -5%/lv only. they are Spy. arenot Recon. CCP Rattati wrote: Cat Merc wrote: So why are Gallente getting precision? Can someone explain to me the thinking here? What will its effects be? so it can get decent precision with their 2H slots, if that's what they want. Its a supplementary second skill to make sure all of them have two and to even the playing field. that's also why cal is getting a dampening bonus. As you can see, caldari also get a bit of dampening bonus. I think it gives them both a role while not getting too crazy or unbalanced. Plus like moody said, it gives them something to fill up all those slots with other than shield/armor tank. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2596	Posted - 2014.07.15 16:55:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: bogeyman m wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, after thoroughly discussing with the scout community, these are our proposed changes. EWAR Calculations I have documented all the necessary and relevant scenarios, I hope. At the top of the document, I have collected the key numbers and tried to put them into perspective. Galogi focused scanner gets the highest range and precision possible, due to it being 1) active, 2) narrow and 3) having a limited duration. This helps establish boundaries that scouts need to live within. That said, by a combination of racial bonuses and dedication of slots All scouts can have similar range, 76m to 91, under the Focused at 100m. This is under review, and I am looking at reducing Range amplifiers to 30% instead of the current 45%. All scouts can get under the focused scan dB by using a cloak, exception Gallente not needing cloak. All scouts can get under the best passive scan dB by using 2 dampeners and cloak or 3 dampeners. Best passive at 2 precision modules is beaten by best dampener at 2 dampening modules. Minmatar get a small PG boost, and all scouts can utilize a very slight PG reduction of KinCats andCodebreakers, possibly Nova Knifes. Nova Knifes will get increased Aim Adhesion, making hit detection work a little better in close quarters, a damage boost 120/160/200 and possibly a little increase in aim, 2.00m to 2.25m OR 2.50m This does not require Codebreakers to be in high, so don't assume that is the case. Please keep your comments civil and on topic. Changing bonuses to module efficacy or other ideas of the sort are not on the table for now. No ewar bonuses for MinScout? Nope. Min scout continues to have no eWar I really think a bonus to cloak dampening would be in order for the min scout Cloak + one damp hides from passives Cloak + two damps hides from gallogi focused Anyone see a problem with this? I don't see any problems with Charlie as Rattati has it. We can't have everything. Now that the other suits don't have a strangle hold on us, we can knife and hack like mofos. We don't need a 3rd option, especially if it is cloak dampening bonus to make the gal dampening less attractive. It will work out. Trust me. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2603	Posted - 2014.07.15 19:21:00 - [6] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Evidently few agree with me. Don't get me wrong; your concerns are absolutely warranted and valid. Many of us have previously shared these concerns; some of us likely still do. We've been talking about this stuff for months ... how to "fix" Scout problems ... and we've come to recognize that there is no perfect solution. Rattati's proposal is as good as anything we've come up with to date; it addresses the majority of our core concerns and may bring our FotM to a welcome end. I say we give it a shot and hope for best. Worst case scenario, Scouts get crushed by better Assaults, Logi permascan, and endless Heavy spam. Welcome back to Hard Mode :-) Gal scouts aren't given precision to be scout hunters, they are given precision to keep undampened scouts or mediums under control. Amarr scouts are there to make sure scouts are really dampened. Gal Logi scanners are there to make sure scouts are max dampened and carrying a cloak. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2603	Posted - 2014.07.15 19:25:00 - [7] - Quote RedPencil wrote: @ CCP Rattati One more thing after spend sometime stare at your EWAR table. Min scout still look less attractive even for speed hacking propose when compare to Gal scout. Gal need only 2 Damp + cloak to stay invisible from anyone. That means Adv Gal will have 1 L left to fit codebreak (25% match Min bonus) or whatever they want, and they also have inner rep + 2 H for fit tank. Adv Min have only 2 L. Can hide from other scout with 2 damp but not focus scan. No inner rep and no slot to fit codebreak. *Proto Min will suffer the same, Improve from Adv but still lost to Gal. (3 Damp to be invisible and then ran out of slot) Then why bother run Min? Even will Adv level, Gal have better chance to hack, survive, better potential and option. Only one reason I can think of choice Min over Gal is just for knifing. Even Min logo have better hacking speed on base stat (Min logi 1.2 / Min scout 1.1). BTW, I'm still waiting for your answer for those questions. Good idea to look out for. Someone should look up the numbers. I would also suggest that maybe the Gal might not have the fitting capability to run all that, but I can't say for certain. It is a good point, and someone with better knowledge of the numbers should double check. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2674	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:52:00 - [8] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: So, what's happening to minmatar scouts with this? Currently, it seems like they're the only scouts without ewar bonuses, and that the other scouts will be able to fill the role of fast hackers. From what I am reading on the spreadsheet: Ewar changes to the other scouts will enable the Minmatar to dampen enough to be invisible and do some hacking and knifing that since Alpha was difficult thanks to shared scanning and inability to beat Cal precision. As far as the being able to hack better, I am hoping that if they are, that they have to sacrifice all tank and dampening to do so, but it is hard to tell at this point. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2674	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:58:00 - [9] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: what are you going to do about how far they can toss remotes? keep in mind with how hard they are to see already and how high they can jump and how fast they are, tossing remotes 10 meters almost undetected makes them OP... so they either need to be more easily detectable or the Frisbee mechanic needs a hard cap on how far they can be thrown. If you are routinely getting killed by killer frisbee's, then you REALLY need to invest in some situational awareness. No he is right. RE's are NOT supposed to be throwable. They are supposed to be a charge that you SET on the ground/wall/vehicle/ceiling/etc and then leave in place. NOT a grenade!!!! But that is also off topic... Throw an RE, then throw a grenade. You will see a difference. The comparisons need to stop. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2689	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:04:00 - [10] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: what are you going to do about how far they can toss remotes? keep in mind with how hard they are to see already and how high they can jump and how fast they are, tossing remotes 10 meters almost undetected makes them OP... so they either need to be more easily detectable or the Frisbee mechanic needs a hard cap on how far they can be thrown. If you are routinely getting killed by killer frisbee's, then you REALLY need to invest in some situational awareness. No he is right. RE's are NOT supposed to be throwable. They are supposed to be a charge that you SET on the ground/wall/vehicle/ceiling/etc and then leave in place. NOT a grenade!!!! But that is also off topic... Throw an RE, then throw a grenade. You will see a difference. The comparisons need to stop. So you admit that an RE can be thrown? At least admission of the problem is the first step towards fixing it. ;) It is insane to think that the distance with which an RE is thrown is a problem. I can't toss them on top of a roof, or over a wall. Man up, they already got a timer increase. I see too many good legit heavies that know how to deal with REs to think that this is a real issue. Its only the lazy fools who don't know how to adapt that seem to have a problem. This is how a minja feels

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2708	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:34:00 - [11] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: what are you going to do about how far they can toss remotes? keep in mind with how hard they are to see already and how high they can jump and how fast they are, tossing remotes 10 meters almost undetected makes them OP... so they either need to be more easily detectable or the Frisbee mechanic needs a hard cap on how far they can be thrown. If you are routinely getting killed by killer frisbee's, then you REALLY need to invest in some situational awareness. No he is right. RE's are NOT supposed to be throwable. They are supposed to be a charge that you SET on the ground/wall/vehicle/ceiling/etc and then leave in place. NOT a grenade!!!! But that is also off topic... Throw an RE, then throw a grenade. You will see a difference. The comparisons need to stop. "Throw" an Uplink, then throw an RE. You will see a difference. Both are EQUIPMENT. Explain. Throw an Uplink, then throw an Injector. Both are EQUIPMENT. Explain. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2724	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:22:00 - [12] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: One Eyed King wrote: bogeyman m wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Throw an RE, then throw a grenade. You will see a difference. The comparisons need to stop. "Throw" an Uplink, then throw an RE. You will see a difference. Both are EQUIPMENT. Explain. Throw an Uplink, then throw an Injector. Both are EQUIPMENT. Explain. One is deployable. One is grafted to your hand. Exactly. Not all equipment is the same! So stop comparing them when its convenient to your rationalizations and ignoring it when its inconvenient. REs are their own thing. They are not grenades, and they don't get thrown like grenades. They are not Uplinks, and are not thrown like Uplinks. If you think they are being thrown too far, come up with a new, legitimate argument, because this one is dead and ineffective. This is how a minja feels
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2769	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:21:00 - [13] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Soooo, Gallente still has the lowest bonus? Meanwhile, the Caldari scout is getting the same damps as Gallente and and a 45 meter base scan range with skills... Gallente also get precision bonus. Not to mention, the dampening bonus offsets the 1LS Cal scouts look to be getting at Std and Adv tiers, and the 2 LS they are getting at proto. They are going to have a hard enough time dampening as it is. It is not like they got away without sacrifice or anything. This is how a minja feels

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