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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6300
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Posted - 2014.07.15 05:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Brokerib wrote:
Will have to see how the rise of the Gal logi pans out. It's possible that it will end up being exploited again (4 x proto focused scanners while standing next to a supply depo to swap out for another suit with 4 scanners), but it should only see limited play in Pubs. Should. Pro players love them crutches...
Don't think it's going to be doing much 'Rising', based on initial impression. Knowing in the back of the mind that any and all Scouts can get underneath it makes me question why I'd even bother in the first place when there are scanners that are better used for general purpose, in which case (if I were a ground commander) I'd just tell the Gal Logi to focus on supporting the team and use an Amarr Scout instead due to it being entirely passive, since we're taking the 'we'll fix it later' approach with squad-shared passive scans.
Everything should have it's counter but in this case, the Gallente Logistics has four counters on top of everything else on the battlefield, with one Scout being able to do his job with comparative - if not better - results until squad-shared vision is resolved.
The problem isn't changing: Either Scouts will always be able to be scanned, and feel like there's no point... or Scouts will always be able to NOT be scanned and there's no point. It's always going to be the same argument until we introduce a level of uncertainty into the mix by changing game mechanics, essentially doing it (in my opinion) the way it should have been done from the beginning.
Very early on, players were suggesting that you should be able to defeat the TacNet scan system -or- visual identification; one or the other. Now, we've decided to go against that ideal, suggesting there's more merit in designing directly to not only allow but encourage the use of both.
I understand the logic, I understand the premise - we want more variety in the Scout play without one being substantially better than the others because of it's low profile (Gallente) but in doing this, all Scouts now have an option to circumvent the scanning mechanic, leaving the Gallente Logi in a sort of limbo where his dedicated support role is lacking the capability to counter four entire suits - suits his entire role is designed to combat - while he has to worry about everything else on the battlefield.
A solution that could have potentially been easier to reach by changing the Gallente Logi and/or Active Scanners, though I suspect either change would only decrease the viability and usage of the Gallente Logi, by contrast.
Ghost Kaisar wrote:
It will force scouts to use max dampened fits. If you can PROTECT that logi, it will severely hamper offensive scout capabilities due to the lack of HP or role bonuses they get.
At that point, it becomes the scouts job to damp below scanning and attempt to take out the Logi. Teamwork will be a considerable help in this. Remember, we can still scan that logi with passives, so we will have to hunt him down and kill him wherever he is.
Gallente Logi has to make a lot of sacrifices to deter scouts what with Focused scanners having a 40s cooldown and a visibility of 8s. In order to make up for those numbers, you'd have to have four scanners and be constantly scanning - that's essentially taking the Logi out of the fight entirely and just turning him into a mobile radar; a liability. Even then, every single scout could just switch to their max EWAR fit to compensate and the sacrifice is meaningless.
But yanno, I'm willing to try anything once. Just don't think it's going to work out as well as you think it will 
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6302
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Posted - 2014.07.15 09:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:
off topic, wth though, why is the Cloak a Caldari module? It should be made by Duvolle Labs considering that Duvolle provided half the contributions for cloaking technology and the corp that provided the other half doesn't exist in DUST.
On the Range Amps though. Yeah, reducing the value of range amps really just hurts Logistics that want to use EWAR. For the EWAR Logi the change in scout profile going from 5 db difference to 10 db difference already hurt them from 1.7 to present. No need to hurt them further.
Now that that's over, shoo Zaria, shoo. leave the scout stuff to us. Go campaign for a better Logistics bonuses to be all encompassing instead of single racial EQ. Amarr Scout with 2 precision, 1 range, 3 plates, rep tool and allotek nanohive is still better than a support choice because it can use the hives and rep tool just as well as a Gal-Logi. That's not a fault of the scout but the fact that logistics are lacking.
I don't think the racial/corporation make of the equipment even matters. It's cosmetic and arbitrary by itself but beyond that there have been equipment pieces in the past (closed beta) that existed to give evidence to just how arbitrary it was. CreoDron Drop Uplinks, Viziam Repair Tools, etc. It's a title, a name-change, if anything.
As far as the range amps... I'd like to see the data as to how many Logistics actually use range amps for any reason other than it was the only thing they could fit at the time.
Shooing away a player who disagreed with you kinda [redacted] me off, especially coming from someone who said in the Dust-match that only the community's opinion should be taken into account... Ignoring that obvious attack on character, however, I'd like to know what you intend to do if anything about the "lacking" Gallente Logistics is changed to accommodate better bonuses. How unfortunate it would be, if after all this work, the Gallente Logistics was buffed. Though, I am glad that you see an obvious flaw in the Gal Logi/Amarr Scout balance...
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Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6309
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Yeah, so my preferred way to improve a Logistics suit's ability to perform a support role is to give it the same bonuses the other suits have but not the full value. Pokey Dravon thinks along similar lines and has his dream-logi skills up actually having each Race with individual bonuses with different focuses but still being the best at their racial support equipment EDIT: There we go, found it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit#gid=0 I disagree with the Assault part because I'm very against Assault bonuses being limited to just racial weapons, but like 85% on-board with the Logi stuff.
Pretty sure all the candidates feel the same way, to some degree or another. It's one of the few things we're all fairly unanimous about, albeit I'm more of the opinion that it shouldn't be so broad spectrum. I think they'd do well with a secondary bonus alone.
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Appia Aeon will not respect your ways until he is certain that you've grown a neckbeard. To give you pass simply because you're a female would be sexist. Good luck. 
I won't respect anyone's ways until I'm certain they'll act professional and consistent. No-one gets a free pass on that.
Albeit, the beard might help, but it'll never be as manly as mine.
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Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6310
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Albeit, the beard might help, but it'll never be as manly as mine.
For the record. Amadi's beard makes him look like he's one of the people from the History Channel's reality TV shows, like Swamp People or moonshiners.
In my defense, I do live in Louisiana.
But trust me when I say that I at least have a concept of basic algebra and the people from the History Channel reality shows are a shame amongst the bearded community. We've long since out-casted them.
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