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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3438
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Posted - 2014.07.15 06:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:. . .
If you do not run in organized squads, these changes will not affect you unless you are a scout, in which case you should see the logic in the proposal.
. . .
This is a pretty important aspect. If you're running 6-person squads there changes aren't going to change anything other than get a Gal-Logi to join your proto-bear squad.
Scouts will be the most affected by it because it reduces the Scout vs Scout attrition. The reduction in the power of constant scout scans means the number of dampeners needed dropped from 3 to 2, making the Min Scout viable in competitive/full-proto play. The Amarr Scout will keep things honest. So will the Gal, to a lesser extent, and the Cal can match the Gal but at a cost.
And what we mean when we say honest is that it behooves the scouts to run more than 1 dampener in the low slot preventing armor tanking.
Here ya go, kids. My pre-charlie Gal Logi. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/161/5442
Just to get under the proxi scanner the scout needs to have at least 2 dampeners or a proto dampener and proto cloak. it causes optimization attrition. There becomes 3 levels of what you need to do, (1) beat a gal proto scanner or Gal and Cal max precision (2) Beat an Amarr Scout and (3) beat the gal-focused scanner.
(1)
Gal Logi: 1 EQ at 35 CPU, 7PG; 21 dB
Gal scout: 2 HS at 26CPU each; 21 db
(2)
Cal Scout: 4 HS at 26CPU each; 20 dB
(3)
AM Scout: 2 HS at 26CPU each; 18 dB
(4)
Gal Logi: 1 EQ at 29CPU, 14PG
The first and second value a Min or Amarr needs to sacrifice 2 low slots
For the first value a Cal and Gal both need a complex dampener, but for the second they need either a second dampener or an ADV cloak.
For the third value the Min and Amarr need 2 dampeners and an ADV cloak.
The thrid value the Gal and Cal need 2 dampeners
For the fourth value the Min and Amarr need 3 dampeners and a PRO cloak
The fourth value the Cal needs 2 dampeners and a PRO cloak
The final value, the Gal Scout needs either 2 dampeners and a PRO cloak or 3 Dampeners.
The only real change here is that the Caldari can participate in Stealth instead of having both the weakest dampening and the strongest scanning.
Zaria Min Deir wrote:
Well, no, Caldari don't just get "a bit of a dampening bonus" they get the same exact dampening bonus as the Gallente (who were supposed to be the sneaky scouts). And the Gallente get a minor precision bonus that is overshadowed by the Amarr scout's better bonus and the Caldari scout's 4 high slots.
So, basically, the Gallente scout ends up being a lukewarm middleground with no particular role for itself.
Also, PLEASE don't nerf the Range Amplifiers, at least not drastically, before you see the effects of all these other changes.
You're definitely underestimating the freedom fitting that the Gal has to choose between 3 damps or a pro cloak. Even with a 75% reduction to fitting cost the Cloak has a greater PG cost than any other EQ (granted it is onle 1 PG over the next) it is also the third highest CPU costing EQ. Both of those simulateosly force you into giving up modules that you would otherwise use PRO versions for if you didn't want to run the cloak.
off topic, wth though, why is the Cloak a Caldari module? It should be made by Duvolle Labs considering that Duvolle provided half the contributions for cloaking technology and the corp that provided the other half doesn't exist in DUST.
On the Range Amps though. Yeah, reducing the value of range amps really just hurts Logistics that want to use EWAR. For the EWAR Logi the change in scout profile going from 5 db difference to 10 db difference already hurt them from 1.7 to present. No need to hurt them further.
Now that that's over, shoo Zaria, shoo. leave the scout stuff to us. Go campaign for a better Logistics bonuses to be all encompassing instead of single racial EQ
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3440
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Posted - 2014.07.15 07:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ramux PATAPON wrote:
Dampeners have stacking penalty?
It is not written in game explanations like KinCats, Stimulator or so.
Please answer my question
Do 1)Range Amplifiers,2)Profile Dampeners,3)Precision Enhancers has stacking penalties?
All of these have stacking penalties.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3452
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Posted - 2014.07.15 14:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Shooing away a player who disagreed with you kinda [redacted] me off, especially coming from someone who said in the Dust-match that only the community's opinion should be taken into account... Ignoring that obvious attack on character, however, I'd like to know what you intend to do if anything about the "lacking" Gallente Logistics is changed to accommodate better bonuses. How unfortunate it would be, if after all this work, the Gallente Logistics was buffed. Though, I am glad that you see an obvious flaw in the Gal Logi/Amarr Scout balance...
 This is still just a game. Don't take things so seriously.
Someone said Gal bonus was better than the Cal, Zaria corrected them informing that the bonus was the same. The only thing I disagreed with was the potency of the gal scout's skills. I'm talking to someone that's knows many personal things about me that have nothing to do with the game.
It has more to do with the fact that I know Zaria understands that Logistics are actually lacking when it comes to the support role because they're so hyper-focused on a single equipment. She did a much better job articulating a nearly identical opinion I had on the current logi-bonuses back in 1.7 when 1.8 bonuses were being discussed. Charlie wants to make assaults better at Assault thing, the Logi should equally be improved at Support things
Yeah, so my preferred way to improve a Logistics suit's ability to perform a support role is to give it the same bonuses the other suits have but not the full value. Pokey Dravon thinks along similar lines and has his dream-logi skills up actually having each Race with individual bonuses with different focuses but still being the best at their racial support equipment
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3458
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Zindorak wrote:What's EWAR? Its when you peel the Shields and Armor off your Scout suit to use other things
lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_warfare
EWAR in DUST is really only a very small aspect of what it is IRL and what it is in EVE. For DUST players it is the attrition of modules to maintain tactical supremecy by locating enemies and remaining undetected outside of Line of Sight
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3467
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Posted - 2014.07.15 16:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Albeit, the beard might help, but it'll never be as manly as mine.
For the record. Amadi's beard makes him look like he's one of the people from the History Channel's reality TV shows, like Swamp People or moonshiners.
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3472
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:. . . Zaria's beard . . .
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3472
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Posted - 2014.07.15 18:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
if 32 seconds is too long a wait just equip another one. If that is still to much just find supply depot, stand next to it, and change suits to refresh the cooldown timer
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3479
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Posted - 2014.07.15 21:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Reposted after Aeon/Zaria's beard discussion...
Hey now, I had nothing to do with that conversation! FFS, first I get people insinuating Jenza and I are the same person, now I'm getting confused for Appia? And. Appia Vibbia wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:. . . Zaria's beard . . . Context. It matters. :P
Everyone knows there's only 1 female DUST player that just happens to have lots of alts and good at using different accents.
Deal with it. People have been mixing up our three names for the past 8 months. 
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3487
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Posted - 2014.07.16 00:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
>_> You guys do know a Cal-Scout is now in the same state it was pre-Alpha changes to the cloak, right?
4x Precision Enhancer take the same number of modules from than and for these charlie numbers.
The Cal-Scout's ablitity to dampen is returned to that pre-Alpha state.
For Charlie you're even getting a range buff.
You had a precision buff for 2 months and now it's going back to the way it was.
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3497
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Posted - 2014.07.16 00:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:So a ck0 with 4 extenders + 2 damps and cloak is the new light assault?
 Seriously!?
You say this like it wasn't a thing for the 4 months before the hotfixes started and cloaks' dampening got nerfed.
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3500
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Posted - 2014.07.16 01:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hawkin P wrote:If you are changing what dropsuit actually do you are going to have to offer a suit respect. I know I wouldn't of ever skilled into Amarr Logi if it didn't have a sidearm, or caldari scout if it didn't have a precision bonus. We are talking about almost 3mil SP for each of these suits. If that happens I am fine with it.
Caldari scout can still perform the role of Med Frame spotters in PC. If a scout could avoid Cal-Scout scans before they'll still avoid cal-scout scans now. Cal-Scout did a good job of keeping other scouts to few armor plates. They can still have the same effect of low slot module cost.
They've even become better at scanning the Assaults, Logistics, Sentinels, and Commandos.
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3565
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Posted - 2014.07.17 14:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:xAckie wrote:So it looks like we should all move to GalScout as Assault changes look uninspiring.
Nothing beats being invisible in an FPS.
(Also, Cloak should provide no bonus to dampening.) Tourists, slayers and FotM chasers ... Please, do continue to bolster the Scoutly ranks. Please, do defile our precision instruments with your fists of ham and frontline scrubbery. Please, do stack HP and frontline slay away; the more SP you invest, the better you'll be. Please, do max out your Biotics, EWAR, Cloak, Shotguns, RE and become slayer supreme. Please, do not be alarmed by talks of future efficacy bonuses. You'll get a respec. Promise.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3605
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Posted - 2014.07.18 20:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Ghost Steps wrote:
The numbers i get so far is 290 shield/ 84 armor (154, 755 ISK) which wont handle a single shot from the proto shotgun or last 2 sec against proto HMG and even if i survive i wont be able to regen my armor to fight a second round, been in that situation so many times and dont bring that "u dont play skillful" speech, i have my experience.
Assuming Optimal Range ... 290 / 84 is within OHK range for any shotgun (not just prototype). As for the HMG, your lifespan would be better measured in tenths of a second; two seconds is many times larger than your actual lifespan. These aren't necessarily bad things; Scouts are supposed to squishy. Keeps things interesting for us :-)
Assuming no plates you need 427 shields to survive a single shot from an STD Shotty. Which would basically be 3 complex and 1 enhanced or 4 complex 
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3613
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Posted - 2014.07.20 22:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
lol, if you think the scout needs a PG reductions you're either stupid or an *******. KinCats, Codebreaker, Cloak, Uplink. 1 of each of those at PRO level totals 65 PG
Without Dropsuit Engineering skill your 3 PG over the Scout mk.0
You've got 1PG left to fit on a Scout ck.0
5 PG left on a Scout ak.0
and 10 PG left on a Scout gk.0
If you think the PG needs to be reduced on scouts you're an idiot or an *******.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3620
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Posted - 2014.07.21 03:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Mima Sebiestor wrote:
I think the PG needs to be reduced on scouts.
I think the Shotgun needs to OHK Sentinels.
The breach only having 2 shots, with a longer fire interval and slower reload. That would actually make me use it if it could kill a sentinel in 2 shots
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3704
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Posted - 2014.07.25 03:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Faquira Bleuetta wrote:Bormir1r wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Mima Sebiestor wrote:
I think the PG needs to be reduced on scouts.
I think the Shotgun needs to OHK Sentinels. The breach only having 2 shots, with a longer fire interval and slower reload. That would actually make me use it if it could kill a sentinel in 2 shots The damage should be 80 per pellet at basic (if there was one at std) 84 at adv, and 88 at proto. This would definitely make the breach more viable. nope
Clearly an expert opinion from someone that has put hours upon hours of practice with the breach shotgun.
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