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Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 592	Posted - 2014.06.23 04:49:00 - [1] - Quote Can I have a respec? The suit is terrible, worse than an assault suit. I really want a cal scout so instead of being the one on everyones scans, I can scan everyone. The min scout is ridiculously bad and underperforms even compared to an amarr scout due to its lack of, well, everything. Please buff this suit sometime, its ridiculous how terrible it is versus cal scout+ sentinel spam that seems to be the new meta Id really like if CCP either a) fixed the suit to be viable (preferably a move speed bonus) or b) deleted the suit and gave everyone who was stupid enough to spec into it a full refund. It was only viable when the cloaks could actually do something, but because it can't fit past a basic cloak, its worse than useless, esp. versus caldari scouts who see a red little reticle right above your head at all times even in your "invisible" cloak Can i just get my SP back to spec something more viable like plasma cannons and breach flay locks? What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3149	Posted - 2014.06.23 04:55:00 - [2] - Quote it has the fastest move speed in the game.....I tried it on one of my alts and I like it cause of the strafe speed. Not sure what's so horrible about the suit Removed all hope with this post
Michael Arck 4837	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:03:00 - [3] - Quote Yea I might just skill into it to see what's up. I have heard people say it sucks and then I heard others say its pretty decent for what a Minmatar scout should be. So I don't know... Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 962	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:07:00 - [4] - Quote I can't fit anything on the suit. At standard level, CPU and PG are like a militia cal/gal scout. It is pathetic. Let's see: It sacrifices armour for speed It sacrifices shields for stamina It sacrifices CPU&PG for ?????? Meanwhile, on my Gallente/Caldari/Amarr scouts (on my racial themed alts) can fit virtually whatever they damn well please. So, can somebody give me a VALID gameplay reason for why my 'ol Minmatar Scout has no resources? Cause I am pretty sure it is a handicap without warrant (like the Amarr being down a slot). I am a minotaur.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3064	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:27:00 - [5] - Quote Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3344	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:27:00 - [6] - Quote Sure once CCP gives the A-scout a better bonus. Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana 82	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:36:00 - [7] - Quote The thing is other scouts can build on their suit's strength with damps, precision enhancers or gatorade and be fine fitting wise. Throw a kinkat on a minja and your gonna have pg problems fitting other things. ~but codebreakers tho~ with codebreakers your gonna give up that kinkat speed boost and get instascanned. ~but codebreakers and pro cloaks tho~ how dafuq you gonna round out that fitting. ~but that nova knife bonus tho~ maaaaaan... Personally i dont think the suit outright sucks. Its just hardmode Pg increase would be cool TBD Ringleader \| Yep Squad Spokesman
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1411	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:41:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Change the hack bonus to an inherent suit bonus (remove 5% to hacking a level, make base hack speed 1.3) Add a 5% a level increase to kin cat module efficiency Retain the nova knife bonus Add 10 PG Maths for movement: First module = 15.75% Total = +15.75% Speed = 9.6m/s Second module = 13.69% Total = +31.59% Speed = 10.9m/s Third module = 8.99% Total = +43.42% Speed = 11.9m/s We're still screwed when it comes to Cal hyper-scanners, but at least we can be definitively the fastest suit, can actually fit kin cats, and retain the ability to speed hack. Knowledge is power
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana 82	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:41:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. MvC style air combos Speed Pg Jetpack Dragon Im fine with anything on that list for the min scout. TBD Ringleader \| Yep Squad Spokesman
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1411	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:42:00 - [10] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Sure once CCP gives the A-scout a better bonus. CCP Rattati is watching. Make a suggestion. Knowledge is power


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3064	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:42:00 - [11] - Quote Same for Amarr Scout obviously "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

I do SUCK Hired Logi's 84	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:45:00 - [12] - Quote Give them speed bonus plz I'm begging Built Strong Ammar Strong
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 84	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:48:00 - [13] - Quote Disregard my last post got to be serious The Ammar scout is practically useless I mean come on u wont me to run forever in pc make for reduction to move speed on armor plates Built Strong Ammar Strong
Chimichanga66605 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 163	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:51:00 - [14] - Quote Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist "Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 85	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:53:00 - [15] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying I'm the worst explainer in game
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1411	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:54:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Same for Amarr Scout obviously Three possible options for the Amarr 1. Remove the range bonus from the Cal/Gal and gift it to the Amarr (but based on module efficency instead of a straight bonus so that range amps must be fitted to use the bonus) or 2. Grant them a 5% per level increase to armor provided by ferroscale and reactive plate (not plate armor) so they can play light assault without losing their speed advantage or 3. Grant them a 5% per level range increase to the ScP Knowledge is power
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 85	Posted - 2014.06.23 05:55:00 - [17] - Quote Brokerib wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Same for Amarr Scout obviously Three possible options for the Amarr 1. Remove the range bonus from the Cal/Gal and gift it to the Amarr (but based on module efficency instead of a straight bonus so that range amps must be fitted to use the bonus) or 2. Grant them a 5% per level increase to armor provided by ferroscale and reactive plate (not plate armor) so they can play light assault without losing their speed advantage or 3. Grant them a 5% per level range increase to the ScP Question is will they give scouts a respec? I'm the worst explainer in game
Chimichanga66605 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 163	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:02:00 - [18] - Quote I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying Dude, the suit is fine. Of course, its hardly my "go to" suit cuz I'm not a full time scout, but its decent where its at. Do you really want to risk them breaking it even more then you think it already is? Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist "Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1412	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:11:00 - [19] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying Dude, the suit is fine. Of course, its hardly my "go to" suit cuz I'm not a full time scout, but its decent where its at. Do you really want to risk them breaking it even more then you think it already is? The Min scout is my go to suit, it's the only thing I run. It's fine in pubs so long as you're not up against que-synced proto squads, but is uncompetitive in PC. The only people running them regularly are people looking for hard mode or masocists. With the current PG a scout who fits for speed or hacking does so at the cost of every other fitting. Nova knives are similar, as due to the lack of an optimisation skill they are irreducible in their fitting requirements. Minmatar are unable to avoid a triple stacked Cal scout without completely gimping their fit (3 x complex dampeners + proto cloak). A Gal scout can move faster or hack faster, all while fitting better and maintaing a lower profile. A number of issues exist in scout balance. Minmatar and Amarr viability in particular. Comments of "it's fine, because I use it on occasion and don't notice any issues" are not overly helpful. Apologies if this comes across as overly harsh, is not my intent. Knowledge is power
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 111	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:13:00 - [20] - Quote Choose how you specialize it. Hack OR run faster. If you want a really good hacker but can't move fast enough. Think like a heavy and get a LAV. Want to run fast but can't hack (as fast) then clear the area before hacking/run if you're not sure. I have several min variants most are shotgun (just level 3) or CRs (prof 2) with SMG (prof 2) for backup. I speciliase each one. The first one is just a basic one with basic CR and uplinks and adv stamina module... Runs and runs quick to get uplinks down and then flanks and denies early advances until dead. For urban conflict I go shotgun, longer distances CR, for counter sniping I have another scout fit (3 damage mods). It works well, it just needs to pick its role and have other ways to adapt. It should not be used in a face to face fight, unless you are prepared to get just an assist or die to deny.

I do SUCK Hired Logi's 85	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:21:00 - [21] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying Dude, the suit is fine. Of course, its hardly my "go to" suit cuz I'm not a full time scout, but its decent where its at. Do you really want to risk them breaking it even more then you think it already is? I have delt with that suit for to long it was broken from the start of uprising I'm the worst explainer in game
Chimichanga66605 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 163	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:32:00 - [22] - Quote I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying Dude, the suit is fine. Of course, its hardly my "go to" suit cuz I'm not a full time scout, but its decent where its at. Do you really want to risk them breaking it even more then you think it already is? I have delt with that suit for to long it was broken from the start of uprising Got it day 1 myself, looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist "Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 111	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:32:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Electronics are the main scout skills. Yet range and either dampener or precison were given to the gal and cal whilst none were given to Min or Amarr. In addition to this the number of low slots for Gal scouts gives them far more scouting flexibility. Biotic (Kinetic in particular) are hungry for PG but Min are PG gimped so cannot use the kinetics without losing other fittings ie eWar which they need to be competitive with the Cals or Gals. It should have been one biotic/one electronic. As much as I would like range amplification to be removed from Cal and Gal and given to Mins, I think Amarr should get the range amplification. Make them the mobile radar. For Min, make the fitting cost for kinetic be less and of a larger benefit ie same as investing in the kinetic skill.
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 85	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:37:00 - [24] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying Dude, the suit is fine. Of course, its hardly my "go to" suit cuz I'm not a full time scout, but its decent where its at. Do you really want to risk them breaking it even more then you think it already is? I have delt with that suit for to long it was broken from the start of uprising Got it day 1 myself, looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree. Welp this is a cease fire I'm the worst explainer in game
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1413	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:44:00 - [25] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Choose how you specialize it. Hack OR run faster. If you want a really good hacker but can't move fast enough. Think like a heavy and get a LAV. Want to run fast but can't hack (as fast) then clear the area before hacking/run if you're not sure. I have several min variants most are shotgun (just level 3) or CRs (prof 2) with SMG (prof 2) for backup. I speciliase each one. The first one is just a basic one with basic CR and uplinks and adv stamina module... Runs and runs quick to get uplinks down and then flanks and denies early advances until dead. For urban conflict I go shotgun, longer distances CR, for counter sniping I have another scout fit (3 damage mods). It works well, it just needs to pick its role and have other ways to adapt. It should not be used in a face to face fight, unless you are prepared to get just an assist or die to deny. I have 8 generalist fits and 14 specialist fits. CR, ACR, AR, sniper, assault, stealth, AV, demolitions, uplinks, hacking, nova knife, sidearm, dampened, EWAR scanning, and combinations of the above. Hack or run faster isn't the issue, I'm fine having to chose. Under the current meta EWAR is king, so I can't chose either. Dampen or die. Or in the case of the Min, dampen and die. I can only avoid face to face fights if I maintain passive invisibility. If heavies and mediums can track me I can't hack, I can't knife, and I can't avoid. Speed is irrelivant when you're in a race against bullets. Knowledge is power
Chimichanga66605 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 164	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:44:00 - [26] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Don't say that don't listen to him Ratatti HES Lying Dude, the suit is fine. Of course, its hardly my "go to" suit cuz I'm not a full time scout, but its decent where its at. Do you really want to risk them breaking it even more then you think it already is? The Min scout is my go to suit, it's the only thing I run. It's fine in pubs so long as you're not up against que-synced proto squads, but is uncompetitive in PC. The only people running them regularly are people looking for hard mode or masocists. With the current PG a scout who fits for speed or hacking does so at the cost of every other fitting. Nova knives are similar, as due to the lack of an optimisation skill they are irreducible in their fitting requirements. Minmatar are unable to avoid a triple stacked Cal scout without completely gimping their fit (3 x complex dampeners + proto cloak). A Gal scout can move faster or hack faster, all while fitting better and maintaing a lower profile. A number of issues exist in scout balance. Minmatar and Amarr viability in particular. Comments of "it's fine, because I use it on occasion and don't notice any issues" are not overly helpful. Apologies if this comes across as overly harsh, is not my intent. Ok, here we go: I am a Pub-Rat through and through, PC is too much of a pain in the ass for me. I understand MinScout isnt viable in PC, that sucks & you do have my sympathies. Im also one of those "masochists" who use it for hard-mode, its fun that way. In the case of a Pub-Stomp, I don't know how you can run a scout (seriously, I tip my hat to Scouts on the wrong end of a Stomp). I typically go for as much killing power as I can muster (Sentinel/Commando) when stomped, I also dont care how much I die cuz **** it. Comparing it to the other scouts, you run it down nicely, I can't argue against any of that +1 & I'll go ahead take more PG if offered. My "its fine" stance is more my way of say that its not "unplayable." In my experience (& Im assuming yours as well) CCP over fixes things & I dont want them to overhaul the suit cuz that hardly works out well (although Ratatti is proving to be the master of small fixes, so we'll see). Finally, I'll take you being harsh rather than all the sugar-coated hand-holding that goes around. You run a good argument. Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist "Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10393	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:46:00 - [27] - Quote It is not worse than an assault suit. The worst scout is better than the best assault. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 112	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:55:00 - [28] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It is not worse than an assault suit. The worst scout is better than the best assault. Cats are natural predators that stalk, flank and use stealth. Of course scouts following the way of the cat are better then assaults who follow they way of the dog ie rush you, spray saliva er bullets everywhere and then hump your leg/ tea bag your corpse.
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 112	Posted - 2014.06.23 06:56:00 - [29] - Quote Brokerib wrote: Venerable Phage wrote: Choose how you specialize it. Hack OR run faster. If you want a really good hacker but can't move fast enough. Think like a heavy and get a LAV. Want to run fast but can't hack (as fast) then clear the area before hacking/run if you're not sure. I have several min variants most are shotgun (just level 3) or CRs (prof 2) with SMG (prof 2) for backup. I speciliase each one. The first one is just a basic one with basic CR and uplinks and adv stamina module... Runs and runs quick to get uplinks down and then flanks and denies early advances until dead. For urban conflict I go shotgun, longer distances CR, for counter sniping I have another scout fit (3 damage mods). It works well, it just needs to pick its role and have other ways to adapt. It should not be used in a face to face fight, unless you are prepared to get just an assist or die to deny. I have 8 generalist fits and 14 specialist fits. CR, ACR, AR, sniper, assault, stealth, AV, demolitions, uplinks, hacking, nova knife, sidearm, dampened, EWAR scanning, and combinations of the above. Hack or run faster isn't the issue, I'm fine having to chose. Under the current meta EWAR is king, so I can't chose either. Dampen or die. Or in the case of the Min, dampen and die. I can only avoid face to face fights if I maintain passive invisibility. If heavies and mediums can track me I can't hack, I can't knife, and I can't avoid. Speed is irrelivant when you're in a race against bullets. Oh I agree. Giving multiple eWar abilities to half the scouts and none to the other half is racial bias up there with the vehicle bias too.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3759	Posted - 2014.06.23 07:06:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The fundamental problem the Min scout faces is it's bonuses tax it's resources. To maximize bonuses for scouts this is how they stand. Cal Scout: Precision and Range use only CPU it works even with low PG Gal Scout: Range and Damps only use CPUGÇª leaving a **** ton for fitting Amarr: StaminaGÇª don't even need a mod, but really they are a whole other issue Min Scout: Knives, they cost as much fitting as ScP, Code Breakers also taxing on Min Scout. Nevermind trying to add speed Cloak, a solid weapon besides NK. Shields are also resource taxing, but unlike the Cal fitting to your bonus means you can't fit shields as easily. If this can be fixed Min would be in a better place. Possible solutions -Lower the PG cost on Codebreakers -Lower the PG cost on Knives (honestly why do they cost so much PG) -Move PG upgrade to Low (this does help but does not address that everybody else can fit to their strength without an Upgrade) -Increase PG of Min scout (Already shot down) Something that relates to the problem is that Ratatti stated that we should have to chose between visible stealth (Cloak) and TAC invisibility (Damps) But as a Minja I find I have to chose between Visibility, Damp, or my suit strengths KRRROOOOOOM

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 133	Posted - 2014.06.23 07:29:00 - [31] - Quote The trouble is, in a competitive environment, min scouts can't effectively fullfil their role as hackers because they can't fit enough code breakers since their low slots are needed for dampeners. I suggest improving Min scout hack speed. It has also been suggested that code breakers should be moved to highs. It is also rather awkward that code breakers and kincats require such large amounts of pg. I'm ok with the suit being CPU heavy, but since the suit seems designed to be fitted with these mods (in situations when you don't need lots of dampeners) it is unfortunate that they cost quite as much pg as they do.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3760	Posted - 2014.06.23 08:05:00 - [32] - Quote Amarr should get a bonus to scrambler pistols (or just pistols in general?). The light assault idea is a great idea, but it needs to have a unique thing about it that makes you want to skill into it (want to be the best gunslinger? play amarr scout type of thing) Idk, I don't play the amarr scout...but the stamina bonus is just silly. It's like giving the Minmatar logistics suit a hacking speed bonus on top of the inherent 20% bonus it already gets from being a logi (and minmatar) Minmatar should be all about speed. Slots are fine, but maybe give it a pg reduction to kin cats? :O I think that any sort of fitting bonuses should be towards actually using the items. I don't like just basic increases in stats that allow the suit to potentially be abused by another playstyle that wasn't possible before (like HP tanking). A cool option would be to give it a bonus to nova knives that reduces their fitting cost to 0 at level 5. I mean these are KNIVES we're talking about. Leave the dampening and precision to the gal/cal scouts and make the Amarr/Minmatar all about being a beast with sidearms. Just make sure to give bonuses that are only applied if the item is actually being equipped to the suit. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact The East India Co. 4343	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:00:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. It's already pretty competitive, if you use the suit right it can be a game changer in PC's. The hack speed does not really mean anything in Pub matches but in PC's it makes all the difference. Viktor for CPM I'll ring for free(Multiple roles, 51Mil SP) Chat Channel: Vik PC
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:33:00 - [34] - Quote I definitely agree on making the Amarr scout something of a light Assault. It does fit the fact that it's already the slowest scout and Amarr is meant to be tanky. The stamina bonus would then make it something of a terminator - Following you without ever stopping. Actually, is it possible to increase base movement speed while keeping sprint speed very low? Amarr could be the slowest scout on sprint, but with a walk that is comparable to a sprint for many roles. The effect would be that it could actually hunt people at speeds that others need to sprint for - And sprinting prevents you from shooting and also depletes your stamina. This would make Minmatar the best at hit and run and going from point A to point B, while making Amarr the never tiring hunters, which both mimics the idea of a stamina bonus and fits the lore of the two factions. The only question then becomes: How is an Assault better than an Amarr scout? But then again, Assaults have yet to become useful. So I'd say we should think about that later. As for the Minmatar Scout, I only ever used the Basic Light as an introduction to the Minmatar Logi role. And I must say, it's lots of fun to have a repper, an injector and two guns, with the speed to be absolutely everywhere at once and selectively either add firepower or healing.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4870	Posted - 2014.06.23 09:36:00 - [35] - Quote I never had more fun in this game than when using Minmatar scouts. I honestly don't know what everybody is doing wrong. You need to get good. RIP Stinky Sleeve. RIP Dust514. See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB
The Eristic Dust 90210 482	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:02:00 - [36] - Quote Minjas, can't fit anything worthwhile, even with good cores. I like the idea of fitting reduction to biotics and/or knives a lot. Kincats have just plain silly fitting requirements, and, like knives, the basic ones are worthless, meaning you have to run the high end stuff regardless of suit tier. Amarr needs its stamina bonus to be doubled (if it is to be kept) in conjunction with a fair speed boost to be at all worthwhile. The efficacy to Reactives/Ferros would be decent, too, though is a little bland, imo. Will keep thinking. Reduction to laser weapon feedback damage? Stuff's a killer in a scout suit. Gallente scan range bonus of 1% is absurd. I see no reason why it shouldn't be restored to its previous level, as it cannot ever scan with the precision of the Caldari. Caldari with short range, high precision vs Gallente with long range, low precision sounds reasonably balanced to me. A single meter of scan range for the SP investment required at Level V is shambolic. It either has to be buffed or has to be replaced. 20% efficacy to Reactive rep rate per level? Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Yeeeuuuupppp 363	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:38:00 - [37] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I never had more fun in this game than when using Minmatar scouts. I honestly don't know what everybody is doing wrong. You need to get good. I had more fun with my minnie pre-1.8. It's hard to go on amazing kill streaks with knives while cloaked bastards run around with shotguns to ruin the party. See, back then I laughed when I got shotgunned in the face when I tried to knife him, because I knew what he was, I knew what was going to happen, but I tried getting him anyways so I laughed at my own stupidity and moved on. But now, I don't even know that there's a shotgunner waiting for me to turn the corner because I can't see him on offices but he can see me. Also, I don't even bother using scout anymore because I can't even enjoy killing a proto sentinel with knives because I, 1- Either get destroyed by his arguably op hmg because he didn't want a hug or 2-Get the kill, but only to be killed right after by an invisible dude that watched the whole thing who has a dirty needle to pick up the fat boy I just slashed. It's just not as fun with a crutch added (Yes, I'm blaming cloaks. Judge me.). More fun being a slayer and watch your enemies cringe at the sight of my advanced crap. -sigh- Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 133	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:38:00 - [38] - Quote The trouble with a biotic bonus for Minmatar is that they already have a bonus, to hacking (I am ignoring the knife bonus as it is more of a fun addition than a real worthwhile bonus). I would be more inclined to give a biotic efficiency bonus to Amarr. Someone recently pointed out that fast Amarr ships in EVE are amongst the fastest in the game. If Amarr scouts were the fastest sprinters that would be great, Minmatar could still be the fastest movers without sprinting, plus Minmatar's great stamina regen keeps them as the best for hit and run. For Amarr I also like the scrambler pistol or scan range ideas. Though I don't like the idea of an armor bonus at all. I don't care if it's Amarr, it shouldn't be a light assault, it should be a scout. I'm also inclined to agree that Gal and Cal scouts should have the scan range removed, especially it it's going to Amarr. Precision and dampening are already great bonuses on their own. Also, keeping the ridiculously low Gal range bonus is stupid.
taxi bastard Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 133	Posted - 2014.06.23 10:55:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Give ammar and minimatar more pg and CPU compared to gal and caldari to make them more versatile than the better bonus suits. It's a simple trade off then. You want versatility go amarr or mini you want good passive bonus go cal - gal
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5398	Posted - 2014.06.23 11:04:00 - [40] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. In Pubs you are absolutely correct. In PC, you couldn't be more wrong. That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 133	Posted - 2014.06.23 11:14:00 - [41] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. In Pubs you are absolutely correct. In PC, you couldn't be more wrong. Which is precisely why I suggest improving the hacking rather than biotics. It will have minimal effect of pub matches but would hopefully make Min scouts viable in PC. What do you think Ghost?
Floyd20 Azizora Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:26:00 - [42] - Quote The big problem i see is everything it is good at (minus stabbing) is dependant on low slots, and normally high pg costs. part of me wants to swap the stamina bonus and hacking bonus, letting amarr hack and regen stamina very fast, and minmatar run longer and faster, then stab suits. moving something to high slot would not hurt either, maybe pg upgrades(maybe put in a pds from eve in low slots for shield tankers), so they can fit more, or speed mods, so they can run fast and run damps at the same time.slight pg increase maybe?
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 154	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:28:00 - [43] - Quote The amarr scout is slower and thus travels less distance while cloaked compared to other scouts. When the amarr scout exists cover the cloak can sometimes run out before the amarr scout is in cover again ( can happen when moving to the nearest cover available with basic cloak now) when that would not be the case for other racial suits when the scout suit's speed is not modified by modules. Thus give the amarr scouts a suit bonus that increases max cloak time by roughly 10% Make the cloak bonus a part of the amarr scout suit itself, gallente gets armor repair with its suit, caldari get good shield regeneration times, minmatar gets a suit hack bonus (which isn't a large enough hack bonus to offset fitting difficulties), amarr gets only a small hp and stamina bonus that doesn't make up for the loss of speed (amarr suit bonus shouldn't affect other suits when they equip a cloak). Make the amarr scout have a bonus that reduces the loss of speed caused by armor plates and reactive plates. Make it replace the stamina regeneration bonus. The armor module bonus could be, roughly 7% of the speed penalty of armor plates and reactive plates is ignored, per level. (The max stamina bonus could stay). The minmatar scout has too much fitting difficulty. Give it more PG and a little more CPU so it can fit sprint speed enhancer modules more easily and be more versatile because it has more fitting capability. In combination with this, a bonus to minmatar scouts is needed that reduces the PG or CPU cost of speed modules, stamina modules, and melee damage modules.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2132	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:53:00 - [44] - Quote Looking at both suits as scouts, with Minmatar as fast covert hackers/knife assassins and Ammar as high endurance light assaults, i'd want something like: Minmatar: Fitting bonus to biotics and knives. Efficacy bonus to fitted damp strength. Hack bonus moved to fitted codebreakers. Slight PG bump. Innate +1/second armor repair. Ammar: Clip size bonus to ScP(has to be significant, about +40% imo). No speed penalty to fitted reactives/ferroscale plates & reduced speed penalty to armor plates. Cloak duration bonus. PSN: RationalSpark
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1115	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:09:00 - [45] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Can I have a respec? The suit is terrible, worse than an assault suit. I really want a cal scout so instead of being the one on everyones scans, I can scan everyone. The min scout is ridiculously bad and underperforms even compared to an amarr scout due to its lack of, well, everything. Please buff this suit sometime, its ridiculous how terrible it is versus cal scout+ sentinel spam that seems to be the new meta Id really like if CCP either a) fixed the suit to be viable (preferably a move speed bonus) or b) deleted the suit and gave everyone who was stupid enough to spec into it a full refund. It was only viable when the cloaks could actually do something, but because it can't fit past a basic cloak, its worse than useless, esp. versus caldari scouts who see a red little reticle right above your head at all times even in your "invisible" cloak Can i just get my SP back to spec something more viable like plasma cannons and breach flay locks? GG Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5399	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:22:00 - [46] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. In Pubs you are absolutely correct. In PC, you couldn't be more wrong. Which is precisely why I suggest improving the hacking rather than biotics. It will have minimal effect of pub matches but would hopefully make Min scouts viable in PC. What do you think Ghost? At work and on mobile. Can't go in detail. Min Scout needs to be able to dodge scans and be one of the two 1.) Sprint at faster than 10m/s 2.) Hack in less than 3.5 seconds Since you only have 1 module to do these with, the bonuses must be large enough to do so. Any less, and the gal scout will take your job from you That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2167	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:57:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Google Doc: Scout Polish Proposal * Last Updated: 2014.06.22 10:10 (version 4.4) ^ Please see Minmatar Scout tab and ignore the others (we're still working on them). * Also, Broker's input is excellent. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 134	Posted - 2014.06.23 13:59:00 - [48] - Quote Maybe change the hack bonus to 10% per level?
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 598	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:04:00 - [49] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Maybe change the hack bonus to 10% per level? That doesn't fix the problem...the problem with the suit is that it has the lowest shield/armor of any suit in the game, and has no Ewar bonus, therefore needs to be more mobile to account for that, which it quite simply isn't. Add that to the fact that in any competitive environment that you will be perm scanned if you want to put on a codebreaker/armor rep per/kincat, and even scanned with triple damps, the suit really is not very appetizing. Theres a reason Moody no longer runs min scout in PC and has switched over to Caldari. To fix the scout it needs to be able to- -Run very fast(>10.5 m/s) or hack very fast (under 4 seconds) -AND be dampened enough to dodge caldari scans What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 598	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:13:00 - [50] - Quote Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Question: Have you ever played a PC, and if so, did you use a minmitar scout? What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...

Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 598	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:22:00 - [51] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I never had more fun in this game than when using Minmatar scouts. I honestly don't know what everybody is doing wrong. You need to get good. You deleted your character before the caldari scout spam. Thats what everyone is doing wrong, is trying to fight caldari scouts What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5379	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:42:00 - [52] - Quote I'm happy with mine. I've hacked an objective and am on my way to the next before the enemy even knows I was there pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3008	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:42:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit only needs one of these to excel: Codebreakers moved to highslot; The role of covert hacker was significantly reduced with the removal of cloak field's dampening bonus, A Gallente Scout can out-perform the role. Moving Codebreakers to a high slot would both put it in position where I could stack more than a Gallente suit could and maintain stealth to successfully infiltrate. 1, 2, and 3 base PG increase for STD, ADV, and PRO suits respectively; for a suit that has an equal distribution of high and low slots, and more than enough CPU it is very limited by the low PG value it has. Although the CPU increase from 1.7 to 1.8 was on par or better than other races the PG increase from 1.7 to 1.8 seemed lacking. Especially since the Cloak Field has to be prototype and 3 complex dampeners in use for Planetary Conquest matches. Sprint speed modifier increased from 1.4 to 1.5 The suit defines itself on being faster than others but the difference from Assaults to Scouts is really not much. The Minmatar Assault is actually faster than the Amarr Scout. Giving it a small boost to sprint would give it what it needed. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 598	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:53:00 - [54] - Quote Also, in Adipem's spread sheet, Rattati, I would recommend looking through the discarded ideas tab, just in case there is something there that you like What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5379	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:06:00 - [55] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit only needs one of these to excel: Codebreakers moved to highslot; The role of covert hacker was significantly reduced with the removal of cloak field's dampening bonus, A Gallente Scout can out-perform the role. Moving Codebreakers to a high slot would both put it in position where I could stack more than a Gallente suit could and maintain stealth to successfully infiltrate. 1, 2, and 3 base PG increase for STD, ADV, and PRO suits respectively; for a suit that has an equal distribution of high and low slots, and more than enough CPU it is very limited by the low PG value it has. Although the CPU increase from 1.7 to 1.8 was on par or better than other races the PG increase from 1.7 to 1.8 seemed lacking. Especially since the Cloak Field has to be prototype and 3 complex dampeners in use for Planetary Conquest matches. Sprint speed modifier increased from 1.4 to 1.5 The suit defines itself on being faster than others but the difference from Assaults to Scouts is really not much. The Minmatar Assault is actually faster than the Amarr Scout. Giving it a small boost to sprint would give it what it needed. The "x suit can do it better cuz slots" arguments never work. Gallente suits may be able to hack faster, but only after completely compromising their low-slots. Minmatar scouts can hack quickly while fitting whatever they damn well please. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
voidfaction Void of Faction 279	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:11:00 - [56] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I can't fit anything on the suit. At standard level, CPU and PG are like a militia cal/gal scout. It is pathetic. Let's see: It sacrifices armour for speed It sacrifices shields for stamina It sacrifices CPU&PG for ?????? Meanwhile, on my Gallente/Caldari/Amarr scouts (on my racial themed alts) can fit virtually whatever they damn well please. So, can somebody give me a VALID gameplay reason for why my 'ol Minmatar Scout has no resources? Cause I am pretty sure it is a handicap without warrant (like the Amarr being down a slot). Edit: my Minmatar assault seems the same way as well; neutered resources. My Minmatar Sentinel seems to have avoided it, thankfully. I wouldn't say it sacrifices CPU. It has more than Gal If your going to say it sacrifices shield for stamina does that include the stamina regen in with that? armor for shield ok. but what about the innate hacking, melee, shield recharge? what does it sacrifice for those innate bonuses? Im all for fixing minmatar but the option to fit 3 cDampeners is there to hide from scans. how many sidearm dmg mods does a non minja have to use to equal the NK dmg of a minja? I did not choose minmatar not because it sucks but because it is geared for only using ONE weapon. It would be my fist pick should the NK bonuse become something universally useful. balanced slots and the most innate bonuses of all the scouts sacrifice only a small eHP and PG. the diehard NKers will not give up there NK bonus so let them suffer being useless at everything for it.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom 1990	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:11:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. wasn't that ccp's job a year ago? rip ccp. it was a good run. www.forum.eternalcrusade.com
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2170	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:16:00 - [58] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Minmatar scouts can hack quickly while fitting whatever they damn well please. I hear what you're saying, but the reality is as follows ... 1) The functions Minmatar Scouts are best suited for involve PG-intensive items. 2) Minmatar have less PG than any other Scout. Here are examples of PG-intensive items that real-life Minmatar Scouts use to maximize their effectiveness: 1) KinCats 2) Codebreakers 3) Nova Knives 4) Shield Extenders 5) Prototype Cloaks 6) Remote Explosives I hope this helps to advance your theoretical understanding of Minmatar Scouts. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2579	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:18:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. I choose min scout because it supposedly would be the best hacker suit, sadly it's not significantly better then any other suit at hacking, it's better but it's not nearly worth the sacrifice you need to make to run the suit. imo, improve the bonus to hacking so that it's at the same level as the hacking logis from the previous builds, they were in a good spot though since mims are squishier, i'd honestly prefer them to be better at it. this would give mim scouts a place in pc, not a great place but stealth speed hacking before your opponent can react is viable in that format.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 35	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:38:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. i'm lvl.5 cal and i laugh when i see this suit try to knife me so, in my mind either lower their scan profile or increase their movement speed(not sprint speed, cause you cannot knife while sprinting) or simply raise their cpu/pg(by how much i don't know cause i don't use the suit.) since the gal scout nerf i have had no competition ( i even stopped using dampeners lol) so please buff something to give me a good fight hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2172	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:50:00 - [61] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: i'm lvl.5 cal and i laugh when i see this suit try to knife me so, in my mind either lower their scan profile or increase their movement speed(not sprint speed, cause you cannot knife while sprinting) or simply raise their cpu/pg(by how much i don't know cause i don't use the suit.) since the gal scout nerf i have had no competition ( i even stopped using dampeners lol) so please buff something to give me a good fight Borrowed from the mind of Appia Vibbia: Several key movement metrics are functions of base movement speed. In short, an increase to walk speed would also increase strafe speeds (a likely undesirable effect). Also, thank you for your honesty, CalScout. My experience as a CalScout is the same. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 35	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:55:00 - [62] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: i'm lvl.5 cal and i laugh when i see this suit try to knife me so, in my mind either lower their scan profile or increase their movement speed(not sprint speed, cause you cannot knife while sprinting) or simply raise their cpu/pg(by how much i don't know cause i don't use the suit.) since the gal scout nerf i have had no competition ( i even stopped using dampeners lol) so please buff something to give me a good fight Borrowed from the mind of Appia Vibbia: Several key movement metrics are functions of base movement speed. As they're interconnected, increasing one means increases another. In short, an increase to walk speed would also increase strafe speeds (a likely undesirable effect). Also, thank you for your honesty, CalScout. My experience as a CalScout is the same. hmmm you are right my good sir so why not give the knives themself a movement speed bonus that only kicks in when selected (just an idea) hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2172	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:56:00 - [63] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: hmmm you are right my good sir so why not give the knives themself a movement speed bonus that only kicks in when selected (just an idea) Methinks such a feat would require a client-side update :-) But I like the way you think, good sir. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 35	Posted - 2014.06.23 15:58:00 - [64] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: hmmm you are right my good sir so why not give the knives themself a movement speed bonus that only kicks in when selected (just an idea) Methinks such a feat would require a client-side update :-) But I like the way you think, good sir. thusly so rattati answer thy question client or server? hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
voidfaction Void of Faction 279	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:04:00 - [65] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: i'm lvl.5 cal and i laugh when i see this suit try to knife me so, in my mind either lower their scan profile or increase their movement speed(not sprint speed, cause you cannot knife while sprinting) or simply raise their cpu/pg(by how much i don't know cause i don't use the suit.) since the gal scout nerf i have had no competition ( i even stopped using dampeners lol) so please buff something to give me a good fight Borrowed from the mind of Appia Vibbia: Several key movement metrics are functions of base movement speed. As they're interconnected, increasing one means increases another. In short, an increase to walk speed would also increase strafe speeds (a likely undesirable effect). Also, thank you for your honesty, CalScout. My experience as a CalScout is the same. hmmm you are right my good sir so why not give the knives themself a movement speed bonus that only kicks in when selected (just an idea) Everyone know you run faster with a knife
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2172	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:08:00 - [66] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: thusly so rattati answer thy question client or server? Sadly, I am no Judge Rad and lack a direct line to Rattati. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
CRNWLLC Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 320	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:12:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. Isn't that your job?
VALCORE72 Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:22:00 - [68] - Quote lol TBH the hole scout skill in dust has done more damage then you know . scouts are for SCOUTING .recon .snipping . uplink placement hacking depos and objectives . mobile short range radar . not this assassination suit that EVERYONE runs . they should be war point farmers like logies . the suits and skills need to reflect there battle field roles . this freedom of do whatever you want has hurt the game more then you know or ppl want to admit . cloak should have been for commando only hench the word commando . reskill the trees to reflect there numbers on the field would be good . assaults fastest easyest to get going to heavys longest and hardest to do .going from 1.5mill sp assault to 5mill sp heavys .please rethink what and how you want on the field
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 607	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:30:00 - [69] - Quote Brokerib wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Same for Amarr Scout obviously Three possible options for the Amarr 1. Remove the range bonus from the Cal/Gal and gift it to the Amarr (but based on module efficency instead of a straight bonus so that range amps must be fitted to use the bonus) Do this. Now. Amarr -> range Gallente -> dampening Caldari -> precision Amarr spots heavies and undampened mediums at large range but can be scanned easily and doesn't see scouts Gallente doesn't get picked up by scans but can't scan very well at all Caldari picks up anyone within their limited range but can't hide well from scans In the second step the eWar boni should be turned into module efficacy boni. I'm unsure about the numbers though. I have no opinion on Minmatar stuff, though. I have no idea what their purpose is in Dust. Be quick to the front line and then die in the first 1-v-1?
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3013	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:32:00 - [70] - Quote voidfaction wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: i'm lvl.5 cal and i laugh when i see this suit try to knife me so, in my mind either lower their scan profile or increase their movement speed(not sprint speed, cause you cannot knife while sprinting) or simply raise their cpu/pg(by how much i don't know cause i don't use the suit.) since the gal scout nerf i have had no competition ( i even stopped using dampeners lol) so please buff something to give me a good fight Borrowed from the mind of Appia Vibbia: Several key movement metrics are functions of base movement speed. As they're interconnected, increasing one means increases another. In short, an increase to walk speed would also increase strafe speeds (a likely undesirable effect). Also, thank you for your honesty, CalScout. My experience as a CalScout is the same. hmmm you are right my good sir so why not give the knives themself a movement speed bonus that only kicks in when selected (just an idea) Everyone know you run faster with a knife You think you're being funny. Too bad, you actually do run faster with a knife out in DUST than you do with other weapons. Each weapon has a hidden weight value that slows down your suit a very small amount. Grenades and Knives are the lightest and you do in fact run faster with them. Who was it that tested this with me. It was 3 or 4 of us. Ghost Kaiser and I were there, I forgot who else. Oh, right. It was 3 of us. 2 to run, 1 to watch. then a fourth scout found us randomly while he was on the other side so we chased him for a while. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2174	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:36:00 - [71] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: You think you're being funny. Too bad, you actually do run faster with a knife out in DUST than you do with other weapons. Each weapon has a hidden weight value that slows down your suit a very small amount. Grenades and Knives are the lightest and you do in fact run faster with them. Who was it that tested this with me. It was 3 or 4 of us. Ghost Kaiser and I were there, I forgot who else. Oh, right. It was 3 of us. 2 to run, 1 to watch. then a fourth scout found us randomly while he was on the other side so we chased him for a while. If this is true, then perhaps a "negative" weight factor could be added to knives such that base movement is increased when they're equipped. This could be accomplished without a client-side update. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 336	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:45:00 - [72] - Quote I know the Amarr hate their stamina bonuses but if you wanted to expand on that (so it's actually a worthwhile bonus) then I suggest making it 20% bonus to stamina regen and max stamina plus another bonus, say a 10% reduction to plate speed penalty per level. Just as the Gallente dampening should offset Caldari precision then Amarr endurance should offset Minmatar speed. Also Minmatar should be very regenerative with low HP while Amarr scouts should logically be brick tanked and low regeneration.
Floyd20 Azizora Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:47:00 - [73] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: lol TBH the hole scout skill in dust has done more damage then you know . scouts are for SCOUTING .recon .snipping . uplink placement hacking depos and objectives . mobile short range radar . not this assassination suit that EVERYONE runs . they should be war point farmers like logies . the suits and skills need to reflect there battle field roles . this freedom of do whatever you want has hurt the game more then you know or ppl want to admit . cloak should have been for commando only hench the word commando . reskill the trees to reflect there numbers on the field would be good . assaults fastest easyest to get going to heavys longest and hardest to do .going from 1.5mill sp assault to 5mill sp heavys .please rethink what and how you want on the field so you want scouts to have no combat ability?
Krator Kosta Nostra Nos Nothi 9	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:10:00 - [74] - Quote Perhaps the answer really should be: Make all scout suits initially the same - 40 precision/ 40 scan profile, with same layout - no suit specific bonuses. Every weapon/tool/armor/shield adds a specific amount of CPU/PG like it already does, but it also increases the scan profile by a specific amout. Those that choose to run with minimal equipment will be unscannable without the precision enhancers. Those that run with a lot of equipment, can chose to run with dampners which will reduce the scan profile by a specific percentage This could be applied across ALL the suits, thus making some suits able to be unseen in specific situations (ie A heavy unscanable by an Assault if they are only running a Scp for instance. Doing something like this , would bring equality across the suits, and would allow anyone to become the hacker, the scanner, the stalker...etc. And...it would allow everyone to be able to counter properly (assuming they had the points invested in the appropriate counter and used the appropriate eMods) I forsee this might require one more client side update, but going forward after that, it would all be server side adjustments.
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 89	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:27:00 - [75] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: I never had more fun in this game than when using Minmatar scouts. I honestly don't know what everybody is doing wrong. You need to get good. Says the Npc corp I'm a bastard there not way you can fit two proto kin cats and make it work I'm the worst explainer in game
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 134	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:35:00 - [76] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: lol TBH the hole scout skill in dust has done more damage then you know . scouts are for SCOUTING .recon .snipping . uplink placement hacking depos and objectives . mobile short range radar . not this assassination suit that EVERYONE runs . they should be war point farmers like logies . the suits and skills need to reflect there battle field roles . this freedom of do whatever you want has hurt the game more then you know or ppl want to admit . cloak should have been for commando only hench the word commando . reskill the trees to reflect there numbers on the field would be good . assaults fastest easyest to get going to heavys longest and hardest to do .going from 1.5mill sp assault to 5mill sp heavys .please rethink what and how you want on the field Though assassination is clearly a scout role, improving hacking speed would fit with your view of scouts.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1116	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:54:00 - [77] - Quote How about we change the topic to how to nerf scouts? Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 61	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:54:00 - [78] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Electronics are the main scout skills. Yet range and either dampener or precison were given to the gal and cal whilst none were given to Min or Amarr. In addition to this the number of low slots for Gal scouts gives them far more scouting flexibility. Biotic (Kinetic in particular) are hungry for PG but Min are PG gimped so cannot use the kinetics without losing other fittings ie eWar which they need to be competitive with the Cals or Gals. It should have been one biotic/one electronic. As much as I would like range amplification to be removed from Cal and Gal and given to Mins, I think Amarr should get the range amplification. Make them the mobile radar. For Min, make the fitting cost for kinetic be less and of a larger benefit ie same as investing in the kinetic skill. this is the best idea so far Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, make it uniquely your own........ Bruce Lee
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2474	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:08:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Here's an idea, or a small set of them. Smart - no question Simple - I think so but I can't vouch for the tech side, don't know enough Complete overhauls - Depends on what one means but slots don't need changed and only some of the on suit skills get adjusted/altered. NOTE: These are not my ideas, I'm just making like a CPM and bringing them to your attention. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Spreadsheet! Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
VALCORE72 Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 184	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:13:00 - [80] - Quote tbh do we even care? is this a dead game or is there hope? are we just given ideas to improve this one or well they be used somewhere else ? theses are the real questions we need a reply to cause whats the point if it dead ? are theses ideas for legoin or for dust?

Appia Nappia 970	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:46:00 - [81] - Quote Texs Red wrote: I know the Amarr hate their stamina bonuses but if you wanted to expand on that (so it's actually a worthwhile bonus) then I suggest making it 20% bonus to stamina regen and max stamina plus another bonus, say a 10% reduction to plate speed penalty per level. Just as the Gallente dampening should offset Caldari precision then Amarr endurance should offset Minmatar speed. Also Minmatar should be very regenerative with low HP while Amarr scouts should logically be brick tanked and low regeneration. Stamina Regeneration is far more important than just have some huge pool of stamina. Especially since there are so many tiny ledges and other things that you have to jump over. The first jump takes 65 stamina but the second takes you down to a third and a third jump drops you to 0. The Minmatar have the fastest stamina regeneration and make Amarr Stamina tank pretty pointless. Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 527	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:55:00 - [82] - Quote Amarr bonus improves both though. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5408	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:05:00 - [83] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: How about we change the topic to how to nerf scouts? Do honestly believe the Minmatar Scout needs a nerf!?!? That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
Ghost Kaisar The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5408	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:08:00 - [84] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Texs Red wrote: I know the Amarr hate their stamina bonuses but if you wanted to expand on that (so it's actually a worthwhile bonus) then I suggest making it 20% bonus to stamina regen and max stamina plus another bonus, say a 10% reduction to plate speed penalty per level. Just as the Gallente dampening should offset Caldari precision then Amarr endurance should offset Minmatar speed. Also Minmatar should be very regenerative with low HP while Amarr scouts should logically be brick tanked and low regeneration. Stamina Regeneration is far more important than just have some huge pool of stamina. Especially since there are so many tiny ledges and other things that you have to jump over. The first jump takes 65 stamina but the second takes you down to a third and a third jump drops you to 0. The Minmatar have the fastest stamina regeneration and make Amarr Stamina tank pretty pointless. Not on open ground. That being said, Minmatar should be burst sprinters, and Amarr should be distance runners Raise Minmatar sprint speed and reduce stamina That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
Chimichanga66605 Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 168	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:15:00 - [85] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Chimichanga66605 wrote: Why does everyone think this suit is broken? I do just fine with it & have ZERO problem fitting whatever I want on it. It's the epitome of a suit where you "pick your fights," its that simple. The suit isn't meant to go up against other scouts, so don't go hunting other scouts. The suit isn't meant to go toe-to-toe with heavies (unless your a skilled Nova Knifer) so don't go toe-to-toe with heavies. The suit EXCELS at taking out EVERY medium suit you'll go up against, so use it to go after mediums. To me its that simple. CCP Ratatti, I've never asked anything of you, so for the love of Beer & Tacos PLEEEAAASE leave my scout alone. I honestly think its fine where it is. Question: Have you ever played a PC, and if so, did you use a minmitar scout? Yes, I have done PC. I'm far effective at Medic Logi or Sentinel in PC. Like I said earlier, it isn't viable in PC. I get that. I have primarily a Pub/FW perspective, simply cuz that's where most of my experience is. Its just where I have more fun. PC isn't for everyone. Mk.0 Specialist, Republic Loyalist "Badassery is not born, but often thrust upon you." -Franklin Delano Roosevelt
Bright Steel Tears Of Wars 20	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:38:00 - [86] - Quote I run min scout 90% of the time and do alright, I'm not the greatest player cause my aim sucks LOL, but I do best with that suit. The trick for me is to keep moving, the other scouts can't keep up so they don't try. It's funny when the cal or gal scout try to get me with a shotgun but can't catch me so I just run out of their optimal and pop them with my CR. Keep moving and avoid heavies within 30 meters unless u got cover and surprise. The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1893	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:43:00 - [87] - Quote Honestly, i'd say the Minja just needs a Pg increase of like 5. Currently it's what, 10Pg under the Caldari, while gaining 30 CPU? Doesn't help either that kincats and knives use metric fucktons of PG, while still using tons of CPU. Please at the VERY least, reduce PG cost of shield extenders, and maybe drop PG on Kincats by 3-4 General John Ripper -HAM(Yum) This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Non-Association Foster Care Office
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 974	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:46:00 - [88] - Quote voidfaction wrote: I wouldn't say it sacrifices CPU. It has more than Gal If your going to say it sacrifices shield for stamina does that include the stamina regen in with that? armor for speed ok. but what about the innate hacking, melee, shield recharge? what does it sacrifice for those innate bonuses? Im all for fixing minmatar but the option to fit 3 cDampeners is there to hide from scans. how many sidearm dmg mods does a non minja have to use to equal the NK dmg of a minja? I did not choose minmatar not because it sucks but because it is geared for only using ONE weapon. It would be my fist pick should the NK bonuse become something universally useful. balanced slots and the most innate bonuses of all the scouts sacrifice only a small eHP and PG. the diehard NKers will not give up there NK bonus so let them suffer being useless at everything for it. Apparently, I looked at the non-scout version. I have numerous M-1s that I have to burn through. So not only does CCP provide useless suits, but they gimp them from a resources standpoint. Makes sense. Force you to waste SP on garbage you don't need, and salt the wound... thanks CCP! Still, PG is low on the scout (as has been noted by diehard minmatar scout users). And the whole of the scout suits are messed up. What cool innate bonuses do caldari have? Or gallente? Or Amarr? What do they get? Are they on par with the minmatar? Don't ask me. All the classes in this game seem to have been poorly thought out from a bonus perspective. I'd say it ALLneeds to be redone. I am a minotaur.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:27:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Haven't you already read all the good ideas? It needs serious help against Caldari's precision. Either increase the base hack speed, or decrease the base scan profile to compensate. Perhaps you could even grant them an extra low slot alongside the PG increase. The fact is, you can't run dampening with hack speed because the Caldari scout will see you. Minja shouldn't have to use 3 complex damps just to avoid a Calamari with 2 complex precisions. High risk, low reward.
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 93	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:28:00 - [90] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: How about we change the topic to how to nerf scouts? Khan stfu and gtfo I'm the worst explainer in game

Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 596	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:30:00 - [91] - Quote @OP: Maybe you might remember me from earlier today with my basic templar assault and standard templar scrambler pistol against your boundless cr and proto scout. ... maybe it's not the suit that's bad?
Floyd20 Azizora Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:32:00 - [92] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Haven't you already read all the good ideas? It needs serious help against Caldari's precision. Either increase the base hack speed, or decrease the base scan profile to compensate. Perhaps you could even grant them an extra low slot alongside the PG increase. The fact is, you can't run dampening with hack speed because the Caldari scout will see you. Minja shouldn't have to use 3 complex damps just to avoid a Calamari with 2 complex precisions. High risk, low reward. increase the base hack speed, and you might as well replace the bonus with something else(kincat pg reduction?) through that means it gets 3 bonuses in effect. cant grant them an extra low without losing a high, meaning 3 of the scouts would have 4/2 layout. move sopmething useful to high slot instead, make them more useful(codebreakers or kincats?) standardarise precision and damping mods, move base precision to 36 with profile at 35, that fixes the last point (before bonuses)
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 560	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:34:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Give the suit more PG! Its insane the amount of PG required for 3 complex shields and a kincat plus that stupid cloak. You gave the suit an extra low but yet we have to fill it with a PG upgrade? We're pretty much in the same boat as before the scout buff
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 135	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:56:00 - [94] - Quote mr musturd wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Give the suit more PG! Its insane the amount of PG required for 3 complex shields and a kincat plus that stupid cloak. You gave the suit an extra low but yet we have to fill it with a PG upgrade? We're pretty much in the same boat as before the scout buff Before 1.8 we had to use a CPU upgrade. Or is that what you meant? Anyway, you are right. I would prefer a pg reduction on kincats though, since we already have more CPU than other scouts. Codebreaker pg reduction too. Personally I don't understand why they cost so much pg, I mean, surely you use computing power to hack stuff right? Oh, and knife optimisation please.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 563	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:02:00 - [95] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: mr musturd wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Give the suit more PG! Its insane the amount of PG required for 3 complex shields and a kincat plus that stupid cloak. You gave the suit an extra low but yet we have to fill it with a PG upgrade? We're pretty much in the same boat as before the scout buff Before 1.8 we had to use a CPU upgrade. Or is that what you meant? Anyway, you are right. I would prefer a pg reduction on kincats though, since we already have more CPU than other scouts. Codebreaker pg reduction too. Personally I don't understand why they cost so much pg, I mean, surely you use computing power to hack stuff right? Oh, and knife optimisation please. I'm saying before 1.8 we had 2 lows now we have 3 but its gotta be filled with a PG upgrade just to fit 2 kincats 3 shields and knives.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:07:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
IrishWebster Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 225	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:10:00 - [97] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. This kind of sh*t... this is why we like you, dude. Lol
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 135	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:11:00 - [98] - Quote mr musturd wrote: I'm saying before 1.8 we had 2 lows now we have 3 but its gotta be filled with a PG upgrade just to fit 2 kincats 3 shields and knives. I know, I'm saying we only had 1 low in 1.7 because we had to fit a CPU upgrade. Not saying it's not bad now, just that it was really bad before.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 563	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:16:00 - [99] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: mr musturd wrote: I'm saying before 1.8 we had 2 lows now we have 3 but its gotta be filled with a PG upgrade just to fit 2 kincats 3 shields and knives. I know, I'm saying we only had 1 low in 1.7 because we had to fit a CPU upgrade. Not saying it's not bad now, just that it was really bad before. I never had to fit a CPU upgrade on my minmitar before 1.8
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:19:00 - [100] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: mr musturd wrote: I'm saying before 1.8 we had 2 lows now we have 3 but its gotta be filled with a PG upgrade just to fit 2 kincats 3 shields and knives. I know, I'm saying we only had 1 low in 1.7 because we had to fit a CPU upgrade. Not saying it's not bad now, just that it was really bad before. I never had to fit a CPU upgrade on my minmitar before 1.8 Sheild HP bonuses negate any further complaining about not being able to use complex shields. Use enhanced shields and now you are an OP min scout TBH. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...

mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 563	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:19:00 - [101] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Yaaa your that guy that runs armor plates on his minja destroying that beautiful strafe speed so no offense but gtfo out of here your a fotm scout
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 563	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:23:00 - [102] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: mr musturd wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: mr musturd wrote: I'm saying before 1.8 we had 2 lows now we have 3 but its gotta be filled with a PG upgrade just to fit 2 kincats 3 shields and knives. I know, I'm saying we only had 1 low in 1.7 because we had to fit a CPU upgrade. Not saying it's not bad now, just that it was really bad before. I never had to fit a CPU upgrade on my minmitar before 1.8 Sheild HP bonuses negate any further complaining about not being able to use complex shields. Use enhanced shields and now you are an OP min scout TBH. I'm already an OP minmitar scout but this isn't about me. Alot of people don't enjoy the minja because its a pain in the ass to fit kinkats and IMO the suit is garbage without a kinkat
Cavani1EE7 The Rainbow Effect 108	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:24:00 - [103] - Quote A PG/CPU buff would make a different 1337
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:29:00 - [104] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Yaaa your that guy that runs armor plates on his minja destroying that beautiful strafe speed so no offense but gtfo out of here your a fotm scout First off, you got the wrong guy. I, occasionally, run an "assault" min scout sure. But by occasional I mean maybe 5% of matches that I'm taking seriously and am not trolling around doing something else. Secondly, with ferroscale or complex reactive you aren't hurting your strafe speed. When I am running my scout I run 2x complex dampeners and a complex kinkat. This is for about 80% of all my matches I run scout. If you need 3x complex shields, 2x complex kinkats to be happy as a min scout then you suck. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 97	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:34:00 - [105] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It is not worse than an assault suit. The worst scout is better than the best assault. Cats are natural predators that stalk, flank and use stealth. Of course scouts following the way of the cat are better then assaults who follow they way of the dog ie rush you, spray saliva er bullets everywhere and then hump your leg/ tea bag your corpse. For a minute there, I was convinced that my scout required skill to use. Service with a smile
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 93	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:34:00 - [106] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Now Eko this is when we sort out the real scouts from the fake ones I say sir u sound like a fotm scout I trash talk
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 93	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:38:00 - [107] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: mr musturd wrote: Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Yaaa your that guy that runs armor plates on his minja destroying that beautiful strafe speed so no offense but gtfo out of here your a fotm scout First off, you got the wrong guy. I, occasionally, run an "assault" min scout sure. But by occasional I mean maybe 5% of matches that I'm taking seriously and am not trolling around doing something else. Secondly, with ferroscale or complex reactive you aren't hurting your strafe speed. When I am running my scout I run 2x complex dampeners and a complex kinkat. This is for about 80% of all my matches I run scout. If you need 3x complex shields, 2x complex kinkats to be happy as a min scout then you suck. Ugh Eko now u sound lke a dumb ass with ur pants down saying hey guys look at me I think I'm good nuff said I trash talk
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:45:00 - [108] - Quote I do SUCK wrote: Eko Sol wrote: mr musturd wrote: Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Yaaa your that guy that runs armor plates on his minja destroying that beautiful strafe speed so no offense but gtfo out of here your a fotm scout First off, you got the wrong guy. I, occasionally, run an "assault" min scout sure. But by occasional I mean maybe 5% of matches that I'm taking seriously and am not trolling around doing something else. Secondly, with ferroscale or complex reactive you aren't hurting your strafe speed. When I am running my scout I run 2x complex dampeners and a complex kinkat. This is for about 80% of all my matches I run scout. If you need 3x complex shields, 2x complex kinkats to be happy as a min scout then you suck. Ugh Eko now u sound lke a dumb ass with ur pants down saying hey guys look at me I think I'm good nuff said LOL, from the guy who's tag is "I do SUCK". I post to contribute. Wanna talk smack then fine but you are wasting space. At this point, over 8 months of playing, I've played with some or against some great vets and have done my thing. They have seen me in action. Some have seen me in PC. I've done things in this game that make me feel pretty damn good and has shaken heads. Got mail messages to prove it. I've given up on being the best and I sure as hell don't think my ADV Swarm/Magsec Amarr logi that I run around with 85% of the time now is FoTM. I mean I seriously run around with my ADV Swarm, ADV Magsec, ADV Amarr logi suit and get a 3.0 or better KDR in Dom time and time again. Find me in pubs and do your worst. Take a video of me being FoTM or playing poorly. Get some evidence. until then you can just re read your screen name until it sinks in that it's the truth. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2004	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:55:00 - [109] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. At best the suit could use a slight CPU and PG buff. at best. All the other suit's have little issue fitting what is relevant... The Min scout is so tight on fitting for even the basics that your always sacrificing.
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 93	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:57:00 - [110] - Quote Well then Eko look me up on the weekly boards rank 40 right now 1.81 KD a week now u can around with ur scrub swarm launcher in bush. Wanting to be the best get your head out of the clouds keep imagining u get a 3kd a game now how is this contributing with running armor plates on a min scout Eko tell me and callin mustard out as a sucky min player he's probably one of the best so stfu that was my final peice on the thread for u I trash talk

Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:59:00 - [111] - Quote I do SUCK wrote: Well then Eko look me up on the weekly boards rank 40 right now 1.81 KD a week now u can around with ur scrub swarm launcher in bush. Wanting to be the best get your head out of the clouds keep imagining u get a 3kd a game now how is this contributing with running armor plates on a min scout Eko tell me and callin mustard out as a sucky min player he's probably one of the best so stfu that was my final peice on the thread for u Weekly 40. Yeah, I've never been there myself ;) I laughed so loud at your run on sentences that my boss noticed. Just keep reading your screen name homie. Don't stop. Just read it until it sinks in. EDIT: The best min scout player I have ever seen will always be Moody. I strive for that. Unfortunately, I get too silly and goof around too much when I scout because it is incredibly boring to scout right now. The matches aren't challenging enough to warrant my top level ability. I can't believe you called me FoTM and then I defended that and your reply was "stfu". I still can't stop laughing. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Al the destroyer Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 149	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:00:00 - [112] - Quote I think the min scout should get a bonus to reduce PG consumption of kin cats. 3% per level would be OK. I wouldn't mind if they had to take another bonus to make up for it. The PG of the suit is terribad. With the way it is now you can shield tank but you give everything else up. Don't even think about a proto weapon and shields unless you want empty slots. All other scouts are more balanced CPU and pg wise for what their roles are. Still playing having more fun than ever cuz IDGAF.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:03:00 - [113] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: I think the min scout should get a bonus to reduce PG consumption of kin cats. 3% per level would be OK. I wouldn't mind if they had to take another bonus to make up for it. The PG of the suit is terribad. With the way it is now you can shield tank but you give everything else up. Don't even think about a proto weapon and shields unless you want empty slots. All other scouts are more balanced CPU and pg wise for what their roles are. I actually like this. Maybe a 3% reduction to biotics (this would include Myfo's and Stamina). PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
I do SUCK Hired Logi's 94	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:03:00 - [114] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: I do SUCK wrote: Well then Eko look me up on the weekly boards rank 40 right now 1.81 KD a week now u can around with ur scrub swarm launcher in bush. Wanting to be the best get your head out of the clouds keep imagining u get a 3kd a game now how is this contributing with running armor plates on a min scout Eko tell me and callin mustard out as a sucky min player he's probably one of the best so stfu that was my final peice on the thread for u Weekly 40. Yeah, I've never been there myself ;) I laughed so loud at your run on sentences that my boss noticed. Just keep reading your screen name homie. Don't stop. Just read it until it sinks in. EDIT: The best min scout player I have ever seen will always be Moody. I strive for that. Unfortunately, I get too silly and goof around too much when I scout because it is incredibly boring to scout right now. The matches aren't challenging enough to warrant my top level ability. I can't believe you called me FoTM and then I defended that and your reply was "stfu". I still can't stop laughing. Uh what's the big deal bout my name huh I cal it creativity I trash talk
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2187	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:14:00 - [115] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: ... then you suck. @ Musturd This Eko Sol guy has trolled each and every Scout thread since 1.8. Don't take the bait. He's only here to distract. @ Eko Sol Mr Musturd is the Minmatar Scout. Always has been. And here you are again, as always, across the table from someone who knows what he's talking about. How can you be wrong so consistently and not be a troll? I call shenanigans. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 340	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:34:00 - [116] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Appia Nappia wrote: Stamina Regeneration is far more important than just have some huge pool of stamina. Especially since there are so many tiny ledges and other things that you have to jump over. The first jump takes 65 stamina but the second takes you down to a third and a third jump drops you to 0. The Minmatar have the fastest stamina regeneration and make Amarr Stamina tank pretty pointless. Not on open ground. That being said, Minmatar should be burst sprinters, and Amarr should be distance runners Raise Minmatar sprint speed and reduce stamina Perhaps I should clarify, I mean to support changing the bonus from 5% bonus to max stamina and stamina recovery per level to 20% bonus to max stamina and stamina recovery per level and 10% reduction to armor plate speed penalty per level. Proposed level 5 Armarr scout vs Minmatar (sprint duration, stamina recovery, and max stamina) Sprint duration: 55 seconds vs 22.5 seconds Stamina Recovery: 80 /s vs 60 /s Max Stamina: 550 vs 225 Sprint Speed: 7.35 vs 7.91 (Amarr with 4 Complex plates: 6.64) Time to travel 50m sprinting: 7.53 seconds vs 6.32 seconds Time to travel 150m sprinting: 22.59 seconds vs 18.96 seconds So clearly the Minmatar is superior in short distance sprints, but say you need to run from one side of the research lab installation to the other? Covering a total of roughly 400m. Time to travel 400m: 62.35 seconds vs 52.5 seconds Minmatar are still faster. Mostly because of their 60 /s stamina recovery rate, 50% better than the base Amarr scout rate and 2x that of Gallente or Caldari scouts. So for Amarr scouts bonus to ever be meaningful the Minmatar stamina recovery rate must come down. It's irrelevant if the Amarr scout can sprint 365m without stopping, the Minmatar will still be faster due to their general disuse of armor and their preternaturally high stamina regeneration rate. Also mind you, that is with the Amarr getting a 50% reduction to plate speed penalty. I started writing this post with the idea that changing the bonus from 5% to 20% per level plus adding a 10% per level reduction to armor plate speed penalty so at least the Amarr scout could run down a Minmatar one but by simply doing the math I realize even with 100% increase to stamina max/recovery and a 50% reduction to plate speed penalty the Amarr scout is still inferior to the Minmatar one with no bonuses. So either tweaks need to be done so that the Amarr/Minmatar scouts better mirror each other in speed/duration or a whole new idea for them needs to be conceived, with math to support ^.
mr musturd 0uter.Heaven 566	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:45:00 - [117] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: mr musturd wrote: Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Yaaa your that guy that runs armor plates on his minja destroying that beautiful strafe speed so no offense but gtfo out of here your a fotm scout First off, you got the wrong guy. I, occasionally, run an "assault" min scout sure. But by occasional I mean maybe 5% of matches that I'm taking seriously and am not trolling around doing something else. Secondly, with ferroscale or complex reactive you aren't hurting your strafe speed. When I am running my scout I run 2x complex dampeners and a complex kinkat. This is for about 80% of all my matches I run scout. If you need 3x complex shields, 2x complex kinkats to be happy as a min scout then you suck. Anything above a basic reactive will indeed drop your strafe, the suit is about knives, knives take speed, speed takes PG? See where I'm going with this? I do just fine with my minmitar but that in NO way means the suit is "fine". I run with Moody everyday trust me he'll say the same thing I said, the suit needs PG.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:57:00 - [118] - Quote mr musturd wrote: Eko Sol wrote: mr musturd wrote: Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. The suit is fine in general. I must admit a slightly higher hack speed would be nice so that we can still hack relatively quickly but without having to still pop in a hack module. Maybe a base 7% per level in Min Scout. If you don't do anything, the suit is fine still. I just can't shake the feeling that a slightly higher hack would make them more dangerous. Yaaa your that guy that runs armor plates on his minja destroying that beautiful strafe speed so no offense but gtfo out of here your a fotm scout First off, you got the wrong guy. I, occasionally, run an "assault" min scout sure. But by occasional I mean maybe 5% of matches that I'm taking seriously and am not trolling around doing something else. Secondly, with ferroscale or complex reactive you aren't hurting your strafe speed. When I am running my scout I run 2x complex dampeners and a complex kinkat. This is for about 80% of all my matches I run scout. If you need 3x complex shields, 2x complex kinkats to be happy as a min scout then you suck. Anything above a basic reactive will indeed drop your strafe, the suit is about knives, knives take speed, speed takes PG? See where I'm going with this? I do just fine with my minmitar but that in NO way means the suit is "fine". I run with Moody everyday trust me he'll say the same thing I said, the suit needs PG. I don't disagree that there is a PG shortage on some level. I just think to be a 10.33 m/s scout you should have to sacrifice some HP. With enhanced plates at 50hp, I have a huge boost on a scout suit I ran with very little total EHP (1x complex Shield). I ran one enhanced Damage mod, 1 complex SE, 2 complex kinkat, 1 complex damp. Now I can run 2 enhanced Shields with the damage mod. Yes, I was paper thin. Yes, it is a specialized fit. But that fit Solo'd two tanks (destroyed both) post 1.8 but pre A-Hotfix. An ADS was aiming at me and trying to take me out. AND A skilled Cal Scout was after me. All in a PC. 3 to 5 more PG or even 10 would make my life easier for sure. But I just don't NEED it to enjoy being a Min Scout or to do well. Sorry I said you sucked. Well, I'm not sorry. I'm actually quite irritated bc all of the complaining about AV has now destroyed any semblance of balance that previously existed. B/C of how CCP has handled things in the past, I have a sneaky suspicion that they will overbuff the min scout. So I took it out on you in worries that the min scout will get a boost in EVERYTHING and suddenly it's going to be another overbuff thing by CCP. To anyone that thinks I am a troll. I have put a contributing piece of info every time I post. Then I'm suddenly attacked and told I wear armor plates or some other nonsense. Than I am told I am a troll. I think it is valid to say that the Min Scout is fine. I guess I should define fine. Fine, to me, is defined as NOT being under Powered. If it isn't UP then I don't think it's critical to look into. I don't think it is on the level of other scouts in a lot of ways but by no means does it mean it is UP. I like two things mentioned: 1) Decrease CPU/PG requirements by 1%, 2%, or 3% for Biotic Modules 2) Increase PG by "x" amount 3) (Obviously Mine but I can understand why people dislike it) a greater hack bonus To justify number 3 I will say that part of speed tanking is getting a hack fast and getting out. Running less HP total would be much better if I wasn't so vulnerable for the hack (i.e. just a 50% bonus between all passives is insufficient IMO). I would like to get in and get out. If that isn't something on the table then allowing me to have more HP would be fine (i.e. increased PG). This isn't me retracting my statement of min scouts being fine. This is my input on changes, if any are to be made, that I believe are acceptable. I think I have contributed often enough, helped enough Newbs in game, and have played effectively enough in PC and Pubs to share my opinion. I have 25 mil SP that isn't wasted anywhere. If you REALLY believe me to be a troll then join me in the game when you see me on. I've offered this numerous times and then no one takes me up on it. Just send an in game message with Eve Time you will be on and we can work it out. I promise, if you aren't a complete D when on the mic then You'll like rolling with me. Just deal with the occasional rant (i.e that F$#@ sprint glitch). That and don't get on my case too much about my Incubus Piloting. I am still new to it. To Summarize. I don't think the Min Scout is UP enough to warrant so much attention. I think every thread should for balance should be put back on AV balance again so that Charlie Hot Fix can fix it. It is in the worst shape it has ever been. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 601	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:03:00 - [119] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: lol TBH the hole scout skill in dust has done more damage then you know . scouts are for SCOUTING .recon .snipping . uplink placement hacking depos and objectives . mobile short range radar . not this assassination suit that EVERYONE runs . they should be war point farmers like logies . the suits and skills need to reflect there battle field roles . this freedom of do whatever you want has hurt the game more then you know or ppl want to admit . cloak should have been for commando only hench the word commando . reskill the trees to reflect there numbers on the field would be good . assaults fastest easyest to get going to heavys longest and hardest to do .going from 1.5mill sp assault to 5mill sp heavys .please rethink what and how you want on the field No. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 601	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:06:00 - [120] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: How about we change the topic to how to nerf scouts? Says the heavy tank driving ADS pilot.... "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2108	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:08:00 - [121] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Yes, it is a specialized fit. But that fit Solo'd two tanks (destroyed both) post 1.8 but pre A-Hotfix. Is the rest of your accomplishments based upon pre alpha 1.8? I was fine pre alpha, it was the cloak dampening nerf that hit us hardest. And all to fix a tanking problem that still exists. I know I have found the suit unplayable since alpha, and in the worst state I have seen it in my 1.25 years in the suit. That could be because it was in the best place it had been just prior to alpha, but given the current state of play, it is definitely UP. It is especially UP at the std and adv levels, which also need to factor in. We can't just say that all those who can't afford proto should not play minjas, that is unreasonable. This is how a minja feels
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 601	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:10:00 - [122] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: @OP: Maybe you might remember me from earlier today with my basic templar assault and standard templar scrambler pistol against your boundless cr and proto scout. ... maybe it's not the suit that's bad? Ya lol i was trying to NK on manus peak....and evey time id see you id run up close and pull out my NKs and you would backpedal...so lol EDIT: I generally only run SG, so don't bring up the whole "your bad" thing. well see what happens when i run my shotty fit lol. Also, my 290 hp fit can get one shot by a ScrP headshot, so congrats bro "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Eko Sol Strange Playings 487	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:12:00 - [123] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Yes, it is a specialized fit. But that fit Solo'd two tanks (destroyed both) post 1.8 but pre A-Hotfix. Is the rest of your accomplishments based upon pre alpha 1.8? I was fine pre alpha, it was the cloak dampening nerf that hit us hardest. And all to fix a tanking problem that still exists. I know I have found the suit unplayable since alpha, and in the worst state I have seen it in my 1.25 years in the suit. That could be because it was in the best place it had been just prior to alpha, but given the current state of play, it is definitely UP. It is especially UP at the std and adv levels, which also need to factor in. We can't just say that all those who can't afford proto should not play minjas, that is unreasonable. Hmmm, I'll agree that I had to make a change on that fit deal with the fact I went from 60 seconds cloaked to 30 seconds cloaked. I will say that I when 1.8 happened I was ADV min Scout for about 3 weeks and pulled off a lot of great stuff IMO. I only run it occasionally since I dabble in other things when I am saving ISK. I think I might have to look at it again. I never put a kinkat on it though. Always 2x complex dampeners. I always run that except for 2 speed fits. one of which is the one I described. Although I was cloaked less I was less detectable by Cal scouts so, for me and my style, I saw no difference with the cloak nerf in that the cal nerf was just enough to help me go undetected with 2x complex dampeners. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
superjoe360x D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 359	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:45:00 - [124] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Same for Amarr Scout obviously Cloak recharge rate 5 percent per level and time to stay cloaked by 5 percent per level for the Amarr Commander, Director of DL and Leader of The SS Elite Squad *Defender of Broman
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 596	Posted - 2014.06.24 01:33:00 - [125] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Greasepalms wrote: @OP: Maybe you might remember me from earlier today with my basic templar assault and standard templar scrambler pistol against your boundless cr and proto scout. ... maybe it's not the suit that's bad? Ya lol i was trying to NK on manus peak....and evey time id see you id run up close and pull out my NKs and you would backpedal...so lol EDIT: I generally only run SG, so don't bring up the whole "your bad" thing. well see what happens when i run my shotty fit lol. Also, my 290 hp fit can get one shot by a ScrP headshot, so congrats bro. not trying to chest thump, just pointing out that a scout strafing that fast and with a proto cr ,nonetheless, should never lose in the situations we fought under.
Cotsy The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 109	Posted - 2014.06.24 02:37:00 - [126] - Quote Minor tweaks are needed, here are a few suggestions: Min: Increase Min Scout PG by 5 - because there is no PG reduction on NK and since you said you can't change or add skills; reduce from 5 to 4 once a NK PG reduction skill is added (if ever). It wouldn't hurt to not have a cloaking sound as to fit their silent cqc assassin role. Plus a noise cancelling effect when jumping down/landing would be great. Just slight tweaks would push its melee role further. Amarr: Increase Amarr bonus on stamina and stamina regeneration to equal that of a complex cardiac must be considered, at minimum. I really like the idea of allowing Amarr scouts a huge scan radius for equipment and a bonus hacking speed to enemy controlled installations/turrets/depots etc.. It will fit their role as a saboteur. If you wanted to push saboteur role to the extreme, allowing Amarr scouts to hack enemy equipment would be something unique. I personally do not like the blanket scout role skill as a cloak reduction, make the cloak the cost it is as level 5 and change the bonus. Right now the bonus kills lower SP players making it impossible to use a cloak effectively. Make cloaks scouts only equipment, solves two problems. Like you said, you can't change it but it doesn't mean it should not be addressed at a later point/hot fix. Also, if you wanted to add a faster climbing for scouts that would be helpful for assassin and saboteur type roles.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 602	Posted - 2014.06.24 03:16:00 - [127] - Quote Greasepalms wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Greasepalms wrote: @OP: Maybe you might remember me from earlier today with my basic templar assault and standard templar scrambler pistol against your boundless cr and proto scout. ... maybe it's not the suit that's bad? Ya lol i was trying to NK on manus peak....and evey time id see you id run up close and pull out my NKs and you would backpedal...so lol EDIT: I generally only run SG, so don't bring up the whole "your bad" thing. well see what happens when i run my shotty fit lol. Also, my 290 hp fit can get one shot by a ScrP headshot, so congrats bro. not trying to chest thump, just pointing out that a scout strafing that fast and with a proto cr ,nonetheless, should never lose in the situations we fought under. In the time it takes me to switch to my CR from my nova knives after you start jump backpedaling, you should have killed me with a ScrP....which didn't really happen....(note: I also am a mega scrub) But enough of this, this is a stupid thing to argue about, esp. in this thread. Right now the topic is what can make the min scout more viable for competitive play. "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 602	Posted - 2014.06.24 03:22:00 - [128] - Quote Possible solutions compilation from what people have posted so far: Conservative: -Raise the PG on the suit to accommodate the PG intensive modules it must fit -Change one of the bonuses to PG reduction on biotic modules -Boost hacking bonus to 10%+ Moderate: -Change a bonus to biotic module efficacy -Increase base sprint speed Liberal: -Change a bonus to movement metrics (i.e. movement speed) bonus -Change a bonus to sprint speed bonus Will add more when i find them/when they are added by ppl "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 180	Posted - 2014.06.24 04:41:00 - [129] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: (I am ignoring the knife bonus as it is more of a fun addition than a real worthwhile bonus). I ignored the rest of your post after this line. You're bad and you should feel bad. Eat a ****. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
fragmentedhackslash Last VenDetta. 302	Posted - 2014.06.24 05:14:00 - [130] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Possible solutions compilation from what people have posted so far: Conservative: -Raise the PG on the suit to accommodate the PG intensive modules it must fit -Change one of the bonuses to PG reduction on biotic modules -Boost hacking bonus to 10%+ Moderate: -Change a bonus to biotic module efficacy -Increase base sprint speed Liberal: -Change a bonus to movement metrics (i.e. movement speed) bonus -Change a bonus to sprint speed bonus Will add more when i find them/when they are added by ppl After careful read, and general assessment of my own views and field experience using the ADV Minmatar Scout, these above seem to be a good rounding of blanacing. Now I come from a place where I have a complete full Minmatar build. I have lived with the suits for the last year, and by lived, I mean to say, died alot. I have all suits in Minmatar. ADV Scout, ADV Assault, PROTO Logistics, ADV Commando, ADV Sentinal, and in doing so, I have completely filled the 28 fitting slots and need about 10 more because I am fitting locked without even all suits in proto, yet, but working on a full Prototype (all suits) Minmatar Build. =] One thing that I have found that is a restriction to most of the fitting / risk vs reward issues (and yes there are issues, but several different ones depending on the fitting or role type) is that from my Skill set in SP that is invested only to LVL 3 ADV Minmatar Scout, is that the equipment bonus at LVL 3 ADV Minmatar Scout restricts the suit, in away I agree with this however; in comparison to the EHP requied in sheild ie: ADV Min Scout with 3 x Complex Sheild Extension units, is the only way to stay alive long enough to know where you are being shot from let alone have a split second to react and take cover. This is a high value point; fit an ADV Min Scout (with only ADV Min Scout Skill) with 3 x Complex Sheild Extension, compromise everything else, including your lows, equipment (as you haven't skilled to proto Min Scout to get the full equipment bonus) and also your weapons. Fit and ADV Min Scout (with only ADV Min Scout Skill) with 3 x Enhanced Sheild Extension, just so you can have advanced low, equipment and weapons, and die alot due to the lack of EHP incomparison to every other scout frame. Why is this an issue? A) All assault slayers are now using ADV to PRO Cal Scout due to high EHP, and high straife speed. B) see A. Why is this occuring? because assault suits them selves need to be looked at in Charlie Hotfix, and by looked at, I mean bring all the assault suits up to the medium ground between scouts and heavys, they are not there currently, and get ready for all the slayers scouts, that don't actually use the suits for Scout role to scream RESPEC. But it is what is needed. Slight increases to the Minmatar scout, and arguably Amarr scout as above mentioned. Full overhaul of all assault suits. 1 futher thing; in terms of weapon parity which is slowly comming to par. Minmatar Precision Rifle. As a primary marksman and I say this as not to attract the attention of the sniper hate, I am in dire need of the Minmatar Precision Rifle. See here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2186737#post2186737 Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.

Cogadh Draco WarRavens Final Resolution. 55	Posted - 2014.06.24 05:46:00 - [131] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Same for Amarr Scout obviously Err, Amarr scouts are... Ok I guess Ratti. Anyway why is this yet again another Minja complain thread? Ask Mr. Mustard for advice, he is 'THE Minja' of New Eden. I've seen bricked up minjas kick my butt, minjas outstrafe my speed heavy, minjas just go slash, slash outta nowhere and I go down in an instant... Hell, one guy I'll never forget ran nova knives and the freedom assault massdriver, and could bring the best heavy down without being noticed... And this was before cloak... Honestly if you wanna beef up minja suit, BE SPECIFIC!!! Don't just say 'it needs a jump'...
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 316	Posted - 2014.06.24 06:56:00 - [132] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: it has the fastest move speed in the game.....I tried it on one of my alts and I like it cause of the strafe speed. Not sure what's so horrible about the suit Let me guess, keyboard and mouse user ?
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3771	Posted - 2014.06.24 07:11:00 - [133] - Quote Cogadh Draco wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Same for Amarr Scout obviously Err, Amarr scouts are... Ok I guess Ratti. Anyway why is this yet again another Minja complain thread? Ask Mr. Mustard for advice, he is 'THE Minja' of New Eden. I've seen bricked up minjas kick my butt, minjas outstrafe my speed heavy, minjas just go slash, slash outta nowhere and I go down in an instant... Hell, one guy I'll never forget ran nova knives and the freedom assault massdriver, and could bring the best heavy down without being noticed... And this was before cloak... mr musturd wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Give the suit more PG! Its insane the amount of PG required for 3 complex shields and a kincat plus that stupid cloak. You gave the suit an extra low but yet we have to fill it with a PG upgrade? We're pretty much in the same boat as before the scout buff KRRROOOOOOM
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 138	Posted - 2014.06.24 08:50:00 - [134] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: (I am ignoring the knife bonus as it is more of a fun addition than a real worthwhile bonus). I ignored the rest of your post after this line. You're bad and you should feel bad. Eat a ****. Ok, so maybe I exaggerated. It is a very specialised weapon though, of questionable competitive value. I do use knives, I just prefer to use a shotgun or rifle for more competitive play. I don't think many people would blame me for that.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1060	Posted - 2014.06.24 20:53:00 - [135] - Quote if the min scout is so terrible than how did i go 27/3 with an adv min scout... the min scout isnt terrible, you just have to use it right. stay away from powerful targets unless you have the lelement of surprise, stay out of the open if you can allow it, dont be caught in big groups, and use your speed to your advantage. i only use combat rifles and nova knives and 3 setups i have and i am one hell of a min scout to be messed with. its only problem would be it being squishy but even still if your good at it it wont matter. its not a terrible suit it just has more weakness due to its strenghs speed > hp shield = armor (proto has can get both to 300+) hacking+NK dmg bonus In Rust We Trust Vherokior Warrior My Honor is for the Republic
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3161	Posted - 2014.06.24 23:57:00 - [136] - Quote Brokerib wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Change the hack bonus to an inherent suit bonus (remove 5% to hacking a level, make base hack speed 1.3) Add a 5% a level increase to kin cat module efficiency Retain the nova knife bonus Add 10 PG Maths for movement: First module = 15.75% Total = +15.75% Speed = 9.6m/s Second module = 13.69% Total = +31.59% Speed = 10.9m/s Third module = 8.99% Total = +43.42% Speed = 11.9m/s ignore these._will not make min scout more competitive We're still screwed when it comes to Cal hyper-scanners, but at least we can be definitively the fastest suit, can actually fit kin cats, and retain the ability to speed hack. Removed all hope with this post
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1061	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:17:00 - [137] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. TBH CCP Rattati, besides a sight pg/cpu buff i would like a slight increase in base shields or armor either buff armor to 80-90 or buff shields to 110-120 In Rust We Trust Vherokior Warrior My Honor is for the Republic
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1061	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:26:00 - [138] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Brokerib wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Change the hack bonus to an inherent suit bonus (remove 5% to hacking a level, make base hack speed 1.3) Add a 5% a level increase to kin cat module efficiency Retain the nova knife bonus Add 10 PG Maths for movement: First module = 15.75% Total = +15.75% Speed = 9.6m/s Second module = 13.69% Total = +31.59% Speed = 10.9m/s Third module = 8.99% Total = +43.42% Speed = 11.9m/s ignore these._will not make min scout more competitive We're still screwed when it comes to Cal hyper-scanners, but at least we can be definitively the fastest suit, can actually fit kin cats, and retain the ability to speed hack. that IMO is a bad idea to remove the hacking bonus, but i agree with the pg buff. if you think about it the min scout need that bonus because it is the first to get in and the first to get out so hacking is very essentil to the min scouts survival. as a minmatar scout you depend on: movement hacking speed isolated or small groups of targets traveling on foot for less attention depending on his/her weapons for being engaged by a target In Rust We Trust Vherokior Warrior My Honor is for the Republic
Brokerib Lone Wolves Club 1446	Posted - 2014.06.25 01:40:00 - [139] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Brokerib wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Change the hack bonus to an inherent suit bonus (remove 5% to hacking a level, make base hack speed 1.3) Add a 5% a level increase to kin cat module efficiency Retain the nova knife bonus Add 10 PG Maths for movement: First module = 15.75% Total = +15.75% Speed = 9.6m/s Second module = 13.69% Total = +31.59% Speed = 10.9m/s Third module = 8.99% Total = +43.42% Speed = 11.9m/s ignore these._will not make min scout more competitive We're still screwed when it comes to Cal hyper-scanners, but at least we can be definitively the fastest suit, can actually fit kin cats, and retain the ability to speed hack. that IMO is a bad idea to remove the hacking bonus, but i agree with the pg buff. if you think about it the min scout need that bonus because it is the first to get in and the first to get out so hacking is very essentil to the min scouts survival. as a minmatar scout you depend on: movement hacking speed isolated or small groups of targets traveling on foot for less attention depending on his/her weapons for being engaged by a target The increase in base hacking speed to 1.3 is a slight reduction over the 5% a level bonus to hack, but only very slight. With level 5 minmatar scout, your base hack speed is 1.375 (from memory). So they will still clearly be the fastest hackers (level 5 hacking with a complex codebreaker will put you at just over 2 for hacking speed). Knowledge is power
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 37	Posted - 2014.06.25 02:16:00 - [140] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. What qualifies as a complete overhaul of skills? Is changing the efficacy of the bonus considered an overhaul (such as increasing the Amarr Scouts by 2x or 4x), or would you only consider us wanting the bonus to effect different things as an overhaul?

Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 399	Posted - 2014.06.26 01:57:00 - [141] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Amarr should get a bonus to scrambler pistols (or just pistols in general?). The light assault idea is a great idea, but it needs to have a unique thing about it that makes you want to skill into it (want to be the best gunslinger? play amarr scout type of thing) Idk, I don't play the amarr scout...but the stamina bonus is just silly. It's like giving the Minmatar logistics suit a hacking speed bonus on top of the inherent 20% bonus it already gets from being a logi (and minmatar) Minmatar should be all about speed. Slots are fine, but maybe give it a pg reduction to kin cats? :O I think that any sort of fitting bonuses should be towards actually using the items. I don't like just basic increases in stats that allow the suit to potentially be abused by another playstyle that wasn't possible before (like HP tanking). A cool option would be to give it a bonus to nova knives that reduces their fitting cost to 0 at level 5. I mean these are KNIVES we're talking about. Leave the dampening and precision to the gal/cal scouts and make the Amarr/Minmatar all about being a beast with sidearms. Just make sure to give bonuses that are only applied if the item is actually being equipped to the suit. Amarr scout should have 100(+40 hp bonus)shield and 170 armor and +5 % bonus to stamina regen rate and max, Stamina per level.
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 647	Posted - 2014.06.26 14:55:00 - [142] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Brokerib wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Come up with smart, simple ways to "fix" it, we'll listen. No complete overhaul of skills, or slots. What does it already have, that would make it competitive if it only had a little bit more of. Change the hack bonus to an inherent suit bonus (remove 5% to hacking a level, make base hack speed 1.3) Add a 5% a level increase to kin cat module efficiency Retain the nova knife bonus Add 10 PG Maths for movement: First module = 15.75% Total = +15.75% Speed = 9.6m/s Second module = 13.69% Total = +31.59% Speed = 10.9m/s Third module = 8.99% Total = +43.42% Speed = 11.9m/s ignore these._will not make min scout more competitive We're still screwed when it comes to Cal hyper-scanners, but at least we can be definitively the fastest suit, can actually fit kin cats, and retain the ability to speed hack. that IMO is a bad idea to remove the hacking bonus, but i agree with the pg buff. if you think about it the min scout need that bonus because it is the first to get in and the first to get out so hacking is very essentil to the min scouts survival. as a minmatar scout you depend on: movement hacking speed isolated or small groups of targets traveling on foot for less attention depending on his/her weapons for being engaged by a target Its not removing the bonus, its making the bonus part of the suit (so you hack at max level on all suits), and then buffing the suit bonus by making it a biotic module effectiveness "Goddamn it! I have to take out my plasma cannon to kill him cause I can't kill him with my flay lock!" -Buzz Kill


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