DUST Search - [Feedback] Planetary Conquest

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

[Feedback] Planetary Conquest

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1740	Posted - 2014.05.25 01:36:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. GÇó To re-establish the value of district ownership as the following: Gùª Logistical convenience and cost efficiency through clone production and availability. Gùª Content generation (as a launching platform for attacks, and a target of attacks) GÇó To facilitate easier entry into Planetary Conquest by adjusting clone pack utility and cost What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk. GÇó Clone pack size increased to 150. This should help more corporations gain a foothold into Planetary Conquest. GÇó Clone pack cost adjusted to 45 million isk. This is consistent with the current price of 300,000 isk per clone, and ensures that corps attacking their own districts do so at a loss. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Green Pyramid ph-clones 3	Posted - 2014.05.25 01:37:00 - [2] - Quote legion
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 832	Posted - 2014.05.25 01:42:00 - [3] - Quote Honestly, I have nothing wrong with any of the proposed changes. I love the extra clones from a clone pack and the encouraging fights to gain ISK. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
jerrmy12 kahoalii Proficiency V. 1527	Posted - 2014.05.25 01:46:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. GÇó To re-establish the value of district ownership as the following: Gùª Logistical convenience and cost efficiency through clone production and availability. Gùª Content generation (as a launching platform for attacks, and a target of attacks) GÇó To facilitate easier entry into Planetary Conquest by adjusting clone pack utility and cost What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk. GÇó Clone pack size increased to 150. This should help more corporations gain a foothold into Planetary Conquest. GÇó Clone pack cost adjusted to 45 million isk. stupid change, lower price to 20 mil or 25 mil, the exploit where isk was refunded is fixed, corps don't profit off self attacking, so lower price. This is consistent with the current price of 300,000 isk per clone, and ensures that corps attacking their own districts do so at a loss. Closed beta vet.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2133	Posted - 2014.05.25 02:17:00 - [5] - Quote Interested in seeing how these changes shake out. Definitely liking the concept of PC ISK generation being an active asset not a passive faucet. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3257	Posted - 2014.05.25 02:40:00 - [6] - Quote RESERVED CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 342	Posted - 2014.05.25 02:47:00 - [7] - Quote So now that all the little guys are in PC to be able to gain ISK by farming It gets nullified While veteran corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA etc.) Stay with 50 billion ISK+ without having to no longer fight And clone packs increased to 45 million ISK a pack So cargo hubs would theoretically take 135 million ISK to take (If you win every battle) And the only people with that kind of ISK are corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA, etc.) CCP Logic Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2376	Posted - 2014.05.25 02:56:00 - [8] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: So now that all the little guys are in PC to be able to gain ISK by farming It gets nullified While veteran corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA etc.) Stay with 50 billion ISK+ without having to no longer fight And clone packs increased to 45 million ISK a pack So cargo hubs would theoretically take 135 million ISK to take (If you win every battle) And the only people with that kind of ISK are corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA, etc.) CCP Logic What you do, is you talk to one of the other bigger corps, you get THEM to attack the districts you want, and you get them to provide the clone attack for half the cost of a clone pack. They then just bring your team into battle. That is then the 'equivalent' of getting passive income for them and your attack is cheaper.... win win
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1898	Posted - 2014.05.25 03:02:00 - [9] - Quote To be fair, I believe that PC exists for two reasons now. Money and the prestige of being the top man on the biggest mountain. Both are kind of no longer working. 1. Economic * ISK is kind of pointless. With the news that DUST won't be getting a player market, money is of no importance. If you run isk positive by .01 ISK, you have officially beaten the economy. Anything that can be bought is sold infinitely meaning there is no supply and demand. Money is not needed in a world of no economy. If PC had existed in EVE with people making hundreds of billions of ISK the game would have been destroyed. That happened in DUST and yet it doesn't matter. ISK is pointless. 2. Bragging Rights. * This is the only reason behind getting a district now. "We have 10 districts which means we are better than you as you only have 3." This causes healthy fighting. The problem I see is that, well, the game is in Purgatory. The future of the game is up in the air. We have no idea what happens to DUST once Legion is up and running. Fighting for bragging rights worked when we players didn't see the end of the road or even acknowledge that the road could end. It is the same kind of thing behind people no longer carrying about raiding in other MMO's once a new expansion has been released. "In a couple of months, it won't matter at all." The problem is compounded with PC because it is frustrating to do. Setting timers of when to get 16 players together at different time of day or nights when DUST has been a far, far more casual game than EVE (I like that about DUST) is difficult. I believe that a better way of doing PC, while maintaining the Economic and Bragging Rights is to bring back Corporation Battles. A wager could be placed on the Battle meaning there is Economic concern. A Corp challenges B Corp to a fight for 100,000,000 ISK that is taken from the loser and given to the winner. That also has bragging rights. "Man, we slaughtered those B Corp sissies and took their money!" This would also allow friendly fights. I would think that DUST Uni would love nothing more than being able to set up friendly fights so they could show some of their newer members to ropes. Just disable or cap SP gain from the matches to avoid the SP farms that exists with Locked Districts. It has all the advantages of fair PC fights and has added convenience. Dunno how possible that is but figured I would throw up my .02 "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9910	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:19:00 - [10] - Quote So... Now the blue doughnuts do friendly attacks on each other so as to lock their districts and generate ISK? Yeah sure using clone packs it doesn't really work, but using clones generated at a district you can generate a good amount of money and then do an even split between both corps. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 836	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:30:00 - [11] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So... Now the blue doughnuts do friendly attacks on each other so as to lock their districts and generate ISK? Yeah sure using clone packs it doesn't really work, but using clones generated at a district you can generate a good amount of money and then do an even split between both corps. So we're going to field a full 32 man match for every district? This fixes things more than it ever could be used to 'exploit'. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3083	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:32:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: So... Now the blue doughnuts do friendly attacks on each other so as to lock their districts and generate ISK? Yeah sure using clone packs it doesn't really work, but using clones generated at a district you can generate a good amount of money and then do an even split between both corps. CCP could always address attrition rates in this regard. Make Research Installations more of necessity for sending troops rather than turtling up between Cargo Hubs. Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army /Gûî /\
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3128	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:34:00 - [13] - Quote lol good move. Dont let scrubs get ISK.
Zaria Min Deir Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 684	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:34:00 - [14] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: So... Now the blue doughnuts do friendly attacks on each other so as to lock their districts and generate ISK? Yeah sure using clone packs it doesn't really work, but using clones generated at a district you can generate a good amount of money and then do an even split between both corps. So we're going to field a full 32 man match for every district? This fixes things more than it ever could be used to 'exploit'. Why would you need 32 people for a "friendly match" that's meant purely for isk generation? Only need 1 person to collect the winning side's isk reward for the clones that get automatically biomassed... Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3083	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:35:00 - [15] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Cat Merc wrote: So... Now the blue doughnuts do friendly attacks on each other so as to lock their districts and generate ISK? Yeah sure using clone packs it doesn't really work, but using clones generated at a district you can generate a good amount of money and then do an even split between both corps. So we're going to field a full 32 man match for every district? This fixes things more than it ever could be used to 'exploit'. I'm not positive but I believe only a single representative needs to show up from both sides. Edit: Zaria Min Deir got it. Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army /Gûî /\
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3587	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:40:00 - [16] - Quote You actually have to kill all the clones to extract the ISK. So if people in the donuts want to try and kill/suicide 1000s if clones a day more power to them. They still have to actively extract the wealth one clone at a time. Some things I posted regarding the clone pack price increase and shift to biomass: Kain Spero wrote: 843 Epidemic wrote: Decrease the ISK cost, increase clone count. 25 million ISK for 150 clones. If it isn't too difficult, a system in place where the more districts you have the more a clone pack costs wouldn't be so bad, either. I'll post what I put in the main sticky. Kain Spero wrote: A shift to active ISK generation is long overdue. As is a shift from a top down payments to a bottom up approach by utilizing increased biomass payouts. The increase in clone pack price would only need to be relative to the increase in size, so for every 10 clones to the pack you added the price would go up by 3 million ISK. That is unless their needs to be an increase in cost due to an increase in biomass payments. The balance always has to lean towards not allowing corps to self-attack with clone packs, destroy the clone pack, and as a result farm isk or lock out their district at a low cost. Also, corporations have been wasting far more ISK on clone packs that have a high probability of failure. There is another side benefit to raising biomass payments. ISK generation shifting to biomass makes it possible to recoup costs much more quickly for breaking into PC. A team that consistently wins their battles can clone pack and take a districts and then proceed to use that district to attack others. In the current system say you decided to take out a Cargo Hub. It would take three crappy clone packs ,that are too few clones to really win with anyways, so expect it to take more then 3 at best to take the district. This would result in an upfront cost of 108 million ISK plus whatever costs there are associated with fighting. You would likely land on the district with 100 clones or less, so you then have to spend at least 5 days just to fill up the district. You would then have to hold the district (without attacking or being attacked) for 2 weeks in order to barely get past breaking even. With the scenario changed to biomass being the primary income source you would need to spend 5 days defending your district from likely counter attacks because you just kicked someone's teeth in. These attacks, because of the increase biomass payment, already start to fill your coffers as you win your fights. Once you hit 5 days of regen (or sooner if you decide to be bold) you can launch an attack with minimum cost and destroy an enemies clones for a significant profit. If you send a large attack (which owning a district enables you to do) you could even wipe out another district in one go. When you wipe out that district you will likely hit ISK positive if you have been defending from other attacks and payment from clones lost in battle as well. As you see with the changes a corp has gone from an ideal scenario of recouping their investment in almost three weeks to potentially less than 1 week. Nothing changes the fact that in order to be profitable you must win your fights. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3083	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:44:00 - [17] - Quote @KainSpero Does the MCC destruction of 150 clones still account for this final payout? Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army /Gûî /\
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 607	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:51:00 - [18] - Quote So the only decent source of income in the game is going away, and is being replaced with a system where you have to grind against other corps?
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3083	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:52:00 - [19] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: So the only decent source of income in the game is going away, and is being replaced with a system where you have to grind against other corps? Looks at Corp Hard to tell if this is a troll or serious statement. Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army /Gûî /\
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3083	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:56:00 - [20] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: 1. Economic * ISK is kind of pointless. With the news that DUST won't be getting a player market, money is of no importance. If you run isk positive by .01 ISK, you have officially beaten the economy. Anything that can be bought is sold infinitely meaning there is no supply and demand. Money is not needed in a world of no economy. If PC had existed in EVE with people making hundreds of billions of ISK the game would have been destroyed. That happened in DUST and yet it doesn't matter. ISK is pointless. We may one day get to the point where people can no longer run full proto 24/7, at which point it becomes a game of balance between competitive edge and the pocketbook. Gÿ+/ Join MySpaceTom's army /Gûî /\

THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 836	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:57:00 - [21] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Why would you need 32 people for a "friendly match" that's meant purely for isk generation? Only need 1 person to collect the winning side's isk reward for the clones that get automatically biomassed... I thought he meant actually fight. Still this will be much more hassle than it's worth for many and it's still more difficult than the current system of free ISK straight to the corp wallet. TDBS Fight heavy spam with plasma cannons!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3130	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:05:00 - [22] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: 1. Economic * ISK is kind of pointless. With the news that DUST won't be getting a player market, money is of no importance. If you run isk positive by .01 ISK, you have officially beaten the economy. Anything that can be bought is sold infinitely meaning there is no supply and demand. Money is not needed in a world of no economy. If PC had existed in EVE with people making hundreds of billions of ISK the game would have been destroyed. That happened in DUST and yet it doesn't matter. ISK is pointless. We may one day get to the point where people can no longer run full proto 24/7, at which point it becomes a game of balance between competitive edge and the pocketbook. Not really people could proto stomp aswell before the introduction of PC. If you barely die then you can get even or actually make profit in pub matches. For example if i die once in a pub match i still make profit with proto stuff. And even if not the ISK that i horded will keep me running for the next 10 years which i very highly doubt that i will stick around for that long.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2281	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:24:00 - [23] - Quote Is passive ISK being entirely removed? Tanker/Logi
Smoky Fingers Red Star. EoN. 375	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:29:00 - [24] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: You actually have to kill all the clones to extract the ISK. So if people in the donuts want to try and kill/suicide 1000s if clones a day more power to them. They still have to actively extract the wealth one clone at a time. Killing something with your own weapons for personal benefit. Kinda like Nova Knife. I make the goons look like they care.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 607	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:39:00 - [25] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: KA24DERT wrote: So the only decent source of income in the game is going away, and is being replaced with a system where you have to grind against other corps? Looks at Corp Hard to tell if this is a troll or serious statement. It's a serious statement. This is especially bad for younger corps trying to break into PC, as weaker corps will be immediately identified and farmed for ISK.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3587	Posted - 2014.05.25 05:42:00 - [26] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: @KainSpero Does the MCC destruction of 150 clones still account for this final payout? CCP Logibro has mentioned this being changed to only clones actually killed in battle. I'm going to check and find out for you all if that is going into hotfix alpha. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15186	Posted - 2014.05.25 08:59:00 - [27] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Is passive ISK being entirely removed? From the looks of it; yes. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Lord Tug C0NFUCIUS 105	Posted - 2014.05.25 12:49:00 - [28] - Quote CCP do you actually play this game ??? 45 million isk for 150 clones .... I challenge you guys to go scrape together that amount of isk and attack NS cargo hub and see how far you get !! +1 for another epic F#ck up !!! You have just made it even harder for noobs to enter PC .
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5756	Posted - 2014.05.25 13:31:00 - [29] - Quote My biggest concerns with this are: a) Whether or not it removes incentive from wanting to break into PC. b) That it seems like it's encouraging fights for the fights' sake. S'like telling America and Russia they can only make money if they **** on each other's boots, but not actively conquer one another. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Zombie Supreme Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:15:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: ... What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. There are some good ideas here, but this will make PC very unprofitable, given the cost of Proto suits/Tanks/ADS. You should of increased the player payout to 250,000 ISK per clone. At the very least, you should make excess clones lost by victory in battle part of the players payout. So if you attack with 150 clones, win, but only lose 80 clones to death, all 150 of those clones (which basically all die) should still go into the payout pool. Also question will corps still be charged for moving clones to attack? Those fees should also be removed. Basically in this new PC world you are proposing the only income corps will earn will be from taxes.

Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation 260	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:19:00 - [31] - Quote Lol where is a small corp gonna get 45 million isk for ONE battle. Welp have fun with another pointless attempt to fix PC. CCP - Breaking the game one update at a time. (-í° -£-û -í°)
Levithunder Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation 260	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:23:00 - [32] - Quote PC's slogan should be "controlled by the rich,designed by the rich" CCP - Breaking the game one update at a time. (-í° -£-û -í°)
Zombie Supreme Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:30:00 - [33] - Quote Levithunder wrote: Lol where is a small corp gonna get 45 million isk for ONE battle. Welp have fun with another pointless attempt to fix PC. Well I'd assume smarter powerful PC corps, would allow any small week corp that wants a district to have one so they can attack and just stomp them to death day after day to make ISK. Thinking about this more, CCP this PC Plan of yours, just isn't really a well thought out idea. I like the clone packs but the rest needs work.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3589	Posted - 2014.05.25 16:46:00 - [34] - Quote Lord Tug wrote: CCP do you actually play this game ??? 45 million isk for 150 clones .... I challenge you guys to go scrape together that amount of isk and attack NS cargo hub and see how far you get !! +1 for another epic F#ck up !!! You have just made it even harder for noobs to enter PC . Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass. Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Sirpidey Adtur Aloren Foundations 142	Posted - 2014.05.25 17:14:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk. This to me, seems to be an extremely bad play. Outside of being paid by the enemy to actively harm your team, there should NEVER be a time in which the most profitable action is to commit suicide as often as possible.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15195	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:18:00 - [36] - Quote Sirpidey Adtur wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk. This to me, seems to be an extremely bad play. Outside of being paid by the enemy to actively harm your team, there should NEVER be a time in which the most profitable action is to commit suicide as often as possible. You shouldn't be getting paid by suicide. The more proper term is fratricide. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Tweaksz Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 106	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:21:00 - [37] - Quote So now new corps, instead of running into brick walls for PC access because of the blue donuts being infinitely rich, you decide to switch that for a wall with spikes and meat-grinders? Pill Popping Madness!
STYLIE77 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 181	Posted - 2014.05.25 20:20:00 - [38] - Quote Yeah... here's the deal fellas. I will beta test a few rounds as that is apparently my given purpose. The math seems fuzzy, this looks like an isk sink scheme to me. Plus, I smell a rat.
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1828	Posted - 2014.05.25 22:41:00 - [39] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: 1. Economic * ISK is kind of pointless. With the news that DUST won't be getting a player market, money is of no importance. If you run isk positive by .01 ISK, you have officially beaten the economy. Anything that can be bought is sold infinitely meaning there is no supply and demand. Money is not needed in a world of no economy. If PC had existed in EVE with people making hundreds of billions of ISK the game would have been destroyed. That happened in DUST and yet it doesn't matter. ISK is pointless. We may one day get to the point where people can no longer run full proto 24/7, at which point it becomes a game of balance between competitive edge and the pocketbook. We don't want that now do we... CEO Whiskey squad leader, E9 , patiently waiting for Destiny and Planetside2, real games... Once Bitten Twice Shy....
CYRAX SERVIUS Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1828	Posted - 2014.05.25 22:46:00 - [40] - Quote Game still broken... CEO Whiskey squad leader, E9 , patiently waiting for Destiny and Planetside2, real games... Once Bitten Twice Shy....

Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 48	Posted - 2014.05.25 23:37:00 - [41] - Quote What's to stop two friendly corps from attacking each other with district clones for forever, locking each other and farming the ISK? If the answer is "Nothing, that's part of the sandbox experience", I want to know how allowing this will benefit the game. You are encouraged to have battles, whatever. You're getting paid to just to destroy clones. Now if corps wish to continue making money they'lllock up their districts with enemy district clones. Shouldn't we be encouraged to have our districts unlocked? I feel like we should be paid only when districts are not locked, making it such that we are encouraged to leave ourselves open to attack.plus, passive ISK makes more real life sense than active.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3593	Posted - 2014.05.26 02:12:00 - [42] - Quote If you attack with a district then you would weaken the district you attack from and open it to attack. Also, if you think friendlies can organize self attacking over 100 districts every night, fill those matches, and extract ISK more power to them. They will self-stack their own timers and open themselves to being attacked. With this change holding more land than you can actually use serves no purpose. Hold the land you can actively defend or use to attack. Small groups trying to hold huge swaths of land just took an arrow to the knee. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 48	Posted - 2014.05.26 04:09:00 - [43] - Quote Let me put forth an idea in the form of a story. I'm a vase store owner. I've got 5 in town (don't ask why people need so many vases). Jim opens up a shop next door to one of mine. I don't like this. Not one bit. I decide to go to war. I invite a few of my best friends over and we start throwing vases at Jim. He throws some of his back. End of the day hits and Jim and his cronies are out cold. Lots of vases are lying broken on the ground, our inventory is down at the Main Street shop, and we now own his shop. The broken vases are near worthless, they can be sold to crafters for pennies on the dollar. All the fully intact vases can still be sold to Genolution...I mean customers, if we choose. Another shipment of vases comes tomorrow to every shop, so we transfer some from the Oak Street branch to the Main Street branch (so we have more to throw if Jim comes back), leaving Oak with some space. Max shipment is 80, total space available is 400. We may sell as many as we like each day, taking away from the 400 cap, leaving us more vulnerable if we sell more ammo to make more money. Or we can sell none, keeping ourselves fully stocked. Meaning every day you must make a choice, how many vases do I think I can sell and still win a fight with Jim. I'm not saying all of this to come off as a sarcastic jackass. I just feel like getting paid based on unkilled clones/unbroken vases that you sell manually makes more sense than getting paid for the remains, which should be near worthless. Also, with this system it would encourage people to win with the least deaths on both sides. I'd like to hear thoughts thrown around about whether or not this would potentially work for a PC system.
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 74	Posted - 2014.05.26 06:47:00 - [44] - Quote Exactly how do these numbers equal anything appealing to the vast majority of players involved in pc? First, the payout figures seem completely off. If the only change CCP is making, according to the Hotfix description, is removal of passive isk gen and increasing clone "cost/payout" to 200k, then pc no longer becomes viable to both the winning and losing sides. Losers obviously take huge losses, but let's assess the winning team. Avg payout per player under current system = roughly 1 mil Under new hotfix system = roughly 2 mil Avg. PC suit cost = roughly 150k (lowball figure) # of deaths to reach 150 clone pack per merc, per team = 9 # of deaths before loss exceeds payout = 13 Not to mention, vehicle reimbursement is now impossible. Anyone running tanks/ADS will be incapable of turning a profit if vehicle losses are sustained. At first glance, the structural integrity of this devised change to PC seemed weak, at best. In our current circumstance, with district locking all but a thing of the past, corps are rewarded for keeping their district online and OPEN for attack. The moment the hotfix is implemented, online districts become useless to those owning them. To continue attaining passive isk gen, a corp simply has to have a friend: friendly corp attacks said corp with passive-gen clones, wherein the battle all players use frontline suits and ensure that 149 defender clones are destroyed & obviously cloning out the attackers. This maximizes payout for both sides (if losers get paid...if not, kill 150 attackers with 0 defender loss.) NOW, a corp will only have a chance of making isk in MH if they LOCK their districts and FARM them. GL to small corps attempting to remove the incumbents that have saved passive isk for so long, able to fund their players literally throwing full proto fits/vehicles --> running corps broke through wars of attrition. This hotfix will effectively retire anyone STILL playing for the sole competitive aspect provided by PC. If somehow I am misguided or my calculations are off, please correct me ASAP. From what I see, veterans have zero reason to continue PC unless it is to blow their stockpiled isk - small corps invest an enormous risk into a seemingly minimal profit margin. It appears the future of MH is a land desolate with either self-locking isk farmers, or noob corps with nothing left to fight for (and/or no one left TO fight.)
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4260	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:28:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. . That is a short term solution to appease idealists who haven't thought anything through. Say I defeat everybody in PC and take 100%. I'm so good in fact that my team manages to completely de-moralize every last team in PC into refusing to fight. So now I'm sitting on an empire that generates no income. What kind of a stupid system is that and why did we even bother taking land if it does nothing? Never mind the economical pointlessness of the concept, it'd just be bad game design. Win everything and get nothing. Great idea. The only reason you would remove passive income is to appease bad players who never belonged in PC in the first place. Bad players losing in a territory war is a normal thing, it's supposed to happen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's what a slippery slope is and it's working exactly how it needs to.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 406	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:54:00 - [46] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: You actually have to kill all the clones to extract the ISK. So if people in the donuts want to try and kill/suicide 1000s if clones a day more power to them. They still have to actively extract the wealth one clone at a time. Some things I posted regarding the clone pack price increase and shift to biomass: Kain Spero wrote: 843 Epidemic wrote: Decrease the ISK cost, increase clone count. 25 million ISK for 150 clones. If it isn't too difficult, a system in place where the more districts you have the more a clone pack costs wouldn't be so bad, either. I'll post what I put in the main sticky. Kain Spero wrote: A shift to active ISK generation is long overdue. As is a shift from a top down payments to a bottom up approach by utilizing increased biomass payouts. The increase in clone pack price would only need to be relative to the increase in size, so for every 10 clones to the pack you added the price would go up by 3 million ISK. That is unless their needs to be an increase in cost due to an increase in biomass payments. The balance always has to lean towards not allowing corps to self-attack with clone packs, destroy the clone pack, and as a result farm isk or lock out their district at a low cost. Also, corporations have been wasting far more ISK on clone packs that have a high probability of failure. There is another side benefit to raising biomass payments. ISK generation shifting to biomass makes it possible to recoup costs much more quickly for breaking into PC. A team that consistently wins their battles can clone pack and take a districts and then proceed to use that district to attack others. In the current system say you decided to take out a Cargo Hub. It would take three crappy clone packs ,that are too few clones to really win with anyways, so expect it to take more then 3 at best to take the district. This would result in an upfront cost of 108 million ISK plus whatever costs there are associated with fighting. You would likely land on the district with 100 clones or less, so you then have to spend at least 5 days just to fill up the district. You would then have to hold the district (without attacking or being attacked) for 2 weeks in order to barely get past breaking even. With the scenario changed to biomass being the primary income source you would need to spend 5 days defending your district from likely counter attacks because you just kicked someone's teeth in. These attacks, because of the increase biomass payment, already start to fill your coffers as you win your fights. Once you hit 5 days of regen (or sooner if you decide to be bold) you can launch an attack with minimum cost and destroy an enemies clones for a significant profit. If you send a large attack (which owning a district enables you to do) you could even wipe out another district in one go. When you wipe out that district you will likely hit ISK positive if you have been defending from other attacks and payment from clones lost in battle as well. As you see with the changes a corp has gone from an ideal scenario of recouping their investment in almost three weeks to potentially less than 1 week. Nothing changes the fact that in order to be profitable you must win your fights. alts ftw. Who cares about kd on a throw-away, if all it requires is a starter fit. Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1391	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:50:00 - [47] - Quote It's about time this was done... I'll be very honest though. It's too bad the damage was done. Dust could have been a lot more popular if the presence of ULTRA RICH, DISTRICT LOCKING, MECHANIC ABUSING, try-hards didn't ruin it for every Blueberry they encountered in pubs because they were bored from locking their own districts. They literally locked their districts and stomped on newberries because they didn't have many fights. Add to that, that they were willing to throw massive amounts of isk at anyone who was half competent against them like the time this guys from Nyan San kept bringing out pythons to try and ram my incubus. In the end he brought out 7 and kept losing them because I kept baiting him into walls and the ground. Dust could have made a whole lot of more money if they did not let this mechanic get to where it got. Some people got fat and happy out of it and ruined the game for many others. Like I said, if you were a Newberry they would stomp you and if you where half decent they would thow infinite amounts of isk at you till they won. I would seriously ask CCP to reset everyone's wallet in the game. Just for the sake of making the battlefield square. I've grinded all the isk I've earned and I would throw any amount away just to see those rich, mechanic abusing people lose it all. See how they protostomp then when they have to worry about isk like everyone else. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2287	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:59:00 - [48] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Is passive ISK being entirely removed? From the looks of it; yes. Face Palm. Tanker/Logi
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2287	Posted - 2014.05.26 12:00:00 - [49] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. . That is a short term solution to appease idealists who haven't thought anything through. Say I defeat everybody in PC and take 100%. I'm so good in fact that my team manages to completely de-moralize every last team in PC into refusing to fight. So now I'm sitting on an empire that generates no income. What kind of a stupid system is that and why did we even bother taking land if it does nothing? Never mind the economical pointlessness of the concept, it'd just be bad game design. Win everything and get nothing. Great idea. The only reason you would remove passive income is to appease bad players who never belonged in PC in the first place. Bad players losing in a territory war is a normal thing, it's supposed to happen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's what a slippery slope is and it's working exactly how it needs to. We must appease the carebears it must be done. Tanker/Logi
Shepherd Grey Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 75	Posted - 2014.05.26 15:37:00 - [50] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: It's about time this was done... I'll be very honest though. It's too bad the damage was done. Dust could have been a lot more popular if the presence of ULTRA RICH, DISTRICT LOCKING, MECHANIC ABUSING, try-hards didn't ruin it for every Blueberry they encountered in pubs because they were bored from locking their own districts. They literally locked their districts and stomped on newberries because they didn't have many fights. Add to that, that they were willing to throw massive amounts of isk at anyone who was half competent against them like the time this guys from Nyan San kept bringing out pythons to try and ram my incubus. In the end he brought out 7 and kept losing them because I kept baiting him into walls and the ground. Dust could have made a whole lot of more money if they did not let this mechanic get to where it got. Some people got fat and happy out of it and ruined the game for many others. Like I said, if you were a Newberry they would stomp you and if you where half decent they would thow infinite amounts of isk at you till they won. I would seriously ask CCP to reset everyone's wallet in the game. Just for the sake of making the battlefield square. I've grinded all the isk I've earned and I would throw any amount away just to see those rich, mechanic abusing people lose it all. See how they protostomp then when they have to worry about isk like everyone else. I was a FNG 1 year ago, getting stomped out in pubs. You know what I did? Built a corp, grinded out weekly caps, dealt with the sp/isk gap, fortified team cohesion, got better, got land, lost land, got better, got more land, so on so forth. Never locked, ever. Your silly pub problems could easily be fixed by simply creating "Core" and "Hardcore" public matches wherein basic gear and proto could be segregated, respectively. Sorry, but PC is not for the weak at heart: obviously CCP doesn't understand this simple fact of life. They are risking losing the people that are good at this game to appease those who are not. Other simple fixes they could implement: A corp can only hold X amount of land at any given timer, and X amount overall. Corps without land get a free clone pack every X amount of days, to do with as they wish. Maybe, idk, corps without land in MH get a district that indeed Doesn't produce passive isk, but they can send clones from it periodically as they gen.

Kain Spero Goonfeet 3595	Posted - 2014.05.26 16:59:00 - [51] - Quote All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Tallen Ellecon 1972	Posted - 2014.05.26 17:45:00 - [52] - Quote This is what I've wanted for awhile, but I think the clonepack price is still too high for someone hoping to get into PC for the first time. I think the price should be reduced for corps who own no districts. Blehh..
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.05.26 17:56:00 - [53] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. How does my system allow for shell corp exploitation, exactly? Only so many clones from x many districts are created, and peace provides maximum profit...for the owner. Therefore, not being attacked is what you want so a shell corp is useless. Also, Corp A owns district. Shell Corp a attacks Corp A's district. One person enters from each side, they proceed to kill each other for an hour, making 200k per death. No real fight happens and yet money is made as if it did. This sounds like shell corp exploitation to me.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3595	Posted - 2014.05.26 18:35:00 - [54] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: Kain Spero wrote: All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. How does my system allow for shell corp exploitation, exactly? Only so many clones from x many districts are created, and peace provides maximum profit...for the owner. Therefore, not being attacked is what you want so a shell corp is useless. Also, Corp A owns district. Shell Corp a attacks Corp A's district. One person enters from each side, they proceed to kill each other for an hour, making 200k per death. No real fight happens and yet money is made as if it did. This sounds like shell corp exploitation to me. Talking about post 50. The one directly above my post ..... If corps want to go through killing a bunch of clones to grind out ISK so be it. They are still having to engage in active gameplay to extract the wealth. If they do it with clone packs they loose ISK. If they try to use district clones they open another district to attack. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.05.26 19:50:00 - [55] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Argetlam Thorson wrote: Kain Spero wrote: All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. How does my system allow for shell corp exploitation, exactly? Only so many clones from x many districts are created, and peace provides maximum profit...for the owner. Therefore, not being attacked is what you want so a shell corp is useless. Also, Corp A owns district. Shell Corp a attacks Corp A's district. One person enters from each side, they proceed to kill each other for an hour, making 200k per death. No real fight happens and yet money is made as if it did. This sounds like shell corp exploitation to me. Talking about post 50. The one directly above my post ..... If corps want to go through killing a bunch of clones to grind out ISK so be it. They are still having to engage in active gameplay to extract the wealth. If they do it with clone packs they loose ISK. If they try to use district clones they open another district to attack. My apologies. I took all to mean my idea as well. However, that brings me back to why my idea would or wouldn't work, because it seems relatively unexploitable, fairly logical, and like it would make sense in a real world.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1734	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:24:00 - [56] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Losers obviously take huge losses, but let's assess the winning team. Avg payout per player under current system = roughly 1 mil Under new hotfix system = roughly 2 mil Avg. PC suit cost = roughly 150k (lowball figure) # of deaths to reach 150 clone pack per merc, per team = 9 # of deaths before loss exceeds payout = 13 There's nothing "obvious" about corporations being forced to take a loss. You're simply assuming that everyone HAS to maintain the status quo in terms of gear fielded in PC matches, which is not a given at all. That status quo is only possible because PC corps have sat on fountains of "free" isk. Now they won't have that opulence anymore, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with corporations scaling back what they're able to afford to fight with as well. In fact, one of the healthiest things for PC as a feature would be greater diversity of gear quality fielded. What if corps had to pick and choose which PC fights they brought prototype gear out for? Just because we take it for granted that everyone runs proto all the time doesn't mean that's good for the game. Shepherd Grey wrote: Not to mention, vehicle reimbursement is now impossible. Again, not impossible, just difficult. Corps will have to switch from having a bottomless fountain of isk they shower down on members, to deriving their income from taxed match payouts instead, forcing corps to actually manage a budget and consider a balance between how much content they can provide for their members, and how much expensive gear they can field in every match. Just like with proto suits, corps may have to be selective about which fights they use ADS in, and this could be really healthy for diversity in PC as well. Shepherd Grey wrote: The moment the hotfix is implemented, online districts become useless to those owning them.........This hotfix will effectively retire anyone STILL playing for the sole competitive aspect provided by PC. If somehow I am misguided or my calculations are off, please correct me ASAP. From what I see, veterans have zero reason to continue PC unless it is to blow their stockpiled isk - small corps invest an enormous risk into a seemingly minimal profit margin. It appears the future of MH is a land desolate with either self-locking isk farmers, or noob corps with nothing left to fight for (and/or no one left TO fight.) You are only calling the districts useless because you see them as a means to fund blinged out teams, while forgetting that in the process of calling this ability to finance this "impossible" you are also admitting that it'll be easier for less wealthy corps to get a toehold into PC by fighting said corps that "cant afford" to bling out their troops anymore. Owning a PC district should ALWAYS have been about content generation, not raw wealth. At the heart of every PC debate has always been the issue about how to bring the most fights to the most people. The only reason that self-locking is so prevalent in the current environment is that the labor involved is tolerable enough to be worth the profit. Turn that self-locking into a boring grindfest, and you're going to see a lot more corps just say "**** it, we'd rather just fight people" for a similar amount of gain. We're never going to remove self-locking completely without redoing the entire mechanics, but we can make it a pain in the ass compared to just using a district as a source of fun for corp members. At the end of the day these changes simply force corps to look at their district as a source of competitive fights with other corps, instead of a source of income to cover ALL of a merc's activities in the game. Corp leaders will have to balance district ownership based on the size of their corp and the the amount of content they can provide (or defend) using their talent and resources. Corp leaders will actually have to use the tax system and come up with a budget accordingly, which will actually dial down the amount of expensive proto gear and vehicles used in PC. Yes, there will be a temporary imbalance because some corps can afford to bleed off isk and field their best longer than others (as you correctly predict).....but that isk bleed is exactly what many intelligent posters have already identified as a necessary step towards a healthy economy. I know your intent was to be critical, but I actually appreciate you highlighting so many of the benefits these changes will bring. I look forward to the days ahead, and will see you soon on the battlefield in Molden Heath (with or without your protosuit). o7
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 282	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:27:00 - [57] - Quote How are corps suppose to make the ISK to buy the new and improved 45,000,000 ISK clone pack? And before someone chimes in with taxes, give me a break. It would take months to bring in that kind of ISK from taxes.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1735	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:36:00 - [58] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: This is what I've wanted for awhile, but I think the clonepack price is still too high for someone hoping to get into PC for the first time. I think the price should be reduced for corps who own no districts. As with the changes to dropsuits, modules, and weapons - this is only a first step. Once these changes are deployed the activity will be monitored closely, and if such a price adjustment is deemed necessary (based on the participation data we observe) we can certainly do so. There are certainly many corps right now for which the amount of clones needed to win an attack is a bigger issue than the price of the pack, but if this isn't enough we can still look at the costs as well. Remember - slashing the pack costs without also slashing the clone count only drives us closer to profitable clone pack farming. As a first pass here, I think its critical to maintain the initial cost-per-clone and see how many corps it brings into PC before we take further risks with the pack price. Thanks for your feedback though, this is a valid concern and one we should definitely all watch closely as these changes take effect.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1396	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:50:00 - [59] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: I was a FNG 1 year ago, getting stomped out in pubs. You know what I did? Built a corp, grinded out weekly caps, dealt with the sp/isk gap, fortified team cohesion, got better, got land, lost land, got better, got more land, so on so forth. Never locked, ever. Your silly pub problems could easily be fixed by simply creating "Core" and "Hardcore" public matches wherein basic gear and proto could be segregated, respectively. Sorry, but PC is not for the weak at heart: obviously CCP doesn't understand this simple fact of life. They are risking losing the people that are good at this game to appease those who are not. Other simple fixes they could implement: A corp can only hold X amount of land at any given timer, and X amount overall. Corps without land get a free clone pack every X amount of days, to do with as they wish. Maybe, idk, corps without land in MH get a district that indeed Doesn't produce passive isk, but they can send clones from it periodically as they gen. The premise behind this post is that I cannot do PC and it's wrong. I am a 43 million SP player who's experience with PC has been minimal due to PC locking. I have been in about 3 PCs total and 2 of them where locked PCs and then It just sort of dawned on me that PC was crap. I left the corp doing that nonsense. Just because your corp didn't lock districts doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't done. I do Pubs because PC is broken not because of my lack of ability to do so. The isk Faucet that is PC broke a lot of things in this game, specially the new player experience and I was not about to be part of that. PC created some of the worst people this game has seen, not because they changed them in any way, but because it gave a tool for people who are willing to get the advantage at any cost even if it means exploiting a mechanic that CCP failed to recognize. If something like that had ever happened in eve it would have been plugged two hours after anybody gave evidence of broken mechanics. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Heinrich Jagerblitzen Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1736	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:05:00 - [60] - Quote Dust User wrote: How are corps suppose to make the ISK to buy the new and improved 45,000,000 ISK clone pack? And before someone chimes in with taxes, give me a break. It would take months to bring in that kind of ISK from taxes. How are corps (that are not in PC already) making the money for clone packs today? How has any corp ever made the isk needed to buy a clone pack before they actually had districts to print isk for them? Remember, PC is high level content, and it should take some level of effort and time to prepare a corp to compete and enter Molden Heath to begin with. The fact that there's time and effort involved in ramping up towards PC (both financially and in troop training) isn't really a problem. Before I was in Onslaught I was a member of D3LTA FORC3, one of many corps early in the game's history that made a pointed effort to save isk because we knew PC was a personal goal for the corp. Charismatic leaders with a goal for the corp to work towards don't have any problem finding that isk. Besides, the per-clone cost isn't being raised at all here, corps are just buying more clones at a time (giving them a greater margin in battle to win the initial attack with). We're really only talking about a 20% greater investment to buy a clone pack after all. In terms of taxation - that means the difference between a 5% tax and a 6% tax. Or raising a 10% tax to 12%. This is quite reasonable to ask especially if it means the corp is able to provide content previously unavailable to its members. I'm confident that many corps will find the difference between participating in PC or not worthy of this slight additional investment. Also - tax is hardly the only way to raise funds. 9 million isk today is fairly trivial and could easily be found by even a handful of small donations from individuals from within the corp. Again, corp leadership confident in their ability to win an attack and enter MH may even front this initially themselves, if it means greater income once the corp is in MH and fighting other corps regularly. I think you're dramatically underestimating the myriad ways that players can work around a clone pack cost bump to achieve their goals.

ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2981	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:34:00 - [61] - Quote If clones are essentially worth nothing, then that is fine. With a system like this though, there is no reason clone packs shouldn't be 100% free. If an established corp wants to use clone packs to lock their own districts and farm the clones there will be nothing stopping them, yes, but on the same note there is no reason they couldn't make an alt corp or buddy up with another corp and do the same thing. I honestly see no reason that clone packs should not be free under these proposed changes. Otherwise PC will only be for those who already have districts and the barrier to entry will be far too high for anyone to ever care.
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3596	Posted - 2014.05.27 00:12:00 - [62] - Quote Clone packs can't be free due to the need for conservation of ISK. You can't have money appear out thin air. If self-attacking is profitable and requires no logistical burden then the acceptable labor burden to use clone packs to generate ISK will be much higher. Also, clone packs having a cost is a driver for owning districts as districts then still present the most economical method of making war. One of the keys to balance is always risk vs reward. Again the ROI (return on investment) numbers for a clone pack of 45 mil: Kain Spero wrote: Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass. Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC. The ROI numbers for old 36 mil ISK clone packs: Kain Spero wrote: 3x Clone Packs at 36m = 108m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 45m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 100k) = 69m ISK Potential profit after just taking one hub = -39m ISK Days to wait until hub is full = 450 total - 70 remaining from attack / 80 = 5 days Days of full clones without launching attacks needed to make profit for passive generation = 39m Cost / 8.8m ISK in clones sales per day = 5 days That's 10 days you have to hold the district in order to turn a profit in addition to winning the initial matches. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 2981	Posted - 2014.05.27 00:58:00 - [63] - Quote Its not like pubs have any continuity of isk either. This also doesnt include the losses incurred in the use of any decent gear. Being profitable with a clone pack will require a top PC corp smashing some small corp that doesn't have the skill to compete. Which might seem fine on its own but the barrier to entry for any new corp is far too high. Completely active ISK with such a substantial price on clone packs means you pretty much cannot compete without districts... similar to how it is now. The math looks great for a corp already in PC but for corps that are not.. its pretty much impossible to get in... Even if you limit a corp to a single clone pack attack per day or something. There has gotta be a better way to lower the barrier to entry for corps without districts.
Heinrich Jagerblitzen Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1738	Posted - 2014.05.27 09:15:00 - [64] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: The math looks great for a corp already in PC but for corps that are not.. its pretty much impossible to get in... I hope you realize that now that you've said this, some corp is going to go out of their way to prove you horribly wrong. That's always how these things work.
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 28	Posted - 2014.05.27 10:06:00 - [65] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. . That is a short term solution to appease idealists who haven't thought anything through. Say I defeat everybody in PC and take 100%. I'm so good in fact that my team manages to completely de-moralize every last team in PC into refusing to fight. So now I'm sitting on an empire that generates no income. What kind of a stupid system is that and why did we even bother taking land if it does nothing? Never mind the economical pointlessness of the concept, it'd just be bad game design. Win everything and get nothing. Great idea. The only reason you would remove passive income is to appease bad players who never belonged in PC in the first place. Bad players losing in a territory war is a normal thing, it's supposed to happen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's what a slippery slope is and it's working exactly how it needs to. Those tears man... those tears...
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 28	Posted - 2014.05.27 10:09:00 - [66] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: I've grinded all the isk I've earned and I would throw any amount away just to see those rich, mechanic abusing people lose it all. See how they protostomp then when they have to worry about isk like everyone else. ^ I agree with Ghaz Also, buff plasma cannons!
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 28	Posted - 2014.05.27 10:25:00 - [67] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: We must appease the carebears it must be done. YOU, the district lockers, are the carebears. If you did not lock districts before, you would not be against this change. Scrubs.
Titus Stryker Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 353	Posted - 2014.05.27 10:28:00 - [68] - Quote I still don't understand how this will be helpful, hopefully that is because I am not so bright and the smarties have it figured out rather than it just being a bad system. I stream DUST on YouTube
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 282	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:07:00 - [69] - Quote Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: Dust User wrote: How are corps suppose to make the ISK to buy the new and improved 45,000,000 ISK clone pack? And before someone chimes in with taxes, give me a break. It would take months to bring in that kind of ISK from taxes. Snappy quick answer: How long does it take a single player to earn 9 million (the price difference in clone pack) by grinding pubs using BPO gear? Are you really trying to make the case that corps suddenly have to spend months longer to get into PC? Give me a break. Longer serious bizness answer: How are corps (that are not in PC already) making the money for clone packs today? How has any corp ever made the isk needed to buy a clone pack before they actually had districts to print isk for them? Remember, PC is high level content, and it should take some level of effort and time to prepare a corp to compete and enter Molden Heath to begin with. The fact that there's time and effort involved in ramping up towards PC (both financially and in troop training) isn't really a problem. Before I was in Onslaught I was a member of D3LTA FORC3, one of many corps early in the game's history that made a pointed effort to save isk because we knew PC was a personal goal for the corp. Charismatic leaders with a goal for the corp to work towards don't have any problem finding that isk. Besides, the per-clone cost isn't being raised at all here, corps are just buying more clones at a time (giving them a greater margin in battle to win the initial attack with). We're really only talking about a 20% greater investment to buy a clone pack after all. In terms of taxation - that means the difference between a 5% tax and a 6% tax. Or raising a 10% tax to 12%. This is quite reasonable to ask especially if it means the corp is able to provide content previously unavailable to its members. I'm confident that many corps will find the difference between participating in PC or not worthy of this slight additional investment. Also - tax is hardly the only way to raise funds. 9 million isk today is fairly trivial and could easily be found by even a handful of small donations from individuals from within the corp. Again, corp leadership confident in their ability to win an attack and enter MH may even front this initially themselves, if it means greater income once the corp is in MH and fighting other corps regularly. I think you're dramatically underestimating the myriad ways that players can work around a clone pack cost bump to achieve their goals. Fair points, we'll just have to wait and see how it all pans out.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 292	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:28:00 - [70] - Quote Seriously i can do 2 mil in bpo within an hour and a half, preparing a pc plus the game takes about 30 to 40 min. Why bother anymore. There is no prestige anyway from having a district anymore under that system, although i dont have anything to propose....

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3152	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:20:00 - [71] - Quote I somehow got the impression that CCP thinks that there is too much ISK in the system. And when there is too much ISK then the AUR sales drop down. So the logical reaction is to eliminate the only passive income source. I wouldnt be surprised if the cost for equipment would increase soon.
WhataguyTTU 0uter.Heaven 302	Posted - 2014.05.27 18:04:00 - [72] - Quote Ummm.... what happens when you send a clone pack and people no show. If your enforcing kills for ISK, less prepared corps have more incentive to avoid getting smashed while costing the attacker to lose money and any chance at earning biomass payment. There are already too many no shows. =*(
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.05.27 19:48:00 - [73] - Quote WhataguyTTU wrote: Ummm.... what happens when you send a clone pack and people no show. If your enforcing kills for ISK, less prepared corps have more incentive to avoid getting smashed while costing the attacker to lose money and any chance at earning biomass payment. "Oh but you get that juicy district." Corps will not have incentive to hold any more districts than the amount of battles they want to have daily. This adds to the incentive of no-showing when you don't want that many districts. There are already too many no shows. =*( I guess they want the attackers to kill each other...or just spawn in militia fits and suicide cook locus grenades.
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 35	Posted - 2014.05.27 20:03:00 - [74] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: I somehow got the impression that CCP thinks that there is too much ISK in the system. And when there is too much ISK then the AUR sales drop down. So the logical reaction is to eliminate the only passive income source. I wouldnt be surprised if the cost for equipment would increase soon. Or maybe they did this to enable player generated content, because that drive moneyspending more than removing the ISK fountain. Get rid of your tinfoil hat sir.
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 131	Posted - 2014.05.28 00:52:00 - [75] - Quote the changes look good. It seems like with no passive income, the amount of districs are limited to the number of players a corp or alliance can field to sucessfully defend a district or not. More fights, less territory for a corp to hold, more focus on the corp size being a factor. The bad thing is, its not really worthile to own or defend a district either. I still can't visit it, explore it on some free time between battles, and to be sure to have a fighting chance its 90 milion isk gamble (without paying for the proto suits)for what will not be 90 million isk payout. Especially after a tough fight i would have to buy a new clone pack. Every 48 hours. Thats raising the bar for corps not lowering it. My Suggestions in no particular order. - corps can sell a fixed amount of clones at a FIXED market price, yet only to other corps. -No NPC trading, with a percentage tax. no mony to be made passivley, no clones generated over the pop limit. this makes players depend on the business savy meta game rather than sitting on you butt. -clone sales come out of your district. Sell 150 clones and you lose 150 clones. Defend your district, earn some isk for the fight, if you decide to sell clones, you can make a profit if you can find a buyer in time yet become substantially weaker for the next fight. Sit on your clones no revenue will be generated. The better you defend your district the more clones you will have avaible to sell, Having a fixed price gives every corp an equal shot to make money once they have taken a district. this wy rich corp/CPMs who exploited the gam mechanic will not be able to abuse market forces and sell clone packs at a higher or lower price than the standad set by CCP to be followed for the entire community. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 131	Posted - 2014.05.28 01:19:00 - [76] - Quote also, here how people who already have land in PC can exploit this, especially if they're on the same planet. Move 1 'logistically efficient' or free clone pack to a ''friendly district' a few people's alts show up and get annihilated. Winning team sends money back to friendly corp. 30 million isk profit, or 150 million a day if you have 10 districts(for 5 fights). or 450 million a week.for those ten districts. thats for the 1st week.After that it sort of pays for it self, even if you have to buy clone pack for 5 fights you'll be investing 5x45 mill = 225 million, still gonna make 225 million profit a week, nearly 900 million isk a month. Thats by farming just 10 districts. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Jacques Cayton II Pradox One Proficiency V. 805	Posted - 2014.05.28 14:01:00 - [77] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: So now that all the little guys are in PC to be able to gain ISK by farming It gets nullified While veteran corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA etc.) Stay with 50 billion ISK+ without having to no longer fight And clone packs increased to 45 million ISK a pack So cargo hubs would theoretically take 135 million ISK to take (If you win every battle) And the only people with that kind of ISK are corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA, etc.) CCP Logic I could afford 23 clone packs huehuehuehue We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Zombie Supreme Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 172	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:07:00 - [78] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK In your math you are forgetting the average cost of 200k per dropsuit lost. 600k for each tank lost 800k for each ADS lost. NTM you r number are all wrong most likely you not going to actually kill 450 clones. They will lose 150 for each attack, but you only get paid for clones that get killed. Clone pack attacks are total ISK loss anyway you look at it. I really don't have an issue with the clone pack changes. The problem is how unprofitable normal district to district attacks will be. Kain Spero wrote: If you attack with a district then you would weaken the district you attack from and open it to attack. Also, if you think friendlies can organize self attacking over 100 districts every night, fill those matches, and extract ISK more power to them. Weaken you district to attack? With these new PC the biggest problem of all is there will be no reason for corps to want to take districts, beyond a few. All a district does for you now is give you the ability to not have to buy a clone pack. It is pointless for a corp to hold more then 5 - 10 and that's only if they want to fight everyday 2 times a day. Which I can't see why anyone would because winning these battles best case your players still walk away with less ISK profit then they would earn in a pub match.
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 392	Posted - 2014.05.29 16:44:00 - [79] - Quote The Real PC Numbers & how these changes will end up killing PC. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2184984#post2184984
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 775	Posted - 2014.05.29 22:03:00 - [80] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Its not like pubs have any continuity of isk either. This also doesnt include the losses incurred in the use of any decent gear. Being profitable with a clone pack will require a top PC corp smashing some small corp that doesn't have the skill to compete. Which might seem fine on its own but the barrier to entry for any new corp is far too high. Completely active ISK with such a substantial price on clone packs means you pretty much cannot compete without districts... similar to how it is now. The math looks great for a corp already in PC but for corps that are not.. its pretty much impossible to get in... Even if you limit a corp to a single clone pack attack per day or something. There has gotta be a better way to lower the barrier to entry for corps without districts. I've been seeing this argument but I don't understand how you think this is worse than the current situation where the large corps have reason to hold many districts. Yes, large dstrict holding corps will be able to beat smaller corps if they have the players to do it. That is the eay it should be, but they gave no incentive to hold onto 50 districts so smaller corps can launch attacks against corps they think they can beat. The biggest and strongest will still be the biggest and strongest but there will be chances for fights against others, not just one massive attempt or nothing. Because, that's why.

Kain Spero Goonfeet 3615	Posted - 2014.05.30 06:28:00 - [81] - Quote Zombie Supreme wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Some numbers: 3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK In your math you are forgetting the average cost of 200k per dropsuit lost. 600k for each tank lost 800k for each ADS lost. NTM you r number are all wrong most likely you not going to actually kill 450 clones. They will lose 150 for each attack, but you only get paid for clones that get killed. Clone pack attacks are total ISK loss anyway you look at it. I really don't have an issue with the clone pack changes. The problem is how unprofitable normal district to district attacks will be. Not forgotten. When comparing the old ROI of using clone packs to take a hub to the new ROI suit costs are expected to be equal. The end result in the scenario stands that after taking a hub in the current system you are in the hole over thirty million ISK while you have a baseline of positive 48 million ISK. A positive increase in ISK at the end of hub capture of 87 million ISK. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 44	Posted - 2014.05.30 12:57:00 - [82] - Quote The big fallacy of every calculation in this thread: Assuming that you will be able to constantly spam optimal 200k ISK fitted protosuits in PC. Get guud.
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 45	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:09:00 - [83] - Quote Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: o7 Great post Hans! All of these proposed PC changes kind of make me want to log on when they are deployed. Commando meta is impending on us, standard/adv suits with 10% dmg and high HP. But then, meh, game is dead.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3543	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:23:00 - [84] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: Let me put forth an idea in the form of a story. I'm a vase store owner. I've got 5 in town (don't ask why people need so many vases). Jim opens up a shop next door to one of mine. I don't like this. Not one bit. I decide to go to war. I invite a few of my best friends over and we start throwing vases at Jim. He throws some of his back. End of the day hits and Jim and his cronies are out cold. Lots of vases are lying broken on the ground, our inventory is down at the Main Street shop, and we now own his shop. The broken vases are near worthless, they can be sold to crafters for pennies on the dollar. All the fully intact vases can still be sold to Genolution...I mean customers, if we choose. Another shipment of vases comes tomorrow to every shop, so we transfer some from the Oak Street branch to the Main Street branch (so we have more to throw if Jim comes back), leaving Oak with some space. Max shipment is 80, total space available is 400. We may sell as many as we like each day, taking away from the 400 cap, leaving us more vulnerable if we sell more ammo to make more money. Or we can sell none, keeping ourselves fully stocked. Meaning every day you must make a choice, how many vases do I think I can sell and still win a fight with Jim. I'm not saying all of this to come off as a sarcastic jackass. I just feel like getting paid based on unkilled clones/unbroken vases that you sell manually makes more sense than getting paid for the remains, which should be near worthless. Also, with this system it would encourage people to win with the least deaths on both sides. I'd like to hear thoughts thrown around about whether or not this would potentially work for a PC system. EDIT: What if active payout for the winner was something like: (Number of clones remaining from pack) (individual Clone Cost) + (Number of clones destroyed in battle) (1/10) (Clone Value). Just an idea. Argetlam Thorson here squadded with me last night and complained that no one had responded to his post, so I said I would take a look at it. Argetlam, I am afraid that you are guilty of excessively torturing a metaphor. I do agree with your point however. Having biomass be more valuable than intact clones makes no sense. From a logical perspective biomass should be worth a fraction of what a useable clone is worth. I think however that this is a case where due to Dev resources being too limited to change the structure of PC in any significant way, and the limitations in what we can change in the current structure, the decision has been made to sacrifice immersion if necessary to meet game play requirements. In other words, yes it is stupid and arbitrary, but the proposed system may allow for competitive high end PVP without causing further damage to Public Matches and Faction Warfare. In short, it stinks. But I am willing to hold my nose if there is no better options. It just makes it that much more important that they get PC right in Legion. ______________________________________________________________ That being said I wish there was a way of making the old system actually work. Here are a few things that might have helped. - No clones are produced beyond the max capacity of a District. No automatic sale of clones. You can sell all the clones you want, at any time, but every clone you sell is one less clone in your district. - The losing side losses at least 100 clones. - Biomass is worth a small fraction of what an intact clone is worth. - No NPC payouts to participants in PC battles. The Corps need to pay their solders themselves. - Clone loss rates for travel is calculated against Clone packs as well as clones moved from districts. Clone pack travel is calculated as originating at the nearest high sec Temperate planet. (This makes location matter.) - Increase payouts in public matches by 20% to help players not in PC save up to get into PC. Unfortunately, although this setup would result in some very interesting wars if there were several Alliances involved in PC fighting each other, there are still two potential problems that I have not quite been able to work out. - The first is that it might be a while before a new Corp getting into PC under this system would be able to start generating ISK. So that could be a barrier to entry. - The second is that if the big blue donut formed again and most of the districts were not contested, then 80 clones could be sold from each of those uncontested districts each day, leading to the same situation we have now. I am good at coming up with solutions. But PC might be just too broken to fix properly. While I donGÇÖt like the solution that has been proposed, as fighting for the sake of fighting makes district ownership completely meaningless, I realize that this solution may be the only way to coble together a system of competitive PVP out of the pieces we have to work with. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.05.30 15:51:00 - [85] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Argetlam Thorson wrote: Argetlam, I am afraid that you are guilty of excessively torturing a metaphor. Oh, I certainly don't doubt it. But the core mechanics of my silly story are much the same as a theoretically workable PC system, and I thought an amusing story would facilitate discussion. Because, like you said, one of my biggest dislikes about the changes is that you're getting paid based on what you destroy, which doesn't make much logical sense. As for the big blue donut being something that would not make it work, that should only be the case if there were good sized alliances (that were blue with each other) with enough well skilled players. Remember, many of those not in PC want to break in, so if all of your districts are open to attack because you want to get paid every day, all of those people can launch attacks.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3546	Posted - 2014.05.30 18:02:00 - [86] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Corps without land get a free clone pack every X amount of days, to do with as they wish. Kain Spero wrote: All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. What if a Corporation earned a free clone pack for ever 1000 matches won by Corp members? (The number could be adjusted for balance. I am just using 1000 as a starting figure.) Yes, PC corps would grind out wins to get free clone packs, but the amount of high end PC players is small compared to the larger community. It would be the big Corps that have 500 to 1000 members that would be earning free clone packs rapidly. Of course, to take best advantage of this the PC players would want to be in large Corps, and they would want the members of those large Corps to win as many battles as possible. So to be most successful in PC they would be encouraged by the mechanic to recruit new players, and train those new players to be successful. Because the more players a Corp has being successful in Pub/FW matches, the more free clone packs the CorpGÇÖs elite players have access to for PC. Even small Corps would eventually earn the clone packs they need to take a shot at capturing a district. With less members they would just have longer to wait between attempts. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 580	Posted - 2014.05.30 18:23:00 - [87] - Quote Drop planetary conquest and bring back corp battles with a basic ranking system for who has fought who. Since that will be ignored I will give this feedback: I can not wait to see half of PC holding cargo hubs attacking each other to lock the district and burn off X amount of clones with militia fits. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3546	Posted - 2014.05.30 18:48:00 - [88] - Quote Firbolg Barun wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I somehow got the impression that CCP thinks that there is too much ISK in the system. And when there is too much ISK then the AUR sales drop down. So the logical reaction is to eliminate the only passive income source. I wouldnt be surprised if the cost for equipment would increase soon. Or maybe they did this to enable player generated content, because that drive moneyspending more than removing the ISK fountain. Get rid of your tinfoil hat sir. Wait! Is The dark cloudGÇÖs silver lining really Tinfoil? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Hanzo420 sephiroth clones 3	Posted - 2014.05.30 21:36:00 - [89] - Quote The damage has already been done. It is irreversible, without having a complete asset wipe. Only exception should be to the aurum/officer items, and blueprints. All isk based items, should be be completely reset. All of them. That is the only way the proposed changes would bring balance to all.
THUNDERGROOVE The Last of DusT. 883	Posted - 2014.05.31 04:04:00 - [90] - Quote Hanzo420 wrote: The damage has already been done. It is irreversible, without having a complete asset wipe. Only exception should be to the aurum/officer items, and blueprints. All isk based items, should be be completely reset. All of them. That is the only way the proposed changes would bring balance to all. Why? Not good enough to hold land so take it out on the ones who do? Even worse, the ones who worked for their assets and ISK without PC? Sure. You'd still be poor and people will still have more ISK. >Team quota reached Darnit I have to wait for one of the blueberry shit LAVs to get blown up:(

nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 21	Posted - 2014.06.05 17:25:00 - [91] - Quote im just gonna say this now. you thought the game died down and lost player base after fanfest, well this is gonna fish off what evers left. You do realize a smaller corp to be able to build up stronger needs that passive isk. Its not an answer or a solution to anything other then ccp you will destroy the game. yeah corps like ns, ae and others have made money off of this, is it right . who knows im not one to judge, but from what i saw is when your the best you should have a reward for something you earned. instead of eliminating passive isk completly why not give like a 30 day boost, after district is taking to at least generate money to the corp and not just the players. resulst, you push away whats left of the older players, seeing no point in this game at all, Nyain will be able to hold 100% because no one can contest their wallet with a war. ccp do you ever really think this really is the dumbest action i could take ? or do you enjoy crapping on the players who have been here longest and earned all of this. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3169	Posted - 2014.06.05 18:50:00 - [92] - Quote @nickmunson One word. Taxes. Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2315	Posted - 2014.06.05 23:58:00 - [93] - Quote Is Planetary conquest supposed to be an ISK sink? Tanker/Logi
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3200	Posted - 2014.06.07 19:39:00 - [94] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Is Planetary conquest supposed to be an ISK sink? Now it is cause of the elimination of passive ISK. Words are that nyan san has like 1.5 trillion ISK farmed so far. Which is more then they ever could spend by using proto 24/7.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2324	Posted - 2014.06.07 21:02:00 - [95] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Is Planetary conquest supposed to be an ISK sink? Now it is cause of the elimination of passive ISK. Words are that nyan san has like 1.5 trillion ISK farmed so far. Which is more then they ever could spend by using proto 24/7. I know their is a 99% of it becoming an ISK sink but I want to hear a Dev tell me their intention. Tanker/Logi
MINA Longstrike 836	Posted - 2014.06.08 11:16:00 - [96] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: @nickmunson One word. Taxes. Wasn't aware that taxes earned 8+m isk a day with no effort Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Jadek Menaheim Ancient Textiles. 3177	Posted - 2014.06.08 11:51:00 - [97] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: @nickmunson One word. Taxes. Wasn't aware that taxes earned 8+m isk a day with no effort It appears you are not familiar with how much ISK Darkstar Army was making each day with even a 5% tax Where does you CPM 1 Candidate Stand? Visit the Super P.A.C Contribution Log
MINA Longstrike 837	Posted - 2014.06.08 12:13:00 - [98] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: @nickmunson One word. Taxes. Wasn't aware that taxes earned 8+m isk a day with no effort It appears you are not familiar with how much ISK Darkstar Army was making each day with even a 5% tax And I don't care either as taxes with x many people playing y hours a day is still pretty incomparable to 8m+ isk * day * district. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2330	Posted - 2014.06.08 15:51:00 - [99] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: @nickmunson One word. Taxes. Wasn't aware that taxes earned 8+m isk a day with no effort and if you have 10 Districts, a corp can definitely generate 87.5million a day. Tanker/Logi
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Haus of Triage 164	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:58:00 - [100] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear players, As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. GÇó To re-establish the value of district ownership as the following: Gùª Logistical convenience and cost efficiency through clone production and availability. Gùª Content generation (as a launching platform for attacks, and a target of attacks) GÇó To facilitate easier entry into Planetary Conquest by adjusting clone pack utility and cost What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk. GÇó Clone pack size increased to 150. This should help more corporations gain a foothold into Planetary Conquest. GÇó Clone pack cost adjusted to 45 million isk. This is consistent with the current price of 300,000 isk per clone, and ensures that corps attacking their own districts do so at a loss. FAIL. EPIC FAIL. Newbie Corps with emerging players without the isk before this "Fix" won't be able to match up to the Established Vets of PC or even be able to pay their way in the PC aspect of this game. The value of each clone you place pertaining to their death as the payout makes the match 1-sided to victory choice in terms of MCC victory vs Clone victory which will lead to a full-scale bully of the weaker team. Furthermore, the max profit you make is also COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON CLONE KILLS. Not only will you kill the tactical side of the gameplay, you place a measly amount of isk (200,000isk) in reward when most suits AND VEHICLES (3 times as much per fitting) cost way more. You also increased the price by 9 million isk in order to purchase a clone pack. Anyone who actually thinks that this is good for what's left of this community fails to see that this thread is the problem right here. The people implementing this kind of change are not testing this in the community and or don't really play this game, therefore have no actual knowledge what further detriment it will cause to the remaining player-base in Dust. Conclusion: A HIGHER PAYOUT with MINIMAL GAIN IN PROFIT. PC will become nothing more than a PUB match with GAME FREEZING LAG, maybe even less payout. Anyone who does PC will certainly now never make more than what they spend. The wrong people are speaking on behalf of the community in terms of CPM Leadership. Those who agree to this will be running MLT gear on the way to DUST514's end. Open your eyes to the grim reaper at your door. Later. \|CEO: Haus of Triage\| Join HAUST

Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 185	Posted - 2014.06.11 05:30:00 - [101] - Quote wish i knew the reward per clone before this also the reward per WP would also be a cool number to know here have a +1 My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1086	Posted - 2014.06.11 09:56:00 - [102] - Quote So when are these changes going to be deployed?
Vitoka79 from SVK ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 88	Posted - 2014.06.11 14:10:00 - [103] - Quote It would make more sense when the clones generated on the district could be selled to other corps under the official market price.Or you could give them to allied corps to help them with attacks.But this is probably not a small fix and aint gona happen in DUST.Maybe a good idea for LEGION? DUST 514 open market?Rest in pieces...
ryo minmatar Shishi-Funjin 0	Posted - 2014.06.11 15:10:00 - [104] - Quote My Ideas pâ+default clone generation rate is 80 GåÆchange to 40 pâ+default maximum of 300 clones GåÆchange to 150 pâ+current price of 300,000 isk per clone GåÆchange to 100,000 isk per clone pâ+clone pack cost of 45 million isk GåÆchange to 15 million isk pâ+Terrestrial Combat Officers can join all of the corporation's battles GåÆNot all, Limited to constellation No District Conquest, I would like to Planetary Conquest. THE BATTLE OF DUST514
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 739	Posted - 2014.06.11 17:51:00 - [105] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: CHANCEtheChAn wrote: So now that all the little guys are in PC to be able to gain ISK by farming It gets nullified While veteran corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA etc.) Stay with 50 billion ISK+ without having to no longer fight And clone packs increased to 45 million ISK a pack So cargo hubs would theoretically take 135 million ISK to take (If you win every battle) And the only people with that kind of ISK are corps that have been farming forever (NS, AE, ERA, etc.) CCP Logic What you do, is you talk to one of the other bigger corps, you get THEM to attack the districts you want, and you get them to provide the clone attack for half the cost of a clone pack. They then just bring your team into battle. That is then the 'equivalent' of getting passive income for them and your attack is cheaper.... win win LOL.. Yeah, never gonna happen. What you do is you save up for a month for 3 battles. Then you fight, you win the first 2 battles, lose the 3rd and there goes 135million ISK. The mentality is awful. Clone packs need to be lower in price to ENCOURAGE fighting. 10-20million ISK. The payouts need to be MORE in battle per clone killed. I want to make on average 3-4 million per battle to cover the cost of my losses. Newb


Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.