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Argetlam Thorson wrote:

Let me put forth an idea in the form of a story. I'm a vase store owner. I've got 5 in town (don't ask why people need so many vases). Jim opens up a shop next door to one of mine. I don't like this. Not one bit. I decide to go to war. I invite a few of my best friends over and we start throwing vases at Jim. He throws some of his back. End of the day hits and Jim and his cronies are out cold. Lots of vases are lying broken on the ground, our inventory is down at the Main Street shop, and we now own his shop. The broken vases are near worthless, they can be sold to crafters for pennies on the dollar. All the fully intact vases can still be sold to Genolution...I mean customers, if we choose. Another shipment of vases comes tomorrow to every shop, so we transfer some from the Oak Street branch to the Main Street branch (so we have more to throw if Jim comes back), leaving Oak with some space. Max shipment is 80, total space available is 400. We may sell as many as we like each day, taking away from the 400 cap, leaving us more vulnerable if we sell more ammo to make more money. Or we can sell none, keeping ourselves fully stocked. Meaning every day you must make a choice, how many vases do I think I can sell and still win a fight with Jim.

I'm not saying all of this to come off as a sarcastic jackass. I just feel like getting paid based on unkilled clones/unbroken vases that you sell manually makes more sense than getting paid for the remains, which should be near worthless. Also, with this system it would encourage people to win with the least deaths on both sides. I'd like to hear thoughts thrown around about whether or not this would potentially work for a PC system.

EDIT: What if active payout for the winner was something like:
(Number of clones remaining from pack) (individual Clone Cost) + (Number of clones destroyed in battle) (1/10) (Clone Value).
Just an idea.

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.


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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3543	Posted - 2014.05.30 13:23:00 - [1] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: Let me put forth an idea in the form of a story. I'm a vase store owner. I've got 5 in town (don't ask why people need so many vases). Jim opens up a shop next door to one of mine. I don't like this. Not one bit. I decide to go to war. I invite a few of my best friends over and we start throwing vases at Jim. He throws some of his back. End of the day hits and Jim and his cronies are out cold. Lots of vases are lying broken on the ground, our inventory is down at the Main Street shop, and we now own his shop. The broken vases are near worthless, they can be sold to crafters for pennies on the dollar. All the fully intact vases can still be sold to Genolution...I mean customers, if we choose. Another shipment of vases comes tomorrow to every shop, so we transfer some from the Oak Street branch to the Main Street branch (so we have more to throw if Jim comes back), leaving Oak with some space. Max shipment is 80, total space available is 400. We may sell as many as we like each day, taking away from the 400 cap, leaving us more vulnerable if we sell more ammo to make more money. Or we can sell none, keeping ourselves fully stocked. Meaning every day you must make a choice, how many vases do I think I can sell and still win a fight with Jim. I'm not saying all of this to come off as a sarcastic jackass. I just feel like getting paid based on unkilled clones/unbroken vases that you sell manually makes more sense than getting paid for the remains, which should be near worthless. Also, with this system it would encourage people to win with the least deaths on both sides. I'd like to hear thoughts thrown around about whether or not this would potentially work for a PC system. EDIT: What if active payout for the winner was something like: (Number of clones remaining from pack) (individual Clone Cost) + (Number of clones destroyed in battle) (1/10) (Clone Value). Just an idea. Argetlam Thorson here squadded with me last night and complained that no one had responded to his post, so I said I would take a look at it. Argetlam, I am afraid that you are guilty of excessively torturing a metaphor. I do agree with your point however. Having biomass be more valuable than intact clones makes no sense. From a logical perspective biomass should be worth a fraction of what a useable clone is worth. I think however that this is a case where due to Dev resources being too limited to change the structure of PC in any significant way, and the limitations in what we can change in the current structure, the decision has been made to sacrifice immersion if necessary to meet game play requirements. In other words, yes it is stupid and arbitrary, but the proposed system may allow for competitive high end PVP without causing further damage to Public Matches and Faction Warfare. In short, it stinks. But I am willing to hold my nose if there is no better options. It just makes it that much more important that they get PC right in Legion. ______________________________________________________________ That being said I wish there was a way of making the old system actually work. Here are a few things that might have helped. - No clones are produced beyond the max capacity of a District. No automatic sale of clones. You can sell all the clones you want, at any time, but every clone you sell is one less clone in your district. - The losing side losses at least 100 clones. - Biomass is worth a small fraction of what an intact clone is worth. - No NPC payouts to participants in PC battles. The Corps need to pay their solders themselves. - Clone loss rates for travel is calculated against Clone packs as well as clones moved from districts. Clone pack travel is calculated as originating at the nearest high sec Temperate planet. (This makes location matter.) - Increase payouts in public matches by 20% to help players not in PC save up to get into PC. Unfortunately, although this setup would result in some very interesting wars if there were several Alliances involved in PC fighting each other, there are still two potential problems that I have not quite been able to work out. - The first is that it might be a while before a new Corp getting into PC under this system would be able to start generating ISK. So that could be a barrier to entry. - The second is that if the big blue donut formed again and most of the districts were not contested, then 80 clones could be sold from each of those uncontested districts each day, leading to the same situation we have now. I am good at coming up with solutions. But PC might be just too broken to fix properly. While I donGÇÖt like the solution that has been proposed, as fighting for the sake of fighting makes district ownership completely meaningless, I realize that this solution may be the only way to coble together a system of competitive PVP out of the pieces we have to work with. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3546	Posted - 2014.05.30 18:02:00 - [2] - Quote Shepherd Grey wrote: Corps without land get a free clone pack every X amount of days, to do with as they wish. Kain Spero wrote: All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. What if a Corporation earned a free clone pack for ever 1000 matches won by Corp members? (The number could be adjusted for balance. I am just using 1000 as a starting figure.) Yes, PC corps would grind out wins to get free clone packs, but the amount of high end PC players is small compared to the larger community. It would be the big Corps that have 500 to 1000 members that would be earning free clone packs rapidly. Of course, to take best advantage of this the PC players would want to be in large Corps, and they would want the members of those large Corps to win as many battles as possible. So to be most successful in PC they would be encouraged by the mechanic to recruit new players, and train those new players to be successful. Because the more players a Corp has being successful in Pub/FW matches, the more free clone packs the CorpGÇÖs elite players have access to for PC. Even small Corps would eventually earn the clone packs they need to take a shot at capturing a district. With less members they would just have longer to wait between attempts. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3546	Posted - 2014.05.30 18:48:00 - [3] - Quote Firbolg Barun wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I somehow got the impression that CCP thinks that there is too much ISK in the system. And when there is too much ISK then the AUR sales drop down. So the logical reaction is to eliminate the only passive income source. I wouldnt be surprised if the cost for equipment would increase soon. Or maybe they did this to enable player generated content, because that drive moneyspending more than removing the ISK fountain. Get rid of your tinfoil hat sir. Wait! Is The dark cloudGÇÖs silver lining really Tinfoil? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.