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Levithunder
Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation
260
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Posted - 2014.05.25 16:19:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lol where is a small corp gonna get 45 million isk for ONE battle. Welp have fun with another pointless attempt to fix PC.
CCP - Breaking the game one update at a time. (-í° -£-û -í°)
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Levithunder
Butt Hurt Try Hards Primus Federation
260
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Posted - 2014.05.25 16:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
PC's slogan should be "controlled by the rich,designed by the rich"
CCP - Breaking the game one update at a time. (-í° -£-û -í°)
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Zombie Supreme
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
172
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Posted - 2014.05.25 16:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
Levithunder wrote:Lol where is a small corp gonna get 45 million isk for ONE battle. Welp have fun with another pointless attempt to fix PC.
Well I'd assume smarter powerful PC corps, would allow any small week corp that wants a district to have one so they can attack and just stomp them to death day after day to make ISK.
Thinking about this more, CCP this PC Plan of yours, just isn't really a well thought out idea. I like the clone packs but the rest needs work. |
Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3589
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Posted - 2014.05.25 16:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lord Tug wrote:CCP do you actually play this game ???
45 million isk for 150 clones .... I challenge you guys to go scrape together that amount of isk and attack NS cargo hub and see how far you get !!
+1 for another epic F#ck up !!!
You have just made it even harder for noobs to enter PC .
Again, if you actually win your fights you can recoup the costs of clone packs much more quickly than previously. After speaking with a few people I do see that the adjustment of being forced to kill every clone in battle may need to not happen in this pass.
Some numbers:
3x Clone Packs at 45m = 135m upfront cost
ISK paid out destroying 450 clones on a hub = 90m + ISK from clones lost while attacking (avg 80 attacker clones x 3 x 200k) = 183m ISK
Potentially profit after just taking one hub = 48m ISK
The ironic thing is the worse your KDR while still winning your fights the more likely a corp will turn a profit breaking into PC.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Sirpidey Adtur
Aloren Foundations
142
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Posted - 2014.05.25 17:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk.
This to me, seems to be an extremely bad play.
Outside of being paid by the enemy to actively harm your team, there should NEVER be a time in which the most profitable action is to commit suicide as often as possible.
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15195
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Posted - 2014.05.25 19:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sirpidey Adtur wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:What we're changing: GÇó The resale value of excess clones generated by districts or victory in battle will be set to zero. GÇó The Biomass value earned by killing a clone in battle will be increased to 200,000 isk. This to me, seems to be an extremely bad play. Outside of being paid by the enemy to actively harm your team, there should NEVER be a time in which the most profitable action is to commit suicide as often as possible.
You shouldn't be getting paid by suicide. The more proper term is fratricide.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Tweaksz
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
106
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Posted - 2014.05.25 19:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
So now new corps, instead of running into brick walls for PC access because of the blue donuts being infinitely rich, you decide to switch that for a wall with spikes and meat-grinders?
Pill Popping Madness!
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
181
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Posted - 2014.05.25 20:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Yeah... here's the deal fellas.
I will beta test a few rounds as that is apparently my given purpose.
The math seems fuzzy, this looks like an isk sink scheme to me.
Plus, I smell a rat.
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CYRAX SERVIUS
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1828
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Posted - 2014.05.25 22:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:1. Economic * ISK is kind of pointless. With the news that DUST won't be getting a player market, money is of no importance. If you run isk positive by .01 ISK, you have officially beaten the economy. Anything that can be bought is sold infinitely meaning there is no supply and demand. Money is not needed in a world of no economy. If PC had existed in EVE with people making hundreds of billions of ISK the game would have been destroyed. That happened in DUST and yet it doesn't matter. ISK is pointless. We may one day get to the point where people can no longer run full proto 24/7, at which point it becomes a game of balance between competitive edge and the pocketbook. We don't want that now do we...
CEO
Whiskey squad leader, E9
, patiently waiting for Destiny and Planetside2, real games...
Once Bitten Twice Shy....
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CYRAX SERVIUS
Death Firm. Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1828
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Posted - 2014.05.25 22:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Game still broken...
CEO
Whiskey squad leader, E9
, patiently waiting for Destiny and Planetside2, real games...
Once Bitten Twice Shy....
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Argetlam Thorson
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
48
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Posted - 2014.05.25 23:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
What's to stop two friendly corps from attacking each other with district clones for forever, locking each other and farming the ISK? If the answer is "Nothing, that's part of the sandbox experience", I want to know how allowing this will benefit the game. You are encouraged to have battles, whatever. You're getting paid to just to destroy clones. Now if corps wish to continue making money they'lllock up their districts with enemy district clones. Shouldn't we be encouraged to have our districts unlocked? I feel like we should be paid only when districts are not locked, making it such that we are encouraged to leave ourselves open to attack.plus, passive ISK makes more real life sense than active. |
Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3593
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Posted - 2014.05.26 02:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
If you attack with a district then you would weaken the district you attack from and open it to attack. Also, if you think friendlies can organize self attacking over 100 districts every night, fill those matches, and extract ISK more power to them. They will self-stack their own timers and open themselves to being attacked.
With this change holding more land than you can actually use serves no purpose. Hold the land you can actively defend or use to attack. Small groups trying to hold huge swaths of land just took an arrow to the knee.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Argetlam Thorson
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
48
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Posted - 2014.05.26 04:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
Let me put forth an idea in the form of a story. I'm a vase store owner. I've got 5 in town (don't ask why people need so many vases). Jim opens up a shop next door to one of mine. I don't like this. Not one bit. I decide to go to war. I invite a few of my best friends over and we start throwing vases at Jim. He throws some of his back. End of the day hits and Jim and his cronies are out cold. Lots of vases are lying broken on the ground, our inventory is down at the Main Street shop, and we now own his shop. The broken vases are near worthless, they can be sold to crafters for pennies on the dollar. All the fully intact vases can still be sold to Genolution...I mean customers, if we choose. Another shipment of vases comes tomorrow to every shop, so we transfer some from the Oak Street branch to the Main Street branch (so we have more to throw if Jim comes back), leaving Oak with some space. Max shipment is 80, total space available is 400. We may sell as many as we like each day, taking away from the 400 cap, leaving us more vulnerable if we sell more ammo to make more money. Or we can sell none, keeping ourselves fully stocked. Meaning every day you must make a choice, how many vases do I think I can sell and still win a fight with Jim.
I'm not saying all of this to come off as a sarcastic jackass. I just feel like getting paid based on unkilled clones/unbroken vases that you sell manually makes more sense than getting paid for the remains, which should be near worthless. Also, with this system it would encourage people to win with the least deaths on both sides. I'd like to hear thoughts thrown around about whether or not this would potentially work for a PC system. |
Shepherd Grey
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
74
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Posted - 2014.05.26 06:47:00 -
[44] - Quote
Exactly how do these numbers equal anything appealing to the vast majority of players involved in pc? First, the payout figures seem completely off. If the only change CCP is making, according to the Hotfix description, is removal of passive isk gen and increasing clone "cost/payout" to 200k, then pc no longer becomes viable to both the winning and losing sides. Losers obviously take huge losses, but let's assess the winning team.
Avg payout per player under current system = roughly 1 mil Under new hotfix system = roughly 2 mil Avg. PC suit cost = roughly 150k (lowball figure) # of deaths to reach 150 clone pack per merc, per team = 9 # of deaths before loss exceeds payout = 13
Not to mention, vehicle reimbursement is now impossible. Anyone running tanks/ADS will be incapable of turning a profit if vehicle losses are sustained.
At first glance, the structural integrity of this devised change to PC seemed weak, at best. In our current circumstance, with district locking all but a thing of the past, corps are rewarded for keeping their district online and OPEN for attack. The moment the hotfix is implemented, online districts become useless to those owning them. To continue attaining passive isk gen, a corp simply has to have a friend: friendly corp attacks said corp with passive-gen clones, wherein the battle all players use frontline suits and ensure that 149 defender clones are destroyed & obviously cloning out the attackers. This maximizes payout for both sides (if losers get paid...if not, kill 150 attackers with 0 defender loss.) NOW, a corp will only have a chance of making isk in MH if they LOCK their districts and FARM them. GL to small corps attempting to remove the incumbents that have saved passive isk for so long, able to fund their players literally throwing full proto fits/vehicles --> running corps broke through wars of attrition.
This hotfix will effectively retire anyone STILL playing for the sole competitive aspect provided by PC. If somehow I am misguided or my calculations are off, please correct me ASAP. From what I see, veterans have zero reason to continue PC unless it is to blow their stockpiled isk - small corps invest an enormous risk into a seemingly minimal profit margin. It appears the future of MH is a land desolate with either self-locking isk farmers, or noob corps with nothing left to fight for (and/or no one left TO fight.) |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
4260
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Posted - 2014.05.26 10:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. .
That is a short term solution to appease idealists who haven't thought anything through.
Say I defeat everybody in PC and take 100%. I'm so good in fact that my team manages to completely de-moralize every last team in PC into refusing to fight.
So now I'm sitting on an empire that generates no income.
What kind of a stupid system is that and why did we even bother taking land if it does nothing? Never mind the economical pointlessness of the concept, it'd just be bad game design. Win everything and get nothing. Great idea.
The only reason you would remove passive income is to appease bad players who never belonged in PC in the first place. Bad players losing in a territory war is a normal thing, it's supposed to happen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's what a slippery slope is and it's working exactly how it needs to. |
Spartan MK420
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
406
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Posted - 2014.05.26 10:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:You actually have to kill all the clones to extract the ISK. So if people in the donuts want to try and kill/suicide 1000s if clones a day more power to them. They still have to actively extract the wealth one clone at a time. Some things I posted regarding the clone pack price increase and shift to biomass: Kain Spero wrote:843 Epidemic wrote: Decrease the ISK cost, increase clone count.
25 million ISK for 150 clones.
If it isn't too difficult, a system in place where the more districts you have the more a clone pack costs wouldn't be so bad, either. I'll post what I put in the main sticky. Kain Spero wrote: A shift to active ISK generation is long overdue. As is a shift from a top down payments to a bottom up approach by utilizing increased biomass payouts. The increase in clone pack price would only need to be relative to the increase in size, so for every 10 clones to the pack you added the price would go up by 3 million ISK. That is unless their needs to be an increase in cost due to an increase in biomass payments. The balance always has to lean towards not allowing corps to self-attack with clone packs, destroy the clone pack, and as a result farm isk or lock out their district at a low cost. Also, corporations have been wasting far more ISK on clone packs that have a high probability of failure.
There is another side benefit to raising biomass payments. ISK generation shifting to biomass makes it possible to recoup costs much more quickly for breaking into PC. A team that consistently wins their battles can clone pack and take a districts and then proceed to use that district to attack others. In the current system say you decided to take out a Cargo Hub. It would take three crappy clone packs ,that are too few clones to really win with anyways, so expect it to take more then 3 at best to take the district. This would result in an upfront cost of 108 million ISK plus whatever costs there are associated with fighting. You would likely land on the district with 100 clones or less, so you then have to spend at least 5 days just to fill up the district. You would then have to hold the district (without attacking or being attacked) for 2 weeks in order to barely get past breaking even. With the scenario changed to biomass being the primary income source you would need to spend 5 days defending your district from likely counter attacks because you just kicked someone's teeth in. These attacks, because of the increase biomass payment, already start to fill your coffers as you win your fights. Once you hit 5 days of regen (or sooner if you decide to be bold) you can launch an attack with minimum cost and destroy an enemies clones for a significant profit. If you send a large attack (which owning a district enables you to do) you could even wipe out another district in one go. When you wipe out that district you will likely hit ISK positive if you have been defending from other attacks and payment from clones lost in battle as well. As you see with the changes a corp has gone from an ideal scenario of recouping their investment in almost three weeks to potentially less than 1 week. Nothing changes the fact that in order to be profitable you must win your fights.
alts ftw. Who cares about kd on a throw-away, if all it requires is a starter fit.
Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V.
1391
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Posted - 2014.05.26 11:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
It's about time this was done... I'll be very honest though. It's too bad the damage was done. Dust could have been a lot more popular if the presence of ULTRA RICH, DISTRICT LOCKING, MECHANIC ABUSING, try-hards didn't ruin it for every Blueberry they encountered in pubs because they were bored from locking their own districts.
They literally locked their districts and stomped on newberries because they didn't have many fights. Add to that, that they were willing to throw massive amounts of isk at anyone who was half competent against them like the time this guys from Nyan San kept bringing out pythons to try and ram my incubus. In the end he brought out 7 and kept losing them because I kept baiting him into walls and the ground.
Dust could have made a whole lot of more money if they did not let this mechanic get to where it got. Some people got fat and happy out of it and ruined the game for many others. Like I said, if you were a Newberry they would stomp you and if you where half decent they would thow infinite amounts of isk at you till they won.
I would seriously ask CCP to reset everyone's wallet in the game. Just for the sake of making the battlefield square.
I've grinded all the isk I've earned and I would throw any amount away just to see those rich, mechanic abusing people lose it all. See how they protostomp then when they have to worry about isk like everyone else.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
2287
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Posted - 2014.05.26 11:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Is passive ISK being entirely removed? From the looks of it; yes. Face Palm.
Tanker/Logi
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Benjamin Ciscko
The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance
2287
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Posted - 2014.05.26 12:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
As part of Hotfix alpha we will be making a few changes to the Planetary Conquest system. Goals: GÇó To replace income from passive sources with an increase in active income earned by fighting in Planetary Conquest battles. . That is a short term solution to appease idealists who haven't thought anything through. Say I defeat everybody in PC and take 100%. I'm so good in fact that my team manages to completely de-moralize every last team in PC into refusing to fight. So now I'm sitting on an empire that generates no income. What kind of a stupid system is that and why did we even bother taking land if it does nothing? Never mind the economical pointlessness of the concept, it'd just be bad game design. Win everything and get nothing. Great idea. The only reason you would remove passive income is to appease bad players who never belonged in PC in the first place. Bad players losing in a territory war is a normal thing, it's supposed to happen. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. That's what a slippery slope is and it's working exactly how it needs to. We must appease the carebears it must be done.
Tanker/Logi
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Shepherd Grey
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
75
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Posted - 2014.05.26 15:37:00 -
[50] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:It's about time this was done... I'll be very honest though. It's too bad the damage was done. Dust could have been a lot more popular if the presence of ULTRA RICH, DISTRICT LOCKING, MECHANIC ABUSING, try-hards didn't ruin it for every Blueberry they encountered in pubs because they were bored from locking their own districts.
They literally locked their districts and stomped on newberries because they didn't have many fights. Add to that, that they were willing to throw massive amounts of isk at anyone who was half competent against them like the time this guys from Nyan San kept bringing out pythons to try and ram my incubus. In the end he brought out 7 and kept losing them because I kept baiting him into walls and the ground.
Dust could have made a whole lot of more money if they did not let this mechanic get to where it got. Some people got fat and happy out of it and ruined the game for many others. Like I said, if you were a Newberry they would stomp you and if you where half decent they would thow infinite amounts of isk at you till they won.
I would seriously ask CCP to reset everyone's wallet in the game. Just for the sake of making the battlefield square.
I've grinded all the isk I've earned and I would throw any amount away just to see those rich, mechanic abusing people lose it all. See how they protostomp then when they have to worry about isk like everyone else.
I was a FNG 1 year ago, getting stomped out in pubs. You know what I did? Built a corp, grinded out weekly caps, dealt with the sp/isk gap, fortified team cohesion, got better, got land, lost land, got better, got more land, so on so forth. Never locked, ever. Your silly pub problems could easily be fixed by simply creating "Core" and "Hardcore" public matches wherein basic gear and proto could be segregated, respectively. Sorry, but PC is not for the weak at heart: obviously CCP doesn't understand this simple fact of life. They are risking losing the people that are good at this game to appease those who are not.
Other simple fixes they could implement: A corp can only hold X amount of land at any given timer, and X amount overall. Corps without land get a free clone pack every X amount of days, to do with as they wish. Maybe, idk, corps without land in MH get a district that indeed Doesn't produce passive isk, but they can send clones from it periodically as they gen. |
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Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3595
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Posted - 2014.05.26 16:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Tallen Ellecon
1972
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Posted - 2014.05.26 17:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is what I've wanted for awhile, but I think the clonepack price is still too high for someone hoping to get into PC for the first time. I think the price should be reduced for corps who own no districts.
Blehh..
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Argetlam Thorson
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
50
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Posted - 2014.05.26 17:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit.
How does my system allow for shell corp exploitation, exactly? Only so many clones from x many districts are created, and peace provides maximum profit...for the owner. Therefore, not being attacked is what you want so a shell corp is useless.
Also, Corp A owns district. Shell Corp a attacks Corp A's district. One person enters from each side, they proceed to kill each other for an hour, making 200k per death. No real fight happens and yet money is made as if it did. This sounds like shell corp exploitation to me. |
Kain Spero
Goonfeet
3595
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Posted - 2014.05.26 18:35:00 -
[54] - Quote
Argetlam Thorson wrote:Kain Spero wrote:All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. How does my system allow for shell corp exploitation, exactly? Only so many clones from x many districts are created, and peace provides maximum profit...for the owner. Therefore, not being attacked is what you want so a shell corp is useless. Also, Corp A owns district. Shell Corp a attacks Corp A's district. One person enters from each side, they proceed to kill each other for an hour, making 200k per death. No real fight happens and yet money is made as if it did. This sounds like shell corp exploitation to me.
Talking about post 50. The one directly above my post .....
If corps want to go through killing a bunch of clones to grind out ISK so be it. They are still having to engage in active gameplay to extract the wealth. If they do it with clone packs they loose ISK. If they try to use district clones they open another district to attack.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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Argetlam Thorson
Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance
50
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Posted - 2014.05.26 19:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Argetlam Thorson wrote:Kain Spero wrote:All those ideas can and would be gamed by shell corps. The foundation is even already set up via all the locking corps that were created back in the days of locking for profit. How does my system allow for shell corp exploitation, exactly? Only so many clones from x many districts are created, and peace provides maximum profit...for the owner. Therefore, not being attacked is what you want so a shell corp is useless. Also, Corp A owns district. Shell Corp a attacks Corp A's district. One person enters from each side, they proceed to kill each other for an hour, making 200k per death. No real fight happens and yet money is made as if it did. This sounds like shell corp exploitation to me. Talking about post 50. The one directly above my post ..... If corps want to go through killing a bunch of clones to grind out ISK so be it. They are still having to engage in active gameplay to extract the wealth. If they do it with clone packs they loose ISK. If they try to use district clones they open another district to attack. My apologies. I took all to mean my idea as well. However, that brings me back to why my idea would or wouldn't work, because it seems relatively unexploitable, fairly logical, and like it would make sense in a real world. |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1734
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:24:00 -
[56] - Quote
Shepherd Grey wrote: Losers obviously take huge losses, but let's assess the winning team.
Avg payout per player under current system = roughly 1 mil Under new hotfix system = roughly 2 mil Avg. PC suit cost = roughly 150k (lowball figure) # of deaths to reach 150 clone pack per merc, per team = 9 # of deaths before loss exceeds payout = 13
There's nothing "obvious" about corporations being forced to take a loss. You're simply assuming that everyone HAS to maintain the status quo in terms of gear fielded in PC matches, which is not a given at all. That status quo is only possible because PC corps have sat on fountains of "free" isk. Now they won't have that opulence anymore, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with corporations scaling back what they're able to afford to fight with as well. In fact, one of the healthiest things for PC as a feature would be greater diversity of gear quality fielded. What if corps had to pick and choose which PC fights they brought prototype gear out for? Just because we take it for granted that everyone runs proto all the time doesn't mean that's good for the game.
Shepherd Grey wrote: Not to mention, vehicle reimbursement is now impossible.
Again, not impossible, just difficult. Corps will have to switch from having a bottomless fountain of isk they shower down on members, to deriving their income from taxed match payouts instead, forcing corps to actually manage a budget and consider a balance between how much content they can provide for their members, and how much expensive gear they can field in every match. Just like with proto suits, corps may have to be selective about which fights they use ADS in, and this could be really healthy for diversity in PC as well.
Shepherd Grey wrote:The moment the hotfix is implemented, online districts become useless to those owning them.........This hotfix will effectively retire anyone STILL playing for the sole competitive aspect provided by PC. If somehow I am misguided or my calculations are off, please correct me ASAP. From what I see, veterans have zero reason to continue PC unless it is to blow their stockpiled isk - small corps invest an enormous risk into a seemingly minimal profit margin. It appears the future of MH is a land desolate with either self-locking isk farmers, or noob corps with nothing left to fight for (and/or no one left TO fight.)
You are only calling the districts useless because you see them as a means to fund blinged out teams, while forgetting that in the process of calling this ability to finance this "impossible" you are also admitting that it'll be easier for less wealthy corps to get a toehold into PC by fighting said corps that "cant afford" to bling out their troops anymore.
Owning a PC district should ALWAYS have been about content generation, not raw wealth. At the heart of every PC debate has always been the issue about how to bring the most fights to the most people. The only reason that self-locking is so prevalent in the current environment is that the labor involved is tolerable enough to be worth the profit. Turn that self-locking into a boring grindfest, and you're going to see a lot more corps just say "**** it, we'd rather just fight people" for a similar amount of gain. We're never going to remove self-locking completely without redoing the entire mechanics, but we can make it a pain in the ass compared to just using a district as a source of fun for corp members.
At the end of the day these changes simply force corps to look at their district as a source of competitive fights with other corps, instead of a source of income to cover ALL of a merc's activities in the game. Corp leaders will have to balance district ownership based on the size of their corp and the the amount of content they can provide (or defend) using their talent and resources. Corp leaders will actually have to use the tax system and come up with a budget accordingly, which will actually dial down the amount of expensive proto gear and vehicles used in PC. Yes, there will be a temporary imbalance because some corps can afford to bleed off isk and field their best longer than others (as you correctly predict).....but that isk bleed is exactly what many intelligent posters have already identified as a necessary step towards a healthy economy.
I know your intent was to be critical, but I actually appreciate you highlighting so many of the benefits these changes will bring. I look forward to the days ahead, and will see you soon on the battlefield in Molden Heath (with or without your protosuit).
o7 |
Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
282
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
How are corps suppose to make the ISK to buy the new and improved 45,000,000 ISK clone pack?
And before someone chimes in with taxes, give me a break. It would take months to bring in that kind of ISK from taxes. |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1735
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 20:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tallen Ellecon wrote:This is what I've wanted for awhile, but I think the clonepack price is still too high for someone hoping to get into PC for the first time. I think the price should be reduced for corps who own no districts.
As with the changes to dropsuits, modules, and weapons - this is only a first step. Once these changes are deployed the activity will be monitored closely, and if such a price adjustment is deemed necessary (based on the participation data we observe) we can certainly do so. There are certainly many corps right now for which the amount of clones needed to win an attack is a bigger issue than the price of the pack, but if this isn't enough we can still look at the costs as well.
Remember - slashing the pack costs without also slashing the clone count only drives us closer to profitable clone pack farming. As a first pass here, I think its critical to maintain the initial cost-per-clone and see how many corps it brings into PC before we take further risks with the pack price.
Thanks for your feedback though, this is a valid concern and one we should definitely all watch closely as these changes take effect. |
XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V.
1396
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Posted - 2014.05.26 20:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Shepherd Grey wrote: I was a FNG 1 year ago, getting stomped out in pubs. You know what I did? Built a corp, grinded out weekly caps, dealt with the sp/isk gap, fortified team cohesion, got better, got land, lost land, got better, got more land, so on so forth. Never locked, ever. Your silly pub problems could easily be fixed by simply creating "Core" and "Hardcore" public matches wherein basic gear and proto could be segregated, respectively. Sorry, but PC is not for the weak at heart: obviously CCP doesn't understand this simple fact of life. They are risking losing the people that are good at this game to appease those who are not.
Other simple fixes they could implement: A corp can only hold X amount of land at any given timer, and X amount overall. Corps without land get a free clone pack every X amount of days, to do with as they wish. Maybe, idk, corps without land in MH get a district that indeed Doesn't produce passive isk, but they can send clones from it periodically as they gen.
The premise behind this post is that I cannot do PC and it's wrong. I am a 43 million SP player who's experience with PC has been minimal due to PC locking. I have been in about 3 PCs total and 2 of them where locked PCs and then It just sort of dawned on me that PC was crap. I left the corp doing that nonsense. Just because your corp didn't lock districts doesn't mean it isn't or wasn't done.
I do Pubs because PC is broken not because of my lack of ability to do so. The isk Faucet that is PC broke a lot of things in this game, specially the new player experience and I was not about to be part of that. PC created some of the worst people this game has seen, not because they changed them in any way, but because it gave a tool for people who are willing to get the advantage at any cost even if it means exploiting a mechanic that CCP failed to recognize.
If something like that had ever happened in eve it would have been plugged two hours after anybody gave evidence of broken mechanics.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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Heinrich Jagerblitzen
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1736
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Posted - 2014.05.26 21:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Dust User wrote:How are corps suppose to make the ISK to buy the new and improved 45,000,000 ISK clone pack?
And before someone chimes in with taxes, give me a break. It would take months to bring in that kind of ISK from taxes.
How are corps (that are not in PC already) making the money for clone packs today? How has any corp ever made the isk needed to buy a clone pack before they actually had districts to print isk for them?
Remember, PC is high level content, and it should take some level of effort and time to prepare a corp to compete and enter Molden Heath to begin with. The fact that there's time and effort involved in ramping up towards PC (both financially and in troop training) isn't really a problem. Before I was in Onslaught I was a member of D3LTA FORC3, one of many corps early in the game's history that made a pointed effort to save isk because we knew PC was a personal goal for the corp. Charismatic leaders with a goal for the corp to work towards don't have any problem finding that isk.
Besides, the per-clone cost isn't being raised at all here, corps are just buying more clones at a time (giving them a greater margin in battle to win the initial attack with). We're really only talking about a 20% greater investment to buy a clone pack after all.
In terms of taxation - that means the difference between a 5% tax and a 6% tax. Or raising a 10% tax to 12%. This is quite reasonable to ask especially if it means the corp is able to provide content previously unavailable to its members. I'm confident that many corps will find the difference between participating in PC or not worthy of this slight additional investment.
Also - tax is hardly the only way to raise funds. 9 million isk today is fairly trivial and could easily be found by even a handful of small donations from individuals from within the corp. Again, corp leadership confident in their ability to win an attack and enter MH may even front this initially themselves, if it means greater income once the corp is in MH and fighting other corps regularly. I think you're dramatically underestimating the myriad ways that players can work around a clone pack cost bump to achieve their goals. |
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