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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6777	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:32:00 - [1] - Quote They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 864	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:35:00 - [2] - Quote Whut? I've one-shotted plenty of standard suits using a Dren shotgun and no damage mods. I don't even have any points in shotguns at all. Just be as close as you can and when possible, aim for the head.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6777	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:37:00 - [3] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Whut? I've one-shotted plenty of standard suits using a Dren shotgun and no damage mods. I don't even have any points in shotguns at all. Just be as close as you can and when possible, aim for the head. You're literally hugging them. I'm talking 3m range. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 747	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:38:00 - [4] - Quote really?? From what I've seen the only guys not dying in one shot are heavys Plasma Cannons works, any less drawbacks And I would have an atomic bomber on my shoulder
Thanjac Ruthless Chaos 25	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:39:00 - [5] - Quote I agree with Cat Merc. At first I thought they are fine , but I when to adv with shotguns and it does not kill as well as the militia. Maybe I am not getting close enough Proud Commando/ARC Instructor "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 860	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:40:00 - [6] - Quote My militia can take medium-light suits in 1-3 hits, 1-2 for protostacked heavies if its a headshot. I run Allotek and CreoDron on my alt, the Allotek OHKed ANY suit, but 2 SPC is... no. CreoDron the same. With no damage mods. I think proficiency increases ROF. I don't understand, maybe its the hit detection cause Allotek and CreoDron OHKed EVERY suit. Psycho Scout Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- ?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6782	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:41:00 - [7] - Quote http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/615042917253089967/5F9111F8299CF10D98F6D9B50165094E1CE814EA/ <--- To anyone who doesn't agree. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6782	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:42:00 - [8] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: My militia can take medium-light suits in 1-3 hits, 1-2 for protostacked heavies if its a headshot. I run Allotek and CreoDron on my alt, the Allotek OHKed ANY suit, but 2 SPC is... no. CreoDron the same. With no damage mods. I think proficiency increases ROF. I don't understand, maybe its the hit detection cause Allotek and CreoDron OHKed EVERY suit. I hug a medium suit and yet it still doesn't one shot kill ADV-PRO Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2415	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:42:00 - [9] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: really?? From what I've seen the only guys not dying in one shot are heavys I can one shot most mediums, except for Logis. They sometimes don't even go down in 2(which is more then enough time for a CR/ScR to rip through a scout. I'd rather they fix the still buggy nature of the weapon first, then I'd like for the weapon to be looked at. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 864	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:45:00 - [10] - Quote I don't think the increased damage with ADV/proto is significant enough to skill up shotguns. You'll most likely still need to land the same number of hits to kill higher EHP suits anyway. Basic (and in my case BPO) will be what I use, even on my proto suits, once I run out of HKMs.

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 568	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:47:00 - [11] - Quote Considering logis count as medium frames it's pretty damn hard to take down a proto medium frame in one shot if they tank much. Usually 2 good shots will do it but if they have that trusty CR you'll be dead before you get your second shot off often (assuming they're good). I fully support the shotgun's needing more power, especially a damage boosting skill instead of the the ROF and the tiers do not increase the damage enough. The mic bubble bug... I yield, CCP will be fixing it SOON. Current ETA 1 year since bug
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 527	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:49:00 - [12] - Quote I don't know man, I get dropped in 2 shots easy by militia shotguns all the time, and i'm running an enhanced min assault with 2 enhanced armor plates and an enhanced shield extender. Grant it I don't know what kind of damage mods the attackers were running, but they still seem pretty damn strong. I could get on board with an optimal range increase and dispertion decrease (we are how far in the future and they don't make chokes?) but i'm not sure about a straight damage increase. I haven't failed 10,000 times, i've successfully found 10,000 ways that won't work. Thomas Edison
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1749	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:52:00 - [13] - Quote I never understood why Shotgun doesn't get a Proficiency damage boost. Without that, it stays a perpetual noob killer and that's about it. Some pros do well with it, but those same people would do well with just about anything. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 513	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:52:00 - [14] - Quote Who says a shotgun should kill suits in one shot?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6782	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:52:00 - [15] - Quote Dunk Mujunk wrote: I don't know man, I get dropped in 2 shots easy by militia shotguns all the time, and i'm running an enhanced min assault with 2 enhanced armor plates and an enhanced shield extender. Grant it I don't know what kind of damage mods the attackers were running, but they still seem pretty damn strong. I could get on board with an optimal range increase and dispertion decrease (we are how far in the future and they don't make chokes?) but i'm not sure about a straight damage increase. You should get killed by ONE shot. The shotgun's range is 4 meters. Jus think about it for a second. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6782	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:53:00 - [16] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Who says a shotgun should kill suits in one shot? I do. Bad DPS, 4m range, slow fire rate... Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Thanjac Ruthless Chaos 25	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:54:00 - [17] - Quote That RoF boost might be nice, might have to go proto to get it Proud Commando/ARC Instructor "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 252	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:55:00 - [18] - Quote A little (1 or 2 meters) would be helpful too. The range is so short that sometime I have had people accidentally avoid my shots because they walked to the left a little. Then I die because they strafe and leap so bad that it becomes extremely hard to hit them with such a close range weapon. It's sad when I barely kill (or even lose) to someone with a CR simply because he happened to move slightly to the left and managed to dodge most of my shots. It would also be nice if you didn't move quite as fast when moving left/right or backward. I am not sure if the speed is exactly the same as your forward speed but it feels like it.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2359	Posted - 2014.02.25 17:59:00 - [19] - Quote I would tend to assert shotguns are fine. In PC really good players using them do just as well if not better than really good players using other weapons. This isn't the end all be all, but you certainly see shotguns getting more kills than a lot of other weapons. All i've ever heard about complaint wise from my particular shotties is not the range but the hit detection...even in pubs, being spotty at times. CEO: FA B3RT > PFBHz > TP > IMP > FA @ZataraRought Skype: Zatara.Rought
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 983	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:07:00 - [20] - Quote Make operations +5% ROF per level Make proficiency +3% damage per level Increase optimal and effective range by 2 meters Fixed shotgun

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 569	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:13:00 - [21] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Make operations +5% ROF per level Make proficiency +3% damage per level Increase optimal and effective range by 2 meters Fixed shotgun Shotguns are anything but fine Add in reducing backpeddling speed by 10-20% and it's perfect. The mic bubble bug... I yield, CCP will be fixing it SOON. Current ETA 1 year since bug
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 201	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:28:00 - [22] - Quote CCP not only needs to buff shotgun damage + range, they need to lower joystick Deadzone. I run into "super strafers" every odd time, and there is no godforsaken way they're on a controller(They are keyboard strafing). The controllers max aiming sensitivity is just too slow. With the extremely close range needed to kill with a shotgun, once you're that close to an enemy dropsuit, they will move faster than you can aim. So for example: Minmatar ADV Logistics Suit ADV Shotgun 3 X Complex Shield Extenders Flux Grenade 2 Complex Dampners CPU bonus module K2 Nanohive ADV or Proto Quantum Scanner Remote Explosive- ADV All core skills Maxed -Ok first thing, after someones taken care of deploying uplinks, next up is to scan- -SCAN- Alright, were up against a good corp, so there are some errors in scanning. -Enemies on radar for 16 or 25 seconds. -Shotgun aiming is too slow, will probably lose face to face encounters, must flank to have a chance. -COUNTER SCAN Enemy has scanners of their own, but we "SCAN PREVENTED" it. -Am taking long route to flank behind enemies - am within flanking distance, Remote Explosives preferred, because aiming is so ******* at the moment. - Killed a few enemies, enemies now know someone is sneaking around, Duvolle Focused scanners inbound. - I've been scanned, the Duvolle blows, so I'm only visible for 5 seconds, I move to another position. -Find a few enemies, shotgun them in the back. -Keep engaging enemies, am able to kill two more before my cover is blown. All escape routes are no good, face to face is our only option -it's a 1 on 1 against a Super Kincatted Assault. He strafes like the Flash on crack,, his strafing of course being twice as fast as my aiming speed ( all Sensitivity at 100%) and I die. The end. All I use are shotguns, heck I came from Battlefield 3 before coming to Dust. I could hold a position down by myself, with my 870 MCS-Slugs, and My TUG's. Crouching doesn't work because I can still hear you. I have very good audio equipment. If you feed the line out from a 7.1 DD Headphone Decoder to a Quality Soundcards "line in", you can boost the "mids", and you can make enemy footsteps very, very loud. But I find sound in Dust not as useful as in other FPS's Check out some of my videos, I know what I'm talking about, trust me, the aiming for controllers is just stupid slow in DUST. TheUltimateCrash videos aka Medical Crash
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 687	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:28:00 - [23] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: My militia can take medium-light suits in 1-3 hits, 1-2 for protostacked heavies if its a headshot. I run Allotek and CreoDron on my alt, the Allotek OHKed ANY suit, but 2 SPC is... no. CreoDron the same. With no damage mods. I think proficiency increases ROF. I don't understand, maybe its the hit detection cause Allotek and CreoDron OHKed EVERY suit. You are not OHKing a heavy with any kind of shotgun. It just cannot do that much damage, even with mods. MAYBE if every pellet hits the head, but that's pure luck. Shotgun tiers pretty poorly, gets no damage from proficiency so it will compound less damage with mods, and has terrible rof so cannot take advantage of dmg mods like other weapons. Plus it has 5m range, it cannot compete with the rifles.
Sgt Buttscratch KILL-EM-QUICK 1825	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:29:00 - [24] - Quote 2hit proto logis with mine easy enough I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 834	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:31:00 - [25] - Quote I would like to see the operation skill and the proficency skill change to be in line with other weapons (Prof = dmg increase) and I would like either more optimal range, not much - just a few more meters. Add to that a less hardcore damage falloff. I do agree the shotgun is a little underpowered but really it would only need very minor adjustments to be in a great place. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB For the STATE!
Frost Kitty Fatal Absolution 63	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:31:00 - [26] - Quote Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= Meow...
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 201	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:32:00 - [27] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: I would tend to assert shotguns are fine. In PC really good players using them do just as well if not better than really good players using other weapons. This isn't the end all be all, but you certainly see shotguns getting more kills than a lot of other weapons. All i've ever heard about complaint wise from my particular shotties is not the range but the hit detection...even in pubs, being spotty at times. What about the slow aiming? Does it not bother you? It's too slow. I'm amazed anyone can kill this, I'm not sure how it is for mouse users.
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 201	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:33:00 - [28] - Quote Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 985	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:34:00 - [29] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: CCP not only needs to buff shotgun damage + range, they need to lower joystick Deadzone. I run into "super strafers" every odd time, and there is no godforsaken way they're on a controller(They are keyboard strafing). The controllers max aiming sensitivity is just too slow. With the extremely close range needed to kill with a shotgun, once you're that close to an enemy dropsuit, they will move faster than you can aim. So for example: Minmatar ADV Logistics Suit ADV Shotgun 3 X Complex Shield Extenders Flux Grenade 2 Complex Dampners CPU bonus module K2 Nanohive ADV or Proto Quantum Scanner Remote Explosive- ADV All core skills Maxed -Ok first thing, after someones taken care of deploying uplinks, next up is to scan- -SCAN- Alright, were up against a good corp, so there are some errors in scanning. -Enemies on radar for 16 or 25 seconds. -Shotgun aiming is too slow, will probably lose face to face encounters, must flank to have a chance. -COUNTER SCAN Enemy has scanners of their own, but we "SCAN PREVENTED" it. -Am taking long route to flank behind enemies - am within flanking distance, Remote Explosives preferred, because aiming is so ******* at the moment. - Killed a few enemies, enemies now know someone is sneaking around, Duvolle Focused scanners inbound. - I've been scanned, the Duvolle blows, so I'm only visible for 5 seconds, I move to another position. -Find a few enemies, shotgun them in the back. -Keep engaging enemies, am able to kill two more before my cover is blown. All escape routes are no good, face to face is our only option -it's a 1 on 1 against a Super Kincatted Assault. He strafes like the Flash on crack,, his strafing of course being twice as fast as my aiming speed ( all Sensitivity at 100%) and I die. The end. All I use are shotguns, heck I came from Battlefield 3 before coming to Dust. I could hold a position down by myself, with my 870 MCS-Slugs, and My TUG's. Crouching doesn't work because I can still hear you. I have very good audio equipment. If you feed the line out from a 7.1 DD Headphone Decoder to a Quality Soundcards "line in", you can boost the "mids", and you can make enemy footsteps very, very loud. But I find sound in Dust not as useful as in other FPS's Check out some of my videos, I know what I'm talking about, trust me, the aiming for controllers is just stupid slow in DUST. TheUltimateCrash videos aka Medical Crash I have no problem hitting my target in dust, ADS through is terrible It's range is to short and damage is a bit to low I agree though
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 834	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:37:00 - [30] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: I would tend to assert shotguns are fine. In PC really good players using them do just as well if not better than really good players using other weapons. This isn't the end all be all, but you certainly see shotguns getting more kills than a lot of other weapons. All i've ever heard about complaint wise from my particular shotties is not the range but the hit detection...even in pubs, being spotty at times. What about the slow aiming? Does it not bother you? It's too slow. I'm amazed anyone can kill this, I'm not sure how it is for mouse users. Mouse aiming is possibly faster than the controller but it is very sluggish and feels totally unnatural. There is also a small amount of input lag so that does not help either. People from time to time complain about KB/M but trust me, use it for yourself. Any full time computer gamer will tell you straight away that mouse aiming is very bad and very clunky. It gets even worse when it comes to selecting equipment from the radial menu or when you are trying to select spawn locations. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB For the STATE!

Frost Kitty Fatal Absolution 63	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:38:00 - [31] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. If it gets Buffed, it will get Nerfed... really hard. People really don't like 1 shot weapons. Besides, me and a lot of other people do great with Shotguns. Maybe you need better Tactics? Meow...
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 569	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:43:00 - [32] - Quote Frost Kitty wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. If it gets Buffed, it will get Nerfed... really hard. People really don't like 1 shot weapons. Besides, me and a lot of other people do great with Shotguns. Maybe you need better Tactics? Ironically I agree with your logic. Although i think it only needs really small fixes to make it perfect i'm sure CCP would mess that up resulting in it eventually being nerfed to oblivion. The mic bubble bug... I yield, CCP will be fixing it SOON. Current ETA 1 year since bug
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 201	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:47:00 - [33] - Quote Frost Kitty wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. If it gets Buffed, it will get Nerfed... really hard. People really don't like 1 shot weapons. Besides, me and a lot of other people do great with Shotguns. Maybe you need better Tactics? My tactics are fine, the aiming in DUST is trash. I'm surprised more players don't complain about this. Again, aiming in DUST is stupid slow. We are all at disadvantage up close because the aiming is just too slow.
Frost Kitty Fatal Absolution 63	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:47:00 - [34] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. If it gets Buffed, it will get Nerfed... really hard. People really don't like 1 shot weapons. Besides, me and a lot of other people do great with Shotguns. Maybe you need better Tactics? Ironically I agree with your logic. Although i think it only needs really small fixes to make it perfect i'm sure CCP would mess that up resulting in it eventually being nerfed to oblivion. Exactly my point. Although I agree lol... I just don't want my favorite weapon Nerfed. It's in a pretty good place now anyway. Well... besides hit detection. I hope they fix it again. Meow...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2608	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:49:00 - [35] - Quote When hit detection was fixed it dramatically increased applied DPS for automatic weapons. It did not change the DPS for high Alpha weapons. It did make High Alpha weapons not miss as much, but missing due to bad hit detection was always more apparent in high alpha weapons than in automatic weapons. The result was that when hit detection was fixed all automatic weapons got increased DPS, while Shot Guns, Sniper Rifles, Nova Knives etc stayed the same. Because Automatic weapons got more applied DPS, most people started fitting as much Plate as they possibly could to increase their health pool, in order extend the TTK against them so they might have time to react. The result of this was an overall increase to the health of most dropsuits, due to brick tanking becoming by far the most common fit. The end result of all this, is that Shotguns can no longer 1 shot most medium frame suits. However, if the TTK is extended the brick-tank fit will no longer be so essential, and other more versatile fits will take its place. The result will be that Shotguns will once again be able to 1-shot most medium frame suits. Therefore, I would advocate not doing anything to the shotgun until we see how it performs after players have had a few weeks to adjust to the changes in 1.8. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 201	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:50:00 - [36] - Quote Frost Kitty wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. If it gets Buffed, it will get Nerfed... really hard. People really don't like 1 shot weapons. Besides, me and a lot of other people do great with Shotguns. Maybe you need better Tactics? Ironically I agree with your logic. Although i think it only needs really small fixes to make it perfect i'm sure CCP would mess that up resulting in it eventually being nerfed to oblivion. Exactly my point. Although I agree lol... I just don't want my favorite weapon Nerfed. It's in a pretty good place now anyway. Well... besides hit detection. I hope they fix it again. No, it's not in a good place, are you blind?
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 201	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:51:00 - [37] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: When hit detection was fixed it dramatically increased applied DPS for automatic weapons. It did not change the DPS for high Alpha weapons. It did make High Alpha weapons not miss as much, but missing due to bad hit detection was always more apparent in high alpha weapons than in automatic weapons. The result was that when hit detection was fixed all automatic weapons got increased DPS, while Shot Guns, Sniper Rifles, Nova Knives etc stayed the same. Because Automatic weapons got more applied DPS, most people started fitting as much Plate as they possibly could to increase their health pool, in order extend the TTK against them so they might have time to react. The result of this was an overall increase to the health of most dropsuits, due to brick tanking becoming by far the most common fit. The end result of all this, is that Shotguns can no longer 1 shot most medium frame suits. However, if the TTK is extended the brick-tank fit will no longer be so essential, and other more versatile fits will take its place. The result will be that Shotguns will once again be able to 1-shot most medium frame suits. Therefore, I would advocate not doing anything to the shotgun until we see how it performs after players have had a few weeks to adjust to the changes in 1.8. Again, aiming needs to be fixed, it's too slow, we need two or three times the sensitivity we have now, with lower deadzone.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 985	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:54:00 - [38] - Quote The people who say shotguns baffle me. I have no logic to understand them At the VERY least it needs a bit more range
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 869	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:55:00 - [39] - Quote I think it's fine. Maybe y'all just need more practice with it.
Frost Kitty Fatal Absolution 63	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:57:00 - [40] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I think it's fine. Maybe y'all just need more practice with it. Exactly. lol. Meow...

Xander Mercy Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 236	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:03:00 - [41] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: I don't know man, I get dropped in 2 shots easy by militia shotguns all the time, and i'm running an enhanced min assault with 2 enhanced armor plates and an enhanced shield extender. Grant it I don't know what kind of damage mods the attackers were running, but they still seem pretty damn strong. I could get on board with an optimal range increase and dispertion decrease (we are how far in the future and they don't make chokes?) but i'm not sure about a straight damage increase. You should get killed by ONE shot. The shotgun's range is 4 meters. Jus think about it for a second. we in futuristic suits of armor we shouldn't get ohk'd by shotguns. if you want a buff it would be rof not damage
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 202	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:03:00 - [42] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I think it's fine. Maybe y'all just need more practice with it. No, you need to open your eyes, the aiming is too slow. You know what most of you here remind me of? Back when BF3 was first released, HD had really, really bad input lag, I mean 2 second delays here..... Well some of us noticed this and complained on the forums. Guess what most people said? "You guys are crazy, aiming is fine Lern2play", "Looks fine to me", "Check your tv derka derka derka bakkala", "resetssss your modemss durzzzz". It took DICE over a year to finally fix it but they did, and even when they finally admitted to there being a bad input lag problem, people STILL denied it to this day. That's how most people on this forum are, you are BLIND. Not all of you, but a lot of you, based on your responses. The aiming is SLOW, it is SLOW. I think I need to record just exactly how bad the aiming in DUST is compared to other FPS's. I'll try to show you all just how bad of a disadvantage we are at, especially shotgunners, who need FAST aiming to twitch aim.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 871	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:15:00 - [43] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: No, you need to open your eyes, the aiming is too slow. You know what most of you here remind me of? Back when BF3 was first released, HD had really, really bad input lag, I mean 2 second delays here..... Well some of us noticed this and complained on the forums. Guess what most people said? "You guys are crazy, aiming is fine Lern2play", "Looks fine to me", "Check your tv derka derka derka bakkala", "resetssss your modemss durzzzz". It took DICE over a year to finally fix it but they did, and even when they finally admitted to there being a bad input lag problem, people STILL denied it to this day. That's how most people on this forum are, you are BLIND. Not all of you, but a lot of you, based on your responses. The aiming is SLOW, it is SLOW. I think I need to record just exactly how bad the aiming in DUST is compared to other FPS's. I'll try to show you all just how bad of a disadvantage we are at, especially shotgunners, who need FAST aiming to twitch aim. I don't find the aiming to be too slow (I use the DS3 and my sensitivity is at 90 for everything). Then again, in most of my encounters the enemy is caught unawares and therefore I can take my time to get close and line up a good shot properly. So maybe you're doing it wrong? If you are expecting the shotgun to 1vs1 an enemy who is aware of you in a strafe duel, you will be disappointed. It excels as a high alpha surprise weapon, meant for dispatching an enemy who is caught off guard and disoriented while trying to locate where you are shooting from.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1002	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:27:00 - [44] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Medical Crash wrote: No, you need to open your eyes, the aiming is too slow. You know what most of you here remind me of? Back when BF3 was first released, HD had really, really bad input lag, I mean 2 second delays here..... Well some of us noticed this and complained on the forums. Guess what most people said? "You guys are crazy, aiming is fine Lern2play", "Looks fine to me", "Check your tv derka derka derka bakkala", "resetssss your modemss durzzzz". It took DICE over a year to finally fix it but they did, and even when they finally admitted to there being a bad input lag problem, people STILL denied it to this day. That's how most people on this forum are, you are BLIND. Not all of you, but a lot of you, based on your responses. The aiming is SLOW, it is SLOW. I think I need to record just exactly how bad the aiming in DUST is compared to other FPS's. I'll try to show you all just how bad of a disadvantage we are at, especially shotgunners, who need FAST aiming to twitch aim. I don't find the aiming to be too slow (I use the DS3 and my sensitivity is at 90 for everything). Then again, in most of my encounters the enemy is caught unawares and therefore I can take my time to get close and line up a good shot properly. So maybe you're doing it wrong? If you are expecting the shotgun to 1vs1 an enemy who is aware of you in a strafe duel, you will be disappointed. It excels as a high alpha surprise weapon, meant for dispatching an enemy who is caught off guard and disoriented while trying to locate where you are shooting from. To bad nova knives do that better
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 202	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:34:00 - [45] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Medical Crash wrote: No, you need to open your eyes, the aiming is too slow. You know what most of you here remind me of? Back when BF3 was first released, HD had really, really bad input lag, I mean 2 second delays here..... Well some of us noticed this and complained on the forums. Guess what most people said? "You guys are crazy, aiming is fine Lern2play", "Looks fine to me", "Check your tv derka derka derka bakkala", "resetssss your modemss durzzzz". It took DICE over a year to finally fix it but they did, and even when they finally admitted to there being a bad input lag problem, people STILL denied it to this day. That's how most people on this forum are, you are BLIND. Not all of you, but a lot of you, based on your responses. The aiming is SLOW, it is SLOW. I think I need to record just exactly how bad the aiming in DUST is compared to other FPS's. I'll try to show you all just how bad of a disadvantage we are at, especially shotgunners, who need FAST aiming to twitch aim. I don't find the aiming to be too slow (I use the DS3 and my sensitivity is at 90 for everything). Then again, in most of my encounters the enemy is caught unawares and therefore I can take my time to get close and line up a good shot properly. So maybe you're doing it wrong? If you are expecting the shotgun to 1vs1 an enemy who is aware of you in a strafe duel, you will be disappointed. It excels as a high alpha surprise weapon, meant for dispatching an enemy who is caught off guard and disoriented while trying to locate where you are shooting from. Lol at the blind guy..... Please see the optometrist soon, actually I think all hope is lost for you, so just sit there. Aiming is SLOW in DUST, too SLOW. So I shouldn't be able to AIM against strafing enemies, really? Oh so shotguns should ONLY be used for flanking, well sir, that's just sounds retar***** because it is. No matter if you are detected or not, if the enemy is in YOUR optimum range (short for SG), he should die. If he Strafes, so what? We should be able to at the least aim at him. This is the problem right now, yet CCP has done nothing about it. Oh and stop trying to "teach" me something you know nothing about. I don't care if you're "MLG 1337" either.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 872	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:35:00 - [46] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: To bad nova knives do that better Nearly any kill made with knives could also have been made with a shotgun - and most likely, it would have been easier with the shotgun. The same can't be said of the reverse. Also, with the knives its a lot harder to keep track of an enemy if he is moving, particularly should you need follow-up stabbings.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 860	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:38:00 - [47] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: My militia can take medium-light suits in 1-3 hits, 1-2 for protostacked heavies if its a headshot. I run Allotek and CreoDron on my alt, the Allotek OHKed ANY suit, but 2 SPC is... no. CreoDron the same. With no damage mods. I think proficiency increases ROF. I don't understand, maybe its the hit detection cause Allotek and CreoDron OHKed EVERY suit. You are not OHKing a heavy with any kind of shotgun. It just cannot do that much damage, even with mods. MAYBE if every pellet hits the head, but that's pure luck. Shotgun tiers pretty poorly, gets no damage from proficiency so it will compound less damage with mods, and has terrible rof so cannot take advantage of dmg mods like other weapons. Plus it has 5m range, it cannot compete with the rifles. OHK ONLY if I get the head, which is rare. But even then they're still alive. But I have OHKed with my Allotek and Dron shotty, and I am usually at 1-3 meters for the instakill. I'm on now so i'll test it. Psycho Scout Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- ?
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 861	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:40:00 - [48] - Quote Aiming is too slow in Dust. I do agree there. PS3 controller with all sensitive's 100% its still too slow. Psycho Scout Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- ?
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 4139	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:42:00 - [49] - Quote My MLT shotgun blueprint OHKs people all the time. You're doing something wrong. I am your scan error.
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1417	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:42:00 - [50] - Quote mlt shotty 1 shots 800hp YOUR UNDERPOWERED A laser rifle master for life not just for when it becomes popular Long Live the Empress Burn the Heretics

Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 202	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:44:00 - [51] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Aiming is too slow in Dust. I do agree there. PS3 controller with all sensitive's 100% its still too slow. Finally, some reasonable players. Yes, the aiming is rather slow in DUST.
Lethal Assassin 47 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 1	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:45:00 - [52] - Quote Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1003	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:50:00 - [53] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Dexter307 wrote: To bad nova knives do that better Nearly any kill made with knives could also have been made with a shotgun - and most likely, it would have been easier with the shotgun. The same can't be said of the reverse. Also, with the knives its a lot harder to keep track of an enemy if he is moving, particularly should you need follow-up stabbings. It's easier with knives since they can do 1000+ damage
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 202	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:50:00 - [54] - Quote Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Another blind player, yes, so many people with walking sticks here. Oh yeah, aiming is 1/3 of what other games sensitivity is, but it's ok. Sure pal.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1003	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:51:00 - [55] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: mlt shotty 1 shots 800hp YOUR UNDERPOWERED That's funny because a milita shotgun only 480 damage, 720 with a headshot
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1003	Posted - 2014.02.25 19:54:00 - [56] - Quote Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less
Krator Kosta Nostra Nos Nothi 5	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:05:00 - [57] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1004	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:11:00 - [58] - Quote Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK I do sense the frustration with using the shotgun - I have personally seen myself miss with my CRG-3/Creoden shotguns more times than I can count. I did find that raising the sensitivity did not help my cause, so I put it back to the default setting. What I have found that works, is rather than attempt to stay on them like glue, I let them backpeddle/strafe, while I too, move back just a bit. This allows me a chance to turn at the same rate they move (and keeps them in my sights). 2nd shot generally kills everything, 3rd shot will always kill whatever is left, assuming they haven't killed me first. It's current spread is more like a slug than buckshot Wider spread + more damage=better shotgun
Krator Kosta Nostra Nos Nothi 5	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:13:00 - [59] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK I do sense the frustration with using the shotgun - I have personally seen myself miss with my CRG-3/Creoden shotguns more times than I can count. I did find that raising the sensitivity did not help my cause, so I put it back to the default setting. What I have found that works, is rather than attempt to stay on them like glue, I let them backpeddle/strafe, while I too, move back just a bit. This allows me a chance to turn at the same rate they move (and keeps them in my sights). 2nd shot generally kills everything, 3rd shot will always kill whatever is left, assuming they haven't killed me first. It's current spread is more like a slug than buckshot Wider spread + more damage=better shotgun True - but a slug shot is the OHK method. What your describing will require multiple shots from the same distance. What might be a better option, is allowing the shotgun user the choice of slug vs buckshot like they have in other games. Although I doubt it will change anything.
Sam Tektzby Better Hide R Die 247	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:13:00 - [60] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. One shot death is enought i presume. Support - Tactician/Support Deteis - Orator

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2955	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:17:00 - [61] - Quote I have been taking people down with them fine, but this is my second attempt to use them. They seem to be working much better than they did the last time I tried them in 1.4 ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 383	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:17:00 - [62] - Quote I say (IMO) it's fine on damage. What NEEDS to be addressed still is the hit detection cause my shots sometimes get blue flare even if they are standing still and The Range... This game is set thousands of years in the future and it can't even hit people from 10-15 away? I'm sorry but that makes NO SENSE what-so-ever.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6788	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:18:00 - [63] - Quote What practice? I know how to stealth around, I know how to flank and I know how to get real close and personal with enemies. It's a necessity when you're using the closest range weapons on the 2nd slowest assault suit. I get close, hugging the enemy, boom to the head/center of mass. If that doesn't insta kill a medium frame, it's broken and I might as well use a rifle. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6788	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:19:00 - [64] - Quote Xander Mercy wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: I don't know man, I get dropped in 2 shots easy by militia shotguns all the time, and i'm running an enhanced min assault with 2 enhanced armor plates and an enhanced shield extender. Grant it I don't know what kind of damage mods the attackers were running, but they still seem pretty damn strong. I could get on board with an optimal range increase and dispertion decrease (we are how far in the future and they don't make chokes?) but i'm not sure about a straight damage increase. You should get killed by ONE shot. The shotgun's range is 4 meters. Jus think about it for a second. we in futuristic suits of armor we shouldn't get ohk'd by shotguns. if you want a buff it would be rof not damage Futuristic shotguns. These arguments are always amusing and there is always a simple and easy response. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 838	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:23:00 - [65] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I have been taking people down with them fine, but this is my second attempt to use them. They seem to be working much better than they did the last time I tried them in 1.4 Oh trust me I have "grew up" using shotguns since Beta. They are in a much better place than there were back then but they do still have issues. I think I would even be ok with keeping damage as it is right now if we could AT LEAST get a range improvement. Otherwise if we are going to keep this ridiculously small optimal range we need a damage / rate of fire buff. I think most people that know the shotgun well would be really happy with a small range improvement / a buff to falloff damage. Right now all someone has to do is walk a few paces back and the damage drops off incredibly. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB For the STATE!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2609	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:29:00 - [66] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: When hit detection was fixed it dramatically increased applied DPS for automatic weapons. It did not change the DPS for high Alpha weapons. It did make High Alpha weapons not miss as much, but missing due to bad hit detection was always more apparent in high alpha weapons than in automatic weapons. The result was that when hit detection was fixed all automatic weapons got increased DPS, while Shot Guns, Sniper Rifles, Nova Knives etc stayed the same. Because Automatic weapons got more applied DPS, most people started fitting as much Plate as they possibly could to increase their health pool, in order extend the TTK against them so they might have time to react. The result of this was an overall increase to the health of most dropsuits, due to brick tanking becoming by far the most common fit. The end result of all this, is that Shotguns can no longer 1 shot most medium frame suits. However, if the TTK is extended the brick-tank fit will no longer be so essential, and other more versatile fits will take its place. The result will be that Shotguns will once again be able to 1-shot most medium frame suits. Therefore, I would advocate not doing anything to the shotgun until we see how it performs after players have had a few weeks to adjust to the changes in 1.8. Again, aiming needs to be fixed, it's too slow, we need two or three times the sensitivity we have now, with lower deadzone. I was arguing against a DPS buff at this time. None of that precludes an functionality tweak. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1512	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:29:00 - [67] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. while I don't think you're assessment is bad I don't think it's particularly accurate. alpha: moderate DPS: poor fire rate: abysmal range: abysmal reload speed: poor ammo capacity; moderate/low there just isn't enough positives to make it a viable combat weapon GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥ Ko6 scout,
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2370	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:30:00 - [68] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: I say (IMO) it's fine on damage. What NEEDS to be addressed still is the hit detection cause my shots sometimes get blue flare even if they are standing still and The Range... This game is set thousands of years in the future and it can't even hit people from 10-15 away? I'm sorry but that makes NO SENSE what-so-ever. Damn straight. DPS is fine fix the hit detection. Shotguns don't need a buff, the game needs fixed. CEO: FA B3RT > PFBHz > TP > IMP > FA @ZataraRought Skype: Zatara.Rought
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6788	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:31:00 - [69] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. while I don't think you're assessment is bad I don't think it's particularly accurate. alpha: moderate DPS: poor fire rate: abysmal range: abysmal reload speed: poor ammo capacity; moderate/low there just isn't enough positives to make it a viable combat weapon Which is exactly why it needs that massive alpha. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2370	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:31:00 - [70] - Quote Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Yes! +1 CEO: FA B3RT > PFBHz > TP > IMP > FA @ZataraRought Skype: Zatara.Rought

Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 206	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:34:00 - [71] - Quote Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK I do sense the frustration with using the shotgun - I have personally seen myself miss with my CRG-3/Creoden shotguns more times than I can count. I did find that raising the sensitivity did not help my cause, so I put it back to the default setting. What I have found that works, is rather than attempt to stay on them like glue, I let them backpeddle/strafe, while I too, move back just a bit. This allows me a chance to turn at the same rate they move (and keeps them in my sights). 2nd shot generally kills everything, 3rd shot will always kill whatever is left, assuming they haven't killed me first. It's not just max sensitivity that's the problem, the "Deadzone" setting is too high as well. Look how far you have to push the stick in order to strafe, yeah it has to be pushed allllll the way to whichever direction. I want to set my stick, so the slightest push to any direction on the stick moves my character.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 877	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:35:00 - [72] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: What practice? I know how to stealth around, I know how to flank and I know how to get real close and personal with enemies. It's a necessity when you're using the closest range weapons on the 2nd slowest assault suit. I get close, hugging the enemy, boom to the head/center of mass. If that doesn't insta kill a medium frame, it's broken and I might as well use a rifle. Honestly, use REs if you want a guaranteed OHK against medium frames. Or rail guns/forge guns. In a game where one "medium" might have 3-4x the EHP of another "medium", you're asking a bit much.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3225	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:11:00 - [73] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Whut? I've one-shotted plenty of standard suits using a Dren shotgun and no damage mods. I don't even have any points in shotguns at all. Just be as close as you can and when possible, aim for the head. Thats because the Dren Shotgun has way too much damage for a Basic weapon. The proto weapon only does about 48 more points of damage. 48 That is nowhere near enough to justify running a proto shotty. Also, the Dren Shotgun OHK's anything below 480 eHP (Before resistances/weaknesses). Since the PRO shotgun only does 528, there is no reason to use a proto shotgun really. Anything tough enough to survive a single shot has to have a second shot follow up. And two is enough for any med frame (barring extremely armor tanked suits). Mind you though, this is the math for a point blank shot with all pellets hitting. You WILL need 3-4 shots if you are farther than 5m away from a target. (4m is the optimal) Shotguns need an overhaul. They don't operate well enough to justify running them. If you can get within 4m of a target, you might as well be using knives. Farther than 4m? A rifle would do it better. Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face. Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1104	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:11:00 - [74] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK I do sense the frustration with using the shotgun - I have personally seen myself miss with my CRG-3/Creoden shotguns more times than I can count. I did find that raising the sensitivity did not help my cause, so I put it back to the default setting. What I have found that works, is rather than attempt to stay on them like glue, I let them backpeddle/strafe, while I too, move back just a bit. This allows me a chance to turn at the same rate they move (and keeps them in my sights). 2nd shot generally kills everything, 3rd shot will always kill whatever is left, assuming they haven't killed me first. It's not just max sensitivity that's the problem, the "Deadzone" setting is too high as well. Look how far you have to push the stick in order to strafe, yeah it has to be pushed allllll the way to whichever direction. I want to set my stick, so the slightest push to any direction on the stick moves my character. Deadzones are a controller hardware problem bro- I experience 0 of this issue that you're talking about with a stock DS3.
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 206	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:41:00 - [75] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK I do sense the frustration with using the shotgun - I have personally seen myself miss with my CRG-3/Creoden shotguns more times than I can count. I did find that raising the sensitivity did not help my cause, so I put it back to the default setting. What I have found that works, is rather than attempt to stay on them like glue, I let them backpeddle/strafe, while I too, move back just a bit. This allows me a chance to turn at the same rate they move (and keeps them in my sights). 2nd shot generally kills everything, 3rd shot will always kill whatever is left, assuming they haven't killed me first. It's not just max sensitivity that's the problem, the "Deadzone" setting is too high as well. Look how far you have to push the stick in order to strafe, yeah it has to be pushed allllll the way to whichever direction. I want to set my stick, so the slightest push to any direction on the stick moves my character. Deadzones are a controller hardware problem bro- I experience 0 of this issue that you're talking about with a stock DS3. You're not my brother pal. You don't experience it- because you're too ignorant to notice it. Besides, the game developers tweak the controls for each game. Not every game has the same deadzone. That's ok though, I need to make a video to show people like yourself exactly what's wrong with aiming. Here have piece of candy for being a good little clone. pats head
Dunk Mujunk RestlessSpirits 527	Posted - 2014.02.25 21:59:00 - [76] - Quote Is Medical Crash a Godin alt? They sure have the same way with people lol. Anyway, Cat I hear what you are saying. I definitely don't fear a shotgunner as long as I see him or as long as we aren't within make out distance. But if it's a straight damage increase that is wanted, I would have to say that should be all that is given, and not a huge increase either. I have used a shotgun like 3 times (and it was months ago at this point) but I would figure an increase to ROF, optimal range, maybe even clip size, and a dispertion decrease would be the way to go, but thats just my opinion. In my first reply I said I regularly get 2 shotted by militia shotguns. Being as how I run enhanced armor/shields with the skills for them all at 5, a militia anything has no business 1 shotting me. Especially since it takes 2 shots minimum from any sniper rifle (at least everyone i've encountered) to kill me. Just my opinion of course. All that said, the best defence against the shotgun is a thorough sweep (with backup prefferably) of any shotgun-esq territory. All in all a damage buff wouldn't be the end of the world to me, I just feel there is a better way to go about buffing the shotgun. I haven't failed 10,000 times, i've successfully found 10,000 ways that won't work. Thomas Edison
Knight Solitaire Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 356	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:05:00 - [77] - Quote I dont know if it needs a range buff, maybe just a less steep damage fall off. Also, the way Shotguns hit their target needs to be looked at. I can have a full circle on an enemy only for him to take minimal damage in my range, but if I quickly swipe across a target and hit them, I can register the full damage and get a OHK most of the time. The Shotgun just suffers from other weapons being far too effective in the ranges in which they are supposed to be 'King'. RR is easy as hell to use in CQC, and probably one of the easiest rifles to use in CQC, same goes with the CR, SCR, and while I know its underperforming compared to the other Rifles the Plasma Rifle can still outperform the Shotgun in CQC. (I know the Plasma Rifle is Gallente, and it is supposed to rule CQC. But it has short - medium range capability, compared to the Shotgun which only has humping range capability.) Corporation: Fatal Absolution Alliance: General Tso's Alliance
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 10059	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:08:00 - [78] - Quote Fun fact - the DPS difference between a CR and a shotgun is negligible. The CR DPS can even exceed that of the shotgun with proficiency. Oh, and it has well over 10x the range and RoF. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 2394	Posted - 2014.02.25 22:11:00 - [79] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Make operations +5% ROF per level Make proficiency +3% damage per level Increase optimal and effective range by 2 meters Fixed shotgun Shotguns are anything but fine This... Medical Crash is a important person in his own right, not a common poster though, hell I saw Lance in another thread ffs. Listen I'll change the song every week
Mieli Sydan Ultramarine Corp 28	Posted - 2014.02.25 23:00:00 - [80] - Quote The SG is my weapon of choice, but damn is it frustrating at times. Here's my take on the deficiencies of the shotgun: Most weapons get both a flat damage boost and an optimal range increase as you go up in tiers. The shotgun only gets the damage increase. The optimal on a militia shotgun is 4m. The optimal on a CreoDron is still 4m. I could swear that the shotty used to get +1m optimal per tier, but it was either silently removed, or it was all a dream. Combined with the atypical proficiency skill bonus, this means that damage mods are much less effective on a shotgun (less damage increase per shot, less damage increase at distance). The shotgun has been like this for ages, but, as other people have mentioned, the game has changed in ways that makes the damage output feel increasingly less competitive. I think at the very least, the shotgun needs to have the same kind of range increases as you go up in tiers as other weapons. Hit detection is still broken, mostly in ways that effects weapons that have "volume" to their projectiles or have splash damage ie: shotguns, plasma cannons, orbital bombardments, all explosives). A lot of structures in the game seem to have collision boxes that extend past their visible bounds. If any portion of a shotgun blast hits part of the collision box before it reaches an enemy, the entire shot is blocked and does no damage. The "shield" area around null cannon installations are probably the most common offender, but it also happens around boxes, corners, and railings. I think something similar happens to explosions in these spaces. Of course, confined spaces like this are a shotgunner's home turf... Even when shotgun blasts are unobstructed, you'll very often get no damage (or very low partial damage) on shots that seem clearly on-target. Here's a 20-second clip in which all of these hit detection issues happen at once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIEhz-CoW9s I think even mercs will have this effect (ie: somebody blocks a small portion of your shot. Your target takes no damage, while the person who obstructed the shot takes minimal partial damage since you weren't actually aiming at them). (Gò»°Gûí°)Gò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+

Seigfried Warheit Caught Me With My Pants Down 219	Posted - 2014.02.25 23:41:00 - [81] - Quote I wouldn't think it would be that effective atm since the thing atm is all about armor tanking and the shotty does more damage to shields that they to do to armor
2100 Angels The Southern Legion 324	Posted - 2014.02.25 23:53:00 - [82] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Medical Crash wrote: No, you need to open your eyes, the aiming is too slow. You know what most of you here remind me of? Back when BF3 was first released, HD had really, really bad input lag, I mean 2 second delays here..... Well some of us noticed this and complained on the forums. Guess what most people said? "You guys are crazy, aiming is fine Lern2play", "Looks fine to me", "Check your tv derka derka derka bakkala", "resetssss your modemss durzzzz". It took DICE over a year to finally fix it but they did, and even when they finally admitted to there being a bad input lag problem, people STILL denied it to this day. That's how most people on this forum are, you are BLIND. Not all of you, but a lot of you, based on your responses. The aiming is SLOW, it is SLOW. I think I need to record just exactly how bad the aiming in DUST is compared to other FPS's. I'll try to show you all just how bad of a disadvantage we are at, especially shotgunners, who need FAST aiming to twitch aim. I don't find the aiming to be too slow (I use the DS3 and my sensitivity is at 90 for everything). Then again, in most of my encounters the enemy is caught unawares and therefore I can take my time to get close and line up a good shot properly. So maybe you're doing it wrong? If you are expecting the shotgun to 1vs1 an enemy who is aware of you in a strafe duel, you will be disappointed. It excels as a high alpha surprise weapon, meant for dispatching an enemy who is caught off guard and disoriented while trying to locate where you are shooting from. Lol at the blind guy..... Please see the optometrist soon, actually I think all hope is lost for you, so just sit there. Aiming is SLOW in DUST, too SLOW. So I shouldn't be able to AIM against strafing enemies, really? Oh so shotguns should ONLY be used for flanking, well sir, that's just sounds retar***** because it is. No matter if you are detected or not, if the enemy is in YOUR optimum range (short for SG), he should die. If he Strafes, so what? We should be able to at the least aim at him. This is the problem right now, yet CCP has done nothing about it. Oh and stop trying to "teach" me something you know nothing about. I don't care if you're "MLG 1337" either. Put it away mate, aiming with the DS3 is fine. Take away aim assist and put it back to how it was in chromosome, at least then the aiming was predictable. I have my controller settings on 50/60 and the speed is more than adequate. Do you want to be able to do insta-spins? is that it? I have no problems killing strafing enemies with the shotgun. No, it doesn't have AA, but neither should it. RE the shotgun damage; adding the 2% damage per proficiency level and a slight range buff (1-2m) would balance it up. Having said that though, I wouldn't want to lose the decrease in dispersion either. Maybe an additional skill for one of those skills would be appropriate. To qualify this, I'll just say that currently the ADV Combat Rifle is presently more effective in CQC than my CreoDron. I can't count the number of times I've got the drop on someone, pumped a round into their back, only dropped their shields and they have proceeded to jump forward, look at me and I'm dead. I find this ridiculous because I run my fit with a complex damage mod and upwards of 600 hp. Surely enough to get 2-3 shots off before I die? Nope.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 266	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:28:00 - [83] - Quote Let me start of by saying, honestly, I don't think I have a clue what exactly is wrong with the shotgun. Since about 1.6, my opinion on it has changed almost on a week to week basis. It seems like one day I'll be going into games with my CreoDron and OHKing almost anything I come across, and the next I'll be bearing down on assault suits and dumping SG rounds into them without getting a single kill. At the same time, they drop like flies to my Boundless/RS-90 CRs all day, every day. First and foremost, I think everyone can agree that the SG hit detection is screwy, that needs to be addressed before anything else. Next, TTK needs to be at an acceptable level. With the way things are now, almost everything is a high alpha weapon, the only difference with the SG is that can only deal that damage in bursts. Once those two issues are taken care of, further adjustments can be made if necessary. If so, then the first course of action should be to look at the skill bonuses. While it is useful in individual engagements, SG Prof mostly just eats up your ammo faster over time, and there isn't that much to begin with. Personally, I'd like to see Operation switched to fire rate, Proficiency given the standard damage bonus, and the addition of a Shotgun Sharpshooter skill that decreases spread (this also works out for those odd mercs who have the laughable notion that you'd ever want more spread on a SG).
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 208	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:32:00 - [84] - Quote 2100 Angels wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Medical Crash wrote: No, you need to open your eyes, the aiming is too slow. You know what most of you here remind me of? Back when BF3 was first released, HD had really, really bad input lag, I mean 2 second delays here..... Well some of us noticed this and complained on the forums. Guess what most people said? "You guys are crazy, aiming is fine Lern2play", "Looks fine to me", "Check your tv derka derka derka bakkala", "resetssss your modemss durzzzz". It took DICE over a year to finally fix it but they did, and even when they finally admitted to there being a bad input lag problem, people STILL denied it to this day. That's how most people on this forum are, you are BLIND. Not all of you, but a lot of you, based on your responses. The aiming is SLOW, it is SLOW. I think I need to record just exactly how bad the aiming in DUST is compared to other FPS's. I'll try to show you all just how bad of a disadvantage we are at, especially shotgunners, who need FAST aiming to twitch aim. I don't find the aiming to be too slow (I use the DS3 and my sensitivity is at 90 for everything). Then again, in most of my encounters the enemy is caught unawares and therefore I can take my time to get close and line up a good shot properly. So maybe you're doing it wrong? If you are expecting the shotgun to 1vs1 an enemy who is aware of you in a strafe duel, you will be disappointed. It excels as a high alpha surprise weapon, meant for dispatching an enemy who is caught off guard and disoriented while trying to locate where you are shooting from. Lol at the blind guy..... Please see the optometrist soon, actually I think all hope is lost for you, so just sit there. Aiming is SLOW in DUST, too SLOW. So I shouldn't be able to AIM against strafing enemies, really? Oh so shotguns should ONLY be used for flanking, well sir, that's just sounds retar*** because it is. No matter if you are detected or not, if the enemy is in YOUR optimum range (short for SG), he should die. If he Strafes, so what? We should be able to at the least aim at him. This is the problem right now, yet CCP has done nothing about it. Oh and stop trying to "teach" me something you know nothing about. I don't care if you're "MLG 1337" either. Put it away mate, aiming with the DS3 is fine**. Take away aim assist and put it back to how it was in chromosome, at least then the aiming was predictable. I have my controller settings on 50/60 and the speed is more than adequate. Do you want to be able to do insta-spins? is that it? I have no problems killing strafing enemies with the shotgun (or at least getting my reticle on them). No, it doesn't have AA, but neither should it. RE the shotgun damage; adding the 2% damage per proficiency level and a slight range buff (1-2m) would balance it up. Having said that though, I wouldn't want to lose the decrease in dispersion either. Maybe an additional skill for one of those skills would be appropriate. To qualify this, I'll just say that currently the ADV Combat Rifle is presently more effective in CQC than my CreoDron. I can't count the number of times I've got the drop on someone, pumped a round into their back, only dropped their shields and they have proceeded to jump forward, look at me and I'm dead. I find this ridiculous because I run my fit with a complex damage mod and upwards of 600 hp. Surely enough to get 2-3 shots off before I die? Nope. Hey dude, I ain't yer "mate". Again more people that don't know what you're talking about. I didn't ask for "instant spins 1337 der derd errrdee", I asked for an increase in the max sensitivity, and most importantly, lower deadzone. It shouldn't take so long to aim, right now it's ridiculous. Do you even know what deadzone is(Before you Google ie)? To give an example- You run into an enemy dropsuit He starts strafing fast. Really really fast. Your sensitivity is on 100 for both X and Y ( Y feels like it is slower than X) He goes this way first ----> O This is your stick O You tilt your stick this way / Then he strafes this way <-------------- O You now have to move your stick alllll the way to the left \ in order to aim at him. But it doesn't matter because aiming is too slow, and he strafes faster than you can aim. This is the problem, if you can't see it then something is wrong with you. Tell me, do you live next to Squidward or Spongebob, Patrick. Oh, I meant 2100. What is it like living in Bikini Bottom under that gigantic rock? You know, cause you are so unaware and out of touch with real time stuff.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 675	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:39:00 - [85] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: I don't know man, I get dropped in 2 shots easy by militia shotguns all the time, and i'm running an enhanced min assault with 2 enhanced armor plates and an enhanced shield extender. Grant it I don't know what kind of damage mods the attackers were running, but they still seem pretty damn strong. I could get on board with an optimal range increase and dispertion decrease (we are how far in the future and they don't make chokes?) but i'm not sure about a straight damage increase. You should get killed by ONE shot. The shotgun's range is 4 meters. Jus think about it for a second. Nova knives can kill in one go, they are the closest range there is, it only makes sense the further way you go the more shots it should take. Sounds like you just want an "I win" button once cloaks come out. CCP your matchmaking is better but still sucks a fair amount Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC Renegade Alliance 68	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:46:00 - [86] - Quote I heard that a cloak is a thing that's happening at some point? If so, then I think that shotguns are essentially fine and no one will be complaining soon. Otherwise, I don't see a problem with the shotgun other than the fact that it's situational; just like the sniper rifle, mass driver, laser rifle, swarm launcher, nova knives, flaylock pistol, forgegun, and plasma cannon. If you have it out at the right time at the right place with a good suit it can be devastating. That said, -7% spread, +5% range, +10% ammo capacity/reload rate and a slight boost to profile dampening might be OK.
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 208	Posted - 2014.02.26 00:46:00 - [87] - Quote Henchmen21 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Dunk Mujunk wrote: I don't know man, I get dropped in 2 shots easy by militia shotguns all the time, and i'm running an enhanced min assault with 2 enhanced armor plates and an enhanced shield extender. Grant it I don't know what kind of damage mods the attackers were running, but they still seem pretty damn strong. I could get on board with an optimal range increase and dispertion decrease (we are how far in the future and they don't make chokes?) but i'm not sure about a straight damage increase. You should get killed by ONE shot. The shotgun's range is 4 meters. Jus think about it for a second. Nova knives can kill in one go, they are the closest range there is, it only makes sense the further way you go the more shots it should take. Sounds like you just want an "I win" button once cloaks come out. Many things need to be tweaked on the shotgun, it's just not right. Especially with that too short optimum range. You enter CQC territory? You should be SCARED FOR YOUR LIFE from shotgunners, especially if they're dampened (almost guaranteed post 1.8). Right now it's a joke, more people are scared of the Scrambler Rifle and the Combat Rifle, than the shotgun. The shotgun is a joke at the moment. If I see players do good with it, then I know they must be good. I don't even want to think how much better they would be if aiming was fixed.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 863	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:13:00 - [88] - Quote I agree. I played BF4 beta and when I got my shotgun, I had to keep up with it. Dust aiming speed is too slow. Its always like 'I move too fast for the game' instead of me struggling to keep up. I miss that. The range and damage and ROF is WAY too short. I don't want a long-range AR, I want the shotty to work like its supposed to. I miss the beta, at short-mid range I still wrecked suits. And in CQC, OHK EVERYTHING. Yeah, sorry about disagreeing earlier. I just remembered that. I still am good with it though. Psycho Scout Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- Logi?
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 183	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:28:00 - [89] - Quote I can one shot lights and some mediums point blank with mlt sg. That's where it supposed to work. If it had any better range it would start to cut in on the effectiveness of the AR, which has already gotten kicked around enough. In truth, the SG is a more effective surprise attack headshot weapon more than it is a viable cqc weapon. Ih a full auto assault variant were released, however, it would realistically rival the HMG in terms of close range power. I lugged a USAS around for a bit when some cav units were trying them back in the early 90s. The guy doing dismount on a Bradley would use it to surpress an entire area while the infantry unit onboard got out and did their thing. 20 rounds of 00 in 2 seconds if need be. The drums weighed aton, and it felt like lugging a jack hammer compared to the 16. But something like that is what 1.8 invisible SG scouts could really use. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 183	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:36:00 - [90] - Quote And to clarify, I'm not arguing your point about what even a basic sg -SHOULD- do. I think the only gun in the game that works close to 'right' is the smg. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.

Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 1828	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:37:00 - [91] - Quote Yeah, aiming in DUST is pathetically slow. I jacked up the sensitivity on BF4, couldn't handle it for quite a while. Went back to DUST, felt like I was pushing against the bounds of the screen. Forge on for great justice! Defend the meek! Destroy the weak! Q-sync breaches into the rectum of everyone else!
Lethal Assassin 47 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2	Posted - 2014.02.26 01:59:00 - [92] - Quote Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Krator Kosta Nostra wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and less spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Shotgun needs a bit more spread not less More spread <> OHK I do sense the frustration with using the shotgun - I have personally seen myself miss with my CRG-3/Creoden shotguns more times than I can count. I did find that raising the sensitivity did not help my cause, so I put it back to the default setting. What I have found that works, is rather than attempt to stay on them like glue, I let them backpeddle/strafe, while I too, move back just a bit. This allows me a chance to turn at the same rate they move (and keeps them in my sights). 2nd shot generally kills everything, 3rd shot will always kill whatever is left, assuming they haven't killed me first. It's current spread is more like a slug than buckshot Wider spread + more damage=better shotgun True - but a slug shot is the OHK method. What your describing will require multiple shots from the same distance. What might be a better option, is allowing the shotgun user the choice of slug vs buckshot like they have in other games. Although I doubt it will change anything. I meant more spread. Edited.
Lethal Assassin 47 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:02:00 - [93] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and more spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Another blind player, yes, so many people with walking sticks here. Oh yeah, aiming is 1/3 of what other games sensitivity is, but it's ok. Sure pal. Um you do know this was in reply to the OP right, not you. You just made yourself look like an idiot. Thanks though for the attempt at an insult.
Rusty Shallows 1039	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:14:00 - [94] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Who says a shotgun should kill suits in one shot? I do. Bad DPS, 4m range, slow fire rate... Slow is PLC and FG. It even looks fast compared to SL and charging Nova Knives. Range needs love. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 111	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:20:00 - [95] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Considering logis count as medium frames it's pretty damn hard to take down a proto medium frame in one shot if they tank much. Usually 2 good shots will do it but if they have that trusty CR you'll be dead before you get your second shot off often (assuming they're good). I fully support the shotgun's needing more power, especially a damage boosting skill instead of the the ROF and the tiers do not increase the damage enough. If the proficiency is changed to increasing damage then there should be a officer shotgun. It'll probably be a different name if it was made, not Balac's or Krin's. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 526	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:29:00 - [96] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Who says a shotgun should kill suits in one shot? I do. Bad DPS, 4m range, slow fire rate... So fix the range or rate of fire, or, even better, the hit detection. I'm not sure a OHK weapon on someone that runs 10mps, can't be scanned (and will soon be able to cloak) is balanced. But heck, that's just me, and I'm admittedly annoyed whenever someone shoots me in the side or back of the head and I'm dead before I have a chance to react. I just see your post, and think, no shudder to think, of someone like Fusion or Lightning or TTW or Shutter with an even stronger shotgun.
Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 172	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:43:00 - [97] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Who says a shotgun should kill suits in one shot? I do. Bad DPS, 4m range, slow fire rate... No. 2 shots for most suits, with only this flimsiest of light frames and full contact headshots being the exceptions. If they usually killed in 1 shot they would make Nova Knives useless, and this game would turn into a twitch shooter. Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.
Soldier Sorajord Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 87	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:45:00 - [98] - Quote Idk why the Proficiency says its a reduction to ROF, or how the heck that's supposed to help the Shotty out, lol. But like those before me have said, Get closer, and aim for the head. if they're close, and you get two high shots, they're dead. Except a Health tanked Heavy. Kinetics + stealth+ Get close and aim high + 2 shots = Kill Do not complain if you have never done anything about it. Chromosome Veteran *Subsonic.*
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 111	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:46:00 - [99] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Let me start of by saying, honestly, I don't think I have a clue what exactly is wrong with the shotgun. Since about 1.6, my opinion on it has changed almost on a week to week basis. It seems like one day I'll be going into games with my CreoDron and OHKing almost anything I come across, and the next I'll be bearing down on assault suits and dumping SG rounds into them without getting a single kill. At the same time, they drop like flies to my Boundless/RS-90 CRs all day, every day. First and foremost, I think everyone can agree that the SG hit detection is screwy, that needs to be addressed before anything else. Next, TTK needs to be at an acceptable level. With the way things are now, almost everything is a high alpha weapon, the only difference with the SG is that can only deal that damage in bursts. Once those two issues are taken care of, further adjustments can be made if necessary. If so, then the first course of action should be to look at the skill bonuses. While it is useful in individual engagements, SG Prof mostly just eats up your ammo faster over time, and there isn't that much to begin with. Personally, I'd like to see Operation switched to fire rate, Proficiency given the standard damage bonus, and the addition of a Shotgun Sharpshooter skill that decreases spread (this also works out for those odd mercs who have the laughable notion that you'd ever want more spread on a SG). Completely agree, I also don't see how more spread is better (more spread = less pellets hitting), one huge issue I find with the shotgun is that there are bugs in addition to the wacky hit detection. Although this isn't the only weapon it happened to (some equipment is also affected), whenever you fire the shotgun and immediately sprint, there is glitch where the character is drastically moving much slower than what the usual sprinting speed, if not the regular movement speed, which is ludicrous considering the potential disadvantageous effects it could have (i.e. getting killed instantly because you can't flee). There are 2 solutions to this but this bug makes me feel even less likely of using the shotgun in addition to the horrendous hit detection. Only one of these solutions is viable but you may still maybe victim to it. 1. Before immediately sprinting, take a second or two of not sprinting (just move around with normal movement speed), and then commence with sprinting. (This is the optimal opt and a way of preventing getting the bug.) 2. When you catch this bug, stop, crouch, and then start sprinting again. (This is only feasible if there are no enemies around you for obvious reasons.) "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1295	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:48:00 - [100] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Considering logis count as medium frames it's pretty damn hard to take down a proto medium frame in one shot if they tank much. Usually 2 good shots will do it but if they have that trusty CR you'll be dead before you get your second shot off often (assuming they're good). I fully support the shotgun's needing more power, especially a damage boosting skill instead of the the ROF and the tiers do not increase the damage enough. I agree with the damage per tier thing and damage boost for proficiency, too. BUT you know the shotguns' main flaws (besides the hit detection)? The range. Four meters optional with a pretty harsh drop off and like 10m effective I think it was(?). 4m is basically knife range.

Martyr Saboteur Amarrtyrs 173	Posted - 2014.02.26 02:54:00 - [101] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Considering logis count as medium frames it's pretty damn hard to take down a proto medium frame in one shot if they tank much. Usually 2 good shots will do it but if they have that trusty CR you'll be dead before you get your second shot off often (assuming they're good). I fully support the shotgun's needing more power, especially a damage boosting skill instead of the the ROF and the tiers do not increase the damage enough. If the proficiency is changed to increasing damage then there should be a officer shotgun. It'll probably be a different name if it was made, not Balac's or Krin's. We could have 2 officer Shotguns... Jane's DRD-50 Shotgun - %20 Bonus to Damage over CreoDron Shotguns Annie's CDE-38 Shotgun - %15 Bonus to RoF and +3 to Magazine Size over CreoDron Shotguns. Totally not Fizzer94's forum alt. Definitely just a random dude.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 958	Posted - 2014.02.26 03:10:00 - [102] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. The buff is actually pretty easy- change op bonus to 5% fire rate per level, proficiency to 3% damage add +4 damage per pellet at ADV, and +8 damage per pellet at proto (scale the breach SG's as well Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 111	Posted - 2014.02.26 03:14:00 - [103] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. The buff is actually pretty easy- change op bonus to 5% fire rate per level, proficiency to 3% damage add +4 damage per pellet at ADV, and +8 damage per pellet at proto (scale the breach SG's as well You don't really need that buff, the shotgun is fine except for hit detection and range, which at best could be enhanced by 1-2 m for optimal range or a less steep drop off in damage. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1512	Posted - 2014.02.26 03:19:00 - [104] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: knight of 6 wrote: Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. while I don't think you're assessment is bad I don't think it's particularly accurate. alpha: moderate DPS: poor fire rate: abysmal range: abysmal reload speed: poor ammo capacity; moderate/low there just isn't enough positives to make it a viable combat weapon Which is exactly why it needs that massive alpha. meh the alpha is pretty okay imo I'd kill ~~for~~ [with] a range buff though GÇ£Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I am dampened.GÇ¥ Ko6 scout,
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 958	Posted - 2014.02.26 03:19:00 - [105] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. The buff is actually pretty easy- change op bonus to 5% fire rate per level, proficiency to 3% damage add +4 damage per pellet at ADV, and +8 damage per pellet at proto (scale the breach SG's as well You don't really need that buff, the shotgun is fine except for hit detection and range, which at best could be enhanced by 1-2 m for optimal range or a less steep drop off in damage. Ill definitely agree with range, its kinda hard to hit someone when they can jump backwards and become outside of your range with one jumpGÇª.btw good times squadding lol. Im getting back into the swing Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 208	Posted - 2014.02.26 03:48:00 - [106] - Quote Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Lethal Assassin 47 wrote: Fix spotty hit-detection issue wherein the shield glitches and the enemy takes no damage. It seems to happen mainly with the high alpha damage weapons more than any other weapons. Maybe a range increase and more spread also, otherwise, they're fine. The other part is skill and tactics. See Roner General, Marauder, or Fusion Commander. /thread Another blind player, yes, so many people with walking sticks here. Oh yeah, aiming is 1/3 of what other games sensitivity is, but it's ok. Sure pal. Um you do know this was in reply to the OP right, not you. You just made yourself look like an idiot. Thanks though for the attempt at an insult. As for my response for aiming being too slow, I do believe the ADS for SGs are too slow compared to other weapons and other games, especially for a weapon u want to mainly go for head shots with to get the most bang for your buck. When you can't reliably do that, you flank, hip-fire, and strafe. wat
Bormir1r WarRavens League of Infamy 112	Posted - 2014.02.26 03:52:00 - [107] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Bormir1r wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. The buff is actually pretty easy- change op bonus to 5% fire rate per level, proficiency to 3% damage add +4 damage per pellet at ADV, and +8 damage per pellet at proto (scale the breach SG's as well You don't really need that buff, the shotgun is fine except for hit detection and range, which at best could be enhanced by 1-2 m for optimal range or a less steep drop off in damage. Ill definitely agree with range, its kinda hard to hit someone when they can jump backwards and become outside of your range with one jumpGÇª.btw good times squadding lol. Im getting back into the swing Lol I mean you can argue that the shotgun needs more damage, but i think that's really only necessary for the Prototype because there's not that much of a difference, however for me I can see the extra punch, which really helps me btw. Yea we should do scout/shotgun squads more often. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 537	Posted - 2014.02.26 04:08:00 - [108] - Quote Sometimes i 1 shot assaults in the head, other times it's taken over 4 shots to the body. Hell, ive dropped a heavy with 2 headshots, and have died while unloading an entire clip into another. I've continued to take that as hit detection issues, as opposed to the gun itself being the problem.
Eric Del Carlo 0uter.Heaven 49	Posted - 2014.02.26 06:23:00 - [109] - Quote People that say shotguns are fine tend to usually be those who have not dedicated much SP into shotguns or barely use them. Damage just really needs a small incremental increase. But what REALLY bothers me is how it's a weapon that requires the user to be SUPER accurate, meaning that if your reticle is not DEAD CENTER of your target, you will miss out on most of the damage potential that could have been dealt. (Aeon Amadi made a very informational thread on how shotguns suffered the same issues the HMG did, which was it was laser accurate even though the large reticle meant that it was a weapon with immense spread) Add on the fact that it's range is literally spitting distance, and the range required to deal full damage is 4 meters, I might as well use knives... Another factor that makes using the shotgun difficult is that because you have to get so ridiculously close, you have an incredibly limited field of view once you're in range, and once you've landed the first shot and the enemy starts bunny hopping, the second shot required is a PAIN IN THE ASS to land. Hit detection is also rather sketchy on this weapon too..... I honestly don't know if my aim is simply horrible, but the other issues this weapon has justifies the fact that this weapon seriously needs to be looked at by CCP when they're rebalancing weapons for 1.8. P.S. What the hell kind of operation skill LOWERS spread on A CQC WEAPON like the shotgun?! TL;DR The shotgun needs a SMALL damage buff, a slight increase in range by say 3 meters, and LARGER SPREAD -_-
Eric Del Carlo 0uter.Heaven 49	Posted - 2014.02.26 06:25:00 - [110] - Quote Eric Del Carlo wrote: People that say shotguns are fine tend to usually be those who have not dedicated much SP into shotguns or barely use them. Damage just really needs a small incremental increase. But what REALLY bothers me is how it's a weapon that requires the user to be SUPER accurate, meaning that if your reticle is not DEAD CENTER of your target, you will miss out on most of the damage potential that could have been dealt. (Aeon Amadi made a very informational thread on how shotguns suffered the same issues the HMG did, which was it was laser accurate even though the large reticle meant that it was a weapon with immense spread) Add on the fact that it's range is literally spitting distance, and the range required to deal full damage is 4 meters (Perhaps even LESS), I might as well use knives... Another factor that makes using the shotgun difficult is that because you have to get so ridiculously close, you have an incredibly limited field of view once you're in range, and once you've landed the first shot and the enemy starts bunny hopping, the second shot required is a PAIN IN THE ASS to land. Hit detection is also rather sketchy on this weapon too..... I honestly don't know if my aim is simply horrible, but the other issues this weapon has justifies the fact that this weapon seriously needs to be looked at by CCP when they're rebalancing weapons for 1.8. P.S. What the hell kind of operation skill LOWERS spread on A CQC WEAPON like the shotgun?! TL;DR The shotgun needs a SMALL damage buff, a slight increase in range by say 3 meters, and LARGER SPREAD -_-

Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1126	Posted - 2014.02.26 06:33:00 - [111] - Quote Now I'm curious, since Medical Crash insists so adamantly that it's a huge problem: Has anyone else here had issues with deadzones?
Fusion Commander Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.02.26 07:01:00 - [112] - Quote Other than some hit detection issues I think the shotgun is fine and you people whining about it need ALOT of practice
Fusion Commander Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.02.26 07:03:00 - [113] - Quote This topic is just pathetic to me
Yan Darn Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 277	Posted - 2014.02.26 08:22:00 - [114] - Quote Eric Del Carlo wrote: People that say shotguns are fine tend to usually be those who have not dedicated much SP into shotguns or barely use them. Damage just really needs a small incremental increase. But what REALLY bothers me is how it's a weapon that requires the user to be SUPER accurate, meaning that if your reticle is not DEAD CENTER of your target, you will miss out on most of the damage potential that could have been dealt. (Aeon Amadi made a very informational thread on how shotguns suffered the same issues the HMG did, which was it was laser accurate even though the large reticle meant that it was a weapon with immense spread) Add on the fact that it's range is literally spitting distance, and the range required to deal full damage is 4 meters, I might as well use knives... Another factor that makes using the shotgun difficult is that because you have to get so ridiculously close, you have an incredibly limited field of view once you're in range, and once you've landed the first shot and the enemy starts bunny hopping, the second shot required is a PAIN IN THE ASS to land. Hit detection is also rather sketchy on this weapon too..... I honestly don't know if my aim is simply horrible, but the other issues this weapon has justifies the fact that this weapon seriously needs to be looked at by CCP when they're rebalancing weapons for 1.8. P.S. What the hell kind of operation skill LOWERS spread on A CQC WEAPON like the shotgun?! TL;DR The shotgun needs a SMALL damage buff, a slight increase in range by say 3 meters, and LARGER SPREAD ^ pretty much this apart from the larger spread part - if the shotgun has this weird hyper accuracy thing - which I believe it does (or hit detection is even more messed up than I thought) then we can't really judge he effectiveness of the current spread. I'd personally prefer Range and Damage bonuses - the current shotgun needs the advantages of the breach and the breach needs to be better at what it does. Really though, on the whole it seems fine - I'd be content if they fix hit detection/accuracy first. You probably don't know me. But next time you get gunned down or exploded by a Valor scout...check the name.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution 2383	Posted - 2014.02.26 08:25:00 - [115] - Quote Fusion Commander wrote: Other than some hit detection issues I think the shotgun is fine and you people whining about it need ALOT of practice DAMN STRAIGHT! Noobs complain but aside from hit detection good players using the shotty are beast. CEO: FA B3RT > PFBHz > TP > IMP > FA @ZataraRought Skype: Zatara.Rought
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 514	Posted - 2014.02.26 09:11:00 - [116] - Quote Shotguns are fine when hit detections working (no lag around) "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Scheherazade VII 276	Posted - 2014.02.26 09:26:00 - [117] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. I don't know dude... I took down multiple ADV heavies with a CRG with no damage mods in 3 shots the other day. My guy with 3 complex damage mods isn't even worth using because the damage difference is minimal and only helps with proto suits. And then they'd tear through me anyway, 100 extra HP but 16K ISK between the suits, and if I'm attacking them (with either suit) I'm behind them anyway so what difference does it make? One guy came at me with 336 armour left, that was gone straight away. I'd hazard a guess that a good shot from my shotgun can do up to 500 damage. That's plenty. I remember in the old build I had 688 shield on my proto logi and got one-shotted from behind by a MLT shotgun. That tells me that as far as I've been playing, they've never been under-powered.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 618	Posted - 2014.02.26 09:33:00 - [118] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Whut? I've one-shotted plenty of standard suits using a Dren shotgun and no damage mods. I don't even have any points in shotguns at all. Just be as close as you can and when possible, aim for the head. First of all having no points in SG operation is rather smart because the higher your operation skill the less spread your SG has so its basicly more easy to kill someone. Now to the damage the std SG does exactly 480 damge without damage mods IF all Pellets hit. And to be honest that's barely enough to kill a std suit with points in dropsuitsupgrades. For instance a fully skilled gallente or caldari suit has 413 ehp without any module. So a single militia plate would be enough to withstand a SG shot to the body. What the SG IMHO needs is a change in operation skill (mybe move the current prof skill to operation and make the prof skill either the usual 3% damage or make it +1 pellet per level)
Chuckles Brown 169	Posted - 2014.02.26 09:39:00 - [119] - Quote The shotgun is UP... or OP... depending on what day you use it. The official alt of 8213: All other alts are unofficially unofficial Do you pub, brah?
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 619	Posted - 2014.02.26 10:42:00 - [120] - Quote Chuckles Brown wrote: The shotgun is UP... or OP... depending on what day you use it. You are right the SG is not reliable but even when HD is on your side the SG is hardly OP in its current state with the small effective Range the SG is just a troll weapon (I get better results with knifes)

Marc Rime 287	Posted - 2014.02.26 10:52:00 - [121] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. ...and less FPS drops, especially in CQC. And a wider FoV. In shotgun range the target merely needs a slight nudge to the side to strafe out of the narrow cone of visibility we have. Add a bit of lag and you don't even know what direction he strafed in...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 620	Posted - 2014.02.26 10:56:00 - [122] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Frost Kitty wrote: Shotguns are fine. If you need tips on "How to Shotgun" feel free to message me in game. =^_^= No. The aiming is NOT fine. Shotguns are NOT fine. They need more damage, and DUST needs faster aiming. ...and less FPS drops, especially in CQC. And a wider FoV. In shotgun range the target merely needs a slight nudge to the side to strafe out of the narrow cone of visibility we have. Add a bit of lag and you don't even know what direction he strafed in... CCP should give SGs the same love they gave HMG because SG'S aren't precision weapons . They are short Range area of denial weapons powerfull, large spread with limited range...
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2620	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:21:00 - [123] - Quote The Shotgun aims slowly because it is one of the most massive light weapons. It is quite a bit more chunky than any of the infantry rifles. While the pistols can be aimed quickly, and the Infantry Riles are still fairly light to handle, the Shotgun is a ponderous thing for a light or medium suit to be carrying. Only the heavy weapons are slower to aim, and slower to bring to bare when coming out of a sprint. That of course is the RP explanation. From a game play perspective the slow aiming of the shotgun is one of the many balance features which keeps the ShotgunGÇÖs high alpha damage from being overpowered. Now wether these factors are properly in balance is another matter. Lets look at what they are. Damage is balanced by: - Short rang - Slow aim & time required to bring to bare coming out of a sprint. - Rate of fire - Ammo capacity - Reload speed Hit detection is not a balancing factor, and if there is a problem, then it needs to be fixed. Currently the balance has been thrown off due to the popularity of Brick tanking to compensate for the short TTK. Normally brick tanking would be far less common due to having to sacrifice mobility to get that extra health, and because normally it would not be as needed. However, with such a short TTK mobility is less beneficial and larger health pools are vastly more helpful. Essentially automatic weapons became more powerful, the community compensated by brick tanking their suits, and the shotgun got left behind. It may be that the Shotgun has too short a range, is ponderously slow when aiming, and needs a faster rate of fire. Or it may be that buffing any of these things at the same time that people are switching from brick tank fits to speed or shield recharge fits, could make the Shotgun suddenly Over Powered. You saw what happened when AV was nerfed and Tanks were buffed at the same time. I would favour leaving the Shotgun unchanged for 1.8, and then assessing the state of the Shotgun two weeks after 1.8 drops. Then determining if the Shotgun needs a buff for the following patch. And of course, hit detection is not a Balance factor, so they should fix any problems there at their first opportunity. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2620	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:28:00 - [124] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: CCP should give SGs the same love they gave HMG because SG'S aren't precision weapons . They are short Range area of denial weapons powerfull, large spread with limited range... If Shotguns were shown to have no dispersion, then I am sure CCP would fix that bug just as they fixed the HMG once it was finally proven that the HMG had no more dispersion than a Laser Rifle. (I sort of wish they would bring the old HMG back as a Precision HMG as I finally got good with it once I figured out how it worked.) However, aside from some hit detection issues, it appears that Shotgun dispersion is working as intended. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 209	Posted - 2014.02.27 02:06:00 - [125] - Quote It's not so much Deadzone as it is acceleration. So to recap, acceleration needs to be shortened (should take less time to reach full aiming speed), and max sensitivity needs to be increased two fold as a start.
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 209	Posted - 2014.02.27 02:09:00 - [126] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The Shotgun aims slowly because it is one of the most massive light weapons. It is quite a bit more chunky than any of the infantry rifles. While the pistols can be aimed quickly, and the Infantry Riles are still fairly light to handle, the Shotgun is a ponderous thing for a light or medium suit to be carrying. Only the heavy weapons are slower to aim, and slower to bring to bare when coming out of a sprint. That of course is the RP explanation. From a game play perspective the slow aiming of the shotgun is one of the many balance features which keeps the ShotgunGÇÖs high alpha damage from being overpowered. Now wether these factors are properly in balance is another matter. Lets look at what they are. Damage is balanced by: - Short rang - Slow aim & time required to bring to bare coming out of a sprint. - Rate of fire - Ammo capacity - Reload speed Hit detection is not a balancing factor, and if there is a problem, then it needs to be fixed. Currently the balance has been thrown off due to the popularity of Brick tanking to compensate for the short TTK. Normally brick tanking would be far less common due to having to sacrifice mobility to get that extra health, and because normally it would not be as needed. However, with such a short TTK mobility is less beneficial and larger health pools are vastly more helpful. Essentially automatic weapons became more powerful, the community compensated by brick tanking their suits, and the shotgun got left behind. It may be that the Shotgun has too short a range, is ponderously slow when aiming, and needs a faster rate of fire. Or it may be that buffing any of these things at the same time that people are switching from brick tank fits to speed or shield recharge fits, could make the Shotgun suddenly Over Powered. You saw what happened when AV was nerfed and Tanks were buffed at the same time. I would favour leaving the Shotgun unchanged for 1.8, and then assessing the state of the Shotgun two weeks after 1.8 drops. Then determining if the Shotgun needs a buff for the following patch. And of course, hit detection is not a Balance factor, so they should fix any problems there at their first opportunity. Edit: RP explanation for Shotguns having a short range: The Shotgun in DUST is a Plasma weapon. It fires a number of small supper heated pellets of plasma that are held in electromagnetic suspension until fired. (Otherwise the shotgun would melt into slag.) These superheated pellets contain an immense amount of energy in an unstable state. When they impact the target they release that heat energy, vaporizing the surface they impact, causing an explosive out-gassing of vaporized material. Very deadly at close range, but as the pellets travel through the air they out-gas and cool, losing much of that stored energy. At 15m they impact like hot paint balls and by 25m they would have literally evaporated. No. I don't care if the shotgun is a "high Alpha weapon", it already has a con, which is it's smurf range of effectiveness. That range problem alone should be enough of a penalty. There is no reason I can't AIM as fast as someone moves. It doesn't make sense. Hold on, I'll be back, I gotta call Johnnie Cochran. He's got a mean Chewbacca Defense that wins cases like these.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 623	Posted - 2014.02.27 09:06:00 - [127] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: CCP should give SGs the same love they gave HMG because SG'S aren't precision weapons . They are short Range area of denial weapons powerfull, large spread with limited range... If Shotguns were shown to have no dispersion, then I am sure CCP would fix that bug just as they fixed the HMG once it was finally proven that the HMG had no more dispersion than a Laser Rifle. (I sort of wish they would bring the old HMG back as a Precision HMG as I finally got good with it once I figured out how it worked.) However, aside from some hit detection issues, it appears that Shotgun dispersion is working as intended. Maybe dispersion is working as intended but the current implementation is stupid, the SG does not hit everything in the circle you need to be dead on target to get a hit. And to be honest the operation skill (spread reduction ) makes things worse. The SG has so many flaws: - a skill tree that does not benefit the SG - unreliable HD (ok this is true for most singleshot weapons) - rather low alpha (for a SG) - ridiculous optimal range
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 387	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:10:00 - [128] - Quote Simple solution just fix HD and range. I'll be happy.
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 246	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:16:00 - [129] - Quote Lightning xVx wrote: Simple solution just fix HD and range. I'll be happy. add 10 meter 600 splash damage and also burning effect damage 500 over time Fatal Absolution bench proficiency lvl 5 why so serious zatara
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 175	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:19:00 - [130] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. against anything should be OHK but for hevays i should admit that they should take 2 minimum

Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1350	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:37:00 - [131] - Quote Data: Weapon,Range,Efficiency,Target Shield,Target Armor,Remaining Shield,Remaining Armor,Total Damage CRG (42x12),5m,1,153,446,0,158,441 CRG (42x12),5m,1,153,446,0,158,441 CRG (42x12),5m,1,153,446,0,158,441 CRG (42x12),5m,1,153,446,0,158,441 CRG (42x12),5m,1,153,446,0,158,441 DREN (40x12),5m,1,153,446,0,191,408 DREN (40x12),5m,1,153,446,0,212,387 DREN (40x12),5m,1,153,446,0,193,406 DREN (40x12),5m,1,153,446,0,212,387 DREN (40x12),5m,1,153,446,0,181,418 DREN (40x12),5m,1,371,298,0,224,445 DREN (40x12),5m,1,371,298,0,219,450 DREN (40x12),5m,1,371,298,0,212,457 DREN (40x12),5m,1,371,298,0,223,446 DREN (40x12),5m,1,371,298,0,223,446 DREN (40x12),12m,0.5,371,298,210,298,161 DREN (40x12),12m,0.5,371,298,170,298,201 DREN (40x12),12m,0.5,371,298,189,298,182 DREN (40x12),12m,0.5,371,298,169,298,202 DREN (40x12),12m,0.5,371,298,232,298,139 Observations: At 5 meters, Standard Shotguns hit for 350-450 (high variability). At 5 meters, Advanced Shotguns hit for 400-450 (low variability). * Didn't test Prototype; projecting 450-500 (low variability). * Test conducted with Shotgun Operation V, Proficiency V. Side Note: * Each step outside of 5 meters returns a massive Efficiency Rating and Damage Output drop. Conclusions: * Scouts and Low HP Med-Frames can be OHK'd at 5 meters. * Medium to High HP Med-Frames and Heavies cannot be OHK'd. Recommendation: * Shotgunners should be using Nova Knives or a Fine Rifle.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 896	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:45:00 - [132] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Recommendation: * Shotgunners should be using Nova Knives or a Fine Rifle. There's a world of difference between a 5m effective range and a 1m effective range. I'm trying to get better with the knives but they are really tough to use, especially on maps without a city socket as the primary battle area. Whether it's better to use a rifle - maybe. To each his own. I prefer getting up close and personal, just not close enough to pig-stick the other guy ;)
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 383	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:51:00 - [133] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. Its actually fine as is, butin 1.6 they were fixed and fine, then in 1.7 they went back to missing 30% of the time.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1351	Posted - 2014.02.27 13:51:00 - [134] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Recommendation: * Shotgunners should be using Nova Knives or a Fine Rifle. There's a world of difference between a 5m effective range and a 1m effective range. I'm trying to get better with the knives but they are really tough to use, especially on maps without a city socket as the primary battle area. Whether it's better to use a rifle - maybe. To each his own. I prefer getting up close and personal, just not close enough to pig-stick the other guy ;) Very much impressed with guys like you, Fusion, Lightning xVx. I cannot argue with your results :-) That said, you Shotgun Heroes would likely perform better this build with a Fine Rifle ... * Similar DPS. * No 5m Range Restriction. * No Backpedal / Bunny Hop Counter. * Less Risk (closing gap, disclosing position). * More Tactical Options (cover, engagement angles, etc). * Better Odds vs Multiple Targets. * Etc Etc Etc ^ Lots of Benefits. No Draw Backs (other than less Style). Just food for thought. Maybe this will all change in 1.8. For now, CCP really doesn't like Shotguns.
Frank Olson Usul BLACK-GUARD Die Fremdenlegion 70	Posted - 2014.02.27 15:04:00 - [135] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. If the Shotguns should be 1-hit killers, what should the nova-knives be then? 0 hit killers?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries General Tso's Alliance 6872	Posted - 2014.02.27 15:17:00 - [136] - Quote Frank Olson Usul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: They simply don't do enough damage. A proto shotgun with a complex damage mod is just barely good enough to take down an STD suit in one shot. Shotguns NEED the one shot killing power, since their DPS is garbage. If the Shotguns should be 1-hit killers, what should the nova-knives be then? 0 hit killers? Nova knives are sidearms and take no ammo. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
DEZKA DIABLO 0uter.Heaven 316	Posted - 2014.02.27 15:35:00 - [137] - Quote Yup totally wasted points going to proficiency 4, alt has lv 1 sg and theirs basically no difference except I might get one more shot off, which makes a diff trying to unload a clip but not to shoot two or three consecutive shots Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 79	Posted - 2014.02.27 16:30:00 - [138] - Quote I don't know, they seem fine to me, i'm a Shotgun user myself. My problem is the RoF, but i'm willing to invest SP into that proficiency skill and max it out. Plus, the RoF is only a problem because the ttk is too low so other weapons kill you way too fast. But that's being changed in 1.8, and a TTK increase seems like enough buff for the Shotty, i believe.
JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 79	Posted - 2014.02.27 16:32:00 - [139] - Quote DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Yup totally wasted points going to proficiency 4, alt has lv 1 sg and theirs basically no difference except I might get one more shot off, which makes a diff trying to unload a clip but not to shoot two or three consecutive shots Have you seen Jolly Rog3r?? He's a beast with a shotgun. In his videos i clearly see a huge difference between his RoF and mine. And he only has proficiency to lvl4, i have none. It's a great advantage.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1352	Posted - 2014.02.27 16:46:00 - [140] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Yup totally wasted points going to proficiency 4, alt has lv 1 sg and theirs basically no difference except I might get one more shot off, which makes a diff trying to unload a clip but not to shoot two or three consecutive shots Have you seen Jolly Rog3r?? He's a beast with a shotgun. In his videos i clearly see a huge difference between his RoF and mine. And he only has proficiency to lvl4, i have none. It's a great advantage. Slight advantage. Noticeable every 2 levels. Huge? No.

JP Acuna Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives 79	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:04:00 - [141] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Jolly's also a beast with a Rail Rifle. Good players are good players. "Look at so-and-so" isn't a measure of balance. Which means you need skill to be good with a shotgun, not the shotgun be good for you.
Marc Rime 293	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:52:00 - [142] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Jolly's also a beast with a Rail Rifle. Good players are good players. "Look at so-and-so" isn't a measure of balance. Which means you need skill to be good with a shotgun, not the shotgun be good for you. I think what he meant was that player skill can compensate for gear deficiencies and that you, therefore, can't tell if a weapon is balanced just because one player does well with it. So yes, you're right. Shotguns require more player skill, but it's because the player need to make up for its deficiencies. Thus, shotguns are under powered.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1354	Posted - 2014.02.27 17:52:00 - [143] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Jolly's also a beast with a Rail Rifle. Good players are good players. "Look at so-and-so" isn't a measure of balance. Which means you need skill to be good with a shotgun, not the shotgun be good for you. Agreed. Skill intensive. Unforgiving. Yet comparable DPS to Fine Rifles. Which are infinitely more versatile. Go figure.
Annie Oakley II TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 19	Posted - 2014.02.27 18:40:00 - [144] - Quote ^ Amen.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 269	Posted - 2014.02.27 19:33:00 - [145] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Recommendation: * Shotgunners should be using Nova Knives or a Fine Rifle. There's a world of difference between a 5m effective range and a 1m effective range. I'm trying to get better with the knives but they are really tough to use, especially on maps without a city socket as the primary battle area. Whether it's better to use a rifle - maybe. To each his own. I prefer getting up close and personal, just not close enough to pig-stick the other guy ;) Very much impressed with guys like you, Fusion, Lightning xVx. I cannot argue with your results :-) That said, Shotgun Heroes would perform even better this build with a Fine Rifle ... * Similar DPS. * No 5m Range Restriction. * No Backpedal / Bunny Hop Counter. * Less Time between Engagements (flanking, positioning, stalking). * Less Risk (disclosing position to close gap). * Superior Tactical Options (cover, elevation, angles). * Better Odds vs Multiple Targets. * Etc Etc Etc ^ Lots of Benefits. No Draw Backs (other than less Style). Just food for thought. Maybe this will all change in 1.8. Doubtful. CCP really doesn't like Shotguns. I can attest to this. I've been using the CR much more frequently over the past few weeks, and my average monthly/weekly stats have gone through the roof. Earlier this week I went into a Skirm solo to test a new Pro Gal SG build, and ended up going 31/3, one of only 2-3 on my team that got over 9 kills or went positive. The problem is, just because I can do really well with the shogun every few games, doesn't mean it's equal with the other weapons. I fought tooth and nail for every single one of those kills, and was constantly focused solely on not dieing. With a Boundless CR, 20+ kills? <5 deaths? No problem. Find a good mid range position, throw down an Allotek Nanohive, and watch the kills roll in. The CR takes significantly less effort, has significantly less risk, and ultimately puts much better numbers on the board. Almost all the players you see doing well with the shotgun have other weapons, and they probably do just as well or better with them.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1355	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:09:00 - [146] - Quote Annie Oakley II wrote: ^ Amen. Take note, newberries. We are in the presence of a God :-)
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 624	Posted - 2014.02.27 20:23:00 - [147] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Jolly's also a beast with a Rail Rifle. Good players are good players. "Look at so-and-so" isn't a measure of balance. Which means you need skill to be good with a shotgun, not the shotgun be good for you. This rather means good players can make crap weapons work...but at the same time they will be even better with a good weapon. That someone get kills with a SG doesn't mean the weapon is fine. I get kills with the laser and even with the PLC its possible and there are some guys doing great things with the PLC on occasion...
DEZKA DIABLO 0uter.Heaven 318	Posted - 2014.02.28 00:41:00 - [148] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: DEZKA DIABLO wrote: Yup totally wasted points going to proficiency 4, alt has lv 1 sg and theirs basically no difference except I might get one more shot off, which makes a diff trying to unload a clip but not to shoot two or three consecutive shots Have you seen Jolly Rog3r?? He's a beast with a shotgun. In his videos i clearly see a huge difference between his RoF and mine. And he only has proficiency to lvl4, i have none. It's a great advantage. Ya but you don't base a weapon on how the best players in the game, that's what got sg an scouts NERFED going into uprising, plus nobody makes videos on how many times the sg F's up Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 212	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:09:00 - [149] - Quote Marc Rime wrote: JP Acuna wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Jolly's also a beast with a Rail Rifle. Good players are good players. "Look at so-and-so" isn't a measure of balance. Which means you need skill to be good with a shotgun, not the shotgun be good for you. I think what he meant was that player skill can compensate for gear deficiencies and that you, therefore, can't tell if a weapon is balanced just because one player does well with it. So yes, you're right. Shotguns require more player skill, but it's because the player need to make up for its deficiencies. Thus, shotguns are under powered. Yes, the aiming in general is *****. The acceleration is too slow, it takes too long to reach full speed. Plus, aiming speed is still too slow at 100% sensitivity. Go on BF3 with sensitivity set at 80% then come back to DUST, and you'll see what I mean. The way aiming is right now, shotguns can not be used face to face to win most encounters, flanking is more effective right now, since your opponent won't be strafing. Assuming you're dampened of course.
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 340	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:17:00 - [150] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: I never understood why Shotgun doesn't get a Proficiency damage boost. Without that, it stays a perpetual noob killer and that's about it. Some pros do well with it, but those same people would do well with just about anything. Because proficiency redefines base damage so the proto shotgun that does 44 dmg per pellet before damage mods is now up to 50.6 a shot (506 dmg a shot if all 10 pellets land) and then if you're running 3x cplx dmg mods its even crazier being about a 26.7% increase on top of that. You'd be doing almost 650+ dmg a shot not counting resists. 1shot killing power isn't needed, 2shots is more than enough if you're flanking.

Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 257	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:20:00 - [151] - Quote well 2 shots to kill someone in the 3m range, only 1 hit kill is at pointblank range, and that means touch them with your barrel, low rate of fire, hit detection, and some other things make the shotgun not only underpowered but almost impossible to use, i used it before and it just repulses me now, only good against unaware heavies We speak the Dragon's language of flame and rage. Together we shall weave a tale of destruction without equal...
Medical Crash CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 212	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:22:00 - [152] - Quote Phazoid wrote: well 2 shots to kill someone in the 3m range, only 1 hit kill is at pointblank range, and that means touch them with your barrel, low rate of fire, hit detection, and some other things make the shotgun not only underpowered but almost impossible to use, i used it before and it just repulses me now, only good against unaware heavies The aiming is garbage, this is the biggest problem. I say low damage and range come after that.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 909	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:24:00 - [153] - Quote Phazoid wrote: well 2 shots to kill someone in the 3m range, only 1 hit kill is at pointblank range, and that means touch them with your barrel, low rate of fire, hit detection, and some other things make the shotgun not only underpowered but almost impossible to use, i used it before and it just repulses me now, only good against unaware heavies And aware enemies that think they can outstrafe/run me. GO AHEAD AND TRY COWARDS I HAVE MORE STAMINA AND MORE SPEED AND ALL AROUND BADASSERY THAN YOU EVER COULD!!! P.S [I don't know what p.s means someone tell me] I'm a classic shotgun scout. Psycho Scout that likes knives and explosions Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- Cal Logi
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 909	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:26:00 - [154] - Quote The aim speed is so slow its faster to hop into the game and shoot them myself then to wait for the game to catch up. Psycho Scout that likes knives and explosions Cool McCoolNess- Incubus Speedy McFaster- Cal Logi
Hagintora Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 277	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:37:00 - [155] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: P.S [I don't know what p.s means someone tell me] I'm a classic shotgun scout. "Post Script." You're Welcome.
Tectonic Fusion 1172	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:42:00 - [156] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Make operations +5% ROF per level Make proficiency +3% damage per level Increase optimal and effective range by 2 meters Fixed shotgun Shotguns are anything but fine Exacta. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 909	Posted - 2014.03.04 04:46:00 - [157] - Quote Hagintora wrote: PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: P.S [I don't know what p.s means someone tell me] I'm a classic shotgun scout. "Post Script." You're Welcome. Thank you so much. Cause you make me freakin mad!!
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1812	Posted - 2014.03.04 05:08:00 - [158] - Quote I don't use shottys but I do die to them, I fear their sound because I know if they get in top of me I have at max three shots and I'm down. Usually it is only one or two. I run an advanced Amarr logi with three advance plates and an advanced extender perfect armor and shield skills. The sound makes me wake up and pay attention, I am not saying they don't need a small tweak but as of right now a good shotgunner is kind of scary. "You people voted for Hubert Humphrey, and you killed Jesus." Raoul Duke
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1384	Posted - 2014.03.06 02:46:00 - [159] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: I don't use shottys but I do die to them, I fear their sound because I know if they get in top of me I have at max three shots and I'm down. Usually it is only one or two. I run an advanced Amarr logi with three advance plates and an advanced extender perfect armor and shield skills. The sound makes me wake up and pay attention, I am not saying they don't need a small tweak but as of right now a good shotgunner is kind of scary. What you're sounds alot like a 2nd chance. So the guy who runs half-way around the map, gets behind you undetected, closes the gap to within 5 meters is ... "Kind of Scary"? He should be the End of You. Every time. Not "Kind of Scary". Fortunately for non-shotgunners, CCP thinks you deserve a 2nd chance. Or a 3rd and 4th chance. If you happen to be a Proto Logi or Heavy.
Tectonic Fusion 1191	Posted - 2014.03.07 07:35:00 - [160] - Quote Scout Registry wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: I don't use shottys but I do die to them, I fear their sound because I know if they get in top of me I have at max three shots and I'm down. Usually it is only one or two. I run an advanced Amarr logi with three advance plates and an advanced extender perfect armor and shield skills. The sound makes me wake up and pay attention, I am not saying they don't need a small tweak but as of right now a good shotgunner is kind of scary. So the guy who runs half-way around the map to break your line, manages to get behind you undetected, then close the gap to within 5 meters is ... "Kind of Scary"? He should be the End of You. Every time. Not "Kind of Scary". Fortunately for non-shotgunners, CCP shares your mentality. CCP agrees that prototype shotgun at point-blank range should be Kind of Scary. CCP thinks you deserve a 2nd chance, even though that Shotgunner had you dead to rights. Or a 3rd and 4th chance. If you happen to be a Proto Logi or Heavy. 5 meters. That's our range. And what do we get for sneaking into range? Kinda Scary. Give me a Fine Rifle. I can sneak up behind someone at 50 meters much more easily than 5. And I kill just as quickly. Seriously. Nothing about Shotguns this build makes sense. The only logical explanation is that someone smashed a Dev in Chrome. My money's on Calamity Jane. So true. Solo Player Squad status: Locked



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