DUST Search - Shotguns are underpowered

Medical Crash wrote:

Fox Gaden wrote:

When hit detection was fixed it dramatically increased applied DPS for automatic weapons. It did not change the DPS for high Alpha weapons. It did make High Alpha weapons not miss as much, but missing due to bad hit detection was always more apparent in high alpha weapons than in automatic weapons.

The result was that when hit detection was fixed all automatic weapons got increased DPS, while Shot Guns, Sniper Rifles, Nova Knives etc stayed the same.

Because Automatic weapons got more applied DPS, most people started fitting as much Plate as they possibly could to increase their health pool, in order extend the TTK against them so they might have time to react. The result of this was an overall increase to the health of most dropsuits, due to brick tanking becoming by far the most common fit.

The end result of all this, is that Shotguns can no longer 1 shot most medium frame suits.

However, if the TTK is extended the brick-tank fit will no longer be so essential, and other more versatile fits will take its place. The result will be that Shotguns will once again be able to 1-shot most medium frame suits.

Therefore, I would advocate not doing anything to the shotgun until we see how it performs after players have had a few weeks to adjust to the changes in 1.8.

Again, aiming needs to be fixed, it's too slow, we need two or three times the sensitivity we have now, with lower deadzone.


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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2608	Posted - 2014.02.25 18:49:00 - [1] - Quote When hit detection was fixed it dramatically increased applied DPS for automatic weapons. It did not change the DPS for high Alpha weapons. It did make High Alpha weapons not miss as much, but missing due to bad hit detection was always more apparent in high alpha weapons than in automatic weapons. The result was that when hit detection was fixed all automatic weapons got increased DPS, while Shot Guns, Sniper Rifles, Nova Knives etc stayed the same. Because Automatic weapons got more applied DPS, most people started fitting as much Plate as they possibly could to increase their health pool, in order extend the TTK against them so they might have time to react. The result of this was an overall increase to the health of most dropsuits, due to brick tanking becoming by far the most common fit. The end result of all this, is that Shotguns can no longer 1 shot most medium frame suits. However, if the TTK is extended the brick-tank fit will no longer be so essential, and other more versatile fits will take its place. The result will be that Shotguns will once again be able to 1-shot most medium frame suits. Therefore, I would advocate not doing anything to the shotgun until we see how it performs after players have had a few weeks to adjust to the changes in 1.8. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2609	Posted - 2014.02.25 20:29:00 - [2] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: When hit detection was fixed it dramatically increased applied DPS for automatic weapons. It did not change the DPS for high Alpha weapons. It did make High Alpha weapons not miss as much, but missing due to bad hit detection was always more apparent in high alpha weapons than in automatic weapons. The result was that when hit detection was fixed all automatic weapons got increased DPS, while Shot Guns, Sniper Rifles, Nova Knives etc stayed the same. Because Automatic weapons got more applied DPS, most people started fitting as much Plate as they possibly could to increase their health pool, in order extend the TTK against them so they might have time to react. The result of this was an overall increase to the health of most dropsuits, due to brick tanking becoming by far the most common fit. The end result of all this, is that Shotguns can no longer 1 shot most medium frame suits. However, if the TTK is extended the brick-tank fit will no longer be so essential, and other more versatile fits will take its place. The result will be that Shotguns will once again be able to 1-shot most medium frame suits. Therefore, I would advocate not doing anything to the shotgun until we see how it performs after players have had a few weeks to adjust to the changes in 1.8. Again, aiming needs to be fixed, it's too slow, we need two or three times the sensitivity we have now, with lower deadzone. I was arguing against a DPS buff at this time. None of that precludes an functionality tweak. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2620	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:21:00 - [3] - Quote The Shotgun aims slowly because it is one of the most massive light weapons. It is quite a bit more chunky than any of the infantry rifles. While the pistols can be aimed quickly, and the Infantry Riles are still fairly light to handle, the Shotgun is a ponderous thing for a light or medium suit to be carrying. Only the heavy weapons are slower to aim, and slower to bring to bare when coming out of a sprint. That of course is the RP explanation. From a game play perspective the slow aiming of the shotgun is one of the many balance features which keeps the ShotgunGÇÖs high alpha damage from being overpowered. Now wether these factors are properly in balance is another matter. Lets look at what they are. Damage is balanced by: - Short rang - Slow aim & time required to bring to bare coming out of a sprint. - Rate of fire - Ammo capacity - Reload speed Hit detection is not a balancing factor, and if there is a problem, then it needs to be fixed. Currently the balance has been thrown off due to the popularity of Brick tanking to compensate for the short TTK. Normally brick tanking would be far less common due to having to sacrifice mobility to get that extra health, and because normally it would not be as needed. However, with such a short TTK mobility is less beneficial and larger health pools are vastly more helpful. Essentially automatic weapons became more powerful, the community compensated by brick tanking their suits, and the shotgun got left behind. It may be that the Shotgun has too short a range, is ponderously slow when aiming, and needs a faster rate of fire. Or it may be that buffing any of these things at the same time that people are switching from brick tank fits to speed or shield recharge fits, could make the Shotgun suddenly Over Powered. You saw what happened when AV was nerfed and Tanks were buffed at the same time. I would favour leaving the Shotgun unchanged for 1.8, and then assessing the state of the Shotgun two weeks after 1.8 drops. Then determining if the Shotgun needs a buff for the following patch. And of course, hit detection is not a Balance factor, so they should fix any problems there at their first opportunity. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2620	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:28:00 - [4] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: CCP should give SGs the same love they gave HMG because SG'S aren't precision weapons . They are short Range area of denial weapons powerfull, large spread with limited range... If Shotguns were shown to have no dispersion, then I am sure CCP would fix that bug just as they fixed the HMG once it was finally proven that the HMG had no more dispersion than a Laser Rifle. (I sort of wish they would bring the old HMG back as a Precision HMG as I finally got good with it once I figured out how it worked.) However, aside from some hit detection issues, it appears that Shotgun dispersion is working as intended. Fox Gaden: DUST Wall of Fame, 2014