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bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 735	Posted - 2013.12.23 05:36:00 - [1] - Quote With the on going struggle Dust514 seems to be going through patch after patch to maintain their "Player Base" ... (4k and falling) Disclaimer: I have played Dust514 for what going on 2 years now im an avid PC FPS/MMO player of the past 15years and over the past 7 months I've had to completely relearn the controller to "Stay Competitive" Because of what what CCP has done to this game and the mouse and keyboard input.. So sure part of my outlook towards Dust is bias when it come to controller inputs.. But also being an EVE Online player of 6years I have a lot of respect for CCP and their no BULLSHIT attitude especially when it comes to the anything goes Sandbox nature of their tittle/s.. With that said after trying to get a friend who which I've spent the majority of those 6years with in EVE Online and a competitive PC shooters as well, to play Dust tonight.. It only took about three hours on an 8mil (His passive SP Character he registered back 9months ago) he was blown away at how dumb down and how absolutely absurd the mouse and keyboard controls and mechanics were, especially after trying to rotate his tank turret with multiple swipes across his desk. Sure he could just pick up the Controller, but you have to understand it can take some people months to master the controller. Especially, when its a competitive (possible paying) customer, not to many players would stick around like I have or pay when there are thousands of other tittles they could just hook their preferred input up to and enjoy... After an hour conversation with me trying to stick up for CCP , the numerous low rating reviews which he was referencing and the fact that Dust514 can barley hold on to 4k players.. He linked me this article on How Valve avoided hindering their game by alienating mouse and keyboard players and yet Counter Strike continues to have millions of Unique Player Logins Here are a few qoutes from Mr. Faliszek from valve Mr. Faliszek wrote: "We think that if you're really good with the controller, and you can match the fidelity of movement of the mouse and keyboard, then you'll hold your own. If not, well, you'll just be matched with people who play like you," Faliszek said, adding that PS3 players can also use a mouse and keyboard if they choose. Mr. Faliszek wrote: "When bringing Counter-Strike to PS3 and Xbox, we wanted to make sure we weren't 'noobing' it, or dumbing it down. The game has an entry point for new players in its Casual Mode, but it's not ticking off the top players," he said. IE: Pub Matches vs FW v PC Mr. Faliszek wrote: "These two communities want a new game that brings them together again -- to make them whole,". CCP You were almost the first game to fully accomplish this (somewhere around Chromosome) but failed with the release of Uprising when you alienated the mouse and keyboard gamers. With the massive amount of players on PC, It reminds me of and old saying 'you're steeping over a quarter to pick up a nickle.. '
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 28	Posted - 2013.12.23 05:40:00 - [2] - Quote I'd like your post a lot more if it didn't seem like you believe the low population has to do with the controls as oppose to the game legitimately being bad.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 736	Posted - 2013.12.23 05:43:00 - [3] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: I'd like your post a lot more if it didn't seem like you believe the low population has to do with the controls as oppose to the game legitimately being bad. Yeah I need to add a disclaimer "I don't believe the controls are the soul purpose of the low population" But on the other hand if you go back through the low-rated reviews every single one of them mention the poor controls and sloppy mechanics.. On the same side of the coin not alienating a certain Input, Could/Would improve the numbers..
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1385	Posted - 2013.12.23 06:26:00 - [4] - Quote Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls. After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that. But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now. I support SP rollover.
DeadlyAztec11 2866	Posted - 2013.12.23 06:34:00 - [5] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls. After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that. But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now. As long as Dust remains a console title they will always put the controller first. The reason is that tHe mouse allows extremely better aim than a controller, fact, period. Because it is easier to aim with your entire arm compared to.just using your thumb. »We still have our honor!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11375	Posted - 2013.12.23 06:36:00 - [6] - Quote World of Warcraft is at 7.7 million now give or take. Population of Warhammer online is currently 0. Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1996	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:20:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. leaderboard daily. Yeah right 500k players on eve sure thing. a game where the majority of players have either 2 or more accounts at once. I dont mean multiple chars on the same account i literally mean that people can play 2 (or more) pilots at once. So the actual playerbase would be around 200k max. The whole stats of online players for eve and dust is just a big hoax. Just look at the login screen when you enter dust. It tells you how many players are in total on the server. What it doesnt tell you is how many of that are actual dust players. if you want to see how many players are playing dust you have to go to: http://eve-offline.net/?server=dust you can aswell see how many new players get into the game etc. Even when everyday you see like 500~600 chars beeing made you can see that the playerbase doesnt really get larger. The reason for that is that the SP gap between rookies and vets is insane high. And the current tanks running havoc doesnt help neither. If people see no chance of a fair game then they turn their back onto the game and go back to titles like BF4 or COD:ghosts. Cause on those games you have allways a fair chance simply cause every 1 has the same gear and no unfair advantages. You can argue about skill is more important then gear but in the end the guy in a militia 350HP suit and a militia AR will have it alot harder then the guy who runs a full proto suit that has 800HP and a gun that does like 50% more damage and has aswell better range. in my opinion we need a ranking system in some sorts of lvl's. lvl1 stands for a total n00b who goes negative every match and like 200WP at the ned. While a lvl 10 guy is a beast of a player and gets allmost allways the top scores. The skill lvl should be going up or down regarding the performance and matchmaking should put players from similar lvl against each other. Like players from lvl 1-3 face each other or 4-7 and finally 8-10. This would make teams more balanced and reduce the "pub stomping" issue. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 303	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:40:00 - [8] - Quote I do appreciate the issue you're bringing to the forums - I too have been a similar situation where someone I know just flat out refused to play Dust because of the strange mouse/keyboard input, and also the lack of customisable layouts. The lower player count you mention is probably also due to numerous other game issues (gigantic empty maps, bad rendering, poor frame rates, game imbalances, unfinished content, lack fo pve, etc.) but it's fair to say that mouse/keyboard issue goes a long way to giving the game a broad appeal. Also, the other game numbers you mention are total numbers, not concurrent players.
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 303	Posted - 2013.12.23 13:41:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: World of Warcraft is at 7.7 million now give or take. Population of Warhammer online is currently 0. Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. Aion currently averages 1.5k players per server cocurrent players. Runescape are good at hiding thier population but they have a leaderboard, only 400,000+ people show up on the leaderboard daily. this happens a lot - you're comparing total player number to concurrent player numbers. EVE online does not have 500,000 concurrent players. For Aion it sounds about right, but then that's per server, and they have many servers ,so total concurrent player base is much higher than that. WoW concurrent player base is much longer than their total player base (8 million or so) - last time I saw it somewhere I think it was about a million, which is still impressive.
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 271	Posted - 2013.12.23 14:26:00 - [10] - Quote This thread makes me want to quit dust even more than I already do. Problem is trying to find a console title that matches this games unique team play style and RPG characteristics. The only thing keeping me here now is my corp. You make a good point, it's hard to see Dust lasting the next few months especially with the significant amount of un satisfied players.

TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 271	Posted - 2013.12.23 14:28:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: World of Warcraft is at 7.7 million now give or take. Population of Warhammer online is currently 0. Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. Aion currently averages 1.5k players per server cocurrent players. Runescape are good at hiding thier population but they have a leaderboard, only 400,000+ people show up on the leaderboard daily. I fail to see what your point is? This is still way more than Dust. Are you arguing for the sake of arguing?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6017	Posted - 2013.12.23 14:46:00 - [12] - Quote I don't think you can compare the two. Valve has a history of shooter games behind them. CCP doesn't. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 739	Posted - 2013.12.23 14:54:00 - [13] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: This thread makes me want to quit dust even more than I already do. Problem is trying to find a console title that matches this games unique team play style and RPG characteristics. The only thing keeping me here now is my corp. You make a good point, it's hard to see Dust lasting the next few months especially with the significant amount of un satisfied players. Ditto and I hear this from a lot if people "if it wasn't for my corp I'd be gone" Part of me thinks its too late for CCP to turn it around.. I think myself and a lot of the vets were really looking at 1.7 to fix some of the persistent issues that have been plaguing Dust... But instead it seems like CCP made it even more of a grind and frustrating to play, be it controls, tanks, FW LP, Diversity, PC lag, FW lag, broken weapons, whatever it is. Just seems like it added to the already broken "core" that CCP has been struggling to fix month after month.. With how excited CCP seems to get when releasing new content on top of all these problems, it just seems to me they are missing the big picture and maybe trying to appeal to the wrong audience...
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 740	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:03:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I don't think you can compare the two. Valve has a history of shooter games behind them. CCP doesn't. I don't think we can use this as an excuse anymore maybe a year ago sure, but they have many examples to follow like the one behind Valve with CS.. Not to mention they have a successful flagship which is EVE online that they crownd on following a similar ideology..
Blondie Roads Introverts 4 Hire 34	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:11:00 - [15] - Quote Agree +1 Bring back chromozone mouse controlls or flat out raw and I will come back and start playing dust again. Until then I bid you a good ay Sir. I Said GOOD DAY SIR.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:20:00 - [16] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Large quote exalting Valve's "Keyboard OVER Gamepad" support, while complaining about CPP's "Gamepad OVER Keyboard" support I see nothing about assisting for the deadspace at the center of a Game Pad. They basically outright stated that they will be catering the control and precision settings to their most populous method of input... KB/M CCP's most populous method of input is the Game Pad. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 413	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:20:00 - [17] - Quote It is not just that the KB/M input isn't raw.... it just seems like they change something about the controls every single patch, and I have to relearn and re-tweak the controls each time. What a pain in the ass. EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005 DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed.
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 245	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:21:00 - [18] - Quote OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 963	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:28:00 - [19] - Quote Why was he swiping the mouse like that to turn the turret, does your friend lack self control? Also the graphs show a slight increase in user count, not a decrease.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 740	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:33:00 - [20] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. Your narrow view on comparison just makes you sound ignorant it couldn't possibly be comparing two companies both started on PC and both busting into the console market and that pretty similar view that has been totally thrown away with every lil update CCP does ? It's outlooks like yours that is running Dust into the ground, why don't you ask CCP if they consider this an MMO ? Sure PvE is a huge part of mainting a player base but this is also something to add to the list that CCP has put on the back burner if you actually read my posts you can see that I fully agree the game in a whole needs help but that doesn't change the fact that CCP could increase the player base as it stands by branching out to the huge competitive FPSMMO PC community. ..

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 810	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:47:00 - [21] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. Agreed. This is a massive oversimplification of the problems here tailored to his own individual (sorry... "soul') experience and bias. If they went to raw KBM tomorrow, you would not get some massive influx of competitive PC FPS players who have just been itching for this to happen. Same with the MMO crowd. You certainly could also alienate as many non-KBM players who would suddenly get super ***d off about getting killed by people pulling things the DS3 just wont let them do with pinpoint aiming, macros, etc. (I'll stop you right there b4 the inevitable "They can use KBM too". Well, you can damn well use a DS3 too then can't you?) PvE would have 10x the effect on player counts that improving KBM would. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 741	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:02:00 - [22] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. Agreed. This is a massive oversimplification of the problems here tailored to his own individual (sorry... "soul') experience and bias. If they went to raw KBM tomorrow, you would not get some massive influx of competitive PC FPS players who have just been itching for this to happen. Same with the MMO crowd. You certainly could also alienate as many non-KBM players who would suddenly get super *****d off about getting killed by people pulling things the DS3 just wont let them do with pinpoint aiming, macros, etc. (I'll stop you right there b4 the inevitable "They can use KBM too". Well, you can damn well use a DS3 too then can't you?) PvE would have 10x the effect on player counts that improving KBM would. Ok so answer me this, why were numbers higher in Chromosome when we had "damn near Rawinput" ? And I'm sorry but the bad players complaing they got raped by a keyboard and mouse still happens to this day and kb/m is nowhere as good as controller if I had isk for every hate mail I get assuming I'm using keyboard and mouse I'd be a able to call faction warfare sustainable. ...
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 246	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:13:00 - [23] - Quote Could it be that Chromosome was new... shiny... Eve players were excited (Well a few of them anyway). Why in the world would you connect the higher numbers of Chromosome with mouse and keyboard? Balance was better across the board. The new to veteran player gap was smaller. Every player wasn't sitting on a pile isk. Only the best players could continuously run Proto gear in pubs. Now everyone can Proto all day if they had a decent amount of salvage pre-uprising. I was very new when uprising hit and I went from 12 million isk to 83 million isk. The balance of the game was destroyed by massive isk influx, multiple SP respecs, and higher SP sinks. Add to that a playerbase (like me) that has become jaded. Keyboard and mouse factors in there somewhere. But, it is an infinitesimally small thing compared to the balancing, polish, and content issues that plague Dust.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1387	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:17:00 - [24] - Quote All i can say at this point is that the new EP stressed FPS fundamentals and 1.8 is the infantry patch. Furthermore CCP has stated explicitly that our current point in DUST's development is focused on improving CORE systems. The only reference i can find where CCP explicitly addresses aiming for kb/m or DS3 is from CCP Remnant in the 'Advancing the Core' presentation, and there smooth aiming is referenced in the context of aim assist. Does CCP really think that their unassisted DS3 aiming and their kb/m aiming is good enough? I support SP rollover.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 743	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:27:00 - [25] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: Could it be that Chromosome was new... shiny... Eve players were excited (Well a few of them anyway). Why in the world would you connect the higher numbers of Chromosome with mouse and keyboard? Balance was better across the board. The new to veteran player gap was smaller. Every player wasn't sitting on a pile isk. Only the best players could continuously run Proto gear in pubs. Now everyone can Proto all day if they had a decent amount of salvage pre-uprising. I was very new when uprising hit and I went from 12 million isk to 83 million isk. The balance of the game was destroyed by massive isk influx, multiple SP respecs, and higher SP sinks. Add to that a playerbase (like me) that has become jaded. Keyboard and mouse factors in there somewhere. But, it is an infinitesimally small thing compared to the balancing, polish, and content issues that plague Dust. Come on now.... I've stated in my previous post that kb/m isn't the "soul" purpose of a dwindling playerbase but I believe "infinitely small" is an understatement.. Especially given the success and concurrent numbers of a lot of PC shooters/FPS MMOs, sure some franchises can't hold on to that player base but I believe if CCP could appeal to both markets and at the same time continue to fix the core and add in "meaningful" content Dust could maintain and grow by leaps and bounds !?
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 274	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:34:00 - [26] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: All i can say at this point is that the new EP stressed FPS fundamentals and 1.8 is the infantry patch. Furthermore CCP has stated explicitly that our current point in DUST's development is focused on improving CORE systems. The only reference i can find where CCP explicitly addresses aiming for kb/m or DS3 is from CCP Remnant in the 'Advancing the Core' presentation, and there smooth aiming is referenced in the context of aim assist. Does CCP really think that their unassisted DS3 aiming and their kb/m aiming is good enough? You can polish a turd as much as you want but in the end it's still a Turd...
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 810	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:37:00 - [27] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: Could it be that Chromosome was new... shiny... Eve players were excited (Well a few of them anyway). Why in the world would you connect the higher numbers of Chromosome with mouse and keyboard? Balance was better across the board. The new to veteran player gap was smaller. Every player wasn't sitting on a pile isk. Only the best players could continuously run Proto gear in pubs. Now everyone can Proto all day if they had a decent amount of salvage pre-uprising. I was very new when uprising hit and I went from 12 million isk to 83 million isk. The balance of the game was destroyed by massive isk influx, multiple SP respecs, and higher SP sinks. Add to that a playerbase (like me) that has become jaded. Keyboard and mouse factors in there somewhere. But, it is an infinitesimally small thing compared to the balancing, polish, and content issues that plague Dust. ^^^ this is also my answer. Tying bigger numbers in chromosome to the raw KBM as opposed to the massive gear/ISK disparity between noobs and vets, the fact that it was "new", and the whole bittervet phenomenon is confusing association and causality. (btw, people will obviously QQ about anything that kills them, so hatemails don't really support or refute anyone's argument, the inherent superiority of KBM in general is not really in question otherwise PC gamers would all use gamepads of some kind.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11379	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:46:00 - [28] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: World of Warcraft is at 7.7 million now give or take. Population of Warhammer online is currently 0. Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. Aion currently averages 1.5k players per server cocurrent players. Runescape are good at hiding thier population but they have a leaderboard, only 400,000+ people show up on the leaderboard daily. this happens a lot - you're comparing total player number to concurrent player numbers. EVE online does not have 500,000 concurrent players. For Aion it sounds about right, but then that's per server, and they have many servers ,so total concurrent player base is much higher than that. WoW concurrent player base is much longer than their total player base (8 million or so) - last time I saw it somewhere I think it was about a million, which is still impressive. OP made nearly as horrible comparisons I was countering with more up to date number since the numbers the OP was yanking was from years ago. Also server population cap on world of warcraft is 15k players. This includes their shared instance servers which as lead to some unpleasant experiences last year. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 275	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:59:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: World of Warcraft is at 7.7 million now give or take. Population of Warhammer online is currently 0. Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. Aion currently averages 1.5k players per server cocurrent players. Runescape are good at hiding thier population but they have a leaderboard, only 400,000+ people show up on the leaderboard daily. this happens a lot - you're comparing total player number to concurrent player numbers. EVE online does not have 500,000 concurrent players. For Aion it sounds about right, but then that's per server, and they have many servers ,so total concurrent player base is much higher than that. WoW concurrent player base is much longer than their total player base (8 million or so) - last time I saw it somewhere I think it was about a million, which is still impressive. OP made nearly as horrible comparisons I was countering with more up to date number since the numbers the OP was yanking was from years ago. Also server population cap on world of warcraft is 15k players. This includes their shared instance servers which as lead to some unpleasant experiences last year. Many MMO player populations are kept hidden for reasons of business and there are people who do not bother enough with api hooks to get all the data to generate accurate numbers. If Peak Cocurrent weekly average is about 10% of the population (which after doing math its not a true statement by a long shot but its in the same ball park) then it should give you somewhat of an idea how populated some games are and not. When are you going to realize it doesn't matter? All of those games have a much larger player base then dust does whether it be 8 million or 1 million it is still a hell of a lot more than 4,000. Again, you make these statements as if it is going to change people's perspectives of the god damned game. If you are trying to point out that the OP's numbers are over exaggerated, yeah they are. But his point is still valid and relevant. THE GAMES PLAYER BASE IS DYING!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 743	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:16:00 - [30] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: World of Warcraft is at 7.7 million now give or take. Population of Warhammer online is currently 0. Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. Aion currently averages 1.5k players per server cocurrent players. Runescape are good at hiding thier population but they have a leaderboard, only 400,000+ people show up on the leaderboard daily. this happens a lot - you're comparing total player number to concurrent player numbers. EVE online does not have 500,000 concurrent players. For Aion it sounds about right, but then that's per server, and they have many servers ,so total concurrent player base is much higher than that. WoW concurrent player base is much longer than their total player base (8 million or so) - last time I saw it somewhere I think it was about a million, which is still impressive. OP made nearly as horrible comparisons I was countering with more up to date number since the numbers the OP was yanking was from years ago. Also server population cap on world of warcraft is 15k players. This includes their shared instance servers which as lead to some unpleasant experiences last year. Many MMO player populations are kept hidden for reasons of business and there are people who do not bother enough with api hooks to get all the data to generate accurate numbers. If Peak Cocurrent weekly average is about 10% of the population (which after doing math its not a true statement by a long shot but its in the same ball park) then it should give you somewhat of an idea how populated some games are and not. When are you going to realize it doesn't matter? All of those games have a much larger player base then dust does whether it be 8 million or 1 million it is still a hell of a lot more than 4,000. Again, you make these statements as if it is going to change people's perspectives of the god damned game. If you are trying to point out that the OP's numbers are over exaggerated, yeah they are. But his point is still valid and relevant. THE GAMES PLAYER BASE IS DYING! +1 Ironwolf has his head so far up CCP's ass he can't seem to see this, It took what a year to barely hold on to 4k players ? CCP and Sony both have to realise this game is hemorrhaging and the fact is the numbers speak for themselves.. If CCP was able to pull over even a small percentage of the PC community that would crush the concurrent numbers we have now.. Oh it would make console players leave ? I really don't see anymore leaving then who already have and it sure as hell didn't hurt Counter Strike, some may say its a wide comparison but imo Dust has way more potential then CS to appeal to the PC community..

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 231	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:16:00 - [31] - Quote People keep bringing up the " Giant Map Issue " but it's not an issue when you take a look at how CCP wanted to maximize the use of vehicles with the releasing of this past patch . I don't agree with how it was done and I believe that they could have done what they ended up doing with what they had from the previous patch if they would have paid a little attention to detail , seeing as how they didn't want to have super tanks , with all of the mod slots that the previous vehicles had but they could have avoided that as well . The mods were better ( they could have used some fine tuning but that could be said about the mods that are use by infantry as well ) there was more selection and better functionality . It just seems like this refiguring , dummied down the mods as well as the skill set and most of all the vehicles . In order to have the vehicles that would make epic battles ( that we do not actually see yet ) there must be space that provides a feeling that keeps one not to feel so bottled up . So I can understand how and why they have created such maps , so that in every turn your not running into another tank or trying to avoid a LAV because some people are not great drivers and can run over others as well as crashing into other vehicles . I am thankful for these maps because in the last maps there were always tanks running into me as well as LAV's and mostly it was on purpose . Now I can avoid these jerks like I had to do yesterday when this tank ran into me on purpose so I unloaded some rounds into them on purpose . FW needs a system where they don't only punish for FF but punish those who instigate the incident . I still wonder where all of these tank users have come from when the occasional match had 4 or 5 or more LAV's and one or two tanks . Now the numbers have reversed . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1575	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:21:00 - [32] - Quote dust has been improving. 1.7 was a huge step in the right direction. yes their are some issues, but the positives far out weigh the negatives, especially once they get the tank issue worked out. they turned what used to be an issue that could only be resolved with massive coding into an issue that can be resolved with tweaking some numbers. that's great. is dust there yet? obviously no, but when I look at the improvements made since uprising was released i'd say it's great. would dust get a passing grade with any reviewers yet? nope not a chance, but regardless it's getting closer to that passing grade.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 589	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:24:00 - [33] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: All i can say at this point is that the new EP stressed FPS fundamentals and 1.8 is the infantry patch. Furthermore CCP has stated explicitly that our current point in DUST's development is focused on improving CORE systems. The only reference i can find where CCP explicitly addresses aiming for kb/m or DS3 is from CCP Remnant in the 'Advancing the Core' presentation, and there smooth aiming is referenced in the context of aim assist. Does CCP really think that their unassisted DS3 aiming and their kb/m aiming is good enough? You can polish a turd as much as you want but in the end it's still a Turd... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11380	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:24:00 - [34] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: When are you going to realize it doesn't matter? All of those games have a much larger player base then dust does whether it be 8 million or 1 million it is still a hell of a lot more than 4,000. Again, you make these statements as if it is going to change people's perspectives of the god damned game. If you are trying to point out that the OP's numbers are over exaggerated, yeah they are. But his point is still valid and relevant. THE GAMES PLAYER BASE IS DYING! Fun Fact all games die, eventually. Question is how fast? You see some of the updated numbers and how quickly those massive populations decayed some of them losing nearly 90%-100% of their player base in under 2 years. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 585	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:41:00 - [35] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: in my opinion we need a ranking system in some sorts of lvl's. lvl1 stands for a total n00b who goes negative every match and like 200WP at the ned. While a lvl 10 guy is a beast of a player and gets allmost allways the top scores. The skill lvl should be going up or down regarding the performance and matchmaking should put players from similar lvl against each other. Like players from lvl 1-3 face each other or 4-7 and finally 8-10. This would make teams more balanced and reduce the "pub stomping" issue. Some kind of "intelligent matching" thing... Hmm, sounds like a great idea! ... except we already "have" it, and it aint working. So, since we know that doesnt work, something different (but still along the same lines) needs to be tried. The one thing that hasnt been tried so far, is gear-based tiering. (Allow choice of matches to be basic only, basic+adv only, or no-limits) So lets try it already! No more "the playerbase isnt large enough". Just TRY IT. I know of lots of people who are interested in allowing this setting, and then playing only in middle, or bottom, settings. THere are lots of potential workarounds for small playerbase, IF they are needed. I suspect they wont be. other than the "no limits" tier, which I suspect will get quite lonely. Aww, poor widdle stompers...
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 276	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:42:00 - [36] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TcuBe3 wrote: When are you going to realize it doesn't matter? All of those games have a much larger player base then dust does whether it be 8 million or 1 million it is still a hell of a lot more than 4,000. Again, you make these statements as if it is going to change people's perspectives of the god damned game. If you are trying to point out that the OP's numbers are over exaggerated, yeah they are. But his point is still valid and relevant. THE GAMES PLAYER BASE IS DYING! Fun Fact all games die, eventually. Question is how fast? You see some of the updated numbers and how quickly those massive populations decayed some of them losing nearly 90%-100% of their player base in under 2 years. I agree with you, I just don't see why you feel the need to correct the OP on his numbers when we all know even a small percentage of those other title's player bases, far outnumber the player base of Dust. Now I know you are going to say, "Well, TcuBe3. Dust was never meant to have a huge player base!" I will agree with you on that. I will also agree with you that most games player base will deteriorate very rapidly. But correct me if I am wrong, that Dust 514 was created with longevity in mind? Hence why a player must play 7 years to fully cap all skills? Which seems hard to calculate as our skill tree continues to change like I change my socks. Back to my point, If the player base continues to leave because of new shiny stuff and out of frustration and impatience. How does CCP propose to keep these people around for the 7 years? If 2 years is it, why does it take me so long to get SP? I don't want instant gratification. That is what keeps me coming back for more. I think CCP does a really good job of keeping me hooked and keeping me engaged but I think when I say this I speak for more than just myself. "My patience is running thin with this CCP". 2 new guns, and some changes to the vehicle skill tree isn't enough, and the KB/M issue is just another negative on top of a huge pile of negatives. But really what I think it boils down to is that as more and more people leave the player base it will only exponentially deteriorate as our friends and corp mates thin out so shall we. I think it's happening faster than you or I think it is.
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 276	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:47:00 - [37] - Quote calisk galern wrote: dust has been improving. 1.7 was a huge step in the right direction. yes their are some issues, but the positives far out weigh the negatives, especially once they get the tank issue worked out. This is like saying, Yeah the women I married has some flaws and she will be a great wife once she stops ******* everyone in the neighborhood. You are trying to look for something that is great that isn't there yet. most games have potential, question is how long are you willing to shell out hours of grind session in order to see it happen?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 813	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:52:00 - [38] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: If you are trying to point out that the OP's numbers are over exaggerated, yeah they are. But his point is still valid and relevant. THE GAMES PLAYER BASE IS DYING! I don't dispute that last part. The playerbase is hurting, I don't think even IWS is trying to really say that's not true. However, that "only 4000 people play this game" number is thrown around all the time and it's total BS. But I digress. The OP's point is relevant, no question, because something certainly needs to be done. The validity is a little more iffy. I really don't think it's that crazy that I see this as using a known problem (low player count) to advance a certain agenda. One I do not agree with. The OP has his opinion, I have mine, you have yours, and yes even IWS is entitled to his. I think the connection being made here is not a causal one, and my personal opinion is that there are more and bigger reasons for the drop in player counts. I also don't think there would be any significant bump in the playerbase or overall satisfaction with the game. I could easily be wrong about that last part, but there is little doubt in my mind that the implementation of KBM input is not responsible for even 10% of the playerbase problem. And the fact that some friends of his who use KBM stopped playing right away, citing that as a reason, is scant evidence to the contrary, because you are making one very crucial assumption: If they were happy with the control scheme, they would have no other issues with the game and become long-term players like the rest of us. That's a huge leap: 1) Hardcore PC FPS players: Would quickly see this is not a AAA shooter. If the lolmechanics and ROFLag didn't make them roll their eyes and go back to COD or whatever, they might not like the fact that they have to take their lumps for a while and grind to get better gear before really becoming competitive because their l33t skillz should make them instantly relevant in every game. 2) MMO players: Time dilation is nothing new to EvE and presumably WOW, and they are all about grinding for better sh!t, but without PvE as a safe haven they wouldn't know what to do with their prof 5 in animal mobs. All I'm saying is that KBM is like a "special interest group", and this is lobbying for it. Cure the disease, not one symptom. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 746	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:53:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter. Maps are too small, quickest reflexes nullifies any fun, the gun you picked almost doesn't matter and people quit playing it right because the game rules are dumb and people do not have the tools to play beyond the game intended in a way that is deemed 'smart' but instead viewed as cheatastic. Graphics and Sound are also not the best either but it gets passing at least. I rather play Blacklight or RB6 For you to say that just goes to show how disconnected you are from competitive shooters and I guess you're really not a numbers guy ? Why don't you tell this to the 75 THOUSAND players and 1.5m unique players who login.. All your points are invalid even when comparing a dying MMO to our dismal 4k community if anything its laughable that you can compare a drop in millions to Dusts concurrent numbers...
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1578	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:55:00 - [40] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: calisk galern wrote: dust has been improving. 1.7 was a huge step in the right direction. yes their are some issues, but the positives far out weigh the negatives, especially once they get the tank issue worked out. This is like saying, Yeah the women I married has some flaws and she will be a great wife once she stops ******* everyone in the neighborhood. You are trying to look for something that is great that isn't there yet. most games have potential, question is how long are you willing to shell out hours of grind session in order to see it happen? most games don't continue to improve at the rate dust does. I play the game because their is no better option, once one comes around I will switch over, they just need to be betetr then the alternatives when they come around, and honestly division is the only game on my radar atm that could beat dust out.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11381	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:56:00 - [41] - Quote As for the Longevity thing; Riddle me this, what did mordern warfare 1 players do once they hit rank 60? What did IF do to address that for Modern Warfare 2? Then once more in 3? I know there are pain points but from what I have seen as a CPM makes me feel stupid on what they really are causing the bad 'churn rates' and it will really be up to CCP to fix them. I can advise them on how to go about fixing it but its all in the ether and formless and most scary of all there is no goddamn way to know what works and what does not until its live. New Content on eve has for the longest time been viewed as newbie bait but we know in dust 514 its not the case its veteran bait mostly. I would like to see it tipped so that it does turn into newbie bait instead but Dust 514 is far from it. There is also the long time mistake eve has done which was regard quality of life fixes as 'useless' in acquiring newbies. The CSM hammered it home into CCPs heads that quality of life fixes are good to do as well as it is more veteran bait to keep the most loyal of players around. Right now we know the effects of new content in dust will do for the current players we know that it will keep most folks already playing. Problems to address are large a numerous including acquiring newbies, keeping newbies, and turning newbies into something that isn't a newbie. This is after all a free to play game. A free to play game that cannot have a good retention rate beyond one day is not going to do well as it decreases the chances of that player from ever making a purchase. The numbers dont lie of course they don't (often the server is still subject to API errors, ie we never had 9k players cocurrent for example) Just people don't read them right. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 277	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:01:00 - [42] - Quote calisk galern wrote: TcuBe3 wrote: calisk galern wrote: dust has been improving. 1.7 was a huge step in the right direction. yes their are some issues, but the positives far out weigh the negatives, especially once they get the tank issue worked out. This is like saying, Yeah the women I married has some flaws and she will be a great wife once she stops ******* everyone in the neighborhood. You are trying to look for something that is great that isn't there yet. most games have potential, question is how long are you willing to shell out hours of grind session in order to see it happen? most games don't continue to improve at the rate dust does. I play the game because their is no better option, once one comes around I will switch over, they just need to be betetr then the alternatives when they come around, and honestly division is the only game on my radar atm that could beat dust out. no COD and BF aren't competing with dust, they are casual shooters, I prefer the games with meaning like dust. I know saying dust has meaning is a bit of a joke, but it has more meaning then COD and BF and the like. those games have no long term substance, and never will, so the little bit that dust has still puts it at the top of the charts. Well, Division looks amazing.. Thanks for that shameless plug.. looks like i'll be getting a PS4 sooner then I expected.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11382	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:14:00 - [43] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter. Maps are too small, quickest reflexes nullifies any fun, the gun you picked almost doesn't matter and people quit playing it right because the game rules are dumb and people do not have the tools to play beyond the game intended in a way that is deemed 'smart' but instead viewed as cheatastic. Graphics and Sound are also not the best either but it gets passing at least. I rather play Blacklight or RB6 For you to say that just goes to show how disconnected you are from competitive shooters and I guess you're really not a numbers guy ? Why don't you tell this to the 75 THOUSAND players and 1.5m unique players who login.. All your points are invalid even when comparing a dying MMO to our dismal 4k community if anything its laughable that you can compare a drop in millions to Dusts concurrent numbers... Tell me why I should continue play counter strike? 1. I hate how majority of the game is waiting between rounds or waiting for the round to end. 2. The game caters to twitch shooters. This is a false advertisement from the tactical shooter it falsely labels itself as. 3. Tactical decisions are severely punished, usually with death, quickly followed by round loss. 4. Maps are once again too small, too predictable, and too favored even with a handicap on the favored team. 5. The game feels far far far cheaper in production quality overall. 6. There are far too many wrong decisions made in the pre-match equipment selection. 7. Those wrong decisions are neeray ever right. 8. That one guy that gets put into matchmaking with you and ruins the entire lobby causing the entire lobby to quit within two matches 9. The game offers zero means of getting gud outside of wrist weight training, simply put if you have arthritis might as well quit playing. 10. I certainly don't feel the culture, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovsVU6mktOw seriously ruined most of CS' image for me. 11. Matchmaking needs a serious fix, losing 40 rounds in a row is rather ridiculous. I mean I know Caldari FW doesn't have any matchmaking either but at least they win once every 5 or 6 fights. 12. Too Generic 13. Feels like a bargain bin game 14. People your team quit if you have yellow or limegreen bars. 15. Has never felt original 16. I blame the origin of the COD Kiddie syndrome on this game. Disconnect? More about not wanting to connect. Also by your logic I shouldn't have quit world of warcraft for FFXIV ARR. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6018	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:15:00 - [44] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I don't think you can compare the two. Valve has a history of shooter games behind them. CCP doesn't. I don't think we can use this as an excuse anymore maybe a year ago sure, but they have many examples to follow like the one behind Valve with CS.. Not to mention they have a successful flagship which is EVE online that they crowned on following a similar ideology.. Similar ideology, yes. But Eve Online is not a first person shooter. CCP has no prior history with shooters at all. They developed only an mmo that was initially funded by a card game that hardly anyone knows about. Both are pvp games, sure. But again Eve is an mmo, not a fps. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Jake Bloodworth Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 250	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:23:00 - [45] - Quote I don't think anyone is really defending Dust as a polished game. Most people around here stay because there is no alternative.. I could go play a better shooter any day on any console/PC. But, I cannot play a shooter with equipment, skill points, vehicles, corporations, MMO side orbitals, etc. Dust is the sum of it's parts right now. It has more parts then every other shooter. The controls sure suck compared to PC dedicated titles for Kbm. The DS3 controls suck compared to COD. The graphics suck compared to Killzone. The customization sucks compared to Eve. The corporations suck compared to Eve. The vehicles suck compared to Battlefield The risk versus reward sucks compared to Eve. BUT, it has all of this in one package that no other game offers. That's the only reason we are all here. We have no place to go if this is what we want.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11382	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:24:00 - [46] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: I don't think anyone is really defending Dust as a polished game. Most people around here stay because there is no alternative.. I could go play a better shooter any day on any console/PC. But, I cannot play a shooter with equipment, skill points, vehicles, corporations, MMO side orbitals, etc. Dust is the sum of it's parts right now. It has more parts then every other shooter. The controls sure suck compared to PC dedicated titles for Kbm. The DS3 controls suck compared to COD. The graphics suck compared to Killzone. The customization sucks compared to Eve. The corporations suck compared to Eve. The vehicles suck compared to Battlefield The risk versus reward sucks compared to Eve. BUT, it has all of this in one package that no other game offers. That's the only reason we are all here. We have no place to go if this is what we want. I would like to see this fixed better. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 746	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:26:00 - [47] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter. Maps are too small, quickest reflexes nullifies any fun, the gun you picked almost doesn't matter and people quit playing it right because the game rules are dumb and people do not have the tools to play beyond the game intended in a way that is deemed 'smart' but instead viewed as cheatastic. Graphics and Sound are also not the best either but it gets passing at least. I rather play Blacklight or RB6 For you to say that just goes to show how disconnected you are from competitive shooters and I guess you're really not a numbers guy ? Why don't you tell this to the 75 THOUSAND players and 1.5m unique players who login.. All your points are invalid even when comparing a dying MMO to our dismal 4k community if anything its laughable that you can compare a drop in millions to Dusts concurrent numbers... Tell me why I should continue play counter strike? 1. I hate how majority of the game is waiting between rounds or waiting for the round to end. 2. The game caters to twitch shooters. This is a false advertisement from the tactical shooter it falsely labels itself as. 3. Tactical decisions are severely punished, usually with death, quickly followed by round loss. 4. Maps are once again too small, too predictable, and too favored even with a handicap on the favored team. 5. The game feels far far far cheaper in production quality overall. 6. There are far too many wrong decisions made in the pre-match equipment selection. 7. Those wrong decisions are neeray ever right. 8. That one guy that gets put into matchmaking with you and ruins the entire lobby causing the entire lobby to quit within two matches 9. The game offers zero means of getting gud outside of wrist weight training, simply put if you have arthritis might as well quit playing. 10. I certainly don't feel the culture, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovsVU6mktOw seriously ruined most of CS' image for me. 11. Matchmaking needs a serious fix, losing 40 rounds in a row is rather ridiculous. I mean I know Caldari FW doesn't have any matchmaking either but at least they win once every 5 or 6 fights. 12. Too Generic 13. Feels like a bargain bin game 14. People your team quit if you have yellow or limegreen bars. 15. Has never felt original 16. I blame the origin of the COD Kiddie syndrome on this game. Disconnect? More about not wanting to connect. Also by your logic I shouldn't have quit world of warcraft for FFXIV ARR. Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11382	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:34:00 - [48] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 543	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:37:00 - [49] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: Could it be that Chromosome was new... shiny... Eve players were excited (Well a few of them anyway). Why in the world would you connect the higher numbers of Chromosome with mouse and keyboard? Balance was better across the board. The new to veteran player gap was smaller. Every player wasn't sitting on a pile isk. Only the best players could continuously run Proto gear in pubs. Now everyone can Proto all day if they had a decent amount of salvage pre-uprising. I was very new when uprising hit and I went from 12 million isk to 83 million isk. The balance of the game was destroyed by massive isk influx, multiple SP respecs, and higher SP sinks. Add to that a playerbase (like me) that has become jaded. Keyboard and mouse factors in there somewhere. But, it is an infinitesimally small thing compared to the balancing, polish, and content issues that plague Dust. It had everything to do with the gun game. It was addicting in DUST, then you would get to know the community and the persistent skill system and other games where almost pointless to play. There is no gun game anymore it doesn't exist... Its skill points, Suit fitting, and math... that's who wins fights... there is no individual aiming skill, strengths and weaknesses that made gun game and the moment to moment FUN in DUST. Now it's a giant grind with little to no stimulating gun fights or even a sense of achievement in killing someone. Quote: But the skill gap is so compressed, that itGÇÖs like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says GÇ£I got a kill!GÇ¥ TheyGÇÖve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guysGÇöI see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and theyGÇÖre like GÇ£This gameGÇÖs just too hardcore. IGÇÖm awesome at Call of Duty, so thereGÇÖs something wrong with your game. Because IGÇÖm not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. IGÇÖm not the problem, itGÇÖs your game.GÇ¥ And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something thatGÇÖs not accesible enough, they canGÇÖt figure it out, we didnGÇÖt give them enough information to figure out where to go... but more often than not, itGÇÖs because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. John Gibson Pretty much sums up the argument... CS:GO has proved that M/KB raw input on console is fine and there are very real users competing in competition environments with a DS3 versus a M/KB user. And holding their own and might I say OWNING some of the M/KB players... like has happened in DUST since the beginning. Stop blaming good DS3 users on M/KB.
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 277	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:38:00 - [50] - Quote I loved Half-Life and the mod community it created. You sir, are a communist. In my mind TF2 never came out. Whatever they call "TF2" is a cartoon show compared to what it was suppose to be. -Butt Hurt Valve Fan

bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 746	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:39:00 - [51] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? I can't believe a supposed CPM just typed this....... That's ONE shooter not even a mass advertised FPS like your COD and BF titles not to mention your 12yr old self stomped your feet and asked why you should play it ? Well IDK ask the massive player base compared to the game you're deffending...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11382	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:40:00 - [52] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: I loved Half-Life and the mod community it created. You sir, are a communist. In my mind TF2 never came out. Whatever they call "TF2" is a cartoon show compared to what it was suppose to be. -Butt Hurt Valve Fan you mean this garbage? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Tf2_oldstyle.jpg CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 545	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:41:00 - [53] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Right now there is over 85k people just on the PC... and it's a consistent number.. http://steamcommunity.com/app/730 IWS can't really be trying to question the legitimacy of Counter-strike as a reference... and defend DUST... Eyes start to cry blood
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11382	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:42:00 - [54] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? I can't believe a supposed CPM just typed this....... That's ONE shooter not even a mass advertised FPS like your COD and BF titles not to mention your 12yr old self stomped your feet and asked why you should play it ? Well IDK ask the massive player base compared to the game you're deffending... You should, considering this CPM doesn't give a damn about other game's numbers because they do absolutely nothing to fix this games numbers. Period. Nice Edit btw. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 278	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:53:00 - [55] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: TcuBe3 wrote: I loved Half-Life and the mod community it created. You sir, are a communist. In my mind TF2 never came out. Whatever they call "TF2" is a cartoon show compared to what it was suppose to be. -Butt Hurt Valve Fan you mean this garbage? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Tf2_oldstyle.jpg Yes that heaping pile of garbage.. I was expecting a realistic team play shooter. The only thing that suffices was BF2 PR Have you played it?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 545	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:57:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? I can't believe a supposed CPM just typed this....... That's ONE shooter not even a mass advertised FPS like your COD and BF titles not to mention your 12yr old self stomped your feet and asked why you should play it ? Well IDK ask the massive player base compared to the game you're deffending... You should, considering this CPM doesn't give a damn about other game's numbers because they do absolutely nothing to fix this games numbers. Period. Nice Edit btw. IWS proving his ignorance on an hourly basis. TM http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/20/tripwires-devs-talk-about-research-at-the-shooting-range/ Most developers look to do research on the product they are creating... and you cannot make a FPS without thinking of counter-strike.. a game very simply made as for content but the gameplay and gungame has built Internet cafe's around it.. Has made people play the same game for a decade with little to no changes.. If gun game can addict someone to Counter-strike, and keep active numbers like this consistently with adding little to no content? wouldn't that be something to look into for DUST? A game process where people get hooked on just the gameplay... No gizmo's of a Persistent skill system, Guilds(Same thing), different roles and classes... and new additions every 30 days. Somewhere along the lines you missed what Vavle does better then most gaming companies and why most developers tip their hat to them not bad mouth them. They build games around the gameplay... FIRST... not fancy things to placate you.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 746	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:00:00 - [57] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? I can't believe a supposed CPM just typed this....... That's ONE shooter not even a mass advertised FPS like your COD and BF titles not to mention your 12yr old self stomped your feet and asked why you should play it ? Well IDK ask the massive player base compared to the game you're deffending... You should, considering this CPM doesn't give a damn about other game's numbers because they do absolutely nothing to fix this games numbers. Period. Nice Edit btw. I'm not really sure how to reply to such an arrogant and shallow comment not to mention its part of your job to bridge the gap between developers and players and if even a minority is leaving Dust you should probably swallow your pride and accept opinions. .. Also not sure what you mean by "nice EDIT" none of my current posts have been edited...
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1389	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:12:00 - [58] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? I can't believe a supposed CPM just typed this....... That's ONE shooter not even a mass advertised FPS like your COD and BF titles not to mention your 12yr old self stomped your feet and asked why you should play it ? Well IDK ask the massive player base compared to the game you're deffending... You should, considering this CPM doesn't give a damn about other game's numbers because they do absolutely nothing to fix this games numbers. Period. Nice Edit btw. IWS proving his ignorance on an hourly basis. TM http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/20/tripwires-devs-talk-about-research-at-the-shooting-range/ Most developers look to do research on the product they are creating... and you cannot make a FPS without thinking of counter-strike.. a game very simply made as for content but the gameplay and gungame has built Internet cafe's around it.. Has made people play the same game for a decade with little to no changes.. If gun game can addict someone to Counter-strike, and keep active numbers like this consistently with adding little to no content? wouldn't that be something to look into for DUST? A game process where people get hooked on just the gameplay... No gizmo's of a Persistent skill system, Guilds(Same thing), different roles and classes... and new additions every 30 days. Somewhere along the lines you missed what Vavle does better then most gaming companies and why most developers tip their hat to them not bad mouth them. They build games around the gameplay... FIRST... not fancy things to placate you. +1 for truth and clear thinking. I support SP rollover.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 591	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:22:00 - [59] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter. Maps are too small, quickest reflexes nullifies any fun, the gun you picked almost doesn't matter and people quit playing it right because the game rules are dumb and people do not have the tools to play beyond the game intended in a way that is deemed 'smart' but instead viewed as cheatastic. Graphics and Sound are also not the best either but it gets passing at least. I rather play Blacklight or RB6 For you to say that just goes to show how disconnected you are from competitive shooters and I guess you're really not a numbers guy ? Why don't you tell this to the 75 THOUSAND players and 1.5m unique players who login.. All your points are invalid even when comparing a dying MMO to our dismal 4k community if anything its laughable that you can compare a drop in millions to Dusts concurrent numbers... Tell me why I should continue play counter strike? 1. I hate how majority of the game is waiting between rounds or waiting for the round to end. 2. The game caters to twitch shooters. This is a false advertisement from the tactical shooter it falsely labels itself as. 3. Tactical decisions are severely punished, usually with death, quickly followed by round loss. 4. Maps are once again too small, too predictable, and too favored even with a handicap on the favored team. 5. The game feels far far far cheaper in production quality overall. 6. There are far too many wrong decisions made in the pre-match equipment selection. 7. Those wrong decisions are neeray ever right. 8. That one guy that gets put into matchmaking with you and ruins the entire lobby causing the entire lobby to quit within two matches 9. The game offers zero means of getting gud outside of wrist weight training, simply put if you have arthritis might as well quit playing. 10. I certainly don't feel the culture, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovsVU6mktOw seriously ruined most of CS' image for me. 11. Matchmaking needs a serious fix, losing 40 rounds in a row is rather ridiculous. I mean I know Caldari FW doesn't have any matchmaking either but at least they win once every 5 or 6 fights. 12. Too Generic 13. Feels like a bargain bin game 14. People your team quit if you have yellow or limegreen bars. 15. Has never felt original 16. I blame the origin of the COD Kiddie syndrome on this game. 17. Winning means absolutely nothing and has nearly the same emotional level as losing. Disconnect? More about not wanting to connect. Also by your logic I shouldn't have quit world of warcraft for FFXIV ARR. Also Valve has made a series of shooters that I actually really hate. I hate Half Life I hate CS I hate Left4Dead I hate TF I hate TF2 (the game not the environment it's created) There is something subconsciously wrong with all of them that doesn't vibe with me. I mean I have gone and endured terrible shooters from other game companies but valve just has something that just geniunely pisses me off from playing thier games. I actually approved some of your points until I started reading further. I hate, I hate, I,I,I. You do realize that CS is regarded as a great shooter just because it's simplicity - it's meant to be skill based and it has far more tactics than Dust. Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy Ahrendee Mercenaries 591	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:23:00 - [60] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Your points are becoming quite silly and illogical. Sworn Shield of Cat Merc.

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 484	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:24:00 - [61] - Quote Finally someone who sticks up for KB/M players. It is ridiculous how bad the controls are period. However for the keyboard and mouse inputs it is especially bad. I am glad devs of a different title can come out and say basically "Controller or keyboard you are only as good as you are at the game". The controls have very little to do with it like I keep saying. It totally depends on how good you are with your preferred device. Now CCP can we please get actual mouse 1:1 input for dust? Like the man says, wiping your mouse across the desk 4 to 5 times just to turn a turret around is very frustrating indeed. Not to mention in CQC how much of a disadvantage we are at using the mouse and keyboard compared to controllers with their auto-aim.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 484	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:29:00 - [62] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. You know if it wasn't for us PC players EVE would have not survived to begin with. DUST would have not been created out of that and I dont know the exact numbers but I imagine a lot of the current player base COME from the PC EVE online game. So dont slate us. CCP should have made DUST for PC end of story. The PS3 limits this game in so many ways. In 2015 Sony will stop supporting PS3 online I think? (I could be wrong) so yea I still think bringing dust to PC is the way forwards. Damn, the PS3 can barely run this game! Certainly not at any sort of decent frame rate 50% of the time! (This doesn't stop the game from being fun sometimes however, I just wish it was on PC)
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 280	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:34:00 - [63] - Quote Yes +1 Explain again why Dust wasn't developed for PC?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 551	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:58:00 - [64] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. You know if it wasn't for us PC players EVE would have not survived to begin with. DUST would have not been created out of that and I dont know the exact numbers but I imagine a lot of the current player base COME from the PC EVE online game. So dont slate us. CCP should have made DUST for PC end of story. The PS3 limits this game in so many ways. In 2015 Sony will stop supporting PS3 online I think? (I could be wrong) so yea I still think bringing dust to PC is the way forwards. Damn, the PS3 can barely run this game! Certainly not at any sort of decent frame rate 50% of the time! (This doesn't stop the game from being fun sometimes however, I just wish it was on PC) I Hope DUST never comes to the PC, though have a rather nice one and would be able to engage the the hardware battle to stay competitive. CCP has left as big of a footprint as they can currently in the PC world, with EVE online being one of the biggest success stories in MMORPG's and being a persistent title for coming on 11 years. The only way to truly expand the CCP product would be to target console users. And CCP chose right with the Playstation support, and have got things even some of the biggest developers haven't out of Sony. Not to mention choosing the console platform that will be the standard for the next generation the PS4. Most of the PS4 games you see are nothing but 360 and PS3 games with texture packsTexture pack example.. Most developers admit they haven't reached the limits of what the PS3 can do. CCP's main problem is they keep trying to compete for the same market as BF and CoD, when they should be catering to a much different FPS market and grab the players those two genre's cant. If what they where after was the CoD and BF market they would of been better off working on PVE in chromosome then even thinking about planetary conquest.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1391	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:06:00 - [65] - Quote Imo, DUST would be destroyed in short order by moving to PC. The first time a major DUST corp fails their EVE-side employers because the other team brought better bots to the fight would be the end of it. Because after that, what's the point? I support SP rollover.
Avinash Decker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 90	Posted - 2013.12.24 02:35:00 - [66] - Quote CSGO doesn't even have cross platform anymore your article you quoted is outdated. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-nixes-cross-platform-counter-strike-go-play/1100-6364406/ Although it still has m/kb support , but I don't know how it is.
Roman FourFingers 1	Posted - 2013.12.24 02:55:00 - [67] - Quote It is apparent that most people here are "To close to the tree to see the forest" What do i mean by that you ask ? Your to involved in the game to see it for what it really is.... simply read on and this should answer all your questions and arguments.. First - Input devices----The PS3 was designed and built to have a choice of using 2 types of inputs 1. Controller 2. Key board and mouse .. you the customer get to choose which one you want to use, if you choose the inferior one over the superior one then that is your choice and u have no right to complain its unfair ---- it was best said by Mr. Faliszek (Valve/Steam) himself when integrating CS to the console... Quote: "We think that if you're really good with the controller, and you can match the fidelity of movement of the mouse and keyboard, then you'll hold your own. If not, well, you'll just be matched with people who play like you," Faliszek said, adding that PS3 players can also use a mouse and keyboard if they choose. nuff said... Second -updates/fixes/buigs etc. -these games we all play are a business to generate profit PERIOD.. and depending on what website you use for research developing/advertising/launching/maintaining/updating etc. a game like this cost any where from 10 mil to 80 million or more. the game needs to generate and maintain a profit or it DIES.. Folks this game is in a Level 4 Trauma unit in the ICU wing on life support* heres some simple math,..this game has give or take 4000 players about 10% of which do the micro transactions (thats what generates profit for the game) remember this game was free so the only profit it get is from that.. lets be generous here and say 20% are doing them and they are spending probably 10-15 bucks average per month each lets again be generous and say they are spending 20 bucks average each per month. 4000 x 20% = 800 x 20 per = 16000 per month if the game cost 30mil to develop and maintain it will take 1,875 months just to break even, and thats if those players never stop spending each of those 1,875 months.... (Hell most top game developers monthly salary is more than 16,000 per man) so by now im sure you can hear (paddles rubbing together) "CLEAR --CHACHUNK "......."WAIT STILL NO PULSE" HIT HIM AGAIN (paddles rubbing together) "CLEAR--CHACHUNK" ...Docter "ok we have a pulse faint but its still alive"... So basically your updates and improvements that you cant figure out why SONY and CCP arnt on top of and "why arnt they fixing it?" and "where is all this stuff we were promised" because this game is a financial disaster to them its hemorrhaging money they have reduced the staff to bare bones and removed any high paid personal by relocating them to other projects or they have been released ... I wouldn't be surprised if this game is been put in the hands of interns at this point.. as they (CCP and SONY) hold meetings trying to find a exit strategy, cut their losses and abandon this abortion,. that is business they are not non-profit organizations ... They need a fast big influx of gamers cash (Blood transfusion of cash) or this game you love will be gone and both CCP and SONY will have egg on their face on this one.. How do they do that you ask?.. They will have to put their pride and ego in their pockets and take this game to the players that spend cash to play games --the PC Gamers-- this game needs a PC platform to bring in the crew that has no problem investing hundreds and sometimes thousand on their characters through either PLEX and/or Micro transactions. and they stick with their character for years. Becouse lets face facts 99% of console gamers are flavor of the month players they play the newest game like battlefield or Call of Duty etc. for 3 to 6 months and then move to the next newest and greatest only to go back and play a old game every now and again ..console gamers that play this game are clearly not FOTM gamers but just not enough of you to keep this game alive and injected with a steady stream of cash. Look at the number of PC gamers currently subscribed to MMO's 20 millionish, if they could only attract lets a ridiculously low number of them let's say 1/4 of 1 percent .... thats 50,000 players the game is alive making big profits and will get a huge development team again... Gentlemen you will then be playing the baddest ass FPS ever... In closing basically what has happened here is CCP and SONY have made a statement to PC gamers "hey we don't want you people playing this game" by not making a PC platform and going one step further by sabotaging the key board and mouse to add a second layer to keep out PC gamers and now they are paying the price for that. So if you really love this game as console player you should join ranks with the PC/ Mouse keyboard gamers to push them to allow it to happen... it's only way this game will live.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 822	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:10:00 - [68] - Quote Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Roman FourFingers 1	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:17:00 - [69] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ******* play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ...
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 823	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:50:00 - [70] - Quote Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ... Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant. They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!

Roman FourFingers 5	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:55:00 - [71] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ******* play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ... Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant. They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue. people like you are the reason this game is dead and gone ...
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. 1002	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:57:00 - [72] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: As for the Longevity thing; Riddle me this, what did mordern warfare 1 players do once they hit rank 60? What did IF do to address that for Modern Warfare 2? Then once more in 3? I know there are pain points but from what I have seen as a CPM makes me feel stupid on what they really are causing the bad 'churn rates' and it will really be up to CCP to fix them. I can advise them on how to go about fixing it but its all in the ether and formless and most scary of all there is no goddamn way to know what works and what does not until its live. New Content on eve has for the longest time been viewed as newbie bait but we know in dust 514 its not the case its veteran bait mostly. I would like to see it tipped so that it does turn into newbie bait instead but Dust 514 is far from it. There is also the long time mistake eve has done which was regard quality of life fixes as 'useless' in acquiring newbies. The CSM hammered it home into CCPs heads that quality of life fixes are good to do as well as it is more veteran bait to keep the most loyal of players around. Right now we know the effects of new content in dust will do for the current players we know that it will keep most folks already playing. Problems to address are large a numerous including acquiring newbies, keeping newbies, and turning newbies into something that isn't a newbie. This is after all a free to play game. A free to play game that cannot have a good retention rate beyond one day is not going to do well as it decreases the chances of that player from ever making a purchase. The numbers dont lie of course they don't (often the server is still subject to API errors, ie we never had 9k players cocurrent for example) Just people don't read them right. arrogance like not telling folks that militia tanks were going to be cheap nothing about that in 1.7 patch notes and so no way to warn of avoidable problems better question is once April hits then what's the point of keeping a PS3 when the PS4 does it better ? Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 823	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:03:00 - [73] - Quote Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ... Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant. They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue. people like you are the reason this game is dead and gone ... Lol. Still haven't made any counter points. Don't worry though, I'm not going to bother checking this thread to see if you do. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 748	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:09:00 - [74] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ******* play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ... Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant. They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue. people like you are the reason this game is dead and gone ... Lol. Still haven't made any counter points. Don't worry though, I'm not going to bother checking this thread to see if you do. In all do respect he has a point, EVE Online can't pay for this game forever and you mentioned Core and PvE will increase player base, well unless they have PvE just sitting in a box somewhere ready to push the button on it, its gonna take some time.. Time=Man power = Money Its taken CCP 7 months now to roll out "Server Stability" patches every month, come on now ? What fixes have they done to the core in the last 7months.. ? PC Lag has rolled over to FW, TTK has gotten seemingly shooter with every patch and the only fix in Diversity has been an improved HMG which shouldn't of been broken in the first place... ? The controls, Mechanics and Core is all broken and has been broken for months on in, his points valid maybe CCP just doesn't have the funding or the man power to really bring the updates needed..
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 824	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:35:00 - [75] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: In all do respect he has a point, EVE Online can't pay for this game forever and you mentioned Core and PvE will increase player base, well unless they have PvE just sitting in a box somewhere ready to push the button on it, its gonna take some time.. Time=Man power = Money Its taken CCP 7 months now to roll out "Server Stability" patches every month, come on now ? What fixes have they done to the core in the last 7months.. ? PC Lag has rolled over to FW, TTK has gotten seemingly shooter with every patch and the only fix in Diversity has been an improved HMG which shouldn't of been broken in the first place... ? The controls, Mechanics and Core is all broken and has been broken for months on in, his points valid maybe CCP just doesn't have the funding or the man power to really bring the updates needed.. +1. Thank you for making a salient point in a reasonable fashion. You may be right, maybe CCP is cutting their losses and pulling out, If so, and CCP really has moved to a skeleton crew and can't put the necessary manpower into finishing the core content and PvE, then let's be brutally honest, the game is doomed no matter what. Personally, I don't think that's the case, I mean, why would they hire the new chief if they were going to simultaneously gut his staff? I'd also call 2 new weapons more diversity compared to the HMG. Admittedly it's little more than a step in the right directions, but a positive step nonetheless. I also don't really agree that they have done nothing to fix the core in the last 6 months. Hit detection is substantially better. Should that have been done months ago? Yes. Still, it is something they've made excellent strides on lately. Let's cut to the chase here. Nobody reasonable or unbiased thinks that Dust is a healthy or successful game right now. All I'm saying is that anyone who suggests that KBM support alone is going to "save" Dust or is somehow the key to doing so is just a touch myopic. It also doesn't do anything to address the core mechanics or missing core content. I'd argue that if they do have limited resources as you suggest, that's what they need to spend their time on! Like i said before, just because KBM works doesn't mean a hardcore FPS player is suddenly going to think this is a great game! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 749	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:59:00 - [76] - Quote Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're playing in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign..
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 731	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:06:00 - [77] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls. After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that. But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now. Meh. All competitively spirited console controller players would not like that "mild AA". At the core of it KDR does not matter if you did not earn it fair and square. Dual inputs was one of the major foundation mistakes of this game. The only way to fix it imo would be to have an option to play only against controller players if a controller player chooses so. For example, make it possible that some battles are only accessible if you are playing controller with AA off. This kind of set up in a dual input game I could live with. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
DootDoot Da Short Buss 138	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:08:00 - [78] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign.. I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1395	Posted - 2013.12.24 17:17:00 - [79] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls. After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that. But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now. Meh. All competitively spirited console controller players would not like that "mild AA". At the core of it KDR does not matter if you did not earn it fair and square. Dual inputs was one of the major foundation mistakes of this game. The only way to fix it imo would be to have an option to play only against controller players if a controller player chooses so. For example, make it possible that some battles are only accessible if you are playing controller with AA off. This kind of set up in a dual input game I could live with. +1. Good suggestion. I like it a lot because peeps who were looking to play the game at it's highest levels would know that they'd need to practice in the lower tiers with AA off to even have a hope of doing well at the top end. And most importantly, the choice rests with the player. For peeps looking to transition as smoothly as possible, an Aim Assist 'slider' control might be welcome. The fear is ofc that peeps would go the route of risk-aversion/short-term gain and hence exclude themselves from higher level gameplay. That would be ok - if we could hit 20,000 concurrent players. I support SP rollover.
DootDoot Da Short Buss 143	Posted - 2013.12.31 06:59:00 - [80] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Ludvig Enraga wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls. After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that. But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now. Meh. All competitively spirited console controller players would not like that "mild AA". At the core of it KDR does not matter if you did not earn it fair and square. Dual inputs was one of the major foundation mistakes of this game. The only way to fix it imo would be to have an option to play only against controller players if a controller player chooses so. For example, make it possible that some battles are only accessible if you are playing controller with AA off. This kind of set up in a dual input game I could live with. +1. Good suggestion. I like it a lot because peeps who were looking to play the game at it's highest levels would know that they'd need to practice in the lower tiers with AA off to even have a hope of doing well at the top end. And most importantly, the choice rests with the player. For peeps looking to transition as smoothly as possible, an Aim Assist 'slider' control might be welcome. The fear is ofc that peeps would go the route of risk-aversion/short-term gain and hence exclude themselves from higher level gameplay. That would be ok - if we could hit 20,000 concurrent players. Still forgetting the fact that no DS3 user in Chromosome ever needed an active Aim Assist to dominate the Leaderboards. Most people base their assumptions on some bogus study Microsoft did about "Cross platforming" Unreal tournament and Gears Of War. The major fact staring them in the face they are missing though is the "*Cross Platform*" meaning PC extreme Hardware with Mouse and Keyboard Versus Console players with a gamepad. And yes the console players got destroyed by the superior hardware, and 0 input lag of the KB/M on the PC. But this was never ever the case in DUST, KB/M support that has been offered here has always been approached with balance in mind. There has never been proof or even a hint of any gamepad users not being able to compete in PC or FW, or everyone or even a majority being forced to use KB/M(Like everyone is forced to use Aim Assist) There has always been some input delay fused into the KB/M support in DUST 514, even was present in Chromosome. And i know people who play in competitive FPS leagues on the PC for CoD and CS:GO, that plays exclusively Gamepad(360 Controller Albeit)And would give anyone a run for their money. The fact is Aim Assist hurts DUST 514. Fact. I have "X" Health. You have "X" Health. We both look, Aim assists lock; we move the joystick up slightly, Skills points, suit and health points and that is the winner. No Gun game; No skill No sense of achievement or drive to improve.. And the worst feeling that changed for me that made DUST so magical. "Damn that guy got me this time, my skill, aim and movement wasn't good enough and he got me, This time!. I'm gonna spawn back and get him!!" That gun game and enjoyment is lacking in Dust 514 and is what made it so magical from the moment to moment.

DUST 514 Player 12345678914 Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 592	Posted - 2013.12.31 07:06:00 - [81] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago. Has it stayed there? And when I played EVE I ran five accounts. I don't think I was exactly an exception. Account vs. player etc. You have a lot to answer for.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 354	Posted - 2013.12.31 07:35:00 - [82] - Quote The population numbers for Dust are comparable to the most populated Planetside 2 server. Which isn't saying much, since PS2 is doing pretty **** poor in terms of quality. I don't think that the KB/M controls are at the core of the player retention issues, I think it's more to do with the game's fit and finish, the length of the Academy, and matchmaking. The population of the game is stable, the problem is that new players aren't sticking around to grow the population. I will agree that doing a PC launch for Dust 2.0 (or whatever patch isn't laughably bad) would be a good way to increase the potential playerbase. I hope someone at CCP is working on cross-compiling this game for PS4, Windows, MAC and SteamOS. It's the only sane thing to do given how much money they've spent on development.
Asha Starwind VEXALATION CORPORATION Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage 7	Posted - 2013.12.31 07:39:00 - [83] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. You're ******, Trauma center level has nothing to with quality, it's a preparedness rating on the severity of injuries they are equipped to handle, and they are rated up to 5. You may have been right if you said there's no such thing as a level IV trauma center with an ICU.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11485	Posted - 2013.12.31 07:55:00 - [84] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Your points are becoming quite silly and illogical. Sorry but the feeling is mutual considering how terribly useless the counter points are and lets be ultimately honest. Knowing our own numbers is not going to fix dust 514 either. The only thing it does it tells us we have a problem, a problem I know when and where we lose our players to which nearly majority of the community is getting entirely wrong as to when we lose our players. I mean where is the logic of bringing in a gun range into this conversation? Did they shoot people with these rifles? Most combat rifles are deadly or disabling enough with just one bullet yet we still have shooters with real military guns where can put a quarter clip into a guy and he is not only walking but viable enough to kill you back. Most shooters do not also account for weapon weight. Some weapons are truly cumbersome and something you don't run and gun with upright and accurately. No the only thing bringing guns to the range does is for sound recording, modeling, functional model rigging, aesthetics. Only very few games have gone out of their way to try to portray weapons more realistically and most of those have fallen off the radar. ARMA is the only one I know that has consistently stayed on the radar because they get rid of some frustrations of a realistic shooter, namely getting more realistic as possible. In my opinion going to the gun range (to which I hate to say it but CCP doesn't have access to such things locally at most of its studios) is not useful. Researching into why and how Halo changed the concept of gaming would be far more useful. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
Valmorgan Aubaris Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate 95	Posted - 2013.12.31 08:39:00 - [85] - Quote Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character? I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between. Thats what needs to be fixed. EVE alliance seeks mercs, join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today! Let's gank Scotty.
DootDoot Da Short Buss 146	Posted - 2013.12.31 16:31:00 - [86] - Quote Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character? I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between. Thats what needs to be fixed. Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is. Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users.
DootDoot Da Short Buss 147	Posted - 2013.12.31 16:46:00 - [87] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Your points are becoming quite silly and illogical. Knowing our own numbers is not going to fix dust 514 either. The only thing it does it tells us we have a problem, a problem I know when and where we lose our players to which nearly majority of the community is getting entirely wrong as to when we lose our players. In my opinion going to the gun range (to which I hate to say it but CCP doesn't have access to such things locally at most of its studios) is not useful. Researching into why and how Halo changed the concept of gaming would be far more useful. So apparently IWS has known exactly why DUST keeps loosing numbers since chromosome. And it has nothing to do with gun game or clunky aiming mechanics that has plagued DUST since Uprising launch. And nothing to do with an Active Aim assist that tracks targets for you. Apparently to him actually understanding how a gun works in practicality like at a gun range... Wouldn't help game development, even when almost every major FPS title goes out and does that research first hand. And yes even in China there are options to do this silly. http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.php Halo gave us a generation of Shooters with health points that recover over time, and possibly the shield Idea(Not that CCP wouldn't of done it in a FPS) "Microsoft announced last night that Halo 4 made over $220 million worldwide in the first 24 hours on sale" With those sale numbers you would think the game would have some kind of life still? but its a dead game with those numbers... and one of the biggest publishing backers in software. We aren't gonna match halo numbers,there is to much that goes with Halo besides a video game. The fact is DUST is boring other then playing with friends and leveling your character. And this never was the case until Aim assist came in and took out all the challenge and sense of achievement in killing someone. You just don't like that your idea of adding Aim Assist back into the game has been one of the key factors to the DUST community Dieing since September. And can no longer blame the lack of summer vacations... Seeing how we just went through the biggest holiday season in the year with even worse numbers.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 775	Posted - 2013.12.31 16:46:00 - [88] - Quote DootDoot wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character? I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between. Thats what needs to be fixed. Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is. Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users. QFT
Valmorgan Aubaris Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services ACME Holding Conglomerate 98	Posted - 2013.12.31 17:20:00 - [89] - Quote DootDoot wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character? I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between. Thats what needs to be fixed. Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is. Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users. Nah, thats not the case, many in the academy are DUST players doing the same thing I am, try it you'll see. EVE alliance seeks mercs, join Stellar and Orbital Strategic Services today! Let's gank Scotty.
DootDoot Da Short Buss 149	Posted - 2013.12.31 17:32:00 - [90] - Quote Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: DootDoot wrote: Valmorgan Aubaris wrote: Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character? I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between. Thats what needs to be fixed. Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is. Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users. Nah, thats not the case, many in the academy are DUST players doing the same thing I am, try it you'll see. Sure there might be a couple. But with the new accounts created every day in DUST(Now just to keep those new players without vet's ripping their face off in even battle academy). wouldn't make sense looking at the numbers... some? sure. Back to the fact that poor matchmaking has always been a part of DUST, that is a persistent problem within DUST. Aim Assist was added in September 1.4 patch. All of Chromosome, Most of Beta in fact(the time when we had over 12k player peaks) And Uprising 1.0,1.1.1.2,1.3 Existed without Aim assist. Its a key factor that has fundementally changed DUST as a game. Planetary Conquest for all it's flaws has been a player made matchmaking system. And through it's use by the players there has been more then enough even matchmaking. Aiming mechanics, Frame rate, Latency, Collision Mechanics. these are the key persistent issues in DUST, Matchmaking for it's problem with NPE is a small one. We have had corp battles, and planetary conquest where those who participated in the prime of those activities would argue they had some of the most even matches in player skill. Preying on Young Dust'ers Has always been a pass time for people. That IS WHY CCP had to limit the stay of people preying on those new players.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11486	Posted - 2013.12.31 17:43:00 - [91] - Quote DootDoot wrote: So apparently IWS has known exactly why DUST keeps loosing numbers since chromosome. And it has nothing to do with gun game or clunky aiming mechanics that has plagued DUST since Uprising launch. And nothing to do with an Active Aim assist that tracks targets for you. Apparently to him actually understanding how a gun works in practicality like at a gun range... Wouldn't help game development, even when almost every major FPS title goes out and does that research first hand. And yes even in China there are options to do this silly. http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.php Halo gave us a generation of Shooters with health points that recover over time, and possibly the shield Idea(Not that CCP wouldn't of done it in a FPS) "Microsoft announced last night that Halo 4 made over $220 million worldwide in the first 24 hours on sale" With those sale numbers you would think the game would have some kind of life still? but its a dead game with those numbers... and one of the biggest publishing backers in software. We aren't gonna match halo numbers,there is to much that goes with Halo besides a video game. The fact is DUST is boring other then playing with friends and leveling your character. And this never was the case until Aim assist came in and took out all the challenge and sense of achievement in killing someone. You just don't like that your idea of adding Aim Assist back into the game has been one of the key factors to the DUST community Dieing since September. And can no longer blame the lack of summer vacations... Seeing how we just went through the biggest holiday season in the year with even worse numbers. Wrong type of gun range: http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/MP0117/darcpic_2.jpeg located in Arkansas is far more practical for a developer to learn to get through for the kind of game we're in. While a paintball range would be near equivalent most of your PP guns are nowhere near as massive nor heavy and cumbersome as real equipment. Also if the only thing you think Halo did was give us regenerative health you need to look at the far much larger picture Example: Before Halo http://wadido.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nerd.jpg After Halo http://web-images.chacha.com/images/which-high-school-stereotype-are-you-jun-5-2012-600x400.jpg Had halo followed the exact formula that attracted the same customers counterstrike attracts; the former will likely still be applied today and consoles would still continue to struggle to be in everyone's livings rooms, steam would not be making its own console and http://createyoursuccess.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/people_casual_clothes.jpg would have been the trend of players being tracked as the first major shift in games which would likely seen the start of ea and other publishers rampaging into the 'mobile market' like no tommarow. Why I would hazard to say the reason why counter strike is not popular is for the same exact reasons dust 514 is not that popular either. Which is taking one of these http://createyoursuccess.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/people_casual_clothes.jpg and turning them into one of these http://www.gamergirltay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Wild-Gamer2.jpg in 10 minutes. Halo did it, Call of Duty did it, And the only reason why Battlefield despite its inability to 10 minute a player is still mattering only converts previous shooter players and advertising that targets the other two groups. They are however dangerously undoing everything they worked hard for by trying to do the 10 minute process albit horrifically. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
DootDoot Da Short Buss 149	Posted - 2013.12.31 17:46:00 - [92] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DootDoot wrote: So apparently IWS has known exactly why DUST keeps loosing numbers since chromosome. And it has nothing to do with gun game or clunky aiming mechanics that has plagued DUST since Uprising launch. And nothing to do with an Active Aim assist that tracks targets for you. Apparently to him actually understanding how a gun works in practicality like at a gun range... Wouldn't help game development, even when almost every major FPS title goes out and does that research first hand. And yes even in China there are options to do this silly. http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.php Halo gave us a generation of Shooters with health points that recover over time, and possibly the shield Idea(Not that CCP wouldn't of done it in a FPS) "Microsoft announced last night that Halo 4 made over $220 million worldwide in the first 24 hours on sale" With those sale numbers you would think the game would have some kind of life still? but its a dead game with those numbers... and one of the biggest publishing backers in software. We aren't gonna match halo numbers,there is to much that goes with Halo besides a video game. The fact is DUST is boring other then playing with friends and leveling your character. And this never was the case until Aim assist came in and took out all the challenge and sense of achievement in killing someone. You just don't like that your idea of adding Aim Assist back into the game has been one of the key factors to the DUST community Dieing since September. And can no longer blame the lack of summer vacations... Seeing how we just went through the biggest holiday season in the year with even worse numbers. Wrong type of gun range: http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/MP0117/darcpic_2.jpeg located in Arkansas is far more practical for a developer to learn to get through for the kind of game we're in. While a paintball range would be near equivalent most of your PP guns are nowhere near as massive nor heavy and cumbersome as real equipment. Also if the only thing you think Halo did was give us regenerative health you need to look at the far much larger picture Example: Before Halo http://wadido.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nerd.jpg After Halo http://web-images.chacha.com/images/which-high-school-stereotype-are-you-jun-5-2012-600x400.jpg Had halo followed the exact formula that attracted the same customers counterstrike attracts; the former will likely still be applied today and consoles would still continue to struggle to be in everyone's livings rooms, steam would not be making its own console and http://createyoursuccess.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/people_casual_clothes.jpg would have been the trend of players being tracked as the first major shift in games which would likely seen the start of ea and other publishers rampaging into the 'mobile market' like no tommarow. Why I would hazard to say the reason why counter strike is not popular is for the same exact reasons dust 514 is not that popular either. Which is taking one of these http://createyoursuccess.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/people_casual_clothes.jpg and turning them into one of these http://www.gamergirltay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Wild-Gamer2.jpg in 10 minutes. Ill come back and edit this in an hour when i can deal with responding to this much stupid. from the first link.... my gawd I swear you are meta gaming CCP to ruin DUST. IWS as bad as any feature in DUST EST he became CPM.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11486	Posted - 2013.12.31 17:51:00 - [93] - Quote DootDoot wrote: I'll come back and edit this in an hour when i can deal with responding to this much stupid. from the first link.... my gawd I swear you are meta gaming CCP to ruin DUST. IWS as bad as any feature in DUST EST he became CPM. So says the nerdy game boy who cannot take off his gamer glasses for 5 seconds and play scientist a short bit to understand what ticks and what doesn't. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 777	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:15:00 - [94] - Quote DootDoot wrote: my gawd I swear you are meta gaming CCP to ruin DUST. IWS as bad as any feature in DUST EST he became CPM. QFT If I wasn't traveling I'd chime in, but its almost pointless to argue with IWS... I don't think there is one conversation where he's actually represented "the community" or even been humble about it and I'm almost certain if CCP has been listening to him he's possibly the soul reason for Dusts defeat...
DootDoot Da Short Buss 149	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:20:00 - [95] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DootDoot wrote: I'll come back and edit this in an hour when i can deal with responding to this much stupid. from the first link.... my gawd I swear you are meta gaming CCP to ruin DUST. IWS as bad as any feature in DUST EST he became CPM. So says the nerdy game boy who cannot take off his gamer glasses for 5 seconds and play scientist a short bit to understand what ticks and what doesn't. Thanks needed the motivation to respond to this supposive community representative who has pushed for Aim Assist and Tank Buffs while pushing for AV nerfs at the same time, actively hurting DUST in the communities name in vast swoops, IWS EST CPM. Bethhy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Right now there is over 85k people just on the PC... and it's a consistent number.. http://steamcommunity.com/app/730 IWS can't really be trying to question the legitimacy of Counter-strike as a reference... and defend DUST... Eyes start to cry blood You've already been told.. Counter strike still kicks the crap out of your halo... always has through all of them 1-4 and will still be around when DUST is dead, however regrettable that thought is. The thought that Halo brought the "Cool Kids" to First person shooters is.... Seriously? really? when do we get another vote for CPM? You understand Heaton Example Was liek the staple for Counter-strike. I TRIED to find a cool Halo competition for players example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUmlpSVLj8 Halo isn't some game that brought "Cool" to gaming... like my gawd... must be cool in your world. full of magical ferries and big mushrooms everywhere? prancing deer and bunny's talking and all that? And Do your freaking research PLEASE if your gonna Done the "CPM" your mis-representing the community your supposedly representing... http://kotaku.com/5626214/what-do-game-developers-know-about-real-guns Many, many, many articles prove that all developers goto shooting ranges...... that want to create a true gun experience.. or care. At all. How does linking This Say anyting about a realistic example.. a paint ball range? Or what they are supposed to run around with real guns? You want them to just get exorcise or something? confusing Your part of the problem IWS and a huge part to blame for both the Aim Assist that has actively killed this community and the AV Efficacy reduction while simultaneously pushing Tank buffs.. Knowing what this community has been through with over tweaking. I ask you again, are you Meta gaming CCP for something they did?, And actively trying to kill DUST? I miss my friends who won't log back on and alot of the issues and thing's you have actively pushed and defended on these very forums while insulting the people that have come here to voice there opinions and causing a hostile reactional environment to your posting.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 777	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:22:00 - [96] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So tell me where does this have to do with: Gun ranges. or Valve Porting to Console control theory. Honestly there is no case you can bring up that explains the red chart and the relationship it has with blue chart. Its actually a pretty simple case, which is those two things on top of a mountain of other issues, you fail to acknowledge are contributing factors in any player activety graph.. Especially when they have been changed so drastically over the course of its lifespan.. Some features more then others contributing to the decline in players...
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1050	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:25:00 - [97] - Quote so, now that you own nothing you've decided to put your time into foolish forum posts? sounds like the last gasp of a dead alliance.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 613	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:36:00 - [98] - Quote low genius wrote: so, now that you own nothing you've decided to put your time into foolish forum posts? sounds like the last gasp of a dead alliance. this issue goes beyond owning districts... or sides of beefs or ones own spare time
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11487	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:44:00 - [99] - Quote DootDoot wrote: You've already been told.. Counter strike still kicks the crap out of your halo... always has through all of them 1-4 and will still be around when DUST is dead, however regrettable that thought is. The thought that Halo brought the "Cool Kids" to First person shooters is.... Seriously? really? when do we get another vote for CPM? You understand Heaton Example Was liek the staple for Counter-strike. I TRIED to find a cool Halo competition for players example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUmlpSVLj8 Halo isn't some game that brought "Cool" to gaming... like my gawd... must be cool in your world. full of magical ferries and big mushrooms everywhere? prancing deer and bunny's talking and all that? And Do you freaking research PLEASE if your gonna Done the "CPM" you mis-representing the community your supposedly representing... http://kotaku.com/5626214/what-do-game-developers-know-about-real-guns Many many many articles prove that all developers goto shooting ranges...... that want to create a true gun experience.. or care. At all. How does linking This Say anyting about a real life realistic example.. a paint ball range? Or what they are supposed to run around with real guns? You want them to just get exorcise or something? confusing Your part of the problem IWS and a huge part to blame for both the Aim Assist that has actively killed this community and the AV Efficacy reduction while simultaneously pushing Tank buffs.. Knowing what this community has been through with over tweaking. I ask you again, are you Meta gaming CCP for something they did?, And actively trying to kill DUST? I miss my friends who won't log back on and alot of the issues are for thing's you have actively pushed and defended on these very forums while insulting the people that have come here to voice there opinions and causing a hostile reactional environment to your posting. Yeah let's all talk about gamer preference all day long and get nowhere either as neither side will ever be convinced one other games is not a tragedy to the shooting gaming environment. And about me misrepresenting, you need to understand nearly all of the people I am representing do NOT want this game to play like halo, Counter Strike, fallout or any other goddamn shooter out there. They want Dust 514 to play like Dust 514 and they have told me the controls are not right still and I keep forwarding that message on many pain points from simple stupid controller unresponsiveness, intermittent AA performance on various clients, Double sensitivity reads, to just simple movement in the environment being horrifically bad from scaling hills, quick sand traps, and wall snags or higher than it looks railings, that list is exhaustively long and I have been relaying it whenever chances I do get concerning it. And back at you about research: This is not a paint ball range It is a tactical range. DARC Direct Action Resource Center They teach breaching, sweeping, and host of other situations that occur that would get you killed in real life like how to deal with a weapon jam on the spot. A normal gun range you sit there and fiddle with the gun to get the obstruction cleared. This range you clear it, you clear it quick, you clear it fast, you clear it safe, or you're labeled dead. Basically the difference between http://shop.sklz.com/accessories/quicksterr-qb-trainer-7-x-7/invt/qksqb01?gclid=CIr05cSO27sCFWMV7Aod4mkApw and http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh_impact/photo/gerard-poutier-c776d4a323399bc5.jpg Watching videos, playing it safe and controlled, and dumbed down life experiences are no excuse for those who nearly get or do get killed undramatically recreating scenes you enjoy in your games. Sadly Life is so poorly designed. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 702	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:45:00 - [100] - Quote dust... only 4-5k people playing it i dont think so... 4-5k playing at any point in time yes WOW certainly doesn't have 12mil people playing it at any point in time. eve has about 500k yet only 30-40k are active at a time if we assume everyone plays for an hour a day then that gives us about 92k-115k players daily (not accurate so dont quote me on these numbers) and not everyone plays daily. really the only ones here that can tell us the real numbers are ccp https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find

bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 780	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:46:00 - [101] - Quote low genius wrote: so, now that you own nothing you've decided to put your time into foolish forum posts? sounds like the last gasp of a dead alliance. Oh you must be talking about EON (which i dont represent in any form or fashion) yeah its been dead for awhile if you were ever able to compete on our lvl maybe you would already know this.. As far as me personally I haven't played Dust in going on two weeks but I'm still going to fight for something that I have invested two years into and I personally believe/trust in CCP to do the right thing..
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 780	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:47:00 - [102] - Quote Bethhy wrote: low genius wrote: so, now that you own nothing you've decided to put your time into foolish forum posts? sounds like the last gasp of a dead alliance. this issue goes beyond owning districts... or sides of beefs or ones own spare time
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11487	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:47:00 - [103] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: dust... only 4-5k people playing it i dont think so... 4-5k playing at any point in time yes WOW certainly doesn't have 12mil people playing it at any point in time. eve has about 500k yet only 30-40k are active at a time if we assume everyone plays for an hour a day then that gives us about 92k-115k players daily (not accurate so dont quote me on these numbers) and not everyone plays daily. really the only ones here that can tell us the real numbers are ccp Well at least the Steam Chart numbers for CS are like that of Dusts, api fed by the cycle so you have a snapshot of when-many players play throughout the week month year or day. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1453	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:56:00 - [104] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. You're ****, Trauma center level has nothing to with quality, it's a preparedness rating on the severity of injuries they are equipped to handle, and they are rated up to 5. You may have been right if you said there's no such thing as a level IV trauma center with an ICU. Well, I work in a level 1 trauma center, so whether or not the semantics of the word "quality" is correct is really besides the point. A level one trauma center takes care of the highest severity of illness and has the greatest resources, so you can call that whatever you want compared to a lower level. You got me on the 5 levels though, never really dealt with anything formally classified lower than a 3 directly. (Anyway, who cares, I was just in a sarcastic mood at the time, we should get back to important things like video game input devices!) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 614	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:58:00 - [105] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DootDoot wrote: You've already been told.. Counter strike still kicks the crap out of your halo... always has through all of them 1-4 and will still be around when DUST is dead, however regrettable that thought is. The thought that Halo brought the "Cool Kids" to First person shooters is.... Seriously? really? when do we get another vote for CPM? You understand Heaton Example Was liek the staple for Counter-strike. I TRIED to find a cool Halo competition for players example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUmlpSVLj8 Halo isn't some game that brought "Cool" to gaming... like my gawd... must be cool in your world. full of magical ferries and big mushrooms everywhere? prancing deer and bunny's talking and all that? And Do you freaking research PLEASE if your gonna Done the "CPM" you mis-representing the community your supposedly representing... http://kotaku.com/5626214/what-do-game-developers-know-about-real-guns Many many many articles prove that all developers goto shooting ranges...... that want to create a true gun experience.. or care. At all. How does linking This Say anyting about a real life realistic example.. a paint ball range? Or what they are supposed to run around with real guns? You want them to just get exorcise or something? confusing Your part of the problem IWS and a huge part to blame for both the Aim Assist that has actively killed this community and the AV Efficacy reduction while simultaneously pushing Tank buffs.. Knowing what this community has been through with over tweaking. I ask you again, are you Meta gaming CCP for something they did?, And actively trying to kill DUST? I miss my friends who won't log back on and alot of the issues are for thing's you have actively pushed and defended on these very forums while insulting the people that have come here to voice there opinions and causing a hostile reactional environment to your posting. Yeah let's all talk about gamer preference all day long and get nowhere either as neither side will ever be convinced one other games is not a tragedy to the shooting gaming environment. And about me misrepresenting, you need to understand nearly all of the people I am representing do NOT want this game to play like halo, Counter Strike, fallout or any other goddamn shooter out there. They want Dust 514 to play like Dust 514 and they have told me the controls are not right still and I keep forwarding that message on many pain points from simple stupid controller unresponsiveness, intermittent AA performance on various clients, Double sensitivity reads, to just simple movement in the environment being horrifically bad from scaling hills, quick sand traps, and wall snags or higher than it looks railings, that list is exhaustively long and I have been relaying it whenever chances I do get concerning it. . Someone got defensive quickly Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And back at you about research: This is not a paint ball range It is a tactical range. DARC Direct Action Resource Center They teach breaching, sweeping, and host of other situations that occur that would get you killed in real life like how to deal with a weapon jam on the spot. A normal gun range you sit there and fiddle with the gun to get the obstruction cleared. This range you clear it, you clear it quick, you clear it fast, you clear it safe, or you're labeled dead. Basically the difference between http://shop.sklz.com/accessories/quicksterr-qb-trainer-7-x-7/invt/qksqb01?gclid=CIr05cSO27sCFWMV7Aod4mkApw and http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh_impact/photo/gerard-poutier-c776d4a323399bc5.jpg Watching videos, playing it safe and controlled, and dumbed down life experiences are no excuse for those who nearly get or do get killed undramatically recreating scenes you enjoy in your games. Sadly Life is so poorly designed because he quoted me so nicely.... you quote a picture with cinderblocks in a mock building for tactics players would create regardless givin the tools in a game. he quoted an article of every major FPS game developer explaining their credentials with real world use of firearms. not real use of tactics in the real world and how that works in DUST. Lastly from my own personal view point DUST was DUST when everyone was aiming for themself. When DUST was about personal skill as much as the suit you where wearing at the time. People are moving to titles without aim assist, BF4 got bad reviews because it was so strong, CoD is a growing joke in the FPS community and has to re release a product nearly anually to stay relevant. DUST has been DUST without AA then it has with. And has been better at it. this is fact amoungst the consensus. i just wished you represented it.
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1449	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:59:00 - [106] - Quote You play FPS on a rig? KB/M You play on console? controller. Reason why KZ3 had that whole uprising and forced KZ4 to never integrate move in. And KZ has NO AIM ASSITS. But I'm sure KZ players already know this. You don't mix the two. And their is a reason tho why AA is on, if you do mix the two. As a FPS player both RIG and Console, you can't tell me any controller can compete (with out AA) with a mouse. Come on! Who you kidding? LOL Doesn't mean a bad FPS rig player will beat a seasoned console fps player. But when you put two season FPS players on then it really shows. it's what happened with the move.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 19:00:00 - [107] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. You're ******, Trauma center level has nothing to with quality, it's a preparedness rating on the severity of injuries they are equipped to handle, and they are rated up to 5. You may have been right if you said there's no such thing as a level IV trauma center with an ICU. Well, I work in a level 1 trauma center, so whether or not the semantics of the word "quality" is correct is really besides the point. A level one trauma center takes care of the highest severity of illness and has the greatest resources, so you can call that whatever you want compared to a lower level. You got me on the 5 levels though, never really dealt with anything formally classified lower than a 3 directly. (Anyway, who cares, I was just in a sarcastic mood at the time, we should get back to important things like video game input devices!) Interesting, we didn't get into trauma centers in sociology of disasters though the whole medical side was lightly touched on the entire course. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
DootDoot Da Short Buss 155	Posted - 2013.12.31 19:07:00 - [108] - Quote Surt gods end wrote: You play FPS on a rig? KB/M You play on console? controller. Reason why KZ3 had that whole uprising and forced KZ4 to never integrate move in. And KZ has NO AIM ASSITS. But I'm sure KZ players already know this. You don't mix the two. And their is a reason tho why AA is on, if you do mix the two. As a FPS player both RIG and Console, you can't tell me any controller can compete (with out AA) with a mouse. Come on! Who you kidding? LOL Doesn't mean a bad FPS rig player will beat a seasoned console fps player. But when you put two season FPS players on then it really shows. it's what happened with the move. Welcome to Dust. Where DS3 users have been on top of the KD/R and Leaderboards in general with no AA versus KB/M since Closed Beta. If Dust was a cross platform game where someone had a computer with the latest hardware, 0 input delay and was an actual mouse not and Overlay of a DS3 then yes the M/Kb would be superior at least IMO. This has never been the case in DUST ever. And Mainly is like FOX News reporting half truths about science after reporting on a deer getting stuck in a frozen lake.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 19:07:00 - [109] - Quote Bethhy wrote: because he quoted me so nicely.... you quote a picture with cinderblocks in a mock building for tactics players would create regardless givin the tools in a game. he quoted an article of every major FPS game developer explaining their credentials with real world use of firearms. not real use of tactics in the real world and how that works in DUST. Lastly from my own personal view point DUST was DUST when everyone was aiming for themself. When DUST was about personal skill as much as the suit you where wearing at the time. People are moving to titles without aim assist, BF4 got bad reviews because it was so strong, CoD is a growing joke in the FPS community and has to re release a product nearly anually to stay relevant. DUST has been DUST longer without AA then it has with. And has been better at it. this is fact amoungst the consensus. i just wished you represented it. I discounted the article on the grounds most gun games don't do anything close to reality and how guns in most video games are not simulations and are more akin to cartoons. Of course we know how unfun true realism is in most games. Though I do give props to the games that are trying to reach that thresh-hold. BF4 got bad reviews for everything. Including graphics, sound, controls, and online connectivity. Aim assist was barely a mention. CoD while a joke to you still rakes in stupid amounts of money to blow billions a year on commercials alone and is forcing Battlefield to try to compete. Either way it seems Mirrors Edge 2 may get canceled >< with this self lawsuit moving forward. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1453	Posted - 2013.12.31 19:12:00 - [110] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. You're ****, Trauma center level has nothing to with quality, it's a preparedness rating on the severity of injuries they are equipped to handle, and they are rated up to 5. You may have been right if you said there's no such thing as a level IV trauma center with an ICU. Well, I work in a level 1 trauma center, so whether or not the semantics of the word "quality" is correct is really besides the point. A level one trauma center takes care of the highest severity of illness and has the greatest resources, so you can call that whatever you want compared to a lower level. You got me on the 5 levels though, never really dealt with anything formally classified lower than a 3 directly. (Anyway, who cares, I was just in a sarcastic mood at the time, we should get back to important things like video game input devices!) Interesting, we didn't get into trauma centers in sociology of disasters though the whole medical side was lightly touched on the entire course. The big picture of certification of different levels of trauma centers is an interesting and complicated thing, often driven as much by the financial concerns of for-profit hospitals as it is by medical necessity, unfortunately. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!

pseudosnipre 430	Posted - 2013.12.31 21:20:00 - [111] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter... ...quickest reflexes nullifies any fun... Congrats on ridding yourself of that last shed of credibility before new year's! Today is the sort of day where the sun only comes up to humiliate you.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 22:25:00 - [112] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter... ...quickest reflexes nullifies any fun... Congrats on ridding yourself of that last shed of credibility before new year's! You're talking to the same guy that Regards Star Craft II multiplayer as horrifically terrible as well (single player was amazing). If you can figure out why I dislike the game so much then you too can understand why I find such a large number of multiplayer games boring. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 22:32:00 - [113] - Quote pseudosnipre wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter... ...quickest reflexes nullifies any fun... Congrats on ridding yourself of that last shed of credibility before new year's! You're talking to the same guy that regards Star Craft II multiplayer as terrible. (single player was amazing). If you can figure out why I dislike the game so much then you too can understand why I find such a large number of multiplayer games intellectually boring. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 787	Posted - 2013.12.31 22:52:00 - [114] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter... ...quickest reflexes nullifies any fun... Congrats on ridding yourself of that last shed of credibility before new year's! On top of this based on estimates from Sony. Counter Strike across all 5 of its games (not 1 not 2 not 3 or 4 but FIVE GAMES) combined take up appox only 0.2% (and this is being nice but its probably closer to 0.09% or much lesser) of the entire potential market. That means 99.8% of gamers in the world don't bother with counter strike. And yet still.... A higher percentage of gamers then those paying attention to Dust..... Edit: Please don't think I'm agreeing with you just showimg you how completely ignorant your perspectve on either playerbase is...
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 326	Posted - 2013.12.31 22:57:00 - [115] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter... ...quickest reflexes nullifies any fun... Congrats on ridding yourself of that last shed of credibility before new year's! You're talking to the same guy that Regards Star Craft II multiplayer as horrifically terrible as well (single player was amazing). If you can figure out why I dislike the game so much then you too can understand why I find such a large number of multiplayer games boring. Haha, Scrub. Jk SC2 multiplayer is awesome, if you are into RTS. I played warcraft 1, 2, 3 - Starcraft 1 and 2. Multiplayer has always been great. Most people I know, that have tried starcraft, hated multiplayer. Wanna know why, BECAUSE IT IS HARD. Imagine dust without aim assist. Takes skill, planning, scouting, and some ultra fast pin point clicking to beat a good opponent. Love starcraft, great multiplayer. Nuff Said
TunRa Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 303	Posted - 2013.12.31 22:58:00 - [116] - Quote According to eveoffline we have been staying at 3K players for awhile, remind me how dust is dead? Thanks CCP Foxfour
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 787	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:02:00 - [117] - Quote TunRa wrote: According to eveoffline we have been staying at 3K players for awhile, remind me how dust is dead? So all you took from this entire thread is "Dust is dead" ?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:05:00 - [118] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: pseudosnipre wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Also counter strike? :P horrible shooter... ...quickest reflexes nullifies any fun... Congrats on ridding yourself of that last shed of credibility before new year's! You're talking to the same guy that Regards Star Craft II multiplayer as horrifically terrible as well (single player was amazing). If you can figure out why I dislike the game so much then you too can understand why I find such a large number of multiplayer games boring. Haha, Scrub. Jk SC2 multiplayer is awesome, if you are into RTS. I played warcraft 1, 2, 3 - Starcraft 1 and 2. Multiplayer has always been great. Most people I know, that have tried starcraft, hated multiplayer. Wanna know why, BECAUSE IT IS HARD. Imagine dust without aim assist. Takes skill, planning, scouting, and some ultra fast pin point clicking to beat a good opponent. Love starcraft, great multiplayer. I wouldn't say it was hard, I got to gold solo league at least where intellect of skill planning scouting begins to fail and falter in front of 300 apm players, I do enjoy bronze and silver leagues because you get to see plenty of strategies that are beyond unavailable for the high apm games. I max out around 90 apm and am considerably slow in terms of playing the actual game. As for shooters I score top 3 half of the time on blacklight retribution and usually its first shoot or first die there. I would almost venture CS has a slightly higher ttk (by a hair) but the windows of engagement are extensively much wider than CS meaning you can get killed more and quite more often in Blacklight than in CS (which does mostly the round by round one life per round game last time I played it) CS just lacks any semblance of useful tactics or any type of reward for intelligent play and always rewards the fastest guy on the scene. Maybe the reason why people enjoy that game is the apparent lack of campers. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
TunRa Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 303	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:08:00 - [119] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: TunRa wrote: According to eveoffline we have been staying at 3K players for awhile, remind me how dust is dead? So all you took from this entire thread is "Dust is dead" ? To be honest I really just read the OP, but from that it sounded like another dust is dead/dying thread yes. Thanks CCP Foxfour
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1930	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:15:00 - [120] - Quote just get rid of Input lag on KB/M there you go. it would imporve the KB/M guys performance and would get rid of some issues. A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:17:00 - [121] - Quote Killar-12 wrote: just get rid of Input lag on KB/M there you go. it would imporve the KB/M guys performance and would get rid of some issues. agreed. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 787	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:26:00 - [122] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Killar-12 wrote: just get rid of Input lag on KB/M there you go. it would imporve the KB/M guys performance and would get rid of some issues. agreed. I agree if we're assuming its input lag I really think its something more program releated via emulation of DS3 in the name of balancing. Just look at turning turrets, stationary or tank with a mouse its not acting like a mouse its acting like a controller with the programmed de-acceleration. . Or look at your equipment select wheel its not selecting properly because its acting like a joystick. . It's been like that since the beginning of Uprising tank turrets and equipment select did not so this in chromosome..
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11488	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:38:00 - [123] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Killar-12 wrote: just get rid of Input lag on KB/M there you go. it would imporve the KB/M guys performance and would get rid of some issues. agreed. I agree if we're assuming thats all the cause, I really think its something more program releated via emulation of DS3 in the name of balancing. Just look at turning turrets, stationary or tank with a mouse its not acting like a mouse its acting like a controller with the programmed de-acceleration/deadzone. . Or look at your equipment select wheel its not selecting properly because its acting like a joystick. . It's been like that since the beginning of Uprising tank turrets and equipment select did not do this in chromosome.. There are other factors as well, just if that list of just plain control problems where cut down by half or all we might see a notable difference in our enjoyment of the game, all of these issues need addressing. Hell having the damn squad command stuck on while in a vheicle is annoying enough as it is. When a game has very good controls it rarely gets complimented for it, when a game has bad controls its first and foremost lauded of. As we do have complaints of the controls we're not in the clear yet. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1456	Posted - 2013.12.31 23:49:00 - [124] - Quote Killzone Shadowfall has no aim assist and wouldn't need it even if there were mouse support as well. Aim assist isn't needed, or at least not as much as there is in Dust at the moment. Something very minor to keep very bad players at a reasonable level would be ok, but aim assist should never be implemented so that bad players have a chance to be just as good as the good players. Of course KZ:SF is on the PS4 with the DS4 that is much better than the DS3, so that would probably make it easier to not do any aim assist. Dust is still stuck on the PS3 and will be for quite some time. Guerrilla Games is of course also a solid company, which means KZ:SF is well balanced and well done in general, and you just can't quite say the same about CCP/Dust. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers!
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 930	Posted - 2014.01.01 00:27:00 - [125] - Quote I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to the OP but here goes. the player base has been "4k and falling" since I got here, somehow we never make it to 3k and falling this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. EvE is 10 years old, WoW is 12 years old, aion is 4 years old, runescape is 12 years old. Dust 514 is 7/8 months old depending on the time this post is read(happy new year new eden!)... why would Dust have a player count comparable to games that have years of development and expansions behind them when it isn't even a year old? sll in all your argument is, well I'm not sure what it is or where you thought it was going, but it isn't well put together or relevant. so yay you? "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 618	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:42:00 - [126] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to the OP but here goes. the player base has been "4k and falling" since I got here, somehow we never make it to 3k and falling this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. EvE is 10 years old, WoW is 12 years old, aion is 4 years old, runescape is 12 years old. Dust 514 is 7/8 months old depending on the time this post is read(happy new year new eden!)... why would Dust have a player count comparable to games that have years of development and expansions behind them when it isn't even a year old? sll in all your argument is, well I'm not sure what it is or where you thought it was going, but it isn't well put together or relevant. so yay you? Ok so your a closed beta vet and "the player base has been 4k and falling since you got here?" i remember over 12k player peaks in chromosome a time when there was no aim assist or poor KB/M support.. "this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50." So what is top 50? because as has been said on multiple accounts most people can name DUST's Aim assist fromt he 1.4 patch as the top 10 big reasons on why they dont play it... let alone what "annoys them" "I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room." I hate to say it but none of the console shooters here ever needed aim assist nor has any FPS game. to me, this, pretty much sums up this thread. DootDoot wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign.. I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0, pretty much told them what kind of developers CCP is.... No matter how i defend CCP to them... it's hard to get around that point.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 619	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:59:00 - [127] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CS just lacks any semblance of useful tactics or any type of reward for intelligent play and always rewards the fastest guy on the scene. Maybe the reason why people enjoy that game is the apparent lack of campers. http://www.geek.com/games/half-life-counterstrike-trains-british-troops-549192/ ??????????????? http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/6262328.html sheesh people must get tired having to do your research for you all the time. Edit* Oh and we did call it Camper-Strike a fair bit..
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11491	Posted - 2014.01.01 04:11:00 - [128] - Quote Bethhy wrote: knight of 6 wrote: I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to the OP but here goes. the player base has been "4k and falling" since I got here, somehow we never make it to 3k and falling this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. EvE is 10 years old, WoW is 12 years old, aion is 4 years old, runescape is 12 years old. Dust 514 is 7/8 months old depending on the time this post is read(happy new year new eden!)... why would Dust have a player count comparable to games that have years of development and expansions behind them when it isn't even a year old? sll in all your argument is, well I'm not sure what it is or where you thought it was going, but it isn't well put together or relevant. so yay you? Ok so your a closed beta vet and "the player base has been 4k and falling since you got here?" i remember over 12k player peaks in chromosome a time when there was no aim assist or poor KB/M support.. "this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50." So what is top 50? because as has been said on multiple accounts most people can name DUST's Aim assist fromt he 1.4 patch as the top 10 big reasons on why they dont play it... let alone what "annoys them" "I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room." I hate to say it but none of the console shooters here ever needed aim assist nor has any FPS game. to me, this, pretty much sums up this thread. DootDoot wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign.. I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0, pretty much told them what kind of developers CCP is.... No matter how i defend CCP to them... it's hard to get around that point. we never had 12k We never had 9k. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 620	Posted - 2014.01.01 04:17:00 - [129] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight of 6 wrote: I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to the OP but here goes. the player base has been "4k and falling" since I got here, somehow we never make it to 3k and falling this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. EvE is 10 years old, WoW is 12 years old, aion is 4 years old, runescape is 12 years old. Dust 514 is 7/8 months old depending on the time this post is read(happy new year new eden!)... why would Dust have a player count comparable to games that have years of development and expansions behind them when it isn't even a year old? sll in all your argument is, well I'm not sure what it is or where you thought it was going, but it isn't well put together or relevant. so yay you? Ok so your a closed beta vet and "the player base has been 4k and falling since you got here?" i remember over 12k player peaks in chromosome a time when there was no aim assist or poor KB/M support.. "this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50." So what is top 50? because as has been said on multiple accounts most people can name DUST's Aim assist fromt he 1.4 patch as the top 10 big reasons on why they dont play it... let alone what "annoys them" "I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room." I hate to say it but none of the console shooters here ever needed aim assist nor has any FPS game. to me, this, pretty much sums up this thread. DootDoot wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign.. I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0, pretty much told them what kind of developers CCP is.... No matter how i defend CCP to them... it's hard to get around that point. we never had 12k We never had 9k. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX942zT6iLE Whats that famous EVE video "I Was There?" People where there you can't pretend it away.
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 395	Posted - 2014.01.01 05:18:00 - [130] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. No. Screw that. They promoted KBM support as a feature and for a little while they had it working well (Chromosome) and barely anyone bitched about DS3 vs KBM. They need to just fix it so both are working properly. Then add fully customizable KBM and DS3. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole

bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 791	Posted - 2014.01.01 05:19:00 - [131] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. 1st: If you read my other responses, I've posted multiple times that KB/M was not the soul purpose of Dust's low player count.. BUT, IF A CONSOLE SHOOTER PROMISES PLAYERS KB/M SUPPORT, You can betcha there are going to be players dropping when that supposed kb/m support gets nerfed into the ground and just like Bethhy said it's the control scheme in general that many (Not all) have exited on.. 2nd: In fact you WOULD NOT get laughed out of the room because in fact PC players in-brace multiple control inputs and in fact Steam has/is pioneering the CONTROLLER front on PC Ie Steam Box, Steam Control, Steam Big Picture Which is designed with the couch and controller player in mind.. Not to mention the multiple Apps on PC designed to make a controller usable with almost any game on the market ** just the other day I was able to plug and config my PS3 controller to let me son ** some Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on the PC... So please quit spitting out nonsense and educate yourself a bit..
FAKIR REDETTa 0uter.Heaven 80	Posted - 2014.01.01 05:32:00 - [132] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: All i can say at this point is that the new EP stressed FPS fundamentals and 1.8 is the infantry patch. Furthermore CCP has stated explicitly that our current point in DUST's development is focused on improving CORE systems. The only reference i can find where CCP explicitly addresses aiming for kb/m or DS3 is from CCP Remnant in the 'Advancing the Core' presentation, and there smooth aiming is referenced in the context of aim assist. Does CCP really think that their unassisted DS3 aiming and their kb/m aiming is good enough? You can polish a turd as much as you want but in the end it's still a Turd... if u can polish a turd to be as shining like gold glittering to sunshine then the turd is worth something special to sell it to ebay for millons buck.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11491	Posted - 2014.01.01 06:18:00 - [133] - Quote The trailer for "I was there" was a dramatised up version of an actual battle tactic that had been phased. Similar to the dominion trailer and the upcomming eve true stories from dark horse comics. We never had 12k dust players. Api erroniuosly reported 9k players. If you had proper memory or norm was 6k. Turd polishing had been placed upon eve since day one. People still insist the game is a turd. Dust 514 is by far not perfect but CCP is willing to continue to fix it. Any other game corp would have dropped it by now. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail Turret =// Unlocked
TcuBe3 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 309	Posted - 2014.01.01 07:30:00 - [134] - Quote Ill add this about CS. It was no gem in the mod years, early 2000's but the mod team did do a good job of producing a quality game throughout its life cycle. I enjoyed it a lot. It wasn't until it became a standalone and the masses swarmed on it that the game started to suck ass. Those days are over, modding on the PC although not dead is highly frowned upon by most developers now a days. I don't know what CCP's intent is with Dust but I don't think it has anything to do with making a quality product. CCP Fanboys remind me of the Heaven's Gate cult. "DON'T DRINK THE COOL AID PEOPLE!"
M McManus 376	Posted - 2014.01.21 14:38:00 - [135] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: CCP You were almost the first game to fully accomplish this (somewhere around Chromosome) but failed with the release of Uprising when you alienated the mouse and keyboard gamers. With the massive amount of players on PC, It reminds me of and old saying 'you're steeping over a quarter to pick up a nickle.. ' Wow just seen this post, well said! Goes to show how bad CCP has failed to balance the inputs I wonder how many people have quit or not picked dust because of the horrible kb/m controls.
Atheor Sindromer Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 21	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:22:00 - [136] - Quote Dust 514 is a First Person Shooter. All the games you listed aren't First Person Shooters. How can you even compare these numbers? Even the newest Call of Duty games have around 100k users daily. Dust 514 retaining at least 4%-5% of users playing CoD is pretty impressive since the game practically isn't even out of the Beta. Love the sinner, hate the Sindromer.
bolsh lee Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 883	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:54:00 - [137] - Quote Atheor Sindromer wrote: Dust 514 is a First Person Shooter. All the games you listed aren't First Person Shooters. How can you even compare these numbers? Even the newest Call of Duty games have around 100k users daily. Dust 514 retaining at least 4%-5% of users playing CoD is pretty impressive since the game practically isn't even out of the Beta. If you read any of my post its simply comparing the amount of PC gamers concurrently playing... An audience CCP could easily reach by properly supporting kb/m, an input which they promoted from day one.. Its a pretty naive assumption for you to think people who play and pay monthly for MMO's don't play FPS games... ? FYI, CCP just celebrated Dusts 514's 1 year birthday of "being out of beta" ...
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 577	Posted - 2014.01.21 17:57:00 - [138] - Quote 4-5K is NOT the player base, that is how many people are logged in at one time on average. Not everyone logs in everyday nor does anyone (I hope) play for 23 hours per day


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