DUST Search - Valve vs CCP on console shooters

Roman FourFingers wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Roman FourFingers wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level.

Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ******* play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE.

you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ?

so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ...

Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant.

They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue.

people like you are the reason this game is dead and gone ...


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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 810	Posted - 2013.12.23 15:47:00 - [1] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. Agreed. This is a massive oversimplification of the problems here tailored to his own individual (sorry... "soul') experience and bias. If they went to raw KBM tomorrow, you would not get some massive influx of competitive PC FPS players who have just been itching for this to happen. Same with the MMO crowd. You certainly could also alienate as many non-KBM players who would suddenly get super ***d off about getting killed by people pulling things the DS3 just wont let them do with pinpoint aiming, macros, etc. (I'll stop you right there b4 the inevitable "They can use KBM too". Well, you can damn well use a DS3 too then can't you?) PvE would have 10x the effect on player counts that improving KBM would. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 810	Posted - 2013.12.23 16:37:00 - [2] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: Could it be that Chromosome was new... shiny... Eve players were excited (Well a few of them anyway). Why in the world would you connect the higher numbers of Chromosome with mouse and keyboard? Balance was better across the board. The new to veteran player gap was smaller. Every player wasn't sitting on a pile isk. Only the best players could continuously run Proto gear in pubs. Now everyone can Proto all day if they had a decent amount of salvage pre-uprising. I was very new when uprising hit and I went from 12 million isk to 83 million isk. The balance of the game was destroyed by massive isk influx, multiple SP respecs, and higher SP sinks. Add to that a playerbase (like me) that has become jaded. Keyboard and mouse factors in there somewhere. But, it is an infinitesimally small thing compared to the balancing, polish, and content issues that plague Dust. ^^^ this is also my answer. Tying bigger numbers in chromosome to the raw KBM as opposed to the massive gear/ISK disparity between noobs and vets, the fact that it was "new", and the whole bittervet phenomenon is confusing association and causality. (btw, people will obviously QQ about anything that kills them, so hatemails don't really support or refute anyone's argument, the inherent superiority of KBM in general is not really in question otherwise PC gamers would all use gamepads of some kind.) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 813	Posted - 2013.12.23 17:52:00 - [3] - Quote TcuBe3 wrote: If you are trying to point out that the OP's numbers are over exaggerated, yeah they are. But his point is still valid and relevant. THE GAMES PLAYER BASE IS DYING! I don't dispute that last part. The playerbase is hurting, I don't think even IWS is trying to really say that's not true. However, that "only 4000 people play this game" number is thrown around all the time and it's total BS. But I digress. The OP's point is relevant, no question, because something certainly needs to be done. The validity is a little more iffy. I really don't think it's that crazy that I see this as using a known problem (low player count) to advance a certain agenda. One I do not agree with. The OP has his opinion, I have mine, you have yours, and yes even IWS is entitled to his. I think the connection being made here is not a causal one, and my personal opinion is that there are more and bigger reasons for the drop in player counts. I also don't think there would be any significant bump in the playerbase or overall satisfaction with the game. I could easily be wrong about that last part, but there is little doubt in my mind that the implementation of KBM input is not responsible for even 10% of the playerbase problem. And the fact that some friends of his who use KBM stopped playing right away, citing that as a reason, is scant evidence to the contrary, because you are making one very crucial assumption: If they were happy with the control scheme, they would have no other issues with the game and become long-term players like the rest of us. That's a huge leap: 1) Hardcore PC FPS players: Would quickly see this is not a AAA shooter. If the lolmechanics and ROFLag didn't make them roll their eyes and go back to COD or whatever, they might not like the fact that they have to take their lumps for a while and grind to get better gear before really becoming competitive because their l33t skillz should make them instantly relevant in every game. 2) MMO players: Time dilation is nothing new to EvE and presumably WOW, and they are all about grinding for better sh!t, but without PvE as a safe haven they wouldn't know what to do with their prof 5 in animal mobs. All I'm saying is that KBM is like a "special interest group", and this is lobbying for it. Cure the disease, not one symptom. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 822	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:10:00 - [4] - Quote Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 823	Posted - 2013.12.24 03:50:00 - [5] - Quote Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ... Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant. They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 823	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:03:00 - [6] - Quote Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Roman FourFingers wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ? so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ... Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant. They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue. people like you are the reason this game is dead and gone ... Lol. Still haven't made any counter points. Don't worry though, I'm not going to bother checking this thread to see if you do. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 824	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:35:00 - [7] - Quote bolsh lee wrote: In all do respect he has a point, EVE Online can't pay for this game forever and you mentioned Core and PvE will increase player base, well unless they have PvE just sitting in a box somewhere ready to push the button on it, its gonna take some time.. Time=Man power = Money Its taken CCP 7 months now to roll out "Server Stability" patches every month, come on now ? What fixes have they done to the core in the last 7months.. ? PC Lag has rolled over to FW, TTK has gotten seemingly shooter with every patch and the only fix in Diversity has been an improved HMG which shouldn't of been broken in the first place... ? The controls, Mechanics and Core is all broken and has been broken for months on in, his points valid maybe CCP just doesn't have the funding or the man power to really bring the updates needed.. +1. Thank you for making a salient point in a reasonable fashion. You may be right, maybe CCP is cutting their losses and pulling out, If so, and CCP really has moved to a skeleton crew and can't put the necessary manpower into finishing the core content and PvE, then let's be brutally honest, the game is doomed no matter what. Personally, I don't think that's the case, I mean, why would they hire the new chief if they were going to simultaneously gut his staff? I'd also call 2 new weapons more diversity compared to the HMG. Admittedly it's little more than a step in the right directions, but a positive step nonetheless. I also don't really agree that they have done nothing to fix the core in the last 6 months. Hit detection is substantially better. Should that have been done months ago? Yes. Still, it is something they've made excellent strides on lately. Let's cut to the chase here. Nobody reasonable or unbiased thinks that Dust is a healthy or successful game right now. All I'm saying is that anyone who suggests that KBM support alone is going to "save" Dust or is somehow the key to doing so is just a touch myopic. It also doesn't do anything to address the core mechanics or missing core content. I'd argue that if they do have limited resources as you suggest, that's what they need to spend their time on! Like i said before, just because KBM works doesn't mean a hardcore FPS player is suddenly going to think this is a great game! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1453	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:56:00 - [8] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. You're ****, Trauma center level has nothing to with quality, it's a preparedness rating on the severity of injuries they are equipped to handle, and they are rated up to 5. You may have been right if you said there's no such thing as a level IV trauma center with an ICU. Well, I work in a level 1 trauma center, so whether or not the semantics of the word "quality" is correct is really besides the point. A level one trauma center takes care of the highest severity of illness and has the greatest resources, so you can call that whatever you want compared to a lower level. You got me on the 5 levels though, never really dealt with anything formally classified lower than a 3 directly. (Anyway, who cares, I was just in a sarcastic mood at the time, we should get back to important things like video game input devices!) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1453	Posted - 2013.12.31 19:12:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level. Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ***** play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE. You're ****, Trauma center level has nothing to with quality, it's a preparedness rating on the severity of injuries they are equipped to handle, and they are rated up to 5. You may have been right if you said there's no such thing as a level IV trauma center with an ICU. Well, I work in a level 1 trauma center, so whether or not the semantics of the word "quality" is correct is really besides the point. A level one trauma center takes care of the highest severity of illness and has the greatest resources, so you can call that whatever you want compared to a lower level. You got me on the 5 levels though, never really dealt with anything formally classified lower than a 3 directly. (Anyway, who cares, I was just in a sarcastic mood at the time, we should get back to important things like video game input devices!) Interesting, we didn't get into trauma centers in sociology of disasters though the whole medical side was lightly touched on the entire course. The big picture of certification of different levels of trauma centers is an interesting and complicated thing, often driven as much by the financial concerns of for-profit hospitals as it is by medical necessity, unfortunately. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"** -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!