OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls.

As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly.

In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here.

You know if it wasn't for us PC players EVE would have not survived to begin with. DUST would have not been created out of that and I dont know the exact numbers but I imagine a lot of the current player base COME from the PC EVE online game. So dont slate us.

CCP should have made DUST for PC end of story.
The PS3 limits this game in so many ways. In 2015 Sony will stop supporting PS3 online I think? (I could be wrong) so yea I still think bringing dust to PC is the way forwards.

Damn, the PS3 can barely run this game! Certainly not at any sort of decent frame rate 50% of the time! (This doesn't stop the game from being fun sometimes however, I just wish it was on PC)

"We think that if you're really good with the controller, and you can match the fidelity of movement of the mouse and keyboard, then you'll hold your own. If not, well, you'll just be matched with people who play like you," Faliszek said, adding that PS3 players can also use a mouse and keyboard if they choose.

Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level.

Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ******* play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE.

you are apparently very naive and or young to think anything is going to happen without this game making a income,, or is your mom going to give CCP a monthly allowance ?

so instead of just blurting out and throwing up on this forum like you just had a labotomy please do tell us where they will get income from ...

Whatever you say, dude, Save the ad hominen argument, It's the last refuge of the weak. You know nothing about me, don't presume that you do. More importantly, it's also completely irrelevant.

They get the income by making the game better, not by catering to entitled PC gamers who can't bring themselves to play a console game with a console controller. I'm sure it's a hard concept to understand for the typical neck beard, but bowing to your individual preference might not actually be the most effective method. Keep complaining about your hardship though, maybe someone else will care and give you a tissue.

As for the Longevity thing; Riddle me this, what did mordern warfare 1 players do once they hit rank 60? What did IF do to address that for Modern Warfare 2? Then once more in 3?

I know there are pain points but from what I have seen as a CPM makes me feel stupid on what they really are causing the bad 'churn rates' and it will really be up to CCP to fix them. I can advise them on how to go about fixing it but its all in the ether and formless and most scary of all there is no goddamn way to know what works and what does not until its live.

New Content on eve has for the longest time been viewed as newbie bait but we know in dust 514 its not the case its veteran bait mostly. I would like to see it tipped so that it does turn into newbie bait instead but Dust 514 is far from it. There is also the long time mistake eve has done which was regard quality of life fixes as 'useless' in acquiring newbies. The CSM hammered it home into CCPs heads that quality of life fixes are good to do as well as it is more veteran bait to keep the most loyal of players around.

Right now we know the effects of new content in dust will do for the current players we know that it will keep most folks already playing. Problems to address are large a numerous including acquiring newbies, keeping newbies, and turning newbies into something that isn't a newbie. This is after all a free to play game. A free to play game that cannot have a good retention rate beyond one day is not going to do well as it decreases the chances of that player from ever making a purchase.

The numbers dont lie of course they don't (often the server is still subject to API errors, ie we never had 9k players cocurrent for example)

Just people don't read them right.

people like you are the reason this game is dead and gone ...

Lol. Still haven't made any counter points. Don't worry though, I'm not going to bother checking this thread to see if you do.

In all do respect he has a point, EVE Online can't pay for this game forever and you mentioned Core and PvE will increase player base, well unless they have PvE just sitting in a box somewhere ready to push the button on it, its gonna take some time.. Time=Man power = Money Its taken CCP 7 months now to roll out "Server Stability" patches every month, come on now ?

What fixes have they done to the core in the last 7months.. ? PC Lag has rolled over to FW, TTK has gotten seemingly shooter with every patch and the only fix in Diversity has been an improved HMG which shouldn't of been broken in the first place... ?

The controls, Mechanics and Core is all broken and has been broken for months on in, his points valid maybe CCP just doesn't have the funding or the man power to really bring the updates needed..

Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls.

After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that.

But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now.

Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements..

Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority ..

You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad..

Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign..

Meh. All competitively spirited console controller players would not like that "mild AA". At the core of it KDR does not matter if you did not earn it fair and square.

Dual inputs was one of the major foundation mistakes of this game. The only way to fix it imo would be to have an option to play only against controller players if a controller player chooses so. For example, make it possible that some battles are only accessible if you are playing controller with AA off. This kind of set up in a dual input game I could live with.

+1. Good suggestion.

I like it a lot because peeps who were looking to play the game at it's highest levels would know that they'd need to practice in the lower tiers with AA off to even have a hope of doing well at the top end. And most importantly, the choice rests with the player.

For peeps looking to transition as smoothly as possible, an Aim Assist 'slider' control might be welcome.

The fear is ofc that peeps would go the route of risk-aversion/short-term gain and hence exclude themselves from higher level gameplay. That would be ok - if we could hit 20,000 concurrent players.

Eve Online broke the 500k barrier not to long ago.

Not to be picky, well, ok, totally to be picky, but there's no such thing a as a level 4 trauma center. If there was, it would be crap b/c a level 1 trauma center is the highest level.

Second. You're the one not seeing the forest for the trees. To suggest that KBM support will single handedly save Dust is preposterous. You want to play a PC FPS? Then go ******* play one. The rest of us will continue to press on the real issues like core content and PVE.

Your points are becoming quite silly and illogical.

Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character?

I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between.

Thats what needs to be fixed.

Knowing our own numbers is not going to fix dust 514 either. The only thing it does it tells us we have a problem, a problem I know when and where we lose our players to which nearly majority of the community is getting entirely wrong as to when we lose our players.


In my opinion going to the gun range (to which I hate to say it but CCP doesn't have access to such things locally at most of its studios) is not useful.

Researching into why and how Halo changed the concept of gaming would be far more useful.

Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is.

Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users.

Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is.

Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users.

Nah, thats not the case, many in the academy are DUST players doing the same thing I am, try it you'll see.