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DootDoot
Da Short Buss
138
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Posted - 2013.12.24 05:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
bolsh lee wrote:Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign..
I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0. |
DootDoot
Da Short Buss
143
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Posted - 2013.12.31 06:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Vrain Matari wrote:Just said this in another theread but i luuuv to repeat myself ;) - the first priority for CCP, given that they wanted to be the ones to try and integrate the input types when other reputable developers had failed, would be to have rock-solid high quality controls.
After that if some mild AA was needed then fine, i'm sure we could all have lived with that.
But slapping an over-helpful AA on top of poor DS3 controls so it can 'compete' with poor kb/m controls? What is that? And who was it intended to satisfy? DUST will continue to have a credibility issue with FPS fans so long as we have the controls we have now. Meh. All competitively spirited console controller players would not like that "mild AA". At the core of it KDR does not matter if you did not earn it fair and square. Dual inputs was one of the major foundation mistakes of this game. The only way to fix it imo would be to have an option to play only against controller players if a controller player chooses so. For example, make it possible that some battles are only accessible if you are playing controller with AA off. This kind of set up in a dual input game I could live with. +1. Good suggestion. I like it a lot because peeps who were looking to play the game at it's highest levels would know that they'd need to practice in the lower tiers with AA off to even have a hope of doing well at the top end. And most importantly, the choice rests with the player. For peeps looking to transition as smoothly as possible, an Aim Assist 'slider' control might be welcome. The fear is ofc that peeps would go the route of risk-aversion/short-term gain and hence exclude themselves from higher level gameplay. That would be ok - if we could hit 20,000 concurrent players.
Still forgetting the fact that no DS3 user in Chromosome ever needed an active Aim Assist to dominate the Leaderboards.
Most people base their assumptions on some bogus study Microsoft did about "Cross platforming" Unreal tournament and Gears Of War. The major fact staring them in the face they are missing though is the "Cross Platform" meaning PC extreme Hardware with Mouse and Keyboard Versus Console players with a gamepad. And yes the console players got destroyed by the superior hardware, and 0 input lag of the KB/M on the PC.
But this was never ever the case in DUST, KB/M support that has been offered here has always been approached with balance in mind. There has never been proof or even a hint of any gamepad users not being able to compete in PC or FW, or everyone or even a majority being forced to use KB/M(Like everyone is forced to use Aim Assist) There has always been some input delay fused into the KB/M support in DUST 514, even was present in Chromosome. And i know people who play in competitive FPS leagues on the PC for CoD and CS:GO, that plays exclusively Gamepad(360 Controller Albeit)And would give anyone a run for their money.
The fact is Aim Assist hurts DUST 514. Fact. I have "X" Health. You have "X" Health. We both look, Aim assists lock; we move the joystick up slightly, Skills points, suit and health points and that is the winner. No Gun game; No skill No sense of achievement or drive to improve.. And the worst feeling that changed for me that made DUST so magical. "Damn that guy got me this time, my skill, aim and movement wasn't good enough and he got me, This time!. I'm gonna spawn back and get him!!" That gun game and enjoyment is lacking in Dust 514 and is what made it so magical from the moment to moment.
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DootDoot
Da Short Buss
146
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Posted - 2013.12.31 16:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Valmorgan Aubaris wrote:Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character?
I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between.
Thats what needs to be fixed.
Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is.
Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users.
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DootDoot
Da Short Buss
147
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Posted - 2013.12.31 16:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:bolsh lee wrote:
Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns...
7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Your points are becoming quite silly and illogical. Knowing our own numbers is not going to fix dust 514 either. The only thing it does it tells us we have a problem, a problem I know when and where we lose our players to which nearly majority of the community is getting entirely wrong as to when we lose our players. In my opinion going to the gun range (to which I hate to say it but CCP doesn't have access to such things locally at most of its studios) is not useful. Researching into why and how Halo changed the concept of gaming would be far more useful.
So apparently IWS has known exactly why DUST keeps loosing numbers since chromosome. And it has nothing to do with gun game or clunky aiming mechanics that has plagued DUST since Uprising launch. And nothing to do with an Active Aim assist that tracks targets for you.
Apparently to him actually understanding how a gun works in practicality like at a gun range... Wouldn't help game development, even when almost every major FPS title goes out and does that research first hand. And yes even in China there are options to do this silly. http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.php
Halo gave us a generation of Shooters with health points that recover over time, and possibly the shield Idea(Not that CCP wouldn't of done it in a FPS) "Microsoft announced last night that Halo 4 made over $220 million worldwide in the first 24 hours on sale" With those sale numbers you would think the game would have some kind of life still? but its a dead game with those numbers... and one of the biggest publishing backers in software.
We aren't gonna match halo numbers,there is to much that goes with Halo besides a video game. The fact is DUST is boring other then playing with friends and leveling your character. And this never was the case until Aim assist came in and took out all the challenge and sense of achievement in killing someone.
You just don't like that your idea of adding Aim Assist back into the game has been one of the key factors to the DUST community Dieing since September. And can no longer blame the lack of summer vacations... Seeing how we just went through the biggest holiday season in the year with even worse numbers. |
DootDoot
Da Short Buss
149
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Posted - 2013.12.31 17:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Valmorgan Aubaris wrote:DootDoot wrote:Valmorgan Aubaris wrote:Am I the only one that has far more fun creating a new character and playing the one game you get in the academy with it, then deleting the character?
I think the very core lies in the awful matchmaking system. Its either get steamrolled by the opposite side in a very humiliating manner, compounded by tanks, or dominate. No in between.
Thats what needs to be fixed. Sure, it might be fun making a new character and preying upon young DUST'ers who don't understand skill points, suits, fitting, or even what ISK is. Still the fact remains, No Active Aim Assist was ever needed for DS3 users to compete with each other at the beginning stages of DUST. And certainly wasn't a tool needed for them to do something that was already being done successfully from Battle Academy to Corp Battles, DS3 users owning and or competing with M/KB users. Nah, thats not the case, many in the academy are DUST players doing the same thing I am, try it you'll see.
Sure there might be a couple. But with the new accounts created every day in DUST(Now just to keep those new players without vet's ripping their face off in even battle academy). wouldn't make sense looking at the numbers... some? sure.
Back to the fact that poor matchmaking has always been a part of DUST, that is a persistent problem within DUST. Aim Assist was added in September 1.4 patch. All of Chromosome, Most of Beta in fact(the time when we had over 12k player peaks) And Uprising 1.0,1.1.1.2,1.3 Existed without Aim assist. Its a key factor that has fundementally changed DUST as a game.
Planetary Conquest for all it's flaws has been a player made matchmaking system. And through it's use by the players there has been more then enough even matchmaking. Aiming mechanics, Frame rate, Latency, Collision Mechanics. these are the key persistent issues in DUST, Matchmaking for it's problem with NPE is a small one. We have had corp battles, and planetary conquest where those who participated in the prime of those activities would argue they had some of the most even matches in player skill.
Preying on Young Dust'ers Has always been a pass time for people. That IS WHY CCP had to limit the stay of people preying on those new players. |
DootDoot
Da Short Buss
149
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Posted - 2013.12.31 17:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DootDoot wrote:So apparently IWS has known exactly why DUST keeps loosing numbers since chromosome. And it has nothing to do with gun game or clunky aiming mechanics that has plagued DUST since Uprising launch. And nothing to do with an Active Aim assist that tracks targets for you. Apparently to him actually understanding how a gun works in practicality like at a gun range... Wouldn't help game development, even when almost every major FPS title goes out and does that research first hand. And yes even in China there are options to do this silly. http://www.tour-beijing.com/sportstour/china_north_international_shooting_range.phpHalo gave us a generation of Shooters with health points that recover over time, and possibly the shield Idea(Not that CCP wouldn't of done it in a FPS) "Microsoft announced last night that Halo 4 made over $220 million worldwide in the first 24 hours on sale" With those sale numbers you would think the game would have some kind of life still? but its a dead game with those numbers... and one of the biggest publishing backers in software. We aren't gonna match halo numbers,there is to much that goes with Halo besides a video game. The fact is DUST is boring other then playing with friends and leveling your character. And this never was the case until Aim assist came in and took out all the challenge and sense of achievement in killing someone. You just don't like that your idea of adding Aim Assist back into the game has been one of the key factors to the DUST community Dieing since September. And can no longer blame the lack of summer vacations... Seeing how we just went through the biggest holiday season in the year with even worse numbers. Wrong type of gun range: http://i874.photobucket.com/albums/ab302/MP0117/darcpic_2.jpeg located in Arkansas is far more practical for a developer to learn to get through for the kind of game we're in. While a paintball range would be near equivalent most of your PP guns are nowhere near as massive nor heavy and cumbersome as real equipment. Also if the only thing you think Halo did was give us regenerative health you need to look at the far much larger picture Example: Before Halo http://wadido.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/nerd.jpgAfter Halo http://web-images.chacha.com/images/which-high-school-stereotype-are-you-jun-5-2012-600x400.jpgHad halo followed the exact formula that attracted the same customers counterstrike attracts; the former will likely still be applied today and consoles would still continue to struggle to be in everyone's livings rooms, steam would not be making its own console and http://createyoursuccess.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/people_casual_clothes.jpg would have been the trend of players being tracked as the first major shift in games which would likely seen the start of ea and other publishers rampaging into the 'mobile market' like no tommarow. Why I would hazard to say the reason why counter strike is not popular is for the same exact reasons dust 514 is not that popular either. Which is taking one of these http://createyoursuccess.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/people_casual_clothes.jpg and turning them into one of these http://www.gamergirltay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Wild-Gamer2.jpg in 10 minutes.
Ill come back and edit this in an hour when i can deal with responding to this much stupid. from the first link.... my gawd I swear you are meta gaming CCP to ruin DUST.
IWS as bad as any feature in DUST EST he became CPM. |
DootDoot
Da Short Buss
149
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Posted - 2013.12.31 18:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:DootDoot wrote:
I'll come back and edit this in an hour when i can deal with responding to this much stupid. from the first link.... my gawd I swear you are meta gaming CCP to ruin DUST.
IWS as bad as any feature in DUST EST he became CPM.
So says the nerdy game boy who cannot take off his gamer glasses for 5 seconds and play scientist a short bit to understand what ticks and what doesn't.
Thanks needed the motivation to respond to this supposive community representative who has pushed for Aim Assist and Tank Buffs while pushing for AV nerfs at the same time, actively hurting DUST in the communities name in vast swoops, IWS EST CPM.
Bethhy wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:bolsh lee wrote:
Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns...
7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Right now there is over 85k people just on the PC... and it's a consistent number.. http://steamcommunity.com/app/730IWS can't really be trying to question the legitimacy of Counter-strike as a reference... and defend DUST... *Eyes start to cry blood*
You've already been told.. Counter strike still kicks the crap out of your halo... always has through all of them 1-4 and will still be around when DUST is dead, however regrettable that thought is.
The thought that Halo brought the "Cool Kids" to First person shooters is.... Seriously? really? when do we get another vote for CPM? You understand Heaton Example Was liek the staple for Counter-strike.
I TRIED to find a cool Halo competition for players example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUmlpSVLj8
Halo isn't some game that brought "Cool" to gaming... like my gawd... must be cool in your world. full of magical ferries and big mushrooms everywhere? prancing deer and bunny's talking and all that?
And Do your freaking research PLEASE if your gonna Done the "CPM" your mis-representing the community your supposedly representing... http://kotaku.com/5626214/what-do-game-developers-know-about-real-guns Many, many, many articles prove that all developers goto shooting ranges...... that want to create a true gun experience.. or care. At all. How does linking This Say anyting about a realistic example.. a paint ball range? Or what they are supposed to run around with real guns? You want them to just get exorcise or something? confusing
Your part of the problem IWS and a huge part to blame for both the Aim Assist that has actively killed this community and the AV Efficacy reduction while simultaneously pushing Tank buffs.. Knowing what this community has been through with over tweaking. I ask you again, are you Meta gaming CCP for something they did?, And actively trying to kill DUST?
I miss my friends who won't log back on and alot of the issues and thing's you have actively pushed and defended on these very forums while insulting the people that have come here to voice there opinions and causing a hostile reactional environment to your posting. |
DootDoot
Da Short Buss
155
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Posted - 2013.12.31 19:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:You play FPS on a rig? KB/M
You play on console? controller.
Reason why KZ3 had that whole uprising and forced KZ4 to never integrate move in. And KZ has NO AIM ASSITS. But I'm sure KZ players already know this.
You don't mix the two. And their is a reason tho why AA is on, if you do mix the two. As a FPS player both RIG and Console, you can't tell me any controller can compete (with out AA) with a mouse. Come on! Who you kidding? LOL Doesn't mean a bad FPS rig player will beat a seasoned console fps player. But when you put two season FPS players on then it really shows. it's what happened with the move.
Welcome to Dust.
Where DS3 users have been on top of the KD/R and Leaderboards in general with no AA versus KB/M since Closed Beta. If Dust was a cross platform game where someone had a computer with the latest hardware, 0 input delay and was an actual mouse not and Overlay of a DS3 then yes the M/Kb would be superior at least IMO. This has never been the case in DUST ever.
And Mainly is like FOX News reporting half truths about science after reporting on a deer getting stuck in a frozen lake.
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