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Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 543	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:37:00 - [1] - Quote Jake Bloodworth wrote: Could it be that Chromosome was new... shiny... Eve players were excited (Well a few of them anyway). Why in the world would you connect the higher numbers of Chromosome with mouse and keyboard? Balance was better across the board. The new to veteran player gap was smaller. Every player wasn't sitting on a pile isk. Only the best players could continuously run Proto gear in pubs. Now everyone can Proto all day if they had a decent amount of salvage pre-uprising. I was very new when uprising hit and I went from 12 million isk to 83 million isk. The balance of the game was destroyed by massive isk influx, multiple SP respecs, and higher SP sinks. Add to that a playerbase (like me) that has become jaded. Keyboard and mouse factors in there somewhere. But, it is an infinitesimally small thing compared to the balancing, polish, and content issues that plague Dust. It had everything to do with the gun game. It was addicting in DUST, then you would get to know the community and the persistent skill system and other games where almost pointless to play. There is no gun game anymore it doesn't exist... Its skill points, Suit fitting, and math... that's who wins fights... there is no individual aiming skill, strengths and weaknesses that made gun game and the moment to moment FUN in DUST. Now it's a giant grind with little to no stimulating gun fights or even a sense of achievement in killing someone. Quote: But the skill gap is so compressed, that itGÇÖs like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says GÇ£I got a kill!GÇ¥ TheyGÇÖve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guysGÇöI see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and theyGÇÖre like GÇ£This gameGÇÖs just too hardcore. IGÇÖm awesome at Call of Duty, so thereGÇÖs something wrong with your game. Because IGÇÖm not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. IGÇÖm not the problem, itGÇÖs your game.GÇ¥ And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something thatGÇÖs not accesible enough, they canGÇÖt figure it out, we didnGÇÖt give them enough information to figure out where to go... but more often than not, itGÇÖs because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. John Gibson Pretty much sums up the argument... CS:GO has proved that M/KB raw input on console is fine and there are very real users competing in competition environments with a DS3 versus a M/KB user. And holding their own and might I say OWNING some of the M/KB players... like has happened in DUST since the beginning. Stop blaming good DS3 users on M/KB.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 545	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:41:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? Right now there is over 85k people just on the PC... and it's a consistent number.. http://steamcommunity.com/app/730 IWS can't really be trying to question the legitimacy of Counter-strike as a reference... and defend DUST... Eyes start to cry blood
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 545	Posted - 2013.12.23 18:57:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Yet again, its not about you or me or any one person.. Its about our 4k player base compared to a 75k player base if 4k players is what CCP is proud of and coined as their "cult player base" that's pretty pathetic even for a company that "doesn't do shooters" Tell me why CCP shouldn't market Dust to the PC communityby improving kb/m ? You continue to prove my data is correct the only argument you have is your own personal experience ? Sorry ironwolf as a CPM you should probably try to think outside the box your "new content appealing to veterans" is limited and doesn't garnish any returns... 7 billion people on earth and only 75k play Counterstrike? I can't believe a supposed CPM just typed this....... That's ONE shooter not even a mass advertised FPS like your COD and BF titles not to mention your 12yr old self stomped your feet and asked why you should play it ? Well IDK ask the massive player base compared to the game you're deffending... You should, considering this CPM doesn't give a damn about other game's numbers because they do absolutely nothing to fix this games numbers. Period. Nice Edit btw. IWS proving his ignorance on an hourly basis. TM http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/20/tripwires-devs-talk-about-research-at-the-shooting-range/ Most developers look to do research on the product they are creating... and you cannot make a FPS without thinking of counter-strike.. a game very simply made as for content but the gameplay and gungame has built Internet cafe's around it.. Has made people play the same game for a decade with little to no changes.. If gun game can addict someone to Counter-strike, and keep active numbers like this consistently with adding little to no content? wouldn't that be something to look into for DUST? A game process where people get hooked on just the gameplay... No gizmo's of a Persistent skill system, Guilds(Same thing), different roles and classes... and new additions every 30 days. Somewhere along the lines you missed what Vavle does better then most gaming companies and why most developers tip their hat to them not bad mouth them. They build games around the gameplay... FIRST... not fancy things to placate you.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 551	Posted - 2013.12.23 19:58:00 - [4] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Jake Bloodworth wrote: OP makes a poor argument when comparing ccp and valve. Valve has a proven pedigree that spans over a decade when it comes to the fps genre. He is comparing apples and oranges between developers and games here. CS lacks the complexity in systems that Dust has with its equipment, SP, vehicles, corporations, eve link(lol), etc. Add to that the fact that plenty of console games maintain extreme player counts without mouse and keyboard controls. As for your list of games to compare player base numbers. Each of those games has nothing in common with Dust. They are mmo's, and not shooters. They also each have a critical element that helps maintain their high player base... PVE. They are casual friendly. In the end, this is just another mouse and keyboard pc overlord complaining because ccp didn't build the game for him. Nothing to see here. You know if it wasn't for us PC players EVE would have not survived to begin with. DUST would have not been created out of that and I dont know the exact numbers but I imagine a lot of the current player base COME from the PC EVE online game. So dont slate us. CCP should have made DUST for PC end of story. The PS3 limits this game in so many ways. In 2015 Sony will stop supporting PS3 online I think? (I could be wrong) so yea I still think bringing dust to PC is the way forwards. Damn, the PS3 can barely run this game! Certainly not at any sort of decent frame rate 50% of the time! (This doesn't stop the game from being fun sometimes however, I just wish it was on PC) I Hope DUST never comes to the PC, though have a rather nice one and would be able to engage the the hardware battle to stay competitive. CCP has left as big of a footprint as they can currently in the PC world, with EVE online being one of the biggest success stories in MMORPG's and being a persistent title for coming on 11 years. The only way to truly expand the CCP product would be to target console users. And CCP chose right with the Playstation support, and have got things even some of the biggest developers haven't out of Sony. Not to mention choosing the console platform that will be the standard for the next generation the PS4. Most of the PS4 games you see are nothing but 360 and PS3 games with texture packsTexture pack example.. Most developers admit they haven't reached the limits of what the PS3 can do. CCP's main problem is they keep trying to compete for the same market as BF and CoD, when they should be catering to a much different FPS market and grab the players those two genre's cant. If what they where after was the CoD and BF market they would of been better off working on PVE in chromosome then even thinking about planetary conquest.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 613	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:36:00 - [5] - Quote low genius wrote: so, now that you own nothing you've decided to put your time into foolish forum posts? sounds like the last gasp of a dead alliance. this issue goes beyond owning districts... or sides of beefs or ones own spare time
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 614	Posted - 2013.12.31 18:58:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: DootDoot wrote: You've already been told.. Counter strike still kicks the crap out of your halo... always has through all of them 1-4 and will still be around when DUST is dead, however regrettable that thought is. The thought that Halo brought the "Cool Kids" to First person shooters is.... Seriously? really? when do we get another vote for CPM? You understand Heaton Example Was liek the staple for Counter-strike. I TRIED to find a cool Halo competition for players example... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUmlpSVLj8 Halo isn't some game that brought "Cool" to gaming... like my gawd... must be cool in your world. full of magical ferries and big mushrooms everywhere? prancing deer and bunny's talking and all that? And Do you freaking research PLEASE if your gonna Done the "CPM" you mis-representing the community your supposedly representing... http://kotaku.com/5626214/what-do-game-developers-know-about-real-guns Many many many articles prove that all developers goto shooting ranges...... that want to create a true gun experience.. or care. At all. How does linking This Say anyting about a real life realistic example.. a paint ball range? Or what they are supposed to run around with real guns? You want them to just get exorcise or something? confusing Your part of the problem IWS and a huge part to blame for both the Aim Assist that has actively killed this community and the AV Efficacy reduction while simultaneously pushing Tank buffs.. Knowing what this community has been through with over tweaking. I ask you again, are you Meta gaming CCP for something they did?, And actively trying to kill DUST? I miss my friends who won't log back on and alot of the issues are for thing's you have actively pushed and defended on these very forums while insulting the people that have come here to voice there opinions and causing a hostile reactional environment to your posting. Yeah let's all talk about gamer preference all day long and get nowhere either as neither side will ever be convinced one other games is not a tragedy to the shooting gaming environment. And about me misrepresenting, you need to understand nearly all of the people I am representing do NOT want this game to play like halo, Counter Strike, fallout or any other goddamn shooter out there. They want Dust 514 to play like Dust 514 and they have told me the controls are not right still and I keep forwarding that message on many pain points from simple stupid controller unresponsiveness, intermittent AA performance on various clients, Double sensitivity reads, to just simple movement in the environment being horrifically bad from scaling hills, quick sand traps, and wall snags or higher than it looks railings, that list is exhaustively long and I have been relaying it whenever chances I do get concerning it. . Someone got defensive quickly Iron Wolf Saber wrote: And back at you about research: This is not a paint ball range It is a tactical range. DARC Direct Action Resource Center They teach breaching, sweeping, and host of other situations that occur that would get you killed in real life like how to deal with a weapon jam on the spot. A normal gun range you sit there and fiddle with the gun to get the obstruction cleared. This range you clear it, you clear it quick, you clear it fast, you clear it safe, or you're labeled dead. Basically the difference between http://shop.sklz.com/accessories/quicksterr-qb-trainer-7-x-7/invt/qksqb01?gclid=CIr05cSO27sCFWMV7Aod4mkApw and http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh_impact/photo/gerard-poutier-c776d4a323399bc5.jpg Watching videos, playing it safe and controlled, and dumbed down life experiences are no excuse for those who nearly get or do get killed undramatically recreating scenes you enjoy in your games. Sadly Life is so poorly designed because he quoted me so nicely.... you quote a picture with cinderblocks in a mock building for tactics players would create regardless givin the tools in a game. he quoted an article of every major FPS game developer explaining their credentials with real world use of firearms. not real use of tactics in the real world and how that works in DUST. Lastly from my own personal view point DUST was DUST when everyone was aiming for themself. When DUST was about personal skill as much as the suit you where wearing at the time. People are moving to titles without aim assist, BF4 got bad reviews because it was so strong, CoD is a growing joke in the FPS community and has to re release a product nearly anually to stay relevant. DUST has been DUST without AA then it has with. And has been better at it. this is fact amoungst the consensus. i just wished you represented it.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 618	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:42:00 - [7] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to the OP but here goes. the player base has been "4k and falling" since I got here, somehow we never make it to 3k and falling this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. EvE is 10 years old, WoW is 12 years old, aion is 4 years old, runescape is 12 years old. Dust 514 is 7/8 months old depending on the time this post is read(happy new year new eden!)... why would Dust have a player count comparable to games that have years of development and expansions behind them when it isn't even a year old? sll in all your argument is, well I'm not sure what it is or where you thought it was going, but it isn't well put together or relevant. so yay you? Ok so your a closed beta vet and "the player base has been 4k and falling since you got here?" i remember over 12k player peaks in chromosome a time when there was no aim assist or poor KB/M support.. "this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50." So what is top 50? because as has been said on multiple accounts most people can name DUST's Aim assist fromt he 1.4 patch as the top 10 big reasons on why they dont play it... let alone what "annoys them" "I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room." I hate to say it but none of the console shooters here ever needed aim assist nor has any FPS game. to me, this, pretty much sums up this thread. DootDoot wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign.. I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0, pretty much told them what kind of developers CCP is.... No matter how i defend CCP to them... it's hard to get around that point.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 619	Posted - 2014.01.01 03:59:00 - [8] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CS just lacks any semblance of useful tactics or any type of reward for intelligent play and always rewards the fastest guy on the scene. Maybe the reason why people enjoy that game is the apparent lack of campers. http://www.geek.com/games/half-life-counterstrike-trains-british-troops-549192/ ??????????????? http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/6262328.html sheesh people must get tired having to do your research for you all the time. Edit* Oh and we did call it Camper-Strike a fair bit..
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 620	Posted - 2014.01.01 04:17:00 - [9] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bethhy wrote: knight of 6 wrote: I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to the OP but here goes. the player base has been "4k and falling" since I got here, somehow we never make it to 3k and falling this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50. I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room. EvE is 10 years old, WoW is 12 years old, aion is 4 years old, runescape is 12 years old. Dust 514 is 7/8 months old depending on the time this post is read(happy new year new eden!)... why would Dust have a player count comparable to games that have years of development and expansions behind them when it isn't even a year old? sll in all your argument is, well I'm not sure what it is or where you thought it was going, but it isn't well put together or relevant. so yay you? Ok so your a closed beta vet and "the player base has been 4k and falling since you got here?" i remember over 12k player peaks in chromosome a time when there was no aim assist or poor KB/M support.. "this argument is all over the place, are you blaming low player count on poor KB/m integration? there are a thousand reasons not to play dust and I'm sorry to say poor KB/m integration doesn't make the top 50." So what is top 50? because as has been said on multiple accounts most people can name DUST's Aim assist fromt he 1.4 patch as the top 10 big reasons on why they dont play it... let alone what "annoys them" "I hate to be this way, but you are on our(console) turf now. use a controller, if I mentioned poor gaming controller support on many PC forums I'd be laughed out of the room." I hate to say it but none of the console shooters here ever needed aim assist nor has any FPS game. to me, this, pretty much sums up this thread. DootDoot wrote: bolsh lee wrote: Sure hit detection is better but that's only if you're paying in a non competitive environment with a controller, even aim assist can't help the 5-10 frame PC matches that completely show CCP's lack of core improvements.. Also, not alienating the PC Gamers by nerfing the KB/M into the ground could help, lets face it every bit will help.. I can tell you my personal experience alone there have been 5 of my friends who all love the idea behind Dust but won't even give it the time of day till the kb/m is fixed.. I understand 5 isn't a big number but im only one person and that's part of the problem is that the kb/m community in Dust has dwindled down to a minority .. You gotta think, Say CCP does a 360 on KB/M controls and the PC community gets wind of it, the majority of veteran kb/m players will return (If they haven't already sold their ps3) and the msg will spread like wild fire I 'd like to think our weekend peak would spike just with that fix alone.. They have to bridge the gap like it was in Chromosome.. And i believe that is what the majority of what Roman was saying.. Console players especially the competitive ones need to embrace it and allow both inputs to be at its peak because CCP needs the revenue bad.. Also, Id like to say Ive played on the top competitive lvl of Dust all through my 2yrs here and I barley hear competitive players assuming or complaining about kb/m.. If they get out gunned they try harder, regardless of the input used, when kb/m was at its peak i was going toe to toe with extremely talented DS3 users, there was no reason to nerf the kb/m besides CCP's self proclaimed balancing campaign.. I can name over 5 friends who I play games with on the PS3 regularly who won't touch the game and haven't since 1.4... Having terrible controls was one thing but installing a computer generated tracking system for all ds3 users to band-aid the terrible controls instead of fixing the aiming system that got installed in Uprising 1.0, pretty much told them what kind of developers CCP is.... No matter how i defend CCP to them... it's hard to get around that point. we never had 12k We never had 9k. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX942zT6iLE Whats that famous EVE video "I Was There?" People where there you can't pretend it away.

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