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1.7 worse for av or tankers?

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poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:48:00 - [1] - Quote I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank? let me tell you that the assault forgeguns are enough pain in the anus without you jumping ants running around my tank or sitting way over in the redline packing a 2100 damage punch 4 times with that silly little toy of yours... and then you trow these bloody tracking germain hand grenades, and of course they do about 1500 damage EACH. If you dont think that its unfair that you only need one ant to sneak up to a tank, put a good nanohive down, thow a few av grenades, then when the tank tries to make a run for it (unexpectedly) the ant pull out his way overpowered wiryrkomi swarm luncher and drains the last scraps of his armour. and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k? You have to relize that you are not the only ones getting nerfed... Tankers are going to be nerfed to the dust to. Try to imagine the galliente logistics with 3 lows instead of 5... You would laugh right? oh WOW we get 400 more armour!! that just made my day! If you would give galliente logistics 40 more armour and take 2 low modules away then first we would hear people rage for real. Just please take all the low and high slots away ccp! appearantly we dont need them. Please just stop this bullshit that tanks are going to be overpowered. just think about it, I think that 600k-1m isk should be more op than one 100k suit though the aren-¦t. Im sorry, maybe I am the only one that thinks that?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7794	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:49:00 - [2] - Quote All I know is dropships are going to be invincible Words / Vids / OSG
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:51:00 - [3] - Quote How can you say that? we will only have the militia crap and grimsnes/(caldari one). Right?
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 198	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:56:00 - [4] - Quote It's hard to say how AV as a whole is going to be doing since we don't know the state of the Forge Gun but I can say that with the changes to Swarms and AV grenades in particular I'd expect to see an increase in Proximity Explosives to combat what will undoubtedly be a bigger increase in LAVs. DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible Not with how much damage Large Rails are packing ... and again, we still don't know how the Forge Gun has changed. 1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1487	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:56:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible Forgies will still be forging, and rails still be railing, and there will only be normal derpships for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong while. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
Zekain K Expert Intervention Caldari State 501	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:57:00 - [6] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible Not from Rdv's. There should be an anti air swarm launcher that can only target air vehicles. They would have they range they do now. Nut one less rocket.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2221	Posted - 2013.11.19 17:59:00 - [7] - Quote Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. No.
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:10:00 - [8] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. There is always someone out there so naive.... my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard.
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:12:00 - [9] - Quote If ccp are intending for tanks to get auto-aim I am all ears
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7796	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:16:00 - [10] - Quote poison Diego wrote: How can you say that? we will only have the militia crap and grimsnes/(caldari one). Right? Yea but they got a HP buff as well as a MASSIVE buff to PG / CPU, along with the option to not fit turrets. Once Assault Dropships are back in the game....you're gonna need an AV assault dropship to take out other assault dropships, and even that probably won't work if afterburners become more popular, which is likely considering the massive stat boost. Just gonna have to see how it plays out Words / Vids / OSG

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1703	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:21:00 - [11] - Quote Tankers who have stayed till now will stay for 1.7 to test it out, old tankers who did give up and either left the game or went infantry may return, part time tankers who have more in infantry may go full blown infantry or stick with a vehicle and dabble in it, new tankers will either leave or stay AV players who use the SL will drop it, the vast majority will drop the SL altogether, those which know how to use it and how to get into a good place to take that tank out will stick with it, those which work together to take out a tank will also stick with it FG players may drop it if the damage is reduced, the splash has been nerfed but if you can aim your fine, most FG player will most likely stick with it if they enjoy the fat suit
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:21:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: How can you say that? we will only have the militia crap and grimsnes/(caldari one). Right? Yea but they got a HP buff as well as a MASSIVE buff to PG / CPU, along with the option to not fit turrets. Once Assault Dropships are back in the game....you're gonna need an AV assault dropship to take out other assault dropships, and even that probably won't work if afterburners become more popular, which is likely considering the massive stat boost. Just gonna have to see how it plays out yes but I think that is actually just going to be fun. that now the air battle will last for few sec longer than before when they get F*cked in one breach forge shot from me. I haven-¦t come across on ship that has survived a breach shot from me. Their only chance is to avoid it. but of course they cant know that I spawn with a breach...
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:25:00 - [13] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tankers who have stayed till now will stay for 1.7 to test it out, old tankers who did give up and either left the game or went infantry may return, part time tankers who have more in infantry may go full blown infantry or stick with a vehicle and dabble in it, new tankers will either leave or stay AV players who use the SL will drop it, the vast majority will drop the SL altogether, those which know how to use it and how to get into a good place to take that tank out will stick with it, those which work together to take out a tank will also stick with it FG players may drop it if the damage is reduced, the splash has been nerfed but if you can aim your fine, most FG player will most likely stick with it if they enjoy the fat suit So is it certain tha FG are going to be nerfed?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7799	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:28:00 - [14] - Quote poison Diego wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: How can you say that? we will only have the militia crap and grimsnes/(caldari one). Right? Yea but they got a HP buff as well as a MASSIVE buff to PG / CPU, along with the option to not fit turrets. Once Assault Dropships are back in the game....you're gonna need an AV assault dropship to take out other assault dropships, and even that probably won't work if afterburners become more popular, which is likely considering the massive stat boost. Just gonna have to see how it plays out yes but I think that is actually just going to be fun. that now the air battle will last for few sec longer than before when they get F*cked in one breach forge shot from me. I haven-¦t come across on ship that has survived a breach shot from me. Their only chance is to avoid it. but of course they cant know that I spawn with a breach... I can survive a breach shot so long as I either A.) have my resistances active or B.) am at max health. That of course is assuming you don't hit my gigantic weak spot for what, 135% damage? Ouch. Judge has it right if you ask me, forges that are charging up should show up on the minimap as yellow dots. It's a very minor warning, but it would be a huge help. Words / Vids / OSG
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:30:00 - [15] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: How can you say that? we will only have the militia crap and grimsnes/(caldari one). Right? Yea but they got a HP buff as well as a MASSIVE buff to PG / CPU, along with the option to not fit turrets. Once Assault Dropships are back in the game....you're gonna need an AV assault dropship to take out other assault dropships, and even that probably won't work if afterburners become more popular, which is likely considering the massive stat boost. Just gonna have to see how it plays out yes but I think that is actually just going to be fun. that now the air battle will last for few sec longer than before when they get F*cked in one breach forge shot from me. I haven-¦t come across on ship that has survived a breach shot from me. Their only chance is to avoid it. but of course they cant know that I spawn with a breach... I can survive a breach shot so long as I either A.) have my resistances active or B.) am at max health. That of course is assuming you don't hit my gigantic weak spot for what, 135% damage? Ouch. Judge has it right if you ask me, forges that are charging up should show up on the minimap as yellow dots. It's a very minor warning, but it would be a huge help. how much is your max hp?
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:31:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: How can you say that? we will only have the militia crap and grimsnes/(caldari one). Right? Yea but they got a HP buff as well as a MASSIVE buff to PG / CPU, along with the option to not fit turrets. Once Assault Dropships are back in the game....you're gonna need an AV assault dropship to take out other assault dropships, and even that probably won't work if afterburners become more popular, which is likely considering the massive stat boost. Just gonna have to see how it plays out yes but I think that is actually just going to be fun. that now the air battle will last for few sec longer than before when they get F*cked in one breach forge shot from me. I haven-¦t come across on ship that has survived a breach shot from me. Their only chance is to avoid it. but of course they cant know that I spawn with a breach... I can survive a breach shot so long as I either A.) have my resistances active or B.) am at max health. That of course is assuming you don't hit my gigantic weak spot for what, 135% damage? Ouch. Judge has it right if you ask me, forges that are charging up should show up on the minimap as yellow dots. It's a very minor warning, but it would be a huge help. well fitted logistic dropship may survive a breach shot but that doesn-¦t happen very often
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1704	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:34:00 - [17] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Tankers who have stayed till now will stay for 1.7 to test it out, old tankers who did give up and either left the game or went infantry may return, part time tankers who have more in infantry may go full blown infantry or stick with a vehicle and dabble in it, new tankers will either leave or stay AV players who use the SL will drop it, the vast majority will drop the SL altogether, those which know how to use it and how to get into a good place to take that tank out will stick with it, those which work together to take out a tank will also stick with it FG players may drop it if the damage is reduced, the splash has been nerfed but if you can aim your fine, most FG player will most likely stick with it if they enjoy the fat suit So is it certain tha FG are going to be nerfed? No idea All we had is the splash nerfed Patch notes will tell us it seems
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 7799	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:36:00 - [18] - Quote poison Diego wrote: how much is your max hp? Incubus 3,767 with 6% base resists I'm no longer maxed in dropships thanks to Uprising and the last respec. Words / Vids / OSG
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1570	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:36:00 - [19] - Quote In the long run, good for both, as it will lay a more stable foundation to build on. In the short run, some tweaking will inevitably be required after redoing the balance from the ground up.
Slag Emberforge Immortal Retribution 126	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:37:00 - [20] - Quote CCP hasn't given any indication that forged for AV are being looked at, post the AI nerf (splash radius) I think they are sitting "ok" at the moment. Certainly charge time, lead time, and actually having to aim unlike lolswarmers makes a difference. Add to the fact it's on a heavy suit and you can't stack 5 damage mods..

poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:39:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: poison Diego wrote: how much is your max hp? Incubus 3,767 with 6% base resists I'm no longer maxed in dropships thanks to Uprising and the last respec. ok I guess I would just leave you burning but if I had proficiency lvl5 I could do about 3800 damage
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 18:50:00 - [22] - Quote poison Diego wrote: and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k? Try 139,000+ ISK. Most tanks run away after my first volley anyway. The damage nerf isn't what's bothering me, it's the range nerf. To decrease the range by over 50% is too much. Make it at least 250 meters instead of 175 meters. The not logic bomb!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1704	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:03:00 - [23] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: poison Diego wrote: and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k? Try 139,000+ ISK. Most tanks run away after my first volley anyway. The damage nerf isn't what's bothering me, it's the range nerf. To decrease the range by over 50% is too much. Make it at least 250 meters instead of 175 meters. So you are out of range of 2 turrets so only rails can kill you?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1159	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:04:00 - [24] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. There is always someone out there so naive.... my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard. They lock on and shoot....but crash into everything possible. They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself. What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers. Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs. And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:13:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. There is always someone out there so naive.... my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard. They lock on and shoot....but crash into everything possible. They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself. What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers. Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs. And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting. so you are saying that only well known and famous tankers should tank because they are not as hard to kill? that ridiculous!! thats like saying if logis aren-¦t doing theyr job fx repairing armour, providing ammo and reviving they shouldn't play as logistic. Then the logistic would vanish from dust514. And what I think is that solo players shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily at all unless like those paper-somas or very idiotic tankers.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1159	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:19:00 - [26] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Atiim wrote: They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself. What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers. Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs. And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting. so you are saying that only well known and famous tankers should tank because they are not as hard to kill? that ridiculous!! thats like saying if logis aren-¦t doing theyr job fx repairing armour, providing ammo and reviving they shouldn't play as logistic. Then the logistic would vanish from dust514. And what I think is that solo players shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily at all unless like those paper-somas or very idiotic tankers. No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 0	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:28:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: Atiim wrote: They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself. What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers. Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs. And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting. so you are saying that only well known and famous tankers should tank because they are not as hard to kill? that ridiculous!! thats like saying if logis aren-¦t doing theyr job fx repairing armour, providing ammo and reviving they shouldn't play as logistic. Then the logistic would vanish from dust514. And what I think is that solo players shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily at all unless like those paper-somas or very idiotic tankers. No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. maybe you dont see it, but there is a price difference to those two things. a descent tank is about 600k isk but a "PROTOTYPE" av costs at most 150-180k I think that you need at least 2x 180k = 360k to destroy 600k, that is 2 "PROTOTYPE" av b*ches
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 1289	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:32:00 - [28] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible Forges will still be a danger, could you stop? CCP might take you seriously and prenerf our derpships "Please don't" GÿåForum warrior lvl.1Gÿå I Support SP Rollover, MAKE IT HAPPEN CCP !!!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1159	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:36:00 - [29] - Quote A decent tank is 400k ISK sorry. And you assume that the AV will not die at all when trying to take out a tank. You also assume that having AV makes us invincible. Stop trying to avoid the point. If yo think AV is so easy then go try to solo a good HAV with a good pilot and post a video showing your gameplay. You won't do it will you. It's a shame that most tankers will just spew whatever lie they want and then run like hell when someone asks for proof. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2658	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:37:00 - [30] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: Atiim wrote: They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself. What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers. Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs. And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting. so you are saying that only well known and famous tankers should tank because they are not as hard to kill? that ridiculous!! thats like saying if logis aren-¦t doing theyr job fx repairing armour, providing ammo and reviving they shouldn't play as logistic. Then the logistic would vanish from dust514. And what I think is that solo players shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily at all unless like those paper-somas or very idiotic tankers. No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. maybe you dont see it, but there is a price difference to those two things. a descent tank is about 600k isk but a "PROTOTYPE" av costs at most 150-180k I think that you need at least 2x 180k = 360k to destroy 600k, that is 2 "PROTOTYPE" av b*ches Do you realize how easy it is for infantry to kill AV infantry? I'd rather fight infantry in a scout suit with only a scrambler pistol than in my AV suit. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.

Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1183	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:39:00 - [31] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible Forges will still be a danger, could you stop? CCP might take you seriously and prenerf our derpships Yes, so long as CCP doesn't change the damage on the FG in a surprise patch-day announcement, I intend to leave the name of my Ishukone AFG fit as it is: "Dropship Hatemail." ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 100/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 603	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:39:00 - [32] - Quote Atiim wrote: No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do. The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor. Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile. If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:45:00 - [33] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: poison Diego wrote: and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k? Try 139,000+ ISK. Most tanks run away after my first volley anyway. The damage nerf isn't what's bothering me, it's the range nerf. To decrease the range by over 50% is too much. Make it at least 250 meters instead of 175 meters. So you are out of range of 2 turrets so only rails can kill you? Why not? Half the job of AV is repelling the tank. It's not going to move forward if I hit it at that range, but it's close enough to where a specialized tank to take AV-me out. The not logic bomb!
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2223	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:47:00 - [34] - Quote poison Diego wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. There is always someone out there so naive.... my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard. Recently my most liked post was countering this very point. I could just as easily say that a tanker can roll into a group of enemies and kill them all, as long as he can activate his reppers & get out when his HP gets low. Of course I'd only say that if I had no idea what I was talking about. No.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 603	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:48:00 - [35] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: Why not? Half the job of AV is repelling the tank. It's not going to move forward if I hit it at that range, but it's close enough to where a specialized tank to take AV-me out. So you want tankers to spec into rails, just so they can spam shots at something they can't see? All because you are not good enough to kill a tank when they can see you? Yeah, typical AV, no concern for balance, they just want to be able to destroy vehicles without risk. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1007	Posted - 2013.11.19 19:55:00 - [36] - Quote Stop sounding like a whiny little baby for starters, or are you just hoping for trolls? The swarm nerf was a little too much, they didn't need both a range AND damage nerf, 1 would have been sufficent. The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 603	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:01:00 - [37] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Stop sounding like a whiny little baby for starters, or are you just hoping for trolls? The swarm nerf was a little too much, they didn't need both a range AND damage nerf, 1 would have been sufficent. The swarm nerf was not too much. Swarms were the only weapon to gain +50% damage from standard to proto, and their range allowed for far too many invisible shots. Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. The current scheme would be equivalent to the stinger doing more damage than the RPG in BF. People would justifiably rage at catering to people who cannot handle the basics of aiming a ballistic object. You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 495	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:05:00 - [38] - Quote Can anyone explain why Armor Repairers are Passive modules? Am I understanding this incorrectly? Will it be like infantry modules where the armor repper will passively repair armor over time? The only active modules are: Shield/Armor hardeners, shield boosters and damage amplifiers (also afterburners and such) The Sinwarden
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 603	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:07:00 - [39] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Can anyone explain why Armor Repairers are Passive modules? Am I understanding this incorrectly? Will it be like infantry modules where the armor repper will passively repair armor over time? The only active modules are: Shield/Armor hardeners, shield boosters and damage amplifiers (also afterburners and such) As a punishment for Madrugars having broken reps since Chromo. But yes, it will be like infantry armor repairers. Always active, slow trickle. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 495	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:09:00 - [40] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Can anyone explain why Armor Repairers are Passive modules? Am I understanding this incorrectly? Will it be like infantry modules where the armor repper will passively repair armor over time? The only active modules are: Shield/Armor hardeners, shield boosters and damage amplifiers (also afterburners and such) As a punishment for Madrugars having broken reps since Chromo. But yes, it will be like infantry armor repairers. Always active, slow trickle. Cool. Do you think this will balance the Shield vs. Armor debacle in terms of vehicles? The Sinwarden

GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 604	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:13:00 - [41] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Cool. Do you think this will balance the Shield vs. Armor debacle in terms of vehicles? Debateable. Honestly, the current meta prevents shield tnaks from fulfilling their alleged primary role as hit and run specialists. The new meta appears to be that shield tanks, running missiles, will be able to output massive amounts of damage in a short amount of time, and have an actual booster to keep them in combat just long enough to destroy their target. Will they be able to escape after? That will come down to tanker skill and if AV has decided to be smart or not. It also depends on if there is a proper visual clue to the status of a tanks modules. If you can tell accurately when they have hardeners on or not, then they will be much easier to counter. More questions than answers at this point. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1007	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:14:00 - [42] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Stop sounding like a whiny little baby for starters, or are you just hoping for trolls? The swarm nerf was a little too much, they didn't need both a range AND damage nerf, 1 would have been sufficent. The swarm nerf was not too much. Swarms were the only weapon to gain +50% damage from standard to proto, and their range allowed for far too many invisible shots. Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. The current scheme would be equivalent to the stinger doing more damage than the RPG in BF. People would justifiably rage at catering to people who cannot handle the basics of aiming a ballistic object. You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them. 1) A stinger would do so much more damage than an RPG, just sayin Now as for this GeneralButtNaked wrote: You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them. I agree, but I think our opinions differ. You see I think the the Launcher range nerf was more than enough, prehaps a little damage to account for changes in HAV health sure. The swarm launcher would have changed completly, it would only be capable of engaging enemy vehicles from within it's current theatre of battle. Now at range of 140 you aren't exactly going to last long as an AVer if the tank has brought infantry. The range nerf stopped you being able to outrange infantry by so much, what you would see is swarm launchers become a niche weapon, where they would be used, most often by commando suits, to significantly shorten the wave of oppurtunity of tanks. Hell, you could nerf the range to within a 100m, as long as you kept the damage. But with both, you have an AV with minimal damage, too strong to become infantry, to weak to really beat vehicles, so what? If we don't have a heavy on a roof, which you all want nerfed, or a tank we are pretty much *****! I mean come on, through out the time I (personally) have tried to cut tankers a bit of slack, but when the shoe is on the other foot . . . . . . . The pen is mightier than the sword* The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 495	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:17:00 - [43] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Cool. Do you think this will balance the Shield vs. Armor debacle in terms of vehicles? Debateable. Honestly, the current meta prevents shield tnaks from fulfilling their alleged primary role as hit and run specialists. The new meta appears to be that shield tanks, running missiles, will be able to output massive amounts of damage in a short amount of time, and have an actual booster to keep them in combat just long enough to destroy their target. Will they be able to escape after? That will come down to tanker skill and if AV has decided to be smart or not. It also depends on if there is a proper visual clue to the status of a tanks modules. If you can tell accurately when they have hardeners on or not, then they will be much easier to counter. More questions than answers at this point. Aren't there already visual markers for active modules on tanks? The "Aura" (for lack of a better word) that it makes when tanks have hardeners/reppers on (which I think share the same visuals) as well as Blue auras for shield boosters etc Since active armor repairers are gone next patch wouldnt the current visuals suffice? The Sinwarden
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:19:00 - [44] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: Why not? Half the job of AV is repelling the tank. It's not going to move forward if I hit it at that range, but it's close enough to where a specialized tank to take AV-me out. So you want tankers to spec into rails, just so they can spam shots at something they can't see? All because you are not good enough to kill a tank when they can see you? Yeah, typical AV, no concern for balance, they just want to be able to destroy vehicles without risk. lolwut? I'm butthurt that lasers and ScR kill me all the time, but I haven't speced into armor because I'm stubborn. Therefore, lasers and ScR should be nerfed. See the problem? Repel and destroy are not the same thing. I think I've destroyed maybe one tank in PC. Most of the tanks I fire swarms at immediately retreat, putting it out of action for X amount of time. Then I turn around and die to the guy using an AR. That's how it should be. It's true that the range on the SL was too long, but 175 meters seems extreme. Did you miss the part where I'm fine the damage nerf? The not logic bomb!
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 1	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:25:00 - [45] - Quote One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher?? PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT??????
skippy678 F.T.U. 129	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:26:00 - [46] - Quote Nobody seems to realize that the goal is balancing. IF your dropship/tank is indestructable they will nerf it. They want the fight to be even...unlike the vehicle crowd...you will pop...nd on the day that 1.7 comes out and all the crap talking blows up in your face Ill be here to post about it. And if ....just if...vehices are indestructable ...i will like it better because the nerf hammer will rebalance on the popping easy side again...and maybe stay there. good tankers will last and bad tankers will pop...I am mostly looking out for a few vet's dumping a respec into tanks giving the senior guys a run for there money(wich im sure they would enjoy.. and dude who says its 1 million sp to make an AV fit...your slow.. 1mill swarm operation 1.5 swarm proficiency 1 mil for dmage mods + at least a million for an advanced suit my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob. U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 230	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:27:00 - [47] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do. The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor. Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile. If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial. Using a PLC for AV does not need skill it does need a wonder to work. And even Swarms need some sort of skill if you consider how dumb these rockets are or how difficult it is to lock on the right target. And you really believe it takes skill to run a tank when there is no offense other than a another tank? Right now you can have quite interesting battles if a good AV meets a good Tanker, bad AV gets killed by even medicore Tankers and the other way round. Regarding the ISK argument you all know that ISK is not a balancing factor otherwise a free fit should never be able to drop a 150K Protosuit.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:28:00 - [48] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Stop sounding like a whiny little baby for starters, or are you just hoping for trolls? The swarm nerf was a little too much, they didn't need both a range AND damage nerf, 1 would have been sufficent. The swarm nerf was not too much. Swarms were the only weapon to gain +50% damage from standard to proto, and their range allowed for far too many invisible shots. Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. The current scheme would be equivalent to the stinger doing more damage than the RPG in BF. People would justifiably rage at catering to people who cannot handle the basics of aiming a ballistic object. You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them. 1) A stinger would do so much more damage than an RPG, just sayin Now as for this GeneralButtNaked wrote: You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them. I agree, but I think our opinions differ. You see I think the the Launcher range nerf was more than enough, prehaps a little damage to account for changes in HAV health sure. The swarm launcher would have changed completly, it would only be capable of engaging enemy vehicles from within it's current theatre of battle. Now at range of 140 you aren't exactly going to last long as an AVer if the tank has brought infantry. The range nerf stopped you being able to outrange infantry by so much, what you would see is swarm launchers become a niche weapon, where they would be used, most often by commando suits, to significantly shorten the wave of oppurtunity of tanks. Hell, you could nerf the range to within a 100m, as long as you kept the damage. But with both, you have an AV with minimal damage, too strong to become infantry, to weak to really beat vehicles, so what? If we don't have a heavy on a roof, which you all want nerfed, or a tank we are pretty much ******! I mean come on, through out the time I (personally) have tried to cut tankers a bit of slack, but when the shoe is on the other foot . . . . . . . Just because a stinger would do more damage in real life, does not make it good for game balance. And game balance is what we are after. If we start trying to apply realism to a game set in another galaxy, far in the future, it just gets absurd. As to the rest, I want the heavy suit to be the primary AV role. I think FG should be the go to weapon for AV, followed by the PLC, then swarms and AV nades. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 495	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:31:00 - [49] - Quote skippy678 wrote: my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob. Tanks cost upwards of 800k, almost a Mil. I dont tank but I do reimburse my tankers, so I would know. The Sinwarden
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:32:00 - [50] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: lolwut? I'm butthurt that lasers and ScR kill me all the time, but I haven't speced into armor because I'm stubborn. Therefore, lasers and ScR should be nerfed. See the problem? Repel and destroy are not the same thing. I think I've destroyed maybe one tank in PC. Most of the tanks I fire swarms at immediately retreat, putting it out of action for X amount of time. Then I turn around and die to the guy using an AR. That's how it should be. It's true that the range on the SL was too long, but 175 meters seems extreme. Did you miss the part where I'm fine the damage nerf? Clearly you were not around for when your corp was fighting zion in the start of PC, when you would put two forgers and a swarmer on top of the towers on the production facility. You haven't said how 175m is extreme though. Is it because you will actually have to get within visual range(maybe)? Or is it because the shorter range will help to eliminate the long range scrub swarming from towers? Or is it because you will no longer be able to be beyond the visual range of everything except for a sniper? I mean, it isn't like you still won't be able to hop around and spam shots from behind cover, so I don't know why you guys are freaking out. You will still be able to scrub it up, just you will have to be closer. Mr. Hybrid Vayu

Saxbrin Shain Ivory Vanguard 91	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:35:00 - [51] - Quote poison Diego wrote: I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank? let me tell you that the assault forgeguns are enough pain in the anus I've removed the fluff. You're an idiot.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1163	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:37:00 - [52] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do. The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor. Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile. If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial. If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2229	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:37:00 - [53] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then?
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2229	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:39:00 - [54] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: lolwut? I'm butthurt that lasers and ScR kill me all the time, but I haven't speced into armor because I'm stubborn. Therefore, lasers and ScR should be nerfed. See the problem? Repel and destroy are not the same thing. I think I've destroyed maybe one tank in PC. Most of the tanks I fire swarms at immediately retreat, putting it out of action for X amount of time. Then I turn around and die to the guy using an AR. That's how it should be. It's true that the range on the SL was too long, but 175 meters seems extreme. Did you miss the part where I'm fine the damage nerf? Clearly you were not around for when your corp was fighting zion in the start of PC, when you would put two forgers and a swarmer on top of the towers on the production facility. You haven't said how 175m is extreme though. Is it because you will actually have to get within visual range(maybe)? Or is it because the shorter range will help to eliminate the long range scrub swarming from towers? Or is it because you will no longer be able to be beyond the visual range of everything except for a sniper? I mean, it isn't like you still won't be able to hop around and spam shots from behind cover, so I don't know why you guys are freaking out. You will still be able to scrub it up, just you will have to be closer. The limited range makes us useless vs dropships not against tanks. Most of the time I go vs tanks its usually within 200m.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:40:00 - [55] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Using a PLC for AV does not need skill it does need a wonder to work. And even Swarms need some sort of skill if you consider how dumb these rockets are or how difficult it is to lock on the right target. And you really believe it takes skill to run a tank when there is no offense other than a another tank? Right now you can have quite interesting battles if a good AV meets a good Tanker, bad AV gets killed by even medicore Tankers and the other way round. Regarding the ISK argument you all know that ISK is not a balancing factor otherwise a free fit should never be able to drop a 150K Protosuit. I've been saying that the PLC needs a buff for a very long time. Commensurate with the skill required to use it. Every tank in the game is soloable by good AV. I know this because I have a prof 5 forge, and proto grenades. All I need to do is call in a LAV, go for a drive, and the tank dies. Who it is doesn't matter, because I can assure their destruction by myself. 3x Lai dais and a forge shot to the ass will rip any armor tank. Two allotek fluxes and a forge shot will kill any shield tank. Might need a third flux for those who run 8000 shield missile boats. Right now, against a determined AV person who has any sense, the question is a matter of how long will the tank survive. Never is it a question of will they be able to kill the tank. As to if it takes skill to run a tank, the answer is of course it does, if you want to make a profit, and not die a whole lot. If you think other wise, pay for the tanks, and I will laugh as you get popped over and over. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:42:00 - [56] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then? deal less damage than the PLC. Buff the PLC. Why is this like pulling teeth? Mr. Hybrid Vayu
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:45:00 - [57] - Quote skippy678 wrote: and dude who says its 1 million sp to make an AV fit...your slow.. 1mill swarm operation 1.5 swarm proficiency 1 mil for dmage mods + at least a million for an advanced suit my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob. 150k for prereqs. 610k to get proto swarms 610k for complex damage mods MLT Minmatar medium frame That is all you need right now to be a fearsome threat to all vehicles. Also, advanced suits cost 800k, not a million. You don't need prof to put in work versus armor tanks, which are pretty much the standard right now. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2229	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:46:00 - [58] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then? deal less damage than the PLC. Buff the PLC. Why is this like pulling teeth? Because your saying that a weapon should be quite obviously better then another in every way that's important. That is not balancing. That is called buffing an UP weapon to useable state an making another weapon UP in comparison making swarms the worst choice in AV. Why would anyone use swarms if there is quite obviously weapons that are much more effective in almost every way
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1188	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:47:00 - [59] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: skippy678 wrote: and dude who says its 1 million sp to make an AV fit...your slow.. 1mill swarm operation 1.5 swarm proficiency 1 mil for dmage mods + at least a million for an advanced suit my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob. 150k for prereqs. 610k to get proto swarms 610k for complex damage mods MLT Minmatar medium frame That is all you need right now to be a fearsome threat to all vehicles. Also, advanced suits cost 800k, not a million. You don't need prof to put in work versus armor tanks, which are pretty much the standard right now. i like the part where he says tht's more than my tank. Lol. the turret alone is 1 million isk. O_O and deals less damage than ur weapon. Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1163	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:48:00 - [60] - Quote poison Diego wrote: One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher?? PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT?????? Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2231	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:49:00 - [61] - Quote Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher?? PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT?????? Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly. I can agree standard swarms are pretty useless but advanced swarms are good.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4162	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:50:00 - [62] - Quote Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher?? PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT?????? Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly. Because they (PRO Swarms) were given out in 50 increments for events....stupid and pointless with reduced skill reqs to use. Why wouldn't you skills into them? Where were the 50 maddies or gunlogis I should have gotten from events? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:53:00 - [63] - Quote Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:55:00 - [64] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Aren't there already visual markers for active modules on tanks? The "Aura" (for lack of a better word) that it makes when tanks have hardeners/reppers on (which I think share the same visuals) as well as Blue auras for shield boosters etc Since active armor repairers are gone next patch wouldnt the current visuals suffice? The current pattern is very hard to see at range. Almost impossible. Back in Chromo, early uprising, tanks used to light up, bright as all get out when they turned the hardeners on. It used to be the surefire sign that the shield tanker in front of you was an idiot when you say him hit the hardeners. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:56:00 - [65] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Clearly you were not around for when your corp was fighting zion in the start of PC, when you would put two forgers and a swarmer on top of the towers on the production facility. You haven't said how 175m is extreme though. Is it because you will actually have to get within visual range(maybe)? Or is it because the shorter range will help to eliminate the long range scrub swarming from towers? Or is it because you will no longer be able to be beyond the visual range of everything except for a sniper? I mean, it isn't like you still won't be able to hop around and spam shots from behind cover, so I don't know why you guys are freaking out. You will still be able to scrub it up, just you will have to be closer. No, I was burnt out on multiplayer games and went on a Metal Gear marathon instead at the time PC released. And I did state why it was extreme, because I would hardly repel takes anymore and, as Kane Fyea said, how am I suppose to to destroy dropships? The not logic bomb!
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4162	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:56:00 - [66] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. Agreed... all PLC users I had the honour to playing with had immense skills and made other AR players look like jokes. SL....no skill at all, fire and forget. Positioning is part of using the weapon it is not skill, to have clear line of sight is a must have for any weapon same for tanks, the only weapon related skill comes in the aiming and the SL does that for you..... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 366	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:58:00 - [67] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: [quote=skippy678] 150k for prereqs. 610k to get proto swarms 610k for complex damage mods MLT Minmatar medium frame That is all you need right now to be a fearsome threat to all vehicles. Also, advanced suits cost 800k, not a million. You don't need prof to put in work versus armor tanks, which are pretty much the standard right now. here is the thing, are you comparing THAT AV SP to full tankers SP, or to equal tankers SP? As having done AV & Tanks since replication, even through changes can give some insight. I haven't played Dust in months b/c it is trash; but insight none the less .... For a REAL AV'er (who goes into match in squad or will suicide to get his fit and purpose it to destroy to zone out the tanker), you will need more then you listed SP, you'll need: 150k into light weapons 620k inro swarms say 150k into swarm proff ~3-4M to a proto suit 620k damage mods 150k adv nanos 3M for max CPU & PG im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 605	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:58:00 - [68] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then? deal less damage than the PLC. Buff the PLC. Why is this like pulling teeth? Because your saying that a weapon should be quite obviously better then another in every way that's important. That is not balancing. That is called buffing an UP weapon to useable state an making another weapon UP in comparison making swarms the worst choice in AV. Why would anyone use swarms if there is quite obviously weapons that are much more effective in almost every way The swarms benefit will be longer range than the PLC, at the expense of damage. Plus, you know, that whole lock on, fire and forget thing. So if you want to get a hit, go swarms, if you want to kill, go PLC/FG. The reason why swarms should be the first choice for new players is ease of use. Then they should quickly realize that you can get much more power by going with one of the harder to use weapons. It helps to enforce progression, and propels people into more rewarding and powerful styles of play. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 606	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:04:00 - [69] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt There is a fundamental difference though: If you had 2 million SP, you can make a viable AV fit. It won't be the best, but it will certainly put a whole world of hurt into vehicles. It will be effective against all vehicles. If you try and make a 2 million SP tank, you will get destroyed super fast everytime you call it out. No doubt about it. There is no survival chance for a low SP tanker. Keep in mind that that threshold is about to go way up with the extra turret SP sinks, so expect that SP minimum to jump drastically. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2231	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:05:00 - [70] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then? deal less damage than the PLC. Buff the PLC. Why is this like pulling teeth? Because your saying that a weapon should be quite obviously better then another in every way that's important. That is not balancing. That is called buffing an UP weapon to useable state an making another weapon UP in comparison making swarms the worst choice in AV. Why would anyone use swarms if there is quite obviously weapons that are much more effective in almost every way The swarms benefit will be longer range than the PLC, at the expense of damage. Plus, you know, that whole lock on, fire and forget thing. So if you want to get a hit, go swarms, if you want to kill, go PLC/FG. The reason why swarms should be the first choice for new players is ease of use. Then they should quickly realize that you can get much more power by going with one of the harder to use weapons. It helps to enforce progression, and propels people into more rewarding and powerful styles of play. Wow long range and lock on how cool especially when I find out I can't destroy anything with my prototype weapon (Which I've spent over 2 mill sp on) but militia tanks (Or dumbass standard tanks) and LAVs. Sounds like lots of fun. Don't worry I'll just use my forge gun if this is how CCPs thinking. The forge gun is easier to use in my opinion anyways plus I'll actually have a chance at killing any infantry trying to kill me.

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 232	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:11:00 - [71] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players. PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms. Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then? deal less damage than the PLC. Buff the PLC. Why is this like pulling teeth? Because your saying that a weapon should be quite obviously better then another in every way that's important. That is not balancing. That is called buffing an UP weapon to useable state an making another weapon UP in comparison making swarms the worst choice in AV. Why would anyone use swarms if there is quite obviously weapons that are much more effective in almost every way The swarms benefit will be longer range than the PLC, at the expense of damage. Plus, you know, that whole lock on, fire and forget thing. So if you want to get a hit, go swarms, if you want to kill, go PLC/FG. The reason why swarms should be the first choice for new players is ease of use. Then they should quickly realize that you can get much more power by going with one of the harder to use weapons. It helps to enforce progression, and propels people into more rewarding and powerful styles of play. I totally agree that the PLC should be more powerfull than swarms but nerfing swarms to archieve that is wrong now we have two useless AV weapons instead of one. Honestly I think the PLC should be some sort of short range forge (a forge shotgun ^^) but we get some sort of a one shot super massdriver.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 606	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:12:00 - [72] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Wow long range and lock on how cool especially when I find out I can't destroy anything with my prototype weapon (Which I've spent over 2 mill sp on) but militia tanks (Or dumbass standard tanks) and LAVs. Sounds like lots of fun. Don't worry I'll just use my forge gun if this is how CCPs thinking. The forge gun is easier to use in my opinion anyways plus I'll actually have a chance at killing any infantry trying to kill me. Range and tracking are not enough of a benefit you need high damage to go with it? Yep, you just made the list of scrubs. FFS people, this is not rocket science. If you want the weapon system to do the work for you, then you don't deserve high alpha damage. If you want to do the work of aiming, then the reward is more alpha damage. But congratulations on growing up and going FG, now you can learn to actually aim an AV weapon and then you can get off the scrub list. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2232	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:20:00 - [73] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Wow long range and lock on how cool especially when I find out I can't destroy anything with my prototype weapon (Which I've spent over 2 mill sp on) but militia tanks (Or dumbass standard tanks) and LAVs. Sounds like lots of fun. Don't worry I'll just use my forge gun if this is how CCPs thinking. The forge gun is easier to use in my opinion anyways plus I'll actually have a chance at killing any infantry trying to kill me. Range and tracking are not enough of a benefit you need high damage to go with it? Yep, you just made the list of scrubs. FFS people, this is not rocket science. If you want the weapon system to do the work for you, then you don't deserve high alpha damage. If you want to do the work of aiming, then the reward is more alpha damage. But congratulations on growing up and going FG, now you can learn to actually aim an AV weapon and then you can get off the scrub list. No but I want to be somewhat useful. Where were going in 1.7 will make swarms useless against dropships and a lot less effective vs lavs. It won't effect my battles vs tanks much except for the damage nerf which I think was necessary but also nerfing the range by over 55% is just fking ridiculous. Also how about you go and try to damage a tank when they have infantry support. It's quite hard thanks to swarms having practically no defenses plus I die in under a second to ars. Also I've been specced into the forge gun since chromosome (I've been specced into swarms since the E3 build I believe) I just don't like heavy suits.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz 510	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:20:00 - [74] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Wow long range and lock on how cool especially when I find out I can't destroy anything with my prototype weapon (Which I've spent over 2 mill sp on) but militia tanks (Or dumbass standard tanks) and LAVs. Sounds like lots of fun. Don't worry I'll just use my forge gun if this is how CCPs thinking. The forge gun is easier to use in my opinion anyways plus I'll actually have a chance at killing any infantry trying to kill me. Range and tracking are not enough of a benefit you need high damage to go with it? Yep, you just made the list of scrubs. FFS people, this is not rocket science. If you want the weapon system to do the work for you, then you don't deserve high alpha damage. If you want to do the work of aiming, then the reward is more alpha damage. But congratulations on growing up and going FG, now you can learn to actually aim an AV weapon and then you can get off the scrub list. Entire argument made obsolete by Aim Assisted ARs. Remind me when Forge Guns are accessible to Medium and Light Frames. Until then, they will be doing nothing to Dropships, and will be relying on Remote Explosives to take out other vehicles.
Evolution-7 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 197	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:21:00 - [75] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible explain...? Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
Evolution-7 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 197	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:24:00 - [76] - Quote poison Diego wrote: I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank? let me tell you that the assault forgeguns are enough pain in the anus without you jumping ants running around my tank or sitting way over in the redline packing a 2100 damage punch 4 times with that silly little toy of yours... and then you trow these bloody tracking germain hand grenades, and of course they do about 1500 damage EACH. If you dont think that its unfair that you only need one ant to sneak up to a tank, put a good nanohive down, thow a few av grenades, then when the tank tries to make a run for it (unexpectedly) the ant pull out his way overpowered wiryrkomi swarm luncher and drains the last scraps of his armour. and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k? You have to relize that you are not the only ones getting nerfed... Tankers are going to be nerfed to the dust to. Try to imagine the galliente logistics with 3 lows instead of 5... You would laugh right? oh WOW we get 400 more armour!! that just made my day! If you would give galliente logistics 40 more armour and take 2 low modules away then first we would hear people rage for real. Just please take all the low and high slots away ccp! appearantly we dont need them. Please just stop this bullshit that tanks are going to be overpowered. just think about it, I think that 600k-1m isk should be more op than one 100k suit though the aren-¦t. Im sorry, maybe I am the only one that thinks that? They are doing this to make way for std,adv, pro vehicles. Veteran Pilot "Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart."
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 606	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:36:00 - [77] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Entire argument made obsolete by Aim Assisted ARs. Remind me when Forge Guns are accessible to Medium and Light Frames. Until then, they will be doing nothing to Dropships, and will be relying on Remote Explosives to take out other vehicles. Do AR rounds bend to hit their target? Why does a medium frame need a powerful, long range, tracking AV weapon? Why is that the way to go for people? Heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. It should have the strongest weapons, the best defenses, and the greatest ability to withstand a vehicular assault. The issue here seems to be that people want AV without having to spec out of their current fit. Ahh the stuggle of the medium frames. If they can't do everything as well or better than every other frame, they scream unfair. Don't worry Justin, I am sure you will still be able to find rooftops to mass drive off of. Because that is all pro. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 403	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:38:00 - [78] - Quote The most frustrating thing is when a tank one shots you while your trying to swarm them and then when you are reloading from an already nerfed clip size. I will never use AV again because the balance of the encounter is so imbalanced. Let other tanks kill tanks for all I care. I'll stay out of your way. You can't hack an objective, you can't drop ammo, you can't rep me. Thus in a battle you're useless as far as logistics go and in tight city maps you're irrelevant. Thus you can roll around all day long and it wouldn't bother me. My squad doesn't even bother with tanks anymore. Director (Management) D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4162	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:40:00 - [79] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: The most frustrating thing is when a tank one shots you while your trying to swarm them and then when you are reloading from an already nerfed clip size. I will never use AV again because the balance of the encounter is so imbalanced. Let other tanks kill tanks for all I care. I'll stay out of your way. You can't hack an objective, you can't drop ammo, you can't rep me. Thus in a battle you're useless as far as logistics go and in tight city maps you're irrelevant. Thus you can roll around all day long and it wouldn't bother me. My squad doesn't even bother with tanks anymore. Sweet, I wont shoot at you if you don't shoot are me, I just want to fight other tanks anyway. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2233	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:43:00 - [80] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Entire argument made obsolete by Aim Assisted ARs. Remind me when Forge Guns are accessible to Medium and Light Frames. Until then, they will be doing nothing to Dropships, and will be relying on Remote Explosives to take out other vehicles. Do AR rounds bend to hit their target? Why does a medium frame need a powerful, long range, tracking AV weapon? Why is that the way to go for people? Heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. It should have the strongest weapons, the best defenses, and the greatest ability to withstand a vehicular assault. The issue here seems to be that people want AV without having to spec out of their current fit. Ahh the stuggle of the medium frames. If they can't do everything as well or better than every other frame, they scream unfair. Don't worry Justin, I am sure you will still be able to find rooftops to mass drive off of. Because that is all pro. Please tell me why the heavy suit should be the primary AV unit. Give me a reasonable explanation other then "Because I said so".

Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 367	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:44:00 - [81] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Berserker007 wrote: im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt There is a fundamental difference though: If you had 2 million SP, you can make a viable AV fit. It won't be the best, but it will certainly put a whole world of hurt into vehicles. It will be effective against all vehicles. If you try and make a 2 million SP tank, you will get destroyed super fast everytime you call it out. No doubt about it. There is no survival chance for a low SP tanker. Keep in mind that that threshold is about to go way up with the extra turret SP sinks, so expect that SP minimum to jump drastically. all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1188	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:51:00 - [82] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Berserker007 wrote: im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt There is a fundamental difference though: If you had 2 million SP, you can make a viable AV fit. It won't be the best, but it will certainly put a whole world of hurt into vehicles. It will be effective against all vehicles. If you try and make a 2 million SP tank, you will get destroyed super fast everytime you call it out. No doubt about it. There is no survival chance for a low SP tanker. Keep in mind that that threshold is about to go way up with the extra turret SP sinks, so expect that SP minimum to jump drastically. all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple this is BS. wat was he doing shooting the sky? or was he already damaged by av before hand and his modules were down. and 2 swarmers killed me with all my modules on. it took them 6 shots. full proto swarms maxed out damage. literally 6 seconds. and how do u know they had 10 mil in tanking. who were they? u expect me or anyone to believe u beat a maxed out tank with 3 swarms helping him. seriously? no one could possibly believe this. even if this were true there would have had to been another factor u are not stating. Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 69	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:56:00 - [83] - Quote Dedicated AV here and I say there is nothing wrong with a bit of a challenge. I hope to see more tanks on the field actually.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4163	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:57:00 - [84] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Berserker007 wrote: im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt There is a fundamental difference though: If you had 2 million SP, you can make a viable AV fit. It won't be the best, but it will certainly put a whole world of hurt into vehicles. It will be effective against all vehicles. If you try and make a 2 million SP tank, you will get destroyed super fast everytime you call it out. No doubt about it. There is no survival chance for a low SP tanker. Keep in mind that that threshold is about to go way up with the extra turret SP sinks, so expect that SP minimum to jump drastically. all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple That is BS, may main used to be like that. You cannot take out a higher tier tanker worth his salt while under AV fire. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
poison Diego NECROM0NGERS 1	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:58:00 - [85] - Quote Atiim wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do. The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor. Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile. If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial. If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. Ok, I will admit that it will not be easy to be AV when the range will be nerfed but you can not say it is easy to be a tanker when you are not fighting total scrups who shoot at the tank with AR and throw grenades at you. I will do much better solo in an adv logi suit than in a tank against a good squad. Not because I am a bad tanker, its because eather a swarm, forge gun or both is denying me the whole match. so I would have to recall or hide.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 607	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:01:00 - [86] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple Beat Caeli straight up, beta Noc the same way. Slap I never played against, same with alldin. Once destroyed Exmaple 7 times in a pub. Thanks for your non relevant and BS story, because there is no way your story is factual. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz 510	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:02:00 - [87] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Entire argument made obsolete by Aim Assisted ARs. Remind me when Forge Guns are accessible to Medium and Light Frames. Until then, they will be doing nothing to Dropships, and will be relying on Remote Explosives to take out other vehicles. Do AR rounds bend to hit their target? Why does a medium frame need a powerful, long range, tracking AV weapon? Why is that the way to go for people? Heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. It should have the strongest weapons, the best defenses, and the greatest ability to withstand a vehicular assault. The issue here seems to be that people want AV without having to spec out of their current fit. Ahh the stuggle of the medium frames. If they can't do everything as well or better than every other frame, they scream unfair. Don't worry Justin, I am sure you will still be able to find rooftops to mass drive off of. Because that is all pro. Oooh, someone's butthurt about Assault Mass Drivers denying an area. And you're right, without swarms to worry about, I can easily get elevation to use my weapon in optimal. Blues won't survive. They will be 2-shotted at worst by vehicles they can't touch. This change does nothing but reward 10+million SP players that are already done customizing their 1 suit to skill into another suit. Telling players "Skill into Heavies in order to be able to deal with AV before you skill into the stuff you really want" doesn't promote anything but grinding.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 607	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:11:00 - [88] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Please tell me why the heavy suit should be the primary AV unit. Give me a reasonable explanation other then "Because I said so". The heavy frame, like the vehicle it fights, has limitations. It has vulnerabilities. It requires support, just like the tank. It has the HP to actually get in a fight with a tank and get away. And it has what should be the best AV weapon in the forge. Greater range, greater damage, with a trade off in mobility. It also requires infantry support if it intends to perform the AV role long term, as opposed to the self contained logi running hives, proxi mines, and a scanner for self protection. You want to smash vehicles, make some sacrifices, instead of keeping your high utility infantry suit just needing to make a single change to become the beast AV suit. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4163	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:13:00 - [89] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Please tell me why the heavy suit should be the primary AV unit. Give me a reasonable explanation other then "Because I said so". The heavy frame, like the vehicle it fights, has limitations. It has vulnerabilities. It requires support, just like the tank. It has the HP to actually get in a fight with a tank and get away. And it has what should be the best AV weapon in the forge. Greater range, greater damage, with a trade off in mobility. It also requires infantry support if it intends to perform the AV role long term, as opposed to the self contained logi running hives, proxi mines, and a scanner for self protection. You want to smash vehicles, make some sacrifices, instead of keeping your high utility infantry suit just needing to make a single change to become the beast AV suit. I figure its the biggest suit, should get the biggest guns, and hunt the biggest targets. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:14:00 - [90] - Quote Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: Atiim wrote: They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself. What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers. Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs. And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting. so you are saying that only well known and famous tankers should tank because they are not as hard to kill? that ridiculous!! thats like saying if logis aren-¦t doing theyr job fx repairing armour, providing ammo and reviving they shouldn't play as logistic. Then the logistic would vanish from dust514. And what I think is that solo players shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily at all unless like those paper-somas or very idiotic tankers. No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive. Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV. The best rivals the best, and only the best. This guy honestly thinks handheld weapons = best AV. Please don't AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.

GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 607	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:14:00 - [91] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Oooh, someone's butthurt about Assault Mass Drivers denying an area. And you're right, without swarms to worry about, I can easily get elevation to use my weapon in optimal. Blues won't survive. They will be 2-shotted at worst by vehicles they can't touch. This change does nothing but reward 10+million SP players that are already done customizing their 1 suit to skill into another suit. Telling players "Skill into Heavies in order to be able to deal with AV before you skill into the stuff you really want" doesn't promote anything but grinding. By vehicles they can't touch? Swarms out range blasters, and missiles are not exactly the most precise weapons at range, so your statement is not borne out by the facts. People still have medium frame options. The just are not optimal. For that you need a heavy frame. So if you want to specialize as AV, go heavy. If you want an acceptable deterrent to vehicles, swarms and AV nades will do you just fine. Heaven forbid the medium frame not excel at everything. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:17:00 - [92] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: poison Diego wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. There is always someone out there so naive.... my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard. Recently my most liked post was countering this very point. I could just as easily say that a tanker can roll into a group of enemies and kill them all, as long as he can activate his reppers & get out when his HP gets low. Of course I'd only say that if I had no idea what I was talking about. You can say whatever you want... all that matters is who has the more supported and logical argument. AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:19:00 - [93] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: skippy678 wrote: my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob. Tanks cost upwards of 800k, almost a Mil. I dont tank but I do reimburse my tankers, so I would know. The Vayus that I was running last night were costing me 2.4 mil a pop AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz 510	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:31:00 - [94] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Oooh, someone's butthurt about Assault Mass Drivers denying an area. And you're right, without swarms to worry about, I can easily get elevation to use my weapon in optimal. Blues won't survive. They will be 2-shotted at worst by vehicles they can't touch. This change does nothing but reward 10+million SP players that are already done customizing their 1 suit to skill into another suit. Telling players "Skill into Heavies in order to be able to deal with AV before you skill into the stuff you really want" doesn't promote anything but grinding. By vehicles they can't touch? Swarms out range blasters, and missiles are not exactly the most precise weapons at range, so your statement is not borne out by the facts. People still have medium frame options. The just are not optimal. For that you need a heavy frame. So if you want to specialize as AV, go heavy. If you want an acceptable deterrent to vehicles, swarms and AV nades will do you just fine. Heaven forbid the medium frame not excel at everything. 175m lock with Standard swarm damage is trash and you know it. You can't honestly be saying Dropships are worried at all about Swarms in 1.7. Someone said before, the range nerf puts you in Infantry range vs any other vehicle, and Medium Frame AV suits auto-lose to standard Infantry. The Forge Gun was the best AV weapon available to Infantry in the game before the nerf, and it is after nerf. Players always skilled into Heavies for the Assault Forge if they really wanted to get rid of vehicles. No one is saying that other AV options have to outclass Forge Gunners, but they have to have the ability to win in optimal, not deter, or there will be no point in skilling into it. "Deter" only means that opposing team has a numerical advantage, especially if it takes more than 1 person to deter.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 182	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:32:00 - [95] - Quote I have some prototype AV mines, and if I lay out 6 of them I can sometimes get a passing LAV. They say they do 750 damage (same as the standard ones), which might be slightly more effective now relatively speaking (swarm damage nerf). I have also tried using all the different tiers together, laying out 6 proto, 5 advanced, and 4 standard AV mines, and despite all that lag-inducing clutter, I've watched takes drive right over them. It's just silly when I carpet the road with 15 AV mines, and just as silly to see tanks cruise right over them without taking much noticeable damage. With the tankers being asked to use more hit+run tactics, mines may be more tactically useful, but even with the raw hp nerf, I doubt my lag pile will actually stop a tank. AV mines should be buffed a lot, and the number of active mines limited 1 std, 2adv, and 3pro - because of lag, and because I think 3 AV mines should be something a tank should worry about. An AV mine should kill a Soma or Sica - two if it has extenders. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:33:00 - [96] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Entire argument made obsolete by Aim Assisted ARs. Remind me when Forge Guns are accessible to Medium and Light Frames. Until then, they will be doing nothing to Dropships, and will be relying on Remote Explosives to take out other vehicles. Do AR rounds bend to hit their target? Why does a medium frame need a powerful, long range, tracking AV weapon? Why is that the way to go for people? Heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. It should have the strongest weapons, the best defenses, and the greatest ability to withstand a vehicular assault. The issue here seems to be that people want AV without having to spec out of their current fit. Ahh the stuggle of the medium frames. If they can't do everything as well or better than every other frame, they scream unfair. Don't worry Justin, I am sure you will still be able to find rooftops to mass drive off of. Because that is all pro. Please tell me why the heavy suit should be the primary AV unit. Give me a reasonable explanation other then "Because I said so". Uhhh, because there needs to be a reason to use it? Are you ***** ******? Do you not realize it makes trades to field better guns? Do you not understand? THERE ARE MORE FACTORS IN BALANCING OTHER THAN DAMAGE AND HEALTH AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 611	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:39:00 - [97] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: 175m lock with Standard swarm damage is trash and you know it. You can't honestly be saying Dropships are worried at all about Swarms in 1.7. Someone said before, the range nerf puts you in Infantry range vs any other vehicle, and Medium Frame AV suits auto-lose to standard Infantry. The Forge Gun was the best AV weapon available to Infantry in the game before the nerf, and it is after nerf. Players always skilled into Heavies for the Assault Forge if they really wanted to get rid of vehicles. No one is saying that other AV options have to outclass Forge Gunners, but they have to have the ability to win in optimal, not deter, or there will be no point in skilling into it. "Deter" only means that opposing team has a numerical advantage, especially if it takes more than 1 person to deter. No, I do not know that the range is insufficient, because I haven't played vs them yet. I also disagree that the FG is the best AV weapon right now. Currently, there is little reason to spec a FG unless you aim to be a heavy beyond just forging. Swarms do more damage, are longer range, and track to the target. They can also be equipped with more damage mods, can carry hives to resupply, and can jump better to avoid blaster fire. Additionally, they do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target. Oh yeah, and you don't need to spec into another frame to use it. So I disagree with your position that the FG is the best AV choice right now. Thankfully, the FG will be the prime choice in 1.7, as it should be. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1165	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:02:00 - [98] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Yes anyone can; my first time piloting an HAV made me go 23-12-0. Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. Because of the very thing you want removed, AV. Heck, CharCharOdell even made a thread about how she misses being able to go 30-0 with ease. I think it's called Tank Nostalgia? BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. A Forge Gun is so much more easier to use than a Swarm that it's funny. A 1-2 second charge time, a travel time faster than any vehicle can react to (except Scout LAVs, those things are scary fast with nitrous mods), and the ability to kill infantry. It's like AR users who say MDs are easy mode. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. If I said right now that I had 0 SP invested into HAVs, you'd be the first one to say, "well you don't use tanks so HTFU and get good". You don't use swarm launchers yet think your able to make an educated valuable, and non-biased opinion about them? Yeah anything you say about SLs from this point is null and void. Also, I have more SP invested into HAVs then I do AV atm. But that gap is slowly closing.... Slowly..... Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Does it look like I have 36 million dollars to give to someone who is probably going to hit up Cakeman and say "yeah I'm doing that video demonstration that Atiim asked me to do, you mind bringing out a $h!t fit for me"? (It's not like he wouldn't do that if you paid him). My wallet total isn't even 36 Million ISK. And If I take money from the corp wallet then I have to pay it back. Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Or maybe your just wrong. I could easily say HTFU and GET GOOD to the other tankers here but unlike you and most people in the LOLTank Brigade, I defend my points with facts and logic. Not "lol yeah this is easy mode you need to HTFU and get good scrub" followed by your typical, "No I don't need proof at all why would I use proof to try to prove you wrong"? Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. I'm worried about you. It's not healthy to laugh at yourself like that. And once again, you say that as if HAV piloting was hard Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:10:00 - [99] - Quote Atiim wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Yes anyone can; my first time piloting an HAV made me go 23-12-0. Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. Because of the very thing you want removed, AV. Heck, CharCharOdell even made a thread about how she misses being able to go 30-0 with ease. I think it's called Tank Nostalgia? BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. A Forge Gun is so much more easier to use than a Swarm that it's funny. A 1-2 second charge time, a travel time faster than any vehicle can react to (except Scout LAVs, those things are scary fast with nitrous mods), and the ability to kill infantry. It's like AR users who say MDs are easy mode. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. If I said right now that I had 0 SP invested into HAVs, you'd be the first one to say, "well you don't use tanks so HTFU and get good". You don't use swarm launchers yet think your able to make an educated valuable, and non-biased opinion about them? Yeah anything you say about SLs from this point is null and void. Also, I have more SP invested into HAVs then I do AV atm. But that gap is slowly closing.... Slowly..... Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Does it look like I have 36 million dollars to give to someone who is probably going to hit up Cakeman and say "yeah I'm doing that video demonstration that Atiim asked me to do, you mind bringing out a $h!t fit for me"? (It's not like he wouldn't do that if you paid him). My wallet total isn't even 36 Million ISK. And If I take money from the corp wallet then I have to pay it back. Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Or maybe your just wrong. I could easily say HTFU and GET GOOD to the other tankers here but unlike you and most people in the LOLTank Brigade, I defend my points with facts and logic. Not "lol yeah this is easy mode you need to HTFU and get good scrub" followed by your typical, "No I don't need proof at all why would I use proof to try to prove you wrong"? Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. I'm worried about you. It's not healthy to laugh at yourself like that. And once again, you say that as if HAV piloting was hard However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:10:00 - [100] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Swarms do more damage *Not against shields.* -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* -Track to the target *Again, they're also really slow compared to the FG* -They can also be equipped with more damage mods *For now. Watch what you say, you're the kind of person who is going to be super mad when the Caldari heavy frame comes out* -Can carry hives to resupply *True* -Can jump better to avoid blaster fire *Speed is a larger factor than jumping. Jumping has never saved me against a tank* -They do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target Yes they do. I've had swarms hit walls many times mostly because the tank hides behind a wall because swarms go so slow. Rockets have also hit walls because I don't have 70-¦ of open space. The FG can easily take advantage of small spaces. -Don't need to spec into another frame to use it. *True* The not logic bomb!

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:11:00 - [101] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: 175m lock with Standard swarm damage is trash and you know it. You can't honestly be saying Dropships are worried at all about Swarms in 1.7. Someone said before, the range nerf puts you in Infantry range vs any other vehicle, and Medium Frame AV suits auto-lose to standard Infantry. The Forge Gun was the best AV weapon available to Infantry in the game before the nerf, and it is after nerf. Players always skilled into Heavies for the Assault Forge if they really wanted to get rid of vehicles. No one is saying that other AV options have to outclass Forge Gunners, but they have to have the ability to win in optimal, not deter, or there will be no point in skilling into it. "Deter" only means that opposing team has a numerical advantage, especially if it takes more than 1 person to deter. No, I do not know that the range is insufficient, because I haven't played vs them yet. I also disagree that the FG is the best AV weapon right now. Currently, there is little reason to spec a FG unless you aim to be a heavy beyond just forging. Swarms do more damage, are longer range, and track to the target. They can also be equipped with more damage mods, can carry hives to resupply, and can jump better to avoid blaster fire. Additionally, they do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target. Oh yeah, and you don't need to spec into another frame to use it. So I disagree with your position that the FG is the best AV choice right now. Thankfully, the FG will be the prime choice in 1.7, as it should be. Forges are more than just AV. If I had a respec, then yeah I would pick FGs because I can forge gun snipe with them and if someone starts shooting me while I'm firing at the tank I actually have a chance of living. Swarms and Forge Guns do the exact same amount of damage. Maybe you should skill into them before making "assumptions" Yes, to lock on and fire at anything, we have to have a direct line of sight. That was patched in the same update that gave us the new maps. Forge Guns may not damage it at all, but they can go from MCC to MCC and still get hit markers. Swarms have a max of 400m if your lucky. You don't need to spec into another frame to use FGs either. There are MLT heavy suits. And everyone starts off with dropsuit command level 0. Meaning that they could easily become a heavy frame before being a medium frame. A swarm launcher has 2 clips worth of ammo. A forge gun has around 6. What's your point? A heavy may not be able to avoid blaster shots as well, but they have high HP and can easily survive to cover. A medium/light frame is dead when It gets ambushed by a blaster turret. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:18:00 - [102] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Swarms do more damage *Not against shields.* -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* -Track to the target *Again, they're also really slow compared to the FG* -They can also be equipped with more damage mods *For now. Watch what you say, you're the kind of person who is going to be super mad when the Caldari heavy frame comes out* -Can carry hives to resupply *True* -Can jump better to avoid blaster fire *Speed is a larger factor than jumping. Jumping has never saved me against a tank* -They do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target Yes they do. I've had swarms hit walls many times mostly because the tank hides behind a wall because swarms go so slow. Rockets have also hit walls because I don't have 70-¦ of open space. The FG can easily take advantage of small spaces. -Don't need to spec into another frame to use it. *True* Did you just say swarms are easy to see? *Face palms brains through back of head...slumps to the floor blood pumping from the gaping wound in his face..... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:21:00 - [103] - Quote True Adamance wrote: However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:26:00 - [104] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. All I think about AV is that fire and forget weapons should either be weak, or not fire and forget at all. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:31:00 - [105] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* Did you just say swarms are easy to see? Face palms brains through back of head...slumps to the floor blood pumping from the gaping wound in his face..... Easier to see You're right. Unfair on my part. I don't use vehicles and the only time I fear AV is when I'm a passenger (usually a dropship). I clearly see missiles coming my way, however, this is usually because I'm on a turret of said dropship. I wish I could shoot at the buggers. But when it comes to FG vs dropships: Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-, I don't stand a chance. The not logic bomb!
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:32:00 - [106] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. ????? Is this a visual glitch? The not logic bomb!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:35:00 - [107] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. All I think about AV is that fire and forget weapons should either be weak, or not fire and forget at all. Swarms are only fire and forget on maps like Manus Peak where you have a complete view of the battlefield. Not even then in most cases. If you decide to be a man and not AV from the redline then swarms are fire, crash into a wall, and then get gunned down by enemy infantry every time. I can cite many occasions of where my Swarms decided to glitch worse than giant MCC sized GEKs. Your point? Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 612	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:35:00 - [108] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Swarms do more damage *Not against shields.* -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* -Track to the target *Again, they're also really slow compared to the FG* -They can also be equipped with more damage mods *For now. Watch what you say, you're the kind of person who is going to be super mad when the Caldari heavy frame comes out* -Can carry hives to resupply *True* -Can jump better to avoid blaster fire *Speed is a larger factor than jumping. Jumping has never saved me against a tank* -They do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target Yes they do. I've had swarms hit walls many times mostly because the tank hides behind a wall because swarms go so slow. Rockets have also hit walls because I don't have 70-¦ of open space. The FG can easily take advantage of small spaces. -Don't need to spec into another frame to use it. *True* Swarms do more damage against armor tanks, the majority of tanks are armor. FG max range: 300m Swarm max range: 400m. Not debatable. Slow compared to the FG, sure, but they track to their target. Using an unreleased suit as a manner of saying swarms are not OP is asinine. If jumping has never saved you against a tank, that is because you are too far away for it too matter. When you are forging up close against a blaster, jumping is what saves you. Seeing many swarms take advantage of the lag to do the same. Just their jumps are bigger, and they have enough stamina to jump an extra time or two before they get immobile and easier to hit. My point about not needing direct line of sight to fire referred to being able to step out long enough to acquire a target, and then move back into cover to launch over it. Happens all the time. FG can't do that. They need direct LOS between themselves and the target if they want a hit. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:37:00 - [109] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. ????? Is this a visual glitch? Yes, this is a glitch that happens every once and a while. Most tankers like to believe that AV should be nerfed because of this as opposed to just fixing the glitch. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Monkey MAC killer taxi company 1008	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:38:00 - [110] - Quote Somebody-Who's-name-I-Forgot wrote: Just because a stinger would do more damage in real life, does not make it good for game balance. And game balance is what we are after. If we start trying to apply realism to a game set in another galaxy, far in the future, it just gets absurd. I know, I know, like I said Just Sayin Same-Guy wrote: As to the rest, I want the heavy suit to be the primary AV role. I think FG should be the go to weapon for AV, followed by the PLC, then swarms and AV nades. Well you see that's the thing, so long as there are light av weapons, av is gonna be whoever is closer to Suppku Depot, hut removing them would be bad formthe game. But Im not argue, so how about you and I agree to disagree and wait to see what happens? The pen is mightier than the sword The gun is mightier than both Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4167	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:39:00 - [111] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: True Adamance wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* Did you just say swarms are easy to see? Face palms brains through back of head...slumps to the floor blood pumping from the gaping wound in his face..... Easier to see You're right. Unfair on my part. I don't use vehicles and the only time I fear AV is when I'm a passenger (usually a dropship). I clearly see missiles coming my way, however, this is usually because I'm on a turret of said dropship. I wish I could shoot at the buggers. But when it comes to FG vs dropships: Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-, I don't stand a chance. They are invisible most of the time, and the rare times you do see them they are phasing through solid objects. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 612	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:44:00 - [112] - Quote Atiim wrote: Swarms are only fire and forget on maps like Manus Peak where you have a complete view of the battlefield. Not even then in most cases. If you decide to be a man and not AV from the redline then swarms are fire, crash into a wall, and then get gunned down by enemy infantry every time. I can cite many occasions of where my Swarms decided to glitch worse than giant MCC sized GEKs. Your point? Bad maps for swarmers to use there full 400m range on currently: Ashland Fracture Road Border Gulch Maps that allow for 400m engagements without issue: Spine crescent Line harvest Manus peak Border Gulch Iron Delta Skim Junction The funny thing is that even on the "bad" swarm maps, there are still multiple positions where swarms can be used to their full range, or at the least at a range vastly further than the HAV can see them at. Saying swarms are not even fire and forget on manus peak shows your bias. Buff the PLC, and make you swarm scrubs earn your kills. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:46:00 - [113] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Swarms do more damage against armor tanks, the majority of tanks are armor. FG max range: 300m Swarm max range: 400m. Not debatable. Slow compared to the FG, sure, but they track to their target. Using an unreleased suit as a manner of saying swarms are not OP is asinine. If jumping has never saved you against a tank, that is because you are too far away for it too matter. When you are forging up close against a blaster, jumping is what saves you. Seeing many swarms take advantage of the lag to do the same. Just their jumps are bigger, and they have enough stamina to jump an extra time or two before they get immobile and easier to hit. My point about not needing direct line of sight to fire referred to being able to step out long enough to acquire a target, and then move back into cover to launch over it. Happens all the time. FG can't do that. They need direct LOS between themselves and the target if they want a hit. QUIT LYING TO YOURSELF! Forge guns and Swarm Launchers have the same damage bonus to armor. And the fact that the majority of tanks are armor doesn't matter when they both have the same SP costs. That's like Gallente Assaults complaining about Mass Drivers or Caldari suits complaining about Flux Grenades. I'd love to see anyone try to get hit markers on a non-stationary tank while locking onto a vehicle at 400m. At that range the swarms will almost always crash into a wall or terrain. Forge Guns can charge while in cover, and then jump out of cover for half a second to fire at the tank. A Swarm has to jump out of cover keep a direct line of sight through the entire lock process and while firing. All while outside of cover to fire. A Forge Gun can kill dropsuits with splash damage, and a direct LOS is needed for a fraction of a second with a forge gun. You can charge behind cover, swarms cannot. And aiming is not hard at all on DS3. KB/M? LOL. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4167	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:48:00 - [114] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. All I think about AV is that fire and forget weapons should either be weak, or not fire and forget at all. Swarms are only fire and forget on maps like Manus Peak where you have a complete view of the battlefield. Not even then in most cases. If you decide to be a man and not AV from the redline then swarms are fire, crash into a wall, and then get gunned down by enemy infantry every time. I can cite many occasions of where my Swarms decided to glitch worse than giant MCC sized GEKs. Your point? That your anecdotal evidence is not more or less valuable or relevant to the discussion than mine is. That is my point. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 612	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:49:00 - [115] - Quote Atiim wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. ????? Is this a visual glitch? Yes, this is a glitch that happens every once and a while. Most tankers like to believe that AV should be nerfed because of this as opposed to just fixing the glitch. It doesn't happen once in awhile. It happens every single time the swarmer is outside of 150 m. It happens most of the time they are between 100-150. It happens occasionally closer than that. It is not a glitch, it is a design decision by CCP to reduce render distance to increase graphical fidelity. As a result, swarms NEEDED a nerf to not continue a paradigm where tankers can't see the swarms or the swarmer. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Ripcord19981 KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 263	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:05:00 - [116] - Quote poison Diego wrote: I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank? let me tell you that the assault forgeguns are enough pain in the anus without you jumping ants running around my tank or sitting way over in the redline packing a 2100 damage punch 4 times with that silly little toy of yours... and then you trow these bloody tracking germain hand grenades, and of course they do about 1500 damage EACH. If you dont think that its unfair that you only need one ant to sneak up to a tank, put a good nanohive down, thow a few av grenades, then when the tank tries to make a run for it (unexpectedly) the ant pull out his way overpowered wiryrkomi swarm luncher and drains the last scraps of his armour. and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k? You have to relize that you are not the only ones getting nerfed... Tankers are going to be nerfed to the dust to. Try to imagine the galliente logistics with 3 lows instead of 5... You would laugh right? oh WOW we get 400 more armour!! that just made my day! If you would give galliente logistics 40 more armour and take 2 low modules away then first we would hear people rage for real. Just please take all the low and high slots away ccp! appearantly we dont need them. Please just stop this bullshit that tanks are going to be overpowered. just think about it, I think that 600k-1m isk should be more op than one 100k suit though the aren-¦t. Im sorry, maybe I am the only one that thinks that? 600k isk? no wonder you get blown up. But i get what ur saying. I can only please one person per day. Today is not ur day, tomorrow doesn't look too bright either. Turkey sammich>taco
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz 510	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:09:00 - [117] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. ????? Is this a visual glitch? Yes, this is a glitch that happens every once and a while. Most tankers like to believe that AV should be nerfed because of this as opposed to just fixing the glitch. It doesn't happen once in awhile. It happens every single time the swarmer is outside of 150 m. It happens most of the time they are between 100-150. It happens occasionally closer than that. It is not a glitch, it is a design decision by CCP to reduce render distance to increase graphical fidelity. As a result, swarms NEEDED a nerf to not continue a paradigm where tankers can't see the swarms or the swarmer. Swarm users don't give a damn about tankers seeing the swarms all they care about is damage and range. And still, that's like complaining about not being able to see the Sniper when you get hit.
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:20:00 - [118] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Swarms do more damage against armor tanks, the majority of tanks are armor. *That's that tanker's fault* FG max range: 300m Swarm max range: 400m. Not debatable. Again, I'm the guy who thinks the range nerf was necessary, but too extreme. Slow compared to the FG, sure, but they track to their target. *Tracking is useless when the tank hides behind a wall.* Using an unreleased suit as a manner of saying swarms are not OP is asinine. *No, it means I'm looking at the long-term. In the long-haul, your point on damage mods is pointless.* If jumping has never saved you against a tank, that is because you are too far away for it too matter. When you are forging up close against a blaster, jumping is what saves you. Seeing many swarms take advantage of the lag to do the same. Just their jumps are bigger, and they have enough stamina to jump an extra time or two before they get immobile and easier to hit. *I was talking about short range here, and tanks always kill me at short range when I jump. If I'm in a tank's sights I'm done for unless I have conveniently close cover. I might get one swarm of.* My point about not needing direct line of sight to fire referred to being able to step out long enough to acquire a target, and then move back into cover to launch over it. Happens all the time. FG can't do that. They need direct LOS between themselves and the target if they want a hit. *So do SLs. I can't lock on through walls* The not logic bomb!
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:21:00 - [119] - Quote Atiim wrote: Forge guns and Swarm Launchers have the same damage bonus to armor. Ehhh, not true. It's +/-10% for Forgeguns and +/-20% for SL. Both are strong against armor and weak against shields. GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. ????? Is this a visual glitch? Yes, this is a glitch that happens every once and a while. Most tankers like to believe that AV should be nerfed because of this as opposed to just fixing the glitch. It doesn't happen once in awhile. It happens every single time the swarmer is outside of 150 m. It happens most of the time they are between 100-150. It happens occasionally closer than that. It is not a glitch, it is a design decision by CCP to reduce render distance to increase graphical fidelity. As a result, swarms NEEDED a nerf to not continue a paradigm where tankers can't see the swarms or the swarmer. Wouldn't make sense if the driver/pilot knew that they were being tracked? You know, something almost every already game does. The not logic bomb!
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4168	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:44:00 - [120] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: It is not a glitch, it is a design decision by CCP to reduce render distance to increase graphical fidelity. As a result, swarms NEEDED a nerf to not continue a paradigm where tankers can't see the swarms or the swarmer. 20000 years into the future you would think that vehicles would be able to use a type of technology to back track and determine the flight path of said auto locking swarms to determine the firing position. At least I should be able to see you and not just have you appear at 60m with swarmer in hand. Wouldn't make sense if the driver/pilot knew that they were being tracked? You know, something almost every already game does.[/quote] "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"

GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 613	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:57:00 - [121] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Swarm users don't give a damn about tankers seeing the swarms all they care about is damage and range. And still, that's like complaining about not being able to see the Sniper when you get hit. The more accurate comparison would be not seeing the sniper when I am looking through the scope of my own rifle. Railgun has a theoretical range of 600m, and an actual range of about a quarter of that, on a good day. I know that swarm users don't care about anyone else. That has been long established. Scrubs gon' be scrubs and all that. The thing, if I could see and engage infantry at max range with my railgun, they could have all the range they like. FG to, as long as they could be engaged. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:06:00 - [122] - Quote I believe this is a great video of the problem with swarms as they are currently (1.6) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw&list=PLE03F8kPr_F_wrgd9bl_bTpqNU9Q_SKys
ACE OF JOKERS AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 116	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:09:00 - [123] - Quote poison Diego wrote: I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank? Yes i have. The Swarm launcher nerf is too much.
Marlin Kirby KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 103	Posted - 2013.11.20 01:25:00 - [124] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: Wouldn't make sense if the driver/pilot knew that they were being tracked? You know, something almost every already game does. 20000 years into the future you would think that vehicles would be able to use a type of technology to back track and determine the flight path of said auto locking swarms to determine the firing position. At least I should be able to see you and not just have you appear at 60m with swarmer in hand. Whether a bug or intentional, this is unacceptable. Vehicles need to see what's around them for their defense. It makes completely no sense otherwise. The not logic bomb!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1171	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:11:00 - [125] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Swarm users don't give a damn about tankers seeing the swarms all they care about is damage and range. And still, that's like complaining about not being able to see the Sniper when you get hit. The more accurate comparison would be not seeing the sniper when I am looking through the scope of my own rifle. Railgun has a theoretical range of 600m, and an actual range of about a quarter of that, on a good day. I know that swarm users don't care about anyone else. That has been long established. Scrubs gon' be scrubs and all that. The thing, if I could see and engage infantry at max range with my railgun, they could have all the range they like. FG to, as long as they could be engaged. I'd actually like to think of it as not being able to see the sniper who sniped your while your also a sniper trying to counter-snipe him while being counter-sniped by 5 other snipers counter-sniping simultaneously and you also counter sniping the other 5 counter-snipers. I challenge you to argue against how SLs are not easy mode by saying something other than "they are just scrubs". You'll find quite a few holes in your logic. And it's hard to take you seriously when you admitted to never skilling into the weapon your calling easy. Actually, it's not hard but merely impossible. I care about every role in this game. I have done nothing with my DUST life but try to improve the state of this game. I guarantee you that many would agree. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
Wako 75 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 86	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:24:00 - [126] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1171	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:27:00 - [127] - Quote Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4178	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:31:00 - [128] - Quote Atiim wrote: Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Yup I'll drop him for you Atiim. Oh and by the way you shall have to introduce me to that Slave you want. We slavers have to stick together you know.... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 100	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:35:00 - [129] - Quote ACE OF JOKERS wrote: poison Diego wrote: I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank? Yes i have. The Swarm launcher nerf is too much. anything gear is to much against proto stompers exept our tanks cost more isk+sp recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 1171	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:36:00 - [130] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Yup I'll drop him for you Atiim. Oh and by the way you shall have to introduce me to that Slave you want. We slavers have to stick together you know.... I already have my own railguns thank you. And I don't want slaves. I never said I wanted slaves. I asked for Matri Scout LAVS, NOT SLAVES Check out my corp's new website here :D -HAND

jerrmy12 kahoalii The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 100	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:36:00 - [131] - Quote Atiim wrote: Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. cough rail guns are op for me cough recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4179	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:44:00 - [132] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Yup I'll drop him for you Atiim. Oh and by the way you shall have to introduce me to that Slave you want. We slavers have to stick together you know.... I already have my own railguns thank you. And I want slaves. I said I wanted slaves. I asked for Matri Scout SLAVES, ALL THE SLAVES I see your zeal is refreshing. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
skippy678 F.T.U. 132	Posted - 2013.11.20 04:45:00 - [133] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: skippy678 wrote: and dude who says its 1 million sp to make an AV fit...your slow.. 1mill swarm operation 1.5 swarm proficiency 1 mil for dmage mods + at least a million for an advanced suit my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob. 150k for prereqs. 610k to get proto swarms 610k for complex damage mods MLT Minmatar medium frame That is all you need right now to be a fearsome threat to all vehicles. Also, advanced suits cost 800k, not a million. You don't need prof to put in work versus armor tanks, which are pretty much the standard right now. with wykormi and 3 damage mods I still run into a handfull of tanks who walk away from me easy peazy... And i have proficincy 5..so i would suggest it if you wanna try to battle guys Like Void Echo/Daishi and Cakeman...but hey every weapon I operate is at Pro 5. MD/swarm/SMG/Snipe Any of those guys will tell you that you are wasting yourtime without the prof.5 even steping up...and thats 1.5 million SP either way u must admit it costs more than 1 millionSP to be decent with swarms... In the last1-4 weeks I have pretty much eliminated the swarm out of my suits except for speacial occasions big names/ corps. I also keep a CBR7 in my uplink suit..jst cuz if i see a dropship coming towards me i lock on to a blaster nearby just to keep em away without showing them they are not proto.(also opens up 2 slots for complex damage mods on my meeaaann SMG. we really do have to wait and see what happens...everyone has distorted the truth in sooo many ways in these forums that i dont think anyone remembers or knows what really is going to happen.... we are gonna get a respec anyway and when tht happens make your choice.but nothingwill be truely OP because if it is..everyone will do it and then it wont be OP, it will just be the way it is. U.play.good? F.T.U. Recruiting Thread


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