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1.7 worse for av or tankers?

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True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4162	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:50:00 - [1] - Quote Atiim wrote: poison Diego wrote: One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher?? PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT?????? Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly. Because they (PRO Swarms) were given out in 50 increments for events....stupid and pointless with reduced skill reqs to use. Why wouldn't you skills into them? Where were the 50 maddies or gunlogis I should have gotten from events? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4162	Posted - 2013.11.19 20:56:00 - [2] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. Agreed... all PLC users I had the honour to playing with had immense skills and made other AR players look like jokes. SL....no skill at all, fire and forget. Positioning is part of using the weapon it is not skill, to have clear line of sight is a must have for any weapon same for tanks, the only weapon related skill comes in the aiming and the SL does that for you..... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4162	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:40:00 - [3] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: The most frustrating thing is when a tank one shots you while your trying to swarm them and then when you are reloading from an already nerfed clip size. I will never use AV again because the balance of the encounter is so imbalanced. Let other tanks kill tanks for all I care. I'll stay out of your way. You can't hack an objective, you can't drop ammo, you can't rep me. Thus in a battle you're useless as far as logistics go and in tight city maps you're irrelevant. Thus you can roll around all day long and it wouldn't bother me. My squad doesn't even bother with tanks anymore. Sweet, I wont shoot at you if you don't shoot are me, I just want to fight other tanks anyway. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4163	Posted - 2013.11.19 21:57:00 - [4] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Berserker007 wrote: im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt There is a fundamental difference though: If you had 2 million SP, you can make a viable AV fit. It won't be the best, but it will certainly put a whole world of hurt into vehicles. It will be effective against all vehicles. If you try and make a 2 million SP tank, you will get destroyed super fast everytime you call it out. No doubt about it. There is no survival chance for a low SP tanker. Keep in mind that that threshold is about to go way up with the extra turret SP sinks, so expect that SP minimum to jump drastically. all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple That is BS, may main used to be like that. You cannot take out a higher tier tanker worth his salt while under AV fire. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4163	Posted - 2013.11.19 22:13:00 - [5] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Kane Fyea wrote: Please tell me why the heavy suit should be the primary AV unit. Give me a reasonable explanation other then "Because I said so". The heavy frame, like the vehicle it fights, has limitations. It has vulnerabilities. It requires support, just like the tank. It has the HP to actually get in a fight with a tank and get away. And it has what should be the best AV weapon in the forge. Greater range, greater damage, with a trade off in mobility. It also requires infantry support if it intends to perform the AV role long term, as opposed to the self contained logi running hives, proxi mines, and a scanner for self protection. You want to smash vehicles, make some sacrifices, instead of keeping your high utility infantry suit just needing to make a single change to become the beast AV suit. I figure its the biggest suit, should get the biggest guns, and hunt the biggest targets. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:10:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3. It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP. Try again. All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Yes anyone can; my first time piloting an HAV made me go 23-12-0. Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. Because of the very thing you want removed, AV. Heck, CharCharOdell even made a thread about how she misses being able to go 30-0 with ease. I think it's called Tank Nostalgia? BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. A Forge Gun is so much more easier to use than a Swarm that it's funny. A 1-2 second charge time, a travel time faster than any vehicle can react to (except Scout LAVs, those things are scary fast with nitrous mods), and the ability to kill infantry. It's like AR users who say MDs are easy mode. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. If I said right now that I had 0 SP invested into HAVs, you'd be the first one to say, "well you don't use tanks so HTFU and get good". You don't use swarm launchers yet think your able to make an educated valuable, and non-biased opinion about them? Yeah anything you say about SLs from this point is null and void. Also, I have more SP invested into HAVs then I do AV atm. But that gap is slowly closing.... Slowly..... Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Does it look like I have 36 million dollars to give to someone who is probably going to hit up Cakeman and say "yeah I'm doing that video demonstration that Atiim asked me to do, you mind bringing out a $h!t fit for me"? (It's not like he wouldn't do that if you paid him). My wallet total isn't even 36 Million ISK. And If I take money from the corp wallet then I have to pay it back. Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Or maybe your just wrong. I could easily say HTFU and GET GOOD to the other tankers here but unlike you and most people in the LOLTank Brigade, I defend my points with facts and logic. Not "lol yeah this is easy mode you need to HTFU and get good scrub" followed by your typical, "No I don't need proof at all why would I use proof to try to prove you wrong"? Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. I'm worried about you. It's not healthy to laugh at yourself like that. And once again, you say that as if HAV piloting was hard However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:18:00 - [7] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Swarms do more damage *Not against shields.* -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* -Track to the target *Again, they're also really slow compared to the FG* -They can also be equipped with more damage mods *For now. Watch what you say, you're the kind of person who is going to be super mad when the Caldari heavy frame comes out* -Can carry hives to resupply *True* -Can jump better to avoid blaster fire *Speed is a larger factor than jumping. Jumping has never saved me against a tank* -They do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target Yes they do. I've had swarms hit walls many times mostly because the tank hides behind a wall because swarms go so slow. Rockets have also hit walls because I don't have 70-¦ of open space. The FG can easily take advantage of small spaces. -Don't need to spec into another frame to use it. *True* Did you just say swarms are easy to see? *Face palms brains through back of head...slumps to the floor blood pumping from the gaping wound in his face..... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4166	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:26:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. All I think about AV is that fire and forget weapons should either be weak, or not fire and forget at all. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4167	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:39:00 - [9] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: True Adamance wrote: Marlin Kirby wrote: GeneralButtNaked wrote: -Are longer range *That's debatable since swarms also go super slow and are easy to see* Did you just say swarms are easy to see? Face palms brains through back of head...slumps to the floor blood pumping from the gaping wound in his face..... Easier to see You're right. Unfair on my part. I don't use vehicles and the only time I fear AV is when I'm a passenger (usually a dropship). I clearly see missiles coming my way, however, this is usually because I'm on a turret of said dropship. I wish I could shoot at the buggers. But when it comes to FG vs dropships: Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-, I don't stand a chance. They are invisible most of the time, and the rare times you do see them they are phasing through solid objects. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4167	Posted - 2013.11.19 23:48:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes.... I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs. I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. All I think about AV is that fire and forget weapons should either be weak, or not fire and forget at all. Swarms are only fire and forget on maps like Manus Peak where you have a complete view of the battlefield. Not even then in most cases. If you decide to be a man and not AV from the redline then swarms are fire, crash into a wall, and then get gunned down by enemy infantry every time. I can cite many occasions of where my Swarms decided to glitch worse than giant MCC sized GEKs. Your point? That your anecdotal evidence is not more or less valuable or relevant to the discussion than mine is. That is my point. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4168	Posted - 2013.11.20 00:44:00 - [11] - Quote Marlin Kirby wrote: It is not a glitch, it is a design decision by CCP to reduce render distance to increase graphical fidelity. As a result, swarms NEEDED a nerf to not continue a paradigm where tankers can't see the swarms or the swarmer. 20000 years into the future you would think that vehicles would be able to use a type of technology to back track and determine the flight path of said auto locking swarms to determine the firing position. At least I should be able to see you and not just have you appear at 60m with swarmer in hand. Wouldn't make sense if the driver/pilot knew that they were being tracked? You know, something almost every already game does.[/quote] "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4178	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:31:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Yup I'll drop him for you Atiim. Oh and by the way you shall have to introduce me to that Slave you want. We slavers have to stick together you know.... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4179	Posted - 2013.11.20 03:44:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: Wako 75 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Yup I'll drop him for you Atiim. Oh and by the way you shall have to introduce me to that Slave you want. We slavers have to stick together you know.... I already have my own railguns thank you. And I want slaves. I said I wanted slaves. I asked for Matri Scout SLAVES, ALL THE SLAVES I see your zeal is refreshing. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"

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