Forges will still be a danger, could you stop? CCP might take you seriously and prenerf our derpships

No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive.

Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant

IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV.

The best rivals the best, and only the best.

So you are out of range of 2 turrets so only rails can kill you?

There is always someone out there so naive....

my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard.

Why not? Half the job of AV is repelling the tank. It's not going to move forward if I hit it at that range, but it's close enough to where a specialized tank to take AV-me out.

Stop sounding like a whiny little baby for starters, or are you just hoping for trolls?

The swarm nerf was a little too much, they didn't need both a range AND damage nerf, 1 would have been sufficent.

Can anyone explain why Armor Repairers are Passive modules? Am I understanding this incorrectly? Will it be like infantry modules where the armor repper will passively repair armor over time?

The only active modules are: Shield/Armor hardeners, shield boosters and damage amplifiers (also afterburners and such)

As a punishment for Madrugars having broken reps since Chromo.

But yes, it will be like infantry armor repairers. Always active, slow trickle.

Cool.

Do you think this will balance the Shield vs. Armor debacle in terms of vehicles?

The swarm nerf was not too much. Swarms were the only weapon to gain +50% damage from standard to proto, and their range allowed for far too many invisible shots.

Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players.

PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms.

The current scheme would be equivalent to the stinger doing more damage than the RPG in BF. People would justifiably rage at catering to people who cannot handle the basics of aiming a ballistic object.

You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them.

You don't give huge power without expecting skill to apply it. How this gets lost on people is a mystery to me. It should be simple and straightforward, but then again, people never like easy mode being taken away from them.

Debateable. Honestly, the current meta prevents shield tnaks from fulfilling their alleged primary role as hit and run specialists.

The new meta appears to be that shield tanks, running missiles, will be able to output massive amounts of damage in a short amount of time, and have an actual booster to keep them in combat just long enough to destroy their target.

Will they be able to escape after? That will come down to tanker skill and if AV has decided to be smart or not.

It also depends on if there is a proper visual clue to the status of a tanks modules. If you can tell accurately when they have hardeners on or not, then they will be much easier to counter.

More questions than answers at this point.

So you want tankers to spec into rails, just so they can spam shots at something they can't see?

All because you are not good enough to kill a tank when they can see you?

Yeah, typical AV, no concern for balance, they just want to be able to destroy vehicles without risk.

The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do.

The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor.

Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile.

If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial.

1) A stinger would do so much more damage than an RPG, just sayin

Now as for this



I agree, but I think our opinions differ. You see I think the the Launcher range nerf was more than enough, prehaps a little damage to account for changes in HAV health sure.

The swarm launcher would have changed completly, it would only be capable of engaging enemy vehicles from within it's current theatre of battle. Now at range of 140 you aren't exactly going to last long as an AVer if the tank has brought infantry.

The range nerf stopped you being able to outrange infantry by so much, what you would see is swarm launchers become a niche weapon, where they would be used, most often by commando suits, to significantly shorten the wave of oppurtunity of tanks.

Hell, you could nerf the range to within a 100m, as long as you kept the damage.
But with both, you have an AV with minimal damage, too strong to become infantry, to weak to really beat vehicles, so what?

If we don't have a heavy on a roof, which you all want nerfed, or a tank we are pretty much ******! I mean come on, through out the time I (personally) have tried to cut tankers a bit of slack, but when the shoe is on the other foot . . . . . . .

my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob.

lolwut?

I'm butthurt that lasers and ScR kill me all the time, but I haven't speced into armor because I'm stubborn. Therefore, lasers and ScR should be nerfed. See the problem?

Repel and destroy are not the same thing. I think I've destroyed maybe one tank in PC. Most of the tanks I fire swarms at immediately retreat, putting it out of action for X amount of time. Then I turn around and die to the guy using an AR. That's how it should be.

It's true that the range on the SL was too long, but 175 meters seems extreme. Did you miss the part where I'm fine the damage nerf?

I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank?

let me tell you that the assault forgeguns are enough pain in the anus

The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do.

The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor.

Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile.

If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial.

Any type of lock on weapon should not be the highest damage dealer out of the AV options. That is catering to bad players.

PLC and forge should be the damage dealers, not AV grenades and swarms.

Clearly you were not around for when your corp was fighting zion in the start of PC, when you would put two forgers and a swarmer on top of the towers on the production facility.

You haven't said how 175m is extreme though. Is it because you will actually have to get within visual range(maybe)?

Or is it because the shorter range will help to eliminate the long range scrub swarming from towers?

Or is it because you will no longer be able to be beyond the visual range of everything except for a sniper?

I mean, it isn't like you still won't be able to hop around and spam shots from behind cover, so I don't know why you guys are freaking out.

You will still be able to scrub it up, just you will have to be closer.

Using a PLC for AV does not need skill it does need a wonder to work. And even Swarms need some sort of skill if you consider how dumb these rockets are or how difficult it is to lock on the right target. And you really believe it takes skill to run a tank when there is no offense other than a another tank?

Right now you can have quite interesting battles if a good AV meets a good Tanker, bad AV gets killed by even medicore Tankers and the other way round.

Regarding the ISK argument you all know that ISK is not a balancing factor otherwise a free fit should never be able to drop a 150K Protosuit.

Then tell me what are my swarms supposed to do then?

and dude who says its 1 million sp to make an AV fit...your slow..

1mill swarm operation
1.5 swarm proficiency
1 mil for dmage mods

+ at least a million for an advanced suit

my proto AV fit costs 244 k isk. More than your tank prob.

deal less damage than the PLC.

Buff the PLC.

Why is this like pulling teeth?

150k for prereqs.
610k to get proto swarms
610k for complex damage mods

MLT Minmatar medium frame

That is all you need right now to be a fearsome threat to all vehicles.

Also, advanced suits cost 800k, not a million. You don't need prof to put in work versus armor tanks, which are pretty much the standard right now.

One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher??

PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT??????