Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly.

Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly.

If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3.

It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP.

Try again.

Aren't there already visual markers for active modules on tanks? The "Aura" (for lack of a better word) that it makes when tanks have hardeners/reppers on (which I think share the same visuals) as well as Blue auras for shield boosters etc

Since active armor repairers are gone next patch wouldnt the current visuals suffice?

Clearly you were not around for when your corp was fighting zion in the start of PC, when you would put two forgers and a swarmer on top of the towers on the production facility.

You haven't said how 175m is extreme though. Is it because you will actually have to get within visual range(maybe)?

Or is it because the shorter range will help to eliminate the long range scrub swarming from towers?

Or is it because you will no longer be able to be beyond the visual range of everything except for a sniper?

I mean, it isn't like you still won't be able to hop around and spam shots from behind cover, so I don't know why you guys are freaking out.

You will still be able to scrub it up, just you will have to be closer.

All you need is SP?

Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D.

You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers?

Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios.

BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users.

So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post.

Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands.

Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play.

Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle.

[quote=skippy678]

150k for prereqs.
610k to get proto swarms
610k for complex damage mods

MLT Minmatar medium frame

That is all you need right now to be a fearsome threat to all vehicles.

Also, advanced suits cost 800k, not a million. You don't need prof to put in work versus armor tanks, which are pretty much the standard right now.

Because your saying that a weapon should be quite obviously better then another in every way that's important. That is not balancing. That is called buffing an UP weapon to useable state an making another weapon UP in comparison making swarms the worst choice in AV. Why would anyone use swarms if there is quite obviously weapons that are much more effective in almost every way

im probably forgetting some other items that you want; but for a real AV'er, you are looking at around 10M SP investment

not sure on tanker SP now; but don't assume the SP investment for an av'er is nothing; b/c it isnt

The swarms benefit will be longer range than the PLC, at the expense of damage. Plus, you know, that whole lock on, fire and forget thing. So if you want to get a hit, go swarms, if you want to kill, go PLC/FG.

The reason why swarms should be the first choice for new players is ease of use. Then they should quickly realize that you can get much more power by going with one of the harder to use weapons. It helps to enforce progression, and propels people into more rewarding and powerful styles of play.

The swarms benefit will be longer range than the PLC, at the expense of damage. Plus, you know, that whole lock on, fire and forget thing. So if you want to get a hit, go swarms, if you want to kill, go PLC/FG.

The reason why swarms should be the first choice for new players is ease of use. Then they should quickly realize that you can get much more power by going with one of the harder to use weapons. It helps to enforce progression, and propels people into more rewarding and powerful styles of play.

Wow long range and lock on how cool especially when I find out I can't destroy anything with my prototype weapon (Which I've spent over 2 mill sp on) but militia tanks (Or dumbass standard tanks) and LAVs. Sounds like lots of fun.

Don't worry I'll just use my forge gun if this is how CCPs thinking. The forge gun is easier to use in my opinion anyways plus I'll actually have a chance at killing any infantry trying to kill me.

Range and tracking are not enough of a benefit you need high damage to go with it?

Yep, you just made the list of scrubs.

FFS people, this is not rocket science. If you want the weapon system to do the work for you, then you don't deserve high alpha damage.

If you want to do the work of aiming, then the reward is more alpha damage.

But congratulations on growing up and going FG, now you can learn to actually aim an AV weapon and then you can get off the scrub list.

Range and tracking are not enough of a benefit you need high damage to go with it?

Yep, you just made the list of scrubs.

FFS people, this is not rocket science. If you want the weapon system to do the work for you, then you don't deserve high alpha damage.

If you want to do the work of aiming, then the reward is more alpha damage.

But congratulations on growing up and going FG, now you can learn to actually aim an AV weapon and then you can get off the scrub list.

All I know is dropships are going to be invincible

I want to ask you guys who ar saying that this swarm luncher nerf is to much, have you EVER stepped into a tank?

let me tell you that the assault forgeguns are enough pain in the anus without you jumping ants running around my tank or sitting way over in the redline packing a 2100 damage punch 4 times with that silly little toy of yours... and then you trow these bloody tracking germain hand grenades, and of course they do about 1500 damage EACH.

If you dont think that its unfair that you only need one ant to sneak up to a tank, put a good nanohive down, thow a few av grenades, then when the tank tries to make a run for it (unexpectedly) the ant pull out his way overpowered wiryrkomi swarm luncher and drains the last scraps of his armour.

and there are 600k isk gone.. how mouch was the ant-¦s suit again? maybe 100k?



You have to relize that you are not the only ones getting nerfed... Tankers are going to be nerfed to the dust to. Try to imagine the galliente logistics with 3 lows instead of 5... You would laugh right? oh WOW we get 400 more armour!! that just made my day! If you would give galliente logistics 40 more armour and take 2 low modules away then first we would hear people rage for real. Just please take all the low and high slots away ccp! appearantly we dont need them.

Please just stop this bullshit that tanks are going to be overpowered. just think about it, I think that 600k-1m isk should be more op than one 100k suit though the aren-¦t. Im sorry, maybe I am the only one that thinks that?

Entire argument made obsolete by Aim Assisted ARs.

Remind me when Forge Guns are accessible to Medium and Light Frames. Until then, they will be doing nothing to Dropships, and will be relying on Remote Explosives to take out other vehicles.

The most frustrating thing is when a tank one shots you while your trying to swarm them and then when you are reloading from an already nerfed clip size.

I will never use AV again because the balance of the encounter is so imbalanced.

Let other tanks kill tanks for all I care. I'll stay out of your way. You can't hack an objective, you can't drop ammo, you can't rep me. Thus in a battle you're useless as far as logistics go and in tight city maps you're irrelevant.

Thus you can roll around all day long and it wouldn't bother me. My squad doesn't even bother with tanks anymore.

Do AR rounds bend to hit their target?

Why does a medium frame need a powerful, long range, tracking AV weapon? Why is that the way to go for people?

Heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. It should have the strongest weapons, the best defenses, and the greatest ability to withstand a vehicular assault.

The issue here seems to be that people want AV without having to spec out of their current fit.

Ahh the stuggle of the medium frames. If they can't do everything as well or better than every other frame, they scream unfair.

Don't worry Justin, I am sure you will still be able to find rooftops to mass drive off of. Because that is all pro.

There is a fundamental difference though:

If you had 2 million SP, you can make a viable AV fit. It won't be the best, but it will certainly put a whole world of hurt into vehicles. It will be effective against all vehicles.


If you try and make a 2 million SP tank, you will get destroyed super fast everytime you call it out. No doubt about it. There is no survival chance for a low SP tanker.

Keep in mind that that threshold is about to go way up with the extra turret SP sinks, so expect that SP minimum to jump drastically.

all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple

all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple

If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3.

It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP.

Try again.

all I can say, if in a 2M SP alt in tanking; I took out a 10M SP tanker; and survived 3 people swarming .. so yeah; your point is moot at best. Come back when people think you are equal to Caeli, Noc, Slap or Alldin, Exmaple

Do AR rounds bend to hit their target?

Why does a medium frame need a powerful, long range, tracking AV weapon? Why is that the way to go for people?

Heavy suit should be the primary AV suit. It should have the strongest weapons, the best defenses, and the greatest ability to withstand a vehicular assault.

The issue here seems to be that people want AV without having to spec out of their current fit.

Ahh the stuggle of the medium frames. If they can't do everything as well or better than every other frame, they scream unfair.

Don't worry Justin, I am sure you will still be able to find rooftops to mass drive off of. Because that is all pro.

Please tell me why the heavy suit should be the primary AV unit. Give me a reasonable explanation other then "Because I said so".

The heavy frame, like the vehicle it fights, has limitations. It has vulnerabilities. It requires support, just like the tank.

It has the HP to actually get in a fight with a tank and get away.

And it has what should be the best AV weapon in the forge. Greater range, greater damage, with a trade off in mobility.

It also requires infantry support if it intends to perform the AV role long term, as opposed to the self contained logi running hives, proxi mines, and a scanner for self protection.

You want to smash vehicles, make some sacrifices, instead of keeping your high utility infantry suit just needing to make a single change to become the beast AV suit.

No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive.

Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant

IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV.

The best rivals the best, and only the best.