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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1159
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Posted - 2013.11.19 19:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
poison Diego wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Get good at tanking before you complain about AV. There is always someone out there so naive.... my point here exactly that swarmlunchers dont need any skills, they lock on and shoot. but tankers have to have a lot of skills, trying to escape bloody swarms. about 4-6m sp goes into a descent tank, maybe 1m into an op av bastard. They lock on and shoot....but crash into everything possible.
They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself.
What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers.
Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs.
And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs
Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting.
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-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1159
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Posted - 2013.11.19 19:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
poison Diego wrote:Atiim wrote: They require you to have awareness to your surroundings, as well as the tank itself.
What most of the LOLTank Brigade is complaining about is redline AV. But that's like saying we should nerf snipers because of redline snipers.
Then there is the other part of the LOLTank brigade who thinks that AV should not exist any we should be forced to use HAVs to take out other HAVs.
And the 3rd pool of the LOLTank brigade simply wants an AV nerf because it can kill their $#!t fit HAVs
Again. Make a video of you soloing a well known and famous tanker and tell me how much of a scrub weapon it is. I'm waiting.
so you are saying that only well known and famous tankers should tank because they are not as hard to kill? that ridiculous!! thats like saying if logis aren-Št doing theyr job fx repairing armour, providing ammo and reviving they shouldn't play as logistic. Then the logistic would vanish from dust514. And what I think is that solo players shouldn't be able to destroy tanks easily at all unless like those paper-somas or very idiotic tankers. No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive.
Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant
IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV.
The best rivals the best, and only the best.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1159
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Posted - 2013.11.19 19:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
A decent tank is 400k ISK sorry.
And you assume that the AV will not die at all when trying to take out a tank. You also assume that having AV makes us invincible.
Stop trying to avoid the point. If yo think AV is so easy then go try to solo a good HAV with a good pilot and post a video showing your gameplay. You won't do it will you.
It's a shame that most tankers will just spew whatever lie they want and then run like hell when someone asks for proof.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1163
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Posted - 2013.11.19 20:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Atiim wrote: No, I'm saying that if I have a PROTOTYPE weapon, only the best players should survive.
Or should we just give MLT suits the ability to survive a Freedom, Allotek, Isukone, Duvolle, and every other pro variant
IF YOU ARE NOT THE BEST TANKER THEN YOU SHOULD NOT SURVIVE THE BEST AV.
The best rivals the best, and only the best.
The easier a weapon is to use, the less damage it should do. The PLC should massively outdamage swarms because of the difficulty factor. Any lock on, fire and forget weapon should not do more damage than a single fire, one in the clip lobbing projectile. If you want to pretend that medium frame AV takes skill, then roll a PLC. Otherwise, you are just a scrub in denial. If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3.
It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP.
Try again.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1163
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Posted - 2013.11.19 20:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
poison Diego wrote:One last thing, why do you think that EVERYBODY has wiryrkomi swarm luncher??
PROBABLY BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO UNDERPOWERED RIGHT?????? Because STD any ADV swarms fail badly.
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-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1165
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Posted - 2013.11.19 23:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Atiim wrote: If you honestly believe that then Blasters and Missile turrets should do no damage to anything whatsoever.. They are stupid easy and even easier when you press R3.
It does take skill. Until you can post a video of you soloing a good HAV with a good pilot, you will continue to be spitting baseless claims. I find it hilarious how you say AV is easy when HAVs are thg most easiest thing to do in the game. All you need is SP.
Try again.
All you need is SP? Absolutely not. Unless you want to be broke, with a bad K/D. You think anyone can just hop into a tank and throw out good numbers? Yes anyone can; my first time piloting an HAV made me go 23-12-0.Than explain why all tankers don't have ridiculously high K/D ratios. Because of the very thing you want removed, AV. Heck, CharCharOdell even made a thread about how she misses being able to go 30-0 with ease. I think it's called Tank Nostalgia? BTW, blaster turrets and missiles do not lock on, and they do not track. In no way do swarms take skill compared to tanking, in no way do swarms take skill relative to FG or PLC users. A Forge Gun is so much more easier to use than a Swarm that it's funny. A 1-2 second charge time, a travel time faster than any vehicle can react to (except Scout LAVs, those things are scary fast with nitrous mods), and the ability to kill infantry. It's like AR users who say MDs are easy mode. So you want me to dump 610k SP into swarms just to make you look stupid? No need, you do that every time you post. If I said right now that I had 0 SP invested into HAVs, you'd be the first one to say, "well you don't use tanks so HTFU and get good". You don't use swarm launchers yet think your able to make an educated valuable, and non-biased opinion about them? Yeah anything you say about SLs from this point is null and void.
Also, I have more SP invested into HAVs then I do AV atm. But that gap is slowly closing.... Slowly.....
Unless you want to pay for the clone pack for me to attack AE, and provide the ringers to tie up their infantry so I can go solo Bob, there is no valid way to satisfy your demands. Does it look like I have 36 million dollars to give to someone who is probably going to hit up Cakeman and say "yeah I'm doing that video demonstration that Atiim asked me to do, you mind bringing out a $h!t fit for me"? (It's not like he wouldn't do that if you paid him). My wallet total isn't even 36 Million ISK. And If I take money from the corp wallet then I have to pay it back.Not that I would anyway, because you are merely defending the worst of play styles because you are bad. If you could do anything else reasonably well, then you wouldn't be the standard bearer for scrub play. Or maybe your just wrong. I could easily say HTFU and GET GOOD to the other tankers here but unlike you and most people in the LOLTank Brigade, I defend my points with facts and logic. Not "lol yeah this is easy mode you need to HTFU and get good scrub" followed by your typical, "No I don't need proof at all why would I use proof to try to prove you wrong"?Keep telling yourself that swarming takes skill. Delusional people give me a good chuckle. I'm worried about you. It's not healthy to laugh at yourself like that.
And once again, you say that as if HAV piloting was hard
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1166
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Posted - 2013.11.19 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:
175m lock with Standard swarm damage is trash and you know it. You can't honestly be saying Dropships are worried at all about Swarms in 1.7. Someone said before, the range nerf puts you in Infantry range vs any other vehicle, and Medium Frame AV suits auto-lose to standard Infantry. The Forge Gun was the best AV weapon available to Infantry in the game before the nerf, and it is after nerf. Players always skilled into Heavies for the Assault Forge if they really wanted to get rid of vehicles.
No one is saying that other AV options have to outclass Forge Gunners, but they have to have the ability to win in optimal, not deter, or there will be no point in skilling into it. "Deter" only means that opposing team has a numerical advantage, especially if it takes more than 1 person to deter.
No, I do not know that the range is insufficient, because I haven't played vs them yet. I also disagree that the FG is the best AV weapon right now. Currently, there is little reason to spec a FG unless you aim to be a heavy beyond just forging. Swarms do more damage, are longer range, and track to the target. They can also be equipped with more damage mods, can carry hives to resupply, and can jump better to avoid blaster fire. Additionally, they do not need direct line of sight to be fired and hit the target. Oh yeah, and you don't need to spec into another frame to use it. So I disagree with your position that the FG is the best AV choice right now. Thankfully, the FG will be the prime choice in 1.7, as it should be. Forges are more than just AV. If I had a respec, then yeah I would pick FGs because I can forge gun snipe with them and if someone starts shooting me while I'm firing at the tank I actually have a chance of living.
Swarms and Forge Guns do the exact same amount of damage. Maybe you should skill into them before making "assumptions"
Yes, to lock on and fire at anything, we have to have a direct line of sight. That was patched in the same update that gave us the new maps.
Forge Guns may not damage it at all, but they can go from MCC to MCC and still get hit markers. Swarms have a max of 400m if your lucky.
You don't need to spec into another frame to use FGs either. There are MLT heavy suits. And everyone starts off with dropsuit command level 0. Meaning that they could easily become a heavy frame before being a medium frame.
A swarm launcher has 2 clips worth of ammo. A forge gun has around 6. What's your point?
A heavy may not be able to avoid blaster shots as well, but they have high HP and can easily survive to cover. A medium/light frame is dead when It gets ambushed by a blaster turret.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1166
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Posted - 2013.11.19 23:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes....
I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs.
I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514.
AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be.
What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness.
Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1166
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Posted - 2013.11.19 23:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:
However given your inclination alongside avid tankers like Void and Spkr to exaggerate..... your words are not really all that convincing knowing that you wish tanks to be utter jokes....
I don't think you get anything out of this argument, neither does the General here drop it since you cannot convince tankers to tank more nerfs and Av to get more buffs, consequently we cannot convince you that tanks deserve buffs and AV nerfs.
I have never once in my entire life as a DUST 514 player ever said that I want HAVs to be complete jokes. I've never said that they should be nerfed or anything of that nature. That is the exact opposite of my goal, which is complete balance between all classes within DUST 514. AV does not need a nerf. I've seen tankers highly capable of surviving multiple AV with ease. The people with the super strong tanks will always be able to hold a candle to my super strong AV. That's how it is and should be. What HAVs do need though is ADV and PRO tanks. That way we'd have a clear distinction of how to balance AV and Vehicles through tiers. And if you say that Enforcers take the place of PRO tanks then you are part of the problem. I'd facepalm myself into blindness. Exaggeration? Everything I've said can be tested and proven. I can't say the same about other people Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms. All I think about AV is that fire and forget weapons should either be weak, or not fire and forget at all. Swarms are only fire and forget on maps like Manus Peak where you have a complete view of the battlefield. Not even then in most cases. If you decide to be a man and not AV from the redline then swarms are fire, crash into a wall, and then get gunned down by enemy infantry every time.
I can cite many occasions of where my Swarms decided to glitch worse than giant MCC sized GEKs. Your point?
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-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1166
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Posted - 2013.11.19 23:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:True Adamance wrote: Yet I can cite so many occasions where I was being hit by insanely damaging invisible swarms.
????? Is this a visual glitch? Yes, this is a glitch that happens every once and a while. Most tankers like to believe that AV should be nerfed because of this as opposed to just fixing the glitch.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1166
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Posted - 2013.11.19 23:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:
Swarms do more damage against armor tanks, the majority of tanks are armor.
FG max range: 300m Swarm max range: 400m. Not debatable.
Slow compared to the FG, sure, but they track to their target.
Using an unreleased suit as a manner of saying swarms are not OP is asinine.
If jumping has never saved you against a tank, that is because you are too far away for it too matter. When you are forging up close against a blaster, jumping is what saves you. Seeing many swarms take advantage of the lag to do the same. Just their jumps are bigger, and they have enough stamina to jump an extra time or two before they get immobile and easier to hit.
My point about not needing direct line of sight to fire referred to being able to step out long enough to acquire a target, and then move back into cover to launch over it. Happens all the time. FG can't do that. They need direct LOS between themselves and the target if they want a hit.
QUIT LYING TO YOURSELF!
Forge guns and Swarm Launchers have the same damage bonus to armor. And the fact that the majority of tanks are armor doesn't matter when they both have the same SP costs. That's like Gallente Assaults complaining about Mass Drivers or Caldari suits complaining about Flux Grenades.
I'd love to see anyone try to get hit markers on a non-stationary tank while locking onto a vehicle at 400m. At that range the swarms will almost always crash into a wall or terrain.
Forge Guns can charge while in cover, and then jump out of cover for half a second to fire at the tank. A Swarm has to jump out of cover keep a direct line of sight through the entire lock process and while firing. All while outside of cover to fire.
A Forge Gun can kill dropsuits with splash damage, and a direct LOS is needed for a fraction of a second with a forge gun. You can charge behind cover, swarms cannot.
And aiming is not hard at all on DS3. KB/M? LOL.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1171
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Posted - 2013.11.20 03:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
GeneralButtNaked wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:
Swarm users don't give a damn about tankers seeing the swarms all they care about is damage and range.
And still, that's like complaining about not being able to see the Sniper when you get hit.
The more accurate comparison would be not seeing the sniper when I am looking through the scope of my own rifle. Railgun has a theoretical range of 600m, and an actual range of about a quarter of that, on a good day. I know that swarm users don't care about anyone else. That has been long established. Scrubs gon' be scrubs and all that. The thing, if I could see and engage infantry at max range with my railgun, they could have all the range they like. FG to, as long as they could be engaged. I'd actually like to think of it as not being able to see the sniper who sniped your while your also a sniper trying to counter-snipe him while being counter-sniped by 5 other snipers counter-sniping simultaneously and you also counter sniping the other 5 counter-snipers.
I challenge you to argue against how SLs are not easy mode by saying something other than "they are just scrubs". You'll find quite a few holes in your logic. And it's hard to take you seriously when you admitted to never skilling into the weapon your calling easy. Actually, it's not hard but merely impossible.
I care about every role in this game. I have done nothing with my DUST life but try to improve the state of this game. I guarantee you that many would agree.
Check out my corp's new website here :D
-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1171
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Posted - 2013.11.20 03:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wako 75 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns.
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-HAND
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
1171
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Posted - 2013.11.20 03:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Atiim wrote:Wako 75 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:All I know is dropships are going to be invincible not if my rg is on the opposite team Yes, because everyone here is a tanker who owns railguns. Yup I'll drop him for you Atiim. Oh and by the way you shall have to introduce me to that Slave you want. We slavers have to stick together you know.... I already have my own railguns thank you.
And I don't want slaves. I never said I wanted slaves. I asked for Matri Scout LAVS, NOT SLAVES
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