assualt were that then logi's got some major rework done on them and...........you can keep buffing the **** out of every thing, or you can rebalanced them, the assualt doesn't need a buff, the logi needs to not be the most capable at everything.

You call it a crutch. Maybe it is for those that wish to abuse the class. But most of the hubbub out there refers to the so-called "Assault' Logi. But instead of addressing the real issue, it is 'cut off the head of all Logis' to cure the cancer. That is beyond foolish.

The key to pushing Logistics back to where it was intended is not about nerfing the suit, it is about enhancing Assault to a place that makes it the preferred platform for frontline combat. Give it the bonuses it deserves to fight the good fight and make modules like Damages Mods, less effective to keep them the premiere warfighter.

Weak Logi does not equal balance or even strong Assault. It just equals weak support for all classes. And every team is only as strong as the weakest link.

#ThinkAboutIt

Fact, you're simply using bold text, ad hominem, and anecdotal observations to sell an argument. You're not the first one to do this because they disagree with me but others did a better job. You want to talk facts, show me some hard supported data. If you want to use power text and imaginary numbers, you're wasting my time.

Weak Logi does not equal balance or even strong Assault. It just equals weak support for all classes. And every team is only as strong as the weakest link.

#ThinkAboutIt

I fail to see how allowing Logis to have sidearms and ~800+ HP would weaken support for all classes. They would retain their tank ability, but lose their assault ability, which is how they should have been designed from the beginning.

The whole problem with the perception of Logis being imbalanced, is that they have massive tanking potential alongside assault potential; they only need the former, not both.

Or else completely rename the damn class so no one would have rational expectations based upon the support role their name implies.

No matter how much you shamelessly promote that topic, it's still a heavy handed nerf to people that do play logistics to support their team just because one suit is overpowered due to broken core mechanics. Remember when shields > armor and the CaLogi was OP? Now it's armor > shields and the GaLogi is the OP one. It's not the slots, it's imbalanced game mechanics.

You are simply using big words to sound smart. But in the end,you aren't providing ANY facts yourself on why the suits are ''balanced''

LOL

Not even the OP decided to use facts. Hell, there's only one person out of this entire topic that decided to break it down, but not even the OP, of whom the post was directed at decided to respond. You want facts? This topic is just another virtual lynch mob like the many before it.

I cannot understand why no one in the game feels like the dropsuits should fill niche roles......

''Not even the OP decided to use facts.'' Neither are you.So dont request FACTS while you wont provide them yourself. At least i have common knowledge on my side. Everybody knows that what i was saying was the truth. Proto logis are the most seen/used dropsuits, for a reason.They fulfill any role easily.

on another note:That person you say he ''BROKE IT DOWN'' did it incorrectly. Since the Logis can Fit Only armor plates to max tank armor and they STILL have 5HP per sec repair, AND slots to include (R) nanohives.
No assault will EVER use a suit without repairers, so the HP difference in EVERY case, is actually BIGGER,while doing the specified job BETTER .

Where are you getting this imaginary DPS from? Does a logi suit have some hidden damage bonus that I don't know about? Oh, you must mean damage mods. Since every suit has access to damage mods and stacking penalties only make them so useful after a certain amount, you point is moot.

The problem with Logis isn't their weapon. It's their ability to single-handedly outperform the Assault suit in almost every aspect.

The 5 HP/s regen coupled with having 2x the fitting potential AND carry 3-4 equipment is what makes them function as Super Assaults.

We need to take baby steps to fix this. First, get rid of the 5 HP/s like they've said they would months ago and give them a proper Logi bonus.

Get rid of the blanket 10% damage buff from Uprising 1.0 and give the Assault suit a 2% per level damage bonus. That way the bonus is actually useful to ALL Assault suits and not just shield-tankers.

Hmmm....

Perhaps instead of a 2% bonus to Damage, how about a 5% decrease to Weapon fitting?

More Fitting resources, more tank mods, more assaulting.

But yeah, +1

BUT ITS NOT and you know it.

''Well, he did challenge anyone to refute his data. Go ahead and have a crack at it.'' Im on it.
Imagine the following:
ASsault Gk.0 ( A REALIST fitting,not the ones proposed by your friend there, without armor reps LOL)
3 Cx damage mods
Complex armor rep
Complex armor plates
Enh Armor plates
Duvolle (at prof 5 hitting around 54.5)

Shields 150, Armor 680,(Total EHP 830)Speed:6.6,CPU/PG left: 38CPU/4PG,Armor rep:6.25 per sec

Now look at the logi, fulfilling the SAME DPS role:

Logi Gk.0
3 Cx damage mods
4 Cx Armor plates
1 Enh Armor plate
Duvolle (Prof 5 hitting 54.5)

Shields 112,Armor 940 (total 1052),Speed 6.15,CPU/PG left: 122 CPU/11PG (Enough to fit AT LEAST a Quantum active scanner.locus grenades,and 2 compact nanohives),Armor rep:5 per sec

---

Now is it 0.45 sprt speed ,a little more stamina and a STD sidearm worth 222 HP and enough CPU and PG to fit a Scanner plus compact nanos to repair? I think not. Hell, Most good players think not....

How come when I said almost the exact same thing, you vehemently disagreed?

Assault suit bonus: CPU/PG fitting reduction to all weapons and weapon mods. Assaults get access to better firepower, logis keep their survivability at the cost of less firepower. Sidearms stop being underrated and everyone can STFU about suits so we can ***** about TTK until CCP fixes it. Done and done.

Yeah, Cosgar, I think you got outgunned.

The Logi moves a bit slower, but, since both speed tanking is dead, and you can spawn a LAV wherever you want, That really doesn't make that big a difference.

Work on those bonuses then. The Logistics wide bonus is nice, but the new individual ones make some weak links. Hacking, for example, is almost useless in two of three game modes so Minmatar would be right out. Amarr have limited equips already, so giving them further reductions to the Scout-type equipment is nice but having lost their tank bonus to the Gallente it is far from good. The Cal and Gal Logi both have survivability bonuses, good in every situation.

BTW Ace of Jokers suggestion is GREAT, it's roughly the same I've been trumpeting for long (nerf on logi PG+CPU but big reduction bonus for Eq)

Still only going to survive a 1v1 encounter, maybe 2 if you have enough time to use up those compact hives. .

Thats the thing. It SURVIVES.It Wins.STILL you say? What the point of playing a FPS if its not Killing your opponent and Surviving?

.all this While the assault is failing at what hes supposed to do best.
The logi might be designed for adaptability, but the assaults are designed for ASSAULTING mostly,and they are being outdone by logis in every corner.
Players constantly flocking to the Logi side to be better assaults or scouts like myself are proof.

just respec when you get the chance..but you wont. You just want a different class than yours too suffer...if it really is OP then respec into it and stop crying.

Let me preface this thread by saying I want to discuss this idea, how it would affect the logi class, how it would be implemented, etc. If you disagree with the argument, I would urge you to explain why, because if you simply write, "lol this is a bad idea," then I will simply read it as, "pwease don't take away my crutch!"

Also, I'd like to throw out some stipulations before I make my own argument. First, Amarr logi's, in this situation, would receive only a single light weapon. Second, I would not expect CCP to implement this idea until there have been AT LEAST three more sidearms released for us to use, so that not every logi is running a Winmatar SMG.


Alright, so let me start with the implications. What would happen if every logi had to run a sidearm at this exact moment from now on? Well, I imagine that most logissaults would come to the forums to cry, and to be fair to them, it is a very drastic change, so a respec might be justified in this situation. (when I say respec, I mean specifically SP taken out of logi dropsuit command skills, and nothing else.) All pure logistics players, on the other hand, would also likely come to the forums to complain that their light weapon skills are now useless to them, so a respec specifically in the light weapons tree would also be justified. The logistics class as a whole would become more vulnerable, but not actually useless, there are people that run dual sidearms despite having a light weapon slot because they WANT to, I imagine logi's will still be able to defend themselves in CQC. Outside of CQC, of course, they would be shooting practice, so logi's that currently run lone-wolf mode(myself included) would be encouraged to stick close to team-mates to keep them safe over long distance combat.

Overall, it means that logi's can still combat, but not as effectively as assault players.


As for how it would be implemented, I would expect a few buffs to help the logi out with this extreme change. First, the maximum amount of equipment carried should be increased to five, so that Amarr/Caldari would get four slots at the proto tier, and Minmatar/Gallente would get five at proto. Obviously, this is strengthening the logistics role. Second, logi speed should be buffed to be exactly at level with assault, currently logi speed is about 5% below assault. This would allow logi's to keep pace with their assault brethren, so that they don't get left in the dust trying to keep up with a group. Lastly, stamina and stamina regeneration would be buffed to an area somewhere between assaults and scouts. Logistics suits will need to be mobile to cope with the new change, and this will help tremendously.

Overall, it makes the logistics class more logisctic-y.


So let's talk about the other classes and how they might be affected by this difference. Assault suits would become more popular, because a large majority of assault players are currently residing in god-mode logistics suits. Heavy suits would come out of hiding if they thought there was a high chance that they would find a logi bro in most games, and scouts would be pretty much the same. I think removal of the assault suit's equipment slots would be appropriate, to make logistics player more needed on the battlefield, and it would be wise to increase the scout's equipment max to two so that nanohives don't become too rare.

Overall, I'd say the other classes would be happy not getting outperformed in every way by the logi.


My TL;DR: Yes, I am advocating that the logistics class should get only a sidearm. If you didn't read the thread and just scrolled down here to get a quick version, then suck it up and read the rest of my post. Constructive criticism is welcomed if you actually have a reasonable argument, like I said before, don't give me a "lolno," because it makes you look like a crutch-using tool.

Why don't I need a light weapon? This is simple. My work is to keep my teammate alive. If I cannot do this then I am no logi. Every engagement, every battle comes down to communication and having a partner with which you can refine your tactics.

I have a partner and together we have a very different play style than most would think. First off we take it slow. We use cover. He doesn't run off like a crazy person trying to get kills. The goal is to win not to get KDR as high as he can.

Second we communicate. As I have my rep tool on him 24/7 he has to guard me. I am his lifeline and he is mine. In no moment does my Light weapon come into the equation. HE IS MY WEAPON.

True logi's look at a post like this and the only thing thy see is, as the OP hinted to, all my wasted SP into light weaponry and they would be correct to care about that. But a true logi doesn't give a rats ass about his weapon because Like i said earlier "YOUR PARTNER IS YOUR WEAPON"