Too many games are balanced on the concept of free vehicles.This is what make trying to make Dust 514 vehicles feel just 'right' extraordinarily difficult because they don't rain from the sky for free. Someone paid for those tanks, as does everything that tank can kill.

This is why making the tank too good is considerably a bad thing because it can negate everyone's else's investments in both skill points in isk quickly to the point that the infantry interplay is non existent. Which is the current industry standard, From the call of duty expansion pack multiplayer games to halo, to unreal, to even more recently Plane Side 2 included. Earlier builds such as E3 had tanks that was designed stats wise on this model almost and they where largely obscurely very dangerous racking up nearly up to 40-70 kills by its lonesome. Matches quickly digested down to who can deploy the most tanks first and fastest. Once on field and one side did not have sufficient amount of HAVs on the field the match was by and large over. People couldn't spawn, people could call in other vehicles and of course the team insufficient of tanks couldn't call orbitals either to which might I add the old age tanks laughed off.

During this age and time CCP Blam asserted that he believed that HAVs did not require infantry support, this drew quite a bit of ire from the infantry community at the time.

As Dust 514 continued to develop the HAV nerfs began to roll in one after the other to the point its now the reverse being in play. Tanks are not worth the sufficient amount of isk and sp investments to be effective on the field. While the HAVs on the edge its vehicles like the standard dropship that have seem to fallen off the table in terms of isk per power projection. However not all is lost, its possible to dial it back a bit make the vehicles more worth their costs.

As it stands now Team Kong, consisting of the likes of CCP Wolfman and CCP Remnant are in charge of everything you touch on the battlefield from your controllers to each gun and suit, to have them in charge of vehicles as well is an extraordinarily smart move as it gets the entire picture singing the same song. 1.5 will feature the first set of massive revisions with subsequent patches adding back in all that was nuked out of existence in 1.5.

''yikes. Every tanker who plays the tank will say the opposite with 100% of shield tankers crying after they read your statement :( but i respect your opinion''

Exactly , people will ALWAYS whine if they get killed. Thats what they want? to be able to take 10+ Proto AV shots to the face and survive? thats ALSO not balance.

I've faced tankers that have taken 5+ Proto swarms to the face and i even have their NAMES....
Knight Solaire with his missle tank IN a city being bombared by AV nades PLUS my proto swarm, survived. Kills 24/ deaths 1
Frost Byte, Took 6 Proto swarms to the face in his tank,survived and hid while i was ressuplying,. kills19 / deaths 0
BUGGBUNNY LOONEY took 9 Packed AV nades and survived,went to hide behind the red line to regen (thing im AGAINST with vehicles) or recall the tank. 15 kills / 0 deaths manus peak (here were 2 other tanks too...)
NINJAROBOTCHICKEN... (i dont know he had a really long name) took 6 Proto Forge guns to the face from 2 Proto AV specialists and survived... 38 kills / 0 deaths in Line Harvest

I could go on, with names, and numbers, forever (I ACTUALLY WRITE THEM DOWN,with time and date).Im not talking out of my a** here bro.

It really annoys me see people saying how bad tanks are, and then go 25+ kills and zero deaths games for 5-10 games in a row....

''soo anyone gona comment back to my OP, that is okay for skilled infaintry players to go 30+ kills and 0 but its OP for vehicals to do so?''

ITs not OP,but its unfait for a tank to go 30 kills with little risk of dying, while going 30 kills even with an AR and not dying at least three times is almost impossible.

PPl say they are bad because they have invested around 11mill SP into an armor tank to survive that sort of punnishment but can be so easily destroyed by any mode of cooperation. Those are quality tankers you were attempting to solo, and if they took that much effort to kill they must have been full HP with their active mods ready to go. So yeah the very best tanks can get away from a single proto AV user, but they quickly die to 2 or more AV users. Wich is fair, i think. But it doesent change the fact that tanks are bad cuz their so easy to kill. A shield tank will get soloed in under 8 seconds by a proto forge as well, never mind any 2 ppl with forges.

But to keep my thread revilant about how this is about infaintry being alowed to do well and tanks are not allowed to do well or their OP, if an infaintry soldier wins a 2v1 or a 3v1 its fair, perfectly balanced and that guy is skilled. But if a skilled tanker kills 2 or 3 people armed with assualt rifiles then its OP. I... dont understand. Very biased

In my (limited) experience, most of the infantry guys that go 30-0 were snipers, 1.4 shut them down a bit with objective cover. Assault players generally lose a clone or 3

No problem with tanks going 35-0 hell I say reduce the price 50% on tanks and there turrets. Tanks are large gun platforms that have the ability to chew through us infantry and one good tanker with a lot of sp invested should be a game changer. They can be killed by av, not easily but 2-3 speced avers can pop it. Same way a infantry can go 35-0 or 35-3 a tank has the ability but the price gives no real reward for going balls deep and making a difference and not sitting on a hill. Untill tanks are proto upped again a reduced price is more than fair.

A proto swarms scrub

No problem with tanks going 35-0 hell I say reduce the price 50% on tanks and there turrets. Tanks are large gun platforms that have the ability to chew through us infantry and one good tanker with a lot of sp invested should be a game changer. They can be killed by av, not easily but 2-3 speced avers can pop it. Same way a infantry can go 35-0 or 35-3 a tank has the ability but the price gives no real reward for going balls deep and making a difference and not sitting on a hill. Untill tanks are proto upped again a reduced price is more than fair.

A proto swarms scrub

Anyone who says tanks do not need infantry support is a fool, I am so glad you took tanks out of the hands of Blam after he said that. Even the M1 abrams needs infantry support, the tank is designed to draw fire (by looking intimidating) but they either run in large colums or with a gaggle of infantry with them. Never solo.

PPl say they are bad because they have invested around 11mill SP into an armor tank to survive that sort of punnishment but can be so easily destroyed by any mode of cooperation. ==> Coop can be defeated with Co op, dont liek loosing tanks? get 2 team members in an LAV with good A.infantry weaponry to circle the tank making swarms harder to lock on on he tank and to take down AV enemy infantry. Coop + tanks = Secure win.
Example,I was using a MLT tank but i had 2 buddies from my corp to actually take care of AV infantry for me, And io went 33-0 with a MLT tank,NOTHING added LOL. PLUS,coop is supposed to overcome ANYTHING, even a 11sp 2million ISK tank...


Those are quality tankers you were attempting to solo, and if they took that much effort to kill they must have been full HP with their active mods ready to go. So yeah the very best tanks can get away from a single proto AV user, but they quickly die to 2 or more AV users. Wich is fair, i think. But it doesent change the fact that tanks are bad cuz their so easy to kill. A shield tank will get soloed in under 8 seconds by a proto forge as well, never mind any 2 ppl with forges.
==Again, you are talking about CO - Op killing tanks easily, now imagine Coop With tanks. The problem is tankers want to get in a game,get kills solo without any form of cooperation.Even IRL,tanks need support.


But to keep my thread revilant about how this is about infaintry being alowed to do well and tanks are not allowed to do well or their OP, if an infaintry soldier wins a 2v1 or a 3v1 its fair, perfectly balanced and that guy is skilled. But if a skilled tanker kills 2 or 3 people armed with assualt rifiles then its OP. I... dont understand. Very biased
Maybe.But that player that took on 2-3 enemy reds did not pack 6000 EHP plus active/passive resistance modules.....

Agree. i wasent there to see how tanks wrecked face by themselfs but im glad they dont do that anymore

...As it stands now Team Kong, consisting of the likes of CCP Wolfman and CCP Remnant are in charge of everything you touch on the battlefield from your controllers to each gun and suit, to have them in charge of vehicles as well is an extraordinarily smart move as it gets the entire picture singing the same song. 1.5 will feature the first set of massive revisions with subsequent patches adding back in all that was nuked out of existence in 1.5.

''yikes. Every tanker who plays the tank will say the opposite with 100% of shield tankers crying after they read your statement :( but i respect your opinion''

Exactly , people will ALWAYS whine if they get killed. Thats what they want? to be able to take 10+ Proto AV shots to the face and survive? thats ALSO not balance.

I've faced tankers that have taken 5+ Proto swarms to the face and i even have their NAMES....
Knight Solaire with his missle tank IN a city being bombared by AV nades PLUS my proto swarm, survived. Kills 24/ deaths 1
Frost Byte, Took 6 Proto swarms to the face in his tank,survived and hid while i was ressuplying,. kills19 / deaths 0
BUGGBUNNY LOONEY took 9 Packed AV nades and survived,went to hide behind the red line to regen (thing im AGAINST with vehicles) or recall the tank. 15 kills / 0 deaths manus peak (here were 2 other tanks too...)
NINJAROBOTCHICKEN... (i dont know he had a really long name) took 6 Proto Forge guns to the face from 2 Proto AV specialists and survived... 38 kills / 0 deaths in Line Harvest

I could go on, with names, and numbers, forever (I ACTUALLY WRITE THEM DOWN,with time and date).Im not talking out of my a** here bro.

It really annoys me see people saying how bad tanks are, and then go 25+ kills and zero deaths games for 5-10 games in a row....

''soo anyone gona comment back to my OP, that is okay for skilled infaintry players to go 30+ kills and 0 but its OP for vehicals to do so?''

ITs not OP,but its unfait for a tank to go 30 kills with little risk of dying, while going 30 kills even with an AR and not dying at least three times is almost impossible.

That's perfectly fine by me, Wolf Saber. I've got all my SP tied up in HAV's right now because my ultimate goal, as I'm constantly ranting about, is to make a defensive orientated tank that eats damage for breakfast. That's seriously all I want. In MMO's, I play tanking characters: Warriors, Paladins, Death Knights, Sith Juggernauts, Powertech bounty hunters, you name it. For dust I want to build the ultimate expression of my obsession with maximum defense: A tanking tank!

It's going to be ******* glorious! My HAV's already work halfway towards that goal: They attract enemy attention like a boss, the trick is surviving that attention. When 1.5 drops, I have no doubt at all that the mobile fortress of my dreams will finally be realized. Waste your rockets trying to kill me, spunk-munchers, while my teammates shoot you in the face! AHAHAHAHA!

i dont often see proto AV users speaking up for tanks. Its refreshing

1: I've seen higher with assaults.

2: If you dye in a HAV, your ****** for the next couple games.

''I know it's frustrating to see a tanker go 25+ kills per match for 5-10 matches (suspect hyperbole) but thats what it takes for tankers to make a profit, dead serious a good fit runs a mill + a contract pays out 250 for topping the board these days, that's 5 matches to break even. if you want to see tankers get blowed up every match then petition CCP to scale the pay of vehicle operators so they can afford to lose one every match.''

Nope, i've already posted this before: Tanks and their specific modules/weapons etc, need a 1/3 price reduction to match their preformance.

Also, i top 350k-400isk per game so i dont really know how much redline sniping you guys are doing only earning 250k isk per match....

Agree. i wasent there to see how tanks wrecked face by themselfs but im glad they dont do that anymore

yeah... checkmate this guy just proved your earlier statements right. lol. im waiting for someone to post the opposite, saying tanks should be soloed in all circumstances. Those are both promblems.... ppl are so bad at balance its giving me canscer

My best swarm suit fully invested to do one thing and pop that git who shot me with a particle cannon costs me 170 thousand isk with damage mods out the arse. That tank may cost 2 million or more. I see no fairness in that. His risk is much more than mine and this game is anout making enough money to run fun fits. I spend 1 to 2 games in cheap gear to recover my money. You spend maybe 10 or more. Ive got no issue with you tankers or tanks and ive been proto aving since god mode chromosome tanks where in. NOW they where a real game to hunt.

I just went 36/0, and killed 4 LAV's, 2 HAV's, a dropships, and 9 of an assortment of installations, and only got 234k ISK. Come again?

I just went 36/0, and killed 4 LAV's, 2 HAV's, a dropships, and 9 of an assortment of installations, and only got 234k ISK. Come again?

I just went 36/0, and killed 4 LAV's, 2 HAV's, a dropships, and 9 of an assortment of installations, and only got 234k ISK. Come again?

you have not idea, even post e3 build (I joined last august) man you'd go into a match and on the other team there'd be like 3 STB-(namehere) guys and you'd know that you were gonna lose, at the time I was in Zion TCD though it was before we had official corps just persistent chat channels. but STB just spammed missile gunnlogis and sagarises and I hated them for it.