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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
8
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Posted - 2013.05.10 09:59:00 -
[211] - Quote
DS3 aiming at all ranges - but especially at 1-10M range - is absolutely atrocious. :( |
DeadlyAztec11
One-Armed Bandits
231
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 10:06:00 -
[212] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Al Lopestes wrote:Well. I set the sentivity to 60 for Keyboard and Mouse. i actually play better now. Mouse DPI? DeadlyAztec11 wrote:xJ4ySo wrote:Chromosome's aiming was WAY better, as well as the hit detection... That is just mad! No way! It is better now. I used to empty SMG mags into people and get no hitmarkers. Now I can actually get head shots on them... Way better, don't kid yourself cuh'. The hit detection is still botched, son. The only difference is that they removed the false blue shield flash effect so you think you're getting more legit kills now. Still better for me. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
218
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 10:24:00 -
[213] - Quote
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote:actually, what is a deadzone?
Ungh...lemme try to answer that one...
A deadzone is supposedly the point where the stick doesn't do anything, the bigger the deadzone the more you can yoink on the stick before it does something, lets say you yank on the stick to the left and you have a huge deadzone setting for left movement this will give you a notion of input lag because you moved to the left but it takes the controller a certain time to get out of its deadzone and start moving.
While this behavior is fine for platformers, it screws a shooter over royaly.
If the Analog stick has say 5 diffrent deadzones and they are all bogusly configured, you will get 5 diffrent input lag zones, or really odd behaviour because your brain says Left and up, your hand says left and up but the game does not go left until you get out the sticks deadzone, when you do get out of the deadzone you start to move left, now imagin the go UP deadzone is wrong and off from the go left zone, you are still going left but not yet up until you get out of that UP deadzone once you get out of that one, you will start going left and up.
You imagined or your brain predicted a straight line but on the screen you got more of a circular pattern.
Your Brain at this point climbs out of your skull and beats you to death with said controller.
A Mouse registers movement without deadzones, and when you move it moves, without waiting inside some cozy deadzone for accidentally touching the mouse, if you shake it, it shakes, if you accidently move it, your aim is off.
with the deadzone, we move the mouse a little JUST A LITTLE to adjust our aim but we moved it inside its deadzone and it translates as no movement on the screen, our brain reacts with additional movement to compensate and we fly right passed out target, we re-adjust back to target but again move too little and we don't move at all, so brain again thinks we need more movement and we fly passed target again.
Basically, what we have as input lag, are the deadzones creating a couple of ms of what we precieve as input lag, the bigger the zones, the bigger the percieved input lag or funky odd mouse behaviour if they run our mouses trough virtual control sticks.
Some people notice this behavior, while other peoples brains can fill in gaps much better.
I am not really sure how this translates to diffrent DPI mouse types, but on the eagle controller if you input a higher DPI or a lower DPI, you have to reconfigure all the deadzones again, same for polling rate, turn it up, and you get to reconfigre everything again.
If they keep going with a virtual Analog stick route, we will all require the exact same mouse or 20+ adjustable settings to tweak our different mouses to work with the games settings.
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5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
88
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Posted - 2013.05.10 10:39:00 -
[214] - Quote
Thanks for explaining Rei, so ideally there should be no deadzone for mouse...
the input lag is driving me nuts |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
219
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 10:48:00 -
[215] - Quote
5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote:Thanks for explaining Rei, so ideally there should be no deadzone for mouse...
the input lag is driving me nuts
No problem, i am not sure how a DS3 that is build around Deadzones coope with them but translating a Mouse into using Deadzones does not work.
My guess is that a stick needs the zones because its Thumb controlled and less precise as moving a wrist + arm, hence the entire debate about KB/M = OP.
Just a Guess though.
But for KB/M to work in this game we need raw mouse input as advertised, if we keep this Eagle Eye converter feeling in whats to be a competitive shooter it 1) won't ever be a E-Sport and 2) No sane pro KB/M user will stick around. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
378
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 10:56:00 -
[216] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:
Your Brain at this point climbs out of your skull and beats you to death with said controller.
Best explanation I've heard yet.
You should consider teaching college. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
222
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Posted - 2013.05.10 11:08:00 -
[217] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:
Your Brain at this point climbs out of your skull and beats you to death with said controller.
Best explanation I've heard yet. You should consider teaching college.
ROFL, i can already picture it...
Alright class, today we will be talking about Mouse Vs. Controller gameplay!
*Small Wave happens"
Alright alright sit back down everyone, so who here uses a controller! Ok those move to the left of the room, those that use a mouse move to the right of the room, take a new seat and sit DOWN!
Its going to be a little dangerous for you guys to sit near each other today...or the rest of the year...so ive hired security and a team of medics to see us trough class today without deaths.
Anyone here use the MOVE controller ? Oh you 4 ...use the move ...really ...GTFO of my class! MOVE ALREADY!!!
lol
|
Spaceman-Rob
Galactic Alliance 514
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:16:00 -
[218] - Quote
Can we please get a hotfix for the dualshock 3 and an apology for yet another **** up. Today would be fine? Thanks. |
Ten Wolves
D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:24:00 -
[219] - Quote
Agreed the aiming is really off with The Uprising. I'm not sure whats changed but something feels sluggish and its almost pointless to use my iron sights now. I'd much rather fire from the hip like I'm playing a COD game... that's not a good thing. |
tander09
RISE OF THE EMPIRE DARKSTAR ARMY
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:33:00 -
[220] - Quote
Yea, I often found meself shooting at enemies without makin a dent in dem. |
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CrotchGrab 360
Better Hide R Die
32
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:35:00 -
[221] - Quote
I'm not the kind of guy who makes quick decisions but I only had to play for 1 game to see the inherent flaw in the aiming system first-hand.
I may not be that good in DUST (never had to use iron sights, I don't like them) and I have little to no meta game but besides the lag I was good in MAG and I KNOW my aiming doesn't suck.
With that all being said I'll just wait until the 14th. Really Uprising shouldn't have come out until the 14th, speaking speculatively IF the aiming and other issues will be fixed on the 14th. |
DJINN serious issues
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:43:00 -
[222] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote:actually, what is a deadzone? Ungh...lemme try to answer that one... A deadzone is supposedly the point where the stick doesn't do anything, the bigger the deadzone the more you can yoink on the stick before it does something, lets say you yank on the stick to the left and you have a huge deadzone setting for left movement this will give you a notion of input lag because you moved to the left but it takes the controller a certain time to get out of its deadzone and start moving. While this behavior is fine for platformers, it screws a shooter over royaly. If the Analog stick has say 5 diffrent deadzones and they are all bogusly configured, you will get 5 diffrent input lag zones, or really odd behaviour because your brain says Left and up, your hand says left and up but the game does not go left until you get out the sticks deadzone, when you do get out of the deadzone you start to move left, now imagin the go UP deadzone is wrong and off from the go left zone, you are still going left but not yet up until you get out of that UP deadzone once you get out of that one, you will start going left and up. You imagined or your brain predicted a straight line but on the screen you got more of a circular pattern. Your Brain at this point climbs out of your skull and beats you to death with said controller. A Mouse registers movement without deadzones, and when you move it moves, without waiting inside some cozy deadzone for accidentally touching the mouse, if you shake it, it shakes, if you accidently move it, your aim is off. with the deadzone, we move the mouse a little JUST A LITTLE to adjust our aim but we moved it inside its deadzone and it translates as no movement on the screen, our brain reacts with additional movement to compensate and we fly right passed out target, we re-adjust back to target but again move too little and we don't move at all, so brain again thinks we need more movement and we fly passed target again. Basically, what we have as input lag, are the deadzones creating a couple of ms of what we precieve as input lag, the bigger the zones, the bigger the percieved input lag or funky odd mouse behaviour if they run our mouses trough virtual control sticks. Some people notice this behavior, while other peoples brains can fill in gaps much better. I am not really sure how this translates to diffrent DPI mouse types, but on the eagle controller if you input a higher DPI or a lower DPI, you have to reconfigure all the deadzones again, same for polling rate, turn it up, and you get to reconfigre everything again. If they keep going with a virtual Analog stick route, we will all require the exact same mouse or 20+ adjustable settings to tweak our different mouses to work with the games settings.
I think you are a little messed up. Wish I didn't just lose my last post but I'll try again.
Dead zone is not your issue here. I think some people are messed up on what dead zone is vs accelleration.
Dead zone is used to do just that. Create an input dead zone. The reason you may want to have an input dead zone is to cleanup noise on the input. This is not your problem with the DS3 or the mouse.
The old joysticks a lot of use used back in the old days of wing commander where analog pieces of crap. Springs wear out, analig sliders get dirty and suddenly your ship doesnt fly straight but bounces or drifts. How do you fix it? An input deadzone that you increase to encompass the noise.
The Move most likely needs this because the input from the camera is probably noisy. Coupled with range probably makes it hard to compensate for. My guess is that's why you see only the move with dead zone options.
The issue you all have is with the accelleration. The accelleration curve for both the DS3 and the mouse are backwards from what I can tell. It is easy to test and see.
Take a mouse. Try to make fine movements with sensitivity at 100. Nearly impossible. Now slowly move your mouse from one side of the pad from the other. You'll do a number of 360's. Now try again but much faster this time. You will notice the number of 360's drop. No wonder no one can aim or GTFO.
Take DS3. Try to make fine turns from say 0-60% or so. You notice the turn speed is almost constant. You have to move your finger only MMs to make fine movement. That is hard to do. Now snap from 0-100%. You can visually see you turn slow for about a second or so before the accelleration kicks in. In reality you want that second or so to ramp up in between 0-60% so you can make that fine aim. Then you want the 60-100% range snap to speed instantly. Now you can GTFO.
Backwards I say.
|
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
382
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:52:00 -
[223] - Quote
A battle of nerds.
I am intrigued.
Continue. |
DJINN serious issues
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 12:02:00 -
[224] - Quote
Cmdr Wang,
Your accelleration is still backwards after this hotfix.
|
Bethhy
Not Guilty EoN.
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 14:28:00 -
[225] - Quote
left the first page, needs to return. |
bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
92
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 14:35:00 -
[226] - Quote
Why don't you guys report your current findings (Even though mine are the same before and after the hotfix) in this thread
Even after today's supposed hotfix im irritated beyond belief trying to compensate for this horrible aiming at close range its like im fighting my mouse to hit the target... Can I get Dust workmans comp for carpal tunnel...
At this point I think the DS3 users would rather have us Mouse users have raw input or what ever it may be, because im pretty sure our values are effecting their values... |
Kwik Draw
Traitors Function
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 16:01:00 -
[227] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Toyboi wrote:[quote=Baal Omniscient]Every FPS has different sensitivity settings and you always have to adjust to them when you first play. This build may as well be a whole new game, so ADAPT. Track your taget carefully instead of getting excited when he starts strafing away from the center of your crosshairs. INTFH, if some of us with Ds3's are still owning, the rest of you can too. Pick up your game.
Edit: This does not apply to those of you with aim assist glitches. im so tied of reading post like this from GIGA noobs who has no idea wtf thay are doing ingame in the first place. DO NOT TELL ME TO ADAPT OR DIE... well you can but then you would have to say the same to a racedriver with no wheel so maybe you sholud consider that if you are doing good now you dident have any aim to begin with!
Riiiiiiiight.... I've been playing Dust for nearly a year and have adapted to every change they have thrown our way. I co-founded a corporation that has been around for over 8 months and has not left the top 20 since the last leaderboard reset despite never topping 130 members, I ran infantry during the missile spam, I ran AV during the GOD TANK rampage, I ran standard AR's during the BREACH AR GOD MODE craze, and I dodged flying RE's during the RE Frisbee free-for-all, and you think I have no idea what I'm doing? Oh god, where have YOU been this whole time? Because I have no idea how you're still here if you were here any longer than I have been and can't even adapt to a little sensitivity change.
It's not adapt or die. It's play with your sensitivity until you can manage, then practice until you get better. You all need to stop crying about it a ~
id rather they didnt practice :D |
Hawkings Greenback
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
30
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 16:13:00 -
[228] - Quote
Naweedd wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Hi guys,
We are working on an update for the MKB sensitivity settings to try and address the issues that have been reported. Could I also ask that when you post feedback on the controls you can specify what control method you are using because is not always easy to distinguish if the problems being reported are for MKB, DS3 or for a third party controller. It would also be useful if you could let us know if you were also experiencing any performance issues with lag or poor frame rate at the same time.
Will keep you up to date.
Cheers
CCP Wolfman
DS3 ! Why not fix that first??? Most of the people use a standard DS3 -_-
yup |
Protected Void
One-Armed Bandits
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 19:39:00 -
[229] - Quote
Well, if there weren't more fixes/changes done today than in the downtime announcement, I'm a three-legged, purple cow. With a goiter for a nose.
I've played three matches to make sure it's not just luck, but no: I'm consistantly able to aim properly. If I miss, it feels like my own fault. And I get more kills than deaths again. Woohoo!
The aiming feels like before the Uprising update. Aiming down barrel has certainly been fixed - the gun is no longer jumping around like crazy, instead it's actually improving accuracy.
I've made no changes to my controls since last night, when I wasn't able to bring anyones shield down to more than half.
I'm on the PS3 standard controller, X sensitivity 50, Y sensitivity 40, aim assist off. |
Icy Xenosmilus
Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic
171
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:20:00 -
[230] - Quote
Trying now. |
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Frodaris Sortana 2100058545
DUST University Ivy League
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:22:00 -
[231] - Quote
I'll give that a shot later, see if the aiming is indeed fixed up. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 20:26:00 -
[232] - Quote
You guys sure it isnt the damage boost saving your butts?
Ive said from the beginning aiming seems fine and the issue seems to be constant firing with full automatic rifles instead of bursting. If the damage increase is helping you kill before the recoil starts messing you up, it could seem like your aim is better, when the reality is, its just the higher damage killing them sooner. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2909
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 21:02:00 -
[233] - Quote
DJINN serious issues wrote:Take DS3. Try to make fine turns from say 0-60% range on the analog stick. You notice the turn speed is pretty constant. You have to move your finger only MMs to make fine movement. That is hard to do. Now snap from 0-100%. You can visually see you turn slow for about a second or so before the accelleration kicks in. In reality you want that second or so to ramp up in between 0-60% so you can make that fine aim. Then you want the 60-100% range snap to speed instantly. Now you can GTFO. That's NOT what I see when using my Sixaxis controller.
Tilt stick about 3%. Nothing. Deadzone. In Chromosome, this was more like 20%, and this was a problem. Also, 20% was when you turned the Move deadzone to 0, if you didn't, it was up to 30%, which was just game-breaking. I'm happy with there being a very small deadzone to account for a loose stick.
Tilt stick about 5%. Almost full speed instantly when I'm at sensitivity 100. Not quite full speed, but maybe 70 - 80%. After about a half-second, it ramps up to actually full speed.
What I WANTED was about 5% speed, that's why I was only pushing the stick a short distance. A window up to 20% where you get about 15% speed, then incremental increases the further you move the stick would be good.
Instantly shove stick to 100% pressure. At sensitivity 100, I don't get full speed. I get almost full speed, maybe 80 - 90%, with it ramping up over about half a second. If that sounds familiar, it's because it's only marginally better speed than when I'm barely moving the stick at all.
So I turn sensitivity down to 0. Now, when I tilt the stick to about 5%, I get about 5% speed. That's nice, but when I HOLD the stick at 5% trying to keep my aim on a slow-moving (or distant) target, I instead have my speed gradually ramp up to 100% over a second or two.
Shove the stick all the way over, and I get maybe, MAYBE as much as 6% turn speed, with the same gradual acceleration.
I want the ability to control my aim MYSELF, instead of the game's acceleration curve controlling it for me.
Another problem is with Aim Assist. I don't often use long-range weapons, and having Aim Assist on doesn't signifcantly distort my aim at long range like some Sixaxis users have reported. Having it turned on means that I can actually play the game in CQC. When I turn it off, that 5% tilt that normally produced near-full turning speed doesn't just give me 80% turn speed any more. It gives me something like 300% turn speed, so I spin and end up not only overshooting my target, but overshooting by almost 90 degrees. If there's no enemy within about a 5m radius, turning works as I described above, not ideal, but workable. When I'm at the kind of range where I want to be fighting with a Shotgun, I can't aim with Aim Assist turned off. With it on, Turning when an enemy is close AND in front of me means that I bleed off ALL my turn speed when turning away from the enemy, so it nerfs my ability to say "kitten this" and run, but it makes it actually possible to try and hit a target when I want to.
The same acceleration cureve is a problem - and a much more troublesome one - for mouse users. You move the mouse at a constant speed, and you DON'T get a constant turn speed from doing so. You have your turn speed gradually ramped up the longer you keep going. You DO, however, have the advantage of a very slow movement giving you a low starting turn speed, but other than that, it's screwed up so horribly it's not worth plugging in a mouse until this is actually made right.. |
Protected Void
One-Armed Bandits
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 21:02:00 -
[234] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:You guys sure it isnt the damage boost saving your butts?
Ive said from the beginning aiming seems fine and the issue seems to be constant firing with full automatic rifles instead of bursting. If the damage increase is helping you kill before the recoil starts messing you up, it could seem like your aim is better, when the reality is, its just the higher damage killing them sooner.
Nah. The recent damage boost was 10 percent, which just can't account for the vast improvement I'm seeing today. Besides, half the time when I was playing yesterday, I was lucky if I could land enough shots to make even a slight dent in my opponent's shield at all. Typically, I would hit once or twice before I was killed Today, I see their shield and armor bars go down in 5-10 single steps, indicating I'm landing that many shots - just the way it was before the update.
If anything other than the aiming algos have been messing up the aim, I'm guessing it's network issues. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
311
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 01:56:00 -
[235] - Quote
Aiming with the DS3 still needs work. I tried a bunch of games today just to see what changes were made and it feels a little better, but it's hard to tell if that's just because I'm getting more used to it.
CQC fights are still awkward and overall it just doesn't feel right. Still holding out hope for reverting to Chromosome's aiming system. |
bolsh lee
Ahrendee Mercenaries
96
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:04:00 -
[236] - Quote
No improvement here, the slightest movement left and right sends it wildly out off the target then the irritating challenge of trying to fight you movement to land it on a guy........... Scout shotgun builds are amazing right now because of how **** this tracking is.. |
Ordo Malachai
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:05:00 -
[237] - Quote
Turning Aim Assist 'OFF" made a huge improvement for me, both at closish ranges with an AR and (especially) at long range with SR.
Aim Assist is a horrible abomination of a thing at the best of times, but DUST has taken it to a new level. Also, if the universe is supposed to be so harsh, why do we have a magical 'guy in the sky' supposedly helping us with aim?
Edit: I see others are also saying that aim has suddenly improved, might be that as much as AA off. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2917
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:16:00 -
[238] - Quote
After some playtime, I've found that I can actually do precise aim now - they appear to have fixed the problem with aim scaling that I was having before today.
Not sure if they fixed Aim Assist though, have been to afraid to turn it off yet. WIll try in the next day or so and confirm. |
Blind Nojoy
G I A N T EoN.
27
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:22:00 -
[239] - Quote
Aim assist should not exist. Or be an option only for new players in these upcoming training pubbies. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
147
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 09:21:00 -
[240] - Quote
I would laugh so hard if it turns out that all these people who are GÇ£fixedGÇ¥ are full of junk because CCP did nothing and lied.
Megalolz would be had.
On the other hand I look forward to getting home and trying it! |
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