DUST Search - Aiming is A MASSIVE PROBLEM

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Rei Shepard wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

So the entire problem is that the game thinks the mouse is an analog stick?

Are you serious?

Wow.... what a blunder.

Its really easy to spot, when you go into your equipment selection for a nano hive, your mouse selection behaves really jitterish as if it can only do certain angles but not all of them as before on the chromosone build where the wheel was really smooth all around.

The Eagle Eye converter that i have been fiddling with has the exact same issue because it translates mouse movement to analog stick movement and it since it uses angle correction to predict a straight line of movement you cannot go from point A to B in a circular motion because it converts it to a linear set of motion.

The main diffrence however is the Eagle eye allows for 10 Seperate Deadzones to be set, Adjustable Angle correction but if you adjust this too much you will get see all your micro movements instead of going from left to right in a straight line you get a zig zag motion up & down while going left & right. Angle correction deals with those micro movements.

Then you also have sensetivity adjustments for both axises and the same for being scoped in.

If you think about it since Y & X axis sens is off i need to run aprox a 20% - 30% difrence to get a circle pattern, witch most peoples mice cant do btw, but ingame DS3 users can set diffrent sensetivities for both axis.

In dust all you get is a Sensetivity slider and thats as far as your tweaking goes.

Then there are 1001 diffrent Mouses, all with diffrent DPI, Polling & whatsnot settings.

Theres however only 1 type of DS3, and any knockoff's are build to specification.

Good enough points. I think you've done your research well and I agree.

Someone at CCP made an absolutely insane decision over this.

I think we should space them.

WOLFMAN! WHO DID IT?


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Rei Shepard Spectre II 201	Posted - 2013.05.09 07:13:00 - [1] - Quote I am not even playing until they fix the aiming and i was mega hyped for uprising. If you couldn't aim a damn before this patch, your fine, you still cant aim a damn and will likely get more kills because they pulled everyone down to your level and you are beating them with Experience. We on the other hand seem to be fighting our aiming cursor instead of the actual opponent. I dont get it, i really dont why they needed to Fix what was possible a really good aiming system. I am running around all seems better, tweaked some settings, but the moment i get near targets AIM says "GOOD LUCK" and slams the door shut and walks away, leaving me wrestling to get my cursor moving. Guy sidesteps, sidesteps again and i cant even get him in my sights so i keep straight and strafe fire, as does he and while we waste 2 clips trying to hit each other from 5 feet away , another guy jumps me, in chromosone I would be sooo very dead! But in uprising, another person with an aiming disability derps up the combat as we strafe and strafe and fire air bullets at each other, eventually the first guy looses intrest and runs off. We are still at least at 50% shields at this point and minus 3 clips, we go at it some more, run out of bullets i swap to my Sidearm and repeat ....eventually i KILL him !!! BOOYEAH...it really was a close fight i had 15% armor left!!! EPIC KILL!!! .....or not... /Shut down PS3 as it seemed they did not fix aiming in yesterdays patch
Rei Shepard Spectre II 205	Posted - 2013.05.09 13:31:00 - [2] - Quote DarkMaximos wrote: Hope they fix the aiming before release or Dust 514 will be teared apart by reviews and new players will quit in an instant, you don't that to happen don't you ccp? If i came in right now instead of at the start of chromosone, it would already have deleted Dust, moved on and forever forgotten about it and idd be back in APB R. I could get 17/3 on a 0 sp spend militia alt in chromosone, right now i cant kill anything unless it walks straight into my crosshair, face first! Baal Omniscient wrote: Every FPS has different sensitivity settings and you always have to adjust to them when you first play. This build may as well be a whole new game, so ADAPT. Track your taget carefully instead of getting excited when he starts strafing away from the center of your crosshairs. INTFH, if some of us with Ds3's are still owning, the rest of you can too. Pick up your game. Edit: This does not apply to those of you with aim assist glitches. From someone who when sees me on the opposing team, never leaves his LAV and only tries to run over people, yeah i am sure aiming with the front end of the LAV is fine... DS3's controls are not so far off as to be completely broken with KB/M, how do i know ? I plug in my Eagle Eye Converter that converts me KB/M input straight to DS3 controlls and it works BETTER then using the native KB/M setup. Native KB/M i can get a 2/2, 0/2, 3/3 if i am lucky Eagle Eye Converter i can get 10/0, 13/1, 12/2 etc Hell i never played with a controller and i manage to kill more then with my 20 years of Experience with KB/M...
Rei Shepard Spectre II 205	Posted - 2013.05.09 14:27:00 - [3] - Quote ZiwZih wrote: This post has to stay on top. +1 i agree
Rei Shepard Spectre II 208	Posted - 2013.05.09 16:39:00 - [4] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Lol. Look, the old system had issues, the new system has issues. But heres how I know the new system is fundementally better... Single shot weapons are more accurate and usable now than they were before. Scrambler + Tact AR are the dominate weapons this build. Why would that be the case if the aiming system was worse? These are skill weapons, not spray and pray. From my small use of the gek, it seemed way harder until I started bursting instead of holding down the trigger, then it seemed to work well. There may be something weird going on with bullet dispersion and automatic weapons, but "aim" and "hit detection" seem better. How is not being able to keep my sight onto the opponent no matter what setting better ?
Rei Shepard Spectre II 209	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:37:00 - [5] - Quote Well i just ran a 25/3 after fiddling with my controls since Uprising Launch and its my best score ever since, before these were scores idd go damn i sucked....kinda of a score, but hey at least i can hit the side of a barn again! You DO not want to know how i made it work but ill explain it anyways... First of all you need a Mouse with separate Adjustable DPI axises "120 or so $" Set X axis at 2600 DPI and Y axis at 3000 DPI or the otherway around, This made me be able to aim in a circle pattern again. Then you plug both Mouse & Keyboard into an Eagle Eye KB/M to DS3 converter "90$ or so +-) Adjust ingame DS3 X & Y axises to 60%. Then set all the Look Deadzones to 24, 12, 17, 11, 25 and Eagle Sensitivity X axis to 1, Y axis to 2, angle correction to 10, rotation speed is left at 127. Then set all the Scope mode to exactly the same. Once ingame you don't HIPFIRE ever! Theres ontop of the aiming seems to be something very screwy about hit detection or where your bullets go when firing from the hip...always ADS and track the opponent even in cqc and kill it with ADS Fire. Though it is nearly impossible to play as to turn around i need 3 times the full distance of my mousemat and its a steel series large mat. But at least the ADS targetting is 100 % consistent with these settings, no acceleration!! is left over at only 210$ value...
Rei Shepard Spectre II 210	Posted - 2013.05.09 17:48:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: bravo, we found a solution It only took me 4 days fiddling with the Eagle Eye, but really its not how you wanna play the game, you can plug it in do advanced setup and do better then using the KB/M input raw. But the funny part is, the eagle eye has issues with the mouse when you select equipment, the mouse ingame has the exact same issue when selecting equipment -> The mouse input is driving the Analog Stick that is driving your aimdot. Basically they put an Eagle Eye controller inbetween, but without actually being able to adjust our settings ourselves.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 210	Posted - 2013.05.09 18:01:00 - [7] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: I love the brag "8.3 K/D score was so 'ugh im bad'" OMG YOU MUST BE SO GOOD AT DUST! Thx
Rei Shepard Spectre II 211	Posted - 2013.05.09 18:32:00 - [8] - Quote Khan Hun wrote: Urhh this is like trying to eat a meal with cutlery a meter long. SO frustrating and suddenly you get a tasty bit of fun, then its back to clawing your face of in annoyance. +1 for you still having a face to claw at, i am clawing at the bone since yesterday...
Rei Shepard Spectre II 217	Posted - 2013.05.10 08:38:00 - [9] - Quote ZiwZih wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Well i just ran a 25/3 after fiddling with my controls since Uprising Launch and its my best score ever since, before these were scores idd go damn i sucked....kinda of a score, but hey at least i can hit the side of a barn again! You DO not want to know how i made it work but ill explain it anyways... First of all you need a Mouse with separate Adjustable DPI axises "120 or so $" Set X axis at 2600 DPI and Y axis at 3000 DPI or the otherway around, This made me be able to aim in a circle pattern again. Then you plug both Mouse & Keyboard into an Eagle Eye KB/M to DS3 converter "90$ or so +-) Adjust ingame DS3 X & Y axises to 60%. Then set all the Look Deadzones to 24, 12, 17, 11, 25 and Eagle Sensitivity X axis to 1, Y axis to 2, angle correction to 10, rotation speed is left at 127. Then set all the Scope mode to exactly the same. Once ingame you don't HIPFIRE ever! Theres ontop of the aiming seems to be something very screwy about hit detection or where your bullets go when firing from the hip...always ADS and track the opponent even in cqc and kill it with ADS Fire. Though it is nearly impossible to play as to turn around i need 3 times the full distance of my mousemat and its a steel series large mat. But at least the ADS targetting is 100 % consistent with these settings, no acceleration!! is left over at only 210$ value... +1 for passion! I hope it doesn't go unnoticed... For all of us. If only time spend on it translated to 100% fixed controlls then idd be happy, but allas its just a bandaid and they should treat this as their number 1 priority to fix, i can live with skills not applying bonusses or battle server instabilities, i dont need back-end fixes or black screen fixes. I just want to play the game and not feeling penalized because i play purely on muscle memory and reaction speed. CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, We are working on an update for the MKB sensitivity settings to try and address the issues that have been reported. Could I also ask that when you post feedback on the controls you can specify what control method you are using because is not always easy to distinguish if the problems being reported are for MKB, DS3 or for a third party controller. It would also be useful if you could let us know if you were also experiencing any performance issues with lag or poor frame rate at the same time. Will keep you up to date. Cheers CCP Wolfman Could you inform us as to why you thought it was a good idea to have the Mouse drive a virtual emulation of the DS3's analog stick ? Just from fiddling with the Eagle Eye Converter, no matter how well you are going to tune it, you will always feel it in the back of your brain that you are driving a stick instead of raw mouse input. No amount of tweaking will hide that fact, and it feels very wrong, we play using our wrist/arm some play with ultra small movements while others use big circle type movements and frankly a thumb stick always uses exactly the same movements, ie: you cant press it out of bounds, you cant lift it up, you cant twist it. So why does 2 completely different schemes of control need to be put under a DS3 virtual control scheme ? Makes completely no sense and it will never be the same, you are just screwing over 1 control scheme to make another scheme "better" or more balanced... And quite frankly i know who the good DS3 users are, and they were on par or better then me, but we had close fights, if i walk into them with the current scheme, well i cant even hit a blueberry thats standing still. Just roll back the previous Mouse controlls....
Rei Shepard Spectre II 217	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:06:00 - [10] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: So the entire problem is that the game thinks the mouse is an analog stick? Are you serious? Wow.... what a blunder. Its really easy to spot, when you go into your equipment selection for a nano hive, your mouse selection behaves really jitterish as if it can only do certain angles but not all of them as before on the chromosone build where the wheel was really smooth all around. The Eagle Eye converter that i have been fiddling with has the exact same issue because it translates mouse movement to analog stick movement and it since it uses angle correction to predict a straight line of movement you cannot go from point A to B in a circular motion because it converts it to a linear set of motion. The main diffrence however is the Eagle eye allows for 10 Seperate Deadzones to be set, Adjustable Angle correction but if you adjust this too much you will get see all your micro movements instead of going from left to right in a straight line you get a zig zag motion up & down while going left & right. Angle correction deals with those micro movements. Then you also have sensetivity adjustments for both axises and the same for being scoped in. If you think about it since Y & X axis sens is off i need to run aprox a 20% - 30% difrence to get a circle pattern, witch most peoples mice cant do btw, but ingame DS3 users can set diffrent sensetivities for both axis. In dust all you get is a Sensetivity slider and thats as far as your tweaking goes. Then there are 1001 diffrent Mouses, all with diffrent DPI, Polling & whatsnot settings. Theres however only 1 type of DS3, and any knockoff's are build to specification.

Rei Shepard Spectre II 218	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:38:00 - [11] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: So the entire problem is that the game thinks the mouse is an analog stick? Are you serious? Wow.... what a blunder. Its really easy to spot, when you go into your equipment selection for a nano hive, your mouse selection behaves really jitterish as if it can only do certain angles but not all of them as before on the chromosone build where the wheel was really smooth all around. The Eagle Eye converter that i have been fiddling with has the exact same issue because it translates mouse movement to analog stick movement and it since it uses angle correction to predict a straight line of movement you cannot go from point A to B in a circular motion because it converts it to a linear set of motion. The main diffrence however is the Eagle eye allows for 10 Seperate Deadzones to be set, Adjustable Angle correction but if you adjust this too much you will get see all your micro movements instead of going from left to right in a straight line you get a zig zag motion up & down while going left & right. Angle correction deals with those micro movements. Then you also have sensetivity adjustments for both axises and the same for being scoped in. If you think about it since Y & X axis sens is off i need to run aprox a 20% - 30% difrence to get a circle pattern, witch most peoples mice cant do btw, but ingame DS3 users can set diffrent sensetivities for both axis. In dust all you get is a Sensetivity slider and thats as far as your tweaking goes. Then there are 1001 diffrent Mouses, all with diffrent DPI, Polling & whatsnot settings. Theres however only 1 type of DS3, and any knockoff's are build to specification. Good enough points. I think you've done your research well and I agree. Someone at CCP made an absolutely insane decision over this. I think we should space them. WOLFMAN! WHO DID IT? Thx
Rei Shepard Spectre II 218	Posted - 2013.05.10 09:41:00 - [12] - Quote Quote: #1 Posted: 2013.05.10 09:38 \| Report Dear players, Today DUST 514 will go offline for an extended period of time starting from 11:00 GMT. Server is expected to come back up at 12:00 GMT. Today's hotfix will apply following changes: HMG Rebalance (more in-depth information to come in the upcoming post from CCP Wolfman) and 10% bonus damage to all handheld weapons Fix to PG/CPU skills for vehicles not applying properly Fix to vehicle upgrade skills not correctly applying bonuses to vehicles Fixing playable areas (red line expansion) on some Ambush maps where players would spawn in odd locations Fixing Vehicle engineering skill description Mouse sensitivity tweaks applied Call for help should now trigger automatically to further help logistics players revive their allies Various battleserver stability fixes Thank you for your patience and understanding. I hope they did more then just tweaks, or maybe they used my deadzone settings lol :p
Rei Shepard Spectre II 218	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:24:00 - [13] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote: actually, what is a deadzone? Ungh...lemme try to answer that one... A deadzone is supposedly the point where the stick doesn't do anything, the bigger the deadzone the more you can yoink on the stick before it does something, lets say you yank on the stick to the left and you have a huge deadzone setting for left movement this will give you a notion of input lag because you moved to the left but it takes the controller a certain time to get out of its deadzone and start moving. While this behavior is fine for platformers, it screws a shooter over royaly. If the Analog stick has say 5 diffrent deadzones and they are all bogusly configured, you will get 5 diffrent input lag zones, or really odd behaviour because your brain says Left and up, your hand says left and up but the game does not go left until you get out the sticks deadzone, when you do get out of the deadzone you start to move left, now imagin the go UP deadzone is wrong and off from the go left zone, you are still going left but not yet up until you get out of that UP deadzone once you get out of that one, you will start going left and up. You imagined or your brain predicted a straight line but on the screen you got more of a circular pattern. Your Brain at this point climbs out of your skull and beats you to death with said controller. A Mouse registers movement without deadzones, and when you move it moves, without waiting inside some cozy deadzone for accidentally touching the mouse, if you shake it, it shakes, if you accidently move it, your aim is off. with the deadzone, we move the mouse a little JUST A LITTLE to adjust our aim but we moved it inside its deadzone and it translates as no movement on the screen, our brain reacts with additional movement to compensate and we fly right passed out target, we re-adjust back to target but again move too little and we don't move at all, so brain again thinks we need more movement and we fly passed target again. Basically, what we have as input lag, are the deadzones creating a couple of ms of what we precieve as input lag, the bigger the zones, the bigger the percieved input lag or funky odd mouse behaviour if they run our mouses trough virtual control sticks. Some people notice this behavior, while other peoples brains can fill in gaps much better. I am not really sure how this translates to diffrent DPI mouse types, but on the eagle controller if you input a higher DPI or a lower DPI, you have to reconfigure all the deadzones again, same for polling rate, turn it up, and you get to reconfigre everything again. If they keep going with a virtual Analog stick route, we will all require the exact same mouse or 20+ adjustable settings to tweak our different mouses to work with the games settings.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 219	Posted - 2013.05.10 10:48:00 - [14] - Quote 5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q wrote: Thanks for explaining Rei, so ideally there should be no deadzone for mouse... the input lag is driving me nuts No problem, i am not sure how a DS3 that is build around Deadzones coope with them but translating a Mouse into using Deadzones does not work. My guess is that a stick needs the zones because its Thumb controlled and less precise as moving a wrist + arm, hence the entire debate about KB/M = OP. Just a Guess though. But for KB/M to work in this game we need raw mouse input as advertised, if we keep this Eagle Eye converter feeling in whats to be a competitive shooter it 1) won't ever be a E-Sport and 2) No sane pro KB/M user will stick around.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 222	Posted - 2013.05.10 11:08:00 - [15] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: Your Brain at this point climbs out of your skull and beats you to death with said controller. Best explanation I've heard yet. You should consider teaching college. ROFL, i can already picture it... Alright class, today we will be talking about Mouse Vs. Controller gameplay! *Small Wave happens" Alright alright sit back down everyone, so who here uses a controller! Ok those move to the left of the room, those that use a mouse move to the right of the room, take a new seat and sit DOWN! Its going to be a little dangerous for you guys to sit near each other today...or the rest of the year...so ive hired security and a team of medics to see us trough class today without deaths. Anyone here use the MOVE controller ? Oh you 4 ...use the move ...really ...GTFO of my class! MOVE ALREADY!!! lol