Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?

I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.

That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.

a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.

well that is somewhat the point. The idea of the scout was RECON . RECON usually long range away giving call outs; not on the front line.

For those running AR's & such; they will be weaker health wise, yet they are faster, better strafing/more maneuverable , and lower signature. As someone else said, they will be strengthened by use of active scanners for upfront recon, and use the the cloak module.

I'd say the only thing needed atm for scouts is more CPU/PG ; other then that they are being as intended. Plus with the new skill system of advanced suits getting bonuses (probably health), you will have more survivability.

That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.

I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything

In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts.

well that is somewhat the point. The idea of the scout was RECON . RECON usually long range away giving call outs; not on the front line.

For those running AR's & such; they will be weaker health wise, yet they are faster, better strafing/more maneuverable , and lower signature. As someone else said, they will be strengthened by use of active scanners for upfront recon, and use the the cloak module.

I'd say the only thing needed atm for scouts is more CPU/PG ; other then that they are being as intended. Plus with the new skill system of advanced suits getting bonuses (probably health), you will have more survivability.

I think the Scout suit is a way more specialized role. The speed and stealth help a lot and you are hard to hit making it easy to sneak up behind an enemy and take him down

How to fix scouts?

Allow them to dual wield light weapons I say.

Do you mean worried about them because they are too weak or because they are too strong?

If you read the link you will see that the data pertains to following categories:

• Endurance in terms of Stamina amount and recovery speed of stamina.
• Stealth in terms dB.
• Sprint speed in m/s.
• Scan precision.

I would say worry because the Logis are stronger in most of these categories. They are practically the stealthiest suits, possess the best situational awareness, and can do record marathon runs compared to all the other suits. The Assault is better than the scout during these tests but only for scan precision and low profile.

The Logis are also the most flexible suits on the field as they are the Swiss Army Knives of Dust 514. Jack of all trades and offer the best overall hacking capabilities.

Who is 'him'? Take whom down? When you sneak up on someone in a competitive game with corps rather than random blue dots - you are not sneaking up on a person - you sneak up on a full squad of ppl in proto suits 80% of the time. In a scout suit all this does is it adds +1 to their kill tally.

I asked for clarification on your part because you said "I'd be more worried about logibros than scouts," and in this thread, the topic is worrying about UP-ness of the scout.

I'm just going to throw out that hacking speed increases is a racial specific bonus to the Minmatar, and when you compare that to more shields(Caldari logi bonus) or Increased repair effects of armor rep mods(Amarr logi bonus) then suddenly far fewer people use Minmatar, because they prefer their own survival-ability than supporting their team-mates.

Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?

I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.

Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?

I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.

Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?

I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.

so you want to be able to take down four people armed with the best, likely boasting the skill(real, not just points into) to use them, while you're alone. that seems stupid OP.

Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?

I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.

SCOUTS HAVE NO STEALTH BONUS. IF SOMEONE LOOKS UP. THEY SEE ME. AND THEN, SAID SCOUT IS DEAD IN 2 SECONDS.

SCOUTS HAVE NO STEALTH BONUS. IF SOMEONE LOOKS UP. THEY SEE ME. AND THEN, SAID SCOUT IS DEAD IN 2 SECONDS.


Hit detection is not my f******** problem. That was one incident in Moejoe's video, and hit detection is not game mechanics. Look around in a match once, how many Assaults, Logos, and Heavy's do you see? Yet there's only 1-2 Scouts, 50% of the time snipers. Do snipers need speed? F*** no.

....

Shields? Better on Assault. Armor? Better on Assault. A slight speed boost, nearly useless when bullets can hit you around cover. Lower Scan? Useless, as soon as you walk into someone's fov, you're *******.


Therefore, Scouts require a buff. Just making the cloak exclusive to Scout would help, but a lot of you bitches want it along with a tanked suit with damage mods.

Tarquin Markel

OH OH new thought



NOT HAVING 2 JUMPS KILL YOUR ENTIRE STAMINA

that would be awesome.. the anti bunny hoping nerf to jumping and stamina is very annoying when I miss jumping on my second jump and have to sit there waiting for stamina to recharge to get where I want to go. then you dont wait long enough and try again but dont have enough stamina for a proper jump so dont make it and wipe out your stamina again.

its a knee high fence why cant I hop over it dammit

How to fix scouts?

Allow them to dual wield light weapons I say.

What I'm trying to say is...

Stop making things so goddamn useless. We saw it with tactical rifles, we see it with drop ships, it's completely clear with Nova Knives, (but idiots want those to "remain niche" and completely garbage, Maken is the only one to make good use at times), and dozens of other modules, and equipment. My question is why?

We don't need everyone to be Assault AR. Dust was and should be about diverse roles. So let's get back to where it was.

That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.

Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be using it like an Assault Suit ?, because if a scout suit performs better at the Assault role, where does that leaves THE Assault suit ?

The Scout suit is for ...scouting, infiltration, assasination....it is not meant for head on combat.

Most scouts are so adorable, they rush at me at high speed, in a straight line towards me ....your forward speed has no meaning at this point, nor does your smaller frame size if you use it like this.

And stopping to shoot back at me when i am already firing, does not help either...because you are not going to out tank the assault suit in its own assault style of play...

This entire thread can be responded to with this post.

*slowclap*

Icy TIG3R wrote:
That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.

That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.

After extensive play testing (and boy do I mean extensive) I have come to the following conclusions.

The scout suit needs:

GÇó More CPU (it is ridiculously under powered in this area)

GÇó a dedicated "electronics/biotics" high and low slot (e.g. The scout type-I would have one high slot plus one dedicated high slot that can only be used for electronics/biotics, as well as, two low slots with another dedicated low slot). This is so one can make a scout that can survive more than a three-tenths-of-a-second burst from any weapon or ohk by a massdriver (at the moment, electronics and biotics on a scout is simply impractical, and considering that that is what they are supposed to be designed for, I would say that this has been a utter FAIL). Of course, CPU/PG would further have to be increased to reflect this design.

GÇó Strafe/movement speeds need to be set back to where they were pre nerf.

GÇó Dropsuit specific Cloaking (when it comes) should be exclusive to scouts or should have severe drawbacks when used with other suit classes. Also one should be able to move while clocked in a scout suit. Perhaps this could be one of the drawbacks: scouts can move while cloaked, where as, all other suits cannot.

That is all.

I can understand that the scout suit needs some more cpu & pg to allow more fits but allowing a super fast suit, stealth movement coupled with a cloacking device and a say a breach shotgun is going to turn this game into aliens vs predator 2 and the ability to fit allot of stuff graciously is going to make for 4-6 man dedicated teams focused on solely invisible combat.

Up to the point you cannot react anymore when theres 6 people behind you, in eve the Stealth Bomber ships are recon class ships and can fire an alpha strike from a distance, then take a while to get back in cloak and are very easely destroyed when caught or fired upon when they are fighting without support.

Adding specialized additional slots like you say will only add onto the problem, and that is still beyond the issue of how 99% of the playerbase can't seem to hit a strafing scout at short range coupled with the pressure of being OHKilled added ontop to impair their aim further.

In short, If they design the suit to be a strafing, speed monster, with extra cpu & pg, additional slots for moar speed & shields, with exclusive rights to battle cloak we are going to have a problem when a scrub equips this suit, but a disaster if i would equip it.

Sensor dampened scouts, the good ones anyway always get into my back without the cloak and my situational awareness is flawless, imagine a scrub needing to find me while i am cloaked lol.

I just think that you are comfortably enjoying going pretty much unchallenged on the battle field in your nice cozy assault suit. And that is what I will continue to think until you offer up some more credible solutions on this matter, instead of the junk you just made me sift through.

4. How is ok to make it entirely impossible for scouts to make a survivable fitting while using e-wear and biotics (the situation as it currently exists)? Let's take an a-series for example:

Highs:
GÇó precision enhancer
GÇó complex shield extender

Lows:
GÇó kinetic catalyzer
GÇó range amplifier

Total HP with shield control/field mechanics 5:
GÇó shield 190
GÇó armor 110

This suit has no ability to heal itself has ridiculously low HP can't even fit a damping mod. And you are telling me that this is ok... Man wake up an smell what you're shovlin.

Now I want you to make this fitting and field test it and the tell me how well you do in it.

8. I play my assault 85% of the time because it fits my playstyle the most, i also dont play Dragon Rider failfits & Dual SMG failfits just for giggles and then come on here whining its infective.

You play Scout Logibro with Dual SMG's to make up for whatever it is your lacking or giggles, i dunno, i play to kill as many each round possible.

So far i have learned allot coming from COD and BF3, APB R and had to ditch allot of my bad habits, reading how you approach encounters sounds to me like you are still stuck to bad gameplay, fixing the suit still wont make it any better.

Now I want you to make this fitting and field test it and the tell me how well you do in it.

And for the record, I also know for a fact that Rei knows how to handle a Scout. A good Scout player with the right fitting can be nearly invisible. Particularly against Assaults and Heavies with their higher Scan Precision.

I've managed to get hatemail where people were claiming I used an invisibility hack because they just heard a Shotgun blast, saw a teammate appear next to my name on the kill feed, then turned around and nobody was there. If you know what you're doing, know your enemies' field of view, and know where and how to move so they don't see you getting there, you can clear out several people before anyone knows where you are.

Yes, sometimes things go wrong. Sometimes a squad has a Sniper on overwatch that I didn't realise was watching (usually turns my next spawn into a sniper hunt), and sometimes a guy with an AR shows up at a distance looking the right way at the right time (wrong way at wrong time for me, obviously). Without any range upgrades, a well-skilled Scout can already see 30m in every direction.

I'm not interested in fitting suggestion from another person who thinks that the only combat a "scout" should see is shooting someone in the back with a shot gun.

Not interested in what your personal opinions of Rei are. What I am interested in is making the scout role live up to its name. To have a suit class capable of performing the recon roll with out dying every time someone sees it. You people are acting as though my suggestions are outlandish. This is absolutely absurd.

Not interested in what your personal opinions of Rei are. What I am interested in is making the scout role live up to its name. To have a suit class capable of performing the recon roll with out dying every time someone sees it. You people are acting as though my suggestions are outlandish. This is absolutely absurd.

Well, I'm glad I'm not that guy. Shotguns suit how I prefer to play, but they definitely aren't the only viable weapon on a Scout. Point to one post I've made - EVER - that states Shotguns are the only viable Scout weapon, or even rules out a particular weapon as being viable on the suit. Please? I'd love to see where I said that. I suck with ARs, but if I need to, I can run an AR Scout and do well. I run SMG Scouts on a couple of characters. So, please explain what exactly your point in quoting me here was?


I'm not saying your DESIRES are outlandish. I'm saying that your method to try and get there is. Increasing CPU alone would give Scouts more versatility. You can't increase it by too much, or the "OP" cries would be justified. A small PG/CPU increase would be nice, and would probably balance the suits without need for any other tweaks. Increasing strafe speed back to pre-nerf levels would break the game like it has in the past. A small - VERY small - buff to strafe speed would be nice, but it needs to be carefully done, and should be the ONLY change if it happens. Nothing else. Definitely not strafe AND fitting buffs.

You can already use the Scout as a scout. I've done it more than once. With and without a Shotgun. When we get Active Scanners, this will be even more viable and (hopefully) even provide some form of WP reward.

Dude you have a grand total of 3 (repeat 3) kills with a KDR of .38. Why am I even talking to you?

So whenever i see posts about people not using any tactic, standing stll etc but wanting their suit to compensate for their own lack of skill, i get riled up i suppose, its nothing personal but once you get passed the "its the suit, its the game, he had an advantage, he had a tank, he had a shotgun, he saw me, i ran out of bullets, he got lucky, he got lucky twice" and change it to "what am i doing wrong here and how can i fix this and be more efficient at what i do, your skill growth rate is always going to stay stagnant".

Wow. Someone finally looked up the stats on my FORUM ALT THAT I DON'T PLAY and tried using them against me.

Good job.

And good luck finding my in-game name even if you have the PSN ID. I'm not that easy to track down.

And that is what my post sounded like to you, hunh (your ego is astounding). It couldn't have possibly been that I was making legitimate complaints. Ok then, let's do some math:

Currently this is how I run a recon fit b-series scout suit:

2x complex shield extenders
1x enhanced armor plate
1x basic armor repair

1x exile assault rifle (ah you thought I only used the SMG didn't you, shows how little you really know about me)
1x AV grenades
1x remote explosives
1x gauged nanohive

Now, my CPU and PG skills are maxed, and with this fitting my CPU/PG consumption is as follows:

219/221
45/57

My shield control and field mechanics are maxed, giving me a grand total HP count of:

222 shield
247 armor

GT 469

I have an alt character that is skilled into assaults, so let's compare his total HP on a b-series assault just for comparison of what I might be up against in a recon situation:

This is with shield control 2 and field mechanics 2.

447 shield
180 armor

GT 627
GT with max skills would be 702

Now, why do I run this fit? Because, when I get to a point I am reckoning I am usually utterly alone, with the rest of my squad either a good distance behind me or moping up from our last engagement. I know that I will be engaging multiple hostiles with superior survivability, and most likely I will have to engage multiple hostiles to initiate taking control of a "situation" (I am of course talking about playing a skirmish here).

And I perform this roll very well.

Now under these circumstances should I be effing around with stealth mods trying to sneak up on people like some stupid jack@$$ or should I -ábe using the speed inherent to the scout plus whatever survivability I can squeeze out of the suit.

I know that you like to play ambush a lot Rei, but the tactics that are viable in an ambush are not going to be reflective of the tactics that are going to be necessary to maintain control of districts when planetary conquest arrives.

now let's take a look at this pathetic scout that-áGarrett suggested I use for this roll

87 shield
169 armor

GT 255

Now what you're telling me is that I am supposed to engage multiple hostiles, guarding an objective, who are looking ever direction they possible can trying desperately find any threats in the area in order to ensure their own survival, and I am supposed to do all of this while all of those hostiles out class me in survivability by nearly a multiple of three, and all because I've got some dampening mods and I happen to be able to see where they are on my scope. Ridiculous.

The reason I run what I run is because it work. It doesn't work as well as it should but it works a hell of a lot better than the ridiculousness you guys are suggesting.

So this brings me to the point were we need to ask a couple of fundamental questions:

1. Who would be stupid enough to actually use scan dampening and biotic mods on a scout?

2. So if scanning dampening and biotic mods are not for scouts then who are they for?

Well with my assault alt I have been testing out a few fittings with the scan and dampening mods, with some interesting results, but ultimately the fittings are not viable because they lack the speed necessary to perform to recon roll.

Which leads me back to my earlier suggestions.

Look, this is what I am saying 469 hit point compared to 702 hit points is already a severe gimp. Not to mention being forced to to use nothing but an exile due to CPU constraints.

My suggestion to set strafe speeds back to pre nerf is a benefit to all suit classes. And quite frankly I do not at all understand why it was ever changed in the first place? With the exception that I have heard that the reason why it was changed has nothing to do with what you guys are suggesting (people not being able to track scout) but was due to some kind of hit detection glitch due to the then current movement speeds (something I never experienced/had a problem with and if I did it must have been very rare because I do not remember it at all.

My suggestion to give scouts the dedicated slots is in order to keep the modules in question from becoming obsolete. Mainly the scan and dampening and biotic mods were intended to be used with the scouts, but as it stand right now, you would have to be an abslute morron to actually use them on a scout, in say something like a corp battle.-áWill these extra slot really make much of a difference outside of slightly helping to close the HP gap between scout and assault through meta tactics (something that is sorely needed any way). No. Remember the scout costs the same amount of SP to skill into (actually more if you count dropsuit command) and even more ISK to purchase/maintain.

And finaly clocking, to finish closing the HP gap through meta tactics.

I fail to see what the problem is here. If I am missing something please enlighten me.

And that is what my post sounded like to you, hunh (your ego is astounding). I couldn't have possibly been that I was making legitimate complaints. Ok then, let's do some math:

Currently this is how I run a recon fit b-series scout suit:

2x complex shield extenders
1x enhanced armor plate
1x basic armor repair

1x exile assault rifle (ah you thought I only used the SMG didn't you, shows how little you really know about me)
1x AV grenades
1x remote explosives
1x gauged nanohive

Now, why do I run this fit? Because, when I get to a point I am reckoning I am usually utterly alone, with the rest of my squad either a good distance behind me or moping up from our last engagement. I know that I will be engaging multiple hostiles with superior survivability, and most likely I will have to engage multiple hostiles to initiate taking control of a "situation" (I am of course talking about playing a skirmish here).

And I perform this roll very well.

Now under these circumstances should I be effing around with stealth mods trying to sneak up on people like some stupid jack@$$ or should I be using the speed inherent to the scout plus whatever survivability I can squeeze out of the suit.

I know that you like to play ambush a lot Rei, but the tactics that are viable in an ambush are not going to be reflective of the tactics that are going to be necessary to maintain control of districts when planetary conquest arrives.

now let's take a look at this pathetic scout that Garrett suggested I use for this roll

87 shield
169 armor

GT 255

Now what you're telling me is that I am supposed to engage multiple hostiles, guarding an objective, how are looking ever direction they possible can trying desperately find any threats in the area in order to ensure their own survival, and I am supposed to do all of this while all of those hostiles out class me in survivability by nearly a multiple of three, and all because I've got some dampening mods and I happen to be able to see where they are on my scope. Ridiculous.

The reason I run what I run is because it work. It doesn't work as well as it should but it works a hell of a lot better than the ridiculousness you guys are suggesting.

So this brings me to the point were we need to ask a couple of fundamental question:

1. Who would be stupid enough to actually use scan and dampening mods on a scout?

2. So if scanning and dampening is not for scouts then who are they for?

Well come back and talk to us when you aren't all scaret of showing us who you are.

@ Rei:

Your post sums up my entire point: there is no viable recon fitting available to scouts.

what the hell am I suposed to do when I get to the recon point? Sit there and jerk it while the enemy hack the objective? Watch the enemy finish steam rolling the friendlies? Let them simply push through to a stratigic point? Recon is about more than just giving intel and any Army Ranger would be glad to tell you that. They don't give those guys guns for nothing you know.

{edit>>> I do what I can until reinforcements arive. And my 5% reduction in speed still puts me well above the speed of any assault out there especially when you consider that almost every assault is wearing at least one plate anyway. It does a hell of a lot better than what you are suggesting and that is experience talking.

And what the hell are you doing runing around in a vk with that kind of sh!t EHP? That sh!t would never fly in a corp battle against any one worth there salt.

The primary job of recon is to spot for your squadmates. Locate the enemies so the assault elements can move in with a better picture of what they're heading into.

They know where the enemies are, which direction they're facing, and how best to ambush them. If you hit a couple of guys with a quick spray of gunfire then disappear, that will divert their attention from where your main attack is about to hit. That means 2 - 3 enemies facing the wrong way, which can be enough to turn the tide. Sometimes you'll be able to draw more than just a couple of eyes your way without significant risk. You only fired a handful of shots, and didn't stay visible for long enough to even take fire, let alone get killed like you would if you entered combat, but you draw enemy attention away from the threat, and give your teammates an edge they could never have without you. The high speed and low profile mean that as soon as you turn the corner, you're invisible. The scanning modules (backed by relevant skills) mean the same DOESN'T hold true for your enemies, who remain lit up as long as they're anywhere near you.

I prefer to play it just the opposite-- wait until both sides are fully committed, then slip in behind and start hacking important stuff and shredding distracted personnel. Admittedly, your approach has the advantage of getting the battle started on the right foot, but I do my best work when nobody's trying to cut me down with a Duvolle's.

The primary job of recon is to spot for your squadmates. Locate the enemies so the assault elements can move in with a better picture of what they're heading into.

They know where the enemies are, which direction they're facing, and how best to ambush them. If you hit a couple of guys with a quick spray of gunfire then disappear, that will divert their attention from where your main attack is about to hit. That means 2 - 3 enemies facing the wrong way, which can be enough to turn the tide. Sometimes you'll be able to draw more than just a couple of eyes your way without significant risk. You only fired a handful of shots, and didn't stay visible for long enough to even take fire, let alone get killed like you would if you entered combat, but you draw enemy attention away from the threat, and give your teammates an edge they could never have without you. The high speed and low profile mean that as soon as you turn the corner, you're invisible. The scanning modules (backed by relevant skills) mean the same DOESN'T hold true for your enemies, who remain lit up as long as they're anywhere near you.

I take that approach at times as well, check my edit.

Also, it's funny that someone who keeps saying he wants a "recon" build thinks that EHP is a primary consideration for such a build. If you're looking at EHP over other stats, you're doing recon wrong.

What dream world are you living in we're this actually works. This would require a set up which means that your squad would have to be coordinated and already at the recon point with you and ready to go. But this isn't/shouldn't be the case. You are recon which means that if you are doing your job right you are ariving at a stratigic point far in advance of the rest of your squad. If there is a problem at that point you cannot simply sit there and jerk it while the problem gets worse. You have to be able to do something substantial about it. And with that ridiculous fitting you suggested earlyer I can pretty much garantee that the only things you'll be contributing are sucking and dying.

I take that approach at times as well, check my edit.

Also, it's funny that someone who keeps saying he wants a "recon" build thinks that EHP is a primary consideration for such a build. If you're looking at EHP over other stats, you're doing recon wrong.

There are no highly-mobile combat suits. That's what Ignoble Son, et al, seem to want.

@ Rei:

Your post sums up my entire point: there is no viable recon fitting available to scouts.

what the hell am I suposed to do when I get to the recon point? Sit there and jerk it while the enemy hack the objective? Watch the enemy finish steam rolling the friendlies? Let them simply push through to a stratigic point? Recon is about more than just giving intel and any Army Ranger would be glad to tell you that. They don't give those guys guns for nothing you know.

{edit>>> I do what I can until reinforcements arive. And my 5% reduction in speed still puts me well above the speed of any assault out there especially when you consider that almost every assault is wearing at least one plate anyway. It does a hell of a lot better than what you are suggesting and that is experience talking.

And what the hell are you doing runing around in a vk with that kind of sh!t EHP? That sh!t would never fly in a corp battle against any one worth their salt

I'm living in a wonderful, magical dreamworld where VIDEOGAMES AREN'T REAL LIFE AND DON'T FOLLOW THE SAME RULES. Maybe you should try it sometime?

If you're arriving at the point of an attack with more than a few seconds to spare, either your teammates are taking too long or you forgot to help them out in a couple of fights along the way. Real-world recon involves a lot of elements that are impractical, impossible or just not fun to simulate. Real-world recon requires set-up time and lots of waiting around and "not contributing" before anything happens.

And if you suck at recon in DUST, you die lots. If you're good at it, the enemy rarely even sees you.

Higher-tier Logi suits with Stamina skills/mods.

You sacrifice some stealth, and only have one gun, but if you can make that work, you can have your speed-focused combat suit.

But that's not a Recon suit, which is what Ignoble is CLAIMING to want, in spite of apparent evidence tot he contrary.

Hay some body's got to escort the fat boy and the medic them things don't escort themselves across the battle field you know.

And I never stick around after we break the enemy line. That's what the fat boy is for.

All i read from you is that you want Recon AND be able to take care of the enemies on your own.

Basically you want to be a Cloaked Assault Recon....



There are more usefull mods then just stacking MAX HP, armor plates are used on a VK0 not a VK1 and having speed + ability to recharge my shields to maximum in 8-9s from 0 is worth more then just having more HP.

So say you stack 533 shields on a VK1, someone depletes those, then you sit there 4.8s before regen kicks in and gain 28 shields a second = 23 seconds thumb twiddling or at 15s mark jumping back out with 250 shields.

Or with my suit you have 401 shields back after just 8.6 seconds.

So that guy if he engages me again after he "depleted" my shields at the 9 second mark he has 100 shields back, while my suit has 401, ill eat the guy for dinner and any shields idd lose to the first guy will be back for the second and the third ...unless they flank me or engage all at once, but then again i got greater sprint speed then you have in my VK1.

It lets me chew trough those supposed teams you talk about, because each and every one of them stacks HP HP and more HP.

13ear even send me fan-mail, 12 of them after we raped his team, blew up his tank and killed him 4 times, ussually he quits a game after 2 deaths so it was a record by his standards. :)

My fits r fine and are specced for Lone Wolfing, yours are all "I wanna do everything all at once" witch in EVE does not work.

And why wouldn't I think this when it is almost certain that the odd are going to be severely stacked against me even with the maximum HP I can squeeze out of a scout suit. Is there really anything more important than survivabIlity?

*scratches head*

Uh ... maybe?

I can see the theory, but I've out zig-zagged too many of those (even with my frail defenses) to really have much confidence in their maneuverability.

Ignoble undercuts his own points by simultaneously waving his scout E-peen and complaining about how he's underpowered, with a side-order of offensive ad hominem, but ... there may be a place in the game for something with a scout's speed and a logi's defensive profile, probably balanced by having the electronics of an assault suit.

I'm not sure I'd play it. I'm damn sure I don't care to lose the scout we have for the ninja marauder he wants. But ... I can see why he'd want it.

Perhaps we'll get a tech 2 "assassin" scout suit somewhere down the line.

Since when is it the job of a recon to escort or guard personnel?

You want:
*Invisible
*Assault capabilities
*Recon
*Escort, Guard Duty
*Commando Lone wolfing

With your scout ?

thats the stuff you wanna do summed up in this thread, in your tights...suit..

Wrong suit choice, the Assault is better at all that, except Invisible & Recon but those are the parts you talk about only and never seem to actually be doing....


Would be cool, also expect it to have a Sidearm Slot only.

More important than survivability? No.
More important than EHP? Definitely.

Unlike EVE, there's more to survival than balancing EHP vs. DPS.


B-Series Logi? Or vk.1? They're the ones with the speed buff that actually lets them match (or outpace) Scouts. They may not have the evasive abilities of a Scout during combat, but they have high sprint speed AND more fitting capacity, which means they can be more heavily tanked (with more HP to start with) while still getting a Stamina mod to help balance their shortage in that regard. Also, more equipment slots, which will mean room for a cloak when they show up - they're supposedly going to be equipment.

B-Series Logi? Or vk.1? They're the ones with the speed buff that actually lets them match (or outpace) Scouts. They may not have the evasive abilities of a Scout during combat, but they have high sprint speed AND more fitting capacity, which means they can be more heavily tanked (with more HP to start with) while still getting a Stamina mod to help balance their shortage in that regard. Also, more equipment slots, which will mean room for a cloak when they show up - they're supposedly going to be equipment.

Your tactics are based around you running with half a squad all the time, and your constant lack of support. As an assault with over 500 shield running in a tight squad you should very rarely be running into situations where you are getting you shields depleted. But your not your off doing every thing lone wolf stile with mad.

I don't claim to be psychic, but I think it's largely the evasive qualities our abrasive friend is after.

Dance like a butterfly, sting like a dude with a plasma assault rifle.

And the tactics you want to use are based around you running off completely unsupported instead of having at least half a squad working together like the guy you're complaining about, in a suit that's NOT built for direct combat, and complaining that you can't go into straight-up fights against enemies who outnumber you and have more EHP because you're built for speed and stealth more than durability.

If you're running a Scout and actually providing recon for a squad, you should rarely even be getting shot at, let alone taking hits, but you're not, you're off doing everything lone wolf style completely alone.

Maybe you should think about the fact that your own arguments are countering one another before trying to make them?

I never complained about any of the stuff you say I have complained about. In fact, I am perfectly fine with the EHP disadvantage of the scout. What I am not ok with is not being able to use e-wear, which is infact what I did complain about.

Get your facts strait.

Ok, lets assume they fix the scout the way you like it,

You arrive at the coordinates before your team like in your post and encounter multiple assaults, you then proceed with engaging them like you say, you dont twiddle thumbs while waiting for backup and kill them all...

Lol

I am quite sorry if it appears that I am intentionally atempting to personally insult anyone my written debate stile was cultivated in a highly scientific atmosphere, and scientific debates can become very authoritative/heated very quickly.

So I apologize if I have offended anyone. It was honestly not my intent.

The only reason you can't use e-war is because you're focusing on EHP instead, when you shouldn't be as concerned with that on a Scout because your goal is to not be getting shot. Maybe a Shield Extender, maybe an Armour Repper or Triage Nanohive (because you're usually out of reach of Repair Tools), then pile on the e-war gear. Dampeners, Precision/Range Amps, etc. Load yourself up for scanning and/or stealth, with only a little bit of tank in case the plan falls apart. Pick off stragglers from the group. Chip away at people who are already taking fire. Hit someone as a DISTRACTION rather than a direct attack.

It may not be the best source of WP, but it makes you more of a benefit to the team.

And yes, if you're spotted, you go *splat* really fast, but if you do the job well, that's the exception rather than the rule. Active Scanners will change this up a little, and so will cloaking. But neither will have a huge impact on the role of such a suit, only its performance in that role.

All good. One of my housemates is a dedicated, rationalist techie who shows some of the same qualities, so I'm familiar with the phenomenon (though I appreciate the context). Of course, I also was not one of those receiving the brunt of your wrath.

It's ironic that discussions among people engaged in what is meant to be a pure exercise of reason (the hard sciences, not DUST) get heated easily. Ah, well ... we're all human, after all.

Do I have your desire for "scout as agile combatant" down correctly? It's a perspective, as I've mentioned, I can understand and respect even if I don't agree with it-- or at least with the need for the current scout to be transformed into it.

The scout as it presently stands doesn't seem particularly underpowered to me, though I've admittedly been using it in public matches (corp matches want the best, and I'm certainly not the best the PFBHz have to offer). My setup isn't high-end, but I survive well enough and can do a lot of mischief in a short time.

Just ... not so much of it while looking down the sights of a gun. I defend myself or pick off easy kills, but otherwise I'm busy hacking the CRU or objective while my squad is fighting (works surprisingly well even if there are shots zinging past my ears-- people usually hunt the hacker only after they're not getting shot at) , or setting traps to blow up later.

So far, the best weapons I've had as a scout are AV grenades and remote explosives. I spring for Advanced on both, the only higher-quality gear I usually carry.

That seems like a perfectly acceptable scouting role, to me: use electronics, hacking, traps, and the occasional seeking grenade. Provide good intel, take shameless advantage of chaos, make yourself a confounded nuisance, and try to provide that little bit of "edge" that wins the match.

An agile attacker seems like a worthwhile, and arguably unfilled, role, but it's not my role, at least not right now. I like my role. It suits me. I expect it to suit me even better when the maps are twenty times their current size.

I can understand what you want, and why, but I don't feel I should need to give up what I have for you to obtain it.

The only reason I can't use e-wear is because I can't otherwise make a servivable scout. E-wear is not a viable replacement for HP.

Yet you already know that the tactics I am talking about have nothing to with the tactic you are talking about now, nor are they applicable to what I am attempting to attchive by employing said tactics.

Ok, lets assume they fix the scout the way you like it,

You arrive at the coordinates before your team like in your post and encounter multiple assaults, you then proceed with engaging them like you say, you dont twiddle thumbs while waiting for backup and kill them all...

30s later the assaults get there, with ....nothing to assault, you again use your speed to get to another place on the map ahead of your assault team mates, they arrive again with the enemy team mobbed up and packaged ready for transit.

But wait the Assault pulls out a gun! Did he see an enemy you did not see ???

Nah.... The assault pulls out his barcode register gun and prints our a barcode for on the Crate to ship them to a biomass vat because your suits sensors are better then theirs so its impossible to have missed any....

You then tell your squadmates to rendezvous at Delta, and while giving them a handshake you make make sure to tell them to make sure theres enough rounds left in those barcode guns!

Cant have my shipment of clones not covered for freight next day delivery!


Anything wrong here, where does the Assault come in, like doing his job assaulting??

Well ... hm. Let me think.

Giving you a little more defense would allow you to pursue your preferred tactics more easily. Clear enough. Just tweaking that doesn't really cost us anything ... assuming that's all that happens.

I suppose what we're concerned about is that this shift would come at the expense of our preferred tactics-- that the scout suit would become less-frequently used for straight-up stealth. The suit doesn't seem underpowered to us, so what you suggest seems like it would be more of a change of role than an improvement on an existing one.

We're kind of the conservatives in this discussion: "It's fine as is. Just leave it alone!"

Of course, if it were used for attack more often, that could actually make sneaking easier.

One concern, though: the shotgun scout only avoids being flavor of the month by virtue of that title having been given to the laser assaults already. Are you sure this change of yours wouldn't just result in scout suits taking over for assault as the most-used, with ravening packs of well-defended scouts overrunning everything in sight with their creaky-gate weaponry?

I mean, I kind of smile, right now, when a shotgun scout tries to sneak up on me (my Analysis skill is high enough that I see them coming), but I'm not sure I'd be smiling if they could take more hits than they currently can.

Well ... hm. Let me think.

Giving you a little more defense would allow you to pursue your preferred tactics more easily. Clear enough. Just tweaking that doesn't really cost us anything ... assuming that's all that happens.

I suppose what we're concerned about is that this shift would come at the expense of our preferred tactics-- that the scout suit would become less-frequently used for straight-up stealth. The suit doesn't seem underpowered to us, so what you suggest seems like it would be more of a change of role than an improvement on an existing one.

We're kind of the conservatives in this discussion: "It's fine as is. Just leave it alone!"

Of course, if it were used for attack more often, that could actually make sneaking easier.

One concern, though: the shotgun scout only avoids being flavor of the month by virtue of that title having been given to the laser assaults already. Are you sure this change of yours wouldn't just result in scout suits taking over for assault as the most-used, with ravening packs of well-defended scouts overrunning everything in sight with their creaky-gate weaponry?

I mean, I kind of smile, right now, when a shotgun scout tries to sneak up on me (my Analysis skill is high enough that I see them coming), but I'm not sure I'd be smiling if they could take more hits than they currently can.

See this is where you're wrong. A Scout doesn't have that much speed in any way to manage to get to objectives substantially faster than an Assault.

I'm a scout....


more cpu would be nice

could care less about stealth module as I never plan to sit still as sitting still means death for a scout.

I think the shot gun is ridiculous and most 'fixes' seem to be geared toward the shotgun mentality imo

I think a slight CPU upgrade would be wonderful


Circuitry 5
Light Weapon Upgrade Pro 2 or 3
Shield upgrades 5 (yup 310K SP spent to get a 3% CPU reduction on shield extenders)
any other skill that would reduce CPU usage of any module or piece of equipment I carry

and CPU upgrades 3, cause when I actually do put on my proto scout suit I actually need to use a low slot for one, and its the VK.1 because I need the extra CPU it provides