After extensive play testing (and boy do I mean extensive) I have come to the following conclusions.

The scout suit needs:

GÇó More CPU (it is ridiculously under powered in this area)

GÇó a dedicated "electronics/biotics" high and low slot (e.g. The scout type-I would have one high slot plus one dedicated high slot that can only be used for electronics/biotics, as well as, two low slots with another dedicated low slot). This is so one can make a scout that can survive more than a three-tenths-of-a-second burst from any weapon or ohk by a massdriver (at the moment, electronics and biotics on a scout is simply impractical, and considering that that is what they are supposed to be designed for, I would say that this has been a utter FAIL). Of course, CPU/PG would further have to be increased to reflect this design.

GÇó Strafe/movement speeds need to be set back to where they were pre nerf.

GÇó Dropsuit specific Cloaking (when it comes) should be exclusive to scouts or should have severe drawbacks when used with other suit classes. Also one should be able to move while clocked in a scout suit. Perhaps this could be one of the drawbacks: scouts can move while cloaked, where as, all other suits cannot.

That is all.

I can understand that the scout suit needs some more cpu & pg to allow more fits but allowing a super fast suit, stealth movement coupled with a cloacking device and a say a breach shotgun is going to turn this game into aliens vs predator 2 and the ability to fit allot of stuff graciously is going to make for 4-6 man dedicated teams focused on solely invisible combat.

Up to the point you cannot react anymore when theres 6 people behind you, in eve the Stealth Bomber ships are recon class ships and can fire an alpha strike from a distance, then take a while to get back in cloak and are very easely destroyed when caught or fired upon when they are fighting without support.

Adding specialized additional slots like you say will only add onto the problem, and that is still beyond the issue of how 99% of the playerbase can't seem to hit a strafing scout at short range coupled with the pressure of being OHKilled added ontop to impair their aim further.

In short, If they design the suit to be a strafing, speed monster, with extra cpu & pg, additional slots for moar speed & shields, with exclusive rights to battle cloak we are going to have a problem when a scrub equips this suit, but a disaster if i would equip it.

Sensor dampened scouts, the good ones anyway always get into my back without the cloak and my situational awareness is flawless, imagine a scrub needing to find me while i am cloaked lol.

I just think that you are comfortably enjoying going pretty much unchallenged on the battle field in your nice cozy assault suit. And that is what I will continue to think until you offer up some more credible solutions on this matter, instead of the junk you just made me sift through.

4. How is ok to make it entirely impossible for scouts to make a survivable fitting while using e-wear and biotics (the situation as it currently exists)? Let's take an a-series for example:

Highs:
GÇó precision enhancer
GÇó complex shield extender

Lows:
GÇó kinetic catalyzer
GÇó range amplifier

Total HP with shield control/field mechanics 5:
GÇó shield 190
GÇó armor 110

This suit has no ability to heal itself has ridiculously low HP can't even fit a damping mod. And you are telling me that this is ok... Man wake up an smell what you're shovlin.

Now I want you to make this fitting and field test it and the tell me how well you do in it.

8. I play my assault 85% of the time because it fits my playstyle the most, i also dont play Dragon Rider failfits & Dual SMG failfits just for giggles and then come on here whining its infective.

You play Scout Logibro with Dual SMG's to make up for whatever it is your lacking or giggles, i dunno, i play to kill as many each round possible.

So far i have learned allot coming from COD and BF3, APB R and had to ditch allot of my bad habits, reading how you approach encounters sounds to me like you are still stuck to bad gameplay, fixing the suit still wont make it any better.

Now I want you to make this fitting and field test it and the tell me how well you do in it.

And for the record, I also know for a fact that Rei knows how to handle a Scout. A good Scout player with the right fitting can be nearly invisible. Particularly against Assaults and Heavies with their higher Scan Precision.

I've managed to get hatemail where people were claiming I used an invisibility hack because they just heard a Shotgun blast, saw a teammate appear next to my name on the kill feed, then turned around and nobody was there. If you know what you're doing, know your enemies' field of view, and know where and how to move so they don't see you getting there, you can clear out several people before anyone knows where you are.

Yes, sometimes things go wrong. Sometimes a squad has a Sniper on overwatch that I didn't realise was watching (usually turns my next spawn into a sniper hunt), and sometimes a guy with an AR shows up at a distance looking the right way at the right time (wrong way at wrong time for me, obviously). Without any range upgrades, a well-skilled Scout can already see 30m in every direction.

I'm not interested in fitting suggestion from another person who thinks that the only combat a "scout" should see is shooting someone in the back with a shot gun.

Not interested in what your personal opinions of Rei are. What I am interested in is making the scout role live up to its name. To have a suit class capable of performing the recon roll with out dying every time someone sees it. You people are acting as though my suggestions are outlandish. This is absolutely absurd.

Not interested in what your personal opinions of Rei are. What I am interested in is making the scout role live up to its name. To have a suit class capable of performing the recon roll with out dying every time someone sees it. You people are acting as though my suggestions are outlandish. This is absolutely absurd.

Well, I'm glad I'm not that guy. Shotguns suit how I prefer to play, but they definitely aren't the only viable weapon on a Scout. Point to one post I've made - EVER - that states Shotguns are the only viable Scout weapon, or even rules out a particular weapon as being viable on the suit. Please? I'd love to see where I said that. I suck with ARs, but if I need to, I can run an AR Scout and do well. I run SMG Scouts on a couple of characters. So, please explain what exactly your point in quoting me here was?


I'm not saying your DESIRES are outlandish. I'm saying that your method to try and get there is. Increasing CPU alone would give Scouts more versatility. You can't increase it by too much, or the "OP" cries would be justified. A small PG/CPU increase would be nice, and would probably balance the suits without need for any other tweaks. Increasing strafe speed back to pre-nerf levels would break the game like it has in the past. A small - VERY small - buff to strafe speed would be nice, but it needs to be carefully done, and should be the ONLY change if it happens. Nothing else. Definitely not strafe AND fitting buffs.

You can already use the Scout as a scout. I've done it more than once. With and without a Shotgun. When we get Active Scanners, this will be even more viable and (hopefully) even provide some form of WP reward.

Dude you have a grand total of 3 (repeat 3) kills with a KDR of .38. Why am I even talking to you?

So whenever i see posts about people not using any tactic, standing stll etc but wanting their suit to compensate for their own lack of skill, i get riled up i suppose, its nothing personal but once you get passed the "its the suit, its the game, he had an advantage, he had a tank, he had a shotgun, he saw me, i ran out of bullets, he got lucky, he got lucky twice" and change it to "what am i doing wrong here and how can i fix this and be more efficient at what i do, your skill growth rate is always going to stay stagnant".

Wow. Someone finally looked up the stats on my FORUM ALT THAT I DON'T PLAY and tried using them against me.

Good job.

And good luck finding my in-game name even if you have the PSN ID. I'm not that easy to track down.

And that is what my post sounded like to you, hunh (your ego is astounding). It couldn't have possibly been that I was making legitimate complaints. Ok then, let's do some math:

Currently this is how I run a recon fit b-series scout suit:

2x complex shield extenders
1x enhanced armor plate
1x basic armor repair

1x exile assault rifle (ah you thought I only used the SMG didn't you, shows how little you really know about me)
1x AV grenades
1x remote explosives
1x gauged nanohive

Now, my CPU and PG skills are maxed, and with this fitting my CPU/PG consumption is as follows:

219/221
45/57

My shield control and field mechanics are maxed, giving me a grand total HP count of:

222 shield
247 armor

GT 469

I have an alt character that is skilled into assaults, so let's compare his total HP on a b-series assault just for comparison of what I might be up against in a recon situation:

This is with shield control 2 and field mechanics 2.

447 shield
180 armor

GT 627
GT with max skills would be 702

Now, why do I run this fit? Because, when I get to a point I am reckoning I am usually utterly alone, with the rest of my squad either a good distance behind me or moping up from our last engagement. I know that I will be engaging multiple hostiles with superior survivability, and most likely I will have to engage multiple hostiles to initiate taking control of a "situation" (I am of course talking about playing a skirmish here).

And I perform this roll very well.

Now under these circumstances should I be effing around with stealth mods trying to sneak up on people like some stupid jack@$$ or should I -ábe using the speed inherent to the scout plus whatever survivability I can squeeze out of the suit.

I know that you like to play ambush a lot Rei, but the tactics that are viable in an ambush are not going to be reflective of the tactics that are going to be necessary to maintain control of districts when planetary conquest arrives.

now let's take a look at this pathetic scout that-áGarrett suggested I use for this roll

87 shield
169 armor

GT 255

Now what you're telling me is that I am supposed to engage multiple hostiles, guarding an objective, who are looking ever direction they possible can trying desperately find any threats in the area in order to ensure their own survival, and I am supposed to do all of this while all of those hostiles out class me in survivability by nearly a multiple of three, and all because I've got some dampening mods and I happen to be able to see where they are on my scope. Ridiculous.

The reason I run what I run is because it work. It doesn't work as well as it should but it works a hell of a lot better than the ridiculousness you guys are suggesting.

So this brings me to the point were we need to ask a couple of fundamental questions:

1. Who would be stupid enough to actually use scan dampening and biotic mods on a scout?

2. So if scanning dampening and biotic mods are not for scouts then who are they for?

Well with my assault alt I have been testing out a few fittings with the scan and dampening mods, with some interesting results, but ultimately the fittings are not viable because they lack the speed necessary to perform to recon roll.

Which leads me back to my earlier suggestions.

Look, this is what I am saying 469 hit point compared to 702 hit points is already a severe gimp. Not to mention being forced to to use nothing but an exile due to CPU constraints.

My suggestion to set strafe speeds back to pre nerf is a benefit to all suit classes. And quite frankly I do not at all understand why it was ever changed in the first place? With the exception that I have heard that the reason why it was changed has nothing to do with what you guys are suggesting (people not being able to track scout) but was due to some kind of hit detection glitch due to the then current movement speeds (something I never experienced/had a problem with and if I did it must have been very rare because I do not remember it at all.

My suggestion to give scouts the dedicated slots is in order to keep the modules in question from becoming obsolete. Mainly the scan and dampening and biotic mods were intended to be used with the scouts, but as it stand right now, you would have to be an abslute morron to actually use them on a scout, in say something like a corp battle.-áWill these extra slot really make much of a difference outside of slightly helping to close the HP gap between scout and assault through meta tactics (something that is sorely needed any way). No. Remember the scout costs the same amount of SP to skill into (actually more if you count dropsuit command) and even more ISK to purchase/maintain.

And finaly clocking, to finish closing the HP gap through meta tactics.

I fail to see what the problem is here. If I am missing something please enlighten me.

And that is what my post sounded like to you, hunh (your ego is astounding). I couldn't have possibly been that I was making legitimate complaints. Ok then, let's do some math:

Currently this is how I run a recon fit b-series scout suit:

2x complex shield extenders
1x enhanced armor plate
1x basic armor repair

1x exile assault rifle (ah you thought I only used the SMG didn't you, shows how little you really know about me)
1x AV grenades
1x remote explosives
1x gauged nanohive

Now, why do I run this fit? Because, when I get to a point I am reckoning I am usually utterly alone, with the rest of my squad either a good distance behind me or moping up from our last engagement. I know that I will be engaging multiple hostiles with superior survivability, and most likely I will have to engage multiple hostiles to initiate taking control of a "situation" (I am of course talking about playing a skirmish here).

And I perform this roll very well.

Now under these circumstances should I be effing around with stealth mods trying to sneak up on people like some stupid jack@$$ or should I be using the speed inherent to the scout plus whatever survivability I can squeeze out of the suit.

I know that you like to play ambush a lot Rei, but the tactics that are viable in an ambush are not going to be reflective of the tactics that are going to be necessary to maintain control of districts when planetary conquest arrives.

now let's take a look at this pathetic scout that Garrett suggested I use for this roll

87 shield
169 armor

GT 255

Now what you're telling me is that I am supposed to engage multiple hostiles, guarding an objective, how are looking ever direction they possible can trying desperately find any threats in the area in order to ensure their own survival, and I am supposed to do all of this while all of those hostiles out class me in survivability by nearly a multiple of three, and all because I've got some dampening mods and I happen to be able to see where they are on my scope. Ridiculous.

The reason I run what I run is because it work. It doesn't work as well as it should but it works a hell of a lot better than the ridiculousness you guys are suggesting.

So this brings me to the point were we need to ask a couple of fundamental question:

1. Who would be stupid enough to actually use scan and dampening mods on a scout?

2. So if scanning and dampening is not for scouts then who are they for?

Well come back and talk to us when you aren't all scaret of showing us who you are.

@ Rei:

Your post sums up my entire point: there is no viable recon fitting available to scouts.

what the hell am I suposed to do when I get to the recon point? Sit there and jerk it while the enemy hack the objective? Watch the enemy finish steam rolling the friendlies? Let them simply push through to a stratigic point? Recon is about more than just giving intel and any Army Ranger would be glad to tell you that. They don't give those guys guns for nothing you know.

{edit>>> I do what I can until reinforcements arive. And my 5% reduction in speed still puts me well above the speed of any assault out there especially when you consider that almost every assault is wearing at least one plate anyway. It does a hell of a lot better than what you are suggesting and that is experience talking.

And what the hell are you doing runing around in a vk with that kind of sh!t EHP? That sh!t would never fly in a corp battle against any one worth there salt.

The primary job of recon is to spot for your squadmates. Locate the enemies so the assault elements can move in with a better picture of what they're heading into.

They know where the enemies are, which direction they're facing, and how best to ambush them. If you hit a couple of guys with a quick spray of gunfire then disappear, that will divert their attention from where your main attack is about to hit. That means 2 - 3 enemies facing the wrong way, which can be enough to turn the tide. Sometimes you'll be able to draw more than just a couple of eyes your way without significant risk. You only fired a handful of shots, and didn't stay visible for long enough to even take fire, let alone get killed like you would if you entered combat, but you draw enemy attention away from the threat, and give your teammates an edge they could never have without you. The high speed and low profile mean that as soon as you turn the corner, you're invisible. The scanning modules (backed by relevant skills) mean the same DOESN'T hold true for your enemies, who remain lit up as long as they're anywhere near you.

I prefer to play it just the opposite-- wait until both sides are fully committed, then slip in behind and start hacking important stuff and shredding distracted personnel. Admittedly, your approach has the advantage of getting the battle started on the right foot, but I do my best work when nobody's trying to cut me down with a Duvolle's.

The primary job of recon is to spot for your squadmates. Locate the enemies so the assault elements can move in with a better picture of what they're heading into.

They know where the enemies are, which direction they're facing, and how best to ambush them. If you hit a couple of guys with a quick spray of gunfire then disappear, that will divert their attention from where your main attack is about to hit. That means 2 - 3 enemies facing the wrong way, which can be enough to turn the tide. Sometimes you'll be able to draw more than just a couple of eyes your way without significant risk. You only fired a handful of shots, and didn't stay visible for long enough to even take fire, let alone get killed like you would if you entered combat, but you draw enemy attention away from the threat, and give your teammates an edge they could never have without you. The high speed and low profile mean that as soon as you turn the corner, you're invisible. The scanning modules (backed by relevant skills) mean the same DOESN'T hold true for your enemies, who remain lit up as long as they're anywhere near you.

I take that approach at times as well, check my edit.

Also, it's funny that someone who keeps saying he wants a "recon" build thinks that EHP is a primary consideration for such a build. If you're looking at EHP over other stats, you're doing recon wrong.

What dream world are you living in we're this actually works. This would require a set up which means that your squad would have to be coordinated and already at the recon point with you and ready to go. But this isn't/shouldn't be the case. You are recon which means that if you are doing your job right you are ariving at a stratigic point far in advance of the rest of your squad. If there is a problem at that point you cannot simply sit there and jerk it while the problem gets worse. You have to be able to do something substantial about it. And with that ridiculous fitting you suggested earlyer I can pretty much garantee that the only things you'll be contributing are sucking and dying.

I take that approach at times as well, check my edit.

Also, it's funny that someone who keeps saying he wants a "recon" build thinks that EHP is a primary consideration for such a build. If you're looking at EHP over other stats, you're doing recon wrong.

There are no highly-mobile combat suits. That's what Ignoble Son, et al, seem to want.