| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Son Down
SamsClub
0
   |
Posted - 2013.04.08 08:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?
I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.
I see what you're trying to do here, lol. Right now, scouts are pretty much missing an entire axis of hit detection. Did you even watch moejoe's video on scout hit detection? There is a reason CCP wiped in 30 minutes. Scouts were never meant to be "dodgy". They were meant to be fast, from point A to point B. Thats it. More speed....yeah, good one. Go back to COD.
|
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
458
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 08:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?
I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.
Suit bonus +30% shotgun fire rate.
The scout suit is a factory defect assault suit.
|
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 08:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
Shotgun scouts are overrated.
The real power of the Scout suit is the stealth and speed it provides over an Assault suit. Applying that advantage to whatever weapon you choose is what makes the suit. I've lost count how many times I've surprised a HMG Heavy by popping out right next to him and pumping his head full of good old reliable Gallente AR plasma. Because frak out ranging them, the DPS of a GEK in optimal is beastly. It's a different play style from Assault, and it's definitely not for everyone.
Scout may not be for you, but I personally love Type II AR Scouts. 
But that doesn't mean there isn't anything wrong with the Scout, and they do need some LoveGäó (Looking at sisi data, they will be receiving a fair amount of LoveGäó). |
Icedslayer
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
56
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 09:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
I always love to read these's posts they really make my day . First of all to the post about comparing all the suits with LVL 5 everything, you have to take into account for may build dropsuit command will no longer give a dampener bonus and the profile dampening skill will only be a 2% reduction per lvl. That goes a long way in helping the scout actually find its role. And ill agree with giving our speed back, after they even admit to slowing the scout down to much (back in codex if i remember correctly).
But to those who can't play the Scout, i here you its a more challenging role to play, you can't simply just sit there and soak up damage like a assault you have to out think your opponent and out maneuver them. Not only that the scout suit doesn't get good until you unlock the ADV Suit.
"I eat Heavies for breakfast" Icedslayer |
DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
427
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 09:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
I'm skilling out of the heavy and into scouts when respec comes. Yes... I know
"Skilling out of an UP suit into an even more UP suit?" lol
No joke though... I love the scout suit. I love its speed and different style of gaming. I thought about skilling into assault but.... That's no fun.. As for fixing the suit... More speed would be awesome. If not then a little more CPU would go a long way |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2401
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 11:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Stealth isn't a huge advantage on the Scout, and can easily be made up with modules on an Assault.
Scan Precision and Radius, on the other hand...
No matter how well-fitted an Assault is, a well-fitted Scout that actually operates as a Scout WILL see you, and WILL give your position to teammates.
And yes, a flanking sneak attack that isn't supported by your team is doomed to failure in a Corp Battle.
But if you time your attack for when the frontal assault hits, you'll divide the enemy team's attention, potentially causing a rout of the enemy team that could otherwise never have been achieved. That's called TEAMWORK. Just because you're working behind enemy lines, doesn't mean you're not part of the team. Also, if the enemy has a nest of Snipers, your Shotgun Scout can get into the midst of them undetected when other suits can't. Then tear big holes in their skulls at point-blank range. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 04:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:I think the Scout suit is a way more specialized role. The speed and stealth help a lot and you are hard to hit making it easy to sneak up behind an enemy and take him down
Who is 'him'? Take whom down? When you sneak up on someone in a competitive game with corps rather than random blue dots - you are not sneaking up on a person - you sneak up on a full squad of ppl in proto suits 80% of the time. In a scout suit all this does is it adds +1 to their kill tally. so you want to be able to take down four people armed with the best, likely boasting the skill(real, not just points into) to use them, while you're alone. that seems stupid OP.
Please, don't put words in my mouth that I never said. All I said is that that 'niche' that pple often quote for scout: i.e. sneak up on your prey and destroy it in CQC at this present point in time is de facto absent from the game. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 04:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
People say that you can increase base speed or spring speed to buff Scout. I think this wont happen because early on in beta this is how things actually were and I think it was responsible in large part for poor hit detection rate against scouts, and I think this is why CCP nerfed strafing. So increasing speed wont help.
Some sort of weapon specific proficiency bonus, like +15% to SG, SMG, SR damage that is gained only by scout suits and only with leveling the scout suit skill would be sweet tho. |
Icy TIG3R
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 04:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
I swear, some of the posts in this thread are completely f******* r*******.
SCOUTS HAVE NO STEALTH BONUS. IF SOMEONE LOOKS UP. THEY SEE ME. AND THEN, SAID SCOUT IS DEAD IN 2 SECONDS.
Hit detection is not my f******** problem. That was one incident in Moejoe's video, and hit detection is not game mechanics. Look around in a match once, how many Assaults, Logos, and Heavy's do you see? Yet there's only 1-2 Scouts, 50% of the time snipers. Do snipers need speed? F*** no.
If you question my credebility, next time I'm in a game with you, I'll pull out my Scout, I'll probably do well, but I can easily double my WP in an Assault suit.
Shields? Better on Assault. Armor? Better on Assault. A slight speed boost, nearly useless when bullets can hit you around cover. Lower Scan? Useless, as soon as you walk into someone's fov, you're *******.
Therefore, Scouts require a buff. Just making the cloak exclusive to Scout would help, but a lot of you bitches want it along with a tanked suit with damage mods. |
Icy TIG3R
Fraternity of St. Venefice
Amarr Empire
73
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 04:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
What I'm trying to say is...
Stop making things so goddamn useless. We saw it with tactical rifles, we see it with drop ships, it's completely clear with Nova Knives, (but idiots want those to "remain niche" and completely garbage, Maken is the only one to make good use at times), and dozens of other modules, and equipment. My question is why?
We don't need everyone to be Assault AR. Dust was and should be about diverse roles. So let's get back to where it was. |
|
|
DJINN Marauder
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
431
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 04:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
I say f uck the other suits! Let only scouts use cloaking! |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 04:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?
I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.
Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be using it like an Assault Suit ?, because if a scout suit performs better at the Assault role, where does that leaves THE Assault suit ?
The Scout suit is for ...scouting, infiltration, assasination....it is not meant for head on combat. |
icdedppul
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm a scout....
more cpu would be nice
could care less about stealth module as I never plan to sit still as sitting still means death for a scout.
I think the shot gun is ridiculous and most 'fixes' seem to be geared toward the shotgun mentality imo
I think a slight CPU upgrade would be wonderful
Circuitry 5
Light Weapon Upgrade Pro 2 or 3
Shield upgrades 5 (yup 310K SP spent to get a 3% CPU reduction on shield extenders)
any other skill that would reduce CPU usage of any module or piece of equipment I carry
and CPU upgrades 3, cause when I actually do put on my proto scout suit I actually need to use a low slot for one, and its the VK.1 because I need the extra CPU it provides |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2410
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:SCOUTS HAVE NO STEALTH BONUS. IF SOMEONE LOOKS UP. THEY SEE ME. AND THEN, SAID SCOUT IS DEAD IN 2 SECONDS.
And if my Scout is behind a wall, I have 25m in which I can see everyone's current position and facing WITHOUT needing to walk face-first into a Heavy that's corner camping. I can spot him, and either find another way around or let my teammates know so they can rip into him before I turn the corner and finish the job. |
Sontie
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
210
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
I don't think you're playing your scout suit right. I have an alt I created to draw passive SP that I run scout type experiments with. I put a mil points into scanning, have tried (and enjoyed) nova knifing, and now split my time between shotgunning and nova knifing. Every once in a while I'll equip an AR (skill lvl 1) and completely **** face.
This is with a type A, double shield mods, and, and adv speed mod and a adv radar mod. Having scan precision at lvl 4 means that with that radar mod, I will know where most of my enemies are within like 40 meter. The shield mods with the scouts strafing speed means I can usually out gun most people. And those whom I can't (like proto assault suits with good gun game), I can run and flank really quickly.
It's so easy that I'm thinking of going scout when the reset happens... and might even put my mass driver on the shelf for a while too, because if that AR would have been a duvole... |
icdedppul
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
sadly you wouldnt be able to fit a duvole with that fit |
Tarquin Markel
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
89
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:SCOUTS HAVE NO STEALTH BONUS. IF SOMEONE LOOKS UP. THEY SEE ME. AND THEN, SAID SCOUT IS DEAD IN 2 SECONDS.
Hit detection is not my f******** problem. That was one incident in Moejoe's video, and hit detection is not game mechanics. Look around in a match once, how many Assaults, Logos, and Heavy's do you see? Yet there's only 1-2 Scouts, 50% of the time snipers. Do snipers need speed? F*** no.
....
Shields? Better on Assault. Armor? Better on Assault. A slight speed boost, nearly useless when bullets can hit you around cover. Lower Scan? Useless, as soon as you walk into someone's fov, you're *******.
Therefore, Scouts require a buff. Just making the cloak exclusive to Scout would help, but a lot of you bitches want it along with a tanked suit with damage mods.
Heya, Icy.
Interesting thoughts. Let me see if I can respond in a way that satisfies.
The kind of role you seem to be imagining for a "strong" scout-- one capable of coming up even on war points-- is an attractive one, and probably one that some of my teammates (stateproperty07 comes to mind) would prefer I use.
The scout setup I usually use is probably one of the weakest suits in a straight fight. If forced to fight head on, I whip out an SMG. The enemy gets an AR if I'm lucky, shotgun or (god forbid) HMG if I'm not. My best chance is to zig-zag like mad, try to focus my spray in roughly the right direction, and hope to God that I manage to bestow the required tally of hot lead before my defenses fold. I have to fight my every instinct and remember to zig-zag TOWARDS the goddamn assault suit, not away.
If I'm lucky, I win. If not....
So why the hell would I spend most of my time running around in a scout suit? Aside from masochism, that is.
The short answer is "situational awareness."
The thing is, with a scout suit, every straight fight is a desperate fight. So, if I'm on my game, I don't fight straight. Lurk behind cover, track enemy movements on radar, evade like crazy, call in support, flank, sucker-punch. If an assault suit is looking at me across open ground, he's either one plasma burst from death or I made a serious mistake.
The scout suit excels in the attributes most neglected in the current build: electronics. Best sensors, best profile, and take it from me, it matters. Assault suits are fearsome in a conventional firefight, but less so if they don't see you slipping up behind. Shotgun scouts lose most of their power if you see them coming on the mini-map and twist away from wherever you were as they "snuck up on you" with a mid-ranged weapon ready to go. Even heavies are vulnerable-- not because they go down easy, but because they tend to be very focused on taking down what's in front before turning to face a new threat (believing, I presume, and probably correctly, that turning your flank to an AR assault is a bad idea).
Currently, stealth in DUST has two layers: the RL (or Monty Python, if you prefer) -like Art of Not Being Seen and the electronics game. Anybody can do the former, though being able to bound over railings helps a bunch and I gather heavies don't do that. The electronics game, however, becomes important when the Art of Not Being Seen is being practiced successfully-- either because someone is proactively staying out of sight or because someone is staying out of sight and therefore has trouble tracking hostile movement visually.
If you have your back to a shotgun scout, it's pretty damned important whether your sensors are good enough to pick it up. Likewise, if you're trying to bring an SMG to bare on the head of an assault suited hacker, it's best if your little orange dot isn't appearing on the mini map.
If I'm in a firefight I just can't seem to escape, and sometimes that's exactly the way of it, then yes, I'll bring in an assault. I invested in decent assaults for just this reason. I prefer, however, to get myself lost while making sure others get found in compromising positions. For that, there's nothing like a scout.
Dampening modules are out of fashion right now, but fashion can go kitten itself. Just because few take advantage doesn't mean the advantage doesn't exist. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
131
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:52:00 -
[48] - Quote
+1 for that post man.
Like he said, a good scout gets me from behind, a bad one i get from the front as an assault. |
icdedppul
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:52:00 -
[49] - Quote
OH OH new thought
NOT HAVING 2 JUMPS KILL YOUR ENTIRE STAMINA
that would be awesome.. the anti bunny hoping nerf to jumping and stamina is very annoying when I miss jumping on my second jump and have to sit there waiting for stamina to recharge to get where I want to go. then you dont wait long enough and try again but dont have enough stamina for a proper jump so dont make it and wipe out your stamina again.
its a knee high fence why cant I hop over it dammit |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2410
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 06:04:00 -
[50] - Quote
icdedppul wrote:OH OH new thought
NOT HAVING 2 JUMPS KILL YOUR ENTIRE STAMINA
that would be awesome.. the anti bunny hoping nerf to jumping and stamina is very annoying when I miss jumping on my second jump and have to sit there waiting for stamina to recharge to get where I want to go. then you dont wait long enough and try again but dont have enough stamina for a proper jump so dont make it and wipe out your stamina again.
its a knee high fence why cant I hop over it dammit
Train your "Vigor" skill. Your Scout can now hop around like a lunatic WITHOUT any mods. Add them, and it's even better. |
|
|
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 03:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
I think the current problem with Scout builds is the same problem with the Heavy. It's Sharpshooter. Every AR and Laser can reach out and touch you from across the map. It doesn't matter whether or not I avoid pinging your radar if I from 100m out. Most of the time you guys are shooting at people far outside your radar, whether they pinged you or not.
Say you saw me sprinting to cover. You can still see me, despite my stealth, and hit me, despite my speed and the distance. If I am far enough away, my speed doesn't even overcome your crosshair turning speed and you can track me the whole way.
Heavies are GEK bait the same way: It doesn't matter that they have the HP to tank you down toe to toe, they need to get to you first and you've removed their shields and half armor by then.
It sounds like CCP moved away from +Range bonuses for Uprising, so that should bring a lot of the fighting closer together overall. Snipers will stay on the outskirts, and AR's will be back to medium range. Close Quarters Combat will matter again.
Scouts however could use more CPU, or possibly an extra low slot. I have no idea why CPU is so low, but it's ridiculous. Assault B-series gets 231cpu, with 3 high, 2 low, and a sidearm. Scout B-series gets 177cpu with 2 high, 2 low, no sidearm. Given less slots to work with and less cpu, our choices are much more restricted. If I had higher CPU than Assault I would still run fewer mods but at least the ones I do run would be at the Complex level. An extra low slot would at least keep me from having to chose between Armor Reps and Kinetic Catalyzer. |
loumanchew
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 03:46:00 -
[52] - Quote
Big miku wrote:How to fix scouts?
Allow them to dual wield light weapons I say.
Great idea actually, but they will need the cpu to actually use them. My main problem with the scout is the fact that you can level your shields, speed modules, weapons and equipment...but you can't wear them.
The type 2 suit is a joke. |
WyrmHero1945
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
108
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 04:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
3 things imo is what make a scout good:
-Fastest shield recharge delay than any suit. But with such low shields it's sometimes useless when the shield is depleted, since it's the same depleted shield delay recharge as the assault suit.
-Highest speed, very good for out strafing and getting to places quickly. I use a scout fit for setting up a drop uplink asap and then go for some shotgun kills till I die.
-Lowest dB scanning values. I use this at its most. With dropsuit command V no one will see you in their radar, even if you shoot or sprint. I have killed 3 players with a shotgun by jumping behind their backs, they didn't had any idea I was there. Sometimes a guy will stand there face to face seeing me and won't shoot, confusing me with another teammate.
Stamina is plenty and useless if you can't tank hits, and I have terrible aim while jumping, but higher skillful players will use this to their advantage.
If the Caldari scout suit ever comes out I predict that it'll be more useful than the Gallente because of shield tank and even more faster (less armor), but with higher dB scanning values because of shields.
Scouts need to be fragile anyways because having higher speed than your enemy in a FPS is a huge advantage, and more HP would make it OP. |
Son Down
SamsClub
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:03:00 -
[54] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:What I'm trying to say is...
Stop making things so goddamn useless. We saw it with tactical rifles, we see it with drop ships, it's completely clear with Nova Knives, (but idiots want those to "remain niche" and completely garbage, Maken is the only one to make good use at times), and dozens of other modules, and equipment. My question is why?
We don't need everyone to be Assault AR. Dust was and should be about diverse roles. So let's get back to where it was.
No. You have it wrong. Period. You sound like some affirmative action douche bag, screaming for equality among Dust 514 weapons. Look.....every game needs a base weapon. If you are simply not talented enough to run said weapon...than just accept it, and move on. You're waiting to find something you think you can "be awesome with" but it just isn't happening. Move on, kid. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.
So what you're saying is that you did something that would get anyone killed (standing still while taking fire) and complaining that the stealthy, speedy, paper dragon style suit melted?
Just another day in Eve I guess... |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 18:51:00 -
[56] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Icy TIG3R wrote:Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?
I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed. Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be using it like an Assault Suit ?, because if a scout suit performs better at the Assault role, where does that leaves THE Assault suit ? The Scout suit is for ...scouting, infiltration, assasination....it is not meant for head on combat. Most scouts are so adorable, they rush at me at high speed, in a straight line towards me ....your forward speed has no meaning at this point, nor does your smaller frame size if you use it like this. And stopping to shoot back at me when i am already firing, does not help either...because you are not going to out tank the assault suit in its own assault style of play...
This entire thread can be responded to with this post.
*slowclap* |
Beren Hurin
OMNI Endeavors
O.M.N.I. Initiative
352
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 19:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
I'm thinking racial suit bonuses will give scout the roles based bonuses that they need. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 19:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Fenix Alexarr wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Icy TIG3R wrote:Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it?
I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed. Maybe, just maybe you shouldn't be using it like an Assault Suit ?, because if a scout suit performs better at the Assault role, where does that leaves THE Assault suit ? The Scout suit is for ...scouting, infiltration, assasination....it is not meant for head on combat. Most scouts are so adorable, they rush at me at high speed, in a straight line towards me ....your forward speed has no meaning at this point, nor does your smaller frame size if you use it like this. And stopping to shoot back at me when i am already firing, does not help either...because you are not going to out tank the assault suit in its own assault style of play... This entire thread can be responded to with this post. *slowclap*
Lol, i have my moments :)
Quote:Icy TIG3R wrote:
That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.
Whoa ....it takes people 5-6 seconds to kill you WHILE you stand still ??, if i stand still in my proto Assault VK1-suit with 533 shields & 120 armor IF i stand still someone can smoke me in 1 whole second or less if they hit my head.
Pro-Tip: If you stand still, why are you using a speed based suit ? Let that sink in for a moment...
Really, never stand still, even while shooting, the moment you stop moving, yer dead even in a protosuit, hell heavies who think standing still is key = Gone in 1 Second. |
Invading Oren
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 19:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
A fix for scouts? They can run faster,strafe faster,shield regen faster,smaller hitbox, benefit the most from the lag and "blue shield" thing. No thanks |
Maken Tosch
OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT
1952
|
Posted - 2013.04.10 19:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.
Why are you standing still? |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |