DUST Search - What can be done to "fix" the Scout suit?

Logi Bro wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

Logi Bro wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything

In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts.

Do you mean worried about them because they are too weak or because they are too strong?

If you read the link you will see that the data pertains to following categories:

Endurance in terms of Stamina amount and recovery speed of stamina.
Stealth in terms dB.
Sprint speed in m/s.
Scan precision.

I would say worry because the Logis are stronger in most of these categories. They are practically the stealthiest suits, possess the best situational awareness, and can do record marathon runs compared to all the other suits. The Assault is better than the scout during these tests but only for scan precision and low profile.

The Logis are also the most flexible suits on the field as they are the Swiss Army Knives of Dust 514. Jack of all trades and offer the best overall hacking capabilities.

I asked for clarification on your part because you said "I'd be more worried about logibros than scouts," and in this thread, the topic is worrying about UP-ness of the scout.

I'm just going to throw out that hacking speed increases is a racial specific bonus to the Minmatar, and when you compare that to more shields(Caldari logi bonus) or Increased repair effects of armor rep mods(Amarr logi bonus) then suddenly far fewer people use Minmatar, because they prefer their own survival-ability than supporting their team-mates.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Icy TIG3R Universal Allies Inc. 14	Posted - 2013.04.02 22:27:00 - [1] - Quote Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it? I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 345	Posted - 2013.04.02 22:57:00 - [2] - Quote No. Scouts will be benefitting from future stealth modules the most. Admittedly, at the moment, they're underpowered. But if my sp wasn't invested elsewhere, I'd be having the most fun with scout suits, running and jumping around everywhere people don't expect me.
DUST Fiend Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2274	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:01:00 - [3] - Quote Shotgun scouts for life bro. They just need a little more oomf in CPU, and shield rechargers need to not cost 3 arms and a leg to fit (60/90 CPU dafuq?).
Blondie Roads Imperfects Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:02:00 - [4] - Quote Until they fix the hit detection....Nothing. Scouts are hard to hit as is and any kind of speed buff would make the problem worse. I dothink a few more cpu and slots are in order to improve them a bit. The repect will be a big tell on the current scouts that complaine about being underpowered. You all get one more chance.
Icy TIG3R Universal Allies Inc. 15	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:14:00 - [5] - Quote That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields.
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 14	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:36:00 - [6] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it? I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed. Perhaps any one specific thing, for instance making an assault more stealthy, quicker or have a higher shield recharge rate than a scout. But to do all things better, or even more than one.... I have my doubts. I'm one of those that haven't specced into the suit yet though, so I realize I'm no authority on this subject. Whenever I move to an assault suit though I find myself saying: it's slower, the shields recharger more slowly, the scan profile is higher, the scan precision is higher.... it's got more armor and shields; that's good. I can offset any one of those but I always go back to the scout fit because it does so many things for me so well.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation 209	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:39:00 - [7] - Quote Anything a scout suit doe- I bet you can't jump as high as us.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 261	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:56:00 - [8] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields. well that is somewhat the point. The idea of the scout was RECON . RECON usually long range away giving call outs; not on the front line. For those running AR's & such; they will be weaker health wise, yet they are faster, better strafing/more maneuverable , and lower signature. As someone else said, they will be strengthened by use of active scanners for upfront recon, and use the the cloak module. I'd say the only thing needed atm for scouts is more CPU/PG ; other then that they are being as intended. Plus with the new skill system of advanced suits getting bonuses (probably health), you will have more survivability.
Delirium Inferno Chernova Industries 88	Posted - 2013.04.02 23:59:00 - [9] - Quote Surely they won't do anything by next update, and that means I will be abandoning my scout suit with the skill point respec.
N1ck Comeau Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 204	Posted - 2013.04.03 00:02:00 - [10] - Quote I think the Scout suit is a way more specialized role. The speed and stealth help a lot and you are hard to hit making it easy to sneak up behind an enemy and take him down

Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 443	Posted - 2013.04.03 00:33:00 - [11] - Quote There are things the scout does better and the future ewar and stealth mods will both help them.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1887	Posted - 2013.04.03 00:55:00 - [12] - Quote I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts.
Thumb Green THE STAR BORN 48	Posted - 2013.04.03 00:55:00 - [13] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields. A militia AR can kill a heavy in 5-6 seconds if s\he stands still. The only thing that makes the militia AR worse in battle than the standard AR is it's got a smaller clip and takes a little longer to reload. It's got the same damage and the same rate of fire and the same accuracy rating. The gek is only marginally better than the standard AR. Why dafuq are you standing still?
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 13	Posted - 2013.04.03 02:02:00 - [14] - Quote scout suits are awesome
Icy TIG3R Universal Allies Inc. 16	Posted - 2013.04.03 02:05:00 - [15] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Icy TIG3R wrote: That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields. well that is somewhat the point. The idea of the scout was RECON . RECON usually long range away giving call outs; not on the front line. For those running AR's & such; they will be weaker health wise, yet they are faster, better strafing/more maneuverable , and lower signature. As someone else said, they will be strengthened by use of active scanners for upfront recon, and use the the cloak module. I'd say the only thing needed atm for scouts is more CPU/PG ; other then that they are being as intended. Plus with the new skill system of advanced suits getting bonuses (probably health), you will have more survivability. I thought Scout meant scouting ahead of the group (speed bonus), being quick, getting a couple kills, then getting out for the big guns. It can be argued that Scouts are stealthy, except they're not, they stand out as a free kill 70% of the time.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:29:00 - [16] - Quote Man I hate how they put that 'stealth' bandaid on Scouts because they are so broken. Now this is a perfect excuse not to try to improve the FPS aspects of the suit. In the end CCP will also have the perfect excuse: 'oh we put stealth into the game for scouts because this is what the community asked for'. I'd have to wait and see before issuing a final judgement but I am near certain that stealth will require no real skill in using. It's just gonna be a crotch to keep noobs from quitting the game instead of a real solution that would make scouts competitive in battle. As to the rest of the game it's gonna be business as usual only two choices: assault suit with assault rifle or a Heavy with HMG.
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1090	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:31:00 - [17] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields. I have roughly 550 EHP on my STD logi fit and if I stand still I will die in 5 seconds too. Solution: Don't stand still.
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 95	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:31:00 - [18] - Quote How to fix scouts? Allow them to dual wield light weapons I say.
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1090	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:32:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts. Do you mean worried about them because they are too weak or because they are too strong?
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:41:00 - [20] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Icy TIG3R wrote: That's the thing, people who haven't advanced into them think they're fine, but it's ridiculously easy to kill a Scout suit. I may spec into something else, but I still want Scout's fixed. At the moment, a militia AR can kill me easily in about 5-6 seconds if I stand still, and I'm running complex shields. well that is somewhat the point. The idea of the scout was RECON . RECON usually long range away giving call outs; not on the front line. For those running AR's & such; they will be weaker health wise, yet they are faster, better strafing/more maneuverable , and lower signature. As someone else said, they will be strengthened by use of active scanners for upfront recon, and use the the cloak module. I'd say the only thing needed atm for scouts is more CPU/PG ; other then that they are being as intended. Plus with the new skill system of advanced suits getting bonuses (probably health), you will have more survivability. How is that being as intended? You realize you just said that scout is supposed to sit on the redline and count how many reddots are running around the map, right?

Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:44:00 - [21] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: I think the Scout suit is a way more specialized role. The speed and stealth help a lot and you are hard to hit making it easy to sneak up behind an enemy and take him down Who is 'him'? Take whom down? When you sneak up on someone in a competitive game with corps rather than random blue dots - you are not sneaking up on a person - you sneak up on a full squad of ppl in proto suits 80% of the time. In a scout suit all this does is it adds +1 to their kill tally.
Delirium Inferno Chernova Industries 90	Posted - 2013.04.07 23:55:00 - [22] - Quote I stacked two enhanced armor plates and a basic shield extender on my type II scout and it's pretty amazing right now. I have 92 Shield and 335 Armor, so 427 total hp. Even with the -10% speed I still feel really fast, and I maintain the low profile signature. Problem is I'm not too sure how much that low profile signature is helping. I mean I could put the same modules on a type II logistics and get 137 Shield and 354 Armor, totaling 491 hp. I'd also gain a high slot, 82 CPU, and 7 PG. The only downsides would be my basic movement speed would decrease from 4.95 m/s to 4.5 m/s and my profile signature would increase from 36 dB to 40 dB. The benefits clearly outweigh the downsides here. Big miku wrote: How to fix scouts? Allow them to dual wield light weapons I say. This would be nice, I absolutely love the Black Eagle suit because of this.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1935	Posted - 2013.04.08 02:11:00 - [23] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts. Do you mean worried about them because they are too weak or because they are too strong? If you read the link you will see that the data pertains to following categories: Endurance in terms of Stamina amount and recovery speed of stamina. Stealth in terms dB. Sprint speed in m/s. Scan precision. I would say worry because the Logis are stronger in most of these categories. They are practically the stealthiest suits, possess the best situational awareness, and can do record marathon runs compared to all the other suits. The Assault is better than the scout during these tests but only for scan precision and low profile. The Logis are also the most flexible suits on the field as they are the Swiss Army Knives of Dust 514. Jack of all trades and offer the best overall hacking capabilities.
Logi Bro Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 1095	Posted - 2013.04.08 02:34:00 - [24] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts. Do you mean worried about them because they are too weak or because they are too strong? If you read the link you will see that the data pertains to following categories: Endurance in terms of Stamina amount and recovery speed of stamina. Stealth in terms dB. Sprint speed in m/s. Scan precision. I would say worry because the Logis are stronger in most of these categories. They are practically the stealthiest suits, possess the best situational awareness, and can do record marathon runs compared to all the other suits. The Assault is better than the scout during these tests but only for scan precision and low profile. The Logis are also the most flexible suits on the field as they are the Swiss Army Knives of Dust 514. Jack of all trades and offer the best overall hacking capabilities. I asked for clarification on your part because you said "I'd be more worried about logibros than scouts," and in this thread, the topic is worrying about UP-ness of the scout. I'm just going to throw out that hacking speed increases is a racial specific bonus to the Minmatar, and when you compare that to more shields(Caldari logi bonus) or Increased repair effects of armor rep mods(Amarr logi bonus) then suddenly far fewer people use Minmatar, because they prefer their own survival-ability than supporting their team-mates.
Zekain Kade BetaMax. CRONOS. 1178	Posted - 2013.04.08 02:40:00 - [25] - Quote Make it giant.
Heathen Bastard Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 127	Posted - 2013.04.08 02:45:00 - [26] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: I think the Scout suit is a way more specialized role. The speed and stealth help a lot and you are hard to hit making it easy to sneak up behind an enemy and take him down Who is 'him'? Take whom down? When you sneak up on someone in a competitive game with corps rather than random blue dots - you are not sneaking up on a person - you sneak up on a full squad of ppl in proto suits 80% of the time. In a scout suit all this does is it adds +1 to their kill tally. so you want to be able to take down four people armed with the best, likely boasting the skill(real, not just points into) to use them, while you're alone. that seems stupid OP.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation 1935	Posted - 2013.04.08 02:45:00 - [27] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I suggest reading this thread I posted with all the information provided showing that assaults are not better than scouts at everything In fact, if I were you, I'd be more worried about the LogiBros than the scouts. Do you mean worried about them because they are too weak or because they are too strong? If you read the link you will see that the data pertains to following categories: Endurance in terms of Stamina amount and recovery speed of stamina. Stealth in terms dB. Sprint speed in m/s. Scan precision. I would say worry because the Logis are stronger in most of these categories. They are practically the stealthiest suits, possess the best situational awareness, and can do record marathon runs compared to all the other suits. The Assault is better than the scout during these tests but only for scan precision and low profile. The Logis are also the most flexible suits on the field as they are the Swiss Army Knives of Dust 514. Jack of all trades and offer the best overall hacking capabilities. I asked for clarification on your part because you said "I'd be more worried about logibros than scouts," and in this thread, the topic is worrying about UP-ness of the scout. I'm just going to throw out that hacking speed increases is a racial specific bonus to the Minmatar, and when you compare that to more shields(Caldari logi bonus) or Increased repair effects of armor rep mods(Amarr logi bonus) then suddenly far fewer people use Minmatar, because they prefer their own survival-ability than supporting their team-mates. True. But please keep in mind that the stats I posted are only current until May 6. Beyond that, I have no idea what changes will occur. I'll have to run the numbers all over again after that date.
Michael Cratar FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 196	Posted - 2013.04.08 03:19:00 - [28] - Quote Icy TIG3R wrote: Currently, anything a Scout suit does, an Assault suit does better. So, what can be done to improve it? I propose a 10% increase to base speed, and 15-20% increase to sprint speed. slight increase in stamina and stamina recovery. Also a built in passive armor repper. The built in passive armor repper will increase as the suit tier increases. Ex. standard will rep 2/s while the advanced will rep 3/s. Or can stay at 2/s. Its up to ya'll Getting the repper out of the way will allow the suit to fit more useful mods. Thus makeing the scout suit better. The stamina increase and recovery increase will allow the suit to be better at flanking and sneaking around. that's what most scouts are for, right? I think armor heavies should get a repper bonus, but that is for another topic. repper BONUS, not built in repper.
Viktor Hadah Jr D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 0	Posted - 2013.04.08 04:12:00 - [29] - Quote People could stop using scout suits in situations meant for assault suits. If you are going to be mainly shooting at people you might want to think about changing your skill plan before May 6th, try using your scout suit for more stealthy things sneak around red dots, drop uplinks in near an enemy objective, ninja hack objectives for your team, move around scouts suits are fast keep close to anyone with a shotgun and it should be a easy kill.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 124	Posted - 2013.04.08 08:05:00 - [30] - Quote I am switching to Assault suit. I am a Scout AR player that plays Assault role. I am for the most part in your face trying to get a 1v1 going I am always going where the enemies are. I do average at this I suppose but I feel like I might as well be a Assault since it's the role I am already forcing my Scout suit to play.



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