It still doesn't change the terms of your product after the fact.

Point in case:

I bought an apple iPhone 4 on release and got a warranty with it. That warranty covered water damage. About 7 months later they changed the terms and removed water damage coverage.
About a year later I dropped my phone in my horses water tub.
Apple refused to replace my phone because they didn't cover water damage anymore.
I sued them, and got a new iPhone 4 and court costs paid.

Why? Because WHEN YOU BUY THE ITEM YOU AGREE TO THE TERMS. If the terms change, no matter how long after, the terms you agreed to at point of purchase remain the same.

And trust me, apples legal department can run circles around CCPs.

It's "case in point" and that's not the same thing as this. That was a warranty, not a product.

Personally, I don't think it's worth fighting over. That being said, if you want a refund and are willing to accept a potential complete character/SP wipe (for everyone), then I have no reason to argue.

Can you come up with a better solution? A solution that satisfies both sides.

Legally speaking, a warranty is a type of product.

Poor wording on my part, forgot to include the rest of my point. The Warranty includes a clause that the terms may change and the consumer agrees to that. A separate agreement would be required for the product.

It's "case in point" and that's not the same thing as this. That was a warranty, not a product.

Question, if the community had a choice between a total reset for everyone and an AUR reset for everyone, why would they pick the total reset? How does CCP honoring their agreement hurt anyone?

Just Reset Everything

While there will be a mix of how people ran boosters the solution is simple.

CCP should take away the extra .5 SP players have made with boosters.
Players keep the Pre-booster SP.
CCP refunds ALL purchases.

It's not perfect, but CCP screwed up so there is no perfect solution. This way contractually fulfills the refund and keeps us from all getting completely reset back to 0 because of a few that feel CCP owes them.

EXAMPLE

Player A - 4 Million SP
-Never purchased AUR/Merc Packs (therefore never ran boosters)

Player B - 6 Million SP
-Purchased AUR/Merc Packs (ran both passive and active hense he made 1.5x player A)

SOLUTION

1. Take away the extra .5 SP that player B has made off of boosters = 2 million in this example
2. Refund player B's AUR/Merc Packs
2. Give both player A and B the ability to respec their SP any way they want

i hope this is clear

Both player A and B would be given 4 Million SP to respec and player B would have AUR/Merc Pack refunded

Greed huh? Who is the greedy one in truth? The person who wants all of what they paid for? Or the person who wants another person not to get what they paid for? It doesn't hurt you at all, this is entirely an issue between early adopters (and current gamestop customers) and CCP. At the end of the day there are plenty who can afford to buy more anyway. This is only about making a few people feel better because they had to pay more to do it.

Irony alert, people are promoting pay to win as a way to preserve fairness!

1. I know what I said.

2. A warranty is a product.

Yes, I know a warranty is a product. I meant to say the warranty, not the product.

Greed huh? Who is the greedy one in truth? The person who wants all of what they paid for? Or the person who wants another person not to get what they paid for?

Terms of purchase and terms of use are separate. Terms of purchase can't be changed after the fact, and include the advertising text used to sell the product at the time of purchase. If the text in the item description in the PS Store included reference to something, that particular inclusion is a legal obligation for the seller. When purchasing - BEFORE agreeing to terms of use, the terms of purchase included mention of the Aurum and items being reset at the commercial release.

That being said, I had a suggestion in another thread which I think will be the best of both worlds.

No SP reset. No ISK reset. No Booster reset. Full refund of all purchased non-Booster gear on commercial release.

This means EVERYTHING you own other than Boosters is sold back to the store at cost price. If you bought an item that wasn't a Booster with AUR, you get back the amount of AUR you spent on it. If you bought something that wasn't a booster with ISK, you get the ISK back. Boosters that were purchased as part of a game pack AREN'T refunded, but you keep all your SP, so you still have the EFFECT of that Booster. Any items awarded by these packs are refunded.

People who have been farming ISK don't get penalised by a reset. People who bought the Merc Pack and were advised they'd have all their stuff reset get it. People who spent Aurum on Boosters don't have to be reset and have to re-use their Boosters.

Best of all worlds, imo.

The original "refund at commercial release" part was under the assumption that there would be another reset at release. We now know there won't be one, therfore those people did get what they paid for. What we have no is people trying to take an advantage of a technicality, kind of like AFK farmers.

Lets assume that OB was CR, that was the 22nd and the last reset was the 10th If I remember right. I would bet you 10 mill ISK that if that had been the case people would be complaining that they didn't get their Aurum back on the 22nd, even though they got it back on the 10th.

CCP has already honored the spirit of the agreement, now people are just trying to take an advantage of a technicality.

I agree with Maken about removing the booster part of peoples SP and just giving them the refund, if they want it.

Terms of purchase and terms of use are separate. Terms of purchase can't be changed after the fact, and include the advertising text used to sell the product at the time of purchase. If the text in the item description in the PS Store included reference to something, that particular inclusion is a legal obligation for the seller. When purchasing - BEFORE agreeing to terms of use, the terms of purchase included mention of the Aurum and items being reset at the commercial release.

That being said, I had a suggestion in another thread which I think will be the best of both worlds.

No SP reset. No ISK reset. No Booster reset. Full refund of all purchased non-Booster gear on commercial release.

This means EVERYTHING you own other than Boosters is sold back to the store at cost price. If you bought an item that wasn't a Booster with AUR, you get back the amount of AUR you spent on it. If you bought something that wasn't a booster with ISK, you get the ISK back. Boosters that were purchased as part of a game pack AREN'T refunded, but you keep all your SP, so you still have the EFFECT of that Booster. Any items awarded by these packs are refunded.

People who have been farming ISK don't get penalised by a reset. People who bought the Merc Pack and were advised they'd have all their stuff reset get it. People who spent Aurum on Boosters don't have to be reset and have to re-use their Boosters.

Best of all worlds, imo.

You're really arguing that getting these items in a beta with only a small sliver of the game playable and probably AT LEAST 6 more months before the game launches is "in the spirit" of getting these items at launch?

Simple solution:

CCP honors the terms of the merc pack and gives the people who purchased the Merc Pack the items in the Merc Pack at "commercial release". This is an agreement between CCP and their paying customers. Whether it satisfies the "I don't want the people who paid to get the thing they purchased" crowd or not is really irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. If you wanted a Merc Pack, you should have bought one, if you didn't, then what's the problem?

We currently have no plans to reset your characters' skill points to a state where they are equivalent to a newly created character, barring something catastrophic.

And what problem do you have with giving up any boosted SP? CCP only said they wouldn't fully reset SP, not that they wouldn't take parts of it away.


As long as they don't put you back at 0, they technically haven't lied.

And what problem do you have with giving up any boosted SP? CCP only said they wouldn't fully reset SP, not that they wouldn't take parts of it away.


As long as they don't put you back at 0, they technically haven't lied.

And what problem do you have with giving up any boosted SP? CCP only said they wouldn't fully reset SP, not that they wouldn't take parts of it away.


As long as they don't put you back at 0, they technically haven't lied.

Seems like a complicated way of fixing a simple problem

Many people spent their stuff from the Merc Pack assuming that it would be refunded at launch

I don't have any problem giving back boosted SP if I get my booster back. I just don't see why it's necessary. Seems like a complicated way of fixing a simple problem, and one that the only purpose of is to say "nanny nanny boo boo" to paying customers.

Furthermore, this issue STILL hasn't been officially clarified by CCP. Many people spent their stuff from the Merc Pack assuming that it would be refunded at launch. If CCP would communicate with the players about this it would really clear this up.

We all know what they say about assumptions.