I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

If they remove infinite ammo, then they need to lower the pg/cpu requirements of weapons or add an additional slot/cpu-pg to the vehicles to make up for it.

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

Killing a tank in BF3 is pathetically easier than it is in dust.

Oh look a nerf vehicles thread...

There is not a practical way to resupply vehicles if they were to run out of ammo. An infantry nanohive? Seriously?

The vehicles are far from perfect in how they fit in the game currently, but they are not in need of an ammo nerf at all.

How would you reload them? These aren't timed kill streaks, people are going to revolve their entire game around sitting in one. Ammo has to be at least as plentiful as it is for infantry before you seriously consider this, so answer me how.

How would you reload them? These aren't timed kill streaks, people are going to revolve their entire game around sitting in one. Ammo has to be at least as plentiful as it is for infantry before you seriously consider this, so answer me how.

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

When I run low on ammo I hit the square button to reload, if I have little to no ammo I go to a supply depot or throw out a nano hive. How would this be unreasonable? I don't drive tanks, so do gunners or the drivers use the square button? Also my suggestion of a module would give vehicles infinite ammo but they would have to make a choice to equip it.

Killing a tank in BF3 is pathetically easier than it is in dust.

first off ive seen a million of these threads use search........second idk why people say yes or give u likes for it the AV weapons in this game kicks a tanks ass i blow the strongest to kingdom come with a swarm launcher and i never have problems with the tanks in this that i wouldnt have with any other game its fun and u feel accomplished when u destroy one end of story doesnt need a change people need better tactics than the stand in front of it as u get shot up though

Alright man post a couple links to these threads. There is millions so you can at least come up with ten right? An what ******* swarm launcher are you using that can blow up the strongest tanks in this game. Mine is maxed out with 3 10% damage increasers an I can shoot all 7 at noc an barely get through his shields. Just shut your mouth an quit trying to ruin someones thread.

Alright man post a couple links to these threads. There is millions so you can at least come up with ten right? An what ******* swarm launcher are you using that can blow up the strongest tanks in this game. Mine is maxed out with 3 10% damage increasers an I can shoot all 7 at noc an barely get through his shields. Just shut your mouth an quit trying to ruin someones thread.

So you're saying you want to take out a vehicle designed solely for the purpose of breaking through a group of infantry with.... a single infantry unit? What is the purpose of the vehicle then if solo infantry can destroy it?

Have you read this whole ******* thread or are you really that incompetent?

So you're saying you want to take out a vehicle designed solely for the purpose of breaking through a group of infantry with.... a single infantry unit? What is the purpose of the vehicle then if solo infantry can destroy it?

Its similar to how a small dog, such as a chiwawa will bark at high speed almost constantly, while the larger dogs such as a Labrador will just lay down and sleep.

Yeah I just wanted a civilized discussion over an Idea I had.

If tanks do have internal nano hives then it would be feasible to strap a nano hive to the back of a dropsuit for infinite ammo. If infantry want nano hives they have to consciously make the decision to equip nano hives, I feel that vehicle drivers should also have to make the decision to equip nano hives or use the module slot for defensive or offensive purposes.

Someone earlier mention the size of infantry nano hives, and the answer is to have the nano hives use the current radius for infantry and they would have a larger radius for vehicles.

Hopefully it can work like eve ammo for the HAV's.

Eve players buy loads of ammo.Such as one blast out of all their 6 turrets costs 6 of their ammunition tat's equipped with the gun. They just buy stock loads of it. It's pretty cheap though if you just want standard rounds. There is tech 2 rounds and the advanced.

wat we really need is for remote explosives to stick to tanks and do enough damage so that 2 kill a militia tank and 4 kill a marauder

Oh really? LOL.

Limited amo is a great idea, and a solution to supply depots getting destroyed by vehicles.

btw, now that i think about it, whats stl? are you 989 millimeters tall?

A-10 Warthogs have enough ammo to fire for a couple seconds at best

We built a plane around a weapon that can only be used for a few seconds?

Said this months ago good job OP!

4,200 shots per minute i just read.

4,200 shots per minute i just read.

Hooray for quick wikipedia research!

i feel this issue is settled. what ever the reason.... tanks dont need resupply.

I disagree.

If we would have finite ammo then we would also need a lot better gun tracking for tanks as currently you really just pray and spray and likely hit something with the 5th volley.

Unless it's the main gun with it's huge splash radius.

i say you're QQ. i spent SP into something that my team could use to counter other tanks. now you're telling me i'm too OP because my tank has infinite rounds. at first i though the Forge Gun was UnderPowered, until i drove a tank. now 2 guys with forge guns can take me out. if they work together. tanks miss a lot of shots, my tank does not hit every shot i shoot. if you die because of a tank and are requesting this, then you need to play tank roll. see how it is.

The reason why Vechiles have unlimited ammo is because enemies can re-spawn.
In real life a tank don't resupply because you don't have to kill the same person twice because he came back!

Dust is a VIDEO GAME people.

The reason why Vechiles have unlimited ammo is because enemies can re-spawn.
In real life a tank don't resupply because you don't have to kill the same person twice because he came back!

Dust is a VIDEO GAME people.

Are you saying that a tank is made with the exact amount of ammo that it will need for the entirety of its military use, never having to be resupplied?

Lurch's idea that tanks are probably equipped with internal nano hives is the best explanation I've heard. If the designers of these tanks were smart enough to throw in an internal nano hive then I believe my Merc would be clever enough to duct tape a nano hive to his back in order to have infinite ammo as well.

very fair and also very reasonable

only retort i have is dropsuits dont have quite the cpu/pg capacities that a vehicle does....

we'll just have to see what happens next build

btw........


OMG NEXT BUILD this has been building up so much in my mind its like the next build is gonna have the goddamn meaning of life in it. Cant wait!

Don't get your hopes up to high, they can only implement so many things a build.

Don't get your <3 broke.

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

You want limited ammo on vehicles? I for one disagree with this, but let me entertain an alternative.

Several people have mentioned Nano-hives for vehicles. To be honest, this is what I think is actually the current situation. Each turret has a built in nano-hive that produces rounds as needed. However, what if we were to change the rate of ammo regeneration so that it's lower than the maximum fire rate, and introduce an ammo hopper of x size for each weapon? This would still give vehicles infinite ammo, but you could run out temporarily if you just fire continuously. This ammo generation rate would be increased by proximity to supply depos and nano-hives.

To expand upon that (and what others have mentioned) you could add a nano-hive as a module to your tank. This would increase the rate of ammo generation for all your turrets (maybe to the point where you can continuously fire without having to worry about your reserve) AND provide ammo resupply to friendly vehicles and infantry nearby. Fitting requirements for such a module might be similar to a CRU. Variants might also repair armour passively for yourself and others (at a similar rate to that of a nano-hive, so not that much in the scheme of things for vehicle combat)

no i fully agree, especially fo rthe incoming artillery tanks.

Oh look a nerf vehicles thread...

There is not a practical way to resupply vehicles if they were to run out of ammo. An infantry nanohive? Seriously?

The vehicles are far from perfect in how they fit in the game currently, but they are not in need of an ammo nerf at all.

You want limited ammo on vehicles? I for one disagree with this, but let me entertain an alternative.

Several people have mentioned Nano-hives for vehicles. To be honest, this is what I think is actually the current situation. Each turret has a built in nano-hive that produces rounds as needed. However, what if we were to change the rate of ammo regeneration so that it's lower than the maximum fire rate, and introduce an ammo hopper of x size for each weapon? This would still give vehicles infinite ammo, but you could run out temporarily if you just fire continuously. This ammo generation rate would be increased by proximity to supply depos and nano-hives.

To expand upon that (and what others have mentioned) you could add a nano-hive as a module to your tank. This would increase the rate of ammo generation for all your turrets (maybe to the point where you can continuously fire without having to worry about your reserve) AND provide ammo resupply to friendly vehicles and infantry nearby. Fitting requirements for such a module might be similar to a CRU. Variants might also repair armour passively for yourself and others (at a similar rate to that of a nano-hive, so not that much in the scheme of things for vehicle combat)

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

I think you're missreading his post. He's not asking to solo highend tanks, he's calling bullshit on a guy who claims to solo high end tanks.

i never said i solo its always a group effort but my advanced swarm takes down the shield in 3 or 4 hits and does consistant damage without me complaining about how OP they r cause they just arent now if they flew and can rain death all around then i could see a problem lol if they use cover most do i have to wait for my forge guy to scare him out then i spam more missles sadly i dont have that much sp to have both forge and swarm :( but i should get proto swarm this weekend

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

This discussion isn't about AV weapons, its about the validity of infinite ammo. Vehicles having a set ammo would make them more strategic and they would be able to resupply through the exact same methods infantry do.

it sounds a lot like a vehicles r OP thread and reading through all the others statements im sure they have a science around it plus vehicles become worthless if they have a set low # and if it is a high # u dont need to keep track of ammo (video game wise) a low amount of ammo for tanks would be a very high amount of ammo for us it would be better to keep it the way it is

You're talking about the extremes, I'm sure CCP would be capable of balancing the amount of ammo for vehicles.

idk i think it isnt a good idea :( at most if they wanted to and i dont want them to id accept a longer load time just a several seconds more but can be decreased with skills but at that cost it may make the machine worthless unless hitting the targets in gunner seats becomes easier and can anybody give me the #'s on tank gun prices vs soldier gun prices

Easier? All you have to do is aim at the guy's feet, the Missiles are all about splash damage.

Again, I just can't see a justification for infinite ammo for vehicles, as it clashes with all established backstory of the universe. I mean, we're talking about (soon to be) 1.2 million ISK HAVs. If those can equip modules that provide an infinite ammo count, why the hell wouldn't all the infinitely wealthy capsuleers have this equipment on every ship? It just doesn't make any sense.

or this is a science for it but why do nanohives give me unlimited ammo? they have nothing like nanohives in eve?

There are not, and Nanohives in Dust have a limited duration. The idea behind them is that the Nanites assemble themselves into the required material to be used by the weapon, so that the device runs out of them eventually. Naturally the amount of them necessary would increase exponentially with the size of the ammunition involved, at which point the device gets large and unwieldy enough that it starts to take up space you could be using for ammo storage, and becomes heavier to boot. You'll notice that our current Nanohives don't have any effect on tanks - not even repairs - due to what I would assume is a lack of sufficient nanites to make them functional in that capacity.

or ur reading wayyy too deep into it i think thats a gameplay flaw the science is questionable since i can spawn rockets from mine for my swarm if they didnt have infinite ammo they would affect it

What????

Nanohives while brilliantly smart and great are small so can create simple objects like the small ammunition the handheld weaponry use while tank ammo is a bit larger and more complex so this IMO is why tanks and spaceships in eve don't have nano hive technology for ammo (eve artillery ships have 1800mm cannons just to put sense of size those bad boys shoot) they can do small simple items not large complex things.

Vehicles shouldn't have infinite ammo it doesn't fit in with the rest of the world, I would go as far as saying the installations shouldn't have infinite ammo as well just huge stock piles of the stuff and eventually run out if not resupplied some how.

What????

Actually, if you look, the Swarm Launcher missiles are -far- smaller than the vehicle launched rockets. They do the high damage they do by virtue of shaped charges in their warheads, I would assume. That also explains why their missiles do almost no splash damage.

Are saying CCP based their missile mechanics on Ironman?

People blow up the supply depots and crus because it gets them sp, not because they have infinite ammo.

I don't mind vehicles having unlimited ammo as it's not really a problem(a landed gunships missile launcher is a bit of a nuisance though - happens far less now from what I've seen).

If you must nerf vehicle ammo then maybe set the vehicles internal nanohive to resupply at 50% constant fire rate with a fair amount of ammo capacity(would have to figure the right amount out). This shouldn't affect guns that overheat as they need to be allowed a few seconds to cool so the hives could catch up a bit. This really should only affect weapons without a cooldown. It probably won't have much of an effect except for camping vehicles

I do like the idea of vehicle based nanohive for resupplying and repairing both themselves and their teammates(both vehicle and infantry) as this would have a positive effect towards teamplay with tanks. I would give it the same or longer range as the supply depots.

I do find it rather silly that a dropship and a tank has unlimited ammunition.

However, using a simple nano hive that a typical merc carries to resupply a tank or a dropship is kind of silly as well given the limited amount of nanites in the equipment with respect to the size of the turrets. I suspect that the nano hives would only last for a VEEEERRY short time before they run out of nanites and pop.

Good points.

u r so biased lol

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

I'm Infantry so my view is leans towards infantry, but I do believe that vehicles having infinite is a bit unreasonable. Especially with very easy ways that they could be resupplied, i.e. nano hives, supply depots, and vehicle nano hive modules.

and we really need a dev/scientist to explain why they have unlimited to really drop this subject :P

Agreed Developer input would be nice.

Limited amo is a great idea, and a solution to supply depots getting destroyed by vehicles.

how about on board nanohives that have to be turned on like any other module and it uses so much power the tank is stationery until the reload is complete,

it would be cool to lay siege to a reloading tank and also just as fun to get your squad defending the tank while it refills ammo

However, i also feel finite ammo for vehicles is not good. It makes sense that they would have some kind of heavy internal nanohive for vehicles implemented, or if not that at lease stockpiles of ammo to last throughout the round. Railguns used inside of a planetary atmosphere cannot shoot as fast as space railguns due to physics, but they still shoot pretty damn fast so the ammo for them doesnt need to be that big. You could fit more than enough for a 20 minute engagement.

just from a effectiveness perspective, who builds a tank that has to be stationary in the heat of battle just so it can reload?

Sci-fi realism isn't appropriate in this discussion. All that matters is what's good for gameplay. They can make up any kind of justification as they go.

I believe Duct Tape technology would exist 10 thousand years in the future, hell it would so much better than the duct tape we have now.

Just look at the Minmatar. They have gotten the science of Duct tape down to an artform. Now back to the topic, I also agree that vehicles should have limited ammo. It would add a lot more tactics to the battlefield

• People with tanks do not support limited ammo but want some sort of ammo system.


• People that get killed by tanks support limited ammo.

I run a tank so I'm with the first one.

Killing a tank in BF3 is pathetically easier than it is in dust.

Even ships in eve have finite ammo. Nuff said

How is the ammo replenished?

You pay for it

So you just pay for it and the ammo magically replenishes in the ship? Cool.

you telling me what is and isnt appropriate in a discussion is just about as ridiculous as the post you just made. Im inclined to think there arent too many people on these forums who really understand what is good for Dust gameplay because they dont understand what Dust is trying to be.

ALSO, dont quote me in a way that ignores half my post where i say it doesnt matter what we say because CCP most likely will put in an ammo system like EVE so our opinions here dont matter.

I didn't want to comment on the rest of your post so I didn't quote it. Sorry if that offends you or whatever.

What is good for Dust gameplay is to have good gameplay. Putting limitations on gameplay over something as silly as sci-fi realism stuff is absurd. There's no reason a gameplay decision should be made exclusively because some made-up fiction suggests that it should be that way. So, justifying how the game should operate based on such grounds is not a sensible contribution to the discussion.

I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.

If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.

Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?

I think someone stole some of my ideas... :P

I agree, vehicles would start out with a large amount of ammo, even more possibly from skills, but having to resupply would take a while.

There could be modules allowing vehicles to be mobile supply depots, much like you could spec it for ground support, EWAR, black ops, or remote rep, you could spec it for resupply. Allowing a good dropship pilot to fly parallel to another dropship and keep up a constant supply of ammo, or an LAV to drive up to a squad of soldiers after an engagement and fill them up.

Basically what I had in mind, also it would make LAVs more relevant.

You have to buy it before you get in the ship

(The unprepared deserve to die)

In other words if you run out of ammo in EvE you in most cases die and lose your ship which should be the same in dust; waste ammo and die.
Next question is what amount of ammunition would be a reasonable amount for guns that miss 90% of the time (hence the spam with missiles et c.) until you'd have to go and restock for more ammunition.

Nobody runs out of ammo in EVE unless they are a literal idiot or have a severe lack of common sense, my Scorpion literally carries twenty thousand spare cruise missiles at all times, and those are damn big when it comes to ammunition.


Cargo bays are massive for warships, as you don't really need to carry all that much if your intent is to simply murder something senseless.

Regardless, since so many people are mentioning realism:

---

M3 Bradly:
Main
armament
25 mm M242 Chain Gun
1500 rounds (300 ready)

Dual TOW Anti-Tank Missile Launcher
12 rounds (2 in launcher)

Secondary
armament7.62 mm M240C machine gun (God only knows how many rounds.

---

M1 Abrams
Main
armament
105 mm L52 M68 rifled cannon (M1)
120 mm L44 M256 smoothbore cannon (M1A1, M1A2, M1A2SEP) with 42 rounds
Secondary
armament1 x .50-caliber (12.7 mm) M2HB heavy machine gun with 900 rounds
2 x 7.62 mm (.308) M240 machine guns with 8,800 rounds (1 pintle-mounted, 1 coaxial)

---

Vehicles carry a kitten amount of ordnance.

Killing a tank in BF3 is pathetically easier than it is in dust.

I want RE's to be like C4 on BF3. Then I will be a happy Scout who is sick of being surrounded b Surya/Sagaris who meets one in the face with little to no capability to do nout.

I think this is a reasonable topic to be brought up. Ships in Eve have to have ammo (missiles, projectiles, etc) before they can go into battle with the exception of lasers. Lasers use crystals to determine damage type, range among other factors. Tanks shouldn't be an exception. If I know CCP well enough from experience I would be willing to bet they are going to be implementing something like this. Maybe not right away but in time.

However, since this is a shooter I could be wrong but I doubt it especially since some of the battles will be taking place on sovereign territories for very valuable resources. Resources that corps are willing to go to any length to protect them. And I do mean any length. Eve low and null sec as well as wormhole space is very competitive.

So that being said; I don't see why CCP will not implement the same for tanks as they do for ships in Eve. Tanks energy turrets use capacitor energy. These capacitors need to be recharged if depleted unless the power source can keep up.

Missiles/rockets should be limited. The tank does not have an infinite space to store them in. So it stands to reason that they should run out. If the tank survives long enough to resupply then more power to them but this should also be a factor to be taken into consideration since resupply is part of battle and a strategic part at that. Real life battles have been lost to the lack of supply. This should be no exception since the Eve universe is based on realism.

a proto large turret costs about 100k isk while only getting a slight damage boost 1.5 damage max so your telling me that somewhere in that extra 99k isk we are not paying for a bunch of nanohives to be in it giving it as much ammo as it needs?whats a proto nanohive worth 20k-30k? each proto nanohive lets you throw down 2 right and gives you about 400 bullets each before going bye bye. personally I just think the best way to implement finite ammo would be tellin the dudes with AR's to get a swarm launcher or a forge gun that insanely OP tank that 1 shots you and takes "no skill" goes down very quickly.....I don't think even Noc's tank could last 10 seconds if 3 forge gunners ambushed him

This isn't about AV its about the fact that EVE ships don't have infinite ammo yet these small vehicles do... how does that make sense? Especially since next patch nanohives will have an ammo replenishment limit (which they currently don't).