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Yosef Autaal
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
19
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Posted - 2012.07.31 14:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
Nanohives while brilliantly smart and great are small so can create simple objects like the small ammunition the handheld weaponry use while tank ammo is a bit larger and more complex so this IMO is why tanks and spaceships in eve don't have nano hive technology for ammo (eve artillery ships have 1800mm cannons just to put sense of size those bad boys shoot) they can do small simple items not large complex things.
Vehicles shouldn't have infinite ammo it doesn't fit in with the rest of the world, I would go as far as saying the installations shouldn't have infinite ammo as well just huge stock piles of the stuff and eventually run out if not resupplied some how. |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:54:00 -
[122] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Again, I just can't see a justification for infinite ammo for vehicles, as it clashes with all established backstory of the universe. I mean, we're talking about (soon to be) 1.2 million ISK HAVs. If those can equip modules that provide an infinite ammo count, why the hell wouldn't all the infinitely wealthy capsuleers have this equipment on every ship? It just doesn't make any sense. or this is a science for it but why do nanohives give me unlimited ammo? they have nothing like nanohives in eve? There are not, and Nanohives in Dust have a limited duration. The idea behind them is that the Nanites assemble themselves into the required material to be used by the weapon, so that the device runs out of them eventually. Naturally the amount of them necessary would increase exponentially with the size of the ammunition involved, at which point the device gets large and unwieldy enough that it starts to take up space you could be using for ammo storage, and becomes heavier to boot. You'll notice that our current Nanohives don't have any effect on tanks - not even repairs - due to what I would assume is a lack of sufficient nanites to make them functional in that capacity.
or ur reading wayyy too deep into it i think thats a gameplay flaw the science is questionable since i can spawn rockets from mine for my swarm if they didnt have infinite ammo they would affect it |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:56:00 -
[123] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Again, I just can't see a justification for infinite ammo for vehicles, as it clashes with all established backstory of the universe. I mean, we're talking about (soon to be) 1.2 million ISK HAVs. If those can equip modules that provide an infinite ammo count, why the hell wouldn't all the infinitely wealthy capsuleers have this equipment on every ship? It just doesn't make any sense. or this is a science for it but why do nanohives give me unlimited ammo? they have nothing like nanohives in eve? There are not, and Nanohives in Dust have a limited duration. The idea behind them is that the Nanites assemble themselves into the required material to be used by the weapon, so that the device runs out of them eventually. Naturally the amount of them necessary would increase exponentially with the size of the ammunition involved, at which point the device gets large and unwieldy enough that it starts to take up space you could be using for ammo storage, and becomes heavier to boot. You'll notice that our current Nanohives don't have any effect on tanks - not even repairs - due to what I would assume is a lack of sufficient nanites to make them functional in that capacity. or ur reading wayyy too deep into it i think thats a gameplay flaw the science is questionable since i can spawn rockets from mine for my swarm if they didnt have infinite ammo they would affect it
What???? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Again, I just can't see a justification for infinite ammo for vehicles, as it clashes with all established backstory of the universe. I mean, we're talking about (soon to be) 1.2 million ISK HAVs. If those can equip modules that provide an infinite ammo count, why the hell wouldn't all the infinitely wealthy capsuleers have this equipment on every ship? It just doesn't make any sense. or this is a science for it but why do nanohives give me unlimited ammo? they have nothing like nanohives in eve? There are not, and Nanohives in Dust have a limited duration. The idea behind them is that the Nanites assemble themselves into the required material to be used by the weapon, so that the device runs out of them eventually. Naturally the amount of them necessary would increase exponentially with the size of the ammunition involved, at which point the device gets large and unwieldy enough that it starts to take up space you could be using for ammo storage, and becomes heavier to boot. You'll notice that our current Nanohives don't have any effect on tanks - not even repairs - due to what I would assume is a lack of sufficient nanites to make them functional in that capacity. or ur reading wayyy too deep into it i think thats a gameplay flaw the science is questionable since i can spawn rockets from mine for my swarm if they didnt have infinite ammo they would affect it What???? I'm with you. I didn't get that at all. |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:01:00 -
[125] - Quote
Yosef Autaal wrote:Nanohives while brilliantly smart and great are small so can create simple objects like the small ammunition the handheld weaponry use while tank ammo is a bit larger and more complex so this IMO is why tanks and spaceships in eve don't have nano hive technology for ammo (eve artillery ships have 1800mm cannons just to put sense of size those bad boys shoot) they can do small simple items not large complex things.
Vehicles shouldn't have infinite ammo it doesn't fit in with the rest of the world, I would go as far as saying the installations shouldn't have infinite ammo as well just huge stock piles of the stuff and eventually run out if not resupplied some how.
maybe if they made the game more complex we would have workers resupplying the installations and tanks but i see that as being too much of an overhaul of a simple shooter the management with all those extra men would be extremly difficult to include now so nanohives inside them is a simple solution for any questions im betting or they plan on changing it who knows but i doubt it thats why i dont argue to have most of this stuff |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:03:00 -
[126] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Again, I just can't see a justification for infinite ammo for vehicles, as it clashes with all established backstory of the universe. I mean, we're talking about (soon to be) 1.2 million ISK HAVs. If those can equip modules that provide an infinite ammo count, why the hell wouldn't all the infinitely wealthy capsuleers have this equipment on every ship? It just doesn't make any sense. or this is a science for it but why do nanohives give me unlimited ammo? they have nothing like nanohives in eve? There are not, and Nanohives in Dust have a limited duration. The idea behind them is that the Nanites assemble themselves into the required material to be used by the weapon, so that the device runs out of them eventually. Naturally the amount of them necessary would increase exponentially with the size of the ammunition involved, at which point the device gets large and unwieldy enough that it starts to take up space you could be using for ammo storage, and becomes heavier to boot. You'll notice that our current Nanohives don't have any effect on tanks - not even repairs - due to what I would assume is a lack of sufficient nanites to make them functional in that capacity. or ur reading wayyy too deep into it i think thats a gameplay flaw the science is questionable since i can spawn rockets from mine for my swarm if they didnt have infinite ammo they would affect it What????
my swarm launcher rockets r the size of the missles the tanks and dropships shoot off and i can resupply them with nanohives get it now? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:06:00 -
[127] - Quote
Actually, if you look, the Swarm Launcher missiles are -far- smaller than the vehicle launched rockets. They do the high damage they do by virtue of shaped charges in their warheads, I would assume. That also explains why their missiles do almost no splash damage. |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:18:00 -
[128] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Actually, if you look, the Swarm Launcher missiles are -far- smaller than the vehicle launched rockets. They do the high damage they do by virtue of shaped charges in their warheads, I would assume. That also explains why their missiles do almost no splash damage.
i refer u to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBC1Qob27sM
iron man ;) thats a swarm launcher missle but it doesnt look as bulky beforehand and shoots way less mini ones but basic idea but these focus outward for infantry and ours focus on single targets
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STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:19:00 -
[129] - Quote
Are saying CCP based their missile mechanics on Ironman? |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:21:00 -
[130] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:Are saying CCP based their missile mechanics on Ironman?
yes lol although the ironman one is way more awesome from a fantasy perspective
EDIT: the damage that would be caused looks more like the orbital strikes would cause it though |
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Stile451
Red Star.
76
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Posted - 2012.07.31 15:27:00 -
[131] - Quote
People blow up the supply depots and crus because it gets them sp, not because they have infinite ammo.
I don't mind vehicles having unlimited ammo as it's not really a problem(a landed gunships missile launcher is a bit of a nuisance though - happens far less now from what I've seen).
If you must nerf vehicle ammo then maybe set the vehicles internal nanohive to resupply at 50% constant fire rate with a fair amount of ammo capacity(would have to figure the right amount out). This shouldn't affect guns that overheat as they need to be allowed a few seconds to cool so the hives could catch up a bit. This really should only affect weapons without a cooldown. It probably won't have much of an effect except for camping vehicles
I do like the idea of vehicle based nanohive for resupplying and repairing both themselves and their teammates(both vehicle and infantry) as this would have a positive effect towards teamplay with tanks. I would give it the same or longer range as the supply depots. |
Raynor Ragna
266
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:44:00 -
[132] - Quote
Actually I've always assumed that Ammo for vehicles was always in the works but not yet implemented. Chances are that EVERYTHING in dust514 will be playermade (minus Aur crap) |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:46:00 -
[133] - Quote
Stile451 wrote:People blow up the supply depots and crus because it gets them sp, not because they have infinite ammo.
I don't mind vehicles having unlimited ammo as it's not really a problem(a landed gunships missile launcher is a bit of a nuisance though - happens far less now from what I've seen).
If you must nerf vehicle ammo then maybe set the vehicles internal nanohive to resupply at 50% constant fire rate with a fair amount of ammo capacity(would have to figure the right amount out). This shouldn't affect guns that overheat as they need to be allowed a few seconds to cool so the hives could catch up a bit. This really should only affect weapons without a cooldown. It probably won't have much of an effect except for camping vehicles
I do like the idea of vehicle based nanohive for resupplying and repairing both themselves and their teammates(both vehicle and infantry) as this would have a positive effect towards teamplay with tanks. I would give it the same or longer range as the supply depots. A mobile ammunition resupply system for vehicles is a great idea, but having something like an HAV able to carry one of it's own and still be an effective fighting force just seems completely counter to logic. I think such a module would be a perfect addition to LLVs to increase their relevance. |
Maken Tosch
263
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:22:00 -
[134] - Quote
I do find it rather silly that a dropship and a tank has unlimited ammunition.
However, using a simple nano hive that a typical merc carries to resupply a tank or a dropship is kind of silly as well given the limited amount of nanites in the equipment with respect to the size of the turrets. I suspect that the nano hives would only last for a VEEEERRY short time before they run out of nanites and pop. |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:26:00 -
[135] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:I do find it rather silly that a dropship and a tank has unlimited ammunition.
However, using a simple nano hive that a typical merc carries to resupply a tank or a dropship is kind of silly as well given the limited amount of nanites in the equipment with respect to the size of the turrets. I suspect that the nano hives would only last for a VEEEERRY short time before they run out of nanites and pop.
Good points. |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:32:00 -
[136] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I do find it rather silly that a dropship and a tank has unlimited ammunition.
However, using a simple nano hive that a typical merc carries to resupply a tank or a dropship is kind of silly as well given the limited amount of nanites in the equipment with respect to the size of the turrets. I suspect that the nano hives would only last for a VEEEERRY short time before they run out of nanites and pop. Good points.
u r so biased lol |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:40:00 -
[137] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I do find it rather silly that a dropship and a tank has unlimited ammunition.
However, using a simple nano hive that a typical merc carries to resupply a tank or a dropship is kind of silly as well given the limited amount of nanites in the equipment with respect to the size of the turrets. I suspect that the nano hives would only last for a VEEEERRY short time before they run out of nanites and pop. Good points. u r so biased lol
I'm Infantry so my view is leans towards infantry, but I do believe that vehicles having infinite is a bit unreasonable. Especially with very easy ways that they could be resupplied, i.e. nano hives, supply depots, and vehicle nano hive modules.
Edit: I admit I'm biased my preferred method of play is an AR or SMG, your preferred play style wouldn't happen to be vehicle based would it? |
Adaris Manpher
70
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:47:00 -
[138] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:I prefer to play on the ground and use an AR or SMG and I have a finite amount of ammo, however vehicles have infinite ammo. Now I believe that vehicles should have to resupply just like the rest of us. They should be equipped with a reasonable amount of ammo and if it starts to run low they should have to either go to a supply depot, ask a teammate for a nano hive, jump out throw their own nano hive, or better yet have a vehicle ammo supply module.
If vehicles have an ammo supply module they could be mobile nano hives that could resupply themselves as well as teammates. Also it would give them a choice to make in terms of sacrificing a bit stopping power or defense in order to help out the team a bit more.
Go head say I'm QQing, but I'm trying to throw out a reasonable idea that could be implemented. So what do you guys think?
They most likely will they do in EVE they will also most likely have different ammo types as well this being CCP i would not doubt it a bit. They might even implement fuel like they do on EVE as well.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Foxhound/ ZionTCD |
KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:54:00 -
[139] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:I do find it rather silly that a dropship and a tank has unlimited ammunition.
However, using a simple nano hive that a typical merc carries to resupply a tank or a dropship is kind of silly as well given the limited amount of nanites in the equipment with respect to the size of the turrets. I suspect that the nano hives would only last for a VEEEERRY short time before they run out of nanites and pop. Good points. u r so biased lol I'm Infantry so my view is leans towards infantry, but I do believe that vehicles having infinite is a bit unreasonable. Especially with very easy ways that they could be resupplied, i.e. nano hives, supply depots, and vehicle nano hive modules.
im infantry too but i see that being way more work to design it and change soo many things with the build i dont see it as a priority to make that more realistic (assuming the tank can survive for a few hours) this causes more work and less play and fellow shooters wont find it productive the absolute worst thing i see possible is to increase reload time these maps r no where close to big enough to include a warehouse to include the extra ammo as far as gameplay goes it is fine but i understand why ud want it more realistic
and we really need a dev/scientist to explain why they have unlimited to really drop this subject :P |
STB-stlcarlos989 EV
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:55:00 -
[140] - Quote
KingBlade82 wrote:and we really need a dev/scientist to explain why they have unlimited to really drop this subject :P
Agreed Developer input would be nice. |
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KingBlade82
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 18:57:00 -
[141] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote:KingBlade82 wrote:and we really need a dev/scientist to explain why they have unlimited to really drop this subject :P Agreed Developer input would be nice.
ik they have seen this thread they just skip over it lol |
pjster long
Doomheim
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:00:00 -
[142] - Quote
From Costa Rica wrote:Limited amo is a great idea, and a solution to supply depots getting destroyed by vehicles.
what about having to buy more ammo? |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:10:00 -
[143] - Quote
Alright, im awake again.
Ahem......
I am of the opinion that CCP will add finite ammo for everything in game. Its just how they do things. Its just not implemented yet because the market/industrial system is not in-game.
However, i also feel finite ammo for vehicles is not good. It makes sense that they would have some kind of heavy internal nanohive for vehicles implemented, or if not that at lease stockpiles of ammo to last throughout the round. Railguns used inside of a planetary atmosphere cannot shoot as fast as space railguns due to physics, but they still shoot pretty damn fast so the ammo for them doesnt need to be that big. You could fit more than enough for a 20 minute engagement.
Whether or not we like it either way, give some credit to CCP. There is no way they dont already know EXACTLY what they are going to do with this. In fact, their silence leads me to believe they passed over this because things are already in the workings.
Have faith my friends. Regardless of what we like or dont like, CCP is gonna do what CCP does. |
Drake Tsuka
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:20:00 -
[144] - Quote
how about on board nanohives that have to be turned on like any other module and it uses so much power the tank is stationery until the reload is complete,
it would be cool to lay siege to a reloading tank and also just as fun to get your squad defending the tank while it refills ammo |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:23:00 -
[145] - Quote
Drake Tsuka wrote:how about on board nanohives that have to be turned on like any other module and it uses so much power the tank is stationery until the reload is complete,
it would be cool to lay siege to a reloading tank and also just as fun to get your squad defending the tank while it refills ammo
just from a effectiveness perspective, who builds a tank that has to be stationary in the heat of battle just so it can reload? |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:33:00 -
[146] - Quote
Yep, I totally agree with the OP. Ammo limitations allow for some balance changes too, like making large railguns have relatively limited ammo so that people aren't inclined to spam infantry with it. Ammo for vehicles would be a really good change.
Lurchasaurus wrote:However, i also feel finite ammo for vehicles is not good. It makes sense that they would have some kind of heavy internal nanohive for vehicles implemented, or if not that at lease stockpiles of ammo to last throughout the round. Railguns used inside of a planetary atmosphere cannot shoot as fast as space railguns due to physics, but they still shoot pretty damn fast so the ammo for them doesnt need to be that big. You could fit more than enough for a 20 minute engagement.
Sci-fi realism isn't appropriate in this discussion. All that matters is what's good for gameplay. They can make up any kind of justification as they go. |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:36:00 -
[147] - Quote
Lurchasaurus wrote:Drake Tsuka wrote:how about on board nanohives that have to be turned on like any other module and it uses so much power the tank is stationery until the reload is complete,
it would be cool to lay siege to a reloading tank and also just as fun to get your squad defending the tank while it refills ammo just from a effectiveness perspective, who builds a tank that has to be stationary in the heat of battle just so it can reload?
A dead one. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:38:00 -
[148] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Sci-fi realism isn't appropriate in this discussion. All that matters is what's good for gameplay. They can make up any kind of justification as they go.
you telling me what is and isnt appropriate in a discussion is just about as ridiculous as the post you just made. Im inclined to think there arent too many people on these forums who really understand what is good for Dust gameplay because they dont understand what Dust is trying to be.
ALSO, dont quote me in a way that ignores half my post where i say it doesnt matter what we say because CCP most likely will put in an ammo system like EVE so our opinions here dont matter. |
Kay High
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:13:00 -
[149] - Quote
STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote: I believe Duct Tape technology would exist 10 thousand years in the future, hell it would so much better than the duct tape we have now.
Just look at the Minmatar. They have gotten the science of Duct tape down to an artform. Now back to the topic, I also agree that vehicles should have limited ammo. It would add a lot more tactics to the battlefield |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
808
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:17:00 -
[150] - Quote
Kay High wrote:STB-stlcarlos989 EV wrote: I believe Duct Tape technology would exist 10 thousand years in the future, hell it would so much better than the duct tape we have now.
Just look at the Minmatar. They have gotten the science of Duct tape down to an artform. Now back to the topic, I also agree that vehicles should have limited ammo. It would add a lot more tactics to the battlefield
yeah, but proto thinks that anything adding tactics to the game is stupid and will kill the game....
edit: sorry proto for the low blow......your not even in this thread.....
point had to be made tho. |
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