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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Moorian Flav 651	Posted - 2017.05.17 15:21:00 - [61] - Quote LOL KILLZ wrote: A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? That's a really good question. I assumed Stamina would remain separate (especially if there are speed modules as speculated earlier in thread) but keeping track of shield/armor, bullets in clip, deployables, stamina, and now capacitor is quite a bit to keep track of while getting shot at. Then again, Nova is supposed to be more like EVE so that may be exactly what CCP is going for with Nova. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 2225	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:17:00 - [62] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Should PG and CPU be combined into one? Should we play f CallOfDuty? No, thanxx. Please support fair play!
Moorian Flav 651	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:24:00 - [63] - Quote John Psi wrote: Should we play f CallOfDuty? REALLY?!? CPU/PG is all that kept DUST from being CoD? I don't know much about CoD as never been a fan but I severely doubt that. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9266	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:29:00 - [64] - Quote I almost feel like people are not really reading and assuming I'm the one suggesting we combine them...lol EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 2225	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:33:00 - [65] - Quote Moorian Flav wrote: CPU/PG is all that kept DUST from being CoD? No, and I see no reason to refuse these pleasant differences. It does not matter, it's about one of the differences or all of them. I want to see results of quality work, not simplification. Otherwise, I just will not pay. Please support fair play!
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 2225	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:38:00 - [66] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I almost feel like people are not really reading and assuming I'm the one suggesting we combine them...lol No, I know that you are against this sh!t. Dont worry and thanxx 4 dat topic. Please support fair play!
byte modal 1305	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:39:00 - [67] - Quote Moorian Flav wrote: LOL KILLZ wrote: A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? That's a really good question. I assumed Stamina would remain separate (especially if there are speed modules as speculated earlier in thread) but keeping track of shield/armor, bullets in clip, deployables, stamina, and now capacitor is quite a bit to keep track of while getting shot at. Then again, Nova is supposed to be more like EVE so that may be exactly what CCP is going for with Nova. I guess it depends on how you come at it. I'll argue some assumptions because there's no way to know without... knowing. Ya know? ;) Reading that line "... keeping track of shield/armor, bullets in clip, deployables, stamina, and now capacitor is quite a bit to keep track of while getting shot at." made me twitch. I know I'm running way down a tangent here, but that's OK. What else is there to do? Assuming the idea of cap and stam are involved, would this not complicate immediate user interactions? I mean, the argument could be asked that if such things must exist, would it be easier to manage such meta during pre-combat fitting stages using PG/CPU to determine fitting and stamina levels before going into batter, as opposed to tracking consumables, stamina, and cap (or whatever) during a shootout? I think that all goes back to some of Clone D's questions earlier as to what the intent is with NOVA combat: are we run&gun or are we holding ground for a longer engagement? Either way (or really any* way, because we really have no clue here as to one way or another of an infinite list of others) it ends up, user interface is going to have to be better. Whether it's for back-end planning of specs and load outs in a fashion we are used to with PG/CPU (however it works out in the end), or for the HUD design to be able to still manage stam, cap, and everything else during combat. If the design is to be more like EvE, I'd still argue to keep PG/CPU, to at least build on the established logic from DUST, and to keep in line with EvE standards. Selfish, maybe, but I really loved that aspect of DUST as compared to other shooters. Now if I wanted to just be a ** then I might suggest consolidating shields and armor. Put them both in the same slots, and remove the weaponry specialization to counter shield or armor. Make it so that bullets just do damage. Let everything else be cosmetic. But I'm just being jerky for the hell of it. But there is a real point in that silliness, i.e., where is the line drawn, and how far are we willing to cross it? And to what end? UGH I hate not knowing a damned thing!!** EDIT: *I can't find the post I was referring to earlier in this thread. It might have been by Dust Fiend. kitten bacon taco (nom)
byte modal 1305	Posted - 2017.05.17 16:41:00 - [68] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I almost feel like people are not really reading and assuming I'm the one suggesting we combine them...lol lol. yeah =\ you might need to copy over your first response to the OP... just to reiterate ;) kitten bacon taco (nom)
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 1445	Posted - 2017.05.17 18:27:00 - [69] - Quote byte modal wrote: LOL KILLZ wrote: Rattati, one aspect of Eve that really surprised me and quite honestly impressed me was the salvage system. Could it be possible to incorporate a salvager module in Nova? It would tick me off in Dust when I would go try to revive a fallen comrade that pressed X only for that guy to respawn and leave me out in the open to possibly get shot or Die just to help him out. Maybe we can shoot the corpse with nanites and repurpose the suits A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? Because that was like the only selling point of the Amarr scout, you could run a long time. Good point: Cap vs. Stamina. What's the difference? Mostly, I'm just fishing for more context in anything that I can get. cough inquiring minds cough In Eve your Cap gets used by your modules that are active and dictates how long you can run active modules before you are forced to shut them down and recharge. A CAP would bring balance to Logistic spams and the dreaded Cloak Scout amongst other things. Stamina can be kept separate Your friendly Pub match logi
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8128	Posted - 2017.05.17 19:09:00 - [70] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Beside combining PG/CPU, do even more and add stacking penalty to fitting requirements, so that fitting another 'tanking' module cost more than previous one, so that running around with all slots being: shield extensions or armor plates is imposible/or very resorce consuming. I think things like Armour Plate should give a percentage increase in health rather than a fixed value. 1) Stacking penalties applied to anything with a % increase, and did not apply to Armor because it was fixed value. 2) Brick Tanked Scouts competed with Assault suits because Armor gave the same fixed armor increase to a Scout suit as it did to a Heavy suit. With a % increase, the increase would be based on the original health of the suit, so it would be harder to tank the light fast suits and easier to tank the slow heavy suits. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1447	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:13:00 - [71] - Quote byte modal wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Quote: If you haven't read the article yet (http://biomassed.net/2017/05/12/project-nova-ongoing-updates/) one of the considerations of the design team for Nova is to possibly combine PG and CPU into a single fitting resource. So instead of balancing two pools that your modules and whatnot consume, it would just be a single pool that modules and weapons draw from. I feel this is actually a pretty important discussion to have and I think people should really be vocal about their feedback regarding this potential change. What do you think? Will combining these resources help to simplify things? Or will it take away a lot of the depth that Dust and EVEs systems offered? I'm fundamentally against anything that moves further away from EvE. The fact you're even considering something like this means Nova is moving generally away from EvE. Sorry, not interested. Yeah, I had a near similar reaction at first but I posted my thoughts and waited for further replies. I thought the first page was good insight and broke a few of my assumptions. If you haven't already, please do read on a bit more. Also, I was wondering when you might pop in ;) <3 Ha! I'm always lurking. I may not post much because the conversation maybe isn't going in a direction I can add value. Something like this, though, I had to say something. If anything, we should be ADDING, not subtracting. We need a capacitor for instance. In EvE the capacitor is used to build up a charge, powered by the PG, which can be released in a single pulse of energy, exactly as you would expect for energy, plasma or hybrid weapons, but not necessary at all for artillery or explosive weapons. This would really mix up the suits and the fittings and would make the whole thing much more interesting. It would also almost certainly preclude using certain weapons on certain suits, if there was not enough capacitor on the suits for them. CPU also should always be a separate resource, unless you're going to put a CPU module on a suit, powered from the PG, which is there to supply CPU to weapons and modules that need it (presumably some won't). I think generally though, everything on a powered suit is going to need CPU, at least for control purposes. So PG and CPU would be needed for every module or weapon, and Cap would be needed for firing energy charges of one form or another, bursts of speed, etc. Condensing all these resources into one would be ludicrous.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1880	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:38:00 - [72] - Quote Moorian Flav wrote: earlier in the thread I suggested Civ and T1 suits use power core system while T2 and T3 suits use CPU/PG. That system would accomplish both good NPE while also being true to EVE. That just means twice the effort to develop and maintain 1 aspect of the game, while also meaning the player base will have to learn and setup both as well. Seems like a waste. LOL KILLZ wrote: Rattati, one aspect of Eve that really surprised me and quite honestly impressed me was the salvage system. Could it be possible to incorporate a salvager module in Nova? It would tick me off in Dust when I would go try to revive a fallen comrade that pressed X only for that guy to respawn and leave me out in the open to possibly get shot or Die just to help him out. Maybe we can shoot the corpse with nanites and repurpose the suits More importantly, can we bleed out blueberrys and steal their ****? "help I need a medic" "Hurry up and die you skraaaab, I want your suit!"
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1448	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:41:00 - [73] - Quote byte modal wrote: On my phone so will try to be quick. You bring up a great point: NPE. More specifically, the efficiency of educating new players---highlighting connections between this or that. I'd go a step farther to point out how awkward the graphic user interface was. Fonts were small. PG and CPU meters were unclear as to wtf they were and how they either affected loadouts or WERE AFFECTED BY loadouts and skill points. I think a combination of lack of education and generally poor interface design is where the weak link rests. Fix those two elements, and I wonder if the understanding of PG/CPU becomes easier... as would many things, I imagine. Is the idea of capacitor still floating around? With regard to NPE, why not have simplified suits with limited everything and simplified weapons and modules that did not have the necessity for balancing PG, CPU (and Cap) and were therefore easy to fit for players who knew nothing about such things, but as soon as they wanted to get into some more serious fittings, they needed to progress onto suits, weapons and modules that were racially varied in all these aspects. That would make the whole thing easy for the NPE and satisfyingly complex for the more experienced player.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1448	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:46:00 - [74] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: In regards to complexity... One resource pool is very common in games with any sort of loadout system so people will probably grasp that pretty easily. Two fitting resources is really not that much more complicated but it can be confusing if not explained properly, which is why people struggled with it in Dust. So my question is, was the system itself flawed? Or was the way it was taught to you flawed? I'm kinda feeling it was the second. So is it worth dropping a lot of fitting depth for the sake of a easier to digest NPE? I don't think so. I'd rather they keep the two resource system and just properly explain it this time. Perhaps I don't know enough about the system myself. Why do we need a CPU/PG system? Is it also possible that the system was not innately flawed, but that it was simply poorly executed? I don't think that I could be confident in any points I make if there is something fundamental I am missing. Why do we need CPU/PG/Cap? Because different racial fittings and weapons need different mixes of them. The only reason you would want to go with a single resource is if you wanted to go to a single faction for all suits, weapons and modules, which is exactly what I feel is the point here and which I'm definitely against.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17154	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:49:00 - [75] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Beside combining PG/CPU, do even more and add stacking penalty to fitting requirements, so that fitting another 'tanking' module cost more than previous one, so that running around with all slots being: shield extensions or armor plates is imposible/or very resorce consuming. I think things like Armour Plate should give a percentage increase in health rather than a fixed value. 1) Stacking penalties applied to anything with a % increase, and did not apply to Armor because it was fixed value. 2) Brick Tanked Scouts competed with Assault suits because Armor gave the same fixed armor increase to a Scout suit as it did to a Heavy suit. With a % increase, the increase would be based on the original health of the suit, so it would be harder to tank the light fast suits and easier to tank the slow heavy suits. I always thought this should be the case as well. It also eliminated Assaults having the HP of Heavies etc. Same should go for other mods I think. It would work well for whatever EWAR, Speed, and Bandwidth corollaries there are. That way you could differentiate suits/races/roles will still allowing some flexibility. It also reduces roles bleeding over one another as happened so many times in Dust. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1448	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:50:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I do like the fact that we will have something resembling a capacitor (operating like a mana bar in a fantasy game, for those not familiar with the capacitor in EVE.) Maybe there will be a fitting trade off over the resources it requires to fit, versus how much capacitor it will use to activate? This is something we are heavily looking at, we have a few design pillars that we are working from and the top one of those is Balance through Quantity, Capacitor and Cooldowns Universal Equipment [vs Class-Only] Universal Slots [vs Offensive/Defensive, vs High/Low, vs Assault/Logistics, vs Active/Passive] At most one Resource, maybe zero Resource [vs PG/CPU] Earned Equipment [vs bought, vs looted] What this means is we can allow a lot of versatility, and balance through "availability". Power can be increased or decreased by the Cap cost/recharge rate instead of pre-battle configurations of PG/CPU. Can I "use" it vs can I "fit" it ALL of these options should be available for simplified fittings for use in NPE. Once a player wishes to advance past NPE, they should have to start thinking about balancing resources.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1448	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:56:00 - [77] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Sigh They're finally considering capacitors...and it's for dropsuits Wtf. One Eyed King wrote: From reading through the thread, it seems to me that some people are equating complexity with depth. I don't think that is necessarily true. Some of the best games, video and otherwise are fairly simple, yet still have depth. My problem with complexity for complexity's sake is that the more moving parts there are, the more various interactions there are, the more room for glitches and potential abuses that can occur. If there is a legit reason for having more complex parts, and they substantially add to the depth, fun, and strategy for the game, I am all for it. But merely having complexity for its own sake is just asking to revisit the worst parts of Dust; the brokenness, glitchiness, and imbalance that ruined an otherwise amazing game. They want to add real time resource management to ground based run and gun gameplay, so this argument sort of falls flat on its face lol. Capacitors should be used for dropsuits and vehicles alike. It's not whether it's a dropsuit or a vehicle that matters, but what the capacitor is used for which should always be a store of energy to be released in a single charge, for instance, for firing energy weapons.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1880	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:57:00 - [78] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Why do we need CPU/PG/Cap? Because different racial fittings and weapons need different mixes of them. The only reason you would want to go with a single resource is if you wanted to go to a single faction for all suits, weapons and modules, which is exactly what I feel is the point here and which I'm definitely against. Different racial and suit bonuses for different modules would surely be enough reason to build a variety of setups?
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17154	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:58:00 - [79] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: In regards to complexity... One resource pool is very common in games with any sort of loadout system so people will probably grasp that pretty easily. Two fitting resources is really not that much more complicated but it can be confusing if not explained properly, which is why people struggled with it in Dust. So my question is, was the system itself flawed? Or was the way it was taught to you flawed? I'm kinda feeling it was the second. So is it worth dropping a lot of fitting depth for the sake of a easier to digest NPE? I don't think so. I'd rather they keep the two resource system and just properly explain it this time. Perhaps I don't know enough about the system myself. Why do we need a CPU/PG system? Is it also possible that the system was not innately flawed, but that it was simply poorly executed? I don't think that I could be confident in any points I make if there is something fundamental I am missing. Why do we need CPU/PG/Cap? Because different racial fittings and weapons need different mixes of them. The only reason you would want to go with a single resource is if you wanted to go to a single faction for all suits, weapons and modules, which is exactly what I feel is the point here and which I'm definitely against. I think for the sake of this discussion, we have been treating CPU/PG separately from Cap, given Pokey's insistence that Capacitors are a separate topic, and Rattati's statement that suggested they are being used, in addition to the single resource that replaces CPU/PG. I don't think the conclusion that all suits will be one faction automatically follows CPU/PG becoming one resource. If, hypothetically speaking, having just one resource instead of two somehow DID mean that there was only a single faction for all suits, I would categorically oppose the change. I don't think anyone wants a shallow game. I just think that those of us who are OK with the change believe that there are other means of differentiation than CPU/PG. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Nomex Gallatin Direct Action Resources Rise Of Legion. 181	Posted - 2017.05.17 22:58:00 - [80] - Quote I will take what I can get, but I am with Fox on this one, the PG and CPU made fitting an art. If I had my druthers, I wouldn't change that. I liked it in Eve Online, and I thought it was fitting (pun intended) for Dust 514. GÇ£GÇª shatter the enemy and then the terrain will fall into your hands by itself.GÇ¥ - General Heinz Gaedke

Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1448	Posted - 2017.05.17 23:04:00 - [81] - Quote byte modal wrote: LOL KILLZ wrote: Rattati, one aspect of Eve that really surprised me and quite honestly impressed me was the salvage system. Could it be possible to incorporate a salvager module in Nova? It would tick me off in Dust when I would go try to revive a fallen comrade that pressed X only for that guy to respawn and leave me out in the open to possibly get shot or Die just to help him out. Maybe we can shoot the corpse with nanites and repurpose the suits A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? Because that was like the only selling point of the Amarr scout, you could run a long time. Good point: Cap vs. Stamina. What's the difference? Mostly, I'm just fishing for more context in anything that I can get. cough inquiring minds cough There's a BIG difference. Cap is for sudden bursts of something, like firing a weapon, bursts of speed, boosting shields, etc. Stamina is about staying power, and therefore is more about being able to keep going for longer. Perhaps the capacitor could be used for both? But the uses would be different - bursts of energy expended from the capacitor would instantly lower its level by that amount, where stamina would require a continuous drain which could end up depleting the capacitor altogether if not managed.
DUST Fiend 19158	Posted - 2017.05.17 23:07:00 - [82] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Capacitors should be used for dropsuits and vehicles alike. It's not whether it's a dropsuit or a vehicle that matters, but what the capacitor is used for which should always be a store of energy to be released in a single charge, for instance, for firing energy weapons. Im not necessarily arguing for or against the idea, just noting the frustration of having a mechanic pilots asked for for years only just now being considered now that vehicles are no more. I really shouldnt be surpised at this point. It also seems odd for them to say theyre looking to simplify and streamline things like using a single resource while simultaneously considering something that will make noobs rage when they cant track all their resources mid firefight. I guess Im struggling to see what direction NOVA is trying to head in. Rage flavored bitter berry
MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1151	Posted - 2017.05.18 02:44:00 - [83] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Capacitors should be used for dropsuits and vehicles alike. It's not whether it's a dropsuit or a vehicle that matters, but what the capacitor is used for which should always be a store of energy to be released in a single charge, for instance, for firing energy weapons. Im not necessarily arguing for or against the idea, just noting the frustration of having a mechanic pilots asked for for years only just now being considered now that vehicles are no more. I really shouldnt be surpised at this point. It also seems odd for them to say theyre looking to simplify and streamline things like using a single resource while simultaneously considering something that will make noobs rage when they cant track all their resources mid firefight. I guess Im struggling to see what direction NOVA is trying to head in. Brick wall.
DeadlyAztec11 10149	Posted - 2017.05.18 03:16:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Draxus Prime wrote: like get x amount of ammo resupplied you would unlock a better nanonhive? not set in stone, but think battlefield class progression, plus sharing items between classes once they are unlocked. The more classes played, the bigger the inventory. This is in regards to basic class gear such as repair tool for logis, cloak field for infiltrators etc That doesn't sound very fun. For example, if I play as a scout I would have to dedicate X amount of time to playing logi even though I'm not interested in logistics outside of that role. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2746	Posted - 2017.05.18 03:24:00 - [85] - Quote I'm all for CPU/PG. Single resource just doesn't speak to me. It made fitting all the more interesting. Calling it a complex system for new players strucks me as odd. Are we assuming that most players are under the age of 10 or are they simply unable to understand 2 variables? There is one more thing. Say we have a single resource for fitting, does that mean that all suits will have the same amount? Kincats used to take a lot of PG. This meant that Caldari scout had a really hard time fitting them. On the other hand you could fit him with quite some eHP. It was OK because Caldari are not about speed right? So if we have a single resource will we be able to just do what we want with each suit? What I mean by this is that CPU/PG made it so not every faction suit could fit the same stuff as other faction's suit. You could but at a bigger cost. It was hard to make Caldari faster than Gallente while maintaing other stats due to lack of PG. PG/CPU - fit what you can (the point of factions) Single Resource - fit what you want Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
DUST Fiend 19168	Posted - 2017.05.18 03:52:00 - [86] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Brick wall. I prefer to think of myself as more of a super sticky yet strangely delicious cluster-web of frosting. Tomato tomato though. On to the thread at large, please don't tell me I just read class progression :/ How would that work with SP, or are you guys looking to drastically change / do away with SP? Rage flavored bitter berry
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9280	Posted - 2017.05.18 03:54:00 - [87] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Brick wall. I prefer to think of myself as more of a super sticky yet strangely delicious cluster-web of frosting. Tomato tomato though. On to the thread at large, please don't tell me I just read class progression :/ How would that work with SP, or are you guys looking to drastically change / do away with SP? Well they said from the very start they're going with a "Use it to skill into it" system. Makes sense that the more you use it, the more options you unlock as your skill with it increases. That's effectively "class progression" EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 19168	Posted - 2017.05.18 04:03:00 - [88] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Brick wall. I prefer to think of myself as more of a super sticky yet strangely delicious cluster-web of frosting. Tomato tomato though. On to the thread at large, please don't tell me I just read class progression :/ How would that work with SP, or are you guys looking to drastically change / do away with SP? Well they said from the very start they're going with a "Use it to skill into it" system. Makes sense that the more you use it, the more options you unlock as your skill with it increases. That's effectively "class progression" My rage now is nothing to my rage back then, I don't recall any of that. It makes sense yes, but this a universe where you can have knowledge literally injected into your brain, so it seems like yet another departure from the Universe at large. I hate knowing that you all must hate seeing my name on posts almost as much as I do sometimes, I don't mean to be so negative about the project I just feel...I don't know, like the game that literally helped me through the hardest part of my life is just...gone. Still trying to come to terms with that. Sorry guys :/ Rage flavored bitter berry
byte modal 1312	Posted - 2017.05.18 04:09:00 - [89] - Quote But but...Weapon Masters were done away with back in v4.0.1, I thought? >=P~ kitten bacon taco (nom)
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9283	Posted - 2017.05.18 04:11:00 - [90] - Quote I hear you man, its obviously an emotional thing for a lot of people. Even I, despite the boundless optimism, am fairly concerned about some of the ideas being presented. Even so details are scarce and I'm just trying to keep an open mind of....who knows, it may be really different, but I may like it even more. Might not. Can't tell right now, but at least we're having a good open conversation about this stuff. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer



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