|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
byte modal
1301
   |
Posted - 2017.05.15 21:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
That's a double-edged sword.
Yeah, it would simplify things (development, especially), but I would rather not consolidate the two. If this is a real consideration then I think it must be measured relative to other factors that we just don't have awareness of. How are skill points going to be handled? What about weaponry, dropsuit, and module hierarchies? Are these elements being flattened out in some way too? Have they decided on tier structures already?
For me, this is all like a sliding scale.
If I lose something here, I would prefer to gain something elsewhere; but if all of these elements are simplified across the board, then what will be left? PG/CPU as used in both EvE and DUST really widens the possibility of what gear could be matched together. Having two fitting caps really created (or at least created the perception of) a meta-game for the min/maxer types and an evolving goal when planning skills. That's not to say you would be without that goal if PG and CPU were consolidated, but it seems like it would be a few layers short?
Then again, a new player wouldn't have anything to compare it against unless that player comes from EvE and/or DUST. Who is the target audience then? Hell, everything might be just fine. It just goes back to how other parts of the game are handled relative to these PG/CPU changes. It is hard to get a sense of scope as to how all these parts may affect each other without knowing (or at least having some perspective) on the other moving parts. We can speculate I guess.... as we've always done....
Fantasy Dust League v1.0!!
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1302
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 23:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
On my phone so will try to be quick. You bring up a great point: NPE. More specifically, the efficiency of educating new players---highlighting connections between this or that. I'd go a step farther to point out how awkward the graphic user interface was. Fonts were small. PG and CPU meters were unclear as to wtf they were and how they either affected loadouts or WERE AFFECTED BY loadouts and skill points. I think a combination of lack of education and generally poor interface design is where the weak link rests.
Fix those two elements, and I wonder if the understanding of PG/CPU becomes easier... as would many things, I imagine.
Is the idea of capacitor still floating around?
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1302
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 23:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:byte modal wrote:On my phone so will try to be quick. You bring up a great point: NPE. More specifically, the efficiency of educating new players---highlighting connections between this or that. I'd go a step farther to point out how awkward the graphic user interface was. Fonts were small. PG and CPU meters were unclear as to wtf they were and how they either affected loadouts or WERE AFFECTED BY loadouts and skill points. I think a combination of lack of education and generally poor interface design is where the weak link rests.
Fix those two elements, and I wonder if the understanding of PG/CPU becomes easier... as would many things, I imagine.
Is the idea of capacitor still floating around? Capacitor is confirmed to be a thing but that's outside this discussion so let's not get too tangential.
Fair enough.
Previous observations still stand.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1303
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 14:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just to reiterate my earlier posts, and to simplify it so as not to get lost in the thread:
10 Complexity isn't bad.
20 Teach complexity, and users will follow (quality interface design and education beyond a low-res PDF are helpful).
30 Simplifying isn't bad either, if it adds quality to the overall product.
40 Don't replace complexity with simplicity unless it's the complexity that is the issue (and not poor education---see #2).
50 GOTO and PLAY 10
all that correlation and causation stuff. because, ...eyebrows.
Alrighty. I've said my part and will try to shufnitthefrikerp and let the discussion evolve. Big hugs, all around.
@CCP Rattati, thanks for the clarification and discussion points.
<3
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1303
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 15:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alena Asakura wrote:Quote:If you haven't read the article yet (http://biomassed.net/2017/05/12/project-nova-ongoing-updates/) one of the considerations of the design team for Nova is to possibly combine PG and CPU into a single fitting resource. So instead of balancing two pools that your modules and whatnot consume, it would just be a single pool that modules and weapons draw from.
I feel this is actually a pretty important discussion to have and I think people should really be vocal about their feedback regarding this potential change.
What do you think? Will combining these resources help to simplify things? Or will it take away a lot of the depth that Dust and EVEs systems offered? I'm fundamentally against anything that moves further away from EvE. The fact you're even considering something like this means Nova is moving generally away from EvE. Sorry, not interested.
Yeah, I had a near similar reaction at first but I posted my thoughts and waited for further replies. I thought the first page was good insight and broke a few of my assumptions. If you haven't already, please do read on a bit more. Also, I was wondering when you might pop in ;)
<3
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1303
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 15:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
LOL KILLZ wrote:Rattati, one aspect of Eve that really surprised me and quite honestly impressed me was the salvage system. Could it be possible to incorporate a salvager module in Nova? It would tick me off in Dust when I would go try to revive a fallen comrade that pressed X only for that guy to respawn and leave me out in the open to possibly get shot or Die just to help him out. Maybe we can shoot the corpse with nanites and repurpose the suits  A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? Because that was like the only selling point of the Amarr scout, you could run a long time.
Good point: Cap vs. Stamina. What's the difference? Mostly, I'm just fishing for more context in anything that I can get.
*cough* inquiring minds *cough*
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1305
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 16:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:LOL KILLZ wrote:A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? That's a really good question. I assumed Stamina would remain separate (especially if there are speed modules as speculated earlier in thread) but keeping track of shield/armor, bullets in clip, deployables, stamina, and now capacitor is quite a bit to keep track of while getting shot at. Then again, Nova is supposed to be more like EVE so that may be exactly what CCP is going for with Nova. 
I guess it depends on how you come at it. I'll argue some assumptions because there's no way to know without... knowing. Ya know? ;)
Reading that line "... keeping track of shield/armor, bullets in clip, deployables, stamina, and now capacitor is quite a bit to keep track of while getting shot at." made me twitch. I know I'm running way down a tangent here, but that's OK. What else is there to do?
Assuming the idea of cap and stam are involved, would this not complicate immediate user interactions? I mean, the argument could be asked that if such things must exist, would it be easier to manage such meta during pre-combat fitting stages using PG/CPU to determine fitting and stamina levels before going into batter, as opposed to tracking consumables, stamina, and cap (or whatever) during a shootout?
I think that all goes back to some of *Clone D's questions earlier as to what the intent is with NOVA combat: are we run&gun or are we holding ground for a longer engagement?
Either way (or really any way, because we really have no clue here as to one way or another of an infinite list of others) it ends up, user interface is going to have to be better. Whether it's for back-end planning of specs and load outs in a fashion we are used to with PG/CPU (however it works out in the end), or for the HUD design to be able to still manage stam, cap, and everything else during combat.
If the design is to be more like EvE, I'd still argue to keep PG/CPU, to at least build on the established logic from DUST, and to keep in line with EvE standards. Selfish, maybe, but I really loved that aspect of DUST as compared to other shooters.
Now if I wanted to just be a **** then I might suggest consolidating shields and armor. Put them both in the same slots, and remove the weaponry specialization to counter shield or armor. Make it so that bullets just do damage. Let everything else be cosmetic. But I'm just being jerky for the hell of it. But there is a real point in that silliness, i.e., where is the line drawn, and how far are we willing to cross it? And to what end?
UGH I hate not knowing a damned thing!!
EDIT:
*I can't find the post I was referring to earlier in this thread. It might have been by Dust Fiend.
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1305
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 16:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I almost feel like people are not really reading and assuming I'm the one suggesting we combine them...lol
lol. yeah =\
you might need to copy over your first response to the OP... just to reiterate ;)
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1312
|
Posted - 2017.05.18 04:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
But but...Weapon Masters were done away with back in v4.0.1, I thought?
>=P~
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1313
|
Posted - 2017.05.18 22:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I shouldn't have even mentioned SC, its apples and oranges when you just consider the circumstances and scopes of the projects and what not. I guess it's just that I was one of those idiots who CCP truly sold back when they first pitched the game. I really did see the game expanding into the broader EVE universe, fighting on actual planets etc etc.
I know now that was entirely unreasonable of both myself to believe and them to pitch, but it is what it is. Life moves on. I really do feel like I need to keep apologizing to everyone because I don't mean to come off so abrasive on basically every topic about Nova, I'm just really worried I'll never get to go back to the DUST I fell so deeply in love with, despite it's many and glaring flaws.
Man I just want something I can sink my teeth into because with all these scraps of info it's just too easy for me to get caught up in my imagination. Thanks guys for staying level headed and keeping these conversations on track
o7
FWIW
I don't think I've ever read your posts as abrasive. At least of what I can remember. Who knows, you might have been a total **** back when the game was live but to be honest, everyone just kinda blurs into one amalgam of all the players I've ever noticed. That's age I guess. It sucks getting older.
If you haven't noticed, I've turned into Blaze here following and liking damn near 95% of your posts because I'm going through the same exact roller coaster. It's almost as if now that the white noise of online rants for no other reason than to just rant has faded away, what's left is a support group like a watered down AA meeting. Watered down alcohol sucks. But that's where we are---some of us at least.
For me, I adore the concept of what DUST aimed to be. I adored it even through it's shortcomings. It linked console and PC and if nothing else worked or if even that was tenuous at best, it was still a massive accomplishment in my book. DUST because somewhat of an underdog that just never could find its stride. But I've always been the type to appreciate more those that try and fail than those than become complacent and get by.
As to what is what, I get it. Assuming the absolute worst, and all that I wish would not happen does, I still get it. Business is business and if abandoning every single aspect of what I felt DUST could have been had everything fallen into the right place at the right time is the path to what NOVA actually becomes, then I still get it. And I wish it well, as I do to the future players, developers, and committed fans. I hope that they are all as inspired by their game as I (and others) have been with DUST. I hope that I have a place in that community; but I'll be realistic, if not somewhat jaded, to my expectations on that particular point at least.
Now I mostly just post sarcastic trash for a quick laugh and a like. I hate that. I just have a hard time getting excited for crumbs, realizing that as those pieces start to come together the game I am waiting for will most likely only live in resigned memory. But still, I get it! My posts are not to complain, as they are more to desperately keep my voice echoing (through the muttering) and my ears in range on the naive hope that "one day... maybe?" I might hear something of that memory rekindled. Hell. As cynical as I pretend to be most times, I still care very deeply for DUST, CCP, this community, and even the future of NOVA whether or not it aligns with my desires. I mean... I'm still here, posting ...in a dead forum ....like so many other lost clones.
Clearly, I get it. I hope, but I get it.
So all the best of luck to whatever may come down the pipe. Honestly at this point I'd be happy with a bone or two? Don't get any ideas, TooMany Names. I'm no catgirl. But I probably pretend to be, for the right amount of ISK.
=^.^=
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
|
|
byte modal
1316
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 21:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Holy hell this argument has devolved back to closed beta gripes over sp gains?
EvE is unique in earning sp passively, over time.
Why is this progression type "special?" Because being special and standing apart makes it special by definition. Dust was only partly special because CCP changed skill progression from passive to active. That created weird issues. To fix that? Give us weapon masters to learn a weapon to then actively improve upon it...I guess?
SP gains and gaps have been talked to death ad nauseam. DUST created gaps by SP, sure. But that gap was mostly due to lateral gains rather than the compounding buff that some of you are implying here. THOSE would-be tiered gaps were more obvious because Newbro SP couldn't catch up? No.... Because CCP completely missed the boat in segregating player class. We were ALL dumped into the same match, whether you had the sp, experience, or gear to back it up.
Why is SP being argued...again? At least in this thread?
Also, this rant isn't to CCP. I don't know WHAT you are doing enough to rant over. Though that lack of that awareness, in and of itself, deserves a dedicated rant ;)
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1335
|
Posted - 2017.06.01 15:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey won me over. It does make sense that CPU/PG be made into 1 unit as there will no longer be 4 faction variants per class. With only 1 Scout, 1 Logi, 1 Assault, and 1 Sentinel in Nova, there is no need for such a division any longer. That being said... 
Fair.
I think the arguments for justification (after the fact) are reasonable. My issue is the original decision to begin with in taking a radical departure from the concept.
I am building a square, because of corners.
Hm. That is a great idea! You should round off the corners to make a circle! That way, you have a circle which is an improvement upon your box!
But I want a box? You are building a circle.
Isn't it great!? With rounded corners you can roll a circle!
Hm. That is reasonable, I mean to roll a circle. That would justify having a circle, if I wanted a circle. But I liked the box because of corners. Rolling is of no interest?
But it rolls! Here, let me show you as I've already done it for you!
...
I'm only have a go at this because there's nothing else to do with it all ;)
Who else am I gonna gripe to? my ex? My dog's ghost? Nah. This is the only place I can vent this specific frustration because I know there are a few holdouts that can relate. So please excuse my snarky comments from time to time. It's not just venting. I still need to keep my smart-assary in shape. I might as well exercise that here ;)
<3
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
byte modal
1342
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 03:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:byte modal wrote:Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey won me over. It does make sense that CPU/PG be made into 1 unit as there will no longer be 4 faction variants per class. With only 1 Scout, 1 Logi, 1 Assault, and 1 Sentinel in Nova, there is no need for such a division any longer. That being said... Fair. I think the arguments for justification (after the fact) are reasonable. My issue is the original decision to begin with in taking a radical departure from the concept.
I am building a square, because of corners.Hm. That is a great idea! You should round off the corners to make a circle! That way, you have a circle which is an improvement upon your box!But I want a box? You are building a circle.Isn't it great!? With rounded corners you can roll a circle!Hm. That is reasonable, I mean to roll a circle. That would justify having a circle, if I wanted a circle. But I liked the box because of corners. Rolling is of no interest?But it rolls! Here, let me show you as I've already done it for you!... I'm only have a go at this because there's nothing else to do with it all ;) Who else am I gonna gripe to? my ex? My dog's ghost? Nah. This is the only place I can vent this specific frustration because I know there are a few holdouts that can relate. So please excuse my snarky comments from time to time. It's not just venting. I still need to keep my smart-assary in shape. I might as well exercise that here ;) <3 I share your frustration. Welcome to New EAden.
Been here a while br.... Wait.
*rereads*
Oh. Ha!
almost missed it ;)
kitten bacon taco (nom)
|
|
|
| |
|