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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1444
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Posted - 2017.05.16 21:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:If you haven't read the article yet (http://biomassed.net/2017/05/12/project-nova-ongoing-updates/) one of the considerations of the design team for Nova is to possibly combine PG and CPU into a single fitting resource. So instead of balancing two pools that your modules and whatnot consume, it would just be a single pool that modules and weapons draw from.
I feel this is actually a pretty important discussion to have and I think people should really be vocal about their feedback regarding this potential change.
What do you think? Will combining these resources help to simplify things? Or will it take away a lot of the depth that Dust and EVEs systems offered?
I'm fundamentally against anything that moves further away from EvE. The fact you're even considering something like this means Nova is moving generally away from EvE.
Sorry, not interested. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1447
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 22:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
byte modal wrote:Alena Asakura wrote:Quote:If you haven't read the article yet (http://biomassed.net/2017/05/12/project-nova-ongoing-updates/) one of the considerations of the design team for Nova is to possibly combine PG and CPU into a single fitting resource. So instead of balancing two pools that your modules and whatnot consume, it would just be a single pool that modules and weapons draw from.
I feel this is actually a pretty important discussion to have and I think people should really be vocal about their feedback regarding this potential change.
What do you think? Will combining these resources help to simplify things? Or will it take away a lot of the depth that Dust and EVEs systems offered? I'm fundamentally against anything that moves further away from EvE. The fact you're even considering something like this means Nova is moving generally away from EvE. Sorry, not interested. Yeah, I had a near similar reaction at first but I posted my thoughts and waited for further replies. I thought the first page was good insight and broke a few of my assumptions. If you haven't already, please do read on a bit more. Also, I was wondering when you might pop in ;) <3
Ha! I'm always lurking. I may not post much because the conversation maybe isn't going in a direction I can add value. Something like this, though, I had to say something.
If anything, we should be ADDING, not subtracting. We need a capacitor for instance. In EvE the capacitor is used to build up a charge, powered by the PG, which can be released in a single pulse of energy, exactly as you would expect for energy, plasma or hybrid weapons, but not necessary at all for artillery or explosive weapons. This would really mix up the suits and the fittings and would make the whole thing much more interesting. It would also almost certainly preclude using certain weapons on certain suits, if there was not enough capacitor on the suits for them.
CPU also should always be a separate resource, unless you're going to put a CPU module on a suit, powered from the PG, which is there to supply CPU to weapons and modules that need it (presumably some won't). I think generally though, everything on a powered suit is going to need CPU, at least for control purposes. So PG and CPU would be needed for every module or weapon, and Cap would be needed for firing energy charges of one form or another, bursts of speed, etc. Condensing all these resources into one would be ludicrous. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1448
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 22:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
byte modal wrote:On my phone so will try to be quick. You bring up a great point: NPE. More specifically, the efficiency of educating new players---highlighting connections between this or that. I'd go a step farther to point out how awkward the graphic user interface was. Fonts were small. PG and CPU meters were unclear as to wtf they were and how they either affected loadouts or WERE AFFECTED BY loadouts and skill points. I think a combination of lack of education and generally poor interface design is where the weak link rests.
Fix those two elements, and I wonder if the understanding of PG/CPU becomes easier... as would many things, I imagine.
Is the idea of capacitor still floating around?
With regard to NPE, why not have simplified suits with limited everything and simplified weapons and modules that did not have the necessity for balancing PG, CPU (and Cap) and were therefore easy to fit for players who knew nothing about such things, but as soon as they wanted to get into some more serious fittings, they needed to progress onto suits, weapons and modules that were racially varied in all these aspects. That would make the whole thing easy for the NPE and satisfyingly complex for the more experienced player. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1448
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 22:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:In regards to complexity...
One resource pool is very common in games with any sort of loadout system so people will probably grasp that pretty easily. Two fitting resources is really not that much more complicated but it can be confusing if not explained properly, which is why people struggled with it in Dust.
So my question is, was the system itself flawed? Or was the way it was taught to you flawed? I'm kinda feeling it was the second.
So is it worth dropping a lot of fitting depth for the sake of a easier to digest NPE? I don't think so. I'd rather they keep the two resource system and just properly explain it this time. Perhaps I don't know enough about the system myself. Why do we need a CPU/PG system? Is it also possible that the system was not innately flawed, but that it was simply poorly executed? I don't think that I could be confident in any points I make if there is something fundamental I am missing.
Why do we need CPU/PG/Cap? Because different racial fittings and weapons need different mixes of them. The only reason you would want to go with a single resource is if you wanted to go to a single faction for all suits, weapons and modules, which is exactly what I feel is the point here and which I'm definitely against. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1448
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 22:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:
I do like the fact that we will have something resembling a capacitor (operating like a mana bar in a fantasy game, for those not familiar with the capacitor in EVE.) Maybe there will be a fitting trade off over the resources it requires to fit, versus how much capacitor it will use to activate?
This is something we are heavily looking at, we have a few design pillars that we are working from and the top one of those is
- Balance through Quantity, Capacitor and Cooldowns
- Universal Equipment [vs Class-Only]
- Universal Slots [vs Offensive/Defensive, vs High/Low, vs Assault/Logistics, vs Active/Passive]
- At most one Resource, maybe zero Resource [vs PG/CPU]
- Earned Equipment [vs bought, vs looted]
What this means is we can allow a lot of versatility, and balance through "availability". Power can be increased or decreased by the Cap cost/recharge rate instead of pre-battle configurations of PG/CPU. Can I "use" it vs can I "fit" it
ALL of these options should be available for simplified fittings for use in NPE. Once a player wishes to advance past NPE, they should have to start thinking about balancing resources. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1448
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Sigh They're finally considering capacitors...and it's for dropsuits Wtf. One Eyed King wrote:From reading through the thread, it seems to me that some people are equating complexity with depth. I don't think that is necessarily true. Some of the best games, video and otherwise are fairly simple, yet still have depth.
My problem with complexity for complexity's sake is that the more moving parts there are, the more various interactions there are, the more room for glitches and potential abuses that can occur.
If there is a legit reason for having more complex parts, and they substantially add to the depth, fun, and strategy for the game, I am all for it. But merely having complexity for its own sake is just asking to revisit the worst parts of Dust; the brokenness, glitchiness, and imbalance that ruined an otherwise amazing game. They want to add real time resource management to ground based run and gun gameplay, so this argument sort of falls flat on its face lol.
Capacitors should be used for dropsuits and vehicles alike. It's not whether it's a dropsuit or a vehicle that matters, but what the capacitor is used for which should always be a store of energy to be released in a single charge, for instance, for firing energy weapons. |
Alena Asakura
Rogue Clones
Yulai Federation
1448
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 23:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
byte modal wrote:LOL KILLZ wrote:Rattati, one aspect of Eve that really surprised me and quite honestly impressed me was the salvage system. Could it be possible to incorporate a salvager module in Nova? It would tick me off in Dust when I would go try to revive a fallen comrade that pressed X only for that guy to respawn and leave me out in the open to possibly get shot or Die just to help him out. Maybe we can shoot the corpse with nanites and repurpose the suits  A capacitor would be sweet to see in Nova. But would it do away with stamina? Because that was like the only selling point of the Amarr scout, you could run a long time. Good point: Cap vs. Stamina. What's the difference? Mostly, I'm just fishing for more context in anything that I can get. *cough* inquiring minds *cough*
There's a BIG difference. Cap is for sudden bursts of something, like firing a weapon, bursts of speed, boosting shields, etc. Stamina is about staying power, and therefore is more about being able to keep going for longer. Perhaps the capacitor could be used for both? But the uses would be different - bursts of energy expended from the capacitor would instantly lower its level by that amount, where stamina would require a continuous drain which could end up depleting the capacitor altogether if not managed. |
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