|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9256
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 19:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you haven't read the article yet (http://biomassed.net/2017/05/12/project-nova-ongoing-updates/) one of the considerations of the design team for Nova is to possibly combine PG and CPU into a single fitting resource. So instead of balancing two pools that your modules and whatnot consume, it would just be a single pool that modules and weapons draw from.
I feel this is actually a pretty important discussion to have and I think people should really be vocal about their feedback regarding this potential change.
What do you think? Will combining these resources help to simplify things? Or will it take away a lot of the depth that Dust and EVEs systems offered?
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9256
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Terry Webber wrote:Personally, I'm kind of torn on the subject. There are a lot of advantages in each design.
Could you list what you like and dislike about both?
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9257
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 22:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
In regards to complexity...
One resource pool is very common in games with any sort of loadout system so people will probably grasp that pretty easily. Two fitting resources is really not that much more complicated but it can be confusing if not explained properly, which is why people struggled with it in Dust.
So my question is, was the system itself flawed? Or was the way it was taught to you flawed? I'm kinda feeling it was the second.
So is it worth dropping a lot of fitting depth for the sake of a easier to digest NPE? I don't think so. I'd rather they keep the two resource system and just properly explain it this time.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9258
|
Posted - 2017.05.15 23:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
byte modal wrote:On my phone so will try to be quick. You bring up a great point: NPE. More specifically, the efficiency of educating new players---highlighting connections between this or that. I'd go a step farther to point out how awkward the graphic user interface was. Fonts were small. PG and CPU meters were unclear as to wtf they were and how they either affected loadouts or WERE AFFECTED BY loadouts and skill points. I think a combination of lack of education and generally poor interface design is where the weak link rests.
Fix those two elements, and I wonder if the understanding of PG/CPU becomes easier... as would many things, I imagine.
Is the idea of capacitor still floating around?
Capacitor is confirmed to be a thing but that's outside this discussion so let's not get too tangential.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9261
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 14:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rattati,
Will passive modules such as Armor Repairers consume capacitor as they run? Or is capcitor reserved for more active effects such as equipment? (Ie Repair tools)
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9261
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 14:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Rattati,
Will passive modules such as Armor Repairers consume capacitor as they run? Or is capcitor reserved for more active effects such as equipment? (Ie Repair tools) One way to balance is to reduce Cap when you fit Passive Equipment, less to use in battle for your Actives
Makes sense. How do you plan to limit player behavior such as dual tanking or running fits that would normally be restricted due to resource limitations? The dual cost system allowed developers to restrict certain modules from being used with each other due to high usage of one resource, but encouraged mixing certain modules together due to high usage of different resources.
It seems like removing this duality would take away a lot of developer tools for balancing. How do you plan to compensate for this loss of control?
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9262
|
Posted - 2017.05.16 15:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:From reading through the thread, it seems to me that some people are equating complexity with depth. I don't think that is necessarily true. Some of the best games, video and otherwise are fairly simple, yet still have depth.
My problem with complexity for complexity's sake is that the more moving parts there are, the more various interactions there are, the more room for glitches and potential abuses that can occur.
If there is a legit reason for having more complex parts, and they substantially add to the depth, fun, and strategy for the game, I am all for it. But merely having complexity for its own sake is just asking to revisit the worst parts of Dust; the brokenness, glitchiness, and imbalance that ruined an otherwise amazing game.
Except it's not complexity for the sake of complexity. Dual resources allow for a sort of game of finding ratios of the two for each module you use that give you the optimal use of each.
Think of it like Tetris. A single resource is like filling up a space that is 1 block wide and all you have are line pieces. of various legnths. Simple right? All you have to do is drop them
A dual resource resource system is like traditional tertris, where you have blocks of multiple dimensions that have to be fit together in an optimal configuration. More complicated, but which game is more fun?
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9266
|
Posted - 2017.05.17 16:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
I almost feel like people are not really reading and assuming I'm the one suggesting we combine them...lol
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9280
|
Posted - 2017.05.18 03:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote: Brick wall.
I prefer to think of myself as more of a super sticky yet strangely delicious cluster-web of frosting. Tomato tomato though. On to the thread at large, please don't tell me I just read class progression :/ How would that work with SP, or are you guys looking to drastically change / do away with SP?
Well they said from the very start they're going with a "Use it to skill into it" system. Makes sense that the more you use it, the more options you unlock as your skill with it increases. That's effectively "class progression"
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9283
|
Posted - 2017.05.18 04:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
I hear you man, its obviously an emotional thing for a lot of people.
Even I, despite the boundless optimism, am fairly concerned about some of the ideas being presented. Even so details are scarce and I'm just trying to keep an open mind of....who knows, it may be really different, but I may like it even more. Might not. Can't tell right now, but at least we're having a good open conversation about this stuff.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9283
|
Posted - 2017.05.18 04:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I know I'm an ******* most of the time but even though I don't know any of you guys here personally, I'm really grateful for you all. Especially pillars like Pokey standing through our darkest hour, I come down hard and unreasonably sometimes but I'm glad you're around. I didn't spend much time there but my time with OSG was the best I've ever had in a group setting in a game before. Awesome group of people.
Damn I miss those days.
I mean here's how I see it man. **** could be completely different, could be a totally different feeling game. And sure, game had some great bits, also had some really ****** bits.
But why are you still here? Game isn't even playable, yet we're still here....talking about this **** like a bunch of addicts. It's really not that much about the game as it is about the community.
So yeah it may be different, may be better or worse, but we'll still tear that **** up regardless of what form it may take.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9298
|
Posted - 2017.05.20 21:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:One Eyed King wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:If you're simplifying something in order to then make it more complex, why not just build upon what's already there? All processes need streamlined. There is never a point in doing something in 10 steps when you can do the same thing in 5. Taking the 10 steps just gives twice as many chances of something going wrong, and twice as many things to work around when adding new things. The thing is the concept of PG/CPU is well known. Both in Dust and in EVE. So I don't really know if it's that much of a time saver. From my point of view it's more like starting from step x towards y vs starting from a scratch towards point y. In both cases you need to balance all kinds of stuff. Going from 2 to 1 doesn't really mean cutting the work in half.
PG And CPU are indeed known well by EVE and Dust players...but also bear in mind that the target audience is not simply current CCP fans
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9302
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 21:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
If people have not seen it yet, I ask you give this a read:
http://biomassed.net/2017/05/20/theory-workshop-project-nova-capacitor-and-module-interaction/
Consider it an alternative take on fitting and how to make PG/CPU a more meaningful set of values and tie it to a central resource.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9302
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 21:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Don't mind DUST Fiend. Just wait till I release the new compilation post with all the new details that have surfaced. I can hear the screeching already.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9302
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 21:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Don't mind DUST Fiend. Just wait till I release the new compilation post with all the new details that have surfaced. I can hear the screeching already. Autistic screeching, thank you kindly Also are we back to any opinion that opposes CCPs logic is screeching? Good to see some things never change
Haha no not quite, Rattati just made a particular comment which I think will rub you the wrong way in a very personal way.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9303
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 22:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Rat man doesnt like me much lol but I cant blame him. I welcome the hate if it draws him out of his hole for a few verses.
Honest talk, I don't think there is anything wrong with you stating your opinion regardless of what it may be, even if I personally disagree with you. I like to think you and I can at least be civil enough to avoid degrading the validity of each other's opinion, just as long as you don't mind the friendly jest from time too time.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9303
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 22:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:At the end of the day I just want the game to be good. Past experiences tell me I cant trust CCP to do it alone so if I have to yell at a wall to voice my opinion then you can just find me over at the GalLag facility hugging an MCC missile while i scream obscenities at it waiting for it to take off.
I hear ya, feedback is important.
Question, have you had a chance to take a look at the Theory Workshop blog I wrote? I'm curious your thoughts.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9303
|
Posted - 2017.05.21 22:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Well, the reason I ask is because the post is about capacitor and using it as a limiting factor to balance modules/equipment fitting.
EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
9384
|
Posted - 2017.06.03 03:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Moorian Flav wrote:Pokey won me over. It does make sense that CPU/PG be made into 1 unit as there will no longer be 4 faction variants per class. With only 1 Scout, 1 Logi, 1 Assault, and 1 Sentinel in Nova, there is no need for such a division any longer. That being said...
Wait what? I never said I supported the idea, I was trying to start a discussion up so people could give their opinions.
In fact I said later in the thread that I didn't want fitting limits removed. If you want my opinion how things should be done, look at my Theory Workshop about Fitting and Capacitor
Project|Nova - What We Know So Far
|
|
|
|