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DUST Fiend 19047	Posted - 2017.04.10 02:50:00 - [1] - Quote So in my other thread down on the second page, Kevall posted some pretty relevant and damning info. I can't say I'm surprised, and I'm too burnt out to rage, all I can say is for CCPs sake I hope they hit the FPS part out of the park. Feel free to discuss, I felt this deserved its own thread as the other is mostly satire for lulz. Kevall Longstride wrote: These are reasonable exceptions and pretty much on par with my own. Something I feel that I must say however regards vehicles in Nova. I want to be as honest as I can with you and in this instance I have to brutal. If you as player are having expectations of vehicles in this game, strong or otherwise, when it finally arrives and waiting for the return of Dropships, MAV's and HAV's then please stop doing so right now. We might have liked them as a feature. But the day it was decided to have them in the game pretty much doomed Dust to failure. Why? Because they were added to be 'cool'. There was no game design positives in them being in the game, it only caused problems. If they had stayed as perhaps an 'unskilled' item drop with no fittings (as they originally were) and no skill tree to effect them it *might* have worked. But the rock, paper, scissors style of balancing any other FPS was pretty much rendered unusable in Dust and the balance issues between in infantry and vehicles plagued the game to its last breath. I've yet to speak to anyone in CCP wanting to put vehicles in the game. The new team is super enthused to be working on Nova. The returning Dev's who've come back to specifically work on Nova in Reykjavik have a 'We're gonna do this right this time!' mantra. The next sentence after saying that is usually 'and not put vehicles in it.' The new concept as shown last year with the Demo at FF 2016 and from what I played in the CCP office this year is ship based with maps inside and on the surface of Eve ships. Vehicles are not required and deliberately so in terms of game design. IF and must stress again its a pretty big IF we get to a point, likely as not long after the game is released and balanced enough to able to incorporate vehicles of some kind they will be 'dumb' asset drops in which only the players innate skill at using them will be the determining factor like every other FPS that has vehicles does. Old DUST Fan Fiction
Richard Gamerich-R Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 482	Posted - 2017.04.10 02:59:00 - [2] - Quote No worries I will continue to wait my dropship, even after the release of Nova. I played DUST 514 50% of my time just for the vehicles, I can't accept these statements ! On va tout déchirer !
Lightning35 Delta514 Federation Marines 62 5290	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:04:00 - [3] - Quote But... my madrugar GVo CEO of Federation Marines 62 - Bravo Company Gallente - Quafe - Gk.0s/Gv.0s - 72m SP Quafe Master - Quamander - Quad
7th Son 7 Hakuna Matatah Inc 1729	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:14:00 - [4] - Quote I was really hoping Dust would stay strong with their depth in a market that seems to be becoming increasingly more and more noob friendly. I hope CCP understands that by "trimming too much fat" that they are simultaneously severing the emotions tied to that "fat". I see why these companies are doing this ( bigger player base/money) but I feel it's just stunting and retarding growth in gaming. I don't know what else to say but that I'm seriously bummed out atm . Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9156	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:17:00 - [5] - Quote This isn't really new news... We're you still actually hoping to have them at launch? EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 19047	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:20:00 - [6] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: This isn't really new news... We're you still actually hoping to have them at launch? No I wasn't, but this is further indication that not only are vehicles not on the initial roadmap, they may very well not be on the road map at all. I'm sorry if the one thing that truly made DUST special for me has been ripped away, likely never to return. I've been doing pretty good handling that lately, so please if you don't mind, don't rub salt in my wounds. Thank you kindly. Old DUST Fan Fiction
7th Son 7 Hakuna Matatah Inc 1730	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:29:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: This isn't really new news... We're you still actually hoping to have them at launch? Yeah, maybe too much optimism lol, but no I did'nt think they would be crazy enough to drop them altogether after having as much time to work with them as they did. Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
Loaded'Horn SPACE CASE INC 297	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:34:00 - [8] - Quote Boo! Sure R&D for vehicles would be time ($) consuming and a balance factor. Hmm. I think Eve does have over 50 main types of ship with over 100 variations. Could we not at least have 8 vanilla types for ground operations? As in a Lav and DS for 2 racial models? Earned with lol kill streaks or squad points ala OB Strikes. Shouldn't Eve manufacture them to sell to Nova players? Suppose it takes 4 more years on and lots of ($)whales to influence design content. Are you devs really going to channel us players towards Eve/ valkyrie if we want to fly/ drive vehicles? Copy and paste the vehicles we had, no skill variations. Sell them for 29.95. You gets the cash we gets to drive you dig. Sure I don't fully know what this Nova concept is going to be, Eve like without any machinery? How's that work...I don't know. How big are the maps? Any ways I'm not running for 3 to 5 minutes to flank. Geez I'll settle for a scooter or phone booth teleporter. First day open beta. I used to play for the points.=ƒò¦Old Skool! By natural selection I'm Salty & Peppery.
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7473	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:41:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: This isn't really new news... We're you still actually hoping to have them at launch? Nah just implemented later with the same issues, you just get to wait for them to find out they're just as broken =ƒÆö
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7473	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:44:00 - [10] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: This isn't really new news... We're you still actually hoping to have them at launch? No I wasn't, but this is further indication that not only are vehicles not on the initial roadmap, they may very well not be on the road map at all. I'm sorry if the one thing that truly made DUST special for me has been ripped away, likely never to return. I've been doing pretty good handling that lately, so please if you don't mind, don't rub salt in my wounds. Thank you kindly. Confirms I won't be playing, however I'll still hang around just incase

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9157	Posted - 2017.04.10 03:58:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: This isn't really new news... We're you still actually hoping to have them at launch? No I wasn't, but this is further indication that not only are vehicles not on the initial roadmap, they may very well not be on the road map at all. I'm sorry if the one thing that truly made DUST special for me has been ripped away, likely never to return. I've been doing pretty good handling that lately, so please if you don't mind, don't rub salt in my wounds. Thank you kindly. No drama intended. I was just surprised that you held that viewpoint still. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
DUST Fiend 19052	Posted - 2017.04.10 04:27:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: No drama intended. I was just surprised that you held that viewpoint still. All I've done in DUST is pilot vehicles and destroy them with AV. I mean I tried the other stuff but only scouts were any fun, and that was mostly because of hacking and destroying enemy vehicles with them. It's fine though, I'm just going to place my hope in RSI with SC, if a team that large, talented and funded can't do it then perhaps it simply wasn't meant to be done. As for the FPS side I'll have to see if Nova stacks up to Overwatch and Destiny 2 (we'll see with that one), then go from there You can't respond to me on this topic without invoking drama, you should know this by now. It's me Pokey. We've been down this road. Holding hands. Skipping. Old DUST Fan Fiction
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9157	Posted - 2017.04.10 04:39:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: No drama intended. I was just surprised that you held that viewpoint still. All I've done in DUST is pilot vehicles and destroy them with AV. I mean I tried the other stuff but only scouts were any fun, and that was mostly because of hacking and destroying enemy vehicles with them. It's fine though, I'm just going to place my hope in RSI with SC, if a team that large, talented and funded can't do it then perhaps it simply wasn't meant to be done. As for the FPS side I'll have to see if Nova stacks up to Overwatch and Destiny 2 (we'll see with that one), then go from there You can't respond to me on this topic without invoking drama, you should know this by now. It's me Pokey. We've been down this road. Holding hands. Skipping. I suppose that true, even so I didn't mean to upset you, I was just confused about the timeline of when things were said and expectations set. Either way it's difficult when your primary playstyle won't be in the game at all, it's disheartening and disappointing. Probably feels like the rug was pulled out from under you so being upset to any degree makes sense. EVE: Phoenix - 'Rise Again' Trailer
Grimmiers 954	Posted - 2017.04.10 05:59:00 - [14] - Quote That's a shame. The worst things about vehicles are pretty hard to fix though. Like most players not needing a dropship pilot because they just crash land their own and lavs running over people instead of using the gunning seat. The only way you can make vehicles work is by really constricting their deployment rate and location, but you'll get the issue of people waiting at the base so they can call in their vehicle. The odd solution would be to have matchmaking pick a few designated vehicle pilots (having the player set their preferred playstyle through options), but then people would probably ditch the game if they didn't get their desired role. If anything vehicles might only work within that old eve legion sandbox gametype that is most likely scrapped. It really seems like ccp as a whole is trading doing most things wrong into getting one thing right. I just hope those one things eventually add up.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 1214	Posted - 2017.04.10 06:37:00 - [15] - Quote For Christ ... give me a bike at last. Not much time left...
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1201	Posted - 2017.04.10 07:39:00 - [16] - Quote Rattati wasn't a fan of vehicles we all know that but they were a very important part of the game for some people and if they're not even on the roadmap that is disappointing. In Dust vehicles didn't have a meaningful role, starting again in Nova meant they could address this. Also if the issue is balancing them with Infantry then just create vehicle only game modes The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
Russel Moralles Klandatu 212	Posted - 2017.04.10 07:55:00 - [17] - Quote I want to shout a lot of bad words but being civil so as to not get banned. No vehicles. Raging in silence. Raging while walking away.
Yokal Bob WarRavens Imperium Eden 1075	Posted - 2017.04.10 09:07:00 - [18] - Quote Oh that sucks :( They helped make dust what it was, fun to kill xD CCP left the console gamers to die
Ghural WarRavens Imperium Eden 499	Posted - 2017.04.10 11:42:00 - [19] - Quote Vehicles were fine in Dust. It was the lack of an easily accessible counter to them that was the real problem.
DiablosMajora 454	Posted - 2017.04.10 13:21:00 - [20] - Quote All I'm hearing is that if vehicles ever are put in, they wont have the intricate fitting like dropsuits. Paves the way for dedicated roles for variety Prepare your angus

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3226	Posted - 2017.04.10 14:14:00 - [21] - Quote Ghural wrote: Vehicles were fine in Dust. It was the lack of an easily accessible counter to them that was the real problem. Exactly. One web grenade and it would have been a whole 'nother story. Sill, i support wholeheartedly 'no vehicles' at launch. Spending merc fortune like water keeping these clone tumors under control....
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7476	Posted - 2017.04.10 15:04:00 - [22] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Ghural wrote: Vehicles were fine in Dust. It was the lack of an easily accessible counter to them that was the real problem. Exactly. One web grenade and it would have been a whole 'nother story. Sill, i support wholeheartedly 'no vehicles' at launch. It'd be better if vehicles an no fps at launch =ƒÜÇ But honestly I'm a slayer, vehicles were my freedom where I could do something else an not get bored, the fps part had better be good to make vehicles wait..not a futuristic cod with better ttk
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1836	Posted - 2017.04.10 15:13:00 - [23] - Quote Let's be honest, one of the many annoyances with vehicles, was the disparity between those who specced in fully and those who didn't spec into them at all. The old "to kill a tank, you should bring out a tank" logic was flawed because people didn't want to have to spec into something just to kill it... And that's a lot of points to spend getting into a role that isn't useful in half the situations. Don't get me wrong tho, those points were spent having fun, but as someone who enjoyed both ground and vehicle play it was kind of a pain having to spec into both. I don't really care about fittings and ****, I liked the occasional teamwork and strategy that vehicles brought to the game, so I hope they add them back in and that any changes making vehicles more accessible make that better. Though it does bother me, that the lack of vehicles on release, makes it likely we'll end up with tiny maps where "controlling the map" is less of a strategically moving your infantry to certain zones and more "hold this hallway with yo mass driver." So yeah, please tell me we'll get decent sized maps, because even with infantry only, some of the tiny playable areas we ended up with in the end killed the fun in Dust.
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7476	Posted - 2017.04.10 15:17:00 - [24] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Let's be honest, one of the many annoyances with vehicles, was the disparity between those who specced in fully and those who didn't spec into them at all. The old "to kill a tank, you should bring out a tank" logic was flawed because people didn't want to have to spec into something just to kill it... And that's a lot of points to spend getting into a role that isn't useful in half the situations. Don't get me wrong tho, those points were spent having fun, but as someone who enjoyed both ground and vehicle play it was kind of a pain having to spec into both. I don't really care about fittings and ****, I liked the occasional teamwork and strategy that vehicles brought to the game, so I hope they add them back in and that any changes making vehicles more accessible make that better. Though it does bother me, that the lack of vehicles on release, makes it likely we'll end up with tiny maps where "controlling the map" is less of a strategically moving your infantry to certain zones and more "hold this hallway with yo mass driver." So yeah, please tell me we'll get decent sized maps, because even with infantry only, some of the tiny playable areas we ended up with in the end killed the fun in Dust. Lets not forget the solo av logic as well..1 dude who spent like no sp an a fraction of the isk, should solo a tank with ease..no matter what you'll have QQ with people thinking they shouldn't have to do anything just get the easy W (talking about both sides)
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1329	Posted - 2017.04.10 15:30:00 - [25] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Let's be honest, one of the many annoyances with vehicles, was the disparity between those who specced in fully and those who didn't spec into them at all. The old "to kill a tank, you should bring out a tank" logic was flawed because people didn't want to have to spec into something just to kill it... And that's a lot of points to spend getting into a role that isn't useful in half the situations. Don't get me wrong tho, those points were spent having fun, but as someone who enjoyed both ground and vehicle play it was kind of a pain having to spec into both. I don't really care about fittings and ****, I liked the occasional teamwork and strategy that vehicles brought to the game, so I hope they add them back in and that any changes making vehicles more accessible make that better. Though it does bother me, that the lack of vehicles on release, makes it likely we'll end up with tiny maps where "controlling the map" is less of a strategically moving your infantry to certain zones and more "hold this hallway with yo mass driver." So yeah, please tell me we'll get decent sized maps, because even with infantry only, some of the tiny playable areas we ended up with in the end killed the fun in Dust. Lets not forget the solo av logic as well..1 dude who spent like no sp an a fraction of the isk, should solo a tank with ease..no matter what you'll have QQ with people thinking they shouldn't have to do anything just get the easy W (talking about both sides) That argument was stupid on both sides, but if i managed to get 3 proto packed AV grenades and proto 3 swarm shots into a tank, it should blow up. Especially if i smack it on the weak spot. AV wasn't cheap, less SP for sure, but in order to kill the tank you left yourself wide open to anyone with a decent gun meaning you'd die a lot. One person who has no isk or SP investment shouldn't solo a tank, ever. But a person who has level 5 + proficiency in the AV weapon, AV grenades and a proto suit as well as the other skills to have a good fit should be able to, not a guaranteed kill but a very high chance. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1204	Posted - 2017.04.10 15:44:00 - [26] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Snip. Vehicle only doesn't have to mean only ambush, I.e. attackers have to destroy the gates, defenders drive them back. Kill of the hill/secure the dropzone. Then you've got PVE which is hinted at being on the cards Separating it means less Av v Vehicle rage (whilst the system was unbalanced). The issue in dust was the redline, it's presence meant we couldn't go for the high health/ low Regen model and were stuck with the Alpha damage or bust omi hardener mode The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
DUST Fiend 19059	Posted - 2017.04.10 15:48:00 - [27] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: The issue in dust was the redline It really did doom vehicle play, especially the moment they decided to go with the "Waves of Opportunity" philosophy for vehicles. This combined to lead to so many vehicle players who would either constantly retreat to the redline when threatened or on cooldown, or those who never left it. If you couldn't wander off and hide, and if players could call down their own installations and turrets like originally envisioned, much of these balance concerns evaporate. It's just a shame that I have to drop $400 on a VR headset if I want to fly again in the EVE universe (EVE itself doesn't count lol) Old DUST Fan Fiction
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7479	Posted - 2017.04.10 16:08:00 - [28] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: The issue in dust was the redline It really did doom vehicle play, especially the moment they decided to go with the "Waves of Opportunity" philosophy for vehicles. This combined to lead to so many vehicle players who would either constantly retreat to the redline when threatened or on cooldown, or those who never left it. If you couldn't wander off and hide, and if players could call down their own installations and turrets like originally envisioned, much of these balance concerns evaporate. It's just a shame that I have to drop $400 on a VR headset if I want to fly again in the EVE universe (EVE itself doesn't count lol) If they want to take away the fun part of creating your own vehicle playstyle, it would be nice to get a sequential gamemode like Skirmish 1.0. Have the first phase be out in the wide open with a certain number of vehicles back at base, maybe players can buy "Pilots licenses" with ISK or through SP or something that gives them priority to vehicles, spawning them closer and removing a 30 second lockout from vehicles that non pilots enjoy. That first phase would be 2 parts where you push back the first fortifications and then the primary fortifications after that, using vehicles to help break walls and bridges and installations etc. Then the third phase you're storming a big ass fortress and there's no space for vehicles, it's all just indoor combat. Dreaming is a frustrating thing lol. I just have to wait and see. Thankfully the state of the world has given me a different outlook on all this stuff, it would at least be nice to see some screenshots or something. Anything. Now that you mention it the redline could have been the biggest issue for AV vs vehicles..its not that they couldn't destroy vehicles but it was too EZ to retreat an hide in the redline =ƒñö The ISK thing isn't an issue as you don't need proto in pubs, of course that logic breaks the balance as proto av vs std/adv vehicles would probably feel op (if the EZ safe zones are removed/made different)
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 336	Posted - 2017.04.10 16:52:00 - [29] - Quote Ssooooooo, does that means no Duna? This also means no murder taxi, jihad jeep nor kamekasi dropship.
Moorian Flav 593	Posted - 2017.04.10 17:12:00 - [30] - Quote Why wouldn't/couldn't CCP build a vehicle based game like World of Tanks or War Thunder using their DUST vehicles? CCP already did the R&D to create those vehciles so why let them waste? I am sure game modes could be made simply around those vehicles. Capture the flag with ADSs, anyone? Or Domination with tanks? I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".

Lightning35 Delta514 Federation Marines 62 5290	Posted - 2017.04.10 17:33:00 - [31] - Quote I think the biggest problem with vehicles was their purpose within the game. LAVs- light assault vehicles, when they should have been used in squads as quicker means of transportation and fire support, maybe even player defense (guys using it as cover) they were used to ram kill, and disposable assets by ALL PLAYERS. HAVs- heavy assault vehicles, were sometimes spammed as lavs but mostly abused by players maxed out in them. The biggest problem I can see is the spamming of vehicles, rendering av useless or too effective. I think something that could really help in the future would be vehicles designations. For example- LAVs- squad vehicles. Each squad is granted one vehicle to use. 16 player team = no more than 4 LAVs, assuming squads will consist of 4 players. HAVs/dropships- platoon vehicles. Each platoon, 2 joined squads, either joined in match or formed before match, is granted ONE HAV or dropship. That means no more than 2 HAVs/dropships per match. Seems fair. Doesn't matter who calls, just matters that there's a threshold and they aren't spammed. No squad or platoon? No vehicles. It makes balancing vehicles into the game easier. Vehicles weak enough and too few in numbers to resist a squad or a few players, but strong enough to resist and push through, taking some beating. CEO of Federation Marines 62 - Bravo Company Gallente - Quafe - Gk.0s/Gv.0s - 72m SP Quafe Master - Quamander - Quad
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1836	Posted - 2017.04.10 17:41:00 - [32] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: That argument was stupid on both sides, but if i managed to get 3 proto packed AV grenades and proto 3 swarm shots into a tank, it should blow up. Especially if i smack it on the weak spot. AV wasn't cheap, less SP for sure, but in order to kill the tank you left yourself wide open to anyone with a decent gun meaning you'd die a lot. One person who has no isk or SP investment shouldn't solo a tank, ever. But a person who has level 5 + proficiency in the AV weapon, AV grenades and a proto suit as well as the other skills to have a good fit should be able to, not a guaranteed kill but a very high chance. I'd like to say hardener stacking was a big problem for balance. Might have been better to harden part of the shield/hull and weaken the rest, then you only tank a certain direction and good AV positioning surrounding the tank would mean it's death... While the tank is still effectively able to tank and have decent hp. Or there's always reducing the movespeed when a hardener is active, so you become completely immobile when you're tanking it out... Giving av the chance to surround the tank and block its escape when the hardeners drop.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1330	Posted - 2017.04.10 18:13:00 - [33] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: That argument was stupid on both sides, but if i managed to get 3 proto packed AV grenades and proto 3 swarm shots into a tank, it should blow up. Especially if i smack it on the weak spot. AV wasn't cheap, less SP for sure, but in order to kill the tank you left yourself wide open to anyone with a decent gun meaning you'd die a lot. One person who has no isk or SP investment shouldn't solo a tank, ever. But a person who has level 5 + proficiency in the AV weapon, AV grenades and a proto suit as well as the other skills to have a good fit should be able to, not a guaranteed kill but a very high chance. I'd like to say hardener stacking was a big problem for balance. Might have been better to harden part of the shield/hull and weaken the rest, then you only tank a certain direction and good AV positioning surrounding the tank would mean it's death... While the tank is still effectively able to tank and have decent hp. Or there's always reducing the movespeed when a hardener is active, so you become completely immobile when you're tanking it out... Giving av the chance to surround the tank and block its escape when the hardeners drop. Hardeners really did throw a spanner in the works. They had little to no drawback due to the red line existing, mitigating the long cool downs they had. Though i don't think that tanks should be the focal point of AV/V balance, otherwise dropships and LAVs and MAVs get borked as well. Maybe introduce different kinds of swarms that work on different vehicles or give all hulls the same base HP and DS and LAVs have much less fitting room and fitting slots. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1204	Posted - 2017.04.10 18:32:00 - [34] - Quote My concern is that without considering how vehicles could work from the start then the mechanics will be much harder to get right The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1404	Posted - 2017.04.10 20:32:00 - [35] - Quote Loaded'Horn wrote: Boo! Sure R&D for vehicles would be time ($) consuming and a balance factor. Hmm. I think Eve does have over 50 main types of ship with over 100 variations. Could we not at least have 8 vanilla types for ground operations? As in a Lav and DS for 2 racial models? Earned with lol kill streaks or squad points ala OB Strikes. Shouldn't Eve manufacture them to sell to Nova players? Suppose it takes 4 more years on and lots of ($)whales to influence design content. Are you devs really going to channel us players towards Eve/ valkyrie if we want to fly/ drive vehicles? Copy and paste the vehicles we had, no skill variations. Sell them for 29.95. You gets the cash we gets to drive you dig. Sure I don't fully know what this Nova concept is going to be, Eve like without any machinery? How's that work...I don't know. How big are the maps? Any ways I'm not running for 3 to 5 minutes to flank. Geez I'll settle for a scooter or phone booth teleporter. I would only be happy with vehicles in other games like EvE and Valkyrie if there was true interaction between all the games, so that one game could influence the outcome of another. Since we know this will not be the case I'm not happy with the idea that there will be no vehicles in Nova. I'm not a vehicles type of person but I recognise true planetside battles will necessarily involve vehicles. If Nova is to remain on stations and ships, then yes, vehicles are superfluous, but when and if Nova moves to planetary surfaces, lack of vehicles will be ridiculous.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1404	Posted - 2017.04.10 20:38:00 - [36] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: That's a shame. The worst things about vehicles are pretty hard to fix though. Like most players not needing a dropship pilot because they just crash land their own and lavs running over people instead of using the gunning seat. The only way you can make vehicles work is by really constricting their deployment rate and location, but you'll get the issue of people waiting at the base so they can call in their vehicle. The odd solution would be to have matchmaking pick a few designated vehicle pilots (having the player set their preferred playstyle through options), but then people would probably ditch the game if they didn't get their desired role. If anything vehicles might only work within that old eve legion sandbox gametype that is most likely scrapped. It really seems like ccp as a whole is trading doing most things wrong into getting one thing right. I just hope those one things eventually add up. I was so disappointed to find that there was a category of "Pilot" and then discovering that there was nothing for it. Clearly there was at some point the intention that there would be specialised pilots of dropships, and that they would have their own suits, skills, fittings, etc, and that never eventuated. That would have solved the problem of having specialisation, if the only people who were piloting dropships were pilots in pilot suits. I really did wish that aspect of the game had have been explored by CCP. Not to be, I guess.
DAAAA BEAST Corrosive Synergy 4648	Posted - 2017.04.10 21:12:00 - [37] - Quote Imagine seeing Duna and DUST Fiend logiing scrubs in NOVA lol It would be irony in Duna's case, now that I think about it. Copyright micturater and cynosure of humor.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1471	Posted - 2017.04.10 21:45:00 - [38] - Quote Vehicles didn't have any real purpose on the field. Back in beta you could use them to shoot down the MCC faster, which meant they were useful for that. But when they took that away they didn't replace it with anything. Without a clear purpose, vehicles turned their attention to infantry. Overall though, there was a lack role based goals across the board. Outside of ninja hacking, scouts had no defined purpose. Logis only repped heavies, because they had nothing better to do. There should've been additional things for those roles, scouts and logis, to do. Scouts made great assassins, but dust never had mechanic or reward for assassinating the FC or squad leaders. Logis could have been useful for repairing other things like structures, but we only had handful. Small turrets never made it out of beta, and there were no other deploy-able items that logis could interact with, like sentry turrets or barricades. Vehicles would need a purpose as well. The option of blowing up a building vs trying to capture it through control points would've meant a clear objective and incentive for vehicles to mainly ignore infantry that weren't an immediate threat to themselves while focusing on their own objectives. Dust 514 didn't do any of this and that's why the game had balance issues. Everything was forced to live largely in a deathmatch or control point game mode.
DUST Fiend 19064	Posted - 2017.04.10 21:50:00 - [39] - Quote DAAAA BEAST wrote: Imagine seeing Duna and DUST Fiend logiing scrubs in NOVA lol It would be irony in Duna's case, now that I think about it. If I do end up playing Ill be shotgun scout pretty exclusively. It was the only non AV or pilot role that I enjoyed. Old DUST Fan Fiction
DAAAA BEAST Corrosive Synergy 4648	Posted - 2017.04.10 22:24:00 - [40] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: If I do end up playing Ill be shotgun scout pretty exclusively. It was the only non AV or pilot role that I enjoyed. Vehicle users can aim ? Copyright micturater and cynosure of humor.

DUST Fiend 19067	Posted - 2017.04.10 22:49:00 - [41] - Quote DAAAA BEAST wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: If I do end up playing Ill be shotgun scout pretty exclusively. It was the only non AV or pilot role that I enjoyed. Vehicle users can aim ? Why do you think Im drawn to one shot kill ambush weapons Old DUST Fan Fiction
Ghural WarRavens Imperium Eden 506	Posted - 2017.04.11 01:04:00 - [42] - Quote I also think that part of the solution is in map design in terms of what areas can be accessed by tanks and flying vehicles, and which areas can only be accessed by infantry. Too much of Dust maps were available to vehicles in my opinion. An example would be a large facility in the middle of an open plain. Sure tanks can get you to the front door, and help protect your ingress points, but the interior is all narrow halls and rooms that only infantry can enter and fight in.
The Noob Destroyer 1599	Posted - 2017.04.11 01:07:00 - [43] - Quote I dont think we will be seeing vehicles much. Though the Maelstrom map that Rattati was talking about sounds pronising The Community; One big family, sometimes dysfunctional.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1135	Posted - 2017.04.11 20:40:00 - [44] - Quote Well, I've been away from these forums for a long time, well, as an active partaker anyway, though I have been stalking these forums for Nova news ever since it's been a thing. Anyway, if this is true and Nova will not have vehicles, ever, I will not be playing it sadly. I think that for vehicle gameplay Dust filled a void when it came to very customizable vehicles and on top of that it had "great" economy and most certainly even better community. I guess the time has come for me to drop my dream. I feel like my heart's broken now.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17058	Posted - 2017.04.11 20:54:00 - [45] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Well, I've been away from these forums for a long time, well, as an active partaker anyway, though I have been stalking these forums for Nova news ever since it's been a thing. Anyway, if this is true and Nova will not have vehicles, ever, I will not be playing it sadly. I think that for vehicle gameplay Dust filled a void when it came to very customizable vehicles and on top of that it had "great" economy and most certainly even better community. I guess the time has come for me to drop my dream. I feel like my heart's broken now. No one at CCP has said that Nova will not have vehicles, ever. Rattati did say that they likely won't be there at initial release. Consider that on Dust's release, suits did not have all 4 races for each. That was added later. Nova, much like EVE, will be a persistent game.The game you see at release, should it release, will not be quite the same game you see one or several years after. Try to keep some perspective. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7494	Posted - 2017.04.11 21:06:00 - [46] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Well, I've been away from these forums for a long time, well, as an active partaker anyway, though I have been stalking these forums for Nova news ever since it's been a thing. Anyway, if this is true and Nova will not have vehicles, ever, I will not be playing it sadly. I think that for vehicle gameplay Dust filled a void when it came to very customizable vehicles and on top of that it had "great" economy and most certainly even better community. I guess the time has come for me to drop my dream. I feel like my heart's broken now. No one at CCP has said that Nova will not have vehicles, ever. Rattati did say that they likely won't be there at initial release. Consider that on Dust's release, suits did not have all 4 races for each. That was added later. Nova, much like EVE, will be a persistent game.The game you see at release, should it release, will not be quite the same game you see one or several years after. Try to keep some perspective. But it had vehicles..I don't blame ccp but don't expect vehicle users to be as enthusiastic as infantry considering their roll will not be there (till later)
DUST Fiend 19073	Posted - 2017.04.11 21:16:00 - [47] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Well, I've been away from these forums for a long time, well, as an active partaker anyway, though I have been stalking these forums for Nova news ever since it's been a thing. Anyway, if this is true and Nova will not have vehicles, ever, I will not be playing it sadly. I think that for vehicle gameplay Dust filled a void when it came to very customizable vehicles and on top of that it had "great" economy and most certainly even better community. I guess the time has come for me to drop my dream. I feel like my heart's broken now. No one at CCP has said that Nova will not have vehicles, ever. Rattati did say that they likely won't be there at initial release. Consider that on Dust's release, suits did not have all 4 races for each. That was added later. Nova, much like EVE, will be a persistent game.The game you see at release, should it release, will not be quite the same game you see one or several years after. Try to keep some perspective. For perspective, if you prefer infantry try looking at it like most information shows you will be waiting a few years after release in a few years to get the first itteration of infantry combat. All you have till then is vehicles. Would infantry players be thrilled to wait? Old DUST Fan Fiction
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17058	Posted - 2017.04.11 21:21:00 - [48] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Well, I've been away from these forums for a long time, well, as an active partaker anyway, though I have been stalking these forums for Nova news ever since it's been a thing. Anyway, if this is true and Nova will not have vehicles, ever, I will not be playing it sadly. I think that for vehicle gameplay Dust filled a void when it came to very customizable vehicles and on top of that it had "great" economy and most certainly even better community. I guess the time has come for me to drop my dream. I feel like my heart's broken now. No one at CCP has said that Nova will not have vehicles, ever. Rattati did say that they likely won't be there at initial release. Consider that on Dust's release, suits did not have all 4 races for each. That was added later. Nova, much like EVE, will be a persistent game.The game you see at release, should it release, will not be quite the same game you see one or several years after. Try to keep some perspective. But it had vehicles..I don't blame ccp but don't expect vehicle users to be as enthusiastic as infantry considering their roll will not be there (till later) I can totally see being disappointed, especially for someone like Dust Fiend who almost exclusively piloted vehicles or played AV. I just think it is extreme to say that it will never happen, and that you should just stop dreaming about playing vehicles. Frankly, if Nova is to ever have vehicles, the community NEEDS to have these guys around to lend their perspective and feedback. Especially if there are facets of Nova that they see may prevent vehicle adoption later. It won't help any if they just totally give up because they may have to wait longer. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17058	Posted - 2017.04.11 21:22:00 - [49] - Quote ^^^^^^^ DUST Fiend wrote: One Eyed King wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Well, I've been away from these forums for a long time, well, as an active partaker anyway, though I have been stalking these forums for Nova news ever since it's been a thing. Anyway, if this is true and Nova will not have vehicles, ever, I will not be playing it sadly. I think that for vehicle gameplay Dust filled a void when it came to very customizable vehicles and on top of that it had "great" economy and most certainly even better community. I guess the time has come for me to drop my dream. I feel like my heart's broken now. No one at CCP has said that Nova will not have vehicles, ever. Rattati did say that they likely won't be there at initial release. Consider that on Dust's release, suits did not have all 4 races for each. That was added later. Nova, much like EVE, will be a persistent game.The game you see at release, should it release, will not be quite the same game you see one or several years after. Try to keep some perspective. For perspective, if you prefer infantry try looking at it like most information shows you will be waiting a few years after release in a few years to get the first itteration of infantry combat. All you have till then is vehicles. Would infantry players be thrilled to wait? Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DUST Fiend 19074	Posted - 2017.04.11 21:24:00 - [50] - Quote I'm mostly at peace with it now, but I'll always be a rage flavored bitter vet at this point. Old DUST Fan Fiction

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7495	Posted - 2017.04.11 21:36:00 - [51] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm mostly at peace with it now, but I'll always be a rage flavored bitter vet at this point. Im not thrilled but ill give it a shot if I'm not feeling it then I won't wait ill just have to play the stupid game of irl
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1207	Posted - 2017.04.11 22:03:00 - [52] - Quote it's like when they announced they were going to create more star wars movies, I'm stoked, but if you fail to capture the same spirit you end up with The Phantom Menace rather than The Force Awakens. The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1136	Posted - 2017.04.12 03:42:00 - [53] - Quote Well, I was going by the information in the OP. Anyway, if they won't have content for me who doesn't care that much about infantry combat (except for MGO2 and Rust) shortly after launch then I won't stay around and wait because it's not the game that I used to love and hate, there would probably only be hate left. There would be no point for me to keep playing a game that I don't like just for the hope of one day having vehicles, and if I (and others) don't play and vehicles do get released some day, then any vehicle pilot coming back at that point (could be just me) would be far behind any infantry veteran in SP at that point. Oh and about Star Wars, call me crazy (no, not that stupid song from way back when things still looked bright) but I actually liked Phantom Menace and the other prequels way more than The Force Awakens. Maybe it has something to do with having gotten over all the Star Wars hype of my youth but I will probably never rewatch TFA, not anytime soon anyway.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1210	Posted - 2017.04.12 05:08:00 - [54] - Quote From my point of view it is JJ Abrams who is evil! We were talking in discord earlier that it would make sense to create a separate SP pool for vehicles only, this would mean you are no longer forced to pick between a new suit or quicker turret rotation and therefore are not gimped if it's a non vehicle map The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7499	Posted - 2017.04.12 06:06:00 - [55] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: From my point of view it is JJ Abrams who is evil! We were talking in discord earlier that it would make sense to create a separate SP pool for vehicles only, this would mean you are no longer forced to pick between a new suit or quicker turret rotation and therefore are not gimped if it's a non vehicle map They could just back out of certain maps, i mean if you play vehicles odds are you're not going to want to play infantry..Im sure we can figure something out we have plenty of time =ƒì+ Also i don't like seperate sp, a no life could max vehicles and dropsuits instead of choosing one to max first..i prefer dedicated roles an being able to switch it up but i shouldn't have proto tanks and dropsuits within a year..one of them yeah but not both (Idk how your sp pool would work)
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1138	Posted - 2017.04.12 06:21:00 - [56] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Juno Tristan wrote: From my point of view it is JJ Abrams who is evil! We were talking in discord earlier that it would make sense to create a separate SP pool for vehicles only, this would mean you are no longer forced to pick between a new suit or quicker turret rotation and therefore are not gimped if it's a non vehicle map They could just back out of certain maps, i mean if you play vehicles odds are you're not going to want to play infantry..Im sure we can figure something out we have plenty of time =ƒì+ Also i don't like seperate sp, a no life could max vehicles and dropsuits instead of choosing one to max first..i prefer dedicated roles an being able to switch it up but i shouldn't have proto tanks and dropsuits within a year..one of them yeah but not both (Idk how your sp pool would work) About that, I think that infantry only maps should be only included in infantry only game modes. And competitive game modes like PC (if there will be anything of the sort) should include all roles. Maybe there could be some sort of incentive for infantry to play pub matches in game modes that have all roles? I agree about not having separate SP, I think your own personal choices should define what your role is at least until you simply have enough SP to put it into pretty much everything. And vehicles do indeed need better purpose besides just slaying, I think modern Battlefield games have done vehicle roles really nicely, but I guess Nova won't have destructible environment, not fully anyway, but there could be some kind of gates, walls, barricades etc that can be destroyed with vehicles and explosives. Normal dropships would have a much clearer purpose if the distances between objectives and distance from initial spawns to closest objective would be long enough (in all roles maps). But all of this seems like a pointless conversation if the devs don't want vehicles in the game.
BigStuarty Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 199	Posted - 2017.04.12 09:06:00 - [57] - Quote Wow lots of reading and enthusiasm.. Where have you all been! A couple of observations on my part. Let CCP get the fps mechanics correct. Let the game evolve. I'm sure vehicles will be introduced when and where correct.Remember the evolvement of Dust. Even from closed Beta to Warlords it became a different game. The main thing CCP want is back to the beginning and to get it right. I would say to all the tankers and ads is patience your time will come and we shall one day again feel your rage.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1138	Posted - 2017.04.12 11:04:00 - [58] - Quote BigStuarty wrote: Wow lots of reading and enthusiasm.. Where have you all been! A couple of observations on my part. Let CCP get the fps mechanics correct. Let the game evolve. I'm sure vehicles will be introduced when and where correct.Remember the evolvement of Dust. Even from closed Beta to Warlords it became a different game. The main thing CCP want is back to the beginning and to get it right. I would say to all the tankers and ads is patience your time will come and we shall one day again feel your rage. I appreciate the thought, however there a few problems that come to mind, most (if not all) of them have been mentioned here already. First of all if you don't include vehicles in the initial full release then they will be much harder to balance into the game later on. And if vehicles are not included in any form during the beta testing then most likely dedicated vehicle pilots will not be sticking around after the full release of the game because they have nothing to do. The biggest problem however would be that if the devs go with the approach stated in the OP, that vehicles will simply be "dumb" assets that you won't be skilling into nor will you be fitting them yourself then no self respecting vehicle pilot will want to play this game. The reason that I didn't play BF1 for more than a few hours and instead went back to BF4 is the way they handled the vehicles. They went from minimal customization to no customization and bad spawning system to ridiculous spawning system, it's frustrating enough having to wait spamming that vehicle spawn button and then when it actually spawns you'll get a bug and you spawn elsewhere and someone else gets that vehicle before you and then you just gotta suicide and start waiting again. Naaah, that wasn't bad enough, they had to make it so that you again have to spam that vehicle spawn button and then when one finally spawns you'll get either: A) Spawned into it without being able to change the preset loadout of that vehicle, because you have to change the loadout when there are free vehicles available and if you take too long changing the loadout then someone else will have already taken that vehicle (and since you spammed that button you won't get the option to go to loadouts anyway) B) Watch as that vehicle becomes available as you are spamming that button, watch as another one of them is available and then still watch as they are both gone and you'll still have to wait. At least with BF4 you could just go change your vehicle fittings while you are waiting but in BF1 they thought that it'd be stupid to let you utilize that time which you are spending waiting for the spawn. I was very hyped for BF1 tanks before release, I was like "Yay! FINALLY We get actual teamwork tanks and other vehicles!" and then the truth was that while we got these teamwork vehicles it was insanely hard to get into one and when you finally got into one then you would just quite easily get killed by the Assault class which happens to be the go-to class for infantry slaying and vehicle destroying alike. So that class got very good solo firepower against tanks without sacrificing any of their firepower against infantry. So it basically resulted in getting stomped by 3-10 assaults at the same time when simply one of them was enough to destroy a full 6-man tank, all the while they could easily defend themselves against other infantry. And that was called balance.
DUST Fiend 19087	Posted - 2017.04.12 11:51:00 - [59] - Quote Imbalance was almost a good thing in DUST. I feel like you cant have a customizable market driven shooter thats also totally balanced. Better matchmaking would certainly help but you had to change your playstyle to adapt to the situation. If i start the match with my AV Incubus and scare away all vehicles, i switch to missile python until AV becomes too strong then I switch infantry if its that bad, or perhaps to my Tank to draw AV closer to my infantry. If i see the entire team is decked out in great gear, i can choose to try and make them pay for it by putting on my sunday best, or trolling them in free suits. If i see the enemy team stacked with tanks and i cant break their line with my AV Incubus i load up my LAV with boom booms and go for the hug, or sneak around with my scout and lay traps for them or ambush them. I fear Nova will lose most if not all of this dynamic, allowing everyone to be their own personal rambo and taking any thought left in the game out of the game. Rage flavored bitter berry
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8073	Posted - 2017.04.12 19:09:00 - [60] - Quote What? No Nova/Valkyrie link? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1413	Posted - 2017.04.12 19:18:00 - [61] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Imbalance was almost a good thing in DUST. I feel like you cant have a customizable market driven shooter thats also totally balanced. Better matchmaking would certainly help but you had to change your playstyle to adapt to the situation. If i start the match with my AV Incubus and scare away all vehicles, i switch to missile python until AV becomes too strong then I switch infantry if its that bad, or perhaps to my Tank to draw AV closer to my infantry. If i see the entire team is decked out in great gear, i can choose to try and make them pay for it by putting on my sunday best, or trolling them in free suits. If i see the enemy team stacked with tanks and i cant break their line with my AV Incubus i load up my LAV with boom booms and go for the hug, or sneak around with my scout and lay traps for them or ambush them. I fear Nova will lose most if not all of this dynamic, allowing everyone to be their own personal rambo and taking any thought left in the game out of the game. "Balance" aka endless buffing and nerfing of everything in sight, is artificial and should be avoided, particularly the nerfing. That's not the way things really work. Nothing ever gets nerfed in real life. The only thing that comes close to nerfing is something like discovering that after a time, some unforeseen weakness or fatigue or buildup of some problem over a very long time occurs. This could also be the basis of the addition of a new skill that needs to be trained to deal with the newly discovered problem. Other than that everything should always be getting marginally buffed, incrementally over time, not in sudden steps unless with the introduction of a radical new feature which needs skills to manage it.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17061	Posted - 2017.04.12 19:50:00 - [62] - Quote Imbalance is bad. Sure, if you are talking real life, you don't want to fight a war on an even playing field. Games aren't real life, they are entertainment. Unbalanced games fail because fewer people are having fun than are frustrated. Part of the reason Dust failed was due to its inability to retain players, which was at least in part due to imbalance. I hated my Scout being OP even more than I hated early on when it was difficult. What good would it be to finally have vehicles if your dropship full of gunners could easily be taken out by a single militia swarm so far out that you couldn't even see him or have a chance to evade? You wouldn't play that, nor should you be expected to. Let's not kid ourselves and expect Nova to exist and thrive without balance. And if occasional nerfs and buffs are needed, so be it. The good thing about Nova being on PC is that they can have test servers to try things out before they release to everyone. Maybe that way we can avoid some of the more extreme nerfs/buffs that resulted in OP/UP items doing a 180. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DUST Fiend 19092	Posted - 2017.04.12 19:56:00 - [63] - Quote All I'm saying is that generally when you seek a finely tuned balance in a game, it comes at the expense of additional features and playstyles, at least in an FPS. There were lots of imbalances in DUST, but most of the player frustration came from bad matchmaking, bugs, and an abundance of stupidity. If you want a game that's neatly balanced, you should expect a more generic game with less customization and moving parts. Especially from a fairly small team, unless CCP secretly filled up the Nova crew while no one was looking. Rage flavored bitter berry
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17062	Posted - 2017.04.12 20:07:00 - [64] - Quote I think you are right in that balance can't be perfect and can be good enough, but some of the problems, especially with match making were, small player numbers and it was too late ate that point to do anything. Especially with a new generation of consoles starting and players migrating to those. It is a positive step IMO that they scrapped Legion with all its porting of Dust bugs and that they started over. All they really need is for Nova to have a good enough start to keep people and build upon. We'll see if that can happen I guess. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DUST Fiend 19093	Posted - 2017.04.12 20:21:00 - [65] - Quote It's far too early still to speculate one way or the other, I'll always be a bitter vet and may very well not even get into Nova if its scale is too small, but I don't want to sit here screaming at shadows. We'll just have to wait and see what ends up happening. All I know is if you played DUST for vehicles, you aren't welcome in Nova, not for quite some time anyways. Rage flavored bitter berry
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1415	Posted - 2017.04.13 19:12:00 - [66] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: It's far too early still to speculate one way or the other, I'll always be a bitter vet and may very well not even get into Nova if its scale is too small, but I don't want to sit here screaming at shadows. We'll just have to wait and see what ends up happening. All I know is if you played DUST for vehicles, you aren't welcome in Nova, not for quite some time anyways. DUST Fiend, looking at your start date (Vets Assemble thread) you and I are membersboth part of the company of players from EvE who were invited to play Dust at some point before general release to the public. I think it's these people who genuinely understand not only the significance but also the absolute importance of the game being BIG. OK, so they want to primarily make it a FPS, but to add limitations to the game will be to hobble it and restrict it from being all it can be. Limitations such as: - Lobby shooter - "Maps" - Artificial clone limits - Regional battle servers - No vehicles - No true interaction with the rest of New Eden There are probably a heap more, and my feeling is that most if not all of these limitations (above) are already slated for Nova. I probably won't bother playing it if it is too "artificial" (nb. not EvE-like enough).
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1415	Posted - 2017.04.13 19:17:00 - [67] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Imbalance is bad. Sure, if you are talking real life, you don't want to fight a war on an even playing field. Games aren't real life, they are entertainment. Unbalanced games fail because fewer people are having fun than are frustrated. Part of the reason Dust failed was due to its inability to retain players, which was at least in part due to imbalance. I hated my Scout being OP even more than I hated early on when it was difficult. What good would it be to finally have vehicles if your dropship full of gunners could easily be taken out by a single militia swarm so far out that you couldn't even see him or have a chance to evade? You wouldn't play that, nor should you be expected to. Let's not kid ourselves and expect Nova to exist and thrive without balance. And if occasional nerfs and buffs are needed, so be it. The good thing about Nova being on PC is that they can have test servers to try things out before they release to everyone. Maybe that way we can avoid some of the more extreme nerfs/buffs that resulted in OP/UP items doing a 180. No, imbalance is good. Your words are those of someone who doesn't understand the single most important thing about New Eden - it IS real life for those who live there. The whole point of EvE in the first place was to be as real as possible, but then they started this buff/nerf cycle which is so disruptive in EvE as well as it was in Dust. At some point, I hope they will still stop that cycle, and go to a more moderate approach of continual small incremental improvements but they should NEVER strive for "balance". FOTM should always be a moving target, so that FOTM-followers always have to be moving onto newer fits, but non-FOTM players shouldn't suddenly have their favourite fits made useless because of some stupid nerf that hobbles it.
MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1141	Posted - 2017.04.14 09:24:00 - [68] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Imbalance is bad. Sure, if you are talking real life, you don't want to fight a war on an even playing field. Games aren't real life, they are entertainment. Unbalanced games fail because fewer people are having fun than are frustrated. Part of the reason Dust failed was due to its inability to retain players, which was at least in part due to imbalance. I hated my Scout being OP even more than I hated early on when it was difficult. What good would it be to finally have vehicles if your dropship full of gunners could easily be taken out by a single militia swarm so far out that you couldn't even see him or have a chance to evade? You wouldn't play that, nor should you be expected to. Let's not kid ourselves and expect Nova to exist and thrive without balance. And if occasional nerfs and buffs are needed, so be it. The good thing about Nova being on PC is that they can have test servers to try things out before they release to everyone. Maybe that way we can avoid some of the more extreme nerfs/buffs that resulted in OP/UP items doing a 180. No, imbalance is good. Your words are those of someone who doesn't understand the single most important thing about New Eden - it IS real life for those who live there. The whole point of EvE in the first place was to be as real as possible, but then they started this buff/nerf cycle which is so disruptive in EvE as well as it was in Dust. At some point, I hope they will still stop that cycle, and go to a more moderate approach of continual small incremental improvements but they should NEVER strive for "balance". FOTM should always be a moving target, so that FOTM-followers always have to be moving onto newer fits, but non-FOTM players shouldn't suddenly have their favourite fits made useless because of some stupid nerf that hobbles it. Well, I'm not a player that came to Dust from EVE, but to me one of the most intiguing aspects of Dust battles was the feel of escalation. The match may have started out small with everyone using relatively rubbish stuff and then someone brings in something more powerful than others have and after that someone brings in something even more powerful to "counter" that and so on until everyone and their mothers are competing to bring in the strongest stuff available. And because everything had a price it was quite satisfying to get kills and you could feel the blow if you died, especially as a vehicle pilot. I fear Nova will not be able to capture this feel either if they are going too small and for too much balance.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1421	Posted - 2017.04.14 09:46:00 - [69] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Imbalance is bad. Sure, if you are talking real life, you don't want to fight a war on an even playing field. Games aren't real life, they are entertainment. Unbalanced games fail because fewer people are having fun than are frustrated. Part of the reason Dust failed was due to its inability to retain players, which was at least in part due to imbalance. I hated my Scout being OP even more than I hated early on when it was difficult. What good would it be to finally have vehicles if your dropship full of gunners could easily be taken out by a single militia swarm so far out that you couldn't even see him or have a chance to evade? You wouldn't play that, nor should you be expected to. Let's not kid ourselves and expect Nova to exist and thrive without balance. And if occasional nerfs and buffs are needed, so be it. The good thing about Nova being on PC is that they can have test servers to try things out before they release to everyone. Maybe that way we can avoid some of the more extreme nerfs/buffs that resulted in OP/UP items doing a 180. No, imbalance is good. Your words are those of someone who doesn't understand the single most important thing about New Eden - it IS real life for those who live there. The whole point of EvE in the first place was to be as real as possible, but then they started this buff/nerf cycle which is so disruptive in EvE as well as it was in Dust. At some point, I hope they will still stop that cycle, and go to a more moderate approach of continual small incremental improvements but they should NEVER strive for "balance". FOTM should always be a moving target, so that FOTM-followers always have to be moving onto newer fits, but non-FOTM players shouldn't suddenly have their favourite fits made useless because of some stupid nerf that hobbles it. Well, I'm not a player that came to Dust from EVE, but to me one of the most intiguing aspects of Dust battles was the feel of escalation. The match may have started out small with everyone using relatively rubbish stuff and then someone brings in something more powerful than others have and after that someone brings in something even more powerful to "counter" that and so on until everyone and their mothers are competing to bring in the strongest stuff available. And because everything had a price it was quite satisfying to get kills and you could feel the blow if you died, especially as a vehicle pilot. I fear Nova will not be able to capture this feel either if they are going too small and for too much balance. Good points. Escalation was the practical outcome of the complexity in the game. EvE is a tremendously complex game. In comparison, Dust with its skill tree was almost laughably simple, but was still more complex than most games out there. To me the skill tree was dumbed down, in comparison to that of EvE. Things like the lack of a capacitor, for instance, presumably because people wouldn't know how to use it, dumbed the game down. A capacitor for the record is a store of energy from the power grid, to be released in sudden bursts for one purpose or another. In EvE it's used for everything from firing railguns, blasters and lasers to powering the warp bubble for traversing solar systems. In Nova, it would be used to power weapons, cloaks, dampeners, etc, everything that "cycles" or needs bursts of energy, rather than just being powered directly from the power grid. If they are serious about producing a truly complex Nova, these are the sorts of things that need to be considered. Based on Dust, I have a low expectation of seeing this, but the fact they want to do it right, and are moving to the PC, for something that looks like they are going to make a game that's better than the original, gives me hope.
MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1142	Posted - 2017.04.14 21:39:00 - [70] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Imbalance is bad. Sure, if you are talking real life, you don't want to fight a war on an even playing field. Games aren't real life, they are entertainment. Unbalanced games fail because fewer people are having fun than are frustrated. Part of the reason Dust failed was due to its inability to retain players, which was at least in part due to imbalance. I hated my Scout being OP even more than I hated early on when it was difficult. What good would it be to finally have vehicles if your dropship full of gunners could easily be taken out by a single militia swarm so far out that you couldn't even see him or have a chance to evade? You wouldn't play that, nor should you be expected to. Let's not kid ourselves and expect Nova to exist and thrive without balance. And if occasional nerfs and buffs are needed, so be it. The good thing about Nova being on PC is that they can have test servers to try things out before they release to everyone. Maybe that way we can avoid some of the more extreme nerfs/buffs that resulted in OP/UP items doing a 180. No, imbalance is good. Your words are those of someone who doesn't understand the single most important thing about New Eden - it IS real life for those who live there. The whole point of EvE in the first place was to be as real as possible, but then they started this buff/nerf cycle which is so disruptive in EvE as well as it was in Dust. At some point, I hope they will still stop that cycle, and go to a more moderate approach of continual small incremental improvements but they should NEVER strive for "balance". FOTM should always be a moving target, so that FOTM-followers always have to be moving onto newer fits, but non-FOTM players shouldn't suddenly have their favourite fits made useless because of some stupid nerf that hobbles it. Well, I'm not a player that came to Dust from EVE, but to me one of the most intiguing aspects of Dust battles was the feel of escalation. The match may have started out small with everyone using relatively rubbish stuff and then someone brings in something more powerful than others have and after that someone brings in something even more powerful to "counter" that and so on until everyone and their mothers are competing to bring in the strongest stuff available. And because everything had a price it was quite satisfying to get kills and you could feel the blow if you died, especially as a vehicle pilot. I fear Nova will not be able to capture this feel either if they are going too small and for too much balance. Good points. Escalation was the practical outcome of the complexity in the game. EvE is a tremendously complex game. In comparison, Dust with its skill tree was almost laughably simple, but was still more complex than most games out there. To me the skill tree was dumbed down, in comparison to that of EvE. Things like the lack of a capacitor, for instance, presumably because people wouldn't know how to use it, dumbed the game down. A capacitor for the record is a store of energy from the power grid, to be released in sudden bursts for one purpose or another. In EvE it's used for everything from firing railguns, blasters and lasers to powering the warp bubble for traversing solar systems. In Nova, it would be used to power weapons, cloaks, dampeners, etc, everything that "cycles" or needs bursts of energy, rather than just being powered directly from the power grid. If they are serious about producing a truly complex Nova, these are the sorts of things that need to be considered. Based on Dust, I have a low expectation of seeing this, but the fact they want to do it right, and are moving to the PC, for something that looks like they are going to make a game that's better than the original, gives me hope. Hmm, I've tried to get into EVE but it simply requires way more time to learn it than I have time on my hands, maybe one day, maybe. These basic mechanics that could also be used in an FPS game are not really the most time consuming to get the grasp of so I don't see why they couldn't be implemented into Nova. I always wanted to have capacitors in Dust, especially for vehicles. It would have solved so many problems with vehicles at any point in the game. Instead of having seperate durations and cooldowns for each module, you could just use whatever you want for as long as you have power remaining. You wouldn't have seen so much hardener stacking and what not that were a huge issue with vehicles. Among other things, of course.

Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7502	Posted - 2017.04.14 22:16:00 - [71] - Quote Vehicles were imbalanced but assaults weren't balanced till after the game died...logi 514/scout514/heavy514 My point is that vehicles weren't the only imbalance in the game..I still believe vehicles should be implemented sometime during closed beta..the imbalances will be there but I think the sooner we find them the better Oh well, we'll see how it plays out
Regnier Feros Pielords 1217	Posted - 2017.04.15 06:04:00 - [72] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Vehicles were imbalanced but assaults weren't balanced till after the game died...logi 514/scout514/heavy514 My point is that vehicles weren't the only imbalance in the game..I still believe vehicles should be implemented sometime during closed beta..the imbalances will be there but I think the sooner we find them the better Oh well, we'll see how it plays out Wheelchair514 <3 I LIKE PIE
BigStuarty Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 205	Posted - 2017.04.15 07:15:00 - [73] - Quote My Amarr Logi was OP. A big secret but once I fitted the slots after 2 lousy years I got it. That was the beauty of Dust. Of course there was FOTM but when we got our fav suits right.. We were secretly OP. Maybe one map for vehicles call it a testing ground if you will and no harshness on CCP but maybe constructive criticism both ways. It'll take time
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1849	Posted - 2017.04.15 08:39:00 - [74] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Nothing ever gets nerfed in real life Banks nerf interest on savings... All the time. Catch man-flu, nature has temporarily nerfed you. Bought yourself a VW car recently... It's emission stats totally got nerfed. Transportation nerfs... Public transport never gets buffed, it gets more expensive, but it only ever gets worse. And that big bomb 'Murica dropped, totally nerfed some durka durka tunnels.
MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1143	Posted - 2017.04.15 09:55:00 - [75] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Nothing ever gets nerfed in real life Banks nerf interest on savings... All the time. Catch man-flu, nature has temporarily nerfed you. Bought yourself a VW car recently... It's emission stats totally got nerfed. Transportation nerfs... Public transport never gets buffed, it gets more expensive, but it only ever gets worse. And that big bomb 'Murica dropped, totally nerfed some durka durka tunnels. I'll be the captain obvious here and say that I'm sure he/she meant warfare. Stuff gets "banned" but never nerfed, or maybe it does, idk.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2742	Posted - 2017.04.15 09:58:00 - [76] - Quote I just hope that they will experiment with vehicles at some point. Though I've spent a fair bit of my time in a tank, I'd much rather see dropships first. Playing as infantry is fun, but it gets stale after some time. Vehicles give you variance. Especially DS. Taking high ground in Dust was part of the strategy. Easily countered but giving huge benefits if maintained. As infantry.. what is there to pick. A scout, I guess, would give me the most fun. Or an assault with ScR (no other gun was as fun) Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1424	Posted - 2017.04.15 15:33:00 - [77] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Nothing ever gets nerfed in real life Banks nerf interest on savings... All the time. Catch man-flu, nature has temporarily nerfed you. Bought yourself a VW car recently... It's emission stats totally got nerfed. Transportation nerfs... Public transport never gets buffed, it gets more expensive, but it only ever gets worse. And that big bomb 'Murica dropped, totally nerfed some durka durka tunnels. It depends on what you call "nerf". Your examples are all artificial, the subject of either falsehoods or false economy of some sort. Nerf, in my context is voluntarily choosing to hobble your own weapons or equipment for some reason (altruism?), while others are free to make revolutionary improvements to their own. THAT doesn't happen in real life. Noone CHOOSES to hobble their own weapons or equipment. If it's too powerful for some reason, they choose something less powerful, they don't deliberately make it less powerful. Yet that is precisely what we are meant to believe happens when CCP nerfs a weapon, or module, ship or suit. I stick with my statement, under this definition of "nerf". Nerfing doesn't happen in real life. Everything is ALWAYS incrementally improved, usually as a response to the enemy having incrementally improved their own version of whatever we're talking about. Noone deliberately hobbles their own equipment, and so it should be that nerfing is NOT a development strategy for CCP. It always has been and always will be too disruptive. "Balancing" as a whole is a misguided and nerf/buff specificly is far too much of a sledgehammer approach.
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1424	Posted - 2017.04.15 15:35:00 - [78] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Nothing ever gets nerfed in real life Banks nerf interest on savings... All the time. Catch man-flu, nature has temporarily nerfed you. Bought yourself a VW car recently... It's emission stats totally got nerfed. Transportation nerfs... Public transport never gets buffed, it gets more expensive, but it only ever gets worse. And that big bomb 'Murica dropped, totally nerfed some durka durka tunnels. I'll be the captain obvious here and say that I'm sure he/she meant warfare. Stuff gets "banned" but never nerfed, or maybe it does, idk. He. I almost always play female characters. And exactly my point.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1852	Posted - 2017.04.16 00:57:00 - [79] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Alena said... Something Derpty happened... THAT doesn't happen in real life. Noone CHOOSES to hobble their own weapons or equipment. If it's too powerful for some reason, they choose something less powerful, they don't deliberately make it less powerful. Yet that is precisely what we are meant to believe happens when CCP nerfs a weapon, or module, ship or suit. True, true... But in the real world example who is CCP? It's not like Galente got together and said "Bro, these scrubs are going down too easy, lets make our tank only move forwards and backwards like a tonka toy, to try and make things more interesting." Obviously if the factions had the power of CCP we'd have a sniper-shotgun-HMG hybrid that makes redline warfare super fun... And if 'Murica had the same powers someone would have hit alt-f4 on life by now.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2387	Posted - 2017.04.16 06:06:00 - [80] - Quote My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. "I hope we don't have vehicles [in Nova] simply so we don't have to deal with the people who drive them." -Ripley Riley

Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1428	Posted - 2017.04.16 08:14:00 - [81] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Alena said... Something Derpty happened... THAT doesn't happen in real life. Noone CHOOSES to hobble their own weapons or equipment. If it's too powerful for some reason, they choose something less powerful, they don't deliberately make it less powerful. Yet that is precisely what we are meant to believe happens when CCP nerfs a weapon, or module, ship or suit. True, true... But in the real world example who is CCP? It's not like Galente got together and said "Bro, these scrubs are going down too easy, lets make our tank only move forwards and backwards like a tonka toy, to try and make things more interesting." Obviously if the factions had the power of CCP we'd have a sniper-shotgun-HMG hybrid that makes redline warfare super fun... And if 'Murica had the same powers someone would have hit alt-f4 on life by now. The point of realism, is that CCP in the attempt to produce such realism should not do anything that isn't something Gallente would choose to do (or any other race/faction for that matter)
MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1145	Posted - 2017.04.16 13:29:00 - [82] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. There are plenty of futuristic lobby shooters already without vehicles, so why not go play one of those if you don't like vehicles or the people who like them? Because that's what Nova would be without vehicles, just another futuristic lobby shooter. I can't think of a more boring FPS than a futuristic one without vehicles. All that technology and still not advanced enough to use vehicles for warfare? Seriously?
Echo 1991 warravens Imperium Eden 1330	Posted - 2017.04.16 13:40:00 - [83] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. Stupid hardener stacking ruined the fun, not vehicles. Vehicles should be in the game at some point and a balance between AV and vehicles needs to be made early. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
DUST Fiend 19114	Posted - 2017.04.16 14:10:00 - [84] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for bad players anyways. Fixed that for ya Rage flavored bitter berry
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1852	Posted - 2017.04.16 19:22:00 - [85] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: Alena said... Something Derpty happened... THAT doesn't happen in real life. Noone CHOOSES to hobble their own weapons or equipment. If it's too powerful for some reason, they choose something less powerful, they don't deliberately make it less powerful. Yet that is precisely what we are meant to believe happens when CCP nerfs a weapon, or module, ship or suit. True, true... But in the real world example who is CCP? It's not like Galente got together and said "Bro, these scrubs are going down too easy, lets make our tank only move forwards and backwards like a tonka toy, to try and make things more interesting." Obviously if the factions had the power of CCP we'd have a sniper-shotgun-HMG hybrid that makes redline warfare super fun... And if 'Murica had the same powers someone would have hit alt-f4 on life by now. The point of realism, is that CCP in the attempt to produce such realism should not do anything that isn't something Gallente would choose to do (or any other race/faction for that matter) Then they shouldn't develop a game? O.o
Alena Asakura Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 1431	Posted - 2017.04.17 00:39:00 - [86] - Quote B Derpty Derp wrote: Alena Asakura wrote: The point of realism, is that CCP in the attempt to produce such realism should not do anything that isn't something Gallente would choose to do (or any other race/faction for that matter) Then they shouldn't develop a game? O.o Basicly, in your terms, no, they shouldn't. In my terms, a game can be as close to real as they want to make it and that's what they've striven for with EvE, with people able to basicly live their whole lives online if they want. Yes, it's stylised and we obviously don't have the space travel like New Eden does yet, but within those bounds people can basicly spend their whole lives there. From that perspective, what can be needs to be as real as possible, including imbalances because one race got ahead of another in some technology. That will be countered of course, with improvements in some counter technology, but none of it is ever "balanced" as such - it's more of a leap-frog/catch-up thing. That's what I believe CCP should be aiming for with this "game".
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation 3943	Posted - 2017.04.17 03:52:00 - [87] - Quote The more I know about Nova the more I fear it is going to be a Call of Duty : New Eden. It will be even harder to balance the whole game if they'll ever decide to put vehicles later and this is why I believe that if they're not at least planning vehicles there will simply never be vehicles. Now, if you take Dust and throw away large and open combat scenarios, MCC and all the vehicles...what's left? A lobby shooter where you can upgrade your things. I'm not sure I would like it to be honest. take time or take aurums (Gò»#-_-)Gò»~~~GòºGòÉGòº [FSTNM SCDNM] #PortDust514
The Noob Destroyer 1620	Posted - 2017.04.17 03:54:00 - [88] - Quote "Played Alpha, game was mehh" - Jolly CCP keeping up traditions! The Community; One big family, sometimes dysfunctional.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17074	Posted - 2017.04.17 04:06:00 - [89] - Quote The Noob Destroyer wrote: "Played Alpha, game was mehh" - Jolly CCP keeping up traditions! He was talking about Drawn to Death unless I am mistaken. J0LLY R0G3R wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Shotty GoBang wrote: One Eyed King wrote: So, I have tried the new Drawn to Death FPS. I have not gotten further than a tutorial and one match, so I am going to give it more of a try, but so far it seems like it will end up being mediocre at best. I mean, the game is 2 vs 2. That just seems too small to me, but I will see if there is some fun to be had. neat intro video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RTpr74MFqk might have to check that one out. looks like its currently free for PS+ subscribers. is 3rd person view forced or can you switch to 1st? edit: interesting spawn system: https://youtu.be/Ytt2lWMr-nc?t=97 Stuck in 3rd person. Spawn system was kind of cool, but the whole shooting mechanics felt clunky and unsmooth. Kind of reminds me of the shooting mechanics in No Man's Sky, except that at least that game wasn't solely/primarily intended as a shooter. Got into the close alpha or whatever they called it, game was ehh. Liked the style though. Currently getting wrecked on King of the Kill and Battlegrounds. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3149067#post3149067 Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2388	Posted - 2017.04.17 07:29:00 - [90] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. Stupid hardener stacking ruined the fun, not vehicles. Vehicles should be in the game at some point and a balance between AV and vehicles needs to be made early. They never found out how to balance them though. Better off without them if they don't fit in the game. As far as the " play another game / you're just bad / salt salt salt" comments, I can't believe people are still so butthurt about Dust. My signature still hold true then. "I hope we don't have vehicles [in Nova] simply so we don't have to deal with the people who drive them." -Ripley Riley

MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1145	Posted - 2017.04.17 11:27:00 - [91] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. Stupid hardener stacking ruined the fun, not vehicles. Vehicles should be in the game at some point and a balance between AV and vehicles needs to be made early. They never found out how to balance them though. Better off without them if they don't fit in the game. As far as the " play another game / you're just bad / salt salt salt" comments, I can't believe people are still so butthurt about Dust. My signature still hold true then. They actually had them "balanced" pretty nicely in the earlier days, it was the complete vehicle overhaul that made vehicles so incredibly broken in Dust. I'm not sure if you are trolling or not but it is so arrogant of you vehicle haters to come and play a game that has vehicles and then say that vehicles should be thrown out of the game. So if they are creating Dust again from the ground up and calling it Nova, it really should have most of the aspects of Dust. If you don't like vehicles then why did you play a game that had vehicles when there were and still are plenty of games out there without vehicles?
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1331	Posted - 2017.04.17 14:21:00 - [92] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. Stupid hardener stacking ruined the fun, not vehicles. Vehicles should be in the game at some point and a balance between AV and vehicles needs to be made early. They never found out how to balance them though. Better off without them if they don't fit in the game. As far as the " play another game / you're just bad / salt salt salt" comments, I can't believe people are still so butthurt about Dust. My signature still hold true then. The balance was getting there. When the patch/hotfix came out and they nerfed the swarm launcher. All that was needed after that was slight changes, but theyGÇï made stupid hardeners and reps passive. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
DUST Fiend 19114	Posted - 2017.04.17 15:28:00 - [93] - Quote The "waves of opportunity" philosophy they added in mixed with the redline and just made for crappy gameplay on both sides. Active reps were the way to go, and pushing the redline further back / removing it all together were what was needed. Rage flavored bitter berry
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3253	Posted - 2017.04.17 16:06:00 - [94] - Quote So, there making call of duty in space instead pf legion? Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C LONG LIVE HELIX!!!!!!!!!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1853	Posted - 2017.04.17 19:01:00 - [95] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: The "waves of opportunity" philosophy they added in mixed with the redline and just made for crappy gameplay on both sides. Active reps were the way to go, and pushing the redline further back / removing it all together were what was needed. I'd like to see something more along the lines of MAG in the approach to vehicles, where only some maps had them, which allowed vehicles on those maps to really flourish and be more interesting... This is also an approach that wont get fooked up by vehicles not being introduced from the start... Can hopefully add things into the map designs to stop roof camping/red zoning as well. But yeah, Dust was ruined towards the end when for some reason the area available to both teams was made tiny on a lot of maps. I'm guessing the idea was to stop people getting pushed so far back into their own redzone that the match was over... But it didn't take into account the opposite problem of people just camping their own redzone because it was a safe way to get kills when the other team got bored of having nothing to do and just ran into the enemy redzone. Alena Asakura wrote: what can be needs to be as real as possible We'll never agree on this, because I don't think balance should ever be based on realism, even in games that aim for realism. And frankly if someone puts in an extra 0 on something, it should be nerfed back into place, rather than adding more things with equally broken stats/machanics to compensate. If the game was designed to include constantly upgrading gear, then sure, add realism by allowing the balance to zig-zag between different groups (although frankly I find the idea boring as I would much rather have some semblance of actual balance in the game, where tactics/strategy and luck mean more than pure stats/OP mechanics.) Out of interest... Instead of nerfing the range of Large Rail Turrets, what would you have added as the next big counter to it? More range to forge guns, would just have made roof camping that much more bastardized. More range to other turrets would just have completely boned infantry while the tanks ignored each other. All I can see is the constant buffing would make the game boring as hell as everyone continued to spam the scrubbiest (and often most boring) tactics until everyone quit playing, because a boring game isn't worth your time, no matter how much you try to "make the game your life."
Heimdallr69 Negative-Feedback. 7514	Posted - 2017.04.17 19:04:00 - [96] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: My signature says enough about my opinion on vehicles. Glad they got rid of them. They were always ruining the fun for everyone else anyways. Stupid hardener stacking ruined the fun, not vehicles. Vehicles should be in the game at some point and a balance between AV and vehicles needs to be made early. They never found out how to balance them though. Better off without them if they don't fit in the game. As far as the " play another game / you're just bad / salt salt salt" comments, I can't believe people are still so butthurt about Dust. My signature still hold true then. Same can be said about dropsuits but you guys prefer cod styled games so no way you'd suggest removing some of them till the first 2 are balanced and weapons while we're at it I've been around for all the imbalances that were in dust
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17075	Posted - 2017.04.17 21:21:00 - [97] - Quote Void Echo wrote: So, there making call of duty in space instead pf legion? Ew, no. After the Nova demo, the feedback that was given was that it was good, but felt bland and it needed more EVE like flavor. Recently, the Nova team has moved back to Iceland just to have more access to the EVE developers. I don't expect Nova to be CoD anymore than Dust was BF. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1217	Posted - 2017.04.18 00:43:00 - [98] - Quote I can't help but think this mess (no vehicles) is entirely due to the Large Blaster Turret and it's anti infantry power. If they'd gone with a Plasma Cannon style turret i don't think people would have complained as much, to get killed by it you'd either have to be unlucky or too damn close The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17075	Posted - 2017.04.18 01:01:00 - [99] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: I can't help but think this mess (no vehicles) is entirely due to the Large Blaster Turret and it's anti infantry power. If they'd gone with a Plasma Cannon style turret i don't think people would have complained as much, to get killed by it you'd either have to be unlucky or too damn close There were a lot of problems. Hardeners, as previously mentioned, and the fact they were passive. Perhaps the speed of turret movement, certainly the inertia (or lack thereof) with speed of the tank. No large tank should be able to get up to speed that quickly, or stop so quickly, IMO. I hope they are at least white boarding these things even if they can't put them in game at release. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3256	Posted - 2017.04.18 02:25:00 - [100] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Void Echo wrote: So, there making call of duty in space instead pf legion? Ew, no. After the Nova demo, the feedback that was given was that it was good, but felt bland and it needed more EVE like flavor. Recently, the Nova team has moved back to Iceland just to have more access to the EVE developers. I don't expect Nova to be CoD anymore than Dust was BF. As long as they make it better than infinite warfare was, im good Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C LONG LIVE HELIX!!!!!!!!!

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17079	Posted - 2017.04.18 02:56:00 - [101] - Quote Void Echo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Void Echo wrote: So, there making call of duty in space instead pf legion? Ew, no. After the Nova demo, the feedback that was given was that it was good, but felt bland and it needed more EVE like flavor. Recently, the Nova team has moved back to Iceland just to have more access to the EVE developers. I don't expect Nova to be CoD anymore than Dust was BF. As long as they make it better than infinite warfare was, im good It is entirely possible the demo already was. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3256	Posted - 2017.04.18 15:44:00 - [102] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Void Echo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Void Echo wrote: So, there making call of duty in space instead pf legion? Ew, no. After the Nova demo, the feedback that was given was that it was good, but felt bland and it needed more EVE like flavor. Recently, the Nova team has moved back to Iceland just to have more access to the EVE developers. I don't expect Nova to be CoD anymore than Dust was BF. As long as they make it better than infinite warfare was, im good It is entirely possible the demo already was. As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C LONG LIVE HELIX!!!!!!!!!
Moorian Flav 615	Posted - 2017.04.18 15:52:00 - [103] - Quote Void Echo wrote: As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver We all know (including CCP) that CCP over hyped and didn't deliver on alot of their promises for DUST. That is why CCP is so reclusive about Project Nova and such negativity is not helping. CCP did have its failing with DUST but at least they are still trying to make a FPS that is unique and great rather than rehashing the same crap FPS game year after year like the big boys. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3258	Posted - 2017.04.18 23:47:00 - [104] - Quote Moorian Flav wrote: Void Echo wrote: As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver We all know (including CCP) that CCP over hyped and didn't deliver on alot of their promises for DUST. That is why CCP is so reclusive about Project Nova and such negativity is not helping. CCP did have its failing with DUST but at least they are still trying to make a FPS that is unique and great rather than rehashing the same crap FPS game year after year like the big boys. Eh. As long as the end result makes cod **** their pants, im good. Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C LONG LIVE HELIX!!!!!!!!!
MarasdF Loron fatal absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1147	Posted - 2017.04.19 05:37:00 - [105] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Moorian Flav wrote: Void Echo wrote: As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver We all know (including CCP) that CCP over hyped and didn't deliver on alot of their promises for DUST. That is why CCP is so reclusive about Project Nova and such negativity is not helping. CCP did have its failing with DUST but at least they are still trying to make a FPS that is unique and great rather than rehashing the same crap FPS game year after year like the big boys. Eh. As long as the end result makes cod **** their pants, im good. You know as well as anyone that it's not going to happen. CoD fanboys only care about CoD, no matter how much better some other game is. Which is one of the reasons I don't understand why game devs try to make their games appealing to the CoD audience. They only hurt themselves as CoD players won't care about that game and neither will those that don't like CoD if it's too CoD-like.
Void Echo Helix Evolution I.W.C 3260	Posted - 2017.04.19 12:59:00 - [106] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Void Echo wrote: Moorian Flav wrote: Void Echo wrote: As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver We all know (including CCP) that CCP over hyped and didn't deliver on alot of their promises for DUST. That is why CCP is so reclusive about Project Nova and such negativity is not helping. CCP did have its failing with DUST but at least they are still trying to make a FPS that is unique and great rather than rehashing the same crap FPS game year after year like the big boys. Eh. As long as the end result makes cod **** their pants, im good. You know as well as anyone that it's not going to happen. CoD fanboys only care about CoD, no matter how much better some other game is. Which is one of the reasons I don't understand why game devs try to make their games appealing to the CoD audience. They only hurt themselves as CoD players won't care about that game and neither will those that don't like CoD if it's too CoD-like. The only reason destiny failed ia because the story writers quit halfway through development. Plus if nova is released on pc only and doesn't gp to ps4 fpr at least 3 years, they might as well not fo to console Closed Beta Vet. Founder of Helix Evolution I.W.C LONG LIVE HELIX!!!!!!!!!
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 4253	Posted - 2017.04.19 13:41:00 - [107] - Quote Void Echo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Void Echo wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Void Echo wrote: So, there making call of duty in space instead pf legion? Ew, no. After the Nova demo, the feedback that was given was that it was good, but felt bland and it needed more EVE like flavor. Recently, the Nova team has moved back to Iceland just to have more access to the EVE developers. I don't expect Nova to be CoD anymore than Dust was BF. As long as they make it better than infinite warfare was, im good It is entirely possible the demo already was. As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver Yup, Dust's first trailer and the end product itself are worlds apart. (hmm, yeah...) #NekosForLife GÄ¥GùÑGû¦GÇ+GÇ+GùÇGùñGÄá When you think about it, no matter how weird it seems at first, nekos are like upgraded humans
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1147	Posted - 2017.04.19 13:49:00 - [108] - Quote Void Echo wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Void Echo wrote: Moorian Flav wrote: Void Echo wrote: As weve all seen from CCP's history. Advertisement and what they show at fanfest is hardly ever what they deliver We all know (including CCP) that CCP over hyped and didn't deliver on alot of their promises for DUST. That is why CCP is so reclusive about Project Nova and such negativity is not helping. CCP did have its failing with DUST but at least they are still trying to make a FPS that is unique and great rather than rehashing the same crap FPS game year after year like the big boys. Eh. As long as the end result makes cod **** their pants, im good. You know as well as anyone that it's not going to happen. CoD fanboys only care about CoD, no matter how much better some other game is. Which is one of the reasons I don't understand why game devs try to make their games appealing to the CoD audience. They only hurt themselves as CoD players won't care about that game and neither will those that don't like CoD if it's too CoD-like. The only reason destiny failed ia because the story writers quit halfway through development. Plus if nova is released on pc only and doesn't gp to ps4 fpr at least 3 years, they might as well not fo to console The only reason? I disagree. Destiny couldn't hold my interest even for 30 mins. I started playing with my friend because he wanted to try that game out but after one play session neither one of us wanted to return to that game, ever. I never could see what people liked about Desitny in the first place.
DUST Fiend 19119	Posted - 2017.04.19 16:08:00 - [109] - Quote Destiny had tight combat mechanics. Very frantic and fun MP. I ultimately turned away from it because there was no matchmaker for vaults and the like. My anxiety makes setting up groups every time I want to run one a total pain in the ass so I dont even bother. I hope they change that in 2 but who knows. If Nova is just infantry than the mechanics have to be up to par with D2 and Overwatch at least. Especially as a PC only game. Rage flavored bitter berry
Juno Tristan Obscure Reference 1217	Posted - 2017.04.19 16:25:00 - [110] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: Yup, Dust's first trailer and the end product itself are worlds apart. (hmm, yeah...) I was watching some of the old trailers and they all heavily feature vehicles, like the vehicles are the main part of the game Interesting to see how times have changed The Final PLC Kill Dust 514 - My Final Moments

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17081	Posted - 2017.04.19 19:57:00 - [111] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Destiny had tight combat mechanics. Very frantic and fun MP. I ultimately turned away from it because there was no matchmaker for vaults and the like. My anxiety makes setting up groups every time I want to run one a total pain in the ass so I dont even bother. I hope they change that in 2 but who knows. If Nova is just infantry than the mechanics have to be up to par with D2 and Overwatch at least. Especially as a PC only game. This is exactly why I stopped after awhile even though I pre ordered the game. If I pay full price for a game, and you don't give me the option of using the same MM in a raid that you do for a boss, that tells me you don't care about my needs as a customer. I get their reasons, but adding the MM does not bar people from creating a party anymore than it did with bosses. Just a **** poor excuse to alienate your customers. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1148	Posted - 2017.04.20 17:43:00 - [112] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: Yup, Dust's first trailer and the end product itself are worlds apart. (hmm, yeah...) I was watching some of the old trailers and they all heavily feature vehicles, like the vehicles are the main part of the game Interesting to see how times have changed Yeah, it really seems as if they want to create an entirely different game this time around. Not the one that they envisioned a long time ago. Well, I for one really liked their vision for Dust, too bad it seems like that's all it's ever going to be, just a vision. A dream about something insanely awesome that will never ever happen. :(
Moorian Flav 619	Posted - 2017.04.20 18:01:00 - [113] - Quote Vehicles may still be on the table for Nova... eventually. In the meantime, I am still hoping CCP realizes a DUST vehicle based game similar to World of Tanks and War Thunder is still an excellent idea. On top of having another CCP made title out there, CCP could do R&D into fully rebalancing past DUST vehicles while also making the Minmatar and Amarr ones they previously designed for DUST that they could put into Nova later. I don't see how it would be anything but a win/win. I don't troll; I tell the truth. I'm also known as "The ANTI-Propaganda Machine".
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2395	Posted - 2017.04.21 10:35:00 - [114] - Quote I've said it before, but may I add that I also would love to see a vehicle combat only game from CCP. Nova can be the close infantry combat game. CCP should do another game using large scale surface maps with the vehicles from Dust. No need for infantry. Would be awesome.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1859	Posted - 2017.04.21 14:27:00 - [115] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I've said it before, but may I add that I also would love to see a vehicle combat only game from CCP. Nova can be the close infantry combat game. CCP should do another game using large scale surface maps with the vehicles from Dust. No need for infantry. Would be awesome. If it had dropships, I'd play... But I tried and hated world of tanks (ironic since I seemed to love tank514) so I'm pretty sure I'm against seeing a game like that.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1335	Posted - 2017.04.21 14:33:00 - [116] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I've said it before, but may I add that I also would love to see a vehicle combat only game from CCP. Nova can be the close infantry combat game. CCP should do another game using large scale surface maps with the vehicles from Dust. No need for infantry. Would be awesome. That's just world of tanks with different tanks. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2395	Posted - 2017.04.21 18:42:00 - [117] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: I've said it before, but may I add that I also would love to see a vehicle combat only game from CCP. Nova can be the close infantry combat game. CCP should do another game using large scale surface maps with the vehicles from Dust. No need for infantry. Would be awesome. That's just world of tanks with different tanks. Much like Dust was Battlefield with different battlefields?
DELB0Y 108	Posted - 2017.04.29 14:35:00 - [118] - Quote Derp, Juno I miss you guys and I miss Dust. If they ever do release vehicles in this game I doubt we will see them before at least 2020 and that makes me sad :( Hurry up CCP! Also I want to have the option be able to use VR in JUST the vehicles. Would be nice to look around inside my tank and look out of hatches/see my co drivers and stuff. Please, please pull the finger out Hilmar and make vehicles happen! I'm sick of running around ships/space stations in my sci fi shooters. Dust offered beautiful looking battlefields inspired by icelands landscapes and that offered something DIFFERENT that I dont see in many sci fi games. Dusts graphics although poor were still oustanding in my book. Love you all and world peace x You give up our position one more time, I'll bleed you, real quiet, and leave you here. Got that?
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1871	Posted - 2017.04.29 16:42:00 - [119] - Quote DELB0Y wrote: Derp, Juno I miss you guys and I miss Dust. If they ever do release vehicles in this game I doubt we will see them before at least 2020 and that makes me sad :( Hurry up CCP! Also I want to have the option be able to use VR in JUST the vehicles. Would be nice to look around inside my tank and look out of hatches/see my co drivers and stuff. Please, please pull the finger out Hilmar and make vehicles happen! I'm sick of running around ships/space stations in my sci fi shooters. Dust offered beautiful looking battlefields inspired by icelands landscapes and that offered something DIFFERENT that I dont see in many sci fi games. Dusts graphics although poor were still oustanding in my book. Love you all and world peace x We're probably the only people dopey enough to keep pulling out a missile gunni to fight another missile gunni, any sane person would swap to a different turret and play the rock/paper/scissors game. The damage / regen made for some very interesting battles... Properly duking it out for a few minutes, rather than the assasin/wave of opportunity style that most tank fights ended in. I must have lost a **** ton of isk to you, but it was so worthwhile. And those few times we landed on the same team and ended up 2 v 5... It's a shame they aren't adding vehicles at the start, I don't know if gunplay will be enough on its own for me... So hopefully it gets put in before 2020, lol.
Scheneighnay McBob Penumbra or something 8076	Posted - 2017.04.29 19:08:00 - [120] - Quote My interest in the game has been dropping by the minute, and this doesn't help it. Though CCP has proven to be incapable of balancing vehicles (which shouldn't be that hard), so I'm not surprised. Current state of the forums



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