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maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:13:00 - [1] - Quote Then why don't scout suits get a bonus to profile as their bonus? The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) Because mark my words,scanning will come back. Once whatever the current fad is be it tanks or jump forge guns scanners will be abused again. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Foo Fighting Blank Application 625	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:19:00 - [2] - Quote They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner.
No-one-ganks like-Gaston Corrosive Synergy RUST415 752	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:20:00 - [3] - Quote As a Minscout, I would certainly not mind getting an innate bonus to not being lit up constantly. The thought that Dust 514 may one day be the game we dreamed it to be. It fills you with Determination!
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion 3	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:22:00 - [4] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Then why don't scout suits get a bonus to profile as their bonus? The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) Because mark my words,scanning will come back. Once whatever the current fad is be it tanks or jump forge guns scanners will be abused again. But will you comeback? CEO of T-W-L YT- LD3514 Gallente Loyalist- ION PISTOL FOR LIFE! GFQ!
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:27:00 - [5] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. If you think you want to use the broken ass cloak on your Assault or Heavy, feel free. Although I will point out that Medium Frames already infringe on Scout roles too much as is, and that POS cloak is about the only thing left that is truly just theirs. If you really think it should be open to all, you are going to have to suggest some other changes as well I think. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:31:00 - [6] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Then why don't scout suits get a bonus to profile as their bonus? The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) Because mark my words,scanning will come back. Once whatever the current fad is be it tanks or jump forge guns scanners will be abused again. But will you comeback? If the game either gets ported or I happen to finally care enough to drop a few dollars on a ps3. I'm hoping for the the former. Edit: And if I can find a decent third party controller to play with because the ds3 is horrendous. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Foo Fighting Blank Application 626	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:43:00 - [7] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:50:00 - [8] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. Sounds like the words of someone who doesn't understand what two creodron flux active a scanners on a gal logi can do to the enemy team(or actually abuses the tactic and defends it).. Also that gimped scanner(I assume you speak of the duvolle focused scanner) still forces scouts to gimp their fits in order to evade scans. If creodron flux active scanners themselves had the pg/CPU cost raised to where the duvolle focused is,or if the flux scanner in general scans at the long range it does but with less precision then we would never have this problem. They way I've felt the ewar should be is that scouts should be able to fit one damp to evade scans,medium frames two and heavies if they really wanted to be stealth ballerinas could fit 3. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Reign Omega Eternal Beings 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:02:00 - [9] - Quote You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Hell naw...to the naw naw naw...hell to the naw.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:03:00 - [10] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Here is my answer. Just read your own signature. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!

Foo Fighting Blank Application 629	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:12:00 - [11] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. Sounds like the words of someone who doesn't understand what two creodron flux active a scanners on a gal logi can do to the enemy team(or actually abuses the tactic and defends it).. Also that gimped scanner(I assume you speak of the duvolle focused scanner) still forces scouts to gimp their fits in order to evade scans. If creodron flux active scanners themselves had the pg/CPU cost raised to where the duvolle focused is,or if the flux scanner in general scans at the long range it does but with less precision then we would never have this problem. They way I've felt the ewar should be is that scouts should be able to fit one damp to evade scans,medium frames two and heavies if they really wanted to be stealth ballerinas could fit 3. I am not attacking or defending anything and I understand what 2 flux scanners can do. I would have them removed from the game if it was up to me. I was simply sprinkling some facts on your thread.
PARKOUR PRACTIONER L0RDS 0F LEGI0N Damage LLC 4	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:15:00 - [12] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. So because he doesn't play he doesn't deserve an explanation? Cause that makes sense. Scouts already have a fitting bonus already, and the gallente has a bonus to dampening. Are you refering to when the cloak was active it was the equivalent of one complex damp? I have a thread on that in Features about all that stuff. In pain If my skills could match my rage & willpower...
Michael-J-Fox Richards Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 479	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:37:00 - [13] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Then why don't scout suits get a bonus to profile as their bonus? The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) Because mark my words,scanning will come back. Once whatever the current fad is be it tanks or jump forge guns scanners will be abused again. But will you comeback? If the game either gets ported or I happen to finally care enough to drop a few dollars on a ps3. I'm hoping for the the former. Edit: And if I can find a decent third party controller to play with because the ds3 is horrendous. If you haven't tried the ps4 controller it's pretty good permanent fixture of the pantheon of dropship gods
DDx777 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:55:00 - [14] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) . Yes please to ( - 3% to scan profile of cloak module per level ) Some scouts do get a bonus and their profile is already lower Bottom line is that the cloak should have this bonus
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.03 17:45:00 - [15] - Quote Instead of buffing scouts, why not just nerf Gal Logi scans by 10% and buff the STD and ADV scanners slightly so they aren't totally useless like they are now? Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 18:32:00 - [16] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Thank you , no suit ganks like scouts and I see this one cares for the repeat performance of scout 514 when most ran scout squads ganking everyone they could with zero issues . This is way I hate scouts , all they care about is slaying and not scouting and are always asking about their role like they don't have the best role in the game already . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
Reign Omega Eternal Beings 2	Posted - 2016.01.03 20:48:00 - [17] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Here is my answer. Just read your own signature. Lol well played Hell naw...to the naw naw naw...hell to the naw.
korrah silain True Illuminate 202	Posted - 2016.01.03 20:52:00 - [18] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Thank you , no suit ganks like scouts and I see this one cares for the repeat performance of scout 514 when most ran scout squads ganking everyone they could with zero issues . This is way I hate scouts , all they care about is slaying and not scouting and are always asking about their role like they don't have the best role in the game already . Well you are clearly biased and should reexamine.this. I agree that these propositions are both dumb and unnecessary, especially the idea to make the cloak viable on other suits(even though the cloak is pretty much useless as it stands) My question to you, however is what exactly does "scouting" entail? Looking around and sharing passive scans with teammates? Cause we don't do that. Stealing objectives? We still do that, at least I still do. Are scouts not allowed to kill enemies is this what you are proposing? The main thing that led to the overbalance of scouts was the lack of a decloak delay, compound that (seriously broken addition as it was implemented as a weapon switch delay which screws us if we accidentally switch to the wrong slot in the heat of battle) with the further cloak nerf, and blatant visibility of the cloak and really we kinda got shafted too hard. My point is this: you think scouts are a gnats pube from being broken. You are wrong. you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1	Posted - 2016.01.04 02:02:00 - [19] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Thank you , no suit ganks like scouts and I see this one cares for the repeat performance of scout 514 when most ran scout squads ganking everyone they could with zero issues . This is way I hate scouts , all they care about is slaying and not scouting and are always asking about their role like they don't have the best role in the game already . Well you are clearly biased and should reexamine.this. I agree that these propositions are both dumb and unnecessary, especially the idea to make the cloak viable on other suits(even though the cloak is pretty much useless as it stands) My question to you, however is what exactly does "scouting" entail? Looking around and sharing passive scans with teammates? Cause we don't do that. Stealing objectives? We still do that, at least I still do. 1.Are scouts not allowed to kill enemies is this what you are proposing? 2.The main thing that led to the overbalance of scouts was the lack of a decloak delay, compound that (seriously broken addition as it was implemented as a weapon switch delay which screws us if we accidentally switch to the wrong slot in the heat of battle) with the further cloak nerf, and blatant visibility of the cloak and really we kinda got shafted too hard. My point is this: you think scouts are a gnats pube from being broken. You are wrong. 1.Scouts are supposed to be supplimentary,not main line. Low eHP means used only when an assault or logi can't get behind enemies. Exactly like heavies,which is why they're so slow. Scouts come 2nd behind assaults AND logis in importance. 2.No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. Currently,as scouts are,they're balanced. They're now forced to use ewar mods instead of straight eHP like some light assault enthusiasts would like to bring back. So,as usual: -1 for an idea that would bring back light assaults. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2016.01.04 03:06:00 - [20] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Thank you , no suit ganks like scouts and I see this one cares for the repeat performance of scout 514 when most ran scout squads ganking everyone they could with zero issues . This is way I hate scouts , all they care about is slaying and not scouting and are always asking about their role like they don't have the best role in the game already . Well you are clearly biased and should reexamine.this. I agree that these propositions are both dumb and unnecessary, especially the idea to make the cloak viable on other suits(even though the cloak is pretty much useless as it stands) My question to you, however is what exactly does "scouting" entail? Looking around and sharing passive scans with teammates? Cause we don't do that. Stealing objectives? We still do that, at least I still do. Are scouts not allowed to kill enemies is this what you are proposing? The main thing that led to the overbalance of scouts was the lack of a decloak delay, compound that (seriously broken addition as it was implemented as a weapon switch delay which screws us if we accidentally switch to the wrong slot in the heat of battle) with the further cloak nerf, and blatant visibility of the cloak and really we kinda got shafted too hard. My point is this: you think scouts are a gnats pube from being broken. You are wrong. The decloak delay arguments were pretty petty. I am convinced the complaining victims played on SDTVs. Even so, how could you NOT see blurry lines or a distorted background picture making its way towards you like radio waves? Oh well, its all in the past now Saying what's on people's minds

Union118 TH3 STRUGGL3 1	Posted - 2016.01.04 03:07:00 - [21] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Then why don't scout suits get a bonus to profile as their bonus? The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) Because mark my words,scanning will come back. Once whatever the current fad is be it tanks or jump forge guns scanners will be abused again. This would not be an issue if they fixed perma scanning. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
Diablo Gamekeeper Anunnakii 768	Posted - 2016.01.04 03:14:00 - [22] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. An Amarr can 22-6 vs Ancient Exiles A-Team. Your move Marauder. Rainbow Dash CCP Broke my link
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 03:16:00 - [23] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. None of that is accurate, Foo. Dropsuit Usage Rates
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.04 03:33:00 - [24] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. ... You have this COMPLETELY backwards... Inner circle ring precisions can get into the single digits, where as the lowest any Active Scanner can get is 15 dB. Gal scouts are the only Scout that can beat it WITHOUT an active Pro Cloak. All other Scouts are able to beat 15 dB with an active Pro Cloak. Min and Amarr need 3 Complex Dampeners to get to 16 dB, and since the Pro Cloak has a 10% dampening effect (-1.6 difference, which rounds to 2 dB. 16 dB - 2 dB = 14 dB). Since Cal Scouts only have 2 Low Slots, they get the Profile reduction bonus so that they are able to get to 16 dB with just 2 Complex Dampeners, and then the same math above applies. This was the whole intention of EWAR pre rings. That ALL scouts should be able to beat scans, provided they make the sacrifice. At the time, 18 dB was the lowest passive scans available, and all Scouts were designed to beat them without an active Pro Cloak, because of Shared Passives and always on Passive Scans. The rings, however, are a whole different story. The lowest a Gal Scout can get is 12 dB. That is with 4 Complex Dampeners, bringing them to 13 dB, and an active Pro Cloak lowering their profile 1 dB. Let's look at the highest Precision numbers to get an idea. A Heavy suit, with max Precision and no Precision mods has an Inner Ring Scan of 25 dB. With 4 Complex Precision mods, they can get down to 12 dB, which ties the lowest Gal Profile, which means they can be picked up on the Heavy's Inner Ring, with enough sacrifice, even while Max Damped and Cloaked. Medium Frames only need 2 Complex Precision mods to get all but a Cloaked, Max Damped Gal Scout, while adding a 3rd can even pick them up on Inner Ring Scans. Again, this was the whole intended design of the circles. That they could not be beaten. All EWAR numbers can be found here, which is compiled and current, and can always be found on the 1st post in the Barbershop, found in the Locker Room. As an aside, this is like the 4th or 5th time I have had to have this exact discussion. I have been a Scout going on 3 years in February, and have been Minmatar since it's release on Uprising 1.0. I have been a Knifer since sometime around 1.4, which puts me at a point in time when the entirety of our kind could be numbered in the dozens, despite having many, many more active players. I have been here through all the changes, and while I certainly misremember things, or don't know some others, please try and at least back your statements up with some facts. That being said, I stand by my point that I don't think this is a good idea (though I would enjoy seeing some of those that think Cloaking is "easy" try having to deal with that POS), and that you better come up with some benefits for Scouts to give the ONE remaining thing we still have. Otherwise, you may as well delete the role, and give it to Logis or Assaults, as they are both half way there as it is. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.04 03:34:00 - [25] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. None of that is accurate, Foo. I pity the Foo. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 04:20:00 - [26] - Quote Meee One wrote: No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. You're right on this point. Precisely as you said, there was a time when Scouts could stack plates and benefit from strong innate EWAR. Scouts proposed a couple different solutions to this problem, either of which would've worked. One proposed solution was to assign efficacy bonuses to EWAR modules, such that there would be no innate EWAR bonus for Assault Lite. Another proposed solution was to increase the movement penalties for plates when equipped by Scouts, or otherwise restrict plate usage on Scouts, which would've absolutely detered Assault Lite. Instead of rolling out a fix targeted at the problem (Assault Lite), CCP decided to nerf Scout EWAR across the board. Assault Lite actually weathered this nerf better than other Scout playstyles. EWAR Scouts and Biotic Scouts (playstyles which have existed since Beta) have been largely phased out of competitive play. AM Scouts are now a joke. Intraclass parity -- which was found w/HF Charlie -- has once again been lost. And here they've left it for over a year. To add insult to injury, CCP turbobuffed the GalLogi at the same time that they nerfed Scout EWAR. "We're nerfing Scout EWAR because permascan is bad. We're also introducing a new, more efficient form a permascan." Mistakes were made. How to fix? #1. First and foremost, fix GalLogi permascan. #2. Make passive scans less bad (or) find a new job for the AM Scout (and possibly CA). #3. Finetune Falloff mechanics (or) rework EWAR. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 410	Posted - 2016.01.04 04:30:00 - [27] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. You're right on this point. Precisely as you said, there was a time when Scouts could stack plates and benefit from strong innate EWAR. Scouts proposed a couple different solutions to this problem, either of which would've worked. One proposed solution was to assign efficacy bonuses to EWAR modules, such that there would be no innate EWAR bonus for Assault Lite. Another proposed solution was to increase the movement penalties for plates when equipped by Scouts, or otherwise restrict plate usage on Scouts, which would've absolutely detered Assault Lite. Instead of rolling out a fix targeted at the problem (Assault Lite), CCP decided to nerf Scout EWAR across the board. Assault Lite actually weathered this nerf better than other Scout playstyles. EWAR Scouts and Biotic Scouts (playstyles which have existed since Beta) have been largely phased out of competitive play. AM Scouts are now a joke. Intraclass parity -- which was found w/HF Charlie -- has once again been lost. To add insult to injury, CCP turbobuffed the GalLogi at the same time that they nerfed Scout EWAR. "We're nerfing Scout EWAR because permascan is bad. We're also introducing a new, more efficient form a permascan." Mistakes were made. How to fix? #1. First and foremost, fix active scans (i.e. GalLogi permascan). #2. Make passive scans less bad (or) find a new job for the AM Scout. #3. Finetune Falloff mechanics (or) rework EWAR. Have you seen the cooldown times of the scanners? The guy scanning sacrifices EQ slots to keep scans up. Also, the Duvolle Focused is very very hard to use, as the scanning angle is tiny, and the duration is like 7.5 seconds with GalLogi bonus(can't remember but has like a 45 second cooldown?!?!?!). Scanners have been shat upon more then enough. Be gone with you I say. My YouTube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 04:47:00 - [28] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. You're right on this point. Precisely as you said, there was a time when Scouts could stack plates and benefit from strong innate EWAR. Scouts proposed a couple different solutions to this problem, either of which would've worked. One proposed solution was to assign efficacy bonuses to EWAR modules, such that there would be no innate EWAR bonus for Assault Lite. Another proposed solution was to increase the movement penalties for plates when equipped by Scouts, or otherwise restrict plate usage on Scouts, which would've absolutely detered Assault Lite. Instead of rolling out a fix targeted at the problem (Assault Lite), CCP decided to nerf Scout EWAR across the board. Assault Lite actually weathered this nerf better than other Scout playstyles. EWAR Scouts and Biotic Scouts (playstyles which have existed since Beta) have been largely phased out of competitive play. AM Scouts are now a joke. Intraclass parity -- which was found w/HF Charlie -- has once again been lost. To add insult to injury, CCP turbobuffed the GalLogi at the same time that they nerfed Scout EWAR. "We're nerfing Scout EWAR because permascan is bad. We're also introducing a new, more efficient form a permascan." Mistakes were made. How to fix? #1. First and foremost, fix active scans (i.e. GalLogi permascan). #2. Make passive scans less bad (or) find a new job for the AM Scout. #3. Finetune Falloff mechanics (or) rework EWAR. Have you seen the cooldown times of the scanners? The guy scanning sacrifices EQ slots to keep scans up. Also, the Duvolle Focused is very very hard to use, as the scanning angle is tiny, and the duration is like 7.5 seconds with GalLogi bonus(can't remember but has like a 45 second cooldown?!?!?!). Scanners have been shat upon more then enough. Be gone with you I say. The line reads "fix GalLogi permascan". Permascan occurs at 21dB (not at 15dB). The Duvolle Focused Active Scanner is among the least problematic of the lot for precisely this reason. Even with 3-4 of them, you can't keep scans up constantly due to lengthy cooldown. By contrast, the Creodron Flux is the absolute worst as it is capable of keeping scans up constantly over vast sections of map. Another point to ponder here is teamshare vs squadshare. Back when passives were strong, one unit sharing always-up scans with his squad was deemed sufficiently imbalanced to warrant the kneecapping of passive scans. What makes you think that one unit sharing always-up scans with his entire team is balanced? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Mejt0 Made in Poland... Devil's Descendants 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 04:51:00 - [29] - Quote It's about scanners ability to scan without any consequences and their scan/cooldown (time)/number of them being equiped. It is not about their ability to scan you. Racial bonuses are good. Suit bonus should be less noticeable between tiers, that is all. In my opinion, they could rework numbers so you can't have perma scans (or too frequent scans). Add one disadvantage for such powerful tool. When you use a scanner, enemies will see you on their minimap. Ps. If you think that Duvolle 15db Scan is the problem here then you are either only looking at yourself or inexperienced. In short, those who attack 'best in-game scans' are the same people who would go rambo excepting magic. Go play the game more. Might play Dust, soon tm.
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 410	Posted - 2016.01.04 04:57:00 - [30] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. You're right on this point. Precisely as you said, there was a time when Scouts could stack plates and benefit from strong innate EWAR. Scouts proposed a couple different solutions to this problem, either of which would've worked. One proposed solution was to assign efficacy bonuses to EWAR modules, such that there would be no innate EWAR bonus for Assault Lite. Another proposed solution was to increase the movement penalties for plates when equipped by Scouts, or otherwise restrict plate usage on Scouts, which would've absolutely detered Assault Lite. Instead of rolling out a fix targeted at the problem (Assault Lite), CCP decided to nerf Scout EWAR across the board. Assault Lite actually weathered this nerf better than other Scout playstyles. EWAR Scouts and Biotic Scouts (playstyles which have existed since Beta) have been largely phased out of competitive play. AM Scouts are now a joke. Intraclass parity -- which was found w/HF Charlie -- has once again been lost. To add insult to injury, CCP turbobuffed the GalLogi at the same time that they nerfed Scout EWAR. "We're nerfing Scout EWAR because permascan is bad. We're also introducing a new, more efficient form a permascan." Mistakes were made. How to fix? #1. First and foremost, fix active scans (i.e. GalLogi permascan). #2. Make passive scans less bad (or) find a new job for the AM Scout. #3. Finetune Falloff mechanics (or) rework EWAR. Have you seen the cooldown times of the scanners? The guy scanning sacrifices EQ slots to keep scans up. Also, the Duvolle Focused is very very hard to use, as the scanning angle is tiny, and the duration is like 7.5 seconds with GalLogi bonus(can't remember but has like a 45 second cooldown?!?!?!). Scanners have been shat upon more then enough. Be gone with you I say. The line reads "fix GalLogi permascan". Permascan occurs at 21dB (not at 15dB). The Duvolle Focused Active Scanner is among the least problematic of the lot for precisely this reason. Even with 3-4 of them, you can't keep scans up constantly due to lengthy cooldown. By contrast, the Creodron Flux is the absolute worst as it is capable of keeping scans up constantly over vast sections of map. Another point to ponder here is teamshare vs squadshare. Back when passives were strong, we pretty much all agreed that a unit sharing long-range, always-up scans with his squad was imbalanced. What makes you think that a unit sharing long-range, always-up scans with his entire team is balanced? At the end of the day, permascan is bad for gameplay. It always has been. Fixing GalLogi permascan is a no brainer. As it relates to Scouts ... so long as the OP Eye of Sauron is in play, there will not be for passive recon units. Active and passive scans can (and should) be balanced in such a way that there's room for both roles. Honestly I don't see any problem with 24/7 scans, as the other team has the option of also doing this. The problem to me is scouts dampning. I'm not seeing how CCP can balance this properly without messing something else up. I remember when scouts were OP, completely unscannable. I don't want to go back to those days. I'd rather have everyone on both sides lit up like Christmas, than a few players 100% scan proof. I've said it once and I'll say it again, 100% scan resistance is too powerful, it should not exist. If the inner ring is all we have of preventing that, then so be it. My YouTube Channel

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 05:06:00 - [31] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Medical Crash wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Meee One wrote: No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. You're right on this point. Precisely as you said, there was a time when Scouts could stack plates and benefit from strong innate EWAR. Scouts proposed a couple different solutions to this problem, either of which would've worked. One proposed solution was to assign efficacy bonuses to EWAR modules, such that there would be no innate EWAR bonus for Assault Lite. Another proposed solution was to increase the movement penalties for plates when equipped by Scouts, or otherwise restrict plate usage on Scouts, which would've absolutely detered Assault Lite. Instead of rolling out a fix targeted at the problem (Assault Lite), CCP decided to nerf Scout EWAR across the board. Assault Lite actually weathered this nerf better than other Scout playstyles. EWAR Scouts and Biotic Scouts (playstyles which have existed since Beta) have been largely phased out of competitive play. AM Scouts are now a joke. Intraclass parity -- which was found w/HF Charlie -- has once again been lost. To add insult to injury, CCP turbobuffed the GalLogi at the same time that they nerfed Scout EWAR. "We're nerfing Scout EWAR because permascan is bad. We're also introducing a new, more efficient form a permascan." Mistakes were made. How to fix? #1. First and foremost, fix active scans (i.e. GalLogi permascan). #2. Make passive scans less bad (or) find a new job for the AM Scout. #3. Finetune Falloff mechanics (or) rework EWAR. Have you seen the cooldown times of the scanners? The guy scanning sacrifices EQ slots to keep scans up. Also, the Duvolle Focused is very very hard to use, as the scanning angle is tiny, and the duration is like 7.5 seconds with GalLogi bonus(can't remember but has like a 45 second cooldown?!?!?!). Scanners have been shat upon more then enough. Be gone with you I say. The line reads "fix GalLogi permascan". Permascan occurs at 21dB (not at 15dB). The Duvolle Focused Active Scanner is among the least problematic of the lot for precisely this reason. Even with 3-4 of them, you can't keep scans up constantly due to lengthy cooldown. By contrast, the Creodron Flux is the absolute worst as it is capable of keeping scans up constantly over vast sections of map. Another point to ponder here is teamshare vs squadshare. Back when passives were strong, we pretty much all agreed that a unit sharing long-range, always-up scans with his squad was imbalanced. What makes you think that a unit sharing long-range, always-up scans with his entire team is balanced? At the end of the day, permascan is bad for gameplay. It always has been. Fixing GalLogi permascan is a no brainer. As it relates to Scouts ... so long as the OP Eye of Sauron is in play, there will not be for passive recon units. Active and passive scans can (and should) be balanced in such a way that there's room for both roles. Honestly I don't see any problem with 24/7 scans, as the other team has the option of also doing this. The problem to me is scouts dampning. I'm not seeing how CCP can balance this properly without messing something else up. I remember when scouts were OP, completely unscannable. I don't want to go back to those days. I'd rather have everyone on both sides lit up like Christmas, than a few players 100% scan proof. I've said it once and I'll say it again, 100% scan resistance is too powerful, it should not exist. If the inner ring is all we have of preventing that, then so be it. On 24/7 scans, I disagree, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. If CCP decides to rubber stamp 24/7 scans, they need to rework the CA Scout and AM Scout racial bonuses to passive scans. All units deserve a competitive, meaningful bonus; on a permascanned battlefield, these units' passives are neither competitive or meaningful. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 411	Posted - 2016.01.04 05:14:00 - [32] - Quote To show comparison of Scanners Prenerf and Postnerf I have two gameplay videos below. Vaccuum Cleaner Ambush Battle with Russian Squad Notice how long the duration of the scanner is, and how fast it recharges. this is before the nerf bat beat it Bobby Brown style. This next video is Scanners Post nerf: Cyber Cobra Squad Ambush Battle In this video example we now have to carry several PROTO scanners to keep scanning maintained due the incredibly severe nerfs to scanners. Look at that cooldown time, unbelievable. Please, I think scanners have been through enough. My YouTube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 05:17:00 - [33] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: ... due the incredibly severe nerfs to scanners. What nerfs? When they fixed 360 spinscanning? Other than that -- which happened a long time ago -- the only other change to active scanners that I recall is the buff from squad-share to team-share. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 411	Posted - 2016.01.04 05:25:00 - [34] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Medical Crash wrote: ... due the incredibly severe nerfs to scanners. What nerfs? When they fixed 360 spinscanning? Other than that -- which happened a long time ago -- the only other change to active scanners that I recall is the buff from squad-share to team-share. I haven't checked the patch notes, but if I recall, the cooldown times of the Active Scanners prenerf were nowhere near as long as they are now. My YouTube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 05:32:00 - [35] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: I haven't checked the patch notes... Warlords Warlords 1.0 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2592509 Warlords 1.1 - https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2734048 Warlords 1.2 - https://dust514.com/news/2015/07/warlords-1.2-overview-patch-notes/ Warlords 1.3 - Soon(TM) Hotfixes Hotfix Alpha \| Numbers Hotfix Bravo Hotfix Charlie \| Numbers Hotfix Delta \| Numbers \| Dev Blog Hotfix Echo \| Numbers Unnamed Update (Scotty 2.0) Unnamed Update (1.1 Patch) Warlords 1.1.3 Hotfix Foxfour Dropsuit Usage Rates
Mejt0 Made in Poland... Devil's Descendants 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 06:01:00 - [36] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Medical Crash wrote: ... due the incredibly severe nerfs to scanners. What nerfs? When they fixed 360 spinscanning? Other than that -- which happened a long time ago -- the only other change to active scanners that I recall is the buff from squad-share to team-share. I haven't checked the patch notes, but if I recall, the cooldown times of the Active Scanners prenerf were nowhere near as long as they are now. Prenerf scanner scans are nowhere as good as team shared scans. Might play Dust, soon tm.
Alena Asakura Caldari Logistics Reserve 228	Posted - 2016.01.04 10:48:00 - [37] - Quote Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote: If you haven't tried the ps4 controller it's pretty good I've tried the DS4 controller. It's excellent. However, I couldn't get the vibration feedback to work - is there something I need to do or is it simply not enabled on the PS3?
Mortishai Belmont XxAMBUSH FTWxX Shadow of Dust 1	Posted - 2016.01.04 11:48:00 - [38] - Quote All scouts already have the lowest base suit scan profile. All suits get the bonus to cloaks because they make you more stealthy .3. Maybe you're just not fitting your suit right? If I have a problem with too many scouts, I'll pull out a gal logi. When my scans become a problem for the scouts, they put on their cloak or damps and come to take me out :D You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. (~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 240	Posted - 2016.01.04 12:36:00 - [39] - Quote The only suit that can scan viably is the gallente logi. Being able to scan the gallente scout requires #1 being a gallente logi, #2 Being at proto level and #3 using a very expensive scanner (also proto level). Because it is only one suit and it is very expensive there really isn't a big problem. A problem would be if a lot of suits could do the same. Also, using the logi also means you are weaker and easier to kill. Every suit has to have a counter.
noob cavman Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2016.01.04 13:45:00 - [40] - Quote Ahhhh this old argument. Where Perma scan logis are apparently balanced The most abusive northerner. currently reading clockwork vampires by andy remic. A terra bad/awesome author

Mejt0 Made in Poland... Devil's Descendants 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 13:55:00 - [41] - Quote Luna McDuffing wrote: The only suit that can scan viably is the gallente logi. Being able to scan the gallente scout requires #1 being a gallente logi, #2 Being at proto level and #3 using a very expensive scanner (also proto level). Because it is only one suit and it is very expensive there really isn't a big problem. A problem would be if a lot of suits could do the same. Also, using the logi also means you are weaker and easier to kill. Every suit has to have a counter. You don't understand the point here, but I'll gladly tell you why your 'arguments' make no sense. "Being able to scan the gallente scout requires #1 being a gallente logi" - Same as you need to be gallente scout to beat gallogi scans (permamently) "#2 Being at proto level " - Scout needs everything leveled to proto in order to be a scout "#3 using a very expensive scanner (also proto level)" - Proto fitted scout is few times easier to one shot and it is not any cheaper ('this is expensive" logic is so wrong, by its meaning tanks should be invisible to at least 10 people because they cost 10 times more) "Because it is only one suit and it is very expensive there really isn't a big problem" - Read #1 and #3 "using the logi also means you are weaker and easier to kill" - The only thing it means is that you have only a little lower eHP than an assault Might play Dust, soon tm.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:09:00 - [42] - Quote Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Foo Fighting Blank Application 634	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:25:00 - [43] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. ... You have this COMPLETELY backwards... Inner circle ring precisions can get into the single digits, where as the lowest any Active Scanner can get is 15 dB. Gal scouts are the only Scout that can beat it WITHOUT an active Pro Cloak. All other Scouts are able to beat 15 dB with an active Pro Cloak. Min and Amarr need 3 Complex Dampeners to get to 16 dB, and since the Pro Cloak has a 10% dampening effect (-1.6 difference, which rounds to 2 dB. 16 dB - 2 dB = 14 dB). Since Cal Scouts only have 2 Low Slots, they get the Profile reduction bonus so that they are able to get to 16 dB with just 2 Complex Dampeners, and then the same math above applies. This was the whole intention of EWAR pre rings. That ALL scouts should be able to beat scans, provided they make the sacrifice. At the time, 18 dB was the lowest passive scans available, and all Scouts were designed to beat them without an active Pro Cloak, because of Shared Passives and always on Passive Scans. The rings, however, are a whole different story. The lowest a Gal Scout can get is 12 dB. That is with 4 Complex Dampeners, bringing them to 13 dB, and an active Pro Cloak lowering their profile 1 dB. Let's look at the highest Precision numbers to get an idea. A Heavy suit, with max Precision and no Precision mods has an Inner Ring Scan of 25 dB. With 4 Complex Precision mods, they can get down to 12 dB, which ties the lowest Gal Profile, which means they can be picked up on the Heavy's Inner Ring, with enough sacrifice, even while Max Damped and Cloaked. Medium Frames only need 2 Complex Precision mods to get all but a Cloaked, Max Damped Gal Scout, while adding a 3rd can even pick them up on Inner Ring Scans. Again, this was the whole intended design of the circles. That they could not be beaten. All EWAR numbers can be found here, which is compiled and current, and can always be found on the 1st post in the Barbershop, found in the Locker Room. More than happy to be educated although I don't need anyones pity lol. Regarding the bold statement above: How do you come to the conclusion the sentinel's inner circle is 25dB? According to this the inner circle is 90% i.e. 45dB - 10% =41.5dB and the outer circle is 110% i.e. 45dB +10% = 49.5dB. Have things changed since the circles were introduced?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:31:00 - [44] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: How do you come to the conclusion the sentinel's inner circle is 25dB? According to this the inner circle is 90% i.e. 45dB - 10% =41.5dB and the outer circle is 110% i.e. 45dB +10% = 49.5dB. Have things changed since the circles were introduced? The diagram you've referenced was for illustrative purposes. They ended up implementing falloff precision values at 50%, 100%, 130% (dB) and range at 20%, 50%, 100% (meters). This is why range extenders got the ax; inner rings are extremely strong at nominal investment. With falloff values and range extenders as they are, Recon Scouts got the shaft (and have since remained shafted). To further obfuscate the matter, today's Eye of Sauron GalLogi was birthed at the same time that Recon Scouts were put to pasture. One flavor of permascan was ruled bad-for-gameplay and removed, but it was immediately replaced by another, far more efficient flavor. To further, further obfuscate the matter, Logis were also given stronger base scan range than Scouts. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Foo Fighting Blank Application 634	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:38:00 - [45] - Quote Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating.
noob cavman Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 4	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:38:00 - [46] - Quote And this is why I removed the damps and put on 3 kincats on my minja when I stilled played. My goal was to have castrated you before my blip showed up That and core's. Cores rocked. The most abusive northerner. currently reading clockwork vampires by andy remic. A terra bad/awesome author
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:47:00 - [47] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating. I think its somewhere later in that same thread. That thread is going to be a pain to sort through however. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
I Blame Society Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:49:00 - [48] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Then why don't scout suits get a bonus to profile as their bonus? The 15% to cloak fitting should belong to the cloak fitting skill(makes it available to other suits without need of booster/enchancers) Because mark my words,scanning will come back. Once whatever the current fad is be it tanks or jump forge guns scanners will be abused again. YOU WROTE THIS SAME THING 3 MONTHS AGO, I REMEMBER!! You shall not defeat me in combat, for I am the one who does not bleed... Face me, and you will lose yours.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:55:00 - [49] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating. I think its somewhere later in that same thread. That thread is going to be a pain to sort through however. Found it: http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/author/CCP#5 Actually wasn't too hard with using the Dust Search. Much easier to find than the forum search. It's toward the end. Rattati linked to a spreadsheet. I think the details can also be found in the Uprising 1.10 (Dec 2014) patch notes. Digging ... http://dust514.com/news/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/ Dropsuit Usage Rates
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:05:00 - [50] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating. I think its somewhere later in that same thread. That thread is going to be a pain to sort through however. Found it: http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/author/CCP#5 Actually wasn't too hard with using the Dust Search. Much easier to find than the forum search. It's toward the end. Rattati linked to a spreadsheet. I think the details can also be found in the Uprising 1.10 (Dec 2014) patch notes. Digging ... http://dust514.com/news/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/ http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/page/14#393 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0uAKk-PtFUgV62QANDe0lJ02Ukc-jQuhcLdwhG4J1Q/edit#gid=18624413 P.S. I miss that kind of dialogue and feedback... Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:19:00 - [51] - Quote Gal logi with two creodron flux active scanners. But you can permascan everyone who isn't a gal scout or equipped with multi damps. Gal scout with one damp,can evade pretty much everything except inner ring scans. Problem is,the gal logi completely destroys ewar for every suit. Bigger problem is that the gal scout is too good at stealth vs other scouts The gallente are the reaso ewar is broke right now.Just saying. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:28:00 - [52] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Gal logi with two creodron flux active scanners. But you can permascan everyone who isn't a gal scout or equipped with multi damps. Gal scout with one damp,can evade pretty much everything except inner ring scans. Problem is,the gal logi completely destroys ewar for every suit. Bigger problem is that the gal scout is too good at stealth vs other scouts The gallente are the reaso ewar is broke right now.Just saying. EWAR is broke for a lot of reasons, constant Shared Passive scans being one of them, and the one I personally hate the most. Gal Scouts were the 1st scout, and have the by product of having the rational bonus of profile dampening grandfathered in even as more suits were added. In addition to having 4 Low Slots, which due to module placement and Shield/Armor performance gaps is the more valuable to have, is part of the reason Gal Scouts have always been the superior performance. Personally, I don't think that there is much that can be done on EWAR while we have the old code and old hardware to deal with. I just wish they had made more piecemeal changes with regards to EWAR instead of doing a bunch of things all at once. Assault Buff + Medium Frame EWAR Buff + Cloak Blind + Concentric Circles all arriving within close proximity to one another was too many changes too soon. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:30:00 - [53] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating. I think its somewhere later in that same thread. That thread is going to be a pain to sort through however. Found it: http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/author/CCP#5 Actually wasn't too hard with using the Dust Search. Much easier to find than the forum search. It's toward the end. Rattati linked to a spreadsheet. I think the details can also be found in the Uprising 1.10 (Dec 2014) patch notes. Digging ... http://dust514.com/news/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/ http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/page/14#393 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0uAKk-PtFUgV62QANDe0lJ02Ukc-jQuhcLdwhG4J1Q/edit#gid=18624413 P.S. I miss that kind of dialogue and feedback... The kind of dialogue where self-serving members of CPM flat-out lie to get what they want? I don't miss that kind of dialogue. Here's to hoping it never happens again. And should it, here's to hoping Rattati is able to part fact from fiction. Dropsuit Usage Rates
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 13	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:34:00 - [54] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating. I think its somewhere later in that same thread. That thread is going to be a pain to sort through however. Found it: http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/author/CCP#5 Actually wasn't too hard with using the Dust Search. Much easier to find than the forum search. It's toward the end. Rattati linked to a spreadsheet. I think the details can also be found in the Uprising 1.10 (Dec 2014) patch notes. Digging ... http://dust514.com/news/2014/12/uprising-1.10-overview-patch-notes/ http://dustsearch.com/thread/181381/page/14#393 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j0uAKk-PtFUgV62QANDe0lJ02Ukc-jQuhcLdwhG4J1Q/edit#gid=18624413 P.S. I miss that kind of dialogue and feedback... The kind of dialogue where self-serving members of CPM flat-out lie to get what they want? I don't miss that kind of dialogue. Here's to hoping it never happens again. And should it, here's to hoping Rattati is able to part fact from fiction. That is what it devolved to, but it didn't happen with every topic, and it is certainly better than silence. I think you have to take the good with the bad, and on the whole having dialogue and discussion is better than silence. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:39:00 - [55] - Quote Here's another thing. All scanners excluding the focused and the specialist one cost 9pg to equip. At basic level out of the box no bonuses at all. The full gal logi bonus drops 25% pg from all scanners as well. You must invest to level five in a SPECIFIC suit to recieve the full cloak fitting reduction AND must use that suit. Basic cloak costs 9pg but you get no bonuses from it other than being shimmery for 15 seconds. So you have to shell out for the advanced cloak. Not to mention complex damps dependant of what race suit you wore. See where I'm going here? So basically I can invest less skill points and isk to defeat a scout from a distance without doing anything. A basic gal logi can mount two creodron flux active scanners and scan the entire enemy team from a safe hidey hole. The am and min scouts must equip around threeish damp and a adv cloak(my numbers are slightly off) AND they must be level 4 or 5 scouts or fitting weapons and modules is out of the question. Other than just bringing the precision down on the flux active scanners I really don't see another way to fix ewar. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:39:00 - [56] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Personally, I don't think that there is much that can be done on EWAR while we have the old code and old hardware to deal with. They could easily tune existing parameters to make for better balanced EWAR interplay. For instance ... * Active Scanners: Set to squad-share; double recon assist WP. * Creodron Flux Active Scanner: Reduce angle from 90 to 60 and range from 200m to 150m. * Passive Scans: Swap Logi and Scout base scan range. * Falloff: Dialback inner ring precision intensity. * Range Extenders: Buff slightly (i.e. 15% to 25%). Voila! Fewer instances of permascan in pubs and room on the battlefield for both passive and active recon. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 16:40:00 - [57] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: The kind of dialogue where self-serving members of CPM flat-out lie to get what they want? I don't miss that kind of dialogue. Here's to hoping it never happens again. And should it, here's to hoping Rattati is able to part fact from fiction. That is what it devolved to, but it didn't happen with every topic, and it is certainly better than silence. I think you have to take the good with the bad, and on the whole having dialogue and discussion is better than silence. Agreed 100%. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Ghost Steps G0DS AM0NG MEN RUST415 36	Posted - 2016.01.04 17:17:00 - [58] - Quote Scouts should have a general scan profile reduction per level when equiped with cloack as an innate for scouts, this as a passive on the cloack proficency or the class, that would let them have to equip 1 complex dampener ir onder to escape any proto scan used by gallente but the flux nad forcibly the cloack. The flux is the only counter measure aagainst scouts anyway, i dont like 1 equipmen in 1 merc on enemy team, nullifyes all the scout in one side of the team, the only countermeasure i can come up right now is that somehow the scouts can reduce the timer they are on the scan. Caldari Scouts should be Ninjas.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... Devil's Descendants 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 18:11:00 - [59] - Quote Ghost Steps wrote: Scouts should have a general scan profile reduction per level when equiped with cloack as an innate for scouts, this as a passive on the cloack proficency or the class, that would let them have to equip 1 complex dampener ir onder to escape any proto scan used by gallente but the flux and forcibly equip the cloack. The flux is the only counter measure against scouts anyway, i dont like though that 1 equipmen in 1 merc on enemy team, nullifyes all the scout in one side of the team, the only countermeasure i can come up right now is that somehow the scouts can reduce the timer they are on the scan. This is a terrible idea. You want good but you don't look at a bigger picture. More bonuses = less need for certain modules. When you can get free 'stealth' you can also stack raw HP. Might play Dust, soon tm.
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 509	Posted - 2016.01.04 19:43:00 - [60] - Quote Alena Asakura wrote: Michael-J-Fox Richards wrote: If you haven't tried the ps4 controller it's pretty good I've tried the DS4 controller. It's excellent. However, I couldn't get the vibration feedback to work - is there something I need to do or is it simply not enabled on the PS3? No it just doesn't work (the vibration). Also, DS4 wasn't really specifically "intended" to work on PS3 so be careful because you can ruin the circuitry in the DS4 if you use it too much with your PS3. I have experience with this. D4GG3R is my mom. I have reason to suspect Archduke is a Sassy Pirate.

korrah silain True Illuminate 205	Posted - 2016.01.04 21:04:00 - [61] - Quote Meee One wrote: korrah silain wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. Thank you , no suit ganks like scouts and I see this one cares for the repeat performance of scout 514 when most ran scout squads ganking everyone they could with zero issues . This is way I hate scouts , all they care about is slaying and not scouting and are always asking about their role like they don't have the best role in the game already . Well you are clearly biased and should reexamine.this. I agree that these propositions are both dumb and unnecessary, especially the idea to make the cloak viable on other suits(even though the cloak is pretty much useless as it stands) My question to you, however is what exactly does "scouting" entail? Looking around and sharing passive scans with teammates? Cause we don't do that. Stealing objectives? We still do that, at least I still do. 1.Are scouts not allowed to kill enemies is this what you are proposing? 2.The main thing that led to the overbalance of scouts was the lack of a decloak delay, compound that (seriously broken addition as it was implemented as a weapon switch delay which screws us if we accidentally switch to the wrong slot in the heat of battle) with the further cloak nerf, and blatant visibility of the cloak and really we kinda got shafted too hard. My point is this: you think scouts are a gnats pube from being broken. You are wrong. 1.Scouts are supposed to be supplimentary,not main line. Low eHP means used only when an assault or logi can't get behind enemies. Exactly like heavies,which is why they're so slow. Scouts come 2nd behind assaults AND logis in importance. 2.No,the main thing that lead to the "overbalance" (OP) scouts was that they had enough innate dampening/eWAR built-in that they could stack eHP and break hit detection.Stealth and health,one had to go. Currently,as scouts are,they're balanced. They're now forced to use ewar mods instead of straight eHP like some light assault enthusiasts would like to bring back. So,as usual: -1 for an idea that would bring back light assaults. Lol OK, so, let me get this straight "stealth or health, one has to go. Ok so we get rid of health, fine, I speed tank anyway, and play vanguard/disruption. Oh wait...permascan. Welp ****. So yeah nice self refutation. -1 you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 21:31:00 - [62] - Quote Lol every time I here someone go "kincats break hit detection" I know that they're really saying is "I can't keep track of a moving target because I have no gungame" first off I've killed plenty and have been killed by plenty of scouts. And here's the thing. They don't move fast enough to break hit detection at all. My internet is good and I can easily compensate for the rare lagspikes because dust is a laggy game and sometimes hitboxes aren't aligned with the player models. I've speedtanked before and serpentined very well and I still get hit. Because those people had aim. I've never seen shots come at me and hit me and not have my health decrease,every time I was shot I lost health. For the people that whine about kincats think about it. A:you have to stop to regain stamina B: lowslots dedicated to speed instead of armour C:cannot attack while sprinting. In response to some of the above people. A:scouts in dictionary terms:someone sent ahead of the main force to gauge the enemy force. B:the term for scout in dust means that they are meant for stealth and assassination(as described by the description) C:scouts have weapons,and I doubt someone will let them get away if spotted,therefore a scout needs to kill just like all the other suits. Even logistics get weapons. There already is a balance between health,speed and ewar,you can only have two of the three but ewar is broken for the amarr and min scouts and all suits vs a gal logi so people just go for HP and speed unless they run gal scout. Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.04 21:45:00 - [63] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Lol every time I here someone go "kincats break hit detection" I know that they're really saying is "I can't keep track of a moving target because I have no gungame" first off I've killed plenty and have been killed by plenty of scouts. And here's the thing. They don't move fast enough to break hit detection at all. My internet is good and I can easily compensate for the rare lagspikes because dust is a laggy game and sometimes hitboxes aren't aligned with the player models. I've speedtanked before and serpentined very well and I still get hit. Because those people had aim. I've never seen shots come at me and hit me and not have my health decrease,every time I was shot I lost health. For the people that whine about kincats think about it. A:you have to stop to regain stamina B: lowslots dedicated to speed instead of armour C:cannot attack while sprinting. In response to some of the above people. A:scouts in dictionary terms:someone sent ahead of the main force to gauge the enemy force. B:the term for scout in dust means that they are meant for stealth and assassination(as described by the description) C:scouts have weapons,and I doubt someone will let them get away if spotted,therefore a scout needs to kill just like all the other suits. Even logistics get weapons. There already is a balance between health,speed and ewar,you can only have two of the three but ewar is broken for the amarr and min scouts and all suits vs a gal logi so people just go for HP and speed unless they run gal scout. Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. I think the Gal logi bonus to precision should be nerfed slightly from 5% per level to 3% that way it should mean that 2 damps should get all scouts under the scans or 1 damp and a proto cloak. As for the whole inner ring argument, no it shouldn't be as good as it is but it only has a 6m radius. You can literally hide anywhere outside that radius and most things will never see you, and as scouts are so fast you could get to them and kill them before you appear on their TacNet. I would suggest lowering the inner ring to maybe 4-5m or buffing the range slightly at the cost of precision. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 553	Posted - 2016.01.04 21:58:00 - [64] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. But all scouts get under the creodron flux with 1 damp (Gal, Cal) or 2 damps (min, amarr)... Am I missing something? It would make more sense if you were complaining from a non-scout suit's perspective.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:29:00 - [65] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. But all scouts get under the creodron flux with 1 damp (Gal, Cal) or 2 damps (min, amarr)... Am I missing something? It would make more sense if you were complaining from a non-scout suit's perspective. You're correct. Not sure what Deadcatz is getting at, but he is right that the Creodron Flux needs work. Its scan area is 5x - 6x greater than the next in line, and it is the primary source of permascan. Last we heard from the Devs, permascan is bad for gameplay. Assuming they haven't since changed their minds, tuning the Creodron Flux would be a big step in the right direction. Would love to see Active Scan mechanics changed such that Active Scanning involved more of an active effort; something like a reptool. If that's off the table, permascan could just as readily be reigned in by simply nerfing the base stats of problematic scanners. For instance, drop the Creodron Flux scan angle from 90 degrees to 60 and its range from 200m to 150m. Dropsuit Usage Rates
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 553	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:31:00 - [66] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Aren't you only completely trumped at what.. 6 meters? You're almost overlapping blips on tacnet, it's somewhat fair game at that point - if he happens to be looking at tacnet at that point, you both have a chance to kill each other, knifer with the upper hand most likely, You have your cloak to stalk and strike at an opportune moment when he is preoccupied to. With 3 damps on a min scout, you haven't forgone speed and tank entirely. The min scout has the highest innate speed, and you could still stack 3 shields for tank.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:32:00 - [67] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. But all scouts get under the creodron flux with 1 damp (Gal, Cal) or 2 damps (min, amarr)... Am I missing something? It would make more sense if you were complaining from a non-scout suit's perspective. Because the minscout has 3 low slots,and the amarr has four. Two or more damps to evade one piece of equipment is far too much. But gimping the sh!t out of your suit to evade one shmuck with a scanner isn't fair. Because you must fully invest skill points in dampening(and equip multiple damps) and a scout suit and this costs quite a bit,all someone else needs do is grab a gal logi and a scanner and all your investments are instantly negated. I did not just spend a small fortune to have a scout suit that can be picked up very easy and through walls I might add. Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:48:00 - [68] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? 1. Aren't you only completely trumped at what.. 6 meters? 2. You're almost overlapping blips on tacnet, it's somewhat fair game at that point - if he happens to be looking at tacnet at that point, you both have a chance to kill each other, knifer with the upper hand most likely, You have your cloak to stalk and strike at an opportune moment when he is preoccupied to. 1. Correct; 6 meters is the most common, though inner ring range varies by unit (5-9 meters without range extenders; up to 12 meters with range extenders). 2. In a 1v1 setting, perhaps you're right; but it is no longer a 1v1 setting once the Scout is painted to squad tacnet. MedFrames get an "incoming backstab" warning even against a max damp'd MinScout at a nominal investment of 1 precision enhancer. In the case of a single damp'd Scout, they get the "incoming backstab" warning for free (0 precision enhancers). I'd argue that the MedFrame's "incoming backstab" warning should come at greater investment than the current. I'd also argue backstab gameplay would be better balanced if inner ring returns were not be shared with squad. Dropsuit Usage Rates
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 553	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:52:00 - [69] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. But all scouts get under the creodron flux with 1 damp (Gal, Cal) or 2 damps (min, amarr)... Am I missing something? It would make more sense if you were complaining from a non-scout suit's perspective. Because the minscout has 3 low slots,and the amarr has four. Two or more damps to evade one piece of equipment is far too much. But gimping the sh!t out of your suit to evade one shmuck with a scanner isn't fair. Because you must fully invest skill points in dampening(and equip multiple damps) and a scout suit and this costs quite a bit,all someone else needs do is grab a gal logi and a scanner and all your investments are instantly negated. I did not just spend a small fortune to have a scout suit that can be picked up very easy and through walls I might add. Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? It's not 2 or more damps, it's 1 or 2 damps to get under the creo permascans. And 1 or 2 damps is certainly not gimping your suit. The gal and cal scout manage roughly 400 - 450 hp at 9 -10ms/s at 20db. If u want stealth as a priority chose 1 of those suits. Even a double damped double shields amarr scout as a pseudo gal scout will do. Your investment argument is just lolz. The same can be said about the gal logi. You need to skill into all the relevant skills blah blah blah. You are not entirely negated by the gal logi, especially if you are a scout. Yes the gal logi has a lot of health, maybe 600 armor and 150 shield or so, and is slow and easily scannable on passives- nothing a 20db shotty scout can't handle. I agree that scouts need some reworking, and scans need a nerf, but it just seems like you're a scrubby scout and I don't know what you're on about.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 22:54:00 - [70] - Quote I dunno anymore. I was arguing for the benefit of the scouts who are forced to gimp themselves to evade the evil galogis. But now I don't give a sh!t. Its the stupid creodron flux active scanner and the galogi combined. Just Nerf the precision or actually make scanners cost more pg/CPU and bring down the range so we can actually have a chance to kill the fcking fckface who's ruining the entire match. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!

MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 553	Posted - 2016.01.04 23:11:00 - [71] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? 1 damp on a gal or cal scout is not gimping the suit, they both maintain a great combination of speed, hp, and ewar. The min and amarr require 2 damps to get under the gal logi perma scans because their bonuses are not stealth orientated however, they both have more base speed (MN) and hp (AM) , compared to the gal and cal scout, so they somewhat keep what they would lose by sacrificing that 2nd slot for a damp. But as I said in a previous post - you'd want to prioritize the gal or cal scout when you want effective stealth suits.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 23:15:00 - [72] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? 1 damp on a gal or cal scout is not gimping the suit, they both maintain a great combination of speed, hp, and ewar. The min and amarr require 2 damps to get under the gal logi perma scans because their bonuses are not stealth orientated however, they both have more base speed (MN) and hp (AM) , compared to the gal and cal scout, so they somewhat keep what they would lose by sacrificing that 2nd slot for a damp. But as I said in a previous post - you'd want to prioritize the gal or cal scout when you want effective stealth suits. counterargument.png Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 553	Posted - 2016.01.04 23:24:00 - [73] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? 1 damp on a gal or cal scout is not gimping the suit, they both maintain a great combination of speed, hp, and ewar. The min and amarr require 2 damps to get under the gal logi perma scans because their bonuses are not stealth orientated however, they both have more base speed (MN) and hp (AM) , compared to the gal and cal scout, so they somewhat keep what they would lose by sacrificing that 2nd slot for a damp. But as I said in a previous post - you'd want to prioritize the gal or cal scout when you want effective stealth suits. counterargument.png I don't know how people took this thread seriously in the first place, that's the sad part. I thought you were QQ trolling.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.04 23:33:00 - [74] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? 1 damp on a gal or cal scout is not gimping the suit, they both maintain a great combination of speed, hp, and ewar. The min and amarr require 2 damps to get under the gal logi perma scans because their bonuses are not stealth orientated however, they both have more base speed (MN) and hp (AM) , compared to the gal and cal scout, so they somewhat keep what they would lose by sacrificing that 2nd slot for a damp. But as I said in a previous post - you'd want to prioritize the gal or cal scout when you want effective stealth suits. counterargument.png I don't know how people took this thread seriously in the first place, that's the sad part. I thought you were QQ trolling. Correction. I was throwing some bait to get the community roused to garner the drive to actually do something. P.s Scout suit fit with two or more damps because of one galogi/b]. one gal logi with multiple creodron flux active scanners can [b]scan a whole team permantly and still know that there is a damped scout in the area. Still.more evidence that ewar/scout/flux scanner/galogi is broken. Now be quiet. I'm going to go rest. My ears are bleeding for some reason. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.04 23:39:00 - [75] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: I don't know how people took this thread seriously in the first place, that's the sad part. I thought you were QQ trolling. Because GalLogi permascan, Scouts and EWAR are all fine? MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: I agree that scouts need some reworking, and scans need a nerf Oh, wait. Dropsuit Usage Rates
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.05 00:25:00 - [76] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. But all scouts get under the creodron flux with 1 damp (Gal, Cal) or 2 damps (min, amarr)... Am I missing something? It would make more sense if you were complaining from a non-scout suit's perspective. . Tldr: answer this question. Why can that gal logi have so much health and is able to permanantly keep my team on his teams HUD yet I must fit multiple profile dampeners sacrificing speed yet still be picked up and easily killed? It's not 2 or more damps, it's 1 or 2 damps to get under the creo permascans. And 1 or 2 damps is certainly not gimping your suit. The gal and cal scout manage roughly 400 - 450 hp at 9 -10ms/s at 20db. If u want stealth as a priority chose 1 of those suits. Even a double damped double shields amarr scout as a pseudo gal scout will do. I had to double take at this. Wtf is this. Are you actually suggesting stacking HP on a suit designed for speed and stealth? Not only is that akin to bring a scrub,but akin to sticking a fork in a fcking toaster. Three complex sheild extenders nets a min scout roughly 300+ sheild HP. Two complex sheild extenders nets a am scout 212 sheild HP(personal experience.) But I'm just asking,no offense,but do you have a serious mental deformity or something? Did you not account for the current meta of play? Jumpy mass drivers,gal assaults with breach assault rifles,assualt hmgs? Do you understand what damage profiles and damage mods and the rest of those modifiers mean? Do you realize that I pack an assault rifle all the time that gets my warbarge damage bonus,my level four proficiency bonus,my equipped damage mod bonus,AND the bonus vs sheilds? Do you realize that the fast time to kill that almsot all of dust weapons have? What does that meager little sheild of yours have to stand against the power of our weapons? Did you properly figure in the fact that the min scout has 80 armour that's almost nonexsistant? Considering I've run scouts and logis for my whole time as a merc,I can tell you what its like. What's it like to have such low ehp that if a heavy so much as even farts at me I die? If a flux grenade so much as dinks my Helmtet I die? Or the rather disturbing fact that most gal logis that are permascanning tend to have a squad all with mics and shared passive and active scans? And that logis themselves carry weapons? Or have better innate passive scans than assaults? Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Git Gud Bruh 0.P. 96	Posted - 2016.01.05 01:11:00 - [77] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: You don't play? Take your opinion and tuck it tightly into the smallest crevice of your arse. I agree. Im so tired of all these forum warriors who just show up on the forums to talk about fixing a game they dont play anymore. Quite surely planetside has a forum. "Militia Internet, Proto Lag" -Zandor Suzuki "Where's Taco?"- Ice Royal #IFoundTaco #TacoForCPM3
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2	Posted - 2016.01.05 01:37:00 - [78] - Quote The cloak needs a minor buff. I suggest a shorter decloak delay. It's annoyingly long. I agree we need it, but not as long as we have it. All scouts need the damp bonus, not just Gal and Cal. Without it the Am and Min scouts will always be inferior. Bonuses can be re-jigged to make this work. Focussed scanners need a range nerf. Rattati dropped the range nerf in favour of squad only sharing. But this is no longer a drawback as the whole team is in one squad. The extra drawback should be swapped back to reduced range. Profile dampeners maybe should be high slot modules. Scouts need speed and stealth. Having both these modules on low slots hurts balance. This is a big reason why Cal scouts aren't as useful. These are a few small changes that would help scouts keep up with the competition and improve racial balance.
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 413	Posted - 2016.01.05 02:16:00 - [79] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Lol every time I here someone go "kincats break hit detection" I know that they're really saying is "I can't keep track of a moving target because I have no gungame" first off I've killed plenty and have been killed by plenty of scouts. And here's the thing. They don't move fast enough to break hit detection at all. My internet is good and I can easily compensate for the rare lagspikes because dust is a laggy game and sometimes hitboxes aren't aligned with the player models. I've speedtanked before and serpentined very well and I still get hit. Because those people had aim. I've never seen shots come at me and hit me and not have my health decrease,every time I was shot I lost health. For the people that whine about kincats think about it. A:you have to stop to regain stamina B: lowslots dedicated to speed instead of armour C:cannot attack while sprinting. In response to some of the above people. A:scouts in dictionary terms:someone sent ahead of the main force to gauge the enemy force. B:the term for scout in dust means that they are meant for stealth and assassination(as described by the description) C:scouts have weapons,and I doubt someone will let them get away if spotted,therefore a scout needs to kill just like all the other suits. Even logistics get weapons. There already is a balance between health,speed and ewar,you can only have two of the three but ewar is broken for the amarr and min scouts and all suits vs a gal logi so people just go for HP and speed unless they run gal scout. Problem is the creodron flux active scanner and gallente logistics destroys any stealth the scouts may have. So unless the precision on the flux active scanner is nerfed or all scouts get a bonus to scan profile then the never ending cycle will just continue. I think the Gal logi bonus to precision should be nerfed slightly from 5% per level to 3% that way it should mean that 2 damps should get all scouts under the scans or 1 damp and a proto cloak. As for the whole inner ring argument, no it shouldn't be as good as it is but it only has a 6m radius. You can literally hide anywhere outside that radius and most things will never see you, and as scouts are so fast you could get to them and kill them before you appear on their TacNet. I would suggest lowering the inner ring to maybe 4-5m or buffing the range slightly at the cost of precision. Jesus Christ people, do NONE of you remember the period of time when Gal Scouts Dampning was OP? Why do some of you want to go back to those days? The scanner is not the biggest issue it's dampnings strength. Anytime CCP messes with this it screws everything else up. I say scanners are fine as is, leave dampners and scanning as is. It can and will get worse if altered. You know if CCP starts messing with this again they WILL break something. I sometimes wonder if they do this intentionally. You people want 100% scan immunity, and it's not happening, just accept it. That is too powerful, 100% scan proof fits should NOT exist. Doesn't matter if a scout has only 10 HP, scan immunity in good hands is the most dangerous thing in DUST, and you all know that. This thread is reminding of the tank/AV threads, the debate never ends...... (Take out fuel injectors out of the game and watch tank use plummet) My YouTube Channel
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 413	Posted - 2016.01.05 02:25:00 - [80] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: The cloak needs a minor buff. I suggest a shorter decloak delay. It's annoyingly long. I agree we need it, but not as long as we have it. All scouts need the damp bonus, not just Gal and Cal. Without it the Am and Min scouts will always be inferior. Bonuses can be re-jigged to make this work. Focussed scanners need a range nerf. Rattati dropped the range nerf in favour of squad only sharing. But this is no longer a drawback as the whole team is in one squad. The extra drawback should be swapped back to reduced range. Profile dampeners maybe should be high slot modules. Scouts need speed and stealth. Having both these modules on low slots hurts balance. This is a big reason why Cal scouts aren't as useful. These are a few small changes that would help scouts keep up with the competition and improve racial balance. I really don't want the terror that was Scout514 to happen again. No, if CCP starts messing with scouts/dampning/scanners, we'll be going back to the dark ages. Only thing keeping the easy mode 100% scan proof crutch suit fits from being spammed in DUST again are the scanners. Say what you guys want against Active Scanners, but the fact remain they ARE avoidable if you stack enough Dampners. I like how it is right now, Scouts must sacrifice all else to gain near 100% scan immunity. Fitting themselves properly they can evade Galogi Proto Flux scans. My YouTube Channel

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.05 02:33:00 - [81] - Quote Medical Crash wrote: Jesus Christ people, do NONE of you remember the period of time when Gal Scouts Dampning was OP? Why do some of you want to go back to those days? The scanner is not the biggest issue it's dampnings strength. Anytime CCP messes with this it screws everything else up. I say scanners are fine as is, leave dampners and scanning as is. It can and will get worse if altered. You know if CCP starts messing with this again they WILL break something. I sometimes wonder if they do this intentionally. You people want 100% scan immunity, and it's not happening, just accept it. That is too powerful, 100% scan proof fits should NOT exist. Doesn't matter if a scout has only 10 HP, scan immunity in good hands is the most dangerous thing in DUST, and you all know that. This thread is reminding of the tank/AV threads, the debate never ends...... (Take out fuel injectors out of the game and watch tank use plummet) You act as though even a slight adjustment would somehow return us to Scout 514. Do you have any clue how much has changed since 2014 when Scouts were last OP? * Nerfs to cloak active damp bonus. * Nerfs to cloak pool. * Nerfs to cloak recovery. * Cloakblind (passive scan range reduced by 85% while cloaked). * Fire-from-cloak fix ... plus a wonky, 3-second equip/unequip delay. * Massive nerfs to passive scans and Scout EWAR (via Falloff). * Get-out-of-jail-free, squad-shared inner rings (via Falloff). * Massive buffs to Active Scans. * Removal of directional indicator on passives. * Buffs to Assault base HP. * Buffs to Assault slot count. * Buffs to Assault regen. * Buffs to Assault DPS. * Buffs to Logi EWAR. * Delayed RE fuses. * Myofibs. * Bandwidth. * ... The Scout witch hunt is over. It's been over for a very long time. People are finally realizing that the mounding Scout nerfs might've been a bit overdone. You're telling us that there can't possibly be functional middle ground between overpowered Scouts of yesterday and what we have today? That any minor tweak will somehow circumvent all of the changes above? And that anyone who says otherwise just wants Scouts to be OP? Sounds to me like you're grasping at straws. Dropsuit Usage Rates
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 553	Posted - 2016.01.05 11:24:00 - [82] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: I had to double take at this. Wtf is this. Are you actually suggesting stacking HP on a suit designed for speed and stealth? There are no speed or stealth modules for the high slots of scouts, ALL SCOUTS SHIELD TANK, in their optimal competitive fits because all scouts have high inherent shield regen, which is why stacking shields on them is optimal, it suits the scouting role of hit and run tactics, you would need to fit armor reps to not even come close to the innate regen of shields on scouts, this is why the cal is the most survivable (bar scrambler hard counter) and the gal is the best overall because it dual tanks and maintains the fastest speed while under the permascans, this is partially also why the amarr scout is the worst scout, because the precision bonus suggests you should fit precision modules in the highs, thus leaving you with barely any shield, and basically only armor tank which you leaves you with tough choices between kincats, damps, armor plates and armor reps. From what it looks like, you're not meant to damp the amarr scout, you're meant to tank it, but the armor hp is the laughable because of how slow the suit is, and how slow the armor regens. I would like to see the amarr scout with a 1 high 5 low slot layout, giving a better combination of speed, hp, ewar, and a precison buff to compensate. maybe deadcatz wrote: Three complex sheild extenders nets a min scout roughly 300+ sheild HP. Two complex sheild extenders nets a am scout 212 sheild HP(personal experience.) those shield extenders more than double your survability vs armor weapons on an amarr scout and gal scout. maybe deadcatz wrote: But I'm just asking,no offense,but do you have a serious mental deformity or something? Did you not account for the current meta of play? Jumpy mass drivers,gal assaults with breach assault rifles,assualt hmgs? Do you understand what damage profiles and damage mods and the rest of those modifiers mean? Do you realize that I pack an assault rifle all the time that gets my warbarge damage bonus,my level four proficiency bonus,my equipped damage mod bonus,AND the bonus vs sheilds? Do you realize that the fast time to kill that almsot all of dust weapons have? What does that meager little sheild of yours have to stand against the power of our weapons? Did you properly figure in the fact that the min scout has 80 armour that's almost nonexsistant? You keep digging your grave deeper. You're not meant to face any of those listed cases head on anyway, if you do, you're not scouting properly and you're taking a risk and fighting battles with the lower hand. maybe deadcatz wrote: Considering I've run scouts and logis for my whole time as a merc,I can tell you what its like. What's it like to have such low ehp that if a heavy so much as even farts at me I die? If a flux grenade so much as dinks my Helmtet I die? Or the rather disturbing fact that most gal logis that are permascanning tend to have a squad all with mics and shared passive and active scans? And that logis themselves carry weapons? Or have better innate passive scans than assaults? You are contradicting yourself, you're telling me I have a mental deformity when you're complaing about having low hp and then asking me why stack hp on a suit made for speed and stealth. Once again I say, all scouts get under the gal logi permascans. The gal and cal are extremely effective with 1 damp, the amarr and min need 2 damps because the amarr scout has a scout hunter bonus and the min scout has a OHK almost every suit bonus.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 184	Posted - 2016.01.05 11:57:00 - [83] - Quote *PC and any other mode Scout here You make the trade-off.. harder to detect for easier to kill.. it's your choice. Don't get me wrong, the DPS on some weapons is too strong and is hella OP Vs Scouts But. the aim is to kill him before he can engage you, if you are not doing that, you're doing it wrong. This thread is just screaming "it's not fair, I want it to be easier for me" But at the same time there are some good points.. but they are useless without the following.. - EWAR rework - Skill Bonus changes (Scout Bonus = reduction to Scan Profile) - Changes to Racial bonus for CA/GA to account for this ^ - Cloak Field Skill = Reduction to Cloak fitting on Scouts ? Hp is interesting.. as it is all scouts shield tank, I'd know all 4 races I have have shields - the issue here is Armour is useless without reps, which you don't have the slots for on top on damps = Armour is useless.. what could be changed here I wonder.. I scouted before it was good, when it was OP, and all through the rise of Leapfrog Assaults so far.. they work.. The only thing I am certain of, for CCP to make the right changes to Scouts, they need to make changes to near everything.
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 184	Posted - 2016.01.05 12:00:00 - [84] - Quote The result would be to even the dampening for each scout, so 1 damp = hard to scan, 2 damps = invisible.. The problem doing this is players like Saxonmish/Rafa/LHughes may decide to go back to slayer Scouts sigh CCP can balance the suits, but they have no control over the scrubs
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.05 17:35:00 - [85] - Quote Sbundo'D wrote: The result would be to even the dampening for each scout, so 1 damp = hard to scan, 2 damps = invisible.. The problem doing this is players like Saxonmish/Rafa/LHughes may decide to go back to slayer Scouts sigh CCP can balance the suits, but they have no control over the scrubs Should they, those slayer scouts would find themselves far less efficient than the imbalanced slayer scouts from times past. I think it important to point this out to those who might otherwise associate the phrase "slayer scout" with the mess we witnessed following Uprising 1.8. While mercs in Scout suits killing things does not necessarily translate to imbalance, mercs in Scout suits killing more efficiently than anything else on the field absolutely translates to imbalance. This is what we observed following 1.8. Assaults were displaced as Scouts were more efficient at killing things. Which brings us to another major difference between now and then. Assaults today are much stronger than the Assaults from Uprising 1.8. More hitpoints. More slots. Better regen. Better DPS. And better mobility for those running myofibs. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Sbundo'D Dead Meta Game 187	Posted - 2016.01.05 23:23:00 - [86] - Quote The "Slayer Scouts" I mention... Used CA/GA Scouts and Proto Cloak (while it had stronger damp bonus) The result was a 700+ HP Scout that was hard to detect.. I recall fighting Rafa in particular, with 2 Shield Ext and 500+ armour on a Gk.0 Scout - incase he reads this and thinks he made an impression.. he did.. as the biggest scrub I have ever seen
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.06 03:21:00 - [87] - Quote A 700HP Scout? That can't be true. Whatever you think you saw, good sir, it can't possibly have happened. I have it on good authority from CPM1 that the high-hitpoint Scouts referred to as "Assault Lite" did not really exist. Assault Lite was fable cooked up by the Barbershop. Zatara Rought himself said so. Why would he lie? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.06 04:02:00 - [88] - Quote But if he was lying ... It certainly wouldn't have hurt to implement a class-wide efficacy bonus to profile dampeners. No damps? No profile bonus. Want to stack HP modules on your Scout suit and pretend to be an Assault? That's fine, but you're going to get scanned like an Assault. Should profile normalization gain any traction, it might not be a bad idea to bundle dampener efficacy alongside it. Just in case. Dropsuit Usage Rates
korrah silain True Illuminate 206	Posted - 2016.01.06 08:23:00 - [89] - Quote I love the false dichotomy here and assumption that high slots are/will only optimally be used for shields, and lows are/will only be used for armor, and that's why we need to make damn sure that the scouts need to fill all their module slots with dampeners so that they are still killable. That's bullshit for four simple reasons: kin cats, precision extenders, cardiac regulators and myofibs. Let me ask you a question: have you ever heard the perspective that to make better suits you play to the suits inherent strengths? That is stack health on heavies, etc? HP stacking scouts would be stupid, especially considering that they really can't turn invisible even with stealth (seriously are you saying that you can't see a cloaked scout on the move at all? Because that's a dirty lie and you know it) not would be far more efficient to equip biotics or ewar modules, play to strengths and all. The other thing that bothers me is how this threads proclamations that one can duck permascan by running two dampners, which is flawed for two reasons: 1) it assumes every one does, can, and will run proto, and 2) it assumes level 5 in all skills. Normally skill and equipment imbalance only gives an edge, that is with proper gun game and tactics an adv, of std assault, for example can take a proto assault out, the scout however lives or dies on its stealth. You have all said it yourself multiple times "if you are going in for a frontal assault you are doing it wrong" well guess what permascan FORCES us to do? It turns everything into a frontal assault. So, essentially where we are at to duck permascan is use all to half of the low slots which could be contributing to our mobility in order to be able to fulfil our role. I challenge you to point to another class who requires a third of their modules to be used in a certain way (assuming, of course you are sufficiently skilled, and wealthy enough to run them at proto levels, and not compromise your fitting) or be reduced to hoping and praying that a common meta strategy by some slight miracle of the ancestors' mercy doesn't show up in a match. Can you point to any? At all? Stop fearing the theoretical hp stacked slayer scout of yesterday which has been made largely infeasible by other buffs, and other nerfs, and let us do our goddamn job you cowards. you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 555	Posted - 2016.01.06 10:03:00 - [90] - Quote korrah silain wrote: The other thing that bothers me is how this threads proclamations that one can duck permascan by running two dampners, which is flawed for two reasons: 1) it assumes every one does, can, and will run proto, and 2) it assumes level 5 in all skills. The same can be said about permascans: it assumes it's a maxed level 5 proto gal logi with proto scans filling QQ-half to all of its equip. slots with scans-QQ. Also, it's only 2 proto damps if you're running an amarr or min scout. You can get under PROTO permascans with gal or cal scout with 2 BASIC DAMPS. Or 1 basic and 1 enhanced damp if you only have level 3 in damps. The min and amarr scout are not as stealth focused because their bonuses are for another job. This is why we look at PC for balance issues, because everyone is most likely maxed out in the role they are using. korrah silain wrote: You have all said it yourself multiple times "if you are going in for a frontal assault you are doing it wrong" well guess what permascan FORCES us to do?. it only takes 1 damn proto damp to get under permascans. Or 2 if you're using the min or amarr scout. korrah silain wrote: It turns everything into a frontal assault. So, essentially where we are at to duck permascan is use all to half of the low slots which could be contributing to our mobility in order to be able to fulfil our role. 1 damn damp to get under proto permascans, 2 on the min and amarr which all can still fit a kincat to be more mobile.[/quote] korrah silain wrote: I challenge you to point to another class who requires a third of their modules to be used in a certain way (assuming, of course you are sufficiently skilled, and wealthy enough to run them at proto levels, and not compromise your fitting). In the same why you assume it's a level 5 proto gal logi with level 5 proto scans, we can assume it's a proto scout with level 5 damps that has to be compared to it.

shaman oga Dead Man's Game 5	Posted - 2016.01.06 10:48:00 - [91] - Quote Passive scan range reduction while cloaked needs to go. Make all cloak last forever (just like rep tool), add little profile bonus and delay bonus to make upper tier worth. Passive scan only shared while not cloaked. Buff hack speed to silly level. That is what a scout should be. An invisible provider of problems for the enemy team, not a slayer. Regressed to blueberry level =ƒÿ»
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.06 12:49:00 - [92] - Quote shaman oga wrote: That is what a scout should be. An invisible provider of problems for the enemy team, not a slayer. Any chance I could get you to qualify this statement? "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean a variety of different things to different people. To those players who don't like Scouts or perhaps more accurately, don't like getting killed by Scouts ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things (especially not [insert class]) and shouldn't even aspire to kill things. To those players like Rattati who feel that all unit types should be capable of killing ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things with greater efficiency than Heavies or Assaults. To those players who can appreciate the effort of setting and luring an enemy into an RE trap or those who are addicted to the edge-of-your-seat thrill of stalking and shanking an enemy with 3-4 times your HP and the power to vaporize you in a split second ... to those players, "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts are supposed to kill in a different way than the frontal slayer roles. So what's your translation? And why? Dropsuit Usage Rates
korrah silain True Illuminate 209	Posted - 2016.01.06 13:11:00 - [93] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: korrah silain wrote: The other thing that bothers me is how this threads proclamations that one can duck permascan by running two dampners, which is flawed for two reasons: 1) it assumes every one does, can, and will run proto, and 2) it assumes level 5 in all skills. The same can be said about permascans: it assumes it's a maxed level 5 proto gal logi with proto scans filling QQ-half to all of its equip. slots with scans-QQ. Also, it's only 2 proto damps if you're running an amarr or min scout. You can get under PROTO permascans with gal or cal scout with 2 BASIC DAMPS. Or 1 basic and 1 enhanced damp if you only have level 3 in damps. The min and amarr scout are not as stealth focused because their bonuses are for another job. This is why we look at PC for balance issues, because everyone is most likely maxed out in the role they are using. korrah silain wrote: You have all said it yourself multiple times "if you are going in for a frontal assault you are doing it wrong" well guess what permascan FORCES us to do?. it only takes 1 damn proto damp to get under permascans. Or 2 if you're using the min or amarr scout. korrah silain wrote: It turns everything into a frontal assault. So, essentially where we are at to duck permascan is use all to half of the low slots which could be contributing to our mobility in order to be able to fulfil our role. 1 damn damp to get under proto permascans, 2 on the min and amarr which all can still fit a kincat to be more mobile. korrah silain wrote: I challenge you to point to another class who requires a third of their modules to be used in a certain way (assuming, of course you are sufficiently skilled, and wealthy enough to run them at proto levels, and not compromise your fitting). In the same way you assume it's a level 5 proto gal logi with level 5 proto scans, we can assume it's a proto scout with level 5 damps that has to be compared to it. Points 1-3: so, yeah still requires all your low slots(caldari) or just MOST of your low slots to get under permascan, still doesn't negate my point. Logis can still be effective if they chose other equipment choices Final point: nice dodge there, seriously you basically just responded to the aside which was not really the point, the point is that scouts are required to outfit themselves in a very constraining way to do their role, they are the only class which is required to use a third of their fitting space in one way, also your contention that min and ammar scouts aren't "meant" to be stealthy is ******* ridiculous, if that's the case, can we get them an HP buff, after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 558	Posted - 2016.01.06 13:56:00 - [94] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Points 1-3: so, yeah still requires all your low slots(caldari) it takes only 1 low slot on the caldari, of course that's half of the suit's low slots it's a caldari suit - lowest low slot count in it's class, if you want more low slots chose amarr or gal scout. The cal has 4 highs, which is likely to be stacked with shields - 450hp with crazy regen whilst under permascans, you can even fit a kincat on top of that - an extremely effective fit, if you consider that an ineffective suit you must be a phenomenally bad scout. korrah silain wrote: or just MOST of your low slots to get under permascan, still doesn't negate my point. IT ONLY TAKES 1 SLOT to get under proto permascans on the cal and gal scout. korrah silain wrote: Final point: nice dodge there, seriously you basically just responded to the aside which was not really the point, the point is that scouts are required to outfit themselves in a very constraining way to do their role, they are the only class which is required to use a third of their fitting space in one way, also your contention that min and ammar scouts aren't "meant" to be stealthy is ***** ridiculous, if that's the case, can we get them an HP buff, after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? 1 damp is not a very constraining way at all. I also never said the amarr and min scout are not meant to be stealthy, I said they have bonuses focused on other jobs, they are stealthy, just not as stealthy. The amarr scout is meant to be the scout hunter, it's not meant to be as stealthy as the gal and cal but it can be, it has the most innate hp, so what you lose by putting a second damp on, you somewhat compensate for it in hp - leveling you out with the cal and gal scout. The min scout is meant to be a OHK any suit and speed hacker, you can be as stealthy as a cal or gal, and what you lose by fitting a second damp, you keep in speed. You may or may not be as effective as a cal or gal at stealth but they don't get your bonuses either, they can also try being pseudo amarr or min scouts, but they won't be as effective at it. korrah silain wrote:** after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? Don't know where you got that from.
korrah silain True Illuminate 210	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:26:00 - [95] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: korrah silain wrote: Points 1-3: so, yeah still requires all your low slots(caldari) it takes only 1 low slot on the caldari, of course that's half of the suit's low slots it's a caldari suit - lowest low slot count in it's class, if you want more low slots choose an amarr or gal scout. The cal has 4 highs, which is likely to be stacked with shields - 450hp with crazy regen whilst under permascans, you can even fit a kincat on top of that - an extremely effective fit, if you consider that an ineffective suit you must be a phenomenally bad scout. korrah silain wrote: or just MOST of your low slots to get under permascan, still doesn't negate my point. IT ONLY TAKES 1 SLOT to get under proto permascans on the cal and gal scout. korrah silain wrote: Final point: nice dodge there, seriously you basically just responded to the aside which was not really the point, the point is that scouts are required to outfit themselves in a very constraining way to do their role, they are the only class which is required to use a third of their fitting space in one way, also your contention that min and ammar scouts aren't "meant" to be stealthy is ***** ridiculous, if that's the case, can we get them an HP buff, after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? 1 damp is not a very constraining way at all. I also never said the amarr and min scout are not meant to be stealthy, I said they have bonuses focused on other jobs, they are stealthy, just not as stealthy. The amarr scout is meant to be the scout hunter, it's not meant to be as stealthy as the gal and cal but it can be, it has the most innate hp, so what you lose by putting a second damp on, you somewhat compensate for it in hp - leveling you out with the cal and gal scout. The min scout is meant to be an OHK any suit and speed hacker, you can be as stealthy as a cal or gal, and what you lose by fitting a second damp, you keep in speed. You may or may not be as effective as a cal or gal at stealth but they don't get your bonuses either, they can also try being pseudo amarr or min scouts, but they won't be as effective at it. korrah silain wrote:** after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? Don't know where you got that from. Point 1 no it is not likely to be stacked with shields because as you have said if you are frontal assaulting you are failing it is likely to have either myofibs, precision enhancers, or DMg mods. Further you are again assuming proto their, when earlier you said at level 3 it will take two. If you consider tanking a viable strategy you clearly don't scout. Point two: said two in previous reply, now back to assuming 1, further the fact that they can't get below perma scans(specifically the mins) without that huge constraint still nueters them, as for the ammar: oh yeeeeah cause the slowest scout is deffinatly going to be able to hunt the faster ones...what the hell is with your fascination and paranoia with scouts reaching a phenomenal 450 hp, anyway? That's still just swiss cheese if they are caught, you are still ignoring all the buffs assaults have had, and other nerfs scouts have had, such as the cloak nerfs. They are never going to be assault lite again, and that is good, but as they are now they are way too constrained by the meta of scanners. Well perhaps not your personal battle cry, but that of your ilk. you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:28:00 - [96] - Quote 4 cmp shields + cmp damp + cmp kincat does not make for a particularly strong or competitive calscout. You aren't going to fit much else on it and you're instagib bait for every flavor of AR, ScR or shotgun. Armor is still king for a reason, and you have next to none. As for fast shield recovery, sure it is nice so long as you aren't instagibbed, but it isn't unique anymore. Everyone has fast shield recovery now. Even GA Assaults. Dropsuit Usage Rates
korrah silain True Illuminate 210	Posted - 2016.01.06 14:37:00 - [97] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 4 cmp shields + cmp damp + cmp kincat does not make for a particularly strong or competitive calscout. You aren't going to fit much else on it and you're instagib bait for every flavor of AR, ScR or shotgun. Armor is still king for a reason, and you have next to none. As for fast shield recovery, sure it is nice so long as you aren't instagibbed, but it isn't unique anymore. Everyone has fast shield recovery now. Even GA Assaults. You're going to be scanned and painted to squad tacnet every time you get within shotgun range of a MedFrame. They don't even need a precision enhancer. Nuh uh cause look at that hp stack, that means its automatically a slayer scout cause all the hps! And if we give scouts more fitting room it will lead to them out killing assaults because the assaults are still the same, and all the other factors that were changed weren't changed! you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 558	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:08:00 - [98] - Quote korrah silain wrote: Point 1 no it is not likely to be stacked with shields because as you have said if you are frontal assaulting you are failing it is likely to have either myofibs, precision enhancers, or DMg mods. I never said you should frontal assault with it, but it certainly makes all the difference when strafing or running away from an hmg, precision modules on a cal scout would be pointless, damage mods wouldn't make much of a difference if you have a shotgun, a rifle on a scout is the slowest way to kill something as a scout, and I've personally wouldn't know much about running myos on scouts that seems scrubby. I'm not arguing what you want to run in your high slots though. korrah silain wrote: Further you are again assuming proto their, when earlier you said at level 3 it will take two. I'm assuming proto because the scans you are talking about is proto, for the 3rd time. korrah silain wrote: If you consider tanking a viable strategy you clearly don't scout. I don't consider pure tanking a viable strategy on scouts, I never suggested it. The most effective overall cal scout fit I have seen for months in pc, was a cal scout with shields in the highs, why? Because there's no other useful scout modules in the high slots. korrah silain wrote: Point two: said two in previous reply, now back to assuming 1, further the fact that they can't get below perma scans(specifically the mins) without that huge constraint still nueters them, as for the ammar: oh yeeeeah cause the slowest scout is deffinatly going to be able to hunt the faster ones...what the hell is with your fascination and paranoia with scouts reaching a phenomenal 450 hp, anyway? That's still just swiss cheese if they are caught, I already addressed this, the min and amarr can get under permascans with 2 damps, of course this puts strain on the suit, but they still keep their other bonuses. The amarr scout is fundamentally bad, no argument their , I already suggested a 1 high 5 low slot layout for them in this thread. I'm not fascinated with scouts having 450 hp, I only suggested that for the cal scout because of the less uselful scout modules in the highs, 450 shield hp equates to about 700 hp when strafing in front of armor weapons, it is effective. korrah silain wrote: you are still ignoring all the buffs assaults have had, and other nerfs scouts have had, such as the cloak nerfs. They are never going to be assault lite again, and that is good, but as they are now they are way too constrained by the meta of scanners. Well perhaps not your personal battle cry, but that of your ilk. I acknowledge the assaults are very effective now. I never said scouts were going to be assault lite again, nor do I fear they will. As I said before, I agree that scans need a nerf, and some cloak nerf remissions are due. I'm just here bullying scouts that don't know what they should complain about.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:23:00 - [99] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: I'm just here bullying scouts that don't know what they should complain about. Not gonna lie. I laughed when I read this. PS: If precision enhancers are indeed useless on a CalScout (of all things), EWAR's even more borked than I'd realized! Dropsuit Usage Rates
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 560	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:27:00 - [100] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: 4 cmp shields + cmp damp + cmp kincat does not make for a particularly strong or competitive calscout. You aren't going to fit much else on it. What else were you planning to take? You're right, I looked at my fit, it has 1 enhanced shield. And a basic hive. Still effective at killing. Though I use the gal scout for ultimate scout efficiency. Adipem Nothi wrote: That, and you're instagib bait for every flavor of AR, ScR or shotgun. Armor is still king for a reason, and you have next to none. Yes, of course there's the hard counter to shields, whether that's balanced or not is another story. That's also how the amarr scout feels when it runs into a CR, HMG or RR. But it's worse because of how slow it is. The kincat on the cal scout is supposed aid in evading the hard counters, as hard as it is. Adipem Nothi wrote: As for fast shield recovery, sure it is nice so long as you aren't instagibbed, but it isn't unique anymore. Everyone has fast shield recovery now. Even GA Assaults. I brought that up because the cal scout returning to full hp in seconds is beautiful for hit and run tactics. Adipem Nothi wrote: You're also going to be scanned and painted to squad tacnet every time you get within shotgun range of a MedFrame. They don't even need a precision enhancer. Doesn't the proto damp get you under this? As I said before, it's fair game at that point, but with squad share I don't feel the same. Adipem Nothi wrote: Not to say the loadout can't be made to work under the right set of circumstances, rather that it doesn't hold up as well you might expect given today's meta and environment. I ran variations of the above quite alot in past and present builds. It used to work; now, not so much. "You must be a terrible scout if you can't do well with this" may have been the case before but it is not presently accurate. Stil curious about your loadout though. Last I checked, 4 cmp extenders and a kincat doesn't leave much room. I find it particularly useful in city maps where hmg presence is high.

MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 560	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:32:00 - [101] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: I'm just here bullying scouts that don't know what they should complain about. Not gonna lie. I laughed when I read this. PS: If precision enhancers are indeed useless on a CalScout (of all things), EWAR's even more borked than I'd realized! You're just as invisible to other scouts as you are to them, for the most part, gal logi makes it redundant. I can't remember numbers off hand, but there was a more profound reason. Maybe later.
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:38:00 - [102] - Quote How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
MexXx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution 560	Posted - 2016.01.06 15:48:00 - [103] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect?
maybe deadcatz Serris Inc 2	Posted - 2016.01.06 17:04:00 - [104] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.08 16:37:00 - [105] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: You're also going to be scanned and painted to squad tacnet every time you get within shotgun range of a MedFrame. They don't even need a precision enhancer. Doesn't the proto damp get you under this? As I said before, it's fair game at that point, but with squad share I don't feel the same. Nope. One proto damp on a max-skilled CalScout gets your profile down to 20dB. If you want to beat an Assault or Logi's unenhanced inner ring, you'll need to run damps in both of your lows. Logis and Assaults -- with those module slots -- get this for free. Who's having cake? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.08 16:46:00 - [106] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good for what needs fixin', would now be a good time to fix EWAR? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Ankbar Latrommi Roghnaigh Do Scrios 158	Posted - 2016.01.08 16:49:00 - [107] - Quote korrah silain wrote: and blatant visibility of the cloak I have no idea what you are referring to. Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:01:00 - [108] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good feel for what needs fixin', would now be a good time for an EWAR tuneup? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015? How would you change it up exactly? I mean we don't want scouts to be completely invisible but at the same time, we don't want Gal logis perma-scanning. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:02:00 - [109] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good feel for what needs fixin', would now be a good time for an EWAR tuneup? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015? How would you change it up exactly? I mean we don't want scouts to be completely invisible but at the same time, we don't want Gal logis perma-scanning. I've got numbers and ideas, Echo, but I also have to run off to work. Can I get back to you on this a bit later? Dropsuit Usage Rates
Ankbar Latrommi Roghnaigh Do Scrios 158	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:03:00 - [110] - Quote I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least) Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS

Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:08:00 - [111] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: I've got numbers and ideas, Echo, but I also have to run off to work. Can I get back to you on this a bit later? Sure Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 5	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:21:00 - [112] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: shaman oga wrote: That is what a scout should be. An invisible provider of problems for the enemy team, not a slayer. Any chance I could get you to qualify this statement? "Scouts should not be slayers" likely means different things to different people. To those players who don't like Scouts or perhaps more accurately, don't like getting killed by Scouts ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things (especially not [insert class]) and shouldn't want or try to kill things. To those players like Rattati who feel that all unit types should be capable of killing ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things with greater efficiency than Heavies or Assaults. To those players who can appreciate the effort of setting and luring an enemy into an RE trap or those who are addicted to the edge-of-your-seat thrill of stalking and shanking an enemy with 3-4 times your HP and the power to vaporize you in a split second ... to those players, "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts are supposed to kill in a different way than the frontal slayer roles. These are the first three that came to mind; there are no doubt many more translations. What's it mean to you? And why? take it like: logi are not slayers. You can slay with logi, but it's not the optimal suit to do so. Regressed to blueberry level =ƒÿ»
Echo 1991 WarRavens Imperium Eden 1	Posted - 2016.01.08 17:22:00 - [113] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least) See, I don't see a problem with the inner ring being able to pick up just about anything, cos it's literally right in front of you. By the time you've noticed you're probably gonna die anyway so it's not a real problem like the scanner. I love the scanner, it's my favourite piece of equipment but something needs to change. They are too strong on a gal logi and either the Gal Logi needs a nerf, the scanner gets nerfed or scouts get buffed. I personally don't want scouts getting buffed, we saw what happened when they didn't need to fit EWAR and it was horrid, no one wants that again. The scanner being nerfed isn't going to help either cos then scouts don't have to worry at all if the they have one damp so this is also counterproductive (unless the nerf is well thought out and not just lol nerf precision 15%). That leaves the Gal Logi. I know how good scans are on this and it's crazy. 21db scan for 200m is insane, it needs to be addressed, maybe lower precision by 10% or 2% per level. Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls. #PortDust514 'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
dusty5678 0uter.Heaven 410	Posted - 2016.01.08 18:04:00 - [114] - Quote No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote: As a Minscout, I would certainly not mind getting an innate bonus to not being lit up constantly. If you're being 'constantly' scanned you're doing it wrong. Long live Queen ZarZar <3 50 - "I survived Dust 514."
Abraxis Mangelor Breach Team 16	Posted - 2016.01.08 20:55:00 - [115] - Quote Scout suits are just fine. Just choose the role by the race, AS IT SHOULD BE. A scout generally picks two specialties from the following list: Invisi-Damped Fast Runner Fast Hacker Backstabber (cqc gank) Splash-monkey (range splash gank) Jumper Passive Intel Anyone who wants more than 2 from that list needs to fight in something other than a scout suit for a while and get a grip on what ROLES really are.
Medical Crash Systematic Engineers Unlimited 414	Posted - 2016.01.09 00:03:00 - [116] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Ankbar Latrommi wrote: I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least) See, I don't see a problem with the inner ring being able to pick up just about anything, cos it's literally right in front of you. By the time you've noticed you're probably gonna die anyway so it's not a real problem like the scanner. I love the scanner, it's my favourite piece of equipment but something needs to change. They are too strong on a gal logi and either the Gal Logi needs a nerf, the scanner gets nerfed or scouts get buffed. I personally don't want scouts getting buffed, we saw what happened when they didn't need to fit EWAR and it was horrid, no one wants that again. The scanner being nerfed isn't going to help either cos then scouts don't have to worry at all if the they have one damp so this is also counterproductive (unless the nerf is well thought out and not just lol nerf precision 15%). That leaves the Gal Logi. I know how good scans are on this and it's crazy. 21db scan for 200m is insane, it needs to be addressed, maybe lower precision by 10% or 2% per level. The cooldown times of the scanners are already too much, I think they've been nerfed enough already. Just leave everything alone until DUST gets a new port. There are better ideas out there, but I doubt tey would work with the outdated hardware we have. My YouTube Channel
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.09 18:57:00 - [117] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good feel for what needs fixin', would now be a good time for an EWAR tuneup? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015? How would you change it up exactly? I mean we don't want scouts to be completely invisible but at the same time, we don't want Gal logis perma-scanning. GalLogi permascan is an EWAR-related balance problem, but it isn't the only EWAR balance problem. There are a few of other things in the EWAR department which could use some polish. If I were calling the shots, below are the changes I'd implement (assuming my goal was balanced EWAR interplay). The changes are broken into two groups: the first assumes that mechanical changes are on-the-table, the second assumes that we have to stay within the bounds of hotfix ... [i]Finetuning EWAR (w/ mechanical changes) Active Scan Mechanics - Fix permascan via new scan mechanics. Lots of different, good ideas out there. Beam scanners. Blip scanners. Etc. Probably best to put up a thread and weigh all the different options. No particular preference here so long as permascan is fixed once-and-for-all. It'd also be nice if the new mechanic did not afford KB/M special benefits (i.e. 360 spinscanning). Active Scanner Stats - Buff recon assist WP by +10 points (all scanners). Buff STD scanner precision from 46dB to 40dB. Buff ADV scanner precision from 36dB to 32dB. Nerf Creodron Flux scan angle from 90 to 60 degrees and range from 200 to 150 meters. Passive Scan Mechanics - Disable shared passives. Passive Scan Stats - Set base scan range of all units to 20m. Buff commando base precision from 55dB to 50dB. Buff range extender output from 15% to 30%. Cloak Mechanics - Keep decloak delay at 3 seconds, but set all other usage delays (equip, unequip, etc) to 1 second. If this for whatever reason can't be accomplished, reduce the current "universal" delay from 3 to 2 seconds. Cloak Stats - Buff profile reduction from 0-5-10 to 5-10-15. (This will not benefit CA or GA Scouts but will give MN and AM Scouts an alternative means and opportunity by which to duck 21dB active scans, assuming they have good timing and are running a proto cloak.) AM Scout - Rework racial bonus from +precision to something else. Biotic Efficacy -- which Rattati has been considering since HF Alpha -- is a personal favorite; ScP headshot and reload speed is another fun option. Scout Racial Bonus - Apply full cloak fitting reduction bonus at Level 1 racial Scout (rather than incrementally). [i]Finetuning EWAR (w/out mechanical changes) Active Scan Mechanics - Fix permascan via use limitations and decreased potency. Disable team-shared scans. Limit all suits to one scanner of each type per suit (for instance, Flux + Proximity + Focused + Stable would be permitted while Flux x4 would not be permitted). Nerf active scanner cooldown (all) by 20% to increase downtime between scans. Active Scan Stats - Buff recon assist WP by +10 points (all scanners). Buff STD scanner precision from 46dB to 40dB. Buff ADV scanner precision from 36dB to 32dB. Nerf Creodron Flux scan angle from 90 to 60 degrees and range from 200 to 150 meters. Passive Scan Mechanics - Adjust Falloff Inner Rings such that a Medframe with X (or more) complex precision enhancers detects a Scout with X (or fewer) complex dampeners ... in other words, implement a 1:1 ratio with ties favoring the scanner. Passive Scan Stats - Set base scan range of all units to 20m. Buff commando base precision from 55dB to 50dB. Buff range extender output from 15% to 30%. Cloak Mechanics - Keep decloak delay at 3 seconds, but set all other usage delays (equip, unequip, etc) to 1 second. If this for whatever reason can't be accomplished, reduce the current "universal" delay from 3 to 2 seconds. Cloak Stats - Buff profile reduction from 0-5-10 to 5-10-15. (This will not benefit CA or GA Scouts but will give MN and AM Scouts an alternative means and opportunity by which to duck 21dB active scans, assuming they have good timing and are running a proto cloak.) AM Scout - Rework racial bonus from +precision to something else. Biotic Efficacy -- which Rattati has been considering since HF Alpha -- is a personal favorite; ScP headshot and reload speed is another fun option. Scout Racial Bonus - Apply full cloak fitting reduction bonus at Level 1 racial Scout (rather than incrementally). Dropsuit Usage Rates
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 18	Posted - 2016.01.09 19:00:00 - [118] - Quote Ankbar Latrommi wrote: I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote: Mortishai Belmont wrote: You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all. I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least) You're missing a critical component. Passive scans are shared with your squad. Stabbing a merc (and getting away with it) is a much riskier prospect that it'd seem. There's a reason why nova knife kills are uncommon in PC and why nova knife kill spawn efficiency is (and always has been) disproportionately low. Dropsuit Usage Rates
Ankbar Latrommi Roghnaigh Do Scrios 159	Posted - 2016.01.12 15:26:00 - [119] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: You're missing a critical component. Passive scans are shared with your squad. This makes for a serious and arguably imbalanced danger for knifers, especially in competitive play (where squad sizes can reach up to 16 players). If knifers were truly "in no danger", Nova Knife kill/spawn efficiency and PC killcounts would not be disproportionately low. Not a help to the squad-less player. Hey I get it, I used to be on the "get in a squad" camp. But frankly that's not what CCP has here, at least for me. Too much time is eaten up in finding squads and such when I am trying to get in 2 matches between getting home and dinner, and talk to my wife at the same time. Eve:DUST514 is, for me, abnegation...because it isn't good/interesting enough(for me) to be much else. And thus, for me scouts are a real problem. They are frequently instant losses out of nowhere, with no benefit for my team. (Because that's another problem: let's face it we aren't a team.) Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." Eve> FPS


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