DUST Search - if scouts are supposed to be stealthy

One Eyed King wrote:

Foo Fighting wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

Foo Fighting wrote:

They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner.

All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans.

Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can.
And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle.
This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task.

...

You have this COMPLETELY backwards...

Inner circle ring precisions can get into the single digits, where as the lowest any Active Scanner can get is 15 dB.

Gal scouts are the only Scout that can beat it WITHOUT an active Pro Cloak.

All other Scouts are able to beat 15 dB with an active Pro Cloak. Min and Amarr need 3 Complex Dampeners to get to 16 dB, and since the Pro Cloak has a 10% dampening effect (-1.6 difference, which rounds to 2 dB. 16 dB - 2 dB = 14 dB). Since Cal Scouts only have 2 Low Slots, they get the Profile reduction bonus so that they are able to get to 16 dB with just 2 Complex Dampeners, and then the same math above applies.

This was the whole intention of EWAR pre rings. That ALL scouts should be able to beat scans, provided they make the sacrifice.

At the time, 18 dB was the lowest passive scans available, and all Scouts were designed to beat them without an active Pro Cloak, because of Shared Passives and always on Passive Scans.

The rings, however, are a whole different story.

The lowest a Gal Scout can get is 12 dB. That is with 4 Complex Dampeners, bringing them to 13 dB, and an active Pro Cloak lowering their profile 1 dB.

Let's look at the highest Precision numbers to get an idea. A Heavy suit, with max Precision and no Precision mods has an Inner Ring Scan of 25 dB. With 4 Complex Precision mods, they can get down to 12 dB, which ties the lowest Gal Profile, which means they can be picked up on the Heavy's Inner Ring, with enough sacrifice, even while Max Damped and Cloaked.

Medium Frames only need 2 Complex Precision mods to get all but a Cloaked, Max Damped Gal Scout, while adding a 3rd can even pick them up on Inner Ring Scans.

Again, this was the whole intended design of the circles. That they could not be beaten.

All EWAR numbers can be found here, which is compiled and current, and can always be found on the 1st post in the Barbershop, found in the Locker Room.


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Foo Fighting Blank Application 625	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:19:00 - [1] - Quote They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner.
Foo Fighting Blank Application 626	Posted - 2016.01.03 13:43:00 - [2] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task.
Foo Fighting Blank Application 629	Posted - 2016.01.03 14:12:00 - [3] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. Sounds like the words of someone who doesn't understand what two creodron flux active a scanners on a gal logi can do to the enemy team(or actually abuses the tactic and defends it).. Also that gimped scanner(I assume you speak of the duvolle focused scanner) still forces scouts to gimp their fits in order to evade scans. If creodron flux active scanners themselves had the pg/CPU cost raised to where the duvolle focused is,or if the flux scanner in general scans at the long range it does but with less precision then we would never have this problem. They way I've felt the ewar should be is that scouts should be able to fit one damp to evade scans,medium frames two and heavies if they really wanted to be stealth ballerinas could fit 3. I am not attacking or defending anything and I understand what 2 flux scanners can do. I would have them removed from the game if it was up to me. I was simply sprinkling some facts on your thread.
Foo Fighting Blank Application 634	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:25:00 - [4] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Foo Fighting wrote: They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. ... You have this COMPLETELY backwards... Inner circle ring precisions can get into the single digits, where as the lowest any Active Scanner can get is 15 dB. Gal scouts are the only Scout that can beat it WITHOUT an active Pro Cloak. All other Scouts are able to beat 15 dB with an active Pro Cloak. Min and Amarr need 3 Complex Dampeners to get to 16 dB, and since the Pro Cloak has a 10% dampening effect (-1.6 difference, which rounds to 2 dB. 16 dB - 2 dB = 14 dB). Since Cal Scouts only have 2 Low Slots, they get the Profile reduction bonus so that they are able to get to 16 dB with just 2 Complex Dampeners, and then the same math above applies. This was the whole intention of EWAR pre rings. That ALL scouts should be able to beat scans, provided they make the sacrifice. At the time, 18 dB was the lowest passive scans available, and all Scouts were designed to beat them without an active Pro Cloak, because of Shared Passives and always on Passive Scans. The rings, however, are a whole different story. The lowest a Gal Scout can get is 12 dB. That is with 4 Complex Dampeners, bringing them to 13 dB, and an active Pro Cloak lowering their profile 1 dB. Let's look at the highest Precision numbers to get an idea. A Heavy suit, with max Precision and no Precision mods has an Inner Ring Scan of 25 dB. With 4 Complex Precision mods, they can get down to 12 dB, which ties the lowest Gal Profile, which means they can be picked up on the Heavy's Inner Ring, with enough sacrifice, even while Max Damped and Cloaked. Medium Frames only need 2 Complex Precision mods to get all but a Cloaked, Max Damped Gal Scout, while adding a 3rd can even pick them up on Inner Ring Scans. Again, this was the whole intended design of the circles. That they could not be beaten. All EWAR numbers can be found here, which is compiled and current, and can always be found on the 1st post in the Barbershop, found in the Locker Room. More than happy to be educated although I don't need anyones pity lol. Regarding the bold statement above: How do you come to the conclusion the sentinel's inner circle is 25dB? According to this the inner circle is 90% i.e. 45dB - 10% =41.5dB and the outer circle is 110% i.e. 45dB +10% = 49.5dB. Have things changed since the circles were introduced?
Foo Fighting Blank Application 634	Posted - 2016.01.04 15:38:00 - [5] - Quote Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating.