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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
5
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Posted - 2016.01.06 10:48:00 -
[91] - Quote
Passive scan range reduction while cloaked needs to go.
Make all cloak last forever (just like rep tool), add little profile bonus and delay bonus to make upper tier worth.
Passive scan only shared while not cloaked.
Buff hack speed to silly level.
That is what a scout should be. An invisible provider of problems for the enemy team, not a slayer.
Regressed to blueberry level =ƒÿ»
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.06 12:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:That is what a scout should be. An invisible provider of problems for the enemy team, not a slayer.
Any chance I could get you to qualify this statement? "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean a variety of different things to different people.
To those players who don't like Scouts or perhaps more accurately, don't like getting killed by Scouts ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things (especially not [insert class]) and shouldn't even aspire to kill things.
To those players like Rattati who feel that all unit types should be capable of killing ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things with greater efficiency than Heavies or Assaults.
To those players who can appreciate the effort of setting and luring an enemy into an RE trap or those who are addicted to the edge-of-your-seat thrill of stalking and shanking an enemy with 3-4 times your HP and the power to vaporize you in a split second ... to those players, "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts are supposed to kill in a different way than the frontal slayer roles.
So what's your translation? And why?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
209
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Posted - 2016.01.06 13:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:korrah silain wrote:The other thing that bothers me is how this threads proclamations that one can duck permascan by running two dampners, which is flawed for two reasons: 1) it assumes every one does, can, and will run proto, and 2) it assumes level 5 in all skills. The same can be said about permascans: it assumes it's a maxed level 5 proto gal logi with proto scans filling QQ-half to all of its equip. slots with scans-QQ. Also, it's only 2 proto damps if you're running an amarr or min scout. You can get under PROTO permascans with gal or cal scout with 2 BASIC DAMPS. Or 1 basic and 1 enhanced damp if you only have level 3 in damps. The min and amarr scout are not as stealth focused because their bonuses are for another job. This is why we look at PC for balance issues, because everyone is most likely maxed out in the role they are using. korrah silain wrote:You have all said it yourself multiple times "if you are going in for a frontal assault you are doing it wrong" well guess what permascan FORCES us to do?. it only takes 1 damn proto damp to get under permascans. Or 2 if you're using the min or amarr scout. korrah silain wrote:It turns everything into a frontal assault. So, essentially where we are at to duck permascan is use all to half of the low slots which could be contributing to our mobility in order to be able to fulfil our role. 1 damn damp to get under proto permascans, 2 on the min and amarr which all can still fit a kincat to be more mobile. korrah silain wrote:I challenge you to point to another class who requires a third of their modules to be used in a certain way (assuming, of course you are sufficiently skilled, and wealthy enough to run them at proto levels, and not compromise your fitting). In the same way you assume it's a level 5 proto gal logi with level 5 proto scans, we can assume it's a proto scout with level 5 damps that has to be compared to it.
Points 1-3: so, yeah still requires all your low slots(caldari) or just MOST of your low slots to get under permascan, still doesn't negate my point. Logis can still be effective if they chose other equipment choices
Final point: nice dodge there, seriously you basically just responded to the aside which was not really the point, the point is that scouts are required to outfit themselves in a very constraining way to do their role, they are the only class which is required to use a third of their fitting space in one way, also your contention that min and ammar scouts aren't "meant" to be stealthy is ******* ridiculous, if that's the case, can we get them an HP buff, after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it?
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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MexXx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution
558
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Posted - 2016.01.06 13:56:00 -
[94] - Quote
korrah silain wrote:Points 1-3: so, yeah still requires all your low slots(caldari) it takes only 1 low slot on the caldari, of course that's half of the suit's low slots it's a caldari suit - lowest low slot count in it's class, if you want more low slots chose amarr or gal scout. The cal has 4 highs, which is likely to be stacked with shields - 450hp with crazy regen whilst under permascans, you can even fit a kincat on top of that - an extremely effective fit, if you consider that an ineffective suit you must be a phenomenally bad scout.
korrah silain wrote: or just MOST of your low slots to get under permascan, still doesn't negate my point. IT ONLY TAKES 1 SLOT to get under proto permascans on the cal and gal scout.
korrah silain wrote:Final point: nice dodge there, seriously you basically just responded to the aside which was not really the point, the point is that scouts are required to outfit themselves in a very constraining way to do their role, they are the only class which is required to use a third of their fitting space in one way, also your contention that min and ammar scouts aren't "meant" to be stealthy is ******* ridiculous, if that's the case, can we get them an HP buff, after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it?
1 damp is not a very constraining way at all.
I also never said the amarr and min scout are not meant to be stealthy, I said they have bonuses focused on other jobs, they are stealthy, just not as stealthy. The amarr scout is meant to be the scout hunter, it's not meant to be as stealthy as the gal and cal but it can be, it has the most innate hp, so what you lose by putting a second damp on, you somewhat compensate for it in hp - leveling you out with the cal and gal scout. The min scout is meant to be a OHK any suit and speed hacker, you can be as stealthy as a cal or gal, and what you lose by fitting a second damp, you keep in speed. You may or may not be as effective as a cal or gal at stealth but they don't get your bonuses either, they can also try being pseudo amarr or min scouts, but they won't be as effective at it.
korrah silain wrote:after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? Don't know where you got that from. |
korrah silain
True Illuminate
210
|
Posted - 2016.01.06 14:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
 MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:korrah silain wrote:Points 1-3: so, yeah still requires all your low slots(caldari) it takes only 1 low slot on the caldari, of course that's half of the suit's low slots it's a caldari suit - lowest low slot count in it's class, if you want more low slots choose an amarr or gal scout. The cal has 4 highs, which is likely to be stacked with shields - 450hp with crazy regen whilst under permascans, you can even fit a kincat on top of that - an extremely effective fit, if you consider that an ineffective suit you must be a phenomenally bad scout. korrah silain wrote: or just MOST of your low slots to get under permascan, still doesn't negate my point. IT ONLY TAKES 1 SLOT to get under proto permascans on the cal and gal scout. korrah silain wrote:Final point: nice dodge there, seriously you basically just responded to the aside which was not really the point, the point is that scouts are required to outfit themselves in a very constraining way to do their role, they are the only class which is required to use a third of their fitting space in one way, also your contention that min and ammar scouts aren't "meant" to be stealthy is ******* ridiculous, if that's the case, can we get them an HP buff, after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? 1 damp is not a very constraining way at all. I also never said the amarr and min scout are not meant to be stealthy, I said they have bonuses focused on other jobs, they are stealthy, just not as stealthy. The amarr scout is meant to be the scout hunter, it's not meant to be as stealthy as the gal and cal but it can be, it has the most innate hp, so what you lose by putting a second damp on, you somewhat compensate for it in hp - leveling you out with the cal and gal scout. The min scout is meant to be an OHK any suit and speed hacker, you can be as stealthy as a cal or gal, and what you lose by fitting a second damp, you keep in speed. You may or may not be as effective as a cal or gal at stealth but they don't get your bonuses either, they can also try being pseudo amarr or min scouts, but they won't be as effective at it. korrah silain wrote:after all "stealthy or tanky chose one" is your battle cry, isn't it? Don't know where you got that from.
Point 1 no it is not likely to be stacked with shields because as you have said if you are frontal assaulting you are failing it is likely to have either myofibs, precision enhancers, or DMg mods. Further you are again assuming proto their, when earlier you said at level 3 it will take two. If you consider tanking a viable strategy you clearly don't scout.
Point two: said two in previous reply, now back to assuming 1, further the fact that they can't get below perma scans(specifically the mins) without that huge constraint still nueters them, as for the ammar: oh yeeeeah cause the slowest scout is deffinatly going to be able to hunt the faster ones...what the hell is with your fascination and paranoia with scouts reaching a phenomenal 450 hp, anyway? That's still just swiss cheese if they are caught, you are still ignoring all the buffs assaults have had, and other nerfs scouts have had, such as the cloak nerfs. They are never going to be assault lite again, and that is good, but as they are now they are way too constrained by the meta of scanners.
Well perhaps not your personal battle cry, but that of your ilk.
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.06 14:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
4 cmp shields + cmp damp + cmp kincat does not make for a particularly strong or competitive calscout. You aren't going to fit much else on it and you're instagib bait for every flavor of AR, ScR or shotgun. Armor is still king for a reason, and you have next to none. As for fast shield recovery, sure it is nice so long as you aren't instagibbed, but it isn't unique anymore. Everyone has fast shield recovery now. Even GA Assaults. 
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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korrah silain
True Illuminate
210
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Posted - 2016.01.06 14:37:00 -
[97] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:4 cmp shields + cmp damp + cmp kincat does not make for a particularly strong or competitive calscout. You aren't going to fit much else on it and you're instagib bait for every flavor of AR, ScR or shotgun. Armor is still king for a reason, and you have next to none. As for fast shield recovery, sure it is nice so long as you aren't instagibbed, but it isn't unique anymore. Everyone has fast shield recovery now. Even GA Assaults. You're going to be scanned and painted to squad tacnet every time you get within shotgun range of a MedFrame. They don't even need a precision enhancer.
Nuh uh cause look at that hp stack, that means its automatically a slayer scout cause all the hps! And if we give scouts more fitting room it will lead to them out killing assaults because the assaults are still the same, and all the other factors that were changed weren't changed!
you ever get to that point where you know you should sleep, but ya just...dont? yeah...me too.
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MexXx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution
558
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
korrah silain wrote:Point 1 no it is not likely to be stacked with shields because as you have said if you are frontal assaulting you are failing it is likely to have either myofibs, precision enhancers, or DMg mods. I never said you should frontal assault with it, but it certainly makes all the difference when strafing or running away from an hmg, precision modules on a cal scout would be pointless, damage mods wouldn't make much of a difference if you have a shotgun, a rifle on a scout is the slowest way to kill something as a scout, and I've personally wouldn't know much about running myos on scouts that seems scrubby. I'm not arguing what you want to run in your high slots though.
korrah silain wrote:Further you are again assuming proto their, when earlier you said at level 3 it will take two. I'm assuming proto because the scans you are talking about is proto, for the 3rd time.
korrah silain wrote:If you consider tanking a viable strategy you clearly don't scout. I don't consider pure tanking a viable strategy on scouts, I never suggested it. The most effective overall cal scout fit I have seen for months in pc, was a cal scout with shields in the highs, why? Because there's no other useful scout modules in the high slots.
korrah silain wrote:Point two: said two in previous reply, now back to assuming 1, further the fact that they can't get below perma scans(specifically the mins) without that huge constraint still nueters them, as for the ammar: oh yeeeeah cause the slowest scout is deffinatly going to be able to hunt the faster ones...what the hell is with your fascination and paranoia with scouts reaching a phenomenal 450 hp, anyway? That's still just swiss cheese if they are caught, I already addressed this, the min and amarr can get under permascans with 2 damps, of course this puts strain on the suit, but they still keep their other bonuses. The amarr scout is fundamentally bad, no argument their , I already suggested a 1 high 5 low slot layout for them in this thread. I'm not fascinated with scouts having 450 hp, I only suggested that for the cal scout because of the less uselful scout modules in the highs, 450 shield hp equates to about 700 hp when strafing in front of armor weapons, it is effective.
korrah silain wrote:you are still ignoring all the buffs assaults have had, and other nerfs scouts have had, such as the cloak nerfs. They are never going to be assault lite again, and that is good, but as they are now they are way too constrained by the meta of scanners.
Well perhaps not your personal battle cry, but that of your ilk.
I acknowledge the assaults are very effective now. I never said scouts were going to be assault lite again, nor do I fear they will. As I said before, I agree that scans need a nerf, and some cloak nerf remissions are due. I'm just here bullying scouts that don't know what they should complain about. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:23:00 -
[99] - Quote
MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: I'm just here bullying scouts that don't know what they should complain about.
Not gonna lie. I laughed when I read this.
PS: If precision enhancers are indeed useless on a CalScout (of all things), EWAR's even more borked than I'd realized!
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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MexXx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution
560
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:27:00 -
[100] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:4 cmp shields + cmp damp + cmp kincat does not make for a particularly strong or competitive calscout. You aren't going to fit much else on it. What else were you planning to take? You're right, I looked at my fit, it has 1 enhanced shield. And a basic hive. Still effective at killing. Though I use the gal scout for ultimate scout efficiency.
Adipem Nothi wrote:That, and you're instagib bait for every flavor of AR, ScR or shotgun. Armor is still king for a reason, and you have next to none. Yes, of course there's the hard counter to shields, whether that's balanced or not is another story. That's also how the amarr scout feels when it runs into a CR, HMG or RR. But it's worse because of how slow it is. The kincat on the cal scout is supposed aid in evading the hard counters, as hard as it is.
Adipem Nothi wrote:As for fast shield recovery, sure it is nice so long as you aren't instagibbed, but it isn't unique anymore. Everyone has fast shield recovery now. Even GA Assaults. I brought that up because the cal scout returning to full hp in seconds is beautiful for hit and run tactics.Adipem Nothi wrote:You're also going to be scanned and painted to squad tacnet every time you get within shotgun range of a MedFrame. They don't even need a precision enhancer. Doesn't the proto damp get you under this? As I said before, it's fair game at that point, but with squad share I don't feel the same.Adipem Nothi wrote:Not to say the loadout can't be made to work under the right set of circumstances, rather that it doesn't hold up as well you might expect given today's meta and environment. I ran variations of the above quite alot in past and present builds. It used to work; now, not so much. "You must be a terrible scout if you can't do well with this" may have been the case before but it is not presently accurate.
Stil curious about your loadout though. Last I checked, 4 cmp extenders and a kincat doesn't leave much room.
I find it particularly useful in city maps where hmg presence is high. |
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MexXx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution
560
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:32:00 -
[101] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: I'm just here bullying scouts that don't know what they should complain about. Not gonna lie. I laughed when I read this. PS: If precision enhancers are indeed useless on a CalScout (of all things), EWAR's even more borked than I'd realized! You're just as invisible to other scouts as you are to them, for the most part, gal logi makes it redundant. I can't remember numbers off hand, but there was a more profound reason. Maybe later. |
maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
2
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:38:00 -
[102] - Quote
How long will the sh!t stay in the fan?
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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MexXx Dust-Slayer
Fatal Absolution
560
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Posted - 2016.01.06 15:48:00 -
[103] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:How long will the sh!t stay in the fan?
You made a scout thread, what did you expect? |
maybe deadcatz
Serris Inc
2
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Posted - 2016.01.06 17:04:00 -
[104] - Quote
MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect?
I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going.
Ha!You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.08 16:37:00 -
[105] - Quote
MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:You're also going to be scanned and painted to squad tacnet every time you get within shotgun range of a MedFrame. They don't even need a precision enhancer. Doesn't the proto damp get you under this? As I said before, it's fair game at that point, but with squad share I don't feel the same.
Nope. One proto damp on a max-skilled CalScout gets your profile down to 20dB. If you want to beat an Assault or Logi's unenhanced inner ring, you'll need to run damps in both of your lows. Logis and Assaults -- with those module slots -- get this for free. Who's having cake?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.08 16:46:00 -
[106] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going.
High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good for what needs fixin', would now be a good time to fix EWAR? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Ankbar Latrommi
Roghnaigh Do Scrios
158
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Posted - 2016.01.08 16:49:00 -
[107] - Quote
korrah silain wrote: and blatant visibility of the cloak
I have no idea what you are referring to.
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:01:00 -
[108] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good feel for what needs fixin', would now be a good time for an EWAR tuneup? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015?
How would you change it up exactly? I mean we don't want scouts to be completely invisible but at the same time, we don't want Gal logis perma-scanning.
Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls.
#PortDust514
'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good feel for what needs fixin', would now be a good time for an EWAR tuneup? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015? How would you change it up exactly? I mean we don't want scouts to be completely invisible but at the same time, we don't want Gal logis perma-scanning.
I've got numbers and ideas, Echo, but I also have to run off to work. Can I get back to you on this a bit later?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Ankbar Latrommi
Roghnaigh Do Scrios
158
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:03:00 -
[110] - Quote
I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post...
Adipem Nothi wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all.
I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment?
Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least)
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:08:00 -
[111] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:
I've got numbers and ideas, Echo, but I also have to run off to work. Can I get back to you on this a bit later?
Sure 
Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls.
#PortDust514
'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
5
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:21:00 -
[112] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:shaman oga wrote:That is what a scout should be. An invisible provider of problems for the enemy team, not a slayer. Any chance I could get you to qualify this statement? "Scouts should not be slayers" likely means different things to different people. To those players who don't like Scouts or perhaps more accurately, don't like getting killed by Scouts ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things (especially not [insert class]) and shouldn't want or try to kill things. To those players like Rattati who feel that all unit types should be capable of killing ... "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts should not kill things with greater efficiency than Heavies or Assaults. To those players who can appreciate the effort of setting and luring an enemy into an RE trap or those who are addicted to the edge-of-your-seat thrill of stalking and shanking an enemy with 3-4 times your HP and the power to vaporize you in a split second ... to those players, "Scouts should not be slayers" could mean that Scouts are supposed to kill in a different way than the frontal slayer roles.
These are the first three that came to mind; there are no doubt many more translations. What's it mean to you? And why? take it like: logi are not slayers.
You can slay with logi, but it's not the optimal suit to do so.
Regressed to blueberry level =ƒÿ»
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Imperium Eden
1
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Posted - 2016.01.08 17:22:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all.
I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least)
See, I don't see a problem with the inner ring being able to pick up just about anything, cos it's literally right in front of you.
By the time you've noticed you're probably gonna die anyway so it's not a real problem like the scanner. I love the scanner, it's my favourite piece of equipment but something needs to change.
They are too strong on a gal logi and either the Gal Logi needs a nerf, the scanner gets nerfed or scouts get buffed.
I personally don't want scouts getting buffed, we saw what happened when they didn't need to fit EWAR and it was horrid, no one wants that again.
The scanner being nerfed isn't going to help either cos then scouts don't have to worry at all if the they have one damp so this is also counterproductive (unless the nerf is well thought out and not just lol nerf precision 15%).
That leaves the Gal Logi. I know how good scans are on this and it's crazy. 21db scan for 200m is insane, it needs to be addressed, maybe lower precision by 10% or 2% per level.
Change the Ion Pistol Fitting Skill Pls.
#PortDust514
'Echo is a dirty hooker' - UnclS2
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dusty5678
0uter.Heaven
410
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Posted - 2016.01.08 18:04:00 -
[114] - Quote
No-one-ganks like-Gaston wrote:As a Minscout, I would certainly not mind getting an innate bonus to not being lit up constantly.
If you're being 'constantly' scanned you're doing it wrong.
Long live Queen ZarZar <3
50 - "I survived Dust 514."
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Abraxis Mangelor
Breach Team
16
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Posted - 2016.01.08 20:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Scout suits are just fine. Just choose the role by the race, AS IT SHOULD BE.
A scout generally picks two specialties from the following list:
Invisi-Damped
Fast Runner
Fast Hacker
Backstabber (cqc gank)
Splash-monkey (range splash gank)
Jumper
Passive Intel
Anyone who wants more than 2 from that list needs to fight in something other than a scout suit for a while and get a grip on what ROLES really are.
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Medical Crash
Systematic Engineers Unlimited
414
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Posted - 2016.01.09 00:03:00 -
[116] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Ankbar Latrommi wrote:I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all.
I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least) See, I don't see a problem with the inner ring being able to pick up just about anything, cos it's literally right in front of you. By the time you've noticed you're probably gonna die anyway so it's not a real problem like the scanner. I love the scanner, it's my favourite piece of equipment but something needs to change. They are too strong on a gal logi and either the Gal Logi needs a nerf, the scanner gets nerfed or scouts get buffed. I personally don't want scouts getting buffed, we saw what happened when they didn't need to fit EWAR and it was horrid, no one wants that again. The scanner being nerfed isn't going to help either cos then scouts don't have to worry at all if the they have one damp so this is also counterproductive (unless the nerf is well thought out and not just lol nerf precision 15%). That leaves the Gal Logi. I know how good scans are on this and it's crazy. 21db scan for 200m is insane, it needs to be addressed, maybe lower precision by 10% or 2% per level.
The cooldown times of the scanners are already too much, I think they've been nerfed enough already. Just leave everything alone until DUST gets a new port.
There are better ideas out there, but I doubt tey would work with the outdated hardware we have.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.09 18:57:00 -
[117] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:How long will the sh!t stay in the fan? You made a scout thread, what did you expect? I expected a sh!tstorm. That's why I made it. Didn't expect it to actually go this far with my halfassed stirs to keep it going. High fives all around, guys! Now that we have our facts straight and a good feel for what needs fixin', would now be a good time for an EWAR tuneup? Or should we plan to redo this dance periodically, like we did for the whole of 2015? How would you change it up exactly? I mean we don't want scouts to be completely invisible but at the same time, we don't want Gal logis perma-scanning.
GalLogi permascan is an EWAR-related balance problem, but it isn't the only EWAR balance problem. There are a few of other things in the EWAR department which could use some polish. If I were calling the shots, below are the changes I'd implement (assuming my goal was balanced EWAR interplay). The changes are broken into two groups: the first assumes that mechanical changes are on-the-table, the second assumes that we have to stay within the bounds of hotfix ...
[i]Finetuning EWAR (w/ mechanical changes)
Active Scan Mechanics - Fix permascan via new scan mechanics. Lots of different, good ideas out there. Beam scanners. Blip scanners. Etc. Probably best to put up a thread and weigh all the different options. No particular preference here so long as permascan is fixed once-and-for-all. It'd also be nice if the new mechanic did not afford KB/M special benefits (i.e. 360 spinscanning).
Active Scanner Stats - Buff recon assist WP by +10 points (all scanners). Buff STD scanner precision from 46dB to 40dB. Buff ADV scanner precision from 36dB to 32dB. Nerf Creodron Flux scan angle from 90 to 60 degrees and range from 200 to 150 meters.
Passive Scan Mechanics - Disable shared passives.
Passive Scan Stats - Set base scan range of all units to 20m. Buff commando base precision from 55dB to 50dB. Buff range extender output from 15% to 30%.
Cloak Mechanics - Keep decloak delay at 3 seconds, but set all other usage delays (equip, unequip, etc) to 1 second. If this for whatever reason can't be accomplished, reduce the current "universal" delay from 3 to 2 seconds.
Cloak Stats - Buff profile reduction from 0-5-10 to 5-10-15. (This will not benefit CA or GA Scouts but will give MN and AM Scouts an alternative means and opportunity by which to duck 21dB active scans, assuming they have good timing and are running a proto cloak.)
AM Scout - Rework racial bonus from +precision to something else. Biotic Efficacy -- which Rattati has been considering since HF Alpha -- is a personal favorite; ScP headshot and reload speed is another fun option.
Scout Racial Bonus - Apply full cloak fitting reduction bonus at Level 1 racial Scout (rather than incrementally).
[i]Finetuning EWAR (w/out mechanical changes)
Active Scan Mechanics - Fix permascan via use limitations and decreased potency. Disable team-shared scans. Limit all suits to one scanner of each type per suit (for instance, Flux + Proximity + Focused + Stable would be permitted while Flux x4 would not be permitted). Nerf active scanner cooldown (all) by 20% to increase downtime between scans.
Active Scan Stats - Buff recon assist WP by +10 points (all scanners). Buff STD scanner precision from 46dB to 40dB. Buff ADV scanner precision from 36dB to 32dB. Nerf Creodron Flux scan angle from 90 to 60 degrees and range from 200 to 150 meters.
Passive Scan Mechanics - Adjust Falloff Inner Rings such that a Medframe with X (or more) complex precision enhancers detects a Scout with X (or fewer) complex dampeners ... in other words, implement a 1:1 ratio with ties favoring the scanner.
Passive Scan Stats - Set base scan range of all units to 20m. Buff commando base precision from 55dB to 50dB. Buff range extender output from 15% to 30%.
Cloak Mechanics - Keep decloak delay at 3 seconds, but set all other usage delays (equip, unequip, etc) to 1 second. If this for whatever reason can't be accomplished, reduce the current "universal" delay from 3 to 2 seconds.
Cloak Stats - Buff profile reduction from 0-5-10 to 5-10-15. (This will not benefit CA or GA Scouts but will give MN and AM Scouts an alternative means and opportunity by which to duck 21dB active scans, assuming they have good timing and are running a proto cloak.)
AM Scout - Rework racial bonus from +precision to something else. Biotic Efficacy -- which Rattati has been considering since HF Alpha -- is a personal favorite; ScP headshot and reload speed is another fun option.
Scout Racial Bonus - Apply full cloak fitting reduction bonus at Level 1 racial Scout (rather than incrementally).
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
18
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Posted - 2016.01.09 19:00:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ankbar Latrommi wrote:I feel like my participation in thread will get me shat on, but here goes another post... Adipem Nothi wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
You can either be speedy, tanky, or stealthy. You don't get to have it all.
I'll take that bait! Say I'm a MinScout who has chosen to be "stealthy". I've committed all 3 of my 3 three low slots to complex dampeners. My scan profile is 16dB. What happens when I get within knife range of an Assault or Logi who's committed 1 high slot to precision? These units have the highest module slot count in the game; is it reasonable that their single-module investment trumps my 100% investment in stealth? I've forgone speed and tank to be stealthy; why is it that my stealth is so easily trumped at so little investment? Because if it takes getting into knife range before you show up...I have been paying attention to something else--since I didn't know you were coming--and you are in no danger in the small gap of time it takes for you to knife me in the back. (not from me at least)
You're missing a critical component. Passive scans are shared with your squad. Stabbing a merc (and getting away with it) is a much riskier prospect that it'd seem. There's a reason why nova knife kills are uncommon in PC and why nova knife kill spawn efficiency is (and always has been) disproportionately low.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Ankbar Latrommi
Roghnaigh Do Scrios
159
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Posted - 2016.01.12 15:26:00 -
[119] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:You're missing a critical component. Passive scans are shared with your squad. This makes for a serious and arguably imbalanced danger for knifers, especially in competitive play (where squad sizes can reach up to 16 players).
If knifers were truly "in no danger", Nova Knife kill/spawn efficiency and PC killcounts would not be disproportionately low.
Not a help to the squad-less player.
Hey I get it, I used to be on the "get in a squad" camp. But frankly that's not what CCP has here, at least for me. Too much time is eaten up in finding squads and such when I am trying to get in 2 matches between getting home and dinner, and talk to my wife at the same time. Eve:DUST514 is, for me, abnegation...because it isn't good/interesting enough(for me) to be much else.
And thus, for me scouts are a real problem. They are frequently instant losses out of nowhere, with no benefit for my team. (Because that's another problem: let's face it we aren't a team.)
Reiner Knizia-"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
Eve> FPS
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