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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.03 13:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner.
All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans.
If you think you want to use the broken ass cloak on your Assault or Heavy, feel free. Although I will point out that Medium Frames already infringe on Scout roles too much as is, and that POS cloak is about the only thing left that is truly just theirs. If you really think it should be open to all, you are going to have to suggest some other changes as well I think.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.04 03:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Foo Fighting wrote:They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task.
...
You have this COMPLETELY backwards...
Inner circle ring precisions can get into the single digits, where as the lowest any Active Scanner can get is 15 dB.
Gal scouts are the only Scout that can beat it WITHOUT an active Pro Cloak.
All other Scouts are able to beat 15 dB with an active Pro Cloak. Min and Amarr need 3 Complex Dampeners to get to 16 dB, and since the Pro Cloak has a 10% dampening effect (-1.6 difference, which rounds to 2 dB. 16 dB - 2 dB = 14 dB). Since Cal Scouts only have 2 Low Slots, they get the Profile reduction bonus so that they are able to get to 16 dB with just 2 Complex Dampeners, and then the same math above applies.
This was the whole intention of EWAR pre rings. That ALL scouts should be able to beat scans, provided they make the sacrifice.
At the time, 18 dB was the lowest passive scans available, and all Scouts were designed to beat them without an active Pro Cloak, because of Shared Passives and always on Passive Scans.
The rings, however, are a whole different story.
The lowest a Gal Scout can get is 12 dB. That is with 4 Complex Dampeners, bringing them to 13 dB, and an active Pro Cloak lowering their profile 1 dB.
Let's look at the highest Precision numbers to get an idea. A Heavy suit, with max Precision and no Precision mods has an Inner Ring Scan of 25 dB. With 4 Complex Precision mods, they can get down to 12 dB, which ties the lowest Gal Profile, which means they can be picked up on the Heavy's Inner Ring, with enough sacrifice, even while Max Damped and Cloaked.
Medium Frames only need 2 Complex Precision mods to get all but a Cloaked, Max Damped Gal Scout, while adding a 3rd can even pick them up on Inner Ring Scans.
Again, this was the whole intended design of the circles. That they could not be beaten.
All EWAR numbers can be found here, which is compiled and current, and can always be found on the 1st post in the Barbershop, found in the Locker Room.
As an aside, this is like the 4th or 5th time I have had to have this exact discussion. I have been a Scout going on 3 years in February, and have been Minmatar since it's release on Uprising 1.0. I have been a Knifer since sometime around 1.4, which puts me at a point in time when the entirety of our kind could be numbered in the dozens, despite having many, many more active players. I have been here through all the changes, and while I certainly misremember things, or don't know some others, please try and at least back your statements up with some facts.
That being said, I stand by my point that I don't think this is a good idea (though I would enjoy seeing some of those that think Cloaking is "easy" try having to deal with that POS), and that you better come up with some benefits for Scouts to give the ONE remaining thing we still have. Otherwise, you may as well delete the role, and give it to Logis or Assaults, as they are both half way there as it is.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.04 03:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Foo Fighting wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Foo Fighting wrote:They all have a lower profile than other suits and gal and cal get an additional profile bonus too. Any scout can avoid all but 1 rather gimped scanner. All scouts can beat all active and passive scans, with the exception of inner circle scans. Min, Cal and Amarr cannot beat a focused scanner on a gal logi - only a Gal scout can. And only a Gal scout can evade an amarr scouts inner circle. Any scout can evade any other suits inner circle. This all assumes fitting relavent modules for the task. None of that is accurate, Foo.
I pity the Foo.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.04 15:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:Appreciate your reply do you have a source for this data, looks like my spreadsheet needs updating.
I think its somewhere later in that same thread.
That thread is going to be a pain to sort through however.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.04 16:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
P.S.
I miss that kind of dialogue and feedback...
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.04 16:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
maybe deadcatz wrote:Gal logi with two creodron flux active scanners. But you can permascan everyone who isn't a gal scout or equipped with multi damps.
Gal scout with one damp,can evade pretty much everything except inner ring scans.
Problem is,the gal logi completely destroys ewar for every suit.
Bigger problem is that the gal scout is too good at stealth vs other scouts
The gallente are the reaso ewar is broke right now.Just saying.
EWAR is broke for a lot of reasons, constant Shared Passive scans being one of them, and the one I personally hate the most.
Gal Scouts were the 1st scout, and have the by product of having the rational bonus of profile dampening grandfathered in even as more suits were added. In addition to having 4 Low Slots, which due to module placement and Shield/Armor performance gaps is the more valuable to have, is part of the reason Gal Scouts have always been the superior performance.
Personally, I don't think that there is much that can be done on EWAR while we have the old code and old hardware to deal with. I just wish they had made more piecemeal changes with regards to EWAR instead of doing a bunch of things all at once. Assault Buff + Medium Frame EWAR Buff + Cloak Blind + Concentric Circles all arriving within close proximity to one another was too many changes too soon.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
13
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Posted - 2016.01.04 16:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:One Eyed King wrote:P.S. I miss that kind of dialogue and feedback... The kind of dialogue where self-serving members of CPM flat-out lie to get what they want? I don't miss that kind of dialogue. Here's to hoping it never happens again. And should it, here's to hoping Rattati is able to part fact from fiction.
That is what it devolved to, but it didn't happen with every topic, and it is certainly better than silence. I think you have to take the good with the bad, and on the whole having dialogue and discussion is better than silence.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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