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Let's talk about the Scout: Racial bonuses and inferred roles.

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gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.06.12 19:13:00 - [61] - Quote DDx77 wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: DDx77 wrote: Yes the min scout needs a buff like this big time. Not at all true. So basically the anti-general nova knife buff argument is "nuuuu we cants be scoutly bustards with minscout nks, it'll lose the flavour of the suit." I mean if you like pathogenic reasoning like this that favors individual preference over general game balance, I'd advise you to agree. I'd advise you to become a communist, I'd advise you to believe religion over science, I'd advise you to become an extremist for that religion, I'd advise you to hate people for their race. Baseless emotional arguments/ideas have their place is society right? Response that is based in misunderstanding I buffing all scouts in terms of dampening would be great, but that doesn't mean the minmatar scout should be the only infantry that can use knives viably. I played both now only minscout because lolE-war. It would balance the scales because it's fundamentally imbalanced that only one suit is able to use a specific weapon effectively. I wouldn't care what bonus the suit got as long as it didn't render the knives OP. Actually I almost always avoid getting knifed by a sneaky scout. You're an idiot, a general nova knife buff would mean that nova knifes would no longer be only effective on min scouts. I described all the other baseless emotional arguments and ideas because they all have one thing in common; they're all run by idealistic, narcissists that believe in things without actual reasoning. I made the connection to communism because it's an economic system that has never worked in favor of anyone except tyrants. Nova knifes should not be limited to only ones suit it's a beyond idiotic idea, like communism. You don't anything about the socio-economic idealism of communism if that's you're description of it. To reiterate, you're an idiot. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 05:48:00 - [62] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Interestingly I made almost the exact same proposal in the barbershop a while back. A potential alternative Gallente scout bonus would be to cloak duration/recharge. Or give Caldari the cloak bonus and Galente scan range, if you want to be more racially aligned. There are issues however. Firstly there is the danger of making the Minmatar scout overpowered. Also, whilst I like the idea of making knives more viable on other suits, removing the knife bonus to Min scouts potentially loses the flavour and heart of the suit. Knives are part of a Min scout's identity. Losing the bonus, even if knife damage was buffed generally, would remove that identity. I feel that the min scout won't be losing it's heart, rather it will be sharing it with everyone, and the gal and cal scouts will be sharing its stealth with it and the amarr scout. I really like your idea for the bonuses for the cal and gal scouts, I'll be adding that to the post until I see a better one, and giving credit to you of course. The Official Ari QQ Thread
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:15:00 - [63] - Quote Arirana wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Interestingly I made almost the exact same proposal in the barbershop a while back. A potential alternative Gallente scout bonus would be to cloak duration/recharge. Or give Caldari the cloak bonus and Galente scan range, if you want to be more racially aligned. There are issues however. Firstly there is the danger of making the Minmatar scout overpowered. Also, whilst I like the idea of making knives more viable on other suits, removing the knife bonus to Min scouts potentially loses the flavour and heart of the suit. Knives are part of a Min scout's identity. Losing the bonus, even if knife damage was buffed generally, would remove that identity. I feel that the min scout won't be losing it's heart, rather it will be sharing it with everyone, and the gal and cal scouts will be sharing its stealth with it and the amarr scout. I really like your idea for the bonuses for the cal and gal scouts, I'll be adding that to the post until I see a better one, and giving credit to you of course. But if you share it's heart with everyone, then there is no need to run it instead of the others... If you can knife as good or better in other suits, who may have more HP, more LS for KinCats, CBs, Armor, and CDs, why bother with the Minmatar? This isn't a buff to Minjas.... not at all. No one cares about precision, that is why it is such a crap bonus, and Gal Scouts won't bother. They can just throw some PG enh to supplement KinCats, etc. This would be a buff to Amarr and Gal Scouts (who now get to keep their bonus, which means they can always dampen as well as a Minja AND have an extra LS to play with, PLUS get the Knife bonus for no reason). AND you would be making Assault Knifers possible... Yeah, those guys don't have enough things that make them OP with all their speed, extra slots, and HP that we now have to worry about Assaults with scout like speed, and profile, with way more HP. This would be no less messed up than allowing everyone to carry an HMG.... TL;DR Booooo!!! Don't kill the Minja by stealing our knife bonus!!! Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:27:00 - [64] - Quote If knives were equally good on a GalScout, there'd be precisely zero reason to run a MinScout. Hack and Slash has always been the MinScout's MO; I don't see any good reason to strip away that identity. The Scout class attained role parity between HF Charlie and Uprising 1.10; it is absolutely possible that role parity could again be achieved with the Minja's identity left intact. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:30:00 - [65] - Quote I think you guys are forgetting the fact that the min scout still has a speed hack bonus, which becomes more useful with the newly added stealth. And like I said, Nova Knives are a Caldari weapon. The Minmatar scout's identity had no business being best at using a caldari weapon in the first place, its just a rollover mistake from the previous less competent devs that unfortunately is being held onto like like a bald guy wears a combover and claims he has a full head of hair. The Official Ari QQ Thread
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:35:00 - [66] - Quote Arirana wrote: I think you guys are forgetting the fact that the min scout still has a speed hack bonus, which becomes more useful with the newly added stealth. You could accomplish the same goal -- and leave all else intact -- by improving cloak's active damp bonus. It is now 0-5-10. I believe we could safely make it 5-10-15 or even 10-15-20 without creating new imbalance. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 06:48:00 - [67] - Quote Arirana wrote: I think you guys are forgetting the fact that the min scout still has a speed hack bonus, which becomes more useful with the newly added stealth. And like I said, Nova Knives are a Caldari weapon. The Minmatar scout's identity had no business being best at using a caldari weapon in the first place, its just a rollover mistake from the previous less competent devs that unfortunately is being held onto like like a bald guy wears a combover and claims he has a full head of hair. Why skill into a whole suit just to speed hack? Get a Gal Scout and stack it with 4 CBs and you'll be close enough not to know the difference. For as many people that have huge amounts of SP and are willing to respec, they could easily just ditch the Min Scout, keep their Gal Scout, and have a scout close enough to a Minja for it not to matter. They can stack KCs for speed, and CBs for hacks. The ONLY thing they can't stick a mod on for is stamina regen, which can be negated by just throwing on a Cardiac Reg and having a big enough stamina pool not to matter. Its not unlike where the Amarr are now. They are good scouts, but pretty much anything they can do, Gals can do better, and since the Precision bonus is now crap like I said earlier, there is no reason to run them other than being the Empress' cuckhold. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:14:00 - [68] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Why skill into a whole suit just to speed hack? I did it and have absolutely no regrets. I definitely didn't do it for the knife bonus, or to be a pretentious imbecile on the forums about being a scout. I did it because speed hacks are useful in objective games, and I didn't want to have to use all my tank to get a good hack out. One Eyed King wrote: Get a Gal Scout and stack it with 4 CBs and you'll be close enough not to know the difference. Everything is about increments in this game I can say the same thing about fitting optimization, cpu bonuses, pg bonuses, damage bonuses. Why aren't complaining about those 3%-5% One Eyed King wrote: For as many people that have huge amounts of SP and are willing to respec, they could easily just ditch the Min Scout, keep their Gal Scout, and have a scout close enough to a Minja for it not to matter. They can stack KCs for speed, and CBs for hacks. The ONLY thing they can't stick a mod on for is stamina regen, which can be negated by just throwing on a Cardiac Reg and having a big enough stamina pool not to matter. There are way too many differences between a gal scout and min scout for there to be an overlap. Different tank, different slot layout, different bonus, different stats. If you honestly think that the knifing bonus is the only thing keeping the minmmatar scout the highest rated scout, you're beyond detached from the game. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:49:00 - [69] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Why skill into a whole suit just to speed hack? Get a Gal Scout and stack it with 4 CBs and you'll be close enough not to know the difference. For as many people that have huge amounts of SP and are willing to respec, they could easily just ditch the Min Scout, keep their Gal Scout, and have a scout close enough to a Minja for it not to matter. They can stack KCs for speed, and CBs for hacks. The ONLY thing they can't stick a mod on for is stamina regen, which can be negated by just throwing on a Cardiac Reg and having a big enough stamina pool not to matter. Its not unlike where the Amarr are now. They are good scouts, but pretty much anything they can do, Gals can do better, and since the Precision bonus is now crap like I said earlier, there is no reason to run them other than being the Empress' cuckhold. Your post has convinced me that the speed hack bonus is not enough, but minmatar racial bonus to cal knives still cannot be justified. I think an extra 5% melee speed bonus per level on top of the hacking speed bonus would be both inline with racial lore and enough to make it worth it. It will become the only scout that doesn't have to decloak to kill. I have also revised my suggestion for the amarr scout bonus please read it I value your opinion, The Official Ari QQ Thread
maybe deadcatz Horizons' Edge No Context 104	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:52:00 - [70] - Quote Arirana wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Why skill into a whole suit just to speed hack? Get a Gal Scout and stack it with 4 CBs and you'll be close enough not to know the difference. For as many people that have huge amounts of SP and are willing to respec, they could easily just ditch the Min Scout, keep their Gal Scout, and have a scout close enough to a Minja for it not to matter. They can stack KCs for speed, and CBs for hacks. The ONLY thing they can't stick a mod on for is stamina regen, which can be negated by just throwing on a Cardiac Reg and having a big enough stamina pool not to matter. Its not unlike where the Amarr are now. They are good scouts, but pretty much anything they can do, Gals can do better, and since the Precision bonus is now crap like I said earlier, there is no reason to run them other than being the Empress' cuckhold. Your post has convinced me that the speed hack bonus is not enough, but minmatar racial bonus to cal knives still cannot be justified. I think an extra 5% melee speed bonus per level would be both inline with racial lore and and more than enough to make it worth it. It will become the only scout that doesn't have to decloak to kill. Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers Ewar? What's that? Some kind of fancy new way of being lazy? Learn how to use your eyes and ears you maggots.

Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:53:00 - [71] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers Unfortunately for your post this is a thread about scouts, you want a jump mod QQ thread go make one. The Official Ari QQ Thread
maybe deadcatz Horizons' Edge No Context 104	Posted - 2015.06.13 07:54:00 - [72] - Quote Arirana wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers Unfortunately for your post this is a thread about scouts, you want a jump mod QQ thread go make one. Id like to but theres no point. Scrubs will defend their op crap and exploits. Ewar? What's that? Some kind of fancy new way of being lazy? Learn how to use your eyes and ears you maggots.
GRIM GEAR Nos Nothi 493	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:00:00 - [73] - Quote I want to add that before Chromosome every single suit had Nova knives for their melee attack...... food for thought..... I is not fat..... Although someone mentioned Eve lore stating that Nova Knives are indeed Caldari; we are mercenaries are we not? do we not salvage the gear of the fallen? Cup of tea anyone? I came here to mingle can you hear that jingle that would be me lingle.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:01:00 - [74] - Quote Arirana wrote: The Minmatar Scout's racial bonus will become a 5% bonus to hack and melee speed per level. A melee speed bonus wouldn't mirror a certain glitch that a certain someone abused would it? GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:05:00 - [75] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Arirana wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers Unfortunately for your post this is a thread about scouts, you want a jump mod QQ thread go make one. Id like to but theres no point. Scrubs will defend their op crap and exploits. Alright I'll humor you. When someone jumps at least as high and as fast as a min assault suit with 2 jump mods or more, the air resistance should make a person put their gun away until they begin falling back down. As a person begins falling back down it should be harder to look down due to the air resistance once again, making dropsuit aerial combat harder and turn jump mods into a tactical sacrifice of offense for defense, while keeping its maneuverability for capturing higher ground. Another thing I feel jump mods should do is reduce fall damage. Legs that make you jump that high become very powerful shock absorbents, due to its raw strength. The Official Ari QQ Thread
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:08:00 - [76] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Arirana wrote: The Minmatar Scout's racial bonus will become a 5% bonus to hack and melee speed per level. A melee speed bonus wouldn't mirror a certain glitch that a certain someone abused would it? Oh yeah I know for a fact that CCP is going to break it if they implement it and accidentally reintroduce the almighty melee glitch. That was my plan all along. The Official Ari QQ Thread
maybe deadcatz Horizons' Edge No Context 105	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:10:00 - [77] - Quote Arirana wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Arirana wrote: maybe deadcatz wrote: Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers Unfortunately for your post this is a thread about scouts, you want a jump mod QQ thread go make one. Id like to but theres no point. Scrubs will defend their op crap and exploits. Alright I'll humor you. When someone jumps at least as high and as fast as a min assault suit with 2 jump mods or more, the air resistance should make a person put their gun away until they begin falling back down. As a person begins falling back down it should be harder to look down due to the air resistance once again, making dropsuit aerial combat harder and turn jump mods into a tactical sacrifice of offense for defense, while keeping its maneuverability for capturing higher ground. Another thing I feel jump mods should do is reduce fall damage. Legs that make you jump that high become very powerful shock absorbents, due to its raw strength. Lets humor YOU. Too bad. The bonuses will stay the same most likely. You are attemtping to think too much in a game that is full of lag and exploits Ewar? What's that? Some kind of fancy new way of being lazy? Learn how to use your eyes and ears you maggots.
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:11:00 - [78] - Quote maybe deadcatz wrote: Lets humor YOU. Too bad. The bonuses will stay the same most likely. You are attemtping to think too much in a game that is full of lag and exploits You're mistaken. They exist because there is not enough thinking. The Official Ari QQ Thread
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 980	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:44:00 - [79] - Quote There would be plenty of reasons to use nova knives on a Min scout. With the damp bonus you could happily run two kincats and a damp in your low slots and be as fast and dampened as anyone. The Min scout's natural speed and stamina make it great for knifing. It's just that they might lose some flavour being known as "that suit which hacks" rather than "that suit which knifes". Although hacking is already the Min scout's primary identity in PC.
Arirana Negative-Feedback. 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 08:49:00 - [80] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: There would be plenty of reasons to use nova knives on a Min scout. With the damp bonus you could happily run two kincats and a damp in your low slots and be as fast and dampened as anyone. The Min scout's natural speed and stamina make it great for knifing. It's just that they might lose some flavour being known as "that suit which hacks" rather than "that suit which knifes". Although hacking is already the Min scout's primary identity in PC. Yes I agree, I made major edits to the OP btw I ask that you read them, I value your feedback. The Official Ari QQ Thread

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 980	Posted - 2015.06.13 09:10:00 - [81] - Quote Arirana wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: There would be plenty of reasons to use nova knives on a Min scout. With the damp bonus you could happily run two kincats and a damp in your low slots and be as fast and dampened as anyone. The Min scout's natural speed and stamina make it great for knifing. It's just that they might lose some flavour being known as "that suit which hacks" rather than "that suit which knifes". Although hacking is already the Min scout's primary identity in PC. Yes I agree, I made major edits to the OP btw I ask that you read them, I value your feedback. I like the ideas. The only reservation I have is that jamming isn't a mechanic in Dust, so it's unlikely to be implemented. I agree that Gallente would need an improved scanning bonus. Both range and precision at the same time can be problematic, however. A popular bonus for Amarr is to biotics. Apparently fast Amarr ships in Eve are very fast. Even though most are slow. It sounds like ECM is roughly similar to stealth. The only stealth mechanics in Dust are dampeners and cloaks. So I feel an extra cloak bonus for Caldari would be good for them, rather than scan range. So, assuming jamming mechanics aren't brought in, I'd go with this: +25% nova knife damage. Scout bonus: -15% cloak fitting per level. -3% profile per level. Min bonus: +5% hack speed per level. Amarr bonus: +5% biotic module efficiency per level. Gal bonus: +5% scan precision per level. Cal bonus: +5% cloak duration and recharge per level.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3	Posted - 2015.06.13 11:38:00 - [82] - Quote One of the most thought out and interesting ideas I have read regarding scouts for quite some time. +1 "Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
CUSE TOWN333 0uter.Heaven 2	Posted - 2015.06.13 12:32:00 - [83] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Oh and btw, in the OP you mentioned that the Gal Scout with 2 Codebreakers hacks as fast as a Min Scout with 1 Codebreaker, but that's not true. A Min Scout with 1 Codebreaker hacks faster than a Gal Scout with 2 Codebreakers. Of topic. What do you use for a speed hacker in PC? I tried all code breakers a while back but I was scanned to hell and had a hard time most of the time. I use a Minja. Usually it's not about stealth-hacks, but more about getting clinch-hacks whilst your team holds the reds off of the point for a few precious seconds. It usually doesn't matter if you're scanned in this situation because you're not trying for stealth and are relying on your teammates for protection. So yes, I use all Codebreakers. I find that they all make a significant difference. Yeah, that was my thought when I made the fit. I guess I need better coordination/support from my teammates. 2 damps and one codebreaker work well in situations were your teamates aren't real close to the letter your trying to take but its best to hunt the reddot guarding the letter before the hack. triple codebreaker for when fighting and chaos around the letter allows you to run in and YoLo clutch hack. CBM
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Liberation Force Paramilitary 7	Posted - 2015.06.13 13:03:00 - [84] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I stopped taking you seriously once you suggested using kincats with knives. I run KinCats on all my knifing fits. Am I doing it wrong? Every scout already has all the speed they need to use knives. If you feel the need to add kincats, you're playing them too recklessly. Rule 34.6.1: every parody will have a crossover
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:08:00 - [85] - Quote Arirana wrote: Words You are inferring a lot of things that are incorrect about the races. So to address your initial statement about the nova knives and "waaah its wrong for minmatar to use them"... Yes thje caldari make them, we also make a SMG for the minmatar. Caldari are rather mercantile and the ISHUKONE corporation are in fact rather sympathetic to the minmatar - handing over 'Insorum' to the Minmatar republic for free (Insorum is the permanent cure to a disease/toxin the amarr widely use to control their slaves. As it is the nova knife is a completely viable weapon almost all scouts the damage bonus the minmatar gets simultaneously does and doesn't change the weapons interactions. Now to address the actual racial combat philosophies. Minmatar = skirmish warfare. Caldari = Siege warfare. Gallente = Information warfare. Amarr = Armored warfare. The minmatar are not concerned in ANY MANNER with actual stealth on their scouts as a scout they do want to be 'stealthy'... but not stealthy compared to other scouts, what they are concerned with however is speed; which is why they move fast, have a nice highly lethal knife for people that don't see them and a hack bonus that when augmented by a single complex codebreaker causes them to hack at a speed of about 2 units... to most other dropsuits 1.0-1.2. The minmatar scout could be summed up as a 'subverter/assassin' There is little that the minmatar will not do if desperation pushes them towards it, and it just so happens that knives are cheap and adaptable and reliable one of two traits that minmatar favor (the other being 'versatility'). It's why they haven't bothered to advance past using conventionally 'primitive' firearms, the minmatar usually like low-tech or practical solutions to problems. The Amarr scout is also not concerned in any manner with actual stealth - but for entirely different reasons than the minmatar. Amarr love their pomp and ceremony, and ideally they love visibly seeing the fear in their opponents when bringing the wrath of god down upon them. The amarr design of scout is best summed up as a "Hunter-Killer"... which incidentally has real-world parallels within armored warfare doctrines. They are a very durable scout with the ability to cover a lot of distance and provide vision to their more heavily armored counterparts (assaults, sentinels and commandos) while still (in theory) being able to effectively detect, engage and kill other scouts. A large part of the amarr doctrine is about breaking the will of their opponents and they prize efficiency and discipline highly. The Caldari warfare doctrine is siege warfare and oh boy does their scout fit it. First off of all the scouts the caldari has by far the most ability to re-engage and regenerate hp (serious, 50hp/sec and 3/4s delays... some races would kill for that ability to recover HP on their assaults and sentinels) yes they only get about ~400 hp but they can hit you over and over and over making them easily one of the most combat oriented scouts. Thanks to their range bonuses, if they fit a single adv or better precision amp they have the ability to safely pick their engagements against bigger 'scarier' things like assaults due to seeing them at 45m, this also allows them to provide some data to their allies as well (who like to take a position and hold it). The dampening bonus is essentially how electronic countermeasures play out in dust - you cannot act on me while I act on you, it also provides the common racial parallel with the gallente that caldari have. These guys are probably in the truest sense 'scouts'. The caldari prize efficiency and predatory instinct, this is well represented by the calscout being the most 'fighty'. The Gallente warfare doctrine is Information warfare and their scout is an excellent representation. In a word it could be called an infiltrator or a ghost. Its dampening bonus actively denies opponents information, while its scanning bonus also helps it glean vital information. There's not a huge amount to say here... but as a lore nugget I'll say that the gallente tend to favor high tech solutions to problems. And finally... Why are you trying to fix a scout system that isn't broken? Apocalyptic Destroyerr wrote: I always wondered why the Minmitrash got bonuses to the Swarms and Novaknives.. Doesn't make a damn sense at all. They're not supposed to get a bonus to swarms... it has to do with how damage is flagged in this game [weapongroup$lightexplosive] rather than something like [weapongroup$minmatar] or whatever. The min commando is flagged to have a bonus to projectile and explosives (covering combat rifle and mass driver) but it just so happens that the swarm is flagged as explosive... which has caused ~~idiots~~ fotm chasers to flock to the mincom in droves Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:13:00 - [86] - Quote Arirana wrote: Proposal Your proposal is getting better; in the spirit of helping: 1) We're on the same page on this point, but I would highly recommend a class-wide efficacy bonus to profile dampeners instead of a class-wide base reduction to scan profile. There was a time when Scouts could stack plates and still beat scans; that wasn't a good time for balance. An efficacy bonus would keep Scouts in damps and, more importantly, would keep frontal slayers away from Assault Lite. For whatever it's worth, the idea of efficacy bonuses previously piqued Rattati's interest. 2) Knives are plenty viable on frames other than MinScout; they simply shine when run on a MinScout. I still see no reason to retire the hack-and-slash archetype; it is a good, fun archetype to have. I understand that Nova Knives are made by Caldari and employ Gallente tech, but these are inadequate reasons (in my opinion) to take such drastic measures. If you must, change the name and description of Nova Knives and add some rust to their color scheme. 3) For AM Scouts, would counter-propose a bonus to biotic efficacy. A "biotic scout" would be a fun Scout to run, and might even prove viable. It wouldn't get out-of-hand thanks to a low base speed and a limited number of high slots. 4) For CA Scouts, would counter-propose a partial reduction to cloakblind effect. This would make for an infiltration/recon unit with long-range, low-intensity scans and would be in keeping with lore. Comparatively strong performance at longer range is the Caldari calling card. Plus, Caldari manufacture cloak, so it stands to reason that their stealth units would get somewhat better mileage out of it. 5) For GA Scouts, would counter-propose an efficacy bonus to precision enhancers. This would make for an infiltration/recon unit with low-range, high-intensity scans. If my understanding is correct, comparatively strong performance at close range is in keeping with Gallente design. * My two cents. TL;DR 1) Scout Class Bonus: +15% cloak fitting reduction, +8% profile dampener efficacy 2) MN Scout Racial Bonus: Unchanged 3) AM Scout Racial Bonus: +10% base stamina, +5% biotic module efficacy 4) CA Scout Racial Bonus: +10% base scan range, -10% cloakblind effect 5) GA Scout Racial Bonus: +5% base scan range, +15% precision enhancer efficacy Here are the specific numbers: Google Doc Looking forward to your thoughts. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:19:00 - [87] - Quote Nachos wrote: Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Oh and btw, in the OP you mentioned that the Gal Scout with 2 Codebreakers hacks as fast as a Min Scout with 1 Codebreaker, but that's not true. A Min Scout with 1 Codebreaker hacks faster than a Gal Scout with 2 Codebreakers. they hack equally as fast...min scout bonus is 25%+ cmp codebreaker which brings it to 50% gal scout gets 2 x 25% bonuses because codebreakers have no stacking penalties All percentile mods aside from the jump speed on myo's have stacking penalties, all of them. Minscouts also hack at 1.15 units base compared to the galscouts 1.10 base. Then the minscouts 1.15 base gets increased by 25% from the hacking skill (or the min scout 5 skill, bonuses always apply highest to lowest, unpenalized to penalized). So 1.15(base speed) * 1.25(hacking 5) * 1.25(minscout 5) * 1.25(complex codebreaker, any codebreakers after this would be penalized) = 2.24609375 ~1.8 units base for a minscout with hacking 5 and minscout 5. ~2.25 units with a single hack mod 1.10(base speed) * 1.25(codebreaker #1) * 1.25 * [1.25.87=1.2175](penalized codebreaker) = 1.375 Galscout with hacking 5 and no codebreaker = 1.375 units. with 2 codebreakers the galscout is at 2.09ish speed. You're thinking that mods are additive when they're multiplicative. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.* I have a few alts.
gustavo acosta Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:20:00 - [88] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Arirana wrote: Proposal 2) Knives are plenty viable on frames other than MinScout; they simply shine when run on a MinScout. I still see no reason to retire the hack-and-slash archetype; it is a good, fun archetype to have. Completely false statement. I know it to be true that using knives on anything other than a min scout is a joke. Literally everyone gawks at anyone in game who even tries to put knives on a heavy, assault, and most scouts. You people are so damn detached from the game it really bugs me seeing you nerds on these forums amid the few that actually play it. Literally the bronies of the community. GimmeDatSuhWeet isk We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:24:00 - [89] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Arirana wrote: Proposal 2) Knives are plenty viable on frames other than MinScout; they simply shine when run on a MinScout. I still see no reason to retire the hack-and-slash archetype; it is a good, fun archetype to have. Completely false statement. I know it to be true that using knives on anything other than a min scout is a joke. Literally everyone gawks at anyone in game who even tries to put knives on a heavy, assault, and most scouts. You people are so damn detached from the game it really bugs me seeing you nerds on these forums amid the few that actually play it. Literally the bronies of the community. I've killed thousands of mercs with knives on suits other than my MinScout. I run Knives on my CalScout with an ARR; it's a decent loadout; you should try it sometime. I've run knives on my GalScout as well off and on for the past couple years; it isn't bad when paired with AR, Bolt or SMG. PS: I still play, by the way. Pushing 90M SP, and still in the top 100 in global kills (or very close to it). Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley (for CPM2)
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 3	Posted - 2015.06.13 14:33:00 - [90] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Arirana wrote: Proposal 2) Knives are plenty viable on frames other than MinScout; they simply shine when run on a MinScout. I still see no reason to retire the hack-and-slash archetype; it is a good, fun archetype to have. Completely false statement. I know it to be true that using knives on anything other than a min scout is a joke. Literally everyone gawks at anyone in game who even tries to put knives on a heavy, assault, and most scouts. You people are so damn detached from the game it really bugs me seeing you nerds on these forums amid the few that actually play it. Literally the bronies of the community. Oh they're viable on other frames gustavo... just not non-scout frames (aside from the incredibly stupid shotgun / knife min assaults that have popped up recently). I'm relatively okay with this, but I do get really annoyed with how religiously scouts guard the shotgun: rather than having it be a decent 'option' for most/all suits in short range fights, it is relegated strictly to the hands of the scout which is the only suit that has the combination of footspeed and dampening required to make it work. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.



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