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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 05:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
DDx77 wrote:Yes the min scout needs a buff like this big time. Not at all true.
So basically the anti-general nova knife buff argument is "nuuuu we cants be scoutly bustards with minscout nks, it'll lose the flavour of the suit."
I mean if you like pathogenic reasoning like this that favors individual preference over general game balance, I'd advise you to agree. I'd advise you to become a communist, I'd advise you to believe religion over science, I'd advise you to hate people for their race.
Baseless emotional arguments/ideas have their place is society right?
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 19:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
DDx77 wrote:gustavo acosta wrote:DDx77 wrote:Yes the min scout needs a buff like this big time. Not at all true. So basically the anti-general nova knife buff argument is "nuuuu we cants be scoutly bustards with minscout nks, it'll lose the flavour of the suit." I mean if you like pathogenic reasoning like this that favors individual preference over general game balance, I'd advise you to agree. I'd advise you to become a communist, I'd advise you to believe religion over science, I'd advise you to become an extremist for that religion, I'd advise you to hate people for their race. Baseless emotional arguments/ideas have their place is society right? Response that is based in misunderstanding I buffing all scouts in terms of dampening would be great, but that doesn't mean the minmatar scout should be the only infantry that can use knives viably.
I played both now only minscout because lolE-war. It would balance the scales because it's fundamentally imbalanced that only one suit is able to use a specific weapon effectively.
I wouldn't care what bonus the suit got as long as it didn't render the knives OP. Actually I almost always avoid getting knifed by a sneaky scout.
You're an idiot, a general nova knife buff would mean that nova knifes would no longer be only effective on min scouts.
I described all the other baseless emotional arguments and ideas because they all have one thing in common; they're all run by idealistic, narcissists that believe in things without actual reasoning. I made the connection to communism because it's an economic system that has never worked in favor of anyone except tyrants. Nova knifes should not be limited to only ones suit it's a beyond idiotic idea, like communism.
You don't anything about the socio-economic idealism of communism if that's you're description of it.
To reiterate, you're an idiot.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote: Why skill into a whole suit just to speed hack?
I did it and have absolutely no regrets. I definitely didn't do it for the knife bonus, or to be a pretentious imbecile on the forums about being a scout. I did it because speed hacks are useful in objective games, and I didn't want to have to use all my tank to get a good hack out.
One Eyed King wrote: Get a Gal Scout and stack it with 4 CBs and you'll be close enough not to know the difference.
Everything is about increments in this game I can say the same thing about fitting optimization, cpu bonuses, pg bonuses, damage bonuses. Why aren't complaining about those 3%-5%
One Eyed King wrote: For as many people that have huge amounts of SP and are willing to respec, they could easily just ditch the Min Scout, keep their Gal Scout, and have a scout close enough to a Minja for it not to matter.
They can stack KCs for speed, and CBs for hacks.
The ONLY thing they can't stick a mod on for is stamina regen, which can be negated by just throwing on a Cardiac Reg and having a big enough stamina pool not to matter.
There are way too many differences between a gal scout and min scout for there to be an overlap. Different tank, different slot layout, different bonus, different stats. If you honestly think that the knifing bonus is the only thing keeping the minmmatar scout the highest rated scout, you're beyond detached from the game.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 08:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arirana wrote:The Minmatar Scout's racial bonus will become a 5% bonus to hack and melee speed per level.
A melee speed bonus wouldn't mirror a certain glitch that a certain someone abused would it?
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 14:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:2) Knives are plenty viable on frames other than MinScout; they simply shine when run on a MinScout. I still see no reason to retire the hack-and-slash archetype; it is a good, fun archetype to have. Completely false statement. I know it to be true that using knives on anything other than a min scout is a joke. Literally everyone gawks at anyone in game who even tries to put knives on a heavy, assault, and most scouts. You people are so damn detached from the game it really bugs me seeing you nerds on these forums amid the few that actually play it.
Literally the bronies of the community.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: I've killed thousands of mercs with knives on suits other than my MinScout. I run Knives on my CalScout with an ARR; it's a decent loadout; you should try it sometime. I've run knives on my GalScout as well off and on for the past couple years; it isn't bad when paired with AR, Bolt or SMG.
PS: I still play, by the way, though admittedly not as much as I'd like to. Pushing 90M SP and still in the top 100 in global kills (or very close to it).
Scouts, not heavies, not assaults, not logies, not amarr scout. I guess viable on most other frames is right, you know the 3/16 ratio really says it all. "Totally balanced for every suit to enjoy." Goodness I'm gonna puke at the ignorance in this statement, look buddy I don't care about your dumb fits, I know you don't play this game enough if you honestly perpetuate the (stupid) idea that the min scout(or scouts whatever you're suggesting) should be the only suit to use nova knifes.
If you do play the game, and are in fact pushing 90 million sp then run it on an assault, you have to be doing something with all that sp right? I doubt it all went into cores and "scutly bustardnes prof 69."
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 14:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mina Longstrike wrote:[ Oh they're viable on other frames gustavo... just not non-scout frames (aside from the incredibly stupid shotgun / knife min assaults that have popped up recently). I'm relatively okay with this, but I do get really annoyed with how religiously scouts guard the shotgun: rather than having it be a decent 'option' for most/all suits in short range fights, it is relegated strictly to the hands of the scout which is the only suit that has the combination of footspeed and dampening required to make it work. I'm actually fine with the shotgun on my assault gk.0, lord knows I won't run it on my gal scout anymore. Of course it's awful outside the city maps, but nova knives are completely worthless on other frames. Even the fast running min assault with nova knifes are hilariously dumb joke fits.
Dampening isn't really needed anymore, who needs it when you're running at almost 9 m/s with a scan range of 30 m and 700 hp. One precision enhancer and I can see most fits, and the ones I can't see get screwed over because they don't have the hp to compensate, this is all on my gal assault.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 16:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: I do hope you'll be able to put away your epeen and try to focus on the topic at hand. Not sure why you're keen on pounding chest; I've well over twice your kills, well over twice your KDR, and I was running Scout suits long before you found your way to the frame while chasing FoTM. If you're able to calm yourself down and pay attention, friend, there is a good chance you might learn something.
Whose alt is this? How do you only have 23 kills? Don't tell me this is seriously someone's main lol. I don't run fotm, I'm a semi-loyal gallente loyalist that just so happens to also be an omni-soldier. K/d and kills mean shite to me. Playing the game while being on the forums is one of the few things I commend.
Adipem Nothi wrote: Nova Knives on a MinScout provide alpha sufficient to insta-gank almost any unit in the game. The fact that MinScouts are extremely squishy and easier to scan than GA/CA Scouts provide mechanical counterbalance to this potent alpha strike. If this same alpha potential could be wielded by higher-hitpoint units, the risk of knifing would decline and the reward would hold constant; knives would likely become OP. Further, if this same alpha potential were wielded by CA and GA Scouts -- who can duck competitive scans with only one damp -- knives would likely become OP.
Hp and strafe speed of the minmatar scout is the biggest factor in their survivability which is still sizable. There is absolutely no way that nova knives would become OP because of how little range they cover compared to the other sidearms. If they sacrifice their tank for dampening of course they deserve to reap the rewards. Scouts aren't supposed to be weapons specialists, it's made clear by their bonuses.
Adipem Nothi wrote: Rattati has made it clear that he wishes for all reasonable playstyles to be competitively viable. Speed and stealth-oriented, low-HP playstyles are reasonable playstyles, and the only way that these can compete is through high-risk, high-reward alpha takedown. If high-alpha weaponry is wielded just as effectively by high-HP loadouts, low-HP loadouts become that much less competitive.
Why can't medium frames and heavy frames have low hp playstyles? Why do knives have to be restricted to low hp playstyles? I mean in all honesty I haven't seen any low hp suit being competitive anymore, so I think you have a bit of a skewed view of "what Rattati wants," but that's beside the point. I still don't see good reason to disallow nova knives to be viable on regular suits since they're just like every other sidearm except they gimp suits to a 5 meter range. In fact with that in mind, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be viable on assaults, heavies, and logies.
High hp loadouts normally mean low speed(with the exclusion of the assault anomalies) so even if the knives were viable on them they still would not be viable, except in very specific cqc fights. You're under the assumption that fitting nova knives means that one will actively search specifically for knife kills. They're a sidearm just like every other sidearm in the game, they have advantages and disadvantages, and with this one in particular the disadvantages outweigh the benefits.
A damage buff and minmatar rework would definitely allow knives to be viable on other suits, but in no way impede the ability of the current knife meta to use them, and definitely allow for low hp fits to flourish.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: 1. It is a fact that MinScout kill/spawn efficiency is currently among the lowest in the game.
2. Prior to falloff, Shotgun efficiency was among the highest of all light weapons despite its severely limited optimal range.
3. The MinScout's racial bonus to Knives is a major talking point in this thread.
4. Because the Base HP of Assault, Commando and Heavy base preclude them from being low-HP units.
5. I seriously doubt that Rattati is happy with the state of King HP. Low-HP playstyles have every right to be competitively viable; the fact that they presently are not is a balance issue. As we speak, there's an open Dev thread on the subject (Speed/eHP Curve).
6. I think it probable that GalScout and CalScout knifers would become overpowered if granted the MinScout's present alpha; their slot configs and racial bonuses permit them to dampen and simultaneously maintain comparatively decent HP. Giving these units better alpha potential would introduce new imbalance.
1. It's still the most used scout in the game.
2. It's overly used in PC falloff has nothing to do with it, and there's no comparison between them and nova knives.
3. Okay?
4. Low-Hp is relative the TTK of an untanked sentinel and an untanked scout is essentially the same.
5. Why? Of course they do, but they aren't which leads me to believe that Ratatati is in favor of King HP nothing has been put into place to make sure the two stay in balance. In fact there has been a great amount of working against such balance in recent updates.
6. In their current state there's absolutely no way any scout will become overpowered. It's all relative, a min scout can currently tank a decent HP relative to heavies because they actually kill heavies despite taking x amount of damage when the heavy turns around. There's absolutely no way a scout can achieve the speed, reps, tank, stamina, and dampening to paint the narrative you're pushing.
6. N
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 17:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote: Gallente scouts are the most used. They are only very rarely dethroned, according to the market data.
Minmatar scouts aren't doing too badly, close behind Gallente scouts, in usage. However, according to Rattati's data, the Min scout has the second worse k/s of all (non-basic) proto suits, after Min logis.
Ooo market data fluctuation, well they were the most used, and honestly that's enough to disregard the rabble about it.
I'm sure that kills per spawn can be mitigated with a buff to profile as the OP suggests, but I don't see a reason why to allow minmatar scouts be the only suit to use nova knives effectively.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 17:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
whoops brah.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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