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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:52:00 -
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I believe all of the scouts' racial bonuses and overall roles should really be reconsidered, due to issues with their definable roles. Take the min scout for example.
Its the fastest and squishiest of them all in terms of attributes. Makes sense. But the racial bonuses do not really sit right when common sense and deductive reasoning is involved.
+5% bonus to hacking speed and Nova Knife damage per level. Sounds good, speedy, squishy, fast hacks and extra damage with nova knives. Except the Nova Knife is a CALDARI WEAPON. Why would a minmatar suit receive RACIAL bonus damage to a caldari weapon?
A damage bonus so significant you might as well put "Only viable when used by the minmatar scout, really" in the Nova Knife description. The Nova Knife in general appears to primarily be a stealth, charge up cqc weapon. So in order to use it effectively, you HAVE to double damp up (thanks to the team shared scans of the mvp GalEagle-Eye Logi) and run a kin cat to get close (lol cloaks)
But what about the hacking bonus? Does that mean the min scout is meant to be the speed hacker role? That would be the case, if not for the gal logi yet again. Even with 2 proto damps and a codebreaker, the min scout can STILL be scanned by a focused scanner wielded by the gal logi(not to mention you will be rather sluggish to utilize your knives)
Yet the gal scout equipped with double damps and double codebreakers achieves the same HP anf hack speed as that min scout fit, but can beat a gal logi with a focused scanner. This is because of the gal scout's "3% to scan profile per level" bonus, a bonus which would be invaluable to both a speed hacker and someone wielding the Nova Knives.
So heres an idea: set the "3% to scan profile per level" bonus as the scout suit bonus alongside the scout bonus to CPU/pg cost of the lol cloak. Then remove the bonus damage to caldari nova knives from the min scout. To counteract this nerf to the already outclassed-by-the-shotgun nova knives (I know NKs have more DPS, but that doesn't mean anything to a shotgunner dancing just out of butter knife range) just increase the base damage of the nova knives by 25%. Yay viable knives for everyone.
Remove the stamina bonus to the amarr scout to make room for the stealth bonus (if the stamina of the amarr scout really should stay that high then change the base values).
Move the stealth bonus of the cal and gal scout over to the scout suit bonus and boom, almost golden.
Now the racial bonus the gal scout will be left with. A 2% bonus to scan precision simply makes no sense considering the amarr scout bonus is the same thing 2.5 times better. I really can't think of a good replacement bonus, besides maybe an additional bonus to scan profile, but that really seems redundant. Someone else will have to come up with a better one.
All of that^ is my current idea of pro eve lore yet balanced, defined scout roles. Yeah, I know it will mainly be a buff to the min and amarr scout's stealth, no different for the cal scout and maybe only a slight change for the gal scout. I'm not satisfied with that either, so let's discuss it. What do you guys think the bonuses should be?
TL;DR: Give all scouts the same 3% bonus to scan profile, remove min scout DMG bonus to Caldari Nova Knives, remove or apply the amarr scout stamina bonus to directly to its base attributes, change the gal scout 2% scan profile bonus to something not 2/5ths of the amarr scout bonus. Buff base nova knife DMG by 25% (yay useful knives for everyone)
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Arirana
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970
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Posted - 2015.06.11 23:18:00 -
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Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:Hmm... What kind of bonus could we have to replace the Nova Knife damage bonus? Or could we still keep our damage bonus and have super duper Knives? The Scout bonuses seem to be working ok to me, and I don't think they really need another major shake-up since the last one when the Cal Scout was OP, or even when the Amarr Scout was the best back when we had a larger Scan Radius. I think the only Scout that should have it's bonuses looked is the Amarr Scout. The stealth bonus. If that's really not enough, I had an idea involving swapping some of the min scout's CPU for more base pg. I'm sure you can see the appeal of that.
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Arirana
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972
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Posted - 2015.06.11 23:31:00 -
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I understand the primary argument from a min scout's point of view being "but that's my BAYBAY!" but think about it for a minute. Nova Knives are only OK-ish on any non min scout. The nova knives should not be monopolized by a single scout suit, they should be a viable extreme cqc sidearm option for anyone who wants to slice their unsuspecting targets with deadly efficiency, not 3-4 times a charm o **** how is he still alive efficiency.
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Arirana
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972
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Posted - 2015.06.11 23:41:00 -
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DR DEESE NUTS wrote:Lol. Nova knives are plasma and cqc oriented. They are obviously Gallente. Don't know why people think there Caldari. It's literally the opposite of the Caldari doctrine which shoot from long range and make every shot count. Oppose to Gallente which get in close and bi tch` slap them with loads of damage. That rings true lore wise but what about the model design? It undeniably looks like caldari tech with straight edges and sharp corners.
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Arirana
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972
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Posted - 2015.06.11 23:52:00 -
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Diablo Gamekeeper wrote: I believe galscout has to be triple damp to escape the scans
Gal logi focused scans reach 15db, the gal scout with 2 damps hits 16, -10% with a proto cloak activated it drops below 15. I'm comparing cloaked speedhackera.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 05:48:00 -
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Varoth Drac wrote:Interestingly I made almost the exact same proposal in the barbershop a while back.
A potential alternative Gallente scout bonus would be to cloak duration/recharge. Or give Caldari the cloak bonus and Galente scan range, if you want to be more racially aligned.
There are issues however. Firstly there is the danger of making the Minmatar scout overpowered. Also, whilst I like the idea of making knives more viable on other suits, removing the knife bonus to Min scouts potentially loses the flavour and heart of the suit. Knives are part of a Min scout's identity. Losing the bonus, even if knife damage was buffed generally, would remove that identity. I feel that the min scout won't be losing it's heart, rather it will be sharing it with everyone, and the gal and cal scouts will be sharing its stealth with it and the amarr scout.
I really like your idea for the bonuses for the cal and gal scouts, I'll be adding that to the post until I see a better one, and giving credit to you of course.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 06:30:00 -
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I think you guys are forgetting the fact that the min scout still has a speed hack bonus, which becomes more useful with the newly added stealth.
And like I said, Nova Knives are a Caldari weapon. The Minmatar scout's identity had no business being best at using a caldari weapon in the first place, its just a rollover mistake from the previous less competent devs that unfortunately is being held onto like like a bald guy wears a combover and claims he has a full head of hair.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:49:00 -
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One Eyed King wrote: Why skill into a whole suit just to speed hack?
Get a Gal Scout and stack it with 4 CBs and you'll be close enough not to know the difference.
For as many people that have huge amounts of SP and are willing to respec, they could easily just ditch the Min Scout, keep their Gal Scout, and have a scout close enough to a Minja for it not to matter.
They can stack KCs for speed, and CBs for hacks.
The ONLY thing they can't stick a mod on for is stamina regen, which can be negated by just throwing on a Cardiac Reg and having a big enough stamina pool not to matter.
Its not unlike where the Amarr are now. They are good scouts, but pretty much anything they can do, Gals can do better, and since the Precision bonus is now crap like I said earlier, there is no reason to run them other than being the Empress' cuckhold.
Your post has convinced me that the speed hack bonus is not enough, but minmatar racial bonus to cal knives still cannot be justified. I think an extra 5% melee speed bonus per level on top of the hacking speed bonus would be both inline with racial lore and enough to make it worth it. It will become the only scout that doesn't have to decloak to kill.
I have also revised my suggestion for the amarr scout bonus please read it I value your opinion,
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Arirana
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1
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Posted - 2015.06.13 07:53:00 -
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maybe deadcatz wrote:
Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers
Unfortunately for your post this is a thread about scouts, you want a jump mod QQ thread go make one.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 08:05:00 -
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maybe deadcatz wrote:Arirana wrote:maybe deadcatz wrote:
Leave the scouts alone. Worry about jumping mass driver minspammers
Unfortunately for your post this is a thread about scouts, you want a jump mod QQ thread go make one. Id like to but theres no point. Scrubs will defend their op crap and exploits. Alright I'll humor you. When someone jumps at least as high and as fast as a min assault suit with 2 jump mods or more, the air resistance should make a person put their gun away until they begin falling back down. As a person begins falling back down it should be harder to look down due to the air resistance once again, making dropsuit aerial combat harder and turn jump mods into a tactical sacrifice of offense for defense, while keeping its maneuverability for capturing higher ground.
Another thing I feel jump mods should do is reduce fall damage. Legs that make you jump that high become very powerful shock absorbents, due to its raw strength.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 08:08:00 -
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gustavo acosta wrote:Arirana wrote:The Minmatar Scout's racial bonus will become a 5% bonus to hack and melee speed per level. A melee speed bonus wouldn't mirror a certain glitch that a certain someone abused would it? Oh yeah I know for a fact that CCP is going to break it if they implement it and accidentally reintroduce the almighty melee glitch. That was my plan all along.
The Official Ari QQ Thread
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 08:11:00 -
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maybe deadcatz wrote: Lets humor YOU. Too bad. The bonuses will stay the same most likely. You are attemtping to think too much in a game that is full of lag and exploits
You're mistaken. They exist because there is not enough thinking.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 08:49:00 -
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Varoth Drac wrote:There would be plenty of reasons to use nova knives on a Min scout. With the damp bonus you could happily run two kincats and a damp in your low slots and be as fast and dampened as anyone. The Min scout's natural speed and stamina make it great for knifing.
It's just that they might lose some flavour being known as "that suit which hacks" rather than "that suit which knifes". Although hacking is already the Min scout's primary identity in PC. Yes I agree, I made major edits to the OP btw I ask that you read them, I value your feedback.
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Arirana
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Posted - 2015.06.13 18:30:00 -
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Varoth Drac wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Added fits to previous post. I'm of the opinion that stamina regen and slight speed advantage would not prove substantial enough to overcome the Cal/Gal HP advantage.
Hmmmmmmm....... enhanced shields. The Min scout's low PG still needs some jiggery pokery to get round. I would replace one Kincat on the Min with a codebreaker. However, this makes a fair comparison difficult. So instead how about this: On Min scout- Swap one shield on the Min scout with a precision enhancer. Swap one kincat for a ferroscale (yes, abhorent I know, bear with me). Replace remaining enhanced shields with complex. On Gal scout- Swap a shield for a precision. Swap a kincat for a reactive. Cal scout- Leave the same. Now we have scouts with much more similar stats. All able to passively scan assaults at long range. The issue now is, the Gal and Cal scout racial bonuses to EWAR (or cloaks is changed) would benefit their ability to use knives, whereas the Min scout hack bonus doesn't. The Min scout's natural speed and stamina do help it though. And the hack bonus is awesome anyway. Honestly this issue has been brought up before and previously I've made it known that the min scout is supposed to be the dual tanker race, so having the same armor as the cal scout is inconsistent with that notion, as well as the fact that cal and gal scouts have a base HP advantage of over 15% of the min scouts base hp, and amarr scout has an HP advantage over 25% of the min scouts HP.
The speed bonus the min scout has as a tradeoff doesn't even come close to those figures.
Not to mention the min scout has by far the lowest pg of all of the scouts, which is completely unwarranted.
I suggest giving 5-10 extra armor to the min scout and swapping around 20 base CPU for 4 pg.
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