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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5126	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:53:00 - [601] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: For example, I am making some rediculous marduk fits with shield extenders and shield hardeners with a nitro, 2 complex light armor repairers and 2 basic plates... proto blaster with 2 small basic rails... What inventive shield fits are there going to be? Extender Extender Extender Extender Hardener ammo expansion plate Again I think this comes full circle to the fact that passive regeneration is really the only true means of regaining HP. I mean sure you have boosters but they're difficult to fit a lot of the time, and they're more of a means to trigger passive regeneration than they are actively regenerating HP. That being said if your entire means to regain HP is in passive regen, and you have no means to improve that regen (rechargers for example) there is little reason to NOT max out eHP. Pretty much all of my Gunnlogi fits are 4 extenders and a hardener too because I have very little reason NOT to do that. We got more slots, but without new modules and restricting to a single hardener instead of addressing the issues with hardeners directly....I feel like in terms of freedom of fitting its 2 steps forward and 2 steps back. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:01:00 - [602] - Quote Gladius fits don't have enough pg or cpu with 250,000,000 skill points.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:08:00 - [603] - Quote I don't know if my proto fits is bugged but I can't even fit 4 complex extenders and a complex hardener on a Gladius with a blaster and basic rails... nothing in the low slots.. Boosters take more pg than extenders and defiantly wouldn't fit, even if they weren't broken...
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 213	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:09:00 - [604] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: For example, I am making some rediculous marduk fits with shield extenders and shield hardeners with a nitro, 2 complex light armor repairers and 2 basic plates... proto blaster with 2 small basic rails... What inventive shield fits are there going to be? Extender Extender Extender Extender Hardener ammo expansion plate Again I think this comes full circle to the fact that passive regeneration is really the only true means of regaining HP. I mean sure you have boosters but they're difficult to fit a lot of the time, and they're more of a means to trigger passive regeneration than they are actively regenerating HP. That being said if your entire means to regain HP is in passive regen, and you have no means to improve that regen (rechargers for example) there is little reason to NOT max out eHP. Pretty much all of my Gunnlogi fits are 4 extenders and a hardener too because I have very little reason NOT to do that. We got more slots, but without new modules and restricting to a single hardener instead of addressing the issues with hardeners directly....I feel like in terms of freedom of fitting its 2 steps forward and 2 steps back. New slots are at least a step in the right direction, and I've made a few theory-fits with nitros and boosters (because I keep hoping they get fixed)...it's just a light tank isn't the style I personally like (it's entirely possible to do with the new Gunnlogi slot layout though...just needs more base fittings, and low slots to have some competitive utilities...fitting mods don't need to be hit as hard...etc etc...). My personal preference is for a heavy tank, and I'd gladly fit some regulators in the low-slots to increase my regen...or maybe even drop an extender for a recharger...if shield delay wasn't a thing the decision would be easier...but the mod has to exist for the decision to take place(But you and I have already talked about shield recharge delay before pokey). Additionally, all game mechanics need to be taken into account when looking at how vehicles can interact with the game over-all. The HP needs to be able to be restored to a reasonable amount, in an small enough amount of time to where it isn't more advantageous to call in a new HAV and recall the old one. This can be accomplished easily on shields using a regen time (or pseudo regen time system), and armor can be solved with a better regen bonus in the vicinity of a supply depot (of which, we need more that vehicles can actually use...Rattati Please?)...shields could also use a supplemental shield regen bonus from supply depots (in place of the pseudo time system, or to augment it)...provided that being around it also reduced the shield delay, and Depleted Delay... I think we can at least agree that the slot layout is a step in the right direction...the fitting numbers need played with (buffed slightly in both cases), and fitting mods don't need to be hit as hard as Rattati is proposing (if they need changed at all). Assuming we get new mods at some point close to the release of these changes (or at the same time if possible). Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper. Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5128	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:10:00 - [605] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: I don't know if my proto fits is bugged but I can't even fit 4 complex extenders and a complex hardener on a Gladius with a blaster and basic rails... nothing in the low slots.. Boosters take more pg than extenders and defiantly wouldn't fit, even if they weren't broken... I seem to recall having to fit PG/CPU modules to get it all to fit....though I know I wasn't putting a Blaster on it so that might some of the issue? Are you short on PG, CPU, or both? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:19:00 - [606] - Quote I like the new slot layout I like armor tanks getting more cpu/pg I like the turret changes I like passive small armor reps on all hulls the bad -nerfed base hull stats -nerfed shield regen on shield tanks -nerfed hardeners - not enough pg cpu with 250,000,000 skill points -pg/cpu mods nerfed into uselessness -shield boosters broken
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:21:00 - [607] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I don't know if my proto fits is bugged but I can't even fit 4 complex extenders and a complex hardener on a Gladius with a blaster and basic rails... nothing in the low slots.. Boosters take more pg than extenders and defiantly wouldn't fit, even if they weren't broken... I seem to recall having to fit PG/CPU modules to get it all to fit....though I know I wasn't putting a Blaster on it so that might some of the issue? Are you short on PG, CPU, or both? Short on both, and the nerfed chips don't help. . Can make it work with the old style chips, but even then ... maxed out skills and you need two chip mods? That's without the more pg hungry boosters even being contemplated.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5128	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:27:00 - [608] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: I don't know if my proto fits is bugged but I can't even fit 4 complex extenders and a complex hardener on a Gladius with a blaster and basic rails... nothing in the low slots.. Boosters take more pg than extenders and defiantly wouldn't fit, even if they weren't broken... How are shield users supposed to fit anything in the low slots other than ammo? Ok I just did a full complex 4Extender 1 Hardener fit on a SHAV. Even without a turret, you're pretty much maxed on PG (2573/2610) and thats with nothing in the lows. Now...if a fit should be full proto or not is an entirely different argument so I won't comment on that at this time, but at the very least the fitting between the Madrugar and Gunnlogi needs to be fair. I'm not sure how much you've played around with Madrugar fits but I'll lay out what I've experienced so far. Note that I've just been playing with the SHAVs specifically, but it shouldn't really matter for a MBT since they have effectively the same resources to work with. It's very difficult to fit full proto low slots. Typically I ended up with Complex Hardener, Complex Repairer, and x2 Enhanced 120mm Plates I fit a Prototype Large Blaster I was unable to fit all of my high slots with utility modules. Complex Scanner, Enhanced Damage Modifier, Basic Injector So again I'm not stating an opinion weather a proto tank should be able fit full proto or not, I'm simply stating what needs to happen with the Gunnlogi fitting if it is to be fair with the Madrugar fitting About half of its highs should be proto About half of its highs should be enhanced It should be able to fit utility mods in the lows (Ammo Cache doesn't count) that have an average tier of Enhanced Now this is....impossible to do since we don't have any low utility modules that aren't ammo caches, but I think it would fair to call Regulators (which from my understanding are still in the plan) "utility" modules. So assuming the Madrugar is the baseline I imagine a Gunnlogi would look something like this Complex Shield Hardener Complex Shield Extender Complex/Enhanced Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Regulator Enhanced Shield Regulator Prototype Turret (I'd say make it difficult to fit a Proto Blaster on a Gunnlogi, same with making it difficult to fit Missiles on a Madrugar. I'd put Rails right in the middle) "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:39:00 - [609] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I don't know if my proto fits is bugged but I can't even fit 4 complex extenders and a complex hardener on a Gladius with a blaster and basic rails... nothing in the low slots.. Boosters take more pg than extenders and defiantly wouldn't fit, even if they weren't broken... How are shield users supposed to fit anything in the low slots other than ammo? Ok I just did a full complex 4Extender 1 Hardener fit on a SHAV. Even without a turret, you're pretty much maxed on PG (2573/2610) and thats with nothing in the lows. Now...if a fit should be full proto or not is an entirely different argument so I won't comment on that at this time, but at the very least the fitting between the Madrugar and Gunnlogi needs to be fair. I'm not sure how much you've played around with Madrugar fits but I'll lay out what I've experienced so far. Note that I've just been playing with the SHAVs specifically, but it shouldn't really matter for a MBT since they have effectively the same resources to work with. It's very difficult to fit full proto low slots. Typically I ended up with Complex Hardener, Complex Repairer, and x2 Enhanced 120mm Plates I fit a Prototype Large Blaster I was unable to fit all of my high slots with utility modules. Complex Scanner, Enhanced Damage Modifier, Basic Injector So again I'm not stating an opinion weather a proto tank should be able fit full proto or not, I'm simply stating what needs to happen with the Gunnlogi fitting if it is to be fair with the Madrugar fitting About half of its highs should be proto About half of its highs should be enhanced It should be able to fit utility mods in the lows (Ammo Cache doesn't count) that have an average tier of Enhanced Now this is....impossible to do since we don't have any low utility modules that aren't ammo caches, but I think it would fair to call Regulators (which from my understanding are still in the plan) "utility" modules. So assuming the Madrugar is the baseline I imagine a Gunnlogi would look something like this Complex Shield Hardener Complex Shield Extender Complex/Enhanced Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Regulator Enhanced Shield Regulator Prototype Turret (I'd say make it difficult to fit a Proto Blaster on a Gunnlogi, same with making it difficult to fit Missiles on a Madrugar. I'd put Rails right in the middle) Yeah so the marduk fit I made had 2500 shields with a complex hardner bumping that up to around 3600. It also had 4700 armor with 210 immediate reps per second. There is no shield fit with enhanced extenders and one hardener that is going to do anything but shoot rails from the redline. Stack those damage mods.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5129	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:53:00 - [610] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Yeah so the marduk fit I made had 2500 shields with a complex hardner bumping that up to around 3600. It also had 4700 armor with 210 immediate reps per second. There is no shield fit with enhanced extenders and one hardener that is going to do anything but shoot rails from the redline. Stack those damage mods. Again this comes back to the fundamental issue that passive regen is basically the only thing we get. It puts WAY too much emphasis on eHP which is going to make shield extenders feel like they're not worth it next to plates. I mean without getting into a shouting match, I could see a situation where the shield HAV is capable of fitting full proto highs if it dedicates its utility slots to PG/CPU enhancers. That being said, a half complex half enhanced Gunnlogi with utilitiy in its low, still needs to remain viable if that similar setup on the Madrugar is also viable. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 02:03:00 - [611] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Yeah so the marduk fit I made had 2500 shields with a complex hardner bumping that up to around 3600. It also had 4700 armor with 210 immediate reps per second. There is no shield fit with enhanced extenders and one hardener that is going to do anything but shoot rails from the redline. Stack those damage mods. Again this comes back to the fundamental issue that passive regen is basically the only thing we get. It puts WAY too much emphasis on eHP which is going to make shield extenders feel like they're not worth it next to plates. I mean without getting into a shouting match, I could see a situation where the shield HAV is capable of fitting full proto highs if it dedicates its utility slots to PG/CPU enhancers. That being said, a half complex half enhanced Gunnlogi with utilitiy in its low, still needs to remain viable if that similar setup on the Madrugar is also viable. Yeah I can fit the armor tank proto hardener proto plate proto reps proto reps nitro scanner the shield tank would only be able to fit all proto if the cpu/pg nerf is scrapped or better yet, cpu pg is buffed. are the proto tanks rail fitting proposed bonus applied in proto fits? Not that it would give you much.. should almost apply to all turrets.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5132	Posted - 2015.03.03 02:13:00 - [612] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Yeah I can fit the armor tank proto hardener proto plate proto reps proto reps nitro scanner the shield tank would only be able to fit all proto if the cpu/pg nerf is scrapped or better yet, cpu pg is buffed. are the proto tanks rail fitting proposed bonus applied in proto fits? Not that it would give you much.. should almost apply to all turrets. Well if you're leaving slots empty, sure that'll obviously free up resources. But it's very difficult to fit full proto defenses on an armor HAV and still fill all of its slots. If a shield tank wants to leave its lows empty to fit full proto, that seems reasonable as well. Honestly I've always seen the use of CPU/PG enhancers (at least on dropsuits) as a "wasted" fit and really only use them if I'm doing something very specific/weird with the fit. I think an asset should be able to be fit properly without PG/CPU extenders. Now regardless of what defines "proper fit" it needs to be fair for all vehicles within the class. So you're right, if the Madrugar can fit full proto by leaving some slots empty, it seems reasonable that the Gunnlogi should be able to do the same. One thing you do need to look out for is the fact that main defense modules will almost always cost a lot more than a utility module, so the tradeoff can't always been seen as entirely equivalent. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 02:34:00 - [613] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Yeah I can fit the armor tank proto hardener proto plate proto reps proto reps nitro scanner the shield tank would only be able to fit all proto if the cpu/pg nerf is scrapped or better yet, cpu pg is buffed. are the proto tanks rail fitting proposed bonus applied in proto fits? Not that it would give you much.. should almost apply to all turrets. Well if you're leaving slots empty, sure that'll obviously free up resources. But it's very difficult to fit full proto defenses on an armor HAV and still fill all of its slots. If a shield tank wants to leave its lows empty to fit full proto, that seems reasonable as well. Honestly I've always seen the use of CPU/PG enhancers (at least on dropsuits) as a "wasted" fit and really only use them if I'm doing something very specific/weird with the fit. I think an asset should be able to be fit properly without PG/CPU extenders. Now regardless of what defines "proper fit" it needs to be fair for all vehicles within the class. So you're right, if the Madrugar can fit full proto by leaving some slots empty, it seems reasonable that the Gunnlogi should be able to do the same. One thing you do need to look out for is the fact that main defense modules will almost always cost a lot more than a utility module, so the tradeoff can't always been seen as entirely equivalent. I think that the 'fitting all proto' balance is one way to look at it, the more important point should be that the all proto armor fits are looking much more effective than the all proto shield fits. At this time.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5135	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:55:00 - [614] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: I think that the 'fitting all proto' balance is one way to look at it, the more important point should be that the all proto armor fits are looking much more effective than the all proto shield fits. At this time. At the same time you also don't want the PG/CPU modules to feel completely pointless because the base fitting gives you everything you could ever want, you know? It's a weird balance. Heres just a random thought....what if the natural regen of the Gunnlogi was dropped down, the option to fit a recharger to boost the passive regen up was introduced, and shield boosters were a bit easier to fit but more importantly cooled down far more quickly so they could be activated on a more regular basis. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17425	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:55:00 - [615] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: Yeah I can fit the armor tank proto hardener proto plate proto reps proto reps nitro scanner the shield tank would only be able to fit all proto if the cpu/pg nerf is scrapped or better yet, cpu pg is buffed. are the proto tanks rail fitting proposed bonus applied in proto fits? Not that it would give you much.. should almost apply to all turrets. Well if you're leaving slots empty, sure that'll obviously free up resources. But it's very difficult to fit full proto defenses on an armor HAV and still fill all of its slots. If a shield tank wants to leave its lows empty to fit full proto, that seems reasonable as well. Honestly I've always seen the use of CPU/PG enhancers (at least on dropsuits) as a "wasted" fit and really only use them if I'm doing something very specific/weird with the fit. I think an asset should be able to be fit properly without PG/CPU extenders. Now regardless of what defines "proper fit" it needs to be fair for all vehicles within the class. So you're right, if the Madrugar can fit full proto by leaving some slots empty, it seems reasonable that the Gunnlogi should be able to do the same. One thing you do need to look out for is the fact that main defense modules will almost always cost a lot more than a utility module, so the tradeoff can't always been seen as entirely equivalent. I think that the 'fitting all proto' balance is one way to look at it, the more important point should be that the all proto armor fits are looking much more effective than the all proto shield fits. At this time. I don't know if I agree with that but hopefully we'll see on the shield better than armour fits...... "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5135	Posted - 2015.03.03 04:05:00 - [616] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Blegh You didn't like what you said? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 17426	Posted - 2015.03.03 05:15:00 - [617] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Blegh You didn't like what you said? I didn't sounded stupid even for me so I hid the post behind Blegh. "This is the Usumgal boy, the exalted dragon, wreathed in the fires of heaven. He is a true symbol of God's majesty."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5138	Posted - 2015.03.03 05:22:00 - [618] - Quote I didn't think it was that bad but ok "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4073	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:19:00 - [619] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I never said that the two extra turrets is worthwhile. But some people want the option. I could care less if a tank had one person or ten. Well you would because if that tank had 10people in it you would need 10people with AV to kill it. I could cheerfully shoot at something like that all DAY. But you would not. You are already complaining about getting 3 AV to combat a 3man HAV.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7446	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:31:00 - [620] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I never said that the two extra turrets is worthwhile. But some people want the option. I could care less if a tank had one person or ten. Well you would because if that tank had 10people in it you would need 10people with AV to kill it. I could cheerfully shoot at something like that all DAY. But you would not. You are already complaining about getting 3 AV to combat a 3man HAV. HAV doesn't take 3-10 people to run at peak power, does it? It only takes one and has only ever taken one. The secondary gunners have only ever been tagalongs at best. Nice attemt at twisting my words. You're better at it thaN the usual suspects. AV

Doc DDD TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 374	Posted - 2015.03.03 13:32:00 - [621] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Doc DDD wrote: I think that the 'fitting all proto' balance is one way to look at it, the more important point should be that the all proto armor fits are looking much more effective than the all proto shield fits. At this time. At the same time you also don't want the PG/CPU modules to feel completely pointless because the base fitting gives you everything you could ever want, you know? It's a weird balance. Heres just a random thought....what if the natural regen of the Gunnlogi was dropped down, the option to fit a recharger to boost the passive regen up was introduced, and shield boosters were a bit easier to fit but more importantly cooled down far more quickly so they could be activated on a more regular basis. EDIT: Hell I'd even throw in you might keep the recharge delay penalty on the shield extenders but give a slight recharge rate bonus as well....though a recharger module would be a significantly higher increase to rate. Cpu/pg fitting optimization shouldn't be pointless to skill into on turrets either.. they are very sp expensive for little return. The problem Rattati is having is trying to make a Militia tank with 2 chips balanced against a tank with 50 million sp invested, when you can get some pretty crazy fits on these militia tanks thanks to bad game design. It's why teiricide doesn't work when you have TWO CHIPS THAT BYPASS THE WHOLE POINTS OF TEIRICIDE. Especially on a vehicle that has 2 pointless low slots, that you either stick armor plates or mod chips in. Would make more sense to have PROTO hull cpu and pg levels significantly higher so you don't need a chip and can put a recharger in your low. As I've said before, reducing natural regen shouldn't happen until a recharger is introduced forthe low slots that is not cpu/pg hungry, and increases recharge rate significantly- ie over 200 hps - due to the delay penalty. Shield boosters would also have to be worth fitting - ie far less pg, larger boost over longer time (complex large 2500 shields over 5 seconds) then the cooldown can remain as long as it is.. right now its better just to fit an extender or light booster. Also hardeners should stack with appropriate penalties.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4073	Posted - 2015.03.03 14:06:00 - [622] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I never said that the two extra turrets is worthwhile. But some people want the option. I could care less if a tank had one person or ten. Well you would because if that tank had 10people in it you would need 10people with AV to kill it. I could cheerfully shoot at something like that all DAY. But you would not. You are already complaining about getting 3 AV to combat a 3man HAV. HAV doesn't take 3-10 people to run at peak power, does it? It only takes one and has only ever taken one. The secondary gunners have only ever been tagalongs at best. Nice attemt at twisting my words. You're better at it thaN the usual suspects. But i keep getting the same old thing from AV which is 1 person to combat 1 person and unfortuantly for you 3 people in a HAV is still 3 people and the ratio of 1 AV to 3 in a HAV is unfair which ever way you look at it. If it was 3 AV to combat 1 person in a HAV you are quick to scream and cry about it but when it is the otherway around we hear nothing and that is double standards. Fair is fair and you have to stand by your words, you don't want it to be fair you want it to be able to solo all vehicles no matter what.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7453	Posted - 2015.03.03 15:28:00 - [623] - Quote Takahiro let me summarize every argument you and spkr have made. "Golly, I can't wait for fragmented missiles so I can efficiently kill some infantry" Rather frequently combined with "It is inherently unfair that infantry AV can 1v1 tanks." Translation: "Y'all crops are gettin' awfully uppity about this here harvest day thing." You want the ability to slaughter infantry with efficiency, but do not want said victims to be able to fight back with any semblance of efficiency. you argue that three bpdies in a tank, two of which provide another 100-150% effective firepower should allow you to be invulnerable to anything but three AV when the defensive capacity of the HAV DOES NOT CHANGE. You are also both historically the loudest haters of people defiling your tanks by climbing aboard, have flat out said that unless you have twice and more the EHP of a main battle tank in a marauder that it is pointless to use, at that point are you ever, at all interested in anything resembling balance? Every argument the two of you have made is in summation when looked at as a whole: I want tanks to be invulnerable EZ Mode. You want the ability to kill and destroy everything on field. But if the crops you're farming are able to kill back it's unfair. So tell me, oh wise one. Exactly when does anything resembling "balance" come into play? Because from closed beta to today, every single post from Red Star on the topic of AV/V and vehicle balance has been "I pay ISK, and in return I expect to be immune to retaliation." AV
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4079	Posted - 2015.03.03 16:10:00 - [624] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Takahiro let me summarize every argument you and spkr have made. "Golly, I can't wait for fragmented missiles so I can efficiently kill some infantry" Rather frequently combined with "It is inherently unfair that infantry AV can 1v1 tanks." Translation: "Y'all crops are gettin' awfully uppity about this here harvest day thing." You want the ability to slaughter infantry with efficiency, but do not want said victims to be able to fight back with any semblance of efficiency. you argue that three bpdies in a tank, two of which provide another 100-150% effective firepower should allow you to be invulnerable to anything but three AV when the defensive capacity of the HAV DOES NOT CHANGE. You are also both historically the loudest haters of people defiling your tanks by climbing aboard, have flat out said that unless you have twice and more the EHP of a main battle tank in a marauder that it is pointless to use, at that point are you ever, at all interested in anything resembling balance? Every argument the two of you have made is in summation when looked at as a whole: I want tanks to be invulnerable EZ Mode. You want the ability to kill and destroy everything on field. But if the crops you're farming are able to kill back it's unfair. So tell me, oh wise one. Exactly when does anything resembling "balance" come into play? Because from closed beta to today, every single post from Red Star on the topic of AV/V and vehicle balance has been "I pay ISK, and in return I expect to be immune to retaliation." I used to be able to kill infantry with missiles - it got nerfed I used to be able to kill infantry with blaster - it got nerfed I used to be able to kill infantry and vehicles with an ADS - it got nerfed Fragmented missiles havn't been in the game for years now, but if they make a return and actually kill infantry and also kill AV players before they can dent us the tears will form and be flowing again on the forums and eventually in the cycle on nerfs and more nerfs for vehicles it will get nerfed. No matter what happens if a vehicle is performing like it should be doing it eventually gets nerfed and AV buffed in comparision. Even when the blasters were killing players AV still had the ability to solo HAVs but yet that was unfair so blasters got nerfed but AV stayed the same and actually got buffed afterwards so they can solo vehicles even more. The problem is with players like you is that you don't want vehicles to have a place, you are upset if it takes 3 AV to 1 HAV like in chrome while the vehicles deck each other, you get upset again when you think it is unfair that it should take 3 AV to combat 3 in a HAV but are perfectly fine with it being 3 in a HAV to 1 AV. This is your ratio you stand by, 1player against 1player 1:1 but you only use that argument when it suits you and if anyone points out the obvious you put your fingers in your ears. You don't want vehicles to combat vehicles like what used to happen, you want to be that solo AV player killing everything in a clip in 5seconds, you want vehicles to be WP pinatas something that can be brushed off and currently you have that yet you still are not happy. You are afraid that vehicles may have a purpose in the game and could with the correct fit brush you off like a fly and could change the game or actually be used to do something. You say i want invincible tanks just so i can farm infantry, but i don't have any turrets left which can farm infantry because they have been removed/nerfed or are outright useless and it is pointless in being invicible to other vehicles because then no fun would be had battling enemy vehicles. I say i want useful vehicles which can last more than a few seconds out of the redline but that is not happening either and AV are up in arms as it is because being able to solo a vehicle in a clip apparently isn't quick enough. Also i speak for myself not R* so go cry about that to someone else since that has nothing to do with it child.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7455	Posted - 2015.03.03 16:39:00 - [625] - Quote Yet more of the same. Just because you claim not to speak for R* the message doesn't change. It's also amazing, your theories on my motivation. My assertions are based on what you have said. Your counterarguments on my intent have nothing to do with anything I have said or presented your arguments are entirely based on what you assume I mean when I have been pretty direct in my intent. You have been remarkably adept at playing coy by comparison. Your stated playstyle preference seems, based on your comments and your direct statements involves an automatic win. With no recourse for a majority of the playerbase. not one thing you have said has been based on any numbers, no evidence. Just assertions of intent and twisting the words of people who disagree. As long as you campaign for tanks to be a win button that can't be fought by the majority of the playerbase, then the playerbase will campaign to keep your playstyle nerfed into the ground. And thus far you, spkr and docDDD (Hi Ripper!) Are the only people in the last four months besides lazer got banned who assert that I'm being unreasonable. AV
LudiKure ninda Dead Man's Game RUST415 203	Posted - 2015.03.03 16:40:00 - [626] - Quote Solution is simple,.. If you dont drive tanks or ADS you can fck off from this thread. Vehicles hawe been useles 4 over a year now. Anything that was good CCP nerfed chause of the COD fanboys And no solo swarmer should not be able to kill my tank in 1 clip,..my blaster turent is to supress infantry,as rattati said,so that min comando should be able to SUPRESS me,not kill me (only if im dumb enough to stay there and not to run away after he reloads) Or yust bring back old blaster disper. so I can kill that swarmer 5 meters in front of me,dancing and bunny hoping PS and yeah swarms on min comando are OP as hell!! ( -í° -£-û -í°) `SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED`
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7455	Posted - 2015.03.03 16:44:00 - [627] - Quote LudiKure ninda wrote: Solution is simple,.. If you dont drive tanks or ADS you can fck off from this thread. Never gonna happen. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3029	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:25:00 - [628] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: LudiKure ninda wrote: Solution is simple,.. If you dont drive tanks or ADS you can fck off from this thread. Never gonna happen. Of course it won't happen, because despite you not using vehicles, you still believe with absolute conviction that you know what's best for vehicles, and not those that actually use them, and use them often. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7461	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:31:00 - [629] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: LudiKure ninda wrote: Solution is simple,.. If you dont drive tanks or ADS you can fck off from this thread. Never gonna happen. Of course it won't happen, because despite you not using vehicles, you still believe with absolute conviction that you know what's best for vehicles, and not those that actually use them, and use them often. I am, however, concerned with the overall balance of how they interact with everything ELSE, something which you are contemptuous at best towards so far as concerns go. You have no interest in vehicles being anything but better on all levels than literally any other thing at everything. So of coure I will appear to be hostile and hateful by your perspective. You're hostile and hateful towards everyone else. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3029	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:38:00 - [630] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: LudiKure ninda wrote: Solution is simple,.. If you dont drive tanks or ADS you can fck off from this thread. Never gonna happen. Of course it won't happen, because despite you not using vehicles, you still believe with absolute conviction that you know what's best for vehicles, and not those that actually use them, and use them often. I am, however, concerned with the overall balance of how they interact with everything ELSE, something which you are contemptuous at best towards so far as concerns go. You have no interest in vehicles being anything but better on all levels than literally any other thing at everything. So of coure I will appear to be hostile and hateful by your perspective. You're hostile and hateful towards everyone else. It's a vehicle weighing far more than a person in battle armor, with far better defenses, but sadly less damage output. Of course they should be better than a person in a battle suit. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff



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