Scrambler lance is kinda like the laser rifle WITHOUT the overheat for more damage mechanic. There's no reality in which that won't be broken and in dire need of an instant nerf. When it overheats it doesn't seize, it just does 100-150 damage per second to the firer.

the arc cannon is a charged weapon, you charge the laser and it erupts a 1-second beam of energy that you must hold on the target. when it ends it charges and releases again, and it doesn't overheat (a nod to the amarr commando, who needs something to not suck with).

DHAVs are supposed to be glass cannons, so yes. I'm also of the opinion that said glass cannons should be cheaper than MBT and UHAVs because of their intended fragility to offset the odds of me telling it to stay OFF MY UHAV killing YOUR boys.

Multiman HAVs have a place, and that place is situational. I think True has the right idea that there should be an option. Party tanks are useful for delivering people directly to open-ground hack points while providing counterfire vs. AV. Do I think they're a "everyone get in and stay in?" Not by a long shot. I believe that True shares my opinion that the SHAV is a bandaid placed on a wound. No PC crew is going to actually have some dipwad loiter in a small turret when he needs to be DOING things. So it's less of a concern given that barring the smalls, both types of tank are limited to more or less identical fits.

So it's a yes and no. situationally they are useful. As a general suppression tool, we're going to need to see how the UHAVs play out before calling out fail points. The UHAV will be the useful three-seater if anything.

I solo the current generation of sicas and gunnlogis, which are arguably (Depends on who's arguing) OP. The only real efficient defense is pinpoint accuracy with a rail (don't laugh, I've been jacked up by some absolutely lethal gunners with rails today) and jumping out of the tank with an HMG or a shotgun which is arguably the most cheeseass thing this side of the JLAV, which I only use when someone who I know will get buttmad and post about it here is on the enemy team.

Ammar tank turrent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RMZQnWJUSw

Anyways, I always feel like a douche when I get out and gun down that AV. Fun yes, but it's just not right.

On a more constructive note, before we pass judgement on the DHAV/UHAV let's see how it plays. Rattati said outright that he wants to put in a module to improve blaster dispersion for the UHAV that MBTs can use as well. Well maybe MBTs I can't recall that.

I'm actually an advocate of making heavy turrets kill infantry a bit better than what we have now. What we have now pains me.

Tebu been using 3 man HAV's since the competitive days of FW where it was 16 corpmates vs the 8-10 guys PIE could field. It is inordinately successful with good co-ordination.

I don't pretend to know about PC but with two good infantrymen we're more than enough to hold two separate external objectives on almost any map in the game.

[quote=True Adamance]
I mean I know FW can be competitive, but there is nothing like a 16 vs 16 fully prepped and ALWAYS proto team.

It was like that at one point. But just like your PC crowd you kinda had to have been there and if you didn't bring your proto you'd get face rolled and fleet fights would happen in the air above out matches.

No doubt, but 3 man tanks just aren't viable options in every PC.

You buff AV then you kill the LAV
You buff AV you kill the DS
You buff AV you kill the ADS
You buff AV you kill the DHAV

Any which way you buff AV you kill something else and completely take it off the field and out of the game.

Simple solution - HAVs take out HAVs and AV does secondary damage because ADS/DS/LAV cannot survive now so it means any new LAV/DS like Logi then its already made useless before it gets out the door.

AV cannot be the end all solution, AV is there for when you do not have vehicle support but right now it is there no matter what and is the end all solution. If it gets buffed it kills everything, if it gets nerfed then it may require more than 1 AV person but the 3man HAV getting destroyed by 1 AV is unfair but having AV making every other vehicle useless is just as bad.

fairly bold statements there bunky. Historically statements like this have been proven false repeatedly.

if AV isn't to be buffed in response to the new HAVs then we should just leave HAVs as they are now.

compromise: when nobody leaves happy.

But no. You dont get improved tanks and demand that AV be marginalized to worthlessness. That's not a solution.

Plus LAVs are too durable anyway. A militia trash LAV takes multiple shots from proto antitank guns to kill even if no modules are loaded.

Kill LAVs my ass.

You're reaching pretty hard asserting dropships even.

Try again.

fairly bold statements there bunky. Historically statements like this have been proven false repeatedly.

if AV isn't to be buffed in response to the new HAVs then we should just leave HAVs as they are now.

compromise: when nobody leaves happy.

But no. You dont get improved tanks and demand that AV be marginalized to worthlessness. That's not a solution.

Plus LAVs are too durable anyway. A militia trash LAV takes multiple shots from proto antitank guns to kill even if no modules are loaded.

Kill LAVs my ass.

You're reaching pretty hard asserting dropships even.

Try again.

Everything you just posted is opinion.

And bluntly I'm not interested in taking Red star opinions seriously when all you guys do is repeat spkr4thedead's usual not-points.

And in what deluded post has anyone in any of the latest HAV threads seriously suggested buffing swarms? My count is at zero. So why are you using swarms as your be-all end-all example?

HAV are beaten back to the redline more now than in uprising.

Not really when rattati is seriously thinking about limiting the hardener to 1 and nerfing PG/CPU modules or creating various fits on protofits.

Im right when i talk about SL in uprising and now, im right on the new advanced/prototype HAVs which are just in name and not nature because of no slot increase, im right about the ADS unable to dodge SL.

I play the game every day and i see what happens to my vehicles and how a SL pushes me off easily or i can dual a FG because they have a chance to miss. I have FG and SL to proto and prof 5, i have used them and i know the downsides and upsides of both.

Opinions come from playing the game and just being a spreadsheet warrior doesn't cut it because the spreadsheet pits whatever it is on an empty field with no cover, no moving, no tactics, no variables whatsoever so it produces a false outcome.

Unfortuanly not many use FG, the majority is AV and last i checked the SL is AV, the FG is generally fine, the PLC is not but buffing any AV can defo kill the rest of the vehicles.

But you may say ' I'm not interested in taking Red star opinions seriously when all you guys do is repeat spkr4thedead's usual not-points.' so then why should i take your points seriously or anyone from your corp seriously? should i tie you all with the same brush? why should CCP take you seriously? Should anyone take your opinion seriously?

TBH with your latest post it reeks of 'im not listening to you la la la la la la' which frankly is childish and not in any way helpful.

I annihilated a Soma in 4 volleys with swarms on a Minmando a few days ago. That is unacceptable. The power of swarms is akin to dropping an asteroid on a vehicle.

Everything you just posted is opinion.

And bluntly I'm not interested in taking Red star opinions seriously when all you guys do is repeat spkr4thedead's usual not-points.

And in what deluded post has anyone in any of the latest HAV threads seriously suggested buffing swarms? My count is at zero. So why are you using swarms as your be-all end-all example?

And you've never seriously entertained nor considered any counterpoint in any post so I'm not exactly inclined to listen to someone who simply dismisses me as a "spreadsheet warrior" or as someone who "Doesn't play the game.

I say again: No one has ever suggested buffing swarms. Quite the opposite in fact.

Why are you using them as your justification for saying AV should never be buffed?

Hah, ok.

And just yesterday evening I sat there and ate swarms and shrugged them on like they were nothing in my gunnlogi. See I made swarms look and feel underpowered.

So from that I MUST conclude that swarms need a buff.

See what I did there?

Shield vs. armor. You'd point is invalid. They were probably MLT swarms. I was using a level 5 Minmando with PRO swarms.

Your point is invalid.

And you've never seriously entertained nor considered any counterpoint in any post so I'm not exactly inclined to listen to someone who simply dismisses me as a "spreadsheet warrior" or as someone who "Doesn't play the game.

I say again: No one has ever suggested buffing swarms. Quite the opposite in fact.

Why are you using them as your justification for saying AV should never be buffed?

Not really when rattati is seriously thinking about limiting the hardener to 1 and nerfing PG/CPU modules or creating various fits on protofits.

Im right when i talk about SL in uprising and now, im right on the new advanced/prototype HAVs which are just in name and not nature because of no slot increase, im right about the ADS unable to dodge SL.

Unfortuanly not many use FG, the majority is AV and last i checked the SL is AV, the FG is generally fine, the PLC is not but buffing any AV can defo kill the rest of the vehicles.

I play the game every day and i see what happens to my vehicles and how a SL pushes me off easily or i can dual a FG because they have a chance to miss. I have FG and SL to proto and prof 5, i have used them and i know the downsides and upsides of both.

Opinions come from playing the game and just being a spreadsheet warrior doesn't cut it because the spreadsheet pits whatever it is on an empty field with no cover, no moving, no tactics, no variables whatsoever so it produces a false outcome.

As is yours. That was kinda the point.

And you just admitted to it.

But seriously, what is wrong with you guys. Seriously, swarms OP? If anything it shows a disparity with armor which IS acknowledge and IS being addressed.

I mean google "reasonable" and then try being it for a change. Screaming that you are right and everyone else is wrong just makes you look stupid and uneducated. I

Again, destroying a tank in 4 volleys is overkill.

You had shield, I vaporized an armor with a weapon that has a bonus against armor, along with a flat 10% damage bonus.